Redirect examination of unknown witness (part 1)

📄 Redirect examination of unknown witness (part 1) — Thursday, July 7, 1994

Address:

C:\DEPT103\PRELIMINARY\1994\JUL\7\REDIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-UNKNOW.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 5 of 6

◀ Cross-examination of unknown witness Re-redirect examination of unknown witness ▶

Witness: Witness
Examiner: Robert Shapiro
Called by: Defense • Date: Thursday, July 7, 1994 • Utterances: 146

Marcia Clark redirects the lead detective (likely Tom Lange) to rehabilitate his testimony after cross-examination raised doubts about the investigation's thoroughness and the integrity of the Bundy crime scene. Clark walks the detective through standard homicide procedures — crime scene security, paramedic protocols, the coroner's investigator's arrival — to establish that nothing improper occurred at 875 S. Bundy. She also re-explains the decision to prioritize the Rockingham address by framing Bundy as secured and Rockingham as an unsecured scene with a vehicle potentially about to be moved.

# 1 THE COURT:

Thank you. Ms. Clark, do you have any redirect?

# 2 MS. CLARK:

Yes, thank you, Your Honor.

# 3

REDIRECT EXAMINATION

# 4

BY MS. CLARK:

# 5 Q:

Sir, do you have other detectives assisting you on this case besides detective Vannatter?

# 6 A:

Yes.

# 7 Q:

And is it fairly common in the homicide special section to have other detectives in the unit assist in the investigation of one team of detectives?

# 8 A:

Yes.

# 9 Q:

And are you aware at this time of every piece of work or report that each of those detectives have generated?

# 10 A:

No.

# 11 Q:

Would you say that this investigation is in -- is an ongoing one, with reports being generated every day?

# 12 A:

Yes.

# 13 Q:

As time goes by, do you expect to catch up with the reports that have been generated in this case?

# 14 A:

I hope so.

# 15 Q:

And to read everything that you have?

# 16 A:

Yes.

# 17 Q:

And to confer with all of the experts in the case?

# 18 A:

Yes.

# 19 Q:

With respect to the criminalist, sir, at this time the shoe prints have been preserved with respect to the blood and the swabbing and the photographing; is that correct?

# 20 A:

Yes.

# 21 Q:

Has there been any attempt to analyze those shoe prints any further at this point by that criminalist?

# 22 A:

I don't believe so.

# 23 Q:

Is it your intention to have that done?

# 24 A:

Yes.

# 25 Q:

Are there many things that you intend to have done in this case before it proceeds to trial?

# 26 A:

Yes.

# 27 MR. SHAPIRO:

Your Honor, I'm going to object to the form of the question. It assumes a fact that the court is going to hopefully determine.

# 28 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 29 MR. SHAPIRO:

Motion to strike the answer.

# 30 THE COURT:

Stricken.

# 31 MS. CLARK:

All I meant -- I'm sorry.

# 32

BY MS. CLARK:

# 33 Q:

All I meant by that was as the case goes on, there's going to be many things for you to do, assuming the case goes on?

# 34 MR. SHAPIRO:

Your Honor, we have a man who's in custody without bail, and I think that's a very improper question and is very prejudicial.

KEY QUOTE

# 35 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 36

BY MS. CLARK:

# 37 Q:

Let me ask you this, sir. In the course of every case that you have handled -- and you indicated you've handled 2- to 300 homicides?

# 38 A:

Yes.

# 39 Q:

-- is the investigation always ongoing?

# 40 A:

Yes.

# 41 Q:

And at the stage of a preliminary hearing for every one of those homicides, is the investigation an ongoing thing?

# 42 A:

Yes.

# 43 Q:

With many things left to do at the stage of the preliminary hearing?

# 44 A:

Yes.

# 45 Q:

And this case is no exception.

# 46 A:

That's correct.

# 47 Q:

Is it unusual to get leads regarding multiple suspects during an investigation, sir?

# 48 A:

No.

# 49 Q:

In fact, during the course of an entire case?

# 50 A:

No.

# 51 Q:

And if you don't personally go out to investigate those leads, you do assign those leads to be investigated by someone.

# 52 A:

Yes.

# 53 Q:

You were asked by counsel why you didn't look for other similar homicides.

# 54 A:

I believe it was something like that, yes.

# 55 Q:

And you indicated you did not.

# 56 A:

Yes.

# 57 Q:

Why?

# 58 A:

Well, again, we're in the early, early stages in this investigation. At this particular point, this would not be an appropriate time to do it. There is a suspect in custody and we are proceeding against that particular suspect. Eventually, this is probably something that very possibly could be done or it may not be done.

# 59 Q:

And when we say "similar homicides," did you understand that to mean like a serial killing?

# 60 A:

I didn't know exactly what he was referring to.

# 61 Q:

Sir, is it common in an investigation, particularly with respect to a homicide, to have neighbors in the immediate vicinity contacted by police officers to determine what, if anything, they saw or heard?

# 62 A:

Yes.

# 63 Q:

Was that done in this case?

# 64 A:

Yes.

# 65 Q:

And although -- did you direct that it be done?

# 66 A:

Yes.

# 67 Q:

Now, you indicated that in the log a captain of the Fire Department did show up on the scene and it was indicated in your log that he was not needed. Is that correct?

# 68 A:

Yes.

# 69 Q:

Does it indicate in your log how long he was at the scene?

# 70 A:

If I could consult the log.

# 71 Q:

Certainly.

# 72 A:

The log indicates he was at the scene for five minutes.

# 73 Q:

Five minutes.

# 74 A:

Yes.

# 75 Q:

In your experience, sir, is it common for captains of the Fire Department to interact with the bodies of homicide victims?

# 76 A:

It would depend. Possibly. Perhaps not.

# 77 Q:

The fact that he was shown to be there only five minutes with an indication that he was not needed, what did that mean to you?

# 78 MR. SHAPIRO:

Objection; calls for speculation.

# 79 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 80 WITNESS:

Told me it would mean that he was aware that the incident had occurred and he was dropping by as the supervisor to see if the fire department's assistance might be needed for anything.

# 81

BY MS. CLARK:

# 82 Q:

Did it indicate to you that he had had any interaction with the bodies of the victims?

# 83 A:

No.

# 84 Q:

did it indicated to you that it did not? Did that indicate to you that he did not have any interaction with the bodies of the victims?

# 85 MR. SHAPIRO:

Objection; calls for speculation.

# 86 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 87

BY MS. CLARK:

# 88 Q:

Okay. In your experience, sir, is it generally the paramedics who have interaction with the bodies?

# 89 A:

Yes.

# 90 Q:

And when that occurs before you arrive at a crime scene, in your experience, sir, when you come on the scene after they have attended to the bodies, is there some way that you can tell they have been there before you?

# 91 A:

Yes. They will leave an ambulance slip.

# 92 Q:

An ambulance slip?

# 93 A:

Ambulance slip indicating they've been there, and the unit and time of death, this type of thing.

# 94 Q:

Is there something about the condition of the bodies of the victims that tells you that paramedics have been there to attend to them before you arrive?

# 95 A:

Sometimes if paramedics have been there the body position will be altered.

KEY QUOTE

# 96 Q:

Have you ever seen the electrocardiogram, the pads that they use for reviving someone that they place on them to revive the heart?

# 97 A:

Yes.

# 98 Q:

And did you see that in this case?

# 99 A:

No.

# 100 Q:

But that is frequently left on the bodies of victims when paramedics have attended to them before you've arrived?

# 101 A:

Yes.

# 102 Q:

Was there anything about the bodies as you saw them in this case that indicated to you that they had been disturbed by anyone in any way?

# 103 A:

No.

# 104 Q:

Do you happen to know when the coroner's investigator arrived?

# 105 A:

I have that notated here in my log. If I may. Investigator Ratcliffe arrived at 9:10 a.m.

# 106 Q:

Where were you at that time, sir?

# 107 A:

I was at the Bundy location.

# 108 Q:

So you saw the coroner's investigator arrive?

# 109 A:

Yes.

# 110 Q:

Isn't it policy, sir, that no one is to touch the body of a victim before the coroner's investigator arrives?

# 111 A:

That's correct.

# 112 Q:

And you were present when that coroner's investigator got there.

# 113 A:

Yes.

# 114 Q:

You indicated, I think, that you did not direct anyone to not smoke or drink at the crime scene at 875 south Bundy.

# 115 A:

Yes.

# 116 Q:

Why didn't you?

# 117 A:

It's generally a given that an officer has been trained and knows better than to smoke or eat at a crime scene. If someone had been observed doing that, we would have jumped on them right away. That is not tolerated at a crime scene, and that's general knowledge.

KEY QUOTE

# 118 Q:

So when there's tape around a scene that has been secured with the police tape as a barrier, whatever is inside that scene, no one is allowed to go in there and do anything like smoke or drink or eat.

# 119 A:

That's correct.

# 120 Q:

And if something like that were to occur, it would be very unusual?

# 121 A:

Yes.

# 122 Q:

And a report would be made?

# 123 A:

Certainly.

# 124 Q:

was there any such report made in this case?

# 125 A:

Not to my knowledge.

# 126 Q:

Was there any indication made to you that the crime scene at 875 south Bundy was disturbed in that manner behind the yellow tape in any way?

# 127 A:

No.

# 128 Q:

You indicated that it was more important to get a criminalist to Rockingham Avenue than to the Bundy address at one point during your testimony on cross-examination. Do you recall that?

# 129 A:

Yes.

# 130 Q:

Why?

# 131 A:

The Bundy location was a secured location. The victims, the evidence, were secure. Nothing was going anywhere. At the Rockingham location, it was an unsecured location. There was a vehicle that was parked at that location with a possible blood stain on it that we wanted analyzed. It was parked partially blocking the street. Again, it was unsecured and we needed it -- needed that possible blood stain to be analyzed first. It just made sense because we had the other location secured. So we wanted the Rockingham thing out of the way and then the criminalist was to proceed on to Bundy.

KEY QUOTE

# 132 Q:

Well, you indicated earlier that the Rockingham address was not a crime scene.

# 133 A:

It was not --

# 134 Q:

And no crime scene log was generated for it because it was not a crime scene. Can you explain that?

# 135 A:

When I was at the location, it was not a crime scene. The criminalist -- when I was there with the criminalist that was requested was there to only test the blood on the Bronco vehicle. I left before the criminalist arrived.

# 136 Q:

In the 2- to 300 homicides that you've investigated, sir, has it every occurred before that you have left a crime scene before it was completed in the processing?

# 137 A:

It seems to me there have been instances, yes.

# 138 Q:

And that when you left the crime scene in previous cases before the processing was complete, you intended to return?

# 139 A:

Yes.

# 140 Q:

Was that your intention when you left 875 south Bundy for the Rockingham address?

# 141 A:

Yes.

# 142 Q:

Did you expect to be back fairly quickly?

# 143 A:

Yes.

# 144 Q:

So when you left lieutenant Rogers at the 875 south Bundy address -- and I believe you indicated you did not intend for him to process the crime scene for you -- you left him there thinking that you were going to be back in a few minutes.

# 145 A:

Yes, short time.

# 146 MS. CLARK:

I have nothing further.

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Witness

The Bundy location was a secured location. The victims, the evidence, were secure. Nothing was going anywhere. At the Rockingham location, it was an unsecured location. There was a vehicle that was parked at that location with a possible blood stain on it that we wanted analyzed.

Core prosecution rebuttal to defense suggestion that Rockingham was improperly prioritized — detective explains operational logic for sending the criminalist there first.

Witness

It's generally a given that an officer has been trained and knows better than to smoke or eat at a crime scene. If someone had been observed doing that, we would have jumped on them right away. That is not tolerated at a crime scene.

Directly addresses defense insinuations about crime scene contamination; frames proper conduct as default, not exception.

Witness

Sometimes if paramedics have been there the body position will be altered.

Establishes experiential baseline for how paramedic interference is detectable — sets up Clark's follow-on questions showing no such disturbance occurred.

Robert Shapiro

Your Honor, we have a man who's in custody without bail, and I think that's a very improper question and is very prejudicial.

Shapiro reminds the court of OJ's detention status to object to Clark's framing of future investigative steps — a rhetorical move as much as a legal one.

Evidence (4)

Informal

Detective's crime scene log, used to confirm Fire Department captain was on scene for five minutes and was 'not needed'

consulted and quoted

Informal

Coroner's investigator Ratcliffe's arrival time (9:10 a.m.), confirmed from detective's log

discussed

Informal

Bronco vehicle at Rockingham with possible blood stain

discussed as rationale for prioritizing criminalist dispatch to Rockingham

Informal

Shoe prints at Bundy — blood, swabbing, and photographing preserved; further analysis intended but not yet done

discussed

Notable Exchanges (3)

Marcia Clark•Robert Shapiro

Clark asks whether there are 'many things to do before the case proceeds to trial'; Shapiro objects that the phrasing assumes the case will proceed, and invokes OJ's custody-without-bail status. Clark rephrases; Shapiro objects again on prejudice grounds. Court overrules.

strategic

Marcia Clark•Witness

Clark walks through paramedic protocols — ambulance slips, altered body positions, EKG pads — then confirms none of those indicators were present at Bundy, establishing the bodies were undisturbed.

methodical

Marcia Clark•Witness

Clark resolves the apparent contradiction between calling Rockingham 'not a crime scene' and sending the criminalist there first, by having the detective explain he left before the criminalist arrived and expected to return to Bundy quickly.

rehabilitative

Objections

5 objections (2 sustained, 2 overruled)

Proceeding 8974 • 146 utterances • Defense witness

Preliminary Trial

Department 103