📄 Direct examination of Gilbert Aguilar — Thursday, August 17, 1995
Address:
C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\AUG\17\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-GILBERT-.DOC
TRIAL
▲ Day 138 of 167

Direct examination of Gilbert Aguilar

Witness: Gilbert Aguilar
Examiner: Johnnie Cochran
Called by: Defense • Date: Thursday, August 17, 1995 • Utterances: 600
Johnnie Cochran called LAPD latent print specialist Gilbert Aguilar to testify about the fingerprint evidence collected from the Bundy crime scene. Aguilar walked the jury through all 17 latent prints lifted on June 13, 1994, establishing that none of them matched OJ Simpson. Nine identifiable prints remain unmatched after comparison against 61 individuals including Simpson, the victims, and everyone logged at the scene.
1 (The following proceedings were held in open court, in the presence of the jury:)
2 THE COURT:

All right. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Please be seated. Let the record reflect that we've been rejoined by all the members of our jury panel. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

THE JURY: Good morning.

3 THE COURT:

All right. Who will be presenting the next Defense witness?

4 MR. COCHRAN:

I will, your Honor.

5 THE COURT:

Mr. Cochran.

6 MR. COCHRAN:

The Defense will next call Mr. Gilbert Aguilar. Mr. Aguilar.

Gilbert Aguilar, called as a witness by the Defendant, was sworn and testified as follows:

7 THE CLERK:

Raise your right hand, please. You do solemnly swear that the testimony you may give in the cause now pending before this court, shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

8 MR. AGUILAR:

I do.

9 THE CLERK:

Please have a seat on the witness stand and state and spell your first and last names for the record.

10 MR. AGUILAR:

Gilbert Aguilar, G-I-L-B-E-R-T A-G-U-I-L-A-R.

11 THE COURT:

Mr. Cochran.

12 MR. COCHRAN:

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

THE JURY: Good morning.

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. COCHRAN

13 MR. COCHRAN:

Good morning, Mr. Aguilar.

14 MR. AGUILAR:

Good morning.

15 MR. COCHRAN:

Sir, what is your occupation?

16 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. I'm a forensic print specialist employed by the Los Angeles Police Department assigned to the Scientific Investigations Division with the latent print section.

17 MR. COCHRAN:

And for how long have you been employed, Mr. Aguilar?

18 MR. AGUILAR:

Employed with the--

19 MR. COCHRAN:

By the Los Angeles Police Department.

20 MR. AGUILAR:

--Los Angeles Police Department for over 17 years.

21 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And how long have you been employed in the latent print section of the LAPD SID lab?

22 MR. AGUILAR:

For over 10 years.

23 MR. COCHRAN:

And during that period of time, can you tell the jury or give the jury an idea of how many latent print crime scenes that you've--investigations that you've been involved in?

24 MR. AGUILAR:

I've been to about or I've been to over 20,000 latent print crime scenes.

25 MR. COCHRAN:

And have you had occasion to conduct a number of latent print comparisons during that time frame?

26 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

27 MR. COCHRAN:

And how many comparisons would you say you've made, an estimate generally?

28 MR. AGUILAR:

Oh, in excess of 150,000.

29 MR. COCHRAN:

Why don't we tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury what a latent print is.

30 MR. AGUILAR:

Sure. A latent print is the reproduction of the friction skin left on an object when you touch it. It's usually invisible and must be made visible or developed using fingerprint powders, chemicals or use the laser. I'm talking about--the friction skin, I'm talking about skin that's found on the fingers, on the palms of your hands. It's also found on your toes and your soles of your feet. It's different than the other skin on your body where it has these ridges or these lines that flow across. Well, the unique thing about these ridges is that they don't just flow from one end to the other. They will flow and they will stop. At the point where they stop, we call those ridge endings. Another thing these ridges will do is, they will flow and they will divide into two ridges. At the point where they divide, we call those bifurcations. Because everybody has these ridge endings and bifurcations throughout their entire friction skin, but it's where they are in relationship to each other that would make a fingerprint unique.

31 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And while we're about it then, tell us the difference between a known and a latent print.

32 MR. AGUILAR:

Well, a known print would also be considered an ink print where you actually have the individual there, you apply ink to the fingertips or to the palms of their hands and you roll their fingerprints on a fingerprint card. You actually have the person there and you're the one who took their fingerprints. A latent print is a print that's found at a crime scene. You don't know whose it is. You develop it, you bring it back and it's unknown until you actually do a comparison to the inked fingerprint.

33 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And how long have you been a latent print comparison expert?

34 MR. AGUILAR:

I've actually been a comparison expert for over six years.

35 MR. COCHRAN:

And have you had occasion to testify within the courts of this county and the federal courts as an expert in this field?

36 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

37 MR. COCHRAN:

And how many times have you testified prior to today?

38 MR. AGUILAR:

Over 400 times.

39 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, would you tell the jury, sir, something about how prints are lifted generally?

40 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. Usually when you go out to a crime scene, you're usually taking fingerprint powders. You have a silver and a black powder depending on what type of surface you're going to use the powders on to look for the print. Usually what you'll do is, you'll apply the powder to the surface using a brush that's similar to an artist paper brush, just brush on the powder. The powder adheres to any moisture that's left behind when you touch an object. The powder forms the print or it develops the print so that you're able to see it. Once you develop this print, the next step would be to lift it off the item. And the way that's done is, you apply a--a tape that is similar to scotch tape, which is a special type of tape for latent prints, you lift the print off the object, you put it on the fingerprint lift card for permanent record.

41 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Now, in connection with this case, the Simpson case, would you tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury what role you played in that regard, sir?

42 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. In this case, I did all of the comparison work. I compared all of the fingerprints that were found at the crime scene to known fingerprints or to inked fingerprint impressions.

43 MR. COCHRAN:

And prior to--so you did the actual comparisons; is that correct?

44 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

45 MR. COCHRAN:

And as I understand it, in order for you to do the comparisons, somebody before you had to lift the prints; is that correct?

46 MR. AGUILAR:

The latent prints, yes.

47 MR. COCHRAN:

The latent prints. And who in this case--can you give us the names of the individuals who lifted the prints in this case?

48 MR. AGUILAR:

Sure. Can I check my records, please?

49 MR. COCHRAN:

Sure. Please do. If you need those to refresh your recollection, that would be fine.

50 (Brief pause.)
51 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. The prints were developed and recovered from the Bundy location by a Miss Claiborne, C-L-A-I-B-O-R-N-E, and also a Miss Braggs, B-R-A-G-G-S, and also a Miss Udeshi, U-D-E-S-H-I, and a Miss Duke, D-U-K-E.

52 MR. COCHRAN:

Very well. Your Honor, I think we have a stipulation regarding this for its foundation.

53 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorney and Defense counsel.)
54 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, may I ask the clerk what the next Defense exhibit is?

55 THE CLERK:

1322.

56 MR. COCHRAN:

13--

57 THE CLERK:

22.

58 (Deft's 1322 for id = fingerprint lifts)
59 MR. COCHRAN:

May I have just one second, your Honor?

60 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)
61 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, we have a couple stipulations which I believe will save a little time, if the Court pleases.

62 THE COURT:

Thank you.

63 MR. COCHRAN:

The first stipulation is, it is hereby stipulated that on June 13th of 1994, technicians from the Scientific Investigation Division of the Los Angeles Police Department, namely, Braggs, Duke, Udeshi, u-d-e-s-h-I, and Claiborne obtained 17 identifiable lifts from the Bundy crime scene, and those latent prints are accurately reflected on Defense exhibit 1322.

64 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorney and Defense counsel.)
65 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Let me change one word, your Honor. Let me go back and restate that briefly. It is hereby stipulated that on June 13th, 1994, technicians from the Scientific Investigation Division of the Los Angeles Police Department, namely, Braggs, Duke, Udeshi and Claiborne obtained 17 latent lifts, latent print lifts from the Bundy crime scene. Those latent prints are accurately reflected in Defense exhibit number 1322. In addition, it's further stipulated that on or about 1:30 P.M. on June 14th, 1994, latent print investigator by the name of finch dusted the Ford Bronco for fingerprints and obtained three identifiable fingerprints from the driver side outside door and that those prints were identified as Mr. Simpson's left index and right middle fingers.

66 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorney and Defense counsel.)
67 MR. COCHRAN:

Mr. Simpson's Ford Bronco. So stipulated, counsel?

68 MS. CLARK:

Yes.

69 THE COURT:

All right. Ladies and gentlemen, if you recollect, a stipulation is an agreement between the parties as to the facts of the case. You are to assume the facts in the stipulation are true for the purposes of this trial. Mr. Cochran.

70 MR. COCHRAN:

Thank you, your Honor. I'd like to approach the witness with 1322 and place it before him. I'm sure he has a copy.

71 MR. COCHRAN:

And I want you to--I'm going to place 1322 before you. It's a document entitled "Los Angeles Police Department Scientific Investigation Division latent print section." Have you ever seen this form before, sir?

72 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

73 MR. COCHRAN:

And would you tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury what that form is?

74 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. This is a homicide investigation report. When somebody goes out to a scene of a homicide and latent prints are recovered, each latent print is listed where the latent print was recovered from in--for each number. For instance, this one had 17. So the first would be 1 of 17, 2 of 17 and so on. And this form that we use just to document where each of the prints, where it came from so we could hand that evidence or hand this form over to the investigating officers.

75 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And so with connection with these 17 prints that were lifted on or about--is that June 13th, 1994?

76 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

77 MR. COCHRAN:

Was there an elimination attempted regarding the Defendant in this case, Mr. O.J. Simpson?

78 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

79 MR. COCHRAN:

And when was that first elimination?

80 MR. AGUILAR:

The first elimination, that was done on June 13th, 1994.

81 MR. COCHRAN:

And so that we're all clear, what does "Elimination" mean?

82 MR. AGUILAR:

"Elimination" means that we compared all of the latent prints to that individual and eliminated that person, means that person did not leave those fingerprints at that--none of the latent prints were recovered were that individual's.

83 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. So that I'm clear--I want to make sure I'm clear on what you're saying--that with regard to any of the prints lifted at the Bundy crime scene, those prints were compared with Mr. Simpson's prints, and he did not make any of those prints. Is that what you're saying?

84 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

85 MR. COCHRAN:

And that determination was made on June 13th of 1994; is that correct?

86 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

87 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, were you involved in the case at that point?

88 MR. AGUILAR:

No.

89 MR. COCHRAN:

Did you--when did you get involved in the case?

90 MR. AGUILAR:

I got involved in the case in late July of 1994.

91 MR. COCHRAN:

And once you got involved in the case as a latent print comparison expert, did you have occasion to review the work of those who had been involved in eliminating Mr. Simpson's prints back on June 13th?

92 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

93 MR. COCHRAN:

And for the record, if you look at 1322, can you tell us the names of the individuals who eliminated Mr. Simpson's prints on June 13th, 1994?

94 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. One of the individuals was a Mr. Albardo, A-L-B-A-R-D-O, and the other individual was Mr. Captia, C-A-P-T-I-A, I believe.

95 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And those are your colleagues; is that correct?

96 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

97 MR. COCHRAN:

And now, when you got involved in the case in July of 1994, did you have occasion to look at the 17 prints lifted from Bundy and compare those prints yourself with those of Mr. O.J. Simpson?

98 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

99 MR. COCHRAN:

And what did you find, if anything, in that regard?

100 MR. AGUILAR:

That none of the latent prints are recovered from the crime scene were identified to Mr. Simpson.

KEY QUOTE
101 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Now, in connection--you have described for this jury and the Court what a latent print is versus a known print, and with regard to the 17 prints that were lifted at Bundy, I would like for you now to take us through and let's talk about where those 17 prints were found in order of the report. Can you do that for us?

102 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

103 MR. COCHRAN:

And with regard to prints that are found, you'll then tell us whether they were able to be identified or nonidentifiable or whatever; is that correct?

104 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

105 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Let's start. And do you have them in some kind of number or some kind of order?

106 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. I have the original latent prints, all 17 of them that were recovered from the crime scene.

107 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And why don't you tell us where those prints were found.

108 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. The first print, no. 1 of 17, the latent print was recovered from the inside of the front door frame at Bundy location.

109 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, what I would like to do is mark this as--if I might interrupt the witness. I'm sorry--as no. 1323. And while he's doing that, if the Court pleases, show it to Mr. Darden, I'd like to put it on the elmo if at all possible.

110 THE COURT:

All right. The latent lift card?

111 MR. COCHRAN:

Yeah, the lat--well, it's not really a lift. No. This is a report and--

112 THE COURT:

All right.

113 MR. COCHRAN:

I'm folding the second page. I'm going to--

114 (Deft's 1323 for id = eliminated latent prints)
115 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorney and Defense counsel.)
116 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, I have now no. 1323, which is a document entitled, "Eliminated latent package A." I would like to approach the witness, lay a foundation if I may.

117 THE COURT:

You may.

118 MR. COCHRAN:

I place this before you again, Mr. Aguilar, and ask you to take a look at this document, now Defendant's 1323 for identification. Do you recognize that document?

119 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

120 MR. COCHRAN:

And what is that?

121 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. This was a document that was written to indicate another--just as the same--as the 187 investigation report or the homicide investigation report was to indicate where the lifts were taken from and also to indicate whether the print was identifiable, whether it was identified to an individual or whether the print was nonidentifiable, which means that it didn't have sufficient characteristics to positively identify it to anybody.

122 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. So this is kind of a summary of the 17 prints we've been talking about?

123 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

124 MR. COCHRAN:

And this may help make it clear for our jury as to where these prints were recovered and that sort of thing; is that correct?

125 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

126 MR. COCHRAN:

Okay. This is an LAPD form?

127 MR. AGUILAR:

No, sir.

128 MR. COCHRAN:

Who wrote this?

129 MR. AGUILAR:

Mr. John green from--a supervisor in my section wrote that.

130 MR. COCHRAN:

He's a supervisor in the LAPD?

131 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

132 MR. COCHRAN:

Looks kind of like an s; is that correct?

133 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

134 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Like to place this on the elmo, first of two pages. It's two pages.

135 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorney and Defense counsel.)
136 MR. COCHRAN:

To save some time, while we're putting this up, why don't you tell us, sir, where these lifts were found. You may proceed.

137 MR. AGUILAR:

Okay. Lift no. 1 of 17 was found on the inside front door, the door frame, and that print--sorry. You just want me to indicate where they were found?

138 MR. COCHRAN:

Can you tell us where they were found and whether or not it was an identifiable print and whether it was identified to any particular individual?

139 MR. AGUILAR:

And you also want the individual that it was identified to?

140 MR. COCHRAN:

Yes. Can you do that?

141 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. Print 1 of 17 was identified to Nicole Simpson.

142 MR. COCHRAN:

And where was that found again?

143 MR. AGUILAR:

That was found on the inside front door frame.

144 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And then what about prints 2, 3 and 4? Where were they located?

145 MR. AGUILAR:

2, 3 and 4 were also located on the inside of the front door. 2 and 3 were actually on the door next to the doorknob and no. 4 was also on the door frame, and neither one of those prints was--print no. 2, 3 and 4 were not identified to anybody as of yet.

146 MR. COCHRAN:

Were they identifiable prints?

147 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

148 MR. COCHRAN:

In other words, you got enough to determine these were latent prints; is that correct?

149 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

150 MR. COCHRAN:

But you have not been able to, as they say in the parlance, make those prints to any particular person; is that correct?

151 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

152 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, with regard to the prints, if you have a fingerprint, there's certain systems within the state of California and perhaps nationally that you can run a fingerprint through to try to determine whether or not it matches up with certain individuals; is that correct?

153 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

154 MR. COCHRAN:

And with regard to palm prints, are you able to do that?

155 MR. AGUILAR:

No.

156 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. With regard to palm prints, in this case, did you compare these palm prints, no. 2, 3 and 4 with Mr. Simpson first of all?

157 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

158 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And those were not Mr. Simpson's prints, were they?

159 MR. AGUILAR:

That's correct.

160 MR. COCHRAN:

And did you have occasion to compare those prints with any other individuals in this case?

161 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

162 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And first of all, did you have any known--other known prints that you compared these three latent prints we're talking about now, your Honor--

163 MR. COCHRAN:

And that's on Defendant's 1323 I believe?

164 THE COURT:

Yes.

165 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Did you compare those 2, 3 and 4 with any other known prints in this particular case?

166 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

167 MR. COCHRAN:

And who was that?

168 MR. AGUILAR:

It was--I compared them with over 58 individuals.

169 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And where did you get these names for the 58 individuals?

170 MR. AGUILAR:

I got them mostly from the investigating officers in this case.

171 MR. COCHRAN:

In other words, what you tried to do was--did you use the crime scene log?

172 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

173 MR. COCHRAN:

And did you go out and try to take and get the prints of everybody who you knew had been at the scene on or about the early morning hours of June 13th of 1994?

174 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. We tried to get everybody's fingerprints.

175 MR. COCHRAN:

And altogether, there were some 58 names that you ran or checked?

176 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

177 MR. COCHRAN:

Okay. And I presume you at some point got the palm prints of each of these individuals; is that correct?

178 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

179 MR. COCHRAN:

And you were able to compare the palm prints of these 58 individuals with items 2, 3 and 4; is that correct?

180 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

181 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, in addition to that, you've already told us that you compared these three, 2, 3 and 4 with Mr. Simpson. Did you compare them with any other known prints of any of the victims in this case?

182 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. I compared them to the fingers or I compared 2's, 3 and 4 to the palm prints of the victims that we had.

183 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. That would be Miss Nicole Brown Simpson, Mr. Ronald Goldman?

184 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

185 MR. COCHRAN:

So if I'm counting correctly, you compared the 2, 3 and 4, the identifiable palm prints from the interior door of the residence at Bundy, with some 61 individuals; is that correct?

186 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

187 MR. COCHRAN:

And were you able to identify any of those 61 individuals as having made the palm prints, 2, 3 and 4, on 1323?

188 MR. AGUILAR:

No.

189 MR. COCHRAN:

Have you compared those palm prints with anyone else at this point?

190 MR. AGUILAR:

No, I don't believe I have.

191 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. So what we've done, you compared it with each of--with Mr. Simpson and Miss Brown Simpson and with Mr. Goldman, right?

192 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

193 MR. COCHRAN:

And then the 58 people who were in and about that scene and/or were friends, is that correct, of Miss Brown Simpson?

194 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

195 MR. COCHRAN:

And family.

196 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Your Honor, I would like to mark as next 1324, which is a five-page document of--these are individuals.

197 THE COURT:

All right. 1324. This is the list of comparisons?

198 MR. COCHRAN:

Yes, it is, the list. The total--I think it totals 58 plus the three, Mr. Simpson, Miss Brown Simpson and Mr. Goldman.

199 THE COURT:

All right. 1324.

200 (Deft's 1324 for id = list of comparisons)
201 MR. DARDEN:

I have no objection, but we will need to replace this with a clean copy.

202 MR. COCHRAN:

I have no problem. And so that you know, the yellow copies, these are the--people from the--from SID. May I approach, your Honor?

203 THE COURT:

You may.

204 MR. COCHRAN:

Okay. 1324, I want to place this before you, and I'll put it on the elmo afterwards. What is this document, no. 1324, that I've placed before you?

205 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. This is a homicide work sheet. We fill out this form whenever we do a comparison to a homicide case. If we're comparing an individual's fingerprints and palm prints to the lifts, we will indicate the individual's name and any information that we have on that individual so that we know how many people and who we checked against those prints.

206 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And in this connection, you've already told us that you used the crime scene log, you took names off there; is that correct?

207 MR. AGUILAR:

That was one of the way, yes.

208 MR. COCHRAN:

And what other individuals did you check that should be on that list?

209 MR. AGUILAR:

I believe family of Nicole Brown and friends.

210 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. So, your Honor, I would like to continue on with the elmo if I might.

211 THE COURT:

Proceed.

212 MR. COCHRAN:

Now so that we get a flavor for the--some of the individuals who were checked, I notice there's a Phil Vannatter. So you checked his palm prints against 2, 3 and 4?

213 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

214 MR. COCHRAN:

You went down this list. These are--this first list here, 1324, are these individuals that you received from the crime scene log?

215 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

216 MR. COCHRAN:

I notice that most of them have numbers after them. Are those LAPD numbers?

217 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. Those are employee serial numbers.

218 MR. COCHRAN:

You checked--you tried to check the LAPD officers who had logged in on that particular date; is that correct?

219 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

220 MR. COCHRAN:

Okay. As to the second sheet, did you check Coroner's representatives and photographers who were also there that day?

221 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

222 MR. COCHRAN:

And so--and by the way, this form where it says "Package," what does "Package a" mean?

223 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. Package a means that that's the first package that we got at the crime scene. Sometimes you may have more than one investigation to it. So you might have a scene. Then you have to go print a vehicle or you might have evidence to process in the lab. So every time we do an investigation at different locations or different scenes, then we would give it a different package, A, B, C and so on.

224 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And with regard to this second page of 1324, there's some highlighting of--if we can push it all the way up--of four individuals. And are those the people we talked about, your colleagues at latent print, Udeshi, Duke, Braggs and Claiborne?

225 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

226 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And you--they have been highlighted as individuals who work within the lab. So you checked them against the prints also; is that correct?

227 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

228 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Third part of 1324, again, you used the log and checked police officers and anyone else at the scene; is that correct?

229 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

230 MR. COCHRAN:

Fourth page finally, fourth page, you had occasion to check family members like Denise Brown; is that correct?

231 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

232 MR. COCHRAN:

Mr. Louis Brown?

233 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

234 MR. COCHRAN:

Faye Resnick; is that correct?

235 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

236 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And lastly, the fifth page, apparently, again, are other individuals from the crime scene log; is that correct?

237 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

238 MR. COCHRAN:

Okay. Now, so that we're clear, with regard to then items 2, 3 and 4 of items 1323, you then checked all of the 58 individuals we've just seen cursorily and plus the other three we're added, 61 individuals, right?

239 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

240 MR. COCHRAN:

And those prints then are still outstanding. You don't know who those prints belong to; is that right?

241 MR. AGUILAR:

They haven't been identified. That's correct.

KEY QUOTE
242 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Now, let's continue on with what you found regarding the latent prints.

243 MR. COCHRAN:

Let's move on to print no. 5 if you can. Let's put that up. Yes. Thanks, Howard.

244 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. I think we're down to print no. 5. And where was that recovered from, sir?

245 THE COURT:

All right. We're back on 1323?

246 MR. COCHRAN:

1323. Yes, your Honor.

247 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. Print no. 5 was recovered from the handrail next to the front door. That print is indicated it's nonidentifiable. It lacks sufficient characteristics in that print to ever identify it to who left it. Even if you had their fingerprints and their palm prints, there's not enough there to identify that print.

248 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. So we'll--based upon it being nonidentifiable, we'll never know whose print that is; is that correct?

249 MR. AGUILAR:

That's correct.

250 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Now, let's move on to print lift no. 6.

251 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. That--no. 6 was recovered from the handrail to the front entrance in the stairwell.

252 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. The handrail from the front entrance of the stairwell at the Bundy location?

253 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

254 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, at some point, you had occasion to go out to the Bundy location; is that correct?

255 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

256 MR. COCHRAN:

When was that?

257 MR. AGUILAR:

Went out I believe it was twice in February of 1995.

258 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Twice this year; is that correct?

259 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

260 MR. COCHRAN:

And did you at that point try to look and see these various locations where these prints were taken?

261 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

262 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. But this one, so we're clear about, this is a left thumb print; is that correct?

263 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

264 MR. COCHRAN:

And it was collected from the handrail middle attached to the front entrance stairwell; is that correct?

265 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

266 MR. COCHRAN:

Where is that? Down near the front gate? Do you remember?

267 MR. AGUILAR:

I'd have to check the--

268 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. What are you checking?

269 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. I'm checking the original latent prints that were recovered from the crime scene that would indicate a photograph--or not a photograph, but a drawing of where it was. It might help me refresh my memory of where it came from.

270 MR. COCHRAN:

Please do that.

271 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. No. 6 did come from the rail close to the front gate.

272 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And was that an identifiable print?

273 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

274 MR. COCHRAN:

And do you know whose print that was?

275 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

276 MR. COCHRAN:

Whose print was that?

277 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. It's the left thumbprint of a photographer named Goodwin, a Mr. Goodwin, G-O-O-D-W-I-N.

278 MR. COCHRAN:

So that's one of the photographers who was at the scene. Did you see that photographer's name on the crime log?

279 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

280 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And I notice you mentioned "By left thumb" on this part where it says "6, left thumb, afis." What is AFIS?

281 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. AFIS is--what it means is the automated fingerprint identification system. It's the fingerprint computer that we use to try to search fingerprints, try to search them through our database.

282 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. So you didn't need--have to use AFIS in this I presume because you knew it was a--one of the people you checked, one of the 58 was a good one; is that correct?

283 MR. AGUILAR:

Right. It was indicated that the print was good enough for AFIS, but once it was identified, there was no need to process it further.

284 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. I understand. Let's move on to no. 7. Now, these are all outside the house as I understand, is that correct, these prints we're talking about?

285 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. No. 7 would be--not all of the rest of them are outside the house. Some are inside.

286 MR. COCHRAN:

Well, let's see. What I had reference to--I'm sorry. As I understand it, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 are outside the house?

287 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

288 MR. COCHRAN:

Is that right? Okay. Then let's move on to--let's talk about no. 7.

289 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. No. 7 was recovered from the top of the gatepost, the small gate outside the front door leading to the rear of the location.

290 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And was that an identifiable print?

291 MR. AGUILAR:

No. It was nonidentifiable.

292 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. So you had a latent print, but you can not--you can not with specificity make that to any individual; is that correct?

293 MR. AGUILAR:

That's correct.

294 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. All right. Let's move on to no. 8, another palm print. Where was that recovered?

295 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. No. 8 was recovered from the outside of the stairwell, the handrail, north side of the location.

296 MR. COCHRAN:

Okay. And the location being the Bundy residence; is that correct?

297 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

298 MR. COCHRAN:

Of Miss Nicole Brown Simpson?

299 MR. AGUILAR:

I'm sorry?

300 MR. COCHRAN:

Of Miss Nicole Brown Simpson?

301 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

302 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And was that an identifiable print?

303 MR. AGUILAR:

No. 8?

304 MR. COCHRAN:

Yes.

305 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

306 MR. COCHRAN:

So that was a print that was identifiable; is that correct?

307 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

308 MR. COCHRAN:

Were you able to make that print to any individual?

309 MR. AGUILAR:

No.

310 MR. COCHRAN:

So that's a print that is outstanding if I can use that word at this point. It's--you've not been able to make that to any individual although it had enough characteristics for you to call it an identifiable print; is that correct?

311 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

312 MR. COCHRAN:

And of course, that print was compared to Mr. Simpson and was not Mr. Simpson, right?

313 MR. AGUILAR:

It was not made to Mr. Simpson, yes.

314 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And at this point, this print, this palm print is still outstanding; is that correct?

315 MR. AGUILAR:

We still don't know who it belongs to, that's correct.

316 MR. COCHRAN:

Okay. And because it's a palm print, you are not able to use the AFIS system or the other system we talked about, right?

317 MR. AGUILAR:

Right.

318 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Let's move on to print no. 9, sir. Where was that located?

319 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. Print no. 9 was located from the outside stairwell handrail the north side of the house, pretty close to where no. 8 was.

320 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And was that an identifiable print?

321 MR. AGUILAR:

No. That print is also nonidentifiable.

322 MR. COCHRAN:

And again, that means you couldn't make that to anyone?

323 MR. AGUILAR:

That's correct.

324 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Let's move to no. 10.

325 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. No. 10 was recovered from the outside gated entrance, the door bar, the gate in front of the location.

326 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. The gate at the front part of this location, of this residence, we've all seen that. It's outside that?

327 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

328 MR. COCHRAN:

For the Bundy side of the street?

329 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

330 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And tell us again where that was, this print.

331 MR. AGUILAR:

It was from the outside gated entrance, the door bar.

332 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And was this an identifiable print?

333 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

334 MR. COCHRAN:

And in that connection then, this print was lifted, and what was this print? What was lifted, if anything?

335 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. A latent print was recovered from that gate that consisted of two fingers.

336 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Which fingers were they?

337 MR. AGUILAR:

Can I check the latent lifts?

338 MR. COCHRAN:

Sure. If you can.

339 (Brief pause.)
340 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. It was the--it was identified to the left index and the left middle finger.

341 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. By the way, you were referring to a latent print card. Can you hold one of those up?

342 MR. COCHRAN:

And perhaps we can show the jury what that looks like, what those latent prints look like. May I approach, your Honor, pass it around?

343 THE COURT:

Yes.

344 MR. COCHRAN:

Let me approach if I might.

345 MR. COCHRAN:

Tell us what that is.

346 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. This is the latent print card or the lift card that was recovered from the Bundy location. This one here would be--indicated 10 of 17. This is the one that was recovered from the front gate entrance.

347 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And that's a lift, that's an actual lift from that front gate area?

348 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. This is the actual latent print itself that was removed.

349 MR. COCHRAN:

You would like to have this back, would you?

350 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

351 MR. COCHRAN:

Okay. May I just--I won't mark it. May I pass it--

352 THE COURT:

What we'll do is, we'll place a photocopy in evidence.

353 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Do you want to mark it then, your Honor?

354 THE COURT:

Yes. Let's mark that as 1325.

355 MR. COCHRAN:

Okay. We'll make--1325. We'll make it a copy of this, your Honor.

356 (Deft's 1325 for id = copy of latent print)
357 MR. COCHRAN:

Where do you want to start?

358 THE COURT:

Juror no. 1.

359 (Exhibit 1325 was examined by the jurors.)
360 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, so what--

361 THE COURT:

Excuse me, Mr. Cochran. When we pass something to the jury, it's my preference we not take any further testimony so that they have their undivided attention looking at the item.

362 MR. COCHRAN:

Sure, your Honor.

363 (Brief pause.)
364 MR. COCHRAN:

May we approach, your Honor, save some time?

365 (The following proceedings were held at the bench:)
366 THE COURT:

All right. We're over at side bar. Is there an objection, Mr. Darden?

367 MR. DARDEN:

Yes, your Honor. There's a 352 objection to lifts 13 through 17. These are lifts from the white Ferrari which was located in Nicole Brown's garage. The garage door was closed when the police arrived. There's no indication that the murderer actually entered the garage area or was anywhere near the Ferrari. Of course, these prints can't be dated nor can they be identified as I understand it. So there's a 352 objection.

368 MR. COCHRAN:

This is part of the 17 prints taken from the Jeep and Ferrari. We don't have just the Prosecution's theory. This was inside the location where the Jeep was, part of the 17. This is of no particular moment, but I think it's certainly relevant and not going to consume a great amount of time. I intend to go right through them.

369 MR. DARDEN:

As I said, the garage is closed. That's a different situation from the Cherokee which is outside, the door ajar and bloodstain next to it.

370 MR. COCHRAN:

But, Judge, there's no showing--none of us were there--as to what happened, whether the garage is closed or not. It could have been let up or let down.

371 MS. CLARK:

A number of things could have happened.

372 THE COURT:

Objection is overruled. I don't think it would be overly time-consuming. But also, did they ever compare any of these prints to the children?

373 MR. COCHRAN:

I don't think the children were compared. I don't think the children were compared.

374 THE COURT:

Just curious.

375 MR. COCHRAN:

I don't think so.

376 THE COURT:

Just curious.

377 (The following proceedings were held in open court:)
378 THE COURT:

All right. The record should reflect the print card regarding this particular two fingers lift has been returned. And if you could, Mr. Cochran, would you give it to Mrs. Robertson, and we'll have one of the law clerks make a photocopy, back and front, and we'll substitute that as 1325.

379 MR. COCHRAN:

I'm doing that right now. Thank you, your Honor.

380 MR. COCHRAN:

I think we were talking about lift no. 10; is that correct, sir?

381 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

382 MR. COCHRAN:

And this was the one out by the outside gated entrance door bar. And with regard to this latent print, did you have to run that print through the AFIS system or any other system at all?

383 MR. AGUILAR:

It was indicated that it was good enough for the AFIS system.

384 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And were you able to make this print to any particular individual?

385 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

386 MR. COCHRAN:

And who was that individual?

387 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. It was Detective Ron Phillips.

388 MR. COCHRAN:

Is that one of the detectives in this case?

389 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

390 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And that was his print; is that correct?

391 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

392 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Let's then shift our attention to item no. 11. Can you tell the jury where that item was recovered?

393 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. Item 11 was inside the Bundy location. It was recovered from the outside bathroom door that's between the kitchen area and the living room. It was--that print was identified. It was identifiable and it was identified.

394 MR. COCHRAN:

Okay. It was identified--identifiable and identified. And what was that print of? Was it a finger or palm or what?

395 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. It's a finger.

396 MR. COCHRAN:

And which finger was it?

397 MR. AGUILAR:

It's the right index finger.

398 MR. COCHRAN:

And who was this print identified to?

399 MR. AGUILAR:

To a Miss Faye Resnick.

400 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, are you able to date prints as to when somebody made a particular print of a location?

401 MR. AGUILAR:

You mean when somebody left the print or when somebody developed it?

402 MR. COCHRAN:

No. As to when the print was left.

403 MR. AGUILAR:

No.

404 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. All right. Now, let's shift our attention to item no. 12 that was collected.

405 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. No. 12 was recovered from a pack of Marlboro Lights cigarette that was in the master bedroom or bathroom, the back of the toilet.

406 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. You think that might be a typo there where it says "Bedroom"?

407 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. It might have been.

408 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. At any rate, was this an identifiable print?

409 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. It was identifiable and it was identified.

410 MR. COCHRAN:

And who was it identified to?

411 MR. AGUILAR:

To the victim, Nicole Brown.

412 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And then with regard to--

413 MR. COCHRAN:

And we'll turn to the second page, Mr. Harris, of 1323.

414 MR. COCHRAN:

Tell us about prints 13, 14 and 15. I believe they're all collected at the same location.

415 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. Prints 13, 14 and 15, all three of them came from a white Ferrari vehicle that was in the back of the location.

416 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And were these identifiable prints, sir?

417 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

418 MR. COCHRAN:

And were they identified to any particular individual?

419 MR. AGUILAR:

No.

420 MR. COCHRAN:

Could not identify those to any particular individual?

421 MR. AGUILAR:

That's correct. There--we have not identified them.

422 MR. COCHRAN:

And those prints are then still outstanding; is that correct?

423 MR. AGUILAR:

Right. We still don't know who they are.

424 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. You haven't made those to any individuals; is that correct?

425 MR. AGUILAR:

That's correct.

426 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Now, let's then lastly go to items 16 and 17. By the way--strike that. Let me back up a moment. With regard to items 13 and 14, I see an AFIS, a-f-I-s, after that. Were those prints that were found on the Ferrari that are identifiable run through any systems?

427 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

428 MR. COCHRAN:

Describe what happened in that connection, sir.

429 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. Those prints, no. 13 and 14, are both fingers. So we were able to put those two prints into the AFIS system or the automated fingerprint identification system of the Los Angeles Police Department to see that--if it would give us a possible match. That was unsuccessful. We did not get a match. So once that happened, we ran it through the Department of Justice fingerprint computer. And even with doing that, we still did not get a match. And we also went as far as running it through the win or the western identification network, which is part of the western states that are hooked up to each other that we're able to access some of these computer systems. And we ran it through those systems and they're still--the prints are still--have not been identified.

430 MR. COCHRAN:

And these systems, these computer systems that you're talking about, do you have any idea of how many prints or the latent print is compared so when they run through the win system or the AFIS system?

431 MR. AGUILAR:

Well, the AFIS system, the prints would be run through our entire database, and we have over two million fingerprint cards at the Los Angeles Police Department. When--run it through the Department of Justice or through Sacramento, their computer system, it also has--it runs their entire database, which is I believe over 5---over 10 million fingerprint cards for there. Then the win program, I'm not too sure how many actual fingerprint cards are in the database for each individual location.

432 MR. COCHRAN:

I guess we could say a lot though, right?

433 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. More than Sacramento's would be.

434 MR. COCHRAN:

Okay. But at any rate, it was run through the AFIS system and the win system, and you're not able to make these two fingerprints found on the Ferrari to any individual known at this point; is that correct?

435 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

436 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Now, we've already covered that with regard to a palm print, you're more limited; is that correct?

437 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

438 MR. COCHRAN:

But with regard to the palm print that was found on the Ferrari, would I be correct in assuming that you compared that palm print to the 58 individuals who were on the log and/or family friends plus Mr. Simpson, Miss Simpson and Mr. Goldman? Is that correct?

439 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

440 MR. COCHRAN:

And that palm print didn't come back to any of those individuals either, right?

441 MR. AGUILAR:

Right.

442 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And shifting our attention lastly to items--prints 16 and 17, where were they lifted from, sir?

443 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. Both of those prints were lifted from a black Cherokee Jeep that was--both of them came from the outside passenger side rear fender.

444 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And were there identifiable prints lifted from this black Cherokee Jeep?

445 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. Both of them were also palm prints.

446 MR. COCHRAN:

And were you able to identify any individual with regard to these two identifiable prints?

447 MR. AGUILAR:

No.

448 MR. COCHRAN:

And again, they were palm prints. So you couldn't run them through the system, but you ran them through all the individuals you mentioned before?

449 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

450 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And they did not match up with anyone connected with this case at least at this point; is that right?

451 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

452 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, so that we're clear, to summarize, you had 17 lifts; is that correct?

453 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

454 MR. COCHRAN:

17 prints were lifted. And of those 17, as I understand it, keeping track, 14 of those were identifiable; is that correct?

455 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

456 MR. COCHRAN:

And of the 14 that were identifiable, five were actually identified; isn't that correct?

457 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

458 MR. COCHRAN:

Okay. So that leaves nine that were identifiable but have not been identified, but are still out there. We don't know who made those prints, right?

459 MR. AGUILAR:

Right.

460 MR. COCHRAN:

Is that correct?

461 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

462 (Brief pause.)
463 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, you last worked on this case when, sir, with regard to any comparisons or identifications?

464 MR. AGUILAR:

The last time I did a comparison?

465 MR. COCHRAN:

Yes.

466 MR. AGUILAR:

I would have to check my records.

467 MR. COCHRAN:

Just approximately.

468 (Brief pause.)
469 MR. COCHRAN:

Maybe I can ask you another question, save some time.

470 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

471 MR. COCHRAN:

Do you have the answer now?

472 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. I believe the last time would have been February 7th, 1995.

473 MR. COCHRAN:

Okay. So to summarize if we could--and you can check your records if you need to--the prints that were identifiable, but not identified to any individual are numbers 2, 3, 4, 8, 13, 14, 15, 16 and 17; is that correct?

474 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

475 MR. COCHRAN:

That we saw on 1323; is that correct, sir?

476 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

477 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, with regard to your testimony here, you--when's the first time you ever met me?

478 MR. AGUILAR:

I believe this morning.

479 MR. COCHRAN:

First time we ever talked; is that correct?

480 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

481 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And I want to ask you a couple other questions. With regard to this concept of fingerprints, are you able to get fingerprints from inside of a glove, depending upon the glove?

482 MR. AGUILAR:

It would depend on what type of glove it was that--

483 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Some gloves you can get fingerprints from and some others you can't depending upon the type. Is that what you're saying?

484 MR. AGUILAR:

Right. If it's a latex or a vinyl glove, then we'll attempt to get a latent print off of it if it's possible to get a print.

485 MR. COCHRAN:

Did you attempt to get any prints off any gloves in connection with this case?

KEY QUOTE
486 MR. AGUILAR:

No.

487 MR. COCHRAN:

Now--

488 MR. COCHRAN:

May I have just one second, your Honor?

489 THE COURT:

Certainly.

490 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)
491 MR. COCHRAN:

With regard--do you know whether or not--and looking--and I can put the chart back up--of the 58 plus family members, do you know whether or not the children's prints--you obtained the known prints of the Simpson minor children, Justin and Sidney Simpson?

492 MR. AGUILAR:

Oh, they do not.

493 MR. COCHRAN:

Could you rule out any of the prints remaining by virtue of the size of the prints, that is adult prints or whatever?

494 MR. AGUILAR:

I would have to know the size of the children.

495 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. So that you don't--so you don't know at this point; is that correct?

496 MR. AGUILAR:

No.

497 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Now, with regard to your work and your examination here, did--you told us that at some point, you had a reference or a known print from Nicole Brown Simpson, Ron Goldman and from O.J. Simpson; is that correct?

498 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

499 MR. COCHRAN:

And Mr. Simpson, Mr. O.J. Simpson's prints were obtained on June 13th; isn't that correct?

500 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

501 MR. COCHRAN:

And that was--that enabled them to eliminate him that same day, isn't that correct, because they had his prints as of the 13th?

502 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

503 MR. COCHRAN:

With regard to Miss Nicole Brown Simpson, did you have both of her palm prints?

504 MR. AGUILAR:

No.

505 MR. COCHRAN:

And with regard to that, were you relying upon the Coroner's office?

506 MR. AGUILAR:

The Coroner's office are the one that took the palm prints.

507 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Whomever in the Coroner's office took the palm prints; is that right?

508 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

509 MR. COCHRAN:

And in that connection, what were you working with? What did you receive from either the Coroner's office or their representative with regard to the reference prints of Miss Nicole Brown Simpson?

510 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. We retrieved--received the impressions or the fingerprints of all 10 fingers and the impressions or the palm prints of the right palm twice.

KEY QUOTE
511 MR. COCHRAN:

In other words, they took all 10 fingers, they took the palm, the right palm twice and you never had the left palm; is that right?

512 MR. AGUILAR:

That's correct.

513 MR. COCHRAN:

But you did have all 10 fingers; is that right?

514 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

515 MR. COCHRAN:

May I have just a second, your Honor?

516 THE COURT:

Certainly.

517 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)
518 MR. COCHRAN:

Just one or two further questions, your Honor.

519 MR. COCHRAN:

Did you--in the course of the investigation in this case, did you have occasion to talk with any of the investigating officers in this case at all?

520 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

521 MR. COCHRAN:

And from them, I presume you were able to obtain the logs of people who had been at the crime scene and that sort of thing?

522 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

523 MR. COCHRAN:

And through them, I presume you were able to get the prints and palm prints of friends of Miss Nicole Brown Simpson; is that correct?

524 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

525 MR. COCHRAN:

At any point, when you knew that we--that you had some nine prints that you couldn't match up, identifiable prints we couldn't match up, did anyone ever either take the fingerprints of palm prints of the minor children at all?

526 MR. AGUILAR:

Not to my knowledge.

527 MR. COCHRAN:

Did you ever request that?

528 MR. AGUILAR:

I requested to the parents of Nicole Brown when I fingerprinted them, when they came to the location to get fingerprinted, I indicated to them that we would like to have the fingerprints of the children and--

529 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Not what they said back. You made that statement to them?

530 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

531 MR. COCHRAN:

Did you ever get those prints at all?

532 MR. AGUILAR:

No, sir.

533 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. I want you to assume hypothetically the children were five and eight years of age. Do you have that in mind?

534 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

535 MR. COCHRAN:

And would you--if you knew the children were of that age and normal healthy children, would you have an idea of the size of those children's hands, a boy five and a girl eight?

536 MR. DARDEN:

Objection. Calls for speculation.

537 THE COURT:

Overruled.

538 MR. AGUILAR:

Again, it would depend on how big they were, not just how old they are.

539 MR. COCHRAN:

Right. Assume they're normal healthy five years old and eight years old. Do you know what that means?

540 MR. DARDEN:

This is vague.

541 MR. COCHRAN:

That may be a little vague. Yes, I agree.

542 MR. COCHRAN:

Assuming they're normal size children for five years old and eight years old.

543 MR. COCHRAN:

That's probably still vague, isn't it?

544 THE COURT:

Yes.

545 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Let me see. At no point did you ever get the children's fingerprints, did you?

546 MR. AGUILAR:

That's correct.

547 MR. COCHRAN:

And with regard to these prints that are identifiable, but not identified or made to any particular individual, do you know whether any of those prints were small enough to be children's prints?

548 MR. DARDEN:

Objection. Speculation.

549 THE COURT:

Overruled.

550 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

551 MR. COCHRAN:

Do you know that for a fact?

552 MR. AGUILAR:

By looking at it and determining the size of the ridges and how far they are apart from each other, there is at least one print in there that could belong to a child as young as three years old to--to maybe even a young adult.

553 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. So that's one of the nine?

554 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

555 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. So of the other eight--I presume from my question then, the other eight would not be, in your opinion, made by a child?

556 MR. AGUILAR:

Let me re-examine the lifts.

557 MR. COCHRAN:

Sure.

558 MR. COCHRAN:

May I approach? Not that I'll know what I'm looking at, but--

559 THE COURT:

Well, perhaps we ought to take our break now and let Mr. Aguilar look at it over the lunch hour.

560 MR. COCHRAN:

Fine. And I'm finished at this point, your Honor, unless--may we have a second?

561 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorney and Defense counsel.)
562 MR. DARDEN:

I have 20 minutes I would think. That's all.

563 THE COURT:

We need to finish--we need to quit right now.

564 (Brief pause.)
565 MR. COCHRAN:

So now--you've now looked through all of the nine prints that have not been identified to any individuals; is that correct?

566 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

567 MR. COCHRAN:

And you've taken one card out; is that correct?

568 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

569 MR. COCHRAN:

And this one card is the one that you're referring to that could have been made by a youngster or child; is that correct?

570 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

571 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. The other eight then I presume could have been made by adults; is that correct?

572 MR. AGUILAR:

The ones that are identifiable. The other ones that are nonidentifiable, I couldn't tell.

573 MR. COCHRAN:

Right. No. I'm talking about the identifiable ones. I'm talking about the nine identifiable ones, right?

574 MR. AGUILAR:

That's correct.

575 MR. COCHRAN:

And your testimony is, of those eight, eight of those would be from adults, right?

576 MR. AGUILAR:

Or a big child.

577 MR. COCHRAN:

Big child. Big child or adult, right?

578 MR. AGUILAR:

Right.

579 MR. COCHRAN:

Okay. Very good.

580 THE COURT:

Mr. Cochran, I don't think we've identified for the record purposes which one of those is--that Mr. Aguilar has indicated is possibly a young child.

581 MR. COCHRAN:

Sure, your Honor.

582 THE COURT:

Which print of the 17 is that?

583 MR. COCHRAN:

Why don't I do that now, your Honor? Of the nine, this is one, your Honor, and it's number--DR number? It's no. 4 of 17. It's item no. 4 of 17, your Honor, and it was recovered from inside the front door door frame.

584 THE COURT:

All right. We need to take our recess at this point.

585 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Very well, your Honor.

586 THE COURT:

All right. Ladies and gentlemen, we're going to take our recess for the noon hour. Please remember all my admonitions; do not discuss the case amongst yourselves, don't form any opinions about the case, don't conduct any deliberations until the matter has been submitted to you, don't allow anybody to communicate with you with regard to the case. We'll stand in recess until 1 o'clock. Mr. Aguilar, 1 o'clock.

587 (At 12:05 P.M., the noon recess was taken until 1:00 P.M. of the same day.)
588 (Appearances as heretofore noted.)
589 (Janet M. Moxham, CSR no. 4855, official reporter.)
590 (Christine M. Olson, CSR no. 2378, official reporter.)
591 (The following proceedings were held in open court, out of the presence of the jury:)
592 THE COURT:

All right. Back on the record in the Simpson matter. All parties are again present. Deputy Magnera, let's have the jurors, please.

593 (The following proceedings were held in open court, in the presence of the jury:)
594 THE COURT:

All right. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Please be seated. All right. Let the record reflect we have been rejoined by all the members of our jury panel. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Mr. Aguilar, would you resume the witness stand, please.

Gilbert Aguilar, the witness on the stand at the time of the noon recess, resumed the stand and testified further as follows:

595 THE COURT:

All right. The record should reflect Mr. Gilbert Aguilar is on the witness stand currently under direct examination by Mr. Cochran. Good afternoon, Mr. Aguilar.

596 MR. AGUILAR:

Good afternoon.

597 THE COURT:

Mr. Aguilar, sir, you are reminded you are still under oath. And, Mr. Cochran, do you have some additional questions?

598 MR. COCHRAN:

No, your Honor.

599 THE COURT:

All right. Thank you.

600 MR. COCHRAN:

I just wanted to scare the court reporter. That's all.

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Gilbert Aguilar
None of the latent prints are recovered from the crime scene were identified to Mr. Simpson.
Core exculpatory finding — the defense's central point from this witness, repeated and confirmed multiple times
Gilbert Aguilar
They haven't been identified. That's correct.
Nine identifiable prints from the crime scene remain unmatched — the defense uses this to suggest an unidentified person was present
Gilbert Aguilar
Did you attempt to get any prints off any gloves in connection with this case? No.
Cochran establishes that no fingerprint analysis was done on the gloves, a notable gap in the investigation
Gilbert Aguilar
We retrieved--received the impressions or the fingerprints of all 10 fingers and the impressions or the palm prints of the right palm twice.
The Coroner's office never obtained Nicole Brown Simpson's left palm print, limiting the ability to identify or exclude her from unmatched prints

Evidence (4)

Defense 1322
LAPD SID latent print section homicide investigation report listing all 17 latent print lifts from Bundy
introduced, stipulated
Defense 1323
'Eliminated latent package A' — summary document of the 17 prints, their locations, and identification status
introduced, discussed in detail
Defense 1324
Five-page homicide worksheet listing all 61 individuals whose prints were compared to the unidentified latent prints
introduced, reviewed page by page
Defense 1325
Photocopy of actual latent print lift card no. 10 of 17 (two-finger print from front gate, identified as Det. Ron Phillips)
introduced, passed to jury for examination

Notable Exchanges (4)

Christopher DardenJohnnie CochranLance A. Ito
Sidebar in which Darden raised a 352 objection to prints 13-17 lifted from the white Ferrari in Nicole's closed garage, arguing no evidence the murderer entered the garage. Cochran countered that it was part of the 17-print package and consumed little time. Ito overruled and curiously asked whether the Simpson children's prints were ever compared.
strategic
Johnnie CochranGilbert Aguilar
Cochran elicited that Faye Resnick's right index fingerprint was found inside the house on the bathroom door between the kitchen and living room — an identifiable, identified print at the scene.
revealing
Johnnie CochranGilbert Aguilar
Cochran established that Detective Ron Phillips' fingerprints were found on the outside gated entrance door bar at the front of the Bundy property.
strategic
Johnnie CochranGilbert Aguilar
Cochran confirmed that Aguilar first met him that morning and had never spoken with him before — a credibility-bolstering moment for the defense witness.
strategic

Light Moments (2)

Gilbert Aguilar
When Cochran noted the AFIS search covered a massive number of prints, Aguilar deadpanned 'More than Sacramento's would be' after Cochran suggested 'I guess we could say a lot though, right?'
Lance A. Ito
Judge Ito, after overruling Darden's objection to the Ferrari prints, asked unprompted whether the Simpson children's prints had ever been compared, then clarified 'Just curious' twice.

Witness Demeanor

(Brief pause.) — witness checked records multiple times during testimony
Methodical and precise; consistently asked to check original lift cards before answering location-specific questions

Objections

1 objections (0 sustained, 1 overruled)
Proceeding 7351 • 600 utterances • Defense witness
Criminal Trial
Department 103
⚖️ Start
📂 AUG 17, 1995 📄 Direct examination of Gilbert
AUG 17, 1995 KRT DvH TD