Direct examination of Raymond David Kilduff

📄 Direct examination of Raymond David Kilduff — Wednesday, January 8, 1997

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CIVIL\1997\JAN\8\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-RAYMOND-.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 37 of 57

◀ Direct examination of Jim Merrill Direct examination of Mark Partridge ▶

Witness: Raymond Kilduff
Examiner: Dan Leonard
Called by: Defense • Date: Wednesday, January 8, 1997 • Utterances: 235

Hertz Corporation executive Raymond Kilduff testified via deposition about his encounter with OJ Simpson on the morning of June 13, 1994, at the O'Hare Plaza hotel. He observed Simpson sitting outside the hotel with his hands in his face, appearing very upset and frantic, with a bloody bandage on his left hand. On cross-examination, Petrocelli established that Kilduff barely knew Simpson personally, framing the demeanor observations as those of a near-stranger.

# 1 A:

Raymond David Kilduff, K-i-l-d-u-f-f.

# 2 Q:

And are you employed?

# 3 A:

Yes, I am.

# 4 Q:

Where are you employed?

# 5 A:

The Hertz Corporation.

# 6 Q:

What is your position there?

# 7 A:

Division vice-president, central division sales.

# 8 Q:

Can you explain in general terms what your job entails?

# 9 A:

Yes. It's running the central mid-Atlantic United States corporate accounts, taking care of -- doing a lot of negotiating with the corporate accounts, setting up functions. We bring in, in this particular case, customers from those areas, the big corporate customers, to a golf outing.

# 10 Q:

So one of the functions that you have presently setting up affairs for customers; is that correct?

# 11 A:

That's correct.

# 12 Q:

And was that the case as of June of 1994, did you have the same general responsibilities in your job?

# 13 A:

The same.

# 14 Q:

Directing your attention to June 13, 1994, was there a function that was to take place that day regarding the Hertz Corporation?

# 15 A:

Yes. We had a golf outing in Mission Hills Country Club.

# 16 Q:

Is Mission Hills in the Chicago area?

# 17 A:

Yes, it's about 30 minutes from O'Hare.

# 18 MR. LEONARD:

Over to page 8, line 1. (Reading:) Now, at some point in the morning -- morning of June 13, did you have occasion to see O.J. Simpson?

# 19 A:

Yes, I'd gone to O'Hare to pick him up, yes.

# 20 Q:

And approximately when was it that you saw O.J. Simpson?

# 21 A:

Approximately about 8:30 I think in the morning, somewhere around there, 8:30, 8:40.

# 22 MR. LEONARD:

Over to page 9, line 2. (Reading:) Where was it that you saw -- you first saw O.J. Simpson that morning?

# 23 A:

Sitting outside the O'Hare Plaza on a bench.

# 24 Q:

Now, prior to that occasion on the morning of June 13, 1994, had you ever seen O.J. Simpson before?

# 25 A:

Yes.

# 26 Q:

And on how many occasions had you seen O.J. Simpson?

# 27 A:

Twice.

# 28 Q:

When was the first time prior to June 13, 1994 that you had seen O.J. Simpson?

# 29 A:

At our national sales meeting, about 12 years ago.

# 30 Q:

And where was that meeting?

# 31 A:

In Arizona.

# 32 Q:

Did you spend much time with Mr. Simpson at that national sales meeting in Arizona?

# 33 A:

Yes.

# 34 Q:

And when was the next time that you saw Mr. Simpson prior to June 13, 1994?

# 35 A:

About four, five years ago, in Chicago.

# 36 Q:

And under what circumstances did you see Mr. Simpson four or five years ago in Chicago?

# 37 A:

On -- a customer function on a boat.

# 38 Q:

How much time did you spend with Mr. Simpson during that customer function on the boat? Give us an estimate.

# 39 A:

I had time to talk to him while on the boat and then I walked with him back while we -- while he was walking back to his hotel in Chicago.

# 40 Q:

Now, directing your attention again to the morning of June 13, 1994, where exactly was Mr. Simpson when you first saw him?

# 41 A:

Sitting on the bench.

# 42 Q:

When you say sitting on the bench, what do you mean by that, what bench, where?

# 43 A:

There's a bench that's located right outside the O'Hare Plaza. It sits outside along the sidewalk against a wall. He was sitting out there, with his elbows on his knees.

# 44 Q:

Just so the record is clear and so the court and jury understand your testimony, what is the O'Hare Plaza?

# 45 A:

It's a hotel where we had -- we were putting up our customers. Actually, we had customers in the night before, and the night -- then, after the golf tournament, they would stay in the hotel also, and O.J. would stay in there.

# 46 Q:

Is that a hotel somewhere in the vicinity of O'Hare airport?

# 47 A:

About 10 or 12 minutes from O'Hare.

# 48 Q:

How did you happen to see O.J. Simpson? What were you doing when you first saw him? Where were you? What were you doing?

# 49 A:

I was bringing two customers and my boss, John Johnson, back from O'Hare. I picked them up, and was dropping them off, taking them to get ready to go play golf.

# 50 Q:

And so you were actually driving the car?

# 51 A:

Yes.

# 52 Q:

And you were pulling into the front of the hotel?

# 53 A:

Correct.

# 54 Q:

Tell me what was the weather like that day with regard to whether it was sunny, cloudy, raining, whatever?

# 55 A:

Bright, sunny day.

# 56 Q:

And again, what time was it, approximately?

# 57 A:

About 8:30, 8:40, something like that.

# 58 Q:

Did you actually pull the car up and at some point step out of your car?

# 59 A:

Yes.

# 60 Q:

And after that, what did you do?

# 61 A:

I ran over because I saw O.J. there. I didn't think he should be there because I thought he was going to be asleep, wondering what he was doing there, and went to introduce myself.

# 62 Q:

As you first pulled up in the car, can you describe how Mr. Simpson looked with regard to when he was sitting there, what was -- what his demeanor was, how he was -- what his position was, his body position, and so forth?

# 63 A:

He had his hands in his face like this (indicating).

# 64 Q:

Anything else about his demeanor that you recall as you were pulling up?

# 65 A:

As I was pulling up, no. Just that he -- that he was sitting out there with his hands in his face.

# 66 Q:

Now, you say you left the car and you approached Mr. Simpson?

# 67 A:

Yes, I did.

# 68 Q:

What happened next?

# 69 A:

I introduced myself, asked him if he remembered me, told him I was from the Hertz Corporation. He then asked me -- he said, I need to go back to the airport, I got to get back to the airport. About the same time, my boss gets out.

# 70 Q:

Okay. Without --

# 71 MR. LEONARD:

Over to page 13 -- page 14, line 13. (Reading:) Without reference to at this point what Mr. Simpson said, what did you do next after you left the vehicle trying to --

# 72 A:

Went and introduced myself to O.J.

# 73 Q:

Now, at that point, can you describe Mr. Simpson's demeanor?

# 74 A:

Upset.

# 75 Q:

How did you know he was upset? What was it about his demeanor that caused you to believe that he was upset?

# 76 A:

The way he -- I mean, that was not the only time he put his hands in his face. A lot of his gestures and what he said.

# 77 Q:

And again, what did he say as you approached him? Did he say something at that point?

# 78 A:

Once I introduced myself, then --

# 79 Q:

What did he say?

# 80 A:

He would like to go to the airport.

# 81 Q:

What happened after that?

# 82 A:

Then my boss gets out of the car.

# 83 Q:

Did your boss say something to Mr. Simpson?

# 84 A:

Yes.

# 85 Q:

What did he say?

# 86 A:

Juice -- I can't remember the exact terminology, but I asked him what was going on.

# 87 Q:

And did Mr. Simpson make any response?

# 88 A:

Yes.

# 89 Q:

What was his response?

# 90 A:

He said, "Something terrible has happened, and I need to get back immediately to L.

# 91 Q:

And you were able to observe Mr. Simpson as he made this response?

# 92 A:

Yes.

# 93 Q:

And tell me, what was his demeanor when he made the response?

# 94 A:

Very upset, very frantic.

# 95 Q:

What happened next after that? Again, I say "what happened next." I want you to tell me what you did and what you observed, at least at this point, as opposed to what anyone said to you or you overheard being said?

# 96 A:

At that point, he opened his duffel to get his airline ticket.

# 97 Q:

Okay.

# 98 A:

Okay. And he got out the airline ticket because I asked him what flight he was on and -- what flight and the whole bit, to get him back, and what time was his flight.

# 99 Q:

You were standing right next to Mr. Simpson, were you not, when he opened his duffel?

# 100 A:

He was against the wall, and I was right directly -- right over him, right over the top of him.

# 101 Q:

And you were in a position to see into the duffel bag; is that correct?

# 102 A:

Yes.

# 103 Q:

Did Mr. Simpson make any attempt to try to conceal the contents of the duffel bag?

# 104 A:

No, he didn't try, no. Just getting his airline ticket out.

# 105 Q:

Do you recall each and every item that you saw in the duffel bag?

# 106 A:

No.

# 107 Q:

Do you recall seeing items in the duffel?

# 108 A:

Yes.

# 109 Q:

What do you recall seeing?

# 110 A:

My overall recollection of -- nothing specific -- is that it was fairly, almost, I thought, very empty.

# 111 Q:

But again, there were some items in there?

# 112 A:

Yes.

# 113 Q:

Describe to me exactly where you were standing in relation to Mr. Simpson when he opened the duffel, please.

# 114 A:

O.J. was sitting with his back against the wall, leaning over, opening the duffel bag. I was on the other side, just on the other side of the wall -- not of the wall, but of the bag. So O.J. was on this side, the bag, then me. So I was on the exact opposite side, looking in.

# 115 Q:

Without reference to what was said, did you or Mr. Simpson have any type of verbal exchange at this point when he opened his bag and was looking in his bag? We don't want to know the contents of it; but were words exchanged?

# 116 A:

Yes.

# 117 Q:

Did Mr. Simpson direct the comments to you at that point?

# 118 A:

Yes.

# 119 Q:

Did you make any response to him?

# 120 A:

Yes.

# 121 Q:

What did he say to you?

# 122 A:

A lot of it was in reference -- well, he's doing that; we're talking about getting to the airline, you know, the flight, the time, and that type of thing. While opening the bag, that was going on.

# 123 Q:

Describe for me Mr. Simpson's demeanor as he made the statements to you when he opened the bag and was going through the bag.

# 124 A:

He was very upset.

# 125 Q:

Did you notice anything unusual about Mr. Sim -- Mr. Simpson's hand at any point that morning?

# 126 A:

Yes, I did.

# 127 Q:

What, if anything, did you notice about Mr. -- Mr. Simpson's hand that morning?

# 128 A:

That it was cut and he had a bandage on it.

# 129 Q:

Do you recall now which hand, which finger?

# 130 A:

I believe it was the left hand, either the middle or ring finger.

# 131 Q:

When did you first notice that?

# 132 A:

I walked up. When I shook his hand, his right hand, I looked, and where I was sitting was in the sunshine; I could see this band-aid, and I could see a lot of blood. So it was kind of startling, because it was very bloody.

# 133 Q:

After Mr. Simpson went into his bag and there was some exchange about that, what happened next?

# 134 A:

He told me his flight and the time. And then I told him that we need to get going because we can make it -- I could get him there on time.

# 135 Q:

What happened after that, again trying to answer the question without reference to anything that was said by you or Mr. Simpson, at least at this juncture?

# 136 A:

At that point, then I walked around and unloaded the baggage from the other guys at that point.

# 137 Q:

When you say "the other guys," you're talking about the customers you had just brought in from O'Hare?

# 138 A:

Two customers and my boss, right.

# 139 Q:

And after you did that, what did you do next?

# 140 A:

I then took O.J.'s stuff.

# 141 Q:

Okay.

# 142 A:

I took his suiter and his duffel and put it on -- put it in the back of my Explorer.

# 143 Q:

And what happened after that?

# 144 A:

There was some exchange between O.J. and John, and then I got into the car and O.J. got into the car.

# 145 Q:

Can you tell us what the exchange was between Mr. Simpson -- and when you say "John," that's your boss?

# 146 A:

John Johnson, right, my boss.

# 147 Q:

Tell us what that exchange was.

# 148 A:

It was in reference to -- O.J. wanted to make sure his golf clubs got back. Jim had them -- our sales rep, Jim Merrill, had those. That something terrible had happened in Los Angeles, and that they would hear about it in -- on the news, or something like that.

# 149 Q:

And again, during that exchange, what was Mr. Simpson's demeanor?

# 150 A:

In a hurry, upset.

# 151 Q:

What happened next?

# 152 A:

O.J. gets in the car, I get in the car, and we take off to O'Hare.

# 153 Q:

Approximately how long did it take you to drive to O'Hare?

# 154 A:

About 10, 12 minutes.

# 155 Q:

And during the ride to O'Hare, can you describe Mr. Simpson's demeanor?

# 156 A:

Upset.

# 157 Q:

Did you hear Mr. Simpson say anything during the ride?

# 158 A:

Yes.

# 159 Q:

Did you hear anything else coming from him other than words during the ride, if you recall?

# 160 A:

Moaning.

# 161 Q:

What did Mr. Simpson say?

# 162 A:

He said, "Oh, my God, this is horrible." And, you know, he would go -- put his head back, and just, "Oh, my God, this is really bad."

# 163 Q:

Ultimately, you arrived at the airport?

# 164 A:

Yes.

# 165 Q:

And what happened at that point when you arrived?

# 166 A:

At that point, we arrived, I instruct O.J. on where to go; I inform him. I'm trying to reassure him he can make it, it's not a problem, because I've done it myself a number of times. I opened the back window, get his luggage, hand it to him, and observe him as he leaves.

# 167 Q:

What, if anything, did you recall -- do you recall observing as he was entering the airport?

# 168 A:

There was a man standing on the curb, because I pulled up by the curb right there, who recognized him and said, hey, O.J., and O.J. kept -- just kept going.

# 169 Q:

How would you describe how quickly Mr. Simpson entered the airport?

# 170 A:

He was walking quickly.

# 171 MR. LEONARD:

Nothing further. (Selected portions of the deposition of Raymond David Kilduff were read by counsel, Mr. Petrocelli reading the questions, and Mr. P. Baker reading the answers.)

# 172 MR. PETROCELLI:

Page 27, line 15.

# 173 Q:

You were asked a number of questions by Mr. Leonard about Mr. Simpson's demeanor on the 13th of June when you observed him initially, when you arrived at O'Hare Plaza leading up to and ending at the time you dropped him off the at airport, right?

# 174 A:

Yes.

# 175 Q:

Do you recall telling Mr. Leonard afterwards in your testimony that Mr. Simpson was upset?

# 176 A:

Uh-huh.

# 177 Q:

Mr. Simpson was frantic. Do you recall that?

# 178 A:

Yes.

# 179 Q:

When you saw Mr. Simpson and said he was upset, you saw him take his hand (sic) and actually put them in his hands, right?

# 180 A:

Yes.

# 181 Q:

That was one of the reasons you thought he was upset, right?

# 182 A:

One of them, yes.

# 183 Q:

In other words, it was an obvious gesture of a person who would appear to be upset, correct?

# 184 A:

Correct.

# 185 Q:

And you said that in the car, on the way to the airport, you saw Mr. Simpson say things, or heard Mr. Simpson say things like, "Oh, my God, what a terrible, terrible thing; this is really bad." Correct?

# 186 A:

Right.

# 187 Q:

And you said you saw him put his hands in the front of his face and then thrust his head back, obviously indicating he was upset, correct?

# 188 A:

Yes.

# 189 Q:

You had never seen Mr. Simpson upset before in your life, correct?

KEY QUOTE

# 190 A:

Correct.

# 191 Q:

And you didn't know Mr. Simpson before June 13 on a personal level, correct?

# 192 A:

Correct.

# 193 Q:

You had very limited interaction with him in connection with your work for Hertz, right?

# 194 A:

Correct.

# 195 Q:

You were not a friend of his, right?

# 196 A:

Correct.

# 197 Q:

You'd never been to his house, right?

# 198 A:

Correct.

# 199 Q:

He'd never been to your house?

# 200 A:

Correct.

# 201 Q:

Never had dinner with him?

# 202 A:

That's not true.

# 203 Q:

You never had dinner, a small group, with him, correct?

# 204 A:

Correct.

# 205 Q:

Never went out alone with him anywhere, right, just the two of you?

# 206 A:

Correct.

# 207 Q:

Never had phone conversations, right?

# 208 A:

Correct.

# 209 Q:

You were not friends, right?

# 210 A:

Correct.

# 211 Q:

And he never confided in you about his personal feelings about anything, right, prior to June 13?

# 212 A:

I'm not sure how to answer that.

# 213 Q:

In other words, you weren't a person he would pick up the phone and talk to about personal things, right?

# 214 A:

That's correct.

# 215 Q:

And you had no idea what was going on in his life at any time, right?

# 216 A:

Right.

# 217 Q:

Including on June 13, right?

# 218 A:

Correct.

# 219 MR. PETROCELLI:

Okay. Skip over to page 35, line 19.

MR. P. BAKER: Okay. (Reading continued:)

# 220 Q:

Now, when you pulled up to O'Hare Plaza on the morning of June 13 and got out of the car, you said you approached Mr. Simpson, right?

# 221 A:

That's right.

# 222 Q:

And you said that you introduced yourself to him, right?

# 223 A:

Right.

# 224 Q:

The reason you introduced yourself to Mr. Simpson was because you were not sure he would remember who you were, right?

# 225 A:

That's correct.

# 226 Q:

Because the two of you didn't know each other very well?

# 227 A:

That's right.

# 228 MR. PETROCELLI:

That's it, Your Honor.

# 229 MR. LEONARD:

Nothing further.

# 230 MR. PETROCELLI:

Next one is a little bit longer. Maybe it's --

# 231 MR. LEONARD:

It's -- direct is what, 15 minutes?

# 232 THE COURT:

Okay. Go 15 minutes.

# 233 MR. LEONARD:

This the deposition of Mark Partridge, taken on May 29 at Chicago. Again. It's Mr. Petrocelli and myself. These are questions by me. (As direct examination of Mr. Partridge, select poritons of the transcript are read with Mr. Leonard reading the questions, and Mr. P. Baker reading the answers.)

# 234 MR. LEONARD:

Over on page 5, line 15.

MR. P. BAKER: Got it. (Reading:)

# 235 Q:

Good morning, Mr. Partridge.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (4)

Kilduff

He said, 'Something terrible has happened, and I need to get back immediately to L.A.'

Simpson's spontaneous statement to a near-stranger establishing his awareness of the murders before news broke publicly

Kilduff

I could see this band-aid, and I could see a lot of blood. So it was kind of startling, because it was very bloody.

Direct eyewitness account of Simpson's injured left hand on the morning after the murders

Kilduff

He said, 'Oh, my God, this is horrible.' And, you know, he would go -- put his head back, and just, 'Oh, my God, this is really bad.'

Depicts Simpson's emotional state during the drive to O'Hare — agitated, moaning, highly distressed

Petrocelli

You had never seen Mr. Simpson upset before in your life, correct? ... And you didn't know Mr. Simpson before June 13 on a personal level, correct?

Petrocelli undermines the weight of the demeanor testimony by establishing Kilduff had no baseline for Simpson's emotional behavior

Evidence (3)

Informal

OJ Simpson's duffel bag, observed open at O'Hare Plaza — recalled as 'almost very empty'

discussed

Informal

Bloody bandage on Simpson's left hand, middle or ring finger

discussed

Informal

Simpson's airline ticket, retrieved from duffel bag

discussed

Notable Exchanges (2)

Petrocelli•Kilduff

Petrocelli's cross methodically established that Kilduff and Simpson barely knew each other — never dined alone, never had personal phone calls, Simpson never confided in him — to minimize the value of Kilduff's demeanor interpretations.

strategic

Kilduff•Simpson

When Kilduff introduced himself, Simpson immediately said he needed to get to the airport because 'something terrible has happened,' then opened his duffel bag in full view of Kilduff while discussing his flight.

revealing

Credibility Attacks (1)

⚔ Kilduff

bias/relationship minimization

Petrocelli established through rapid yes/no questioning that Kilduff barely knew Simpson — never dinner alone, no personal calls, not a friend — to argue Kilduff lacked any basis to meaningfully interpret Simpson's emotional demeanor as guilt-indicating rather than grief-indicating

Witness Demeanor

(Witness indicating) — demonstrating Simpson's posture with hands in face

Deposition read into record by counsel; no live witness stage directions

Objections

None recorded

Proceeding 8762 • 235 utterances • Defense witness

Civil Trial

Department 103