Johnnie Cochran resumed direct examination of Ellen Aaronson, a woman who was dining at Mezzaluna on the night of June 12, 1994 with Danny Mandel. She described her contacts with LAPD Detective Kilcoyne, confirmed the Mezzaluna restaurant's clock was one hour slow (making the receipt time 9:55, not 8:55), and testified that she saw and heard nothing unusual on Bundy Drive during their walk home — consistent with the defense's timeline argument that the murders occurred later than the prosecution claimed.
# 1 THE COURT: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Please be seated. Let the record reflect we've been rejoined by all the members of our jury panel. Miss Aaronson, would you resume the witness stand, please.
Ellen Aaronson, the witness on the stand at the time of the lunch recess, resumed the stand and testified further as follows:
# 2 THE COURT: All right. Would you pull the microphone close to you, please. All right. Good afternoon again, Miss Aaronson.
# 3 MS. AARONSON: Good afternoon.
# 4 THE COURT: You are reminded you are still under oath. And, Mr. Cochran, you may resume.
# 5 MR. COCHRAN: Thank you very kindly, your Honor. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.
THE JURY: Good afternoon.
DIRECT EXAMINATION (RESUMED) BY MR. COCHRAN
# 6 MR. COCHRAN: Miss Aaronson, I probably neglected to ask you this morning, have you had any college training for your work?
# 8 MR. COCHRAN: And what college did you attend?
# 9 MS. AARONSON: I went to New York University, Tish School of the Arts.
# 10 MR. COCHRAN: Did you graduate from that--
# 11 MS. AARONSON: I graduated, yes, in 1989.
# 12 THE COURT: Miss Aaronson, you're going to have to let Mr. Cochran finish asking the question before you start your answer.
# 13 MS. AARONSON: Sorry.
# 15 MR. COCHRAN: Thank you, your Honor.
# 16 MR. COCHRAN: Now, just before we broke for lunch, I asked you whether or not you had called the Los Angeles Police Department to share with them any information that you thought you had in connection with this case. Do you recall that?
# 18 MR. COCHRAN: Do you remember approximately on what date you called the Los Angeles Police Department?
# 19 MS. AARONSON: On Tuesday, June 14th.
# 20 MR. COCHRAN: Tuesday, June--
# 22 MR. COCHRAN: June 14th? And this would have been two days after that Sunday night; is that correct?
# 23 MS. AARONSON: Correct.
# 24 MR. COCHRAN: And do you remember the name of the police officer that you first spoke with at that time?
# 25 MS. AARONSON: If you told me the name, I would remember it.
# 26 MR. COCHRAN: All right. Would the name Kilcoyne, K-I-L-C-O-Y-N-E, refresh your recollection at all?
# 27 MS. AARONSON: Correct.
# 28 MR. COCHRAN: All right. Dennis Kilcoyne I believe?
# 30 MR. COCHRAN: All right. And you just called into the police department and you spoke to a particular officer; is that correct?
# 31 MS. AARONSON: I was transferred to that particular officer.
# 32 MR. COCHRAN: All right. You didn't know him before this time?
# 34 MR. COCHRAN: All right. The first time that you called and spoke to this Officer Kilcoyne, did you tell him--well, did you know about or were you sure about the various times of everything that took place?
# 35 MS. AARONSON: No, I wasn't sure about the times.
# 36 MR. COCHRAN: What did you tell him about the time and what you needed to do, if anything?
# 37 MS. AARONSON: I told him that I needed to confirm with my roommates, I needed to reconfirm with Mezzaluna with the manager about specific times in regards to the bill and I needed to confirm some other times with my roommates.
# 38 MR. COCHRAN: All right. So when you first called him--why were you calling the police department at that point?
# 39 MS. AARONSON: At that point, I paid attention to the news reports, and the reports said things that were different to my memory. I thought it was something I was supposed to do, so I called the police department.
KEY QUOTE # 40 MR. COCHRAN: All right. So you made that call. And so you had the initial conversation with Detective Kilcoyne and you told him you had to do some checking about specific times and you had to check with certain people?
# 41 MS. AARONSON: Correct.
# 42 MR. COCHRAN: All right. After you had this--you didn't talk to him face-to-face at that time, did you?
# 44 MR. COCHRAN: This was a phone conversation?
# 46 MR. COCHRAN: Okay. After you had the initial conversation, which you believe was on June 14th with Detective Kilcoyne, did you have occasion to check any of these things out regarding the times that evening?
# 47 MS. AARONSON: Immediately after I spoke with him.
# 48 MR. COCHRAN: All right. Tell the Court and jury what you did at that time, ma'am.
# 49 MS. AARONSON: I put another phone call into Mezzaluna when I was told the manager was going to return.
# 50 MR. COCHRAN: All right.
# 51 MS. AARONSON: I spoke with the manager at the time, asked him if the clock on the receipt where your credit card goes through, if it was off by an hour. He confirmed that it was off. That was the second time I was confirming with Mezzaluna. I also finally got in touch with my roommate, Jean Novack, to confirm and ask her what time she came home.
# 52 MR. COCHRAN: All right. And you told us in your testimony this morning that the best of your recollection, Miss Novack came home at about 10:45 on the evening of June 12th; is that right?
# 53 MS. AARONSON: Correct.
# 54 MR. COCHRAN: You confirmed that?
# 56 MR. COCHRAN: What else, if anything, did you do after this initial conversation to Kilcoyne, if you recall? Did you talk at all with Danny Mandel?
# 57 MS. AARONSON: I spoke with him before I spoke with Kilcoyne.
# 58 MR. COCHRAN: All right.
# 59 MS. AARONSON: I didn't speak with him afterwards.
# 60 MR. COCHRAN: All right. And after you did these things that you just described for us, did you have a better idea of the times involved on that particular night?
# 61 MS. AARONSON: A much better idea.
# 62 MR. COCHRAN: And did you have occasion to have a second conversation at some point with Detective Kilcoyne?
# 63 MS. AARONSON: Yes. He called me back a number--a few weeks later.
# 64 MR. COCHRAN: All right. And have you seen a copy of that particular report, statement form?
# 65 MS. AARONSON: Yes. Yes, I have.
# 66 MR. COCHRAN: And that was, again, a telephonic interview?
# 67 MS. AARONSON: Yes, it was.
# 68 MR. COCHRAN: Now, the date and time of that interview was not July 3rd, 1967, was it?
# 70 MS. CLARK: Objection. This is leading.
# 71 THE COURT: Overruled.
# 72 MR. COCHRAN: I'm asking that question.
# 73 MR. COCHRAN: The interview wasn't on July 3rd, 1967, was it?
# 74 MS. AARONSON: No, it wasn't.
# 75 MR. COCHRAN: What's that day?
# 76 MS. AARONSON: My birthday.
# 77 MR. COCHRAN: So he didn't talk to you on that day, did he?
# 78 MS. AARONSON: No, he didn't.
# 79 MR. COCHRAN: But, at any rate, did he then take some additional facts down from you at some point after the initial interview?
# 80 MS. AARONSON: Yes, he did.
# 81 MR. COCHRAN: And was that--what date was that on, if you know?
# 82 MS. AARONSON: It was the Friday of the last--last day of the hearing, of the preliminary hearing.
# 83 MR. COCHRAN: All right. Something like the date of July 8th ring a bell?
# 84 MS. AARONSON: July 8th.
# 85 MR. COCHRAN: Okay. So how did you talk to him on that occasion?
# 86 MS. AARONSON: I came home after the preliminary hearing, and he called me.
# 87 MR. COCHRAN: You had been down here to testify?
# 89 MR. COCHRAN: Were you ever called as a witness?
# 90 MS. AARONSON: Yes, I was.
# 91 MR. COCHRAN: Okay. And who asked you questions at that time?
# 92 MS. AARONSON: Nobody did. I wasn't called in.
# 93 MR. COCHRAN: All right. You were never called as a witness?
# 94 MS. AARONSON: I was subpoenaed as a witness.
# 96 MS. AARONSON: I was asked to leave. I was told to leave. They didn't--decided not to call me.
# 97 MR. COCHRAN: And you had been down in this building and then you waited for a while and you were sent back home?
# 98 MS. AARONSON: Correct.
# 99 MR. COCHRAN: And you never testified at that hearing, did you?
# 100 MS. AARONSON: I never testified at that hearing.
# 101 MR. COCHRAN: Did you ever see Miss Clark while you were down here that day?
# 102 MS. AARONSON: Maybe just pass--I don't have a recollection, no.
# 103 MR. COCHRAN: But it was after you left court or left this building that day, went back home, then you had this other conversation with Detective Kilcoyne; is that correct?
# 104 MS. AARONSON: A number of hours afterwards, but yes.
# 105 MR. COCHRAN: And was that then a reinterview by Kilcoyne?
# 106 MS. AARONSON: Correct.
# 107 MR. COCHRAN: And that was over the phone?
# 109 MR. COCHRAN: And at that time, did you spell out to him the times involved in this case?
# 110 MS. AARONSON: Yes, I did.
# 111 MR. COCHRAN: Did you share with him the time that the--you had gotten the receipt from the bill at Mezzaluna?
# 112 MS. AARONSON: I shared with him the time, correct.
# 113 MR. COCHRAN: And what time did you share with him?
# 114 MS. AARONSON: I shared with him that the time on the receipt was an hour off and I confirmed it with Mezzaluna.
# 115 MR. COCHRAN: All right. And so what time was on the receipt?
# 116 MS. AARONSON: 8:55.
# 117 MR. COCHRAN: And what time was it actually?
# 118 MS. AARONSON: 9:55.
# 119 MR. COCHRAN: All right. You told Detective Kilcoyne that, did you?
# 121 MR. COCHRAN: All right. And then did you talk to him about the route that you took--strike that. Before you talk about the route, did you tell Detective Kilcoyne whether or not at any time while still at Mezzaluna, you had occasion to look at your wristwatch?
# 122 MS. AARONSON: Yes, I did.
# 123 MR. COCHRAN: And do you recall that now, looking at your wristwatch?
# 125 MR. COCHRAN: And when you looked at your watch, what time was it at that time?
# 126 MS. AARONSON: It was 10 to 10:00.
# 127 MR. COCHRAN: All right. And you determined that also?
# 128 MS. AARONSON: I determined that, correct.
# 129 MR. COCHRAN: Okay. And at about that time, the 10 to 10:00 time, so we're clear in perspective, what was happening at that restaurant at that time?
# 130 MS. AARONSON: The waitress came up to us and asked us to pay our bill and gave us a bill.
# 131 MR. COCHRAN: Okay. That was before you got the bill?
# 132 MS. AARONSON: Yes. She wanted to--
# 133 MR. COCHRAN: So then as you told us, then you talked for 10 or 15 minutes after you got the bill back, et cetera?
# 134 MS. AARONSON: Correct.
# 135 MR. COCHRAN: Okay. Now, did you tell Detective Kilcoyne about that?
# 136 MS. AARONSON: Yes, I did.
# 137 MR. COCHRAN: And did you explain to him the various things that happened?
# 138 MS. AARONSON: Correct.
# 139 MR. COCHRAN: And did you share with Detective Kilcoyne on this July 8th conversation that you also talked with your--
# 140 MS. CLARK: Objection. Leading.
# 141 THE COURT: Sustained.
# 142 MR. COCHRAN: Well, all right.
# 143 MR. COCHRAN: In the course of this second conversation with Detective Kilcoyne, did the subject matter of your roommate, Jean Novack, come up?
# 144 MS. AARONSON: Yes, it did.
# 145 MR. COCHRAN: All right. And what did you tell him about gene Novack?
# 146 MS. AARONSON: I told him that I spoke--
# 147 MS. CLARK: Objection. Hearsay.
# 148 THE COURT: Sustained.
# 149 MR. COCHRAN: She can't tell us what she said, but she can say what she said.
# 150 THE COURT: Sustained. Still an out of court statement, counsel.
# 151 MR. COCHRAN: All right. Did the subject matter of Jean Novack and the time of her arrival come up in this conversation; yes or no?
# 152 MS. AARONSON: Yes, it did.
# 153 MR. COCHRAN: And did you share with him a time?
# 154 MS. AARONSON: Yes, I did.
# 155 MR. COCHRAN: That was in this July 8th conversation?
# 156 MS. AARONSON: Correct.
# 157 MR. COCHRAN: Did you tell him that you didn't have any alcohol that day at all?
# 158 MS. CLARK: Objection. Hearsay.
# 159 THE COURT: Overruled.
# 160 MR. COCHRAN: Did you tell him you had no alcohol to drink that evening?
# 161 MS. AARONSON: Yes, I did tell him that.
# 162 MR. COCHRAN: Now--and in the course of that, did you also describe to him the route you took home?
# 163 MS. AARONSON: Yes, I did.
# 164 MR. COCHRAN: All right. And is that the same thing you told us here in court?
# 165 MS. AARONSON: Yes, it is.
# 166 MR. COCHRAN: Now, with regard to that route by the way, when you were walking home from the Mezzaluna restaurant, do you recall as you proceeded down Gorham Street toward Bundy, do you recall passing any other people at that point on the street?
# 167 MS. AARONSON: I recall passing no one.
# 168 MR. COCHRAN: All right. When you got to Bundy and you turned left on Bundy to head toward Darlington, do you recall seeing anyone else on the street?
# 169 MS. AARONSON: I recall seeing no one.
# 170 MR. COCHRAN: As you got to Darlington, do you recall encountering at some point someone walking a dog?
# 172 MS. CLARK: Objection. Leading.
# 173 THE COURT: Sustained. Answer is stricken.
# 174 MR. COCHRAN: Do you recall at some point when you got to Darlington seeing anything unusual?
# 175 MS. AARONSON: I didn't see anything unusual. I saw people, a couple walking their dog.
# 176 MR. COCHRAN: All right. And where was that?
# 177 MS. AARONSON: It was on Darlington.
# 178 MR. COCHRAN: And can you point for us on the diagram there, I think People's 26, approximately where it was that you saw this couple walking this dog?
# 179 MS. AARONSON: Approximately before we stopped to look--for Danny to look at his watch. I can't say exactly where (Indicating).
# 180 MR. COCHRAN: All right.
# 181 MR. COCHRAN: This is an area on Darlington just up from Bundy, your Honor, an area she's previously mentioned where Mr. Mandel I believe looked at his watch.
# 182 THE COURT: In the area of the alley there. Yes.
# 183 MR. COCHRAN: There in the street, yes. Think so.
# 184 MR. COCHRAN: Now, is that--did you see any other people walking any dogs on that particular night?
# 186 MR. COCHRAN: Could you describe for the jury that dog that particular evening, how the dog appeared?
# 187 MS. AARONSON: Medium size, short-haired dog.
# 188 MR. COCHRAN: All right. Had you described that also for the detective when you talked to him, if you recall?
# 189 MS. AARONSON: Yes, I did.
# 190 MR. COCHRAN: Now, with regard to Bundy, when you were walking down Bundy, do you recall whether or not--the state of the traffic at that time? Was there a lot of traffic, not much traffic or what was the condition of traffic on Bundy as you were walking along that particular evening, ma'am?
# 191 MS. AARONSON: There was no traffic. It was a very quiet evening.
KEY QUOTE # 192 MR. COCHRAN: Do you recall whether or not you saw anyone out on the street that particular evening, anybody walking along when you were on Bundy?
# 193 MS. AARONSON: I didn't notice anyone.
# 194 MR. COCHRAN: Now, you had shared with us I think this morning that at some point, you had a conversation with Miss Marcia Clark and Detective Vannatter in this building. Do you recall that?
# 196 MR. COCHRAN: And since the time you testified, have you had occasion to review a report of that particular interview?
# 197 MS. AARONSON: Yes, I have.
# 198 MR. COCHRAN: And did that report refresh your recollection as to the time or the date of that particular interview in this building?
# 199 MS. AARONSON: Yes, it did.
# 200 MR. COCHRAN: And do you recall now when that interview was with Marcia Clark?
# 201 MS. AARONSON: It was in September.
# 202 MR. COCHRAN: Okay. Was that on or about September 12th?
# 203 MS. AARONSON: Correct.
# 204 MR. COCHRAN: About 9:15 in the morning?
# 206 MR. COCHRAN: And in that conversation with Miss Marcia Clark and Detective Vannatter, again, did you lay out for them and tell them as best you could the events of that particular night of June 12th, 1994?
# 207 MS. AARONSON: Yes, I did.
# 208 MR. COCHRAN: And you tried to be as accurate as you could in that regard?
# 209 MS. AARONSON: I tried to be as accurate. Yes.
# 210 MR. COCHRAN: May I have just a second, your Honor?
# 211 THE COURT: Certainly.
# 212 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.) # 213 MR. COCHRAN: Now, after that night, that date with Mr. Mandel, did you ever go out again with him?
# 215 MR. COCHRAN: That was the only date?
# 217 MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, at some point, you talked with me; is that correct?
# 218 MS. AARONSON: Correct.
# 219 MR. COCHRAN: And when was that? About a week or so ago?
# 220 MS. AARONSON: About a week and a half.
# 221 MR. COCHRAN: And where was that conversation?
# 222 MS. AARONSON: That I spoke with you?
# 224 MS. AARONSON: In your office.
# 225 MR. COCHRAN: Was that the first time we ever met?
# 227 MR. COCHRAN: We met one other time?
# 228 MS. AARONSON: Very briefly in passing.
# 229 MR. COCHRAN: Was that somewhere socially or something?
# 231 MR. COCHRAN: Okay. We weren't together?
# 233 MR. COCHRAN: You happened to see me at a place?
# 235 MR. COCHRAN: My wife may be watching.
KEY QUOTE # 236 MR. COCHRAN: You saw me someplace socially?
# 237 MS. AARONSON: I saw you someplace where we were both at, not together.
# 238 MR. COCHRAN: Okay. Separately? I was with my wife, right?
# 239 MS. AARONSON: Yes, you were.
# 240 MR. COCHRAN: Okay. Good.
# 241 MS. CLARK: Objection. Calls for speculation.
# 242 MR. COCHRAN: I'll take the stand. I'll take the stand. I was with my wife. No speculation.
# 243 THE COURT: All right. Thank you. All right. Let's have some order, please.
# 244 MR. COCHRAN: Okay. Thank you.
# 245 MR. COCHRAN: So at that time, we saw--we just spoke to each other; is that right?
# 246 MS. AARONSON: I just introduced myself.
# 247 MR. COCHRAN: And I didn't know who you were, and you introduced yourself?
# 248 MS. AARONSON: Correct.
# 249 MR. COCHRAN: And we had occasion to speak at my office about a week and a half ago you say?
# 250 MS. CLARK: Objection. Leading.
# 251 THE COURT: Sustained.
# 252 MR. COCHRAN: All right. The next time we saw each other was when?
# 253 MS. AARONSON: About a week and a half ago.
# 254 MR. COCHRAN: And that was at my office; is that correct?
# 255 MS. AARONSON: Yes, it was.
# 256 MR. COCHRAN: All right. And prior to your coming here today, you never met Mr. O.J. Simpson, have you?
# 258 MR. COCHRAN: You don't know him?
# 260 MR. COCHRAN: You've come here pursuant to a subpoena to tell the truth to this jury?
# 262 MR. COCHRAN: Did you tell the jury the truth?
# 263 MS. AARONSON: Yes, as best as I know the truth. Absolutely.
KEY QUOTE # 264 MR. COCHRAN: Thank you very kindly.