📄 Cross-examination of Gilbert Aguilar (part 1) — Thursday, August 17, 1995
Address:
C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\AUG\17\CROSS-EXAMINATION-OF-GILBERT-A.DOC
TRIAL
▲ Day 138 of 167

Cross-examination of Gilbert Aguilar (part 1)

Witness: Gilbert Aguilar
Examiner: Christopher Darden
Called by: Defense • Date: Thursday, August 17, 1995 • Utterances: 247
Darden cross-examines LAPD fingerprint analyst Gilbert Aguilar, strategically establishing that fingerprints cannot be lifted from leather gloves, cashmere linings, cloth, stucco, concrete, or human flesh — directly neutralizing the defense's implication that the absence of Simpson's prints on the bloody gloves is exculpatory. Darden further elicits that three unidentified prints at Bundy (nos. 5, 7, 9) cannot exclude Simpson as their source, and that an unidentified palm print (no. 8) cannot exclude Nicole Brown because the Coroner never provided her left palm print card.
1 THE COURT:

Mr. Darden.

2 MR. DARDEN:

Yes, thank you.

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. DARDEN

3 MR. DARDEN:

Good afternoon.

4 MR. AGUILAR:

Afternoon.

5 MR. DARDEN:

Mr. Aguilar, you wouldn't expect a person wearing a pair of rubber gloves to leave fingerprints at a location, would you?

6 MR. COCHRAN:

Objection. Calls for speculation.

7 THE COURT:

Overruled.

8 MR. AGUILAR:

No.

9 MR. DARDEN:

How many prints have you said that you lifted and compared during your career?

10 MR. AGUILAR:

Oh, over 125-, maybe 150,000.

11 MR. DARDEN:

Now, are you aware that in this case, we are somewhat concerned with a pair of bloody leather gloves?

12 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to the form of the question. That's vague.

13 THE COURT:

Overruled. Overruled.

14 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

15 MR. DARDEN:

And are you also aware that those gloves have a cashmere lining inside?

16 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

17 MR. DARDEN:

Now, we don't always leave fingerprints on every surface we touch, do we?

18 MR. AGUILAR:

Very rarely.

19 MR. DARDEN:

And you can't always lift a fingerprint from each and every kind of surface, can you?

20 MR. AGUILAR:

No.

21 MR. DARDEN:

Can you lift a fingerprint off cashmere?

22 MR. AGUILAR:

I never have. I never heard of anybody that has. You can try, but I've never heard of any success.

KEY QUOTE
23 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Now, when you're dealing with a situation where you have a pair of leather gloves that are bloody, you as an analyst, you're in a catch 22 situation of sorts, aren't you?

24 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to the form of the question.

25 THE COURT:

Sustained. It's vague.

26 MR. DARDEN:

Well, when you have a pair of bloody leather gloves--

27 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to the form, bloody gloves also.

28 THE COURT:

Overruled.

29 MR. DARDEN:

You can imagine I take it circumstances where you might want to try and lift a fingerprint off those leather gloves, correct?

30 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

31 MR. DARDEN:

And at the same time, you might also want to do some serological analysis, blood analysis, correct?

32 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

33 MR. DARDEN:

Assuming that you have a fingerprint on a pair of leather gloves and the gloves are also bloody, can you do both the serological analysis and lift the fingerprint?

34 MR. AGUILAR:

If you have a latent print that's there?

35 MR. DARDEN:

Yeah.

36 MR. AGUILAR:

You have to take the blood before you try to process it for fingerprints because the chemicals that we would use to process it for any latent prints would have a good tendency or they would destroy any evidential value of the blood.

37 MR. DARDEN:

And any chemical used to remove the blood could also destroy the underlying latent fingerprint; is that correct?

38 MR. COCHRAN:

Leading and suggestive.

39 THE COURT:

Overruled.

40 MR. DARDEN:

Is that correct?

41 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. Even if you don't use chemicals, your just wiping it off will destroy a print.

KEY QUOTE
42 MR. DARDEN:

What are the chances of lifting a latent print off of a pair of leather gloves?

43 MR. COCHRAN:

Object, your Honor, without proper foundation.

44 THE COURT:

Sustained.

45 MR. DARDEN:

Well, have you ever lifted a fingerprint off a pair of leather gloves?

46 MR. AGUILAR:

Never been able to develop an identifiable print.

KEY QUOTE
47 THE COURT:

You're talking about leather or--

48 MR. AGUILAR:

Off of a leather glove.

49 MR. DARDEN:

You have never been able to develop an identifiable fingerprint from a leather glove?

KEY QUOTE
50 MR. COCHRAN:

Asked and answered.

51 THE COURT:

Overruled. I interrupted and asked a question.

52 MR. DARDEN:

May I reask the question?

53 THE COURT:

Please.

54 MR. AGUILAR:

That's correct.

55 MR. DARDEN:

You've never been able to lift an identifiable fingerprint from a leather glove?

56 MR. AGUILAR:

That's correct.

57 MR. DARDEN:

And there are other surfaces that we don't commonly leave fingerprints on when we touch those surfaces; is that correct?

58 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

59 MR. DARDEN:

And those include stucco?

60 MR. AGUILAR:

Stucco, yes.

61 MR. DARDEN:

You've been out to Bundy; is that correct?

62 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

63 MR. DARDEN:

Is there stucco on the walls on the walkway near the front door, outside the front door rather?

64 MR. AGUILAR:

I believe I did look at the surface of the walls on the residence, and it was very rough. I don't remember if it was stucco or not, but determined that nothing could have been done.

65 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. How about concrete?

66 MR. AGUILAR:

Concrete is very difficult.

67 MR. DARDEN:

Why is that?

68 MR. AGUILAR:

Well, concrete is a porous surface and it's not very smooth. Even if it's real smooth surface, it's going to absorb the print in there almost immediately and you're not going to be able to develop a print.

69 MR. DARDEN:

How about cloth?

70 MR. AGUILAR:

Oh, cloth is almost impossible. There are--you could try to develop prints off of it. If you're unable to see the print, there are chemicals you could try to use, but the success rate--in fact, I've never even tried to get a print off of a cloth. I've read about it and I haven't read of any success, that you're unable to see the print and develop it.

71 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. How about flesh? If I were to touch your hand, would I leave a fingerprint on your hand?

72 MR. AGUILAR:

Depending on what part of the hand.

73 MR. DARDEN:

Back of the hand.

74 MR. AGUILAR:

Back of my hand, it's very unlikely. The skin, a human skin, it's very hard to get prints off of. I've tried to get prints off of over 30 homicide victims and I was unsuccessful in different operations to try it, different chemicals, different procedures. I've been unsuccessful. There are a couple of cases that I do know about where somebody did actually lift a latent print from a homicide victim.

75 MR. DARDEN:

And you can't date a fingerprint, can you?

76 MR. AGUILAR:

No.

77 MR. DARDEN:

Today was the first time that you met Mr. Cochran?

78 MR. AGUILAR:

I believe so.

79 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. But you have met Mr. Douglas, haven't you?

80 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

81 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. On how many different occasions have you met Mr. Douglas?

82 MR. AGUILAR:

I met him at least two other times.

83 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And you spoke with him regarding your testimony?

84 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

85 MR. DARDEN:

You spoke to him regarding your analysis?

86 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

87 MR. DARDEN:

And when you spoke to Mr. Douglas, was he accompanied by two other gentlemen?

88 MR. AGUILAR:

At least two other, yes.

89 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And do you recall the names of those two gentlemen?

90 MR. AGUILAR:

I know that one of then was Deputy District Attorney Alan Yochelson and the other one, I don't remember his name, but I believe he was a Defense investigator.

91 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Do you recall meeting with a man by the name of Ragle, Mr. Ragle?

92 MR. AGUILAR:

Larry Ragle, yes.

93 MR. DARDEN:

And he is a criminalist for the Defense?

94 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. He did indicate he was for the Defense.

95 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. You told us that you eliminated the Defendant here from the identifiable prints that you were able to analyze; is that correct?

96 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

97 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Did you also eliminate Detective Vannatter from the identifiable prints?

98 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

99 MR. DARDEN:

Did you eliminate Detective Fuhrman from the identifiable prints?

100 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

101 MR. DARDEN:

And did you iden--eliminate, rather, Detective Lange from the identifiable prints?

102 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

103 MR. DARDEN:

Now, you told us about prints numbered 5, 7 and 9, no. 5 being a print lifted from the handrail next to the front door; is that correct?

104 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

105 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Was that print left by the Defendant?

106 MR. AGUILAR:

I don't know.

107 MR. DARDEN:

Could have been, huh?

108 MR. COCHRAN:

Just a moment. Calls for speculation.

109 THE COURT:

Rephrase the question.

110 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. You can't tell us that that print was not left by the Defendant; is that correct?

111 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to the form of the question. No foundation.

112 THE COURT:

Overruled. Overruled.

113 MR. AGUILAR:

That's correct.

114 MR. DARDEN:

With regard to print no. 7, a latent print lifted from the top of the gatepost--by the way, is that the front gate?

115 MR. AGUILAR:

No. It's a small post--excuse me--between the front door of the residence going towards the back gate. It's in-between those two locations.

116 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. You can't tell us that the Defendant didn't leave that print; is that correct?

117 MR. COCHRAN:

Objection. Calls for speculation, your Honor.

118 THE COURT:

Rephrase the question.

119 MR. DARDEN:

Can you tell us whether or not the Defendant left that print?

120 MR. AGUILAR:

No.

121 MR. DARDEN:

You can't tell us that he didn't leave the print; is that correct?

122 MR. AGUILAR:

Correct.

123 MR. DARDEN:

And print no. 9, that is a print located outside--is that on a railing on the stairwell on the north side of the house?

124 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. Indicates it's outside stairwell, north side of house.

125 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. You can't tell us that the Defendant didn't leave that print, can you?

126 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to the form of the question.

127 THE COURT:

Rephrase the question.

128 MR. DARDEN:

Can you tell us whether or not the Defendant left that print?

129 MR. AGUILAR:

No.

130 MR. DARDEN:

You can't tell us that he didn't leave that print, can you?

131 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to the form of the question. Asked and answered.

132 THE COURT:

Overruled. Different print.

133 MR. AGUILAR:

Correct.

134 MR. DARDEN:

Now, you also told us about print nos. 2 and 3. Now, are both of those prints located near the doorknob on the front door inside the house?

135 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

136 MR. DARDEN:

And did you describe those prints as identifiable prints?

137 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

138 MR. DARDEN:

You couldn't match those prints to anyone in particular?

139 MR. AGUILAR:

That's correct.

140 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Now, this is a residence, correct?

141 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

142 MR. DARDEN:

And it's not unusual or uncommon after printing the residence, that you are unable to match a fingerprint located near the doorknob on the door, is it?

143 MR. AGUILAR:

I'm sorry. Could you repeat the question?

144 MR. DARDEN:

Well, the print, these two prints that are located near the doorknob on the front door, that's not uncommon; that is, it's not uncommon that you are unable to match those prints to someone in particular, is it?

145 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to the form of that question.

146 THE COURT:

Overruled. You can answer the question.

147 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. That's correct.

148 MR. DARDEN:

And that's because people come and go through that doorway one would assume; is that correct?

149 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

150 MR. DARDEN:

Strangers come, strangers go?

151 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

152 MR. DARDEN:

And each time that someone grabs the doorknob, for instance, fingerprints that may have been left there by others are obliterated; is that right?

153 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, object to the form. He's testifying. Leading and suggestive.

154 THE COURT:

Overruled. It's cross-examination.

155 MR. DARDEN:

Is that right?

156 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. Not only will it destroy or tend to destroy any prints that are left behind, but you can leave a print over print and you could not identify either print.

157 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And with regard to print nos. 2 and 3, you can't tell us when those prints were left on the door, can you?

158 MR. AGUILAR:

No.

159 MR. DARDEN:

Now, you told us that you identified one of Detective Phillips' fingerprints at the scene?

160 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

161 MR. DARDEN:

One of the things that you do as an analyst is, you attempt to eliminate known individuals from having left fingerprints at crime scenes; is that correct?

162 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

163 MR. DARDEN:

So what you do is, you go out somewhere somehow and you obtain known exemplars of known individuals' fingerprints, right?

164 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

165 MR. DARDEN:

It's not uncommon for police officers to leave prints at a scene, is it?

166 MR. AGUILAR:

No.

167 MR. DARDEN:

And one of the things that you do as an expert, a fingerprint comparison expert is, you look at the prints left at the scene, compare those to the officers so that you can eliminate the officers or at least identify who left prints at a scene, right?

168 MR. AGUILAR:

That's correct.

169 MR. DARDEN:

Nothing unusual about that?

170 MR. AGUILAR:

None at all.

171 MR. DARDEN:

You told us about print no. 8, which was a palm print on the railing?

172 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

173 MR. DARDEN:

And I think you also told us that you received from the Coroner only one of Nicole Brown's palm prints; is that right?

174 MR. AGUILAR:

I received the right palm print twice, two sets of right palm prints.

175 MR. DARDEN:

You did not receive her left palm print?

176 MR. AGUILAR:

That's correct.

177 MR. DARDEN:

Now, the unidentifiable palm print on the railing, no. 8, can you tell us whether or not Nicole Brown left that palm print?

178 MR. COCHRAN:

Calls for speculation, your Honor.

179 THE COURT:

Overruled.

180 MR. AGUILAR:

You mean the print that was identified, but not--was not identified to anybody?

181 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Yes.

182 MR. AGUILAR:

No. I can not tell you who left that print. It could have been her.

KEY QUOTE
183 MR. DARDEN:

You can't exclude Nicole Brown, can you?

184 MR. AGUILAR:

No.

185 MR. DARDEN:

And that's because you don't have her left palm print card; is that correct?

186 MR. AGUILAR:

That's correct.

187 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And that is an identifiable print, right?

188 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

189 MR. DARDEN:

With regard to that particular print, no. 8, the identifiable palm print no. 8, can you tell us whether or not that palm print is consistent in size and shape as is Nicole Brown's right palm print?

190 MR. COCHRAN:

Calls for speculation.

191 THE COURT:

Overruled. Can you tell something like that?

192 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. I examined it to the right palm print, the right palm print that I had. I had to eliminate that it wasn't the right palm. So I examined it, and doing that examination, noticed that the ridge detail, the thickness, how far apart they were, the whole shape did--were consistent with the right palm, but it was not the right palm.

193 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. The right hand and the left hand on any individual both have different fingerprints, right?

194 MR. AGUILAR:

Everything is different.

195 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And palm prints on each hand is also different?

196 MR. AGUILAR:

Completely.

197 MR. DARDEN:

You also talked about the Ferrari; is that right?

198 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

199 MR. DARDEN:

And those were print cards 13, 14 and 15?

200 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

201 MR. DARDEN:

Are you aware that the Ferrari was locked in the garage when the police discovered the body?

202 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to the form of the question.

203 THE COURT:

Overruled.

204 MR. AGUILAR:

No.

205 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Print card no. 13.

206 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to the form of the question about the locked part, assuming a fact not in evidence.

207 THE COURT:

Overruled. No. There was testimony about that.

208 MR. DARDEN:

Item no. 13, that is a--where was that print located on the Ferrari?

209 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. It was located on the hood area, on the driver's side of the hood area towards the front of it. So it would be almost where the headlight is on the driver's side of the vehicle.

210 MR. DARDEN:

And that is an identifiable fingerprint?

211 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

212 MR. DARDEN:

Were you able to match that print to Miss Brown's mechanic?

213 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to the form of that question. Calls for speculation, your Honor, assumes a fact not in evidence, that she had a mechanic that he knew.

214 THE COURT:

Sustained.

215 MR. DARDEN:

Did you attempt to match that print to someone you understood to be Miss Brown's mechanic?

216 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to the form of the question, your Honor, leading and suggestive without a further foundation.

217 THE COURT:

Sustained.

218 MR. DARDEN:

Well, you had a list of 58 names, right?

219 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes.

220 MR. DARDEN:

And you don't know who everyone on that list of 58 names is; is that correct?

221 MR. AGUILAR:

Not everyone.

222 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. You don't know whether or not that print no. 13 was left by Miss Brown's mechanic, correct?

223 MR. COCHRAN:

Calls for speculation, your Honor.

224 THE COURT:

Overruled.

225 MR. AGUILAR:

That's correct.

226 MR. DARDEN:

And item no. 14, that is a--well, where on the Ferrari is that print located?

227 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. It was located on the driver's side front window, the window on the door on the driver's side of the vehicle.

228 MR. DARDEN:

Can you tell whether or not that print was left by a right hand or a left hand?

229 MR. AGUILAR:

Can I take a look at the lift?

230 THE COURT:

Mrs. Robertson, did we get a photocopy of that other print card?

231 THE CLERK:

Yes, your Honor.

232 MR. COCHRAN:

Yes.

233 MR. AGUILAR:

On no. 14.

234 MR. DARDEN:

Yes.

235 MR. AGUILAR:

It's just a single print, and I'm unable to determine whether it's a right hand or the left hand.

236 MR. DARDEN:

You don't know where Miss Brown last purchased gasoline, do you?

237 MR. AGUILAR:

No.

238 MR. DARDEN:

You don't know if some homeless person washed the windshield on her car, do you?

239 MR. COCHRAN:

Object. Speculative.

240 THE COURT:

Sustained. Sustained.

241 MR. DARDEN:

At any event, you can't match that fingerprint to anyone in particular; is that right?

242 MR. AGUILAR:

Correct.

243 MR. DARDEN:

And card no. 15, print no. 15, where is that print? Where on the Ferrari is it located?

244 MR. AGUILAR:

Yes. This is on the outside of the driver's door just below the window.

245 MR. DARDEN:

Who left that print?

246 MR. AGUILAR:

I don't know.

247 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to the form. That's speculative, your Honor.

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (5)

Gilbert Aguilar
Never been able to develop an identifiable print.
Aguilar confirms he has never successfully lifted an identifiable fingerprint from a leather glove — the core point Darden needed to undercut the defense's glove-print argument.
Gilbert Aguilar
I never have. I never heard of anybody that has. You can try, but I've never heard of any success.
On lifting prints from cashmere — establishes that a cashmere-lined glove is essentially fingerprint-proof, making absence of prints meaningless.
Gilbert Aguilar
Even if you don't use chemicals, your just wiping it off will destroy a print.
Establishes the catch-22: cleaning blood off gloves to do serology destroys any underlying latent print, making the absence of prints on bloody gloves doubly unremarkable.
Gilbert Aguilar
I've tried to get prints off of over 30 homicide victims and I was unsuccessful in different operations to try it, different chemicals, different procedures.
Demonstrates the breadth of surfaces that don't yield fingerprints — humanizes and expands the technical point beyond just gloves.
Gilbert Aguilar
No. I can not tell you who left that print. It could have been her.
On palm print no. 8 — Aguilar cannot exclude Nicole Brown as the source, which Darden uses to show unidentified prints don't help the defense.

Evidence (8)

Informal
Bloody leather gloves with cashmere lining
discussed — Darden establishes fingerprints cannot be lifted from leather or cashmere
Print no. 5
Latent print lifted from handrail next to front door at Bundy
discussed — established as unidentifiable, cannot exclude Simpson
Print no. 7
Latent print lifted from top of gatepost between front door and back gate at Bundy
discussed — established as unidentifiable, cannot exclude Simpson
Print no. 9
Latent print on railing of outside stairwell, north side of Bundy residence
discussed — established as unidentifiable, cannot exclude Simpson
Print nos. 2 and 3
Identifiable prints near doorknob on front door inside residence
discussed — matched to no one, explained as ordinary for a residence with many visitors
Print no. 8
Identifiable palm print on railing at Bundy
discussed — cannot exclude Nicole Brown; Coroner provided only right palm print card
+ 2 more

Notable Exchanges (4)

Christopher DardenGilbert Aguilar
Darden methodically walks through every surface type relevant to the case — leather gloves, cashmere, stucco, concrete, cloth, human flesh — getting Aguilar to confirm fingerprints cannot reliably be lifted from any of them, systematically dismantling the defense's implication that OJ's absence from the glove prints is meaningful.
strategic
Christopher DardenGilbert Aguilar
Darden establishes that prints 5, 7, and 9 at Bundy are unidentified and that Aguilar cannot say Simpson did not leave them — turning the defense's own fingerprint witness into a neutral or slightly prosecution-favorable witness on unidentified prints.
strategic
Christopher DardenGilbert AguilarJohnnie Cochran
Cochran objects repeatedly to Darden's phrasing on the Ferrari prints (nos. 13-15), particularly when Darden attempts to introduce the idea of a mechanic or suggest the car was locked. Two objections on the mechanic questions are sustained, but the underlying point — prints are unmatched — comes through anyway.
contested
Christopher DardenGilbert Aguilar
Darden elicits that Aguilar cannot exclude Nicole Brown from palm print no. 8 because the Coroner never provided her left palm print — raising the possibility that a victim's own print was misread as an unknown/suspicious print by the defense.
revealing

Light Moments (1)

Christopher Darden
Darden asks if a 'homeless person' washing the Ferrari windshield might have left a print — a colorful hypothetical that draws a sustained objection from Cochran.

Credibility Attacks (1)

⚔ Defense fingerprint argument (implicit)
Neutralization via expert's own admissions
Darden uses Aguilar — a defense witness — to establish that absence of fingerprints on the bloody gloves is scientifically meaningless, since leather gloves and cashmere linings never yield identifiable prints and blood removal would destroy any underlying print anyway.

Objections

22 objections (5 sustained, 14 overruled)
Proceeding 7352 • 247 utterances • Defense witness
Criminal Trial
Department 103
⚖️ Start
📂 AUG 17, 1995 📄 Cross-examination of Gilbert A
AUG 17, 1995 KRT DvH TD