You've been previously sworn. You are still under oath. Would you state your name again for the record.

My name is Dennis Fung. DIRECT EXAMINATION BY

Good morning.

Morning.

As I recall, Mr. Blasier examined you, and Mr. Blasier has had some major surgery and it's doubtful he will return to the trial. I want to go back to the -- to the trash bag that you indicated you left Rockingham with Mr. Simpson's reference vial in it. Remember that?

Yes.

What else did you have in the trash bag besides Mr. Simpson's reference vial?

Asked and answered.

Do we have a copy of his testimony?

I only have one copy.

Cite me a page.

Apparently I don't have a page cite. And I -- if you want me to find a section I'll find it for you. It will take me a couple of minutes. I think you would remember. This was a subject of lengthy cross-examination.

This has been a long trial.

True.

I can't remember every word that is spoken by counsel.

The objection will take longer than the testimony, Your Honor.

I imagine so.

Page -- November 5, page 63.

Got about three questions on this, Your Honor.

Well, I'll withdraw it, Your Honor. Let him answer it again.

Go ahead.

(BY MR. BAKER) Did you have trash in the trash bag?

There may have been crime scene labels in there, but I don't think there was any trash in there, no.

Well, you picked up the numbers that you placed down on the concrete and you put them in that trash bag, didn't you?

I don't specifically recall doing that. They may have been in there, but I don't recall.

You went into the house, this is on the afternoon of the 13, you came out of the house and were going to leave before Vannatter arrived at the house, and then suggested to Andrea Mazzola that she go back in and take one more quick look around; isn't that true?

Yes.

And Vannatter wasn't there when you started to leave the house, isn't that correct, the first time? And then you --

When we brought --

You made the decision to go back in to see -- check to see if there was something else, correct?

We brought the crime scene kit and some items of evidence out to the truck and then went back in for a second look, yes.

And you picked up the little numbers that you had on the driveway, you threw those numbers in the trash bag as trash with the reference vial of Mr. Simpson's blood, right?

That's possible, but I don't recall if that actually happened or not.

Well, let me ask you this: When you didn't have the trash bag to carry around sterile reference vials of blood, did you -- the trash bag was there so that you could put trash in it when you left Mr. Simpson's home; isn't that true?

Objection, that has been -- the purpose in using the trash bag was specifically gone into, Your Honor.

You may answer.

(BY MR. BAKER) Well, the numbers were trash after you used them, weren't they, on the driveway and in the foyer?

I don't consider it trash, no.

Okay. They are valuable pieces of paper, right?

I don't know how valuable they are, but they are not trash.

Well, in any event, all of the blood spots -- and you put those little pieces of paper around in the foyer, were perfectly round, correct? I mean they didn't look like Mr. Simpson, Allan Park, Kato Kaelin, didn't look like anybody had stepped in it, true?

Now, which drops are you talking about?

In the foyer when you had your little numbers. And you collected those at 4:30, remember, Item 12?

They did not appear to have been stepped in.

And you collected the foyer blood drops at 4:30, and -- it was at 4:40. Then you were up in Mr. Simpson's bedroom where you collected Item 13 which were the socks, right?

It was around that time. Those are relative times.

Well, you didn't put relative times on your log. You put the times that item and event occurred; isn't that true?

So they are all just ballpark figures now that there's been a big issue as to whether or not the socks were there when the videotape -- these numbers have become ballpark figures; is that what it is, Mr. Fung?

Objection, argumentative.

Sustained.

(BY MR. BAKER) Your log is supposed to show the times that you do various things when you're at a crime scene; isn't that true, sir?

Objection, argumentative, asked and answered.

Sustained.

(BY MR. BAKER) Well, what's the purpose of putting down the time if it's a ballpark figure, Mr. Fung?

Same objections, Your Honor.

Overruled.

I do not use those or that column in the crime scene sheet when I do my crime scenes unless it -- it is outside the parameters of when I got there and when I left. Ms. Mazzola decided that she was going to write down those times and she went ahead and filled in those times.

Well, do you think that these forms that you're using at a crime scene, it's kind of your decision as to whether or not you should use them or fill in the appropriate blanks?

Objection, argumentative, in violation of the Court's pretrial orders, Your Honor, in limine order No. 11.

Sustained.

(BY MR. BAKER) The times that are down on the sheets that you and Ms. Mazzola filled out at the crime scene at Rockingham indicate the times that you accomplished various tasks; you would agree with that?

As I stated before, those are pretty close to the times that they happen, but they are ballpark figures.

Pretty close to the time things happened, you wouldn't put down that you collected the red blood stain or red stain in the foyer, this perfectly round blood stain in the foyer, at 1630, if in fact it was 1610, would you? You wouldn't be off 20 minutes, would you?

I would say they were within 10 minutes.

Just happened to be 10 minutes?

Well --

You know the issue relative to the socks, don't you?

Objection, argumentative, Your Honor.

Sustained.

(BY MR. BAKER) Are you trying to tailor your testimony relative to the collection of the socks in the bedroom, Mr. Fung?

No.

Objection, argumentative.

Overruled.

No, I'm not.

(BY MR. BAKER) Now, you knew that in the bedroom -- by the way, did it look like, on the bed, right in front of the socks, did it appear that anybody had sat down on that bed and had taken those socks off?

I don't recall.

Well, do you recall there was a piece of luggage there, that you couldn't even sit down on the bed to take the socks off that were sitting so perfectly on that little throw rug?

I don't recall that, no.

Do you recall whether the straps were up and down -- up or down on the luggage, Mr. Fung, when you were in the room?

I'd have to refer to the photographs.

Do you recall that Sergeant Luper picked the straps up when he was looking for items underneath the -- underneath the bed?

I do not remember Sergeant Luper picking those up.

Do you remember him getting under the bed to look for items, right?

I don't recall that.

Do you recall that there was any evidence of blood whatsoever on that throw rug in the middle of the area right behind Mr. Simpson's bed?

I did not -- I did not detect any blood on that throw rug.

You didn't detect any blood in the area, did you, in the bedroom at all, did you?

No, none was detected.

Now, you testified in this courtroom on November 5 that item number 12 was collected at 4:30. You didn't say ballpark then, did you?

I was referring to the -- to my notes and that's what the notes say.

And when you testified that item number 13 was collected at 4:40, you didn't say ballpark then, did you?

I think I said they were approximate times. I --

Well, let me read what you said so that you have it.

Let's have the page and line.

51, line 7 through 11.

4:30, correct? Your answer: Correct.

And item number 14 was at what time? Item 14 was at 4:40. That's your answer. You didn't mention ballpark then, did you, sir?

Apparently not.

Now, in terms of your collection of these socks, you then picked the socks up and put both socks in one container, cross-contaminating the socks, correct?

Argumentative, asked and answered.

Sustained.

Do you want to play that video. Then we'll --

Like to know what it is before --

MR. P. BAKER: Number 901.

It's already been played.

MR. P. BAKER: It was not in evidence when Mr. Fung testified the first time.

Okay. Overruled. (Videotape played.)

(BY MR. BAKER) Now, you --

Stop it. Back it up, please. (Tape is halted with view of bed.)

(BY MR. BAKER) That strap had been picked up by Sergeant Luper, had it not?

Asked and answered, Your Honor. He just said he didn't see that.

You may answer if you know.

I don't know.

All right. Go ahead.

(BY MR. BAKER) Now --

Back it up.

MR. P. BAKER: I'm sorry. I apologize.

(BY MR. BAKER) There's a fireplace --

Stop it right there. That obliterates what I wanted to see (indicating to screen.)

(BY MR. BAKER) This fireplace is at the end of Mr. Simpson's bed, is it not?

Yes.

In other words, if you're lying on the bed with your head back up against the headboard, you'd look at that fireplace, correct?

It was at that time, yes.

Okay. And then this is the throw rug down here (indicating to Elmo screen). That is kind of a pale beige, is it not, sir?

There's a print pattern on it.

A light color, it's pale, is it not, there's not any dark colors on it?

There's -- no, just some portions are darker than others. There's a pattern on it.

There's no blood whatsoever on that throw rug, correct?

I did not detect it.

And it was never collected by you or anybody from the LAPD to see if there was blood that had allegedly transferred from these found socks to that rug, isn't that true, sir?

Objection, violates in limine order No. 11.

Sustained.

I didn't hear your ruling, sir.

Sustained.

(BY MR. BAKER) You didn't ask that that carpet be picked up and collected, did you, sir?

Same objection, Your Honor.

Sustained.

(BY MR. BAKER) Now, did you just pick the socks up with your hands, sir?

No.

What did you pick them up with?

I don't recall exactly how I did it. I may have used the gloves; I may have used the scoop method.

You don't have a recollection if you picked them up with your hands or not, isn't that true?

No, I know I didn't.

Now, you do recall that you took the Rockingham glove to the Bundy crime scene at the direction of Detective Lange, correct?

Objection, asked and answered.

Sustained.

(BY MR. BAKER) You walked into the crime scene with a brown bag with the Rockingham glove pursuant to orders from Detective Lange, did you not?

Objection, asked and answered. It's all been gone into.

I don't recall that one. Overruled.

Can you repeat that?

(BY MR. BAKER) You took the Rockingham glove, the glove that was purportedly found on this little side pathway behind Mr. Simpson's house, and took that glove at the direction of Detective Lange and you took it over to Bundy in a brown paper bag and took it onto the crime scene, correct?

Yes.

Show that tape, please. (Videotape played.)

Is there a question?

(BY MR. BAKER) Is this you?

That is me.

And is that the brown paper bag containing the Rockingham glove that you were requested to bring onto the crime scene by Lange?

I don't recall if that was it or not. It may have been but I don't know. (Tape played to 1:18:18.24)

(BY MR. BAKER) One other area. And I apologize for skipping around. When you --

Phil, you can cut that off. (Mr. P. Baker complies.)

(BY MR. BAKER) When you collected the socks, no matter whether you did it with your hands, your gloved hands or the scoop method, there was no debris on those socks, were there?

I did not detect any debris on it. But I didn't look for it, either, that closely.

You didn't look, right?

Not that closely.

Well, you picked the socks up, and in however method you did it --

It's wonderful when they pass you a note and you can't read what it says (indicating). I know it's my son's writing. I just can't read it.

It says no further questions.

Is that "sit down?" (Laughter.)

(BY MR. BAKER) Now, you had the socks and you had to have them in a scoop or in the -- and the bag open to put the socks in, right?

Correct.

So you had them within a couple of feet of your eyes, true?

No, at least arm's distance.

And you didn't notice any dirt, any soil, any blood, nothing, correct?

Those were collected so that that could be done at a later time back at the lab.

Maybe you didn't understand my question, sir. You're a criminalist, are you not?

Yes, I am.

You're not paid to close your eyes and not see things, are you?

No.

And when you're at a crime scene and there's been a double homicide, I take it that you're extremely vigilant about looking for everything that may be evidence in the case, true?

That's correct.

And your vigilance, if you will, is heightened because you know this is a high-profile crime and you knew it on June 13, 1994, when you picked up the socks in the bedroom at 4:40; isn't that true?

Argumentative, Your Honor, gone into before.

Sustained.

(BY MR. BAKER) You didn't see any soil, no debris, no blood, no nothing on those socks?

Asked and answered, Your Honor.

You may answer.

They were dark socks, and I --

(BY MR. BAKER) What did you see? Did you see any soil, debris, blood, sir?

I did not detect any, no.

Now, did you -- in your view, in looking at the gloves, did you determine where the cuts were on those gloves, if any?

We were -- we're talking about the gloves now?

Yes, the gloves. Yes, sir. I switched to the gloves. Sorry.

I did note when I got back to the laboratory some -- some cuts on them.

Now, the left-handed glove was the glove that was found near the hat which was underneath the railing of the fence, right?

Referring to my notes.

Please do. (Witness reviews notebook.)

The glove from Bundy was a left-handed glove, yes.

How many cuts were on the glove from Bundy, Mr. Fung?

I didn't make a note of that.

Did you make a note of any cuts on the gloves?

I know at the -- a day or so after -- a day after the -- I had collected them, they were asking if -- to describe different -- the different gloves. I did it telephonically and I -- but I didn't write it down.

Well, was there a cut on the top of the fourth finger of the left glove?

I'd have to see photographs of the glove. I don't recall.

Let me show you.

MR. P. BAKER: Next in order. Two numbers.

2309. (The instrument herein described as a photograph of glove was marked for identification as Defendants' Exhibit No. 2309.) (The instrument herein described as a photograph of glove was marked for identification as Defendants' Exhibit No. 2310.)

MR. P. BAKER: Okay.

Not really.

Right there.

Yes, I do see that.

And that cut does not go through the lining of the glove, does it?

Actually, from what I recall, there was a rock that was -- a piece of rock or something that was stuck in the glove, like someone had hit it, the glove -- was wearing the glove, hit it real hard, and a piece of concrete or something from a wall had embedded into the finger.

You want to get the --

(BY MR. BAKER) Whatever happened to the rock?

It was with the glove when I booked it. I don't know.

And it just kind of -- like the lens, it's just kind of gone?

Objection, argumentative.

Sustained.

Do you want to put that on the Elmo. (Exhibit 2311 displayed on Elmo.)

Now, does that look like a rock to you or does that look like a cut?

There's a damaged area on the finger that -- there you go.

That area?

This area here could be -- could be that rock that I remember.

Well, that's exactly the same area I pointed to on the other two exhibits, isn't it, sir?

Yes, it is.

And you're telling me that's not a cut?

Well, there's an area of damage on there. I don't know if it's a cut or if it was caused by a rip.

Now, are you telling this jury that there was a rock in that exact area, and you have a recollection of that when you collected the Bundy glove on June 13, 1994?

Yes.

And you didn't see the damaged area because a rock was on it; is that what you're telling this jury?

I'm telling you that damaged area was where a rock was.

And you couldn't see the damaged area because there was a rock on top of it; is that your testimony, sir?

I'm saying it was embedded in that damaged area.

So it was embedded in the damaged area?

Yes.

And you couldn't see the light-colored lining through the damaged area; is that your testimony, sir?

I don't recall seeing the lining. I -- I believe I left the rock in the glove.

Now, when you collected that glove at Bundy, the glove was with the palm up, correct? In other words, that portion of the fourth finger would have been down in the dirt area at the crime scene next to the sidewalk, correct, or walkway?

I don't recall if the palm was up or the back hand was up.

Does that look like that could be a -- a bite mark from possibly a dog?

Objection, calls for speculation.

Sustained.

(BY MR. BAKER) Did you ever look at Mark Fuhrman's notes where he noted that the area was possibly a dog -- a bite mark, that the suspect was possibly bitten by a dog? Did you look at those notes?

Objection, hearsay.

Sustained.

Asked if he looked; doesn't call for hearsay.

I sustained it.

Ask that the question be stricken, too, Your Honor.

Stricken.

(BY MR. BAKER) In doing your work as a criminalist, did you look at any of the detectives' notes that were at the crime scene on June 13, 1994, Lange, Fuhrman or anybody else?

You don't know whether Fuhrman's notes indicate that the witness was -- that the suspect may possibly have been bitten by a dog because of that bite mark?

Same objection. Ask that the question be stricken.

Sustained. Stricken.

(BY MR. BAKER) And if --

You said that's the knuckle area?

Yes.

That's a cut in the glove?

No, that's not his testimony.

No, I'm sorry --

(BY MR. BAKER) I'm sorry?

It's this area here that I was talking about, and this very well could be a -- I was mistaken.

THE COURT: Okay. Ladies and gentlemen, take ten. Don't talk about the case; don't form or express any opinions. (Recess.) (Jurors resume their respective seats.)

Would you put that up?

(BY MR. BAKER) This is the area we've determined was a damaged area, correct?