Mr. Shapiro.

Yes, thank you very much, Your Honor.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. SHAPIRO:

Good morning, Detective Lange.

Good morning.

Is this case still in the process of an on-going investigation?

Yes.

And have you from the onset until the present time been getting leads on possible other suspects?

Yes.

And are you investigating those leads?

Personally, I am not. At this particular point they are being gathered, categorized, and we're assigning them out as quickly as we can.

Who is in charge of investigating other leads?

At this point, it's detective Paine.

And how many people are under his direction investigating these other leads?

The number varies. Again, we're trying to prioritize the amount of information we're getting. He probably will have anywhere from six to ten or perhaps more people, depending on the amount of information coming in.

Do you know what stage these leads are in, in terms of development?

Very, very early, I would say.

According to all the information you have received, was the first call relative to this investigation a call that there was a burglary suspect at 874 south Bundy drive?

It seems to me there was a call to that effect, a prowler or something like that. I don't recall exactly.

Do you have any records of the first call that was received that resulted in this investigation?

I believe we might have. I haven't checked that. I don't know for sure.

And the officers who took that call, are they required to record that type of call?

The officers who responded to this --

No, who received the call, that there was a burglary suspect.

Well, I'm sure they'd record it, yes. There's a daily field activity report that most units fill out that they'd have it on.

The exact time of the radio call and the type of the call are required by L.A.P.D. policy to be recorded, are they not?

They certainly should be, yes.

Do you have any information as to how that call regarding a burglar suspect at Bundy was broadcasted?

No, I don't. Again, I'm not familiar with the particular details of that radio call. It's just my knowledge that I believe there was a previous call to that location.

Do you have any information that this call was broadcast on June 13th, 1994, at approximately 0010 hours?

Do I have information?

Yes.

It is -- there's very possibly information in the book.

And do you have -- would this radio call be a high priority call?

It would depend. If a suspect were at the location at that time, it would be a high priority call. If the suspect had left, not necessarily, unless the suspect's still in the area. Again, I don't know what the details were on that call.

Was the location of this call, 874 south Bundy, directly across the street from the homicide scene?

I don't recall the address.

Do you have any records of that?

I believe there are some records. It seems to me it was right in the vicinity, though, yes.

If it was 874 south Bundy drive, would that be directly across the street from the homicide scene?

Yes, it would.

Did you or anyone under your staff -- anyone in your staff locate the person who initiated this phone call?

I did not, and I'm not aware of anyone else who did, other than the responding officers perhaps.

Did you or anyone under your direction interview anybody at 874 south Bundy?

Does a radio call of this nature cause to be generated an incident report?

It would probably depend on whether or not a crime has occurred. If it were just a prowler call, perhaps it would just be a mention in their activities report. If a crime had occurred, then, of course, they'd be required to take a crime report.

What if it said, "burglary suspect there now at 874 south Bundy drive"? Would that type of radio call generate an incident report?

Not necessarily.

Do you know if an incident report was generated?

No, I don't.

If such a report was generated, would that be included in the murder book?

I would hope we would eventually get that.

Have you seen such a report in the murder book?

I don't recall seeing a report to that effect.

Was there any report that the burglary suspect that was there was a Caucasian?

Again, Mr. Shapiro, I'm not familiar with the details of that report.

Now, are the first officers at the scene required to protect the crime scene and cordon off the vulnerable areas?

Yes.

Are the officers required to determine if an ambulance crew or any other person moved the body or any other items within the crime scene?

It would be helpful, but they're not necessarily required to do that.

Are the officers required to record the names, addresses and date of births and telephone numbers of all persons at the crime scene?

That's preferable again, yes.

If an ambulance crew is present, are the officers required to record their names, serial numbers, and obtain a rescue report?

They should do that, yes, on a crime scene log. That's correct.

Was such a crew there?

I don't believe so.

Would you check your chronological record, please.

Yes. If you give me a moment. There are several logs from several incidents here.

Maybe I can help you with that. Why don't you look at --

I believe I have it, thank you.

-- 00038.

Yes, I have it, thank you.

Does that indicate whether any emergency crews were there other than police?

I'm checking. It's quite lengthy. I wasn't there to observe. If I may have a moment. There is an indication of a Los Angeles Fire Department captain at the scene. It states here he was not needed. This does not necessarily mean that this was a paramedic, but a representative from the L.A. Fire Department.

Have you ever talked to that person?

No.

Has anybody, to your knowledge, talked to that person?

To my knowledge, no, I don't know.

Has anybody recorded the names of any other personnel that may have been there with the Fire Department?

Well, I'm still checking here. If I could have a moment?

Pardon?

Can I take a moment? I'm still checking.

Yes. Let me know when you've had a chance.

Thank you. No, the only representative I see from the Fire Department is that captain.

Do you know what type of vehicle he arrived in?

No.

Did anyone check to see whether he inspected the bodies?

That's not indicated. All it says is, "not needed." So --

My question was did anyone check to see if he went to the bodies at the crime scene?

I don't know.

Did anyone check to see if he disturbed anything at the crime scene?

I have no knowledge of that.

Did anyone check to see if he came with a crew?

If he would have come with a crew, their names should have been logged, and all I see is his name, so I'm assuming that he was the only one there.

Whose responsibility is it to see that no one enters the crime scene?

The officers who would have been assigned to secure the crime scene.

And who were they?

Again, referring to my log, we have officers Cummings and Sanchez, Mc Allen and Walley, Zeigler, and it appears to be Glorioso. The primary unit, Riske and Terrazas, would probably have had something to do with that. Also assisting officers Gonzales and Aston.

Have you read any reports that any of these officers generated regarding their observations when they arrived at the scene?

Objection; irrelevant.

Sustained.

BY MR. SHAPIRO:

Have you talked to any of those officers?

Objection; irrelevant.

Sustained.

May I be heard, Your Honor?

Yes.

I think one of the key issues in this case is whether or not the crime scene was disturbed, and this is foundational for asking those questions.

All right.

Your Honor, if counsel has concerns in that regard, he can certainly subpoena the first officer on the scene who could explain what he did to secure it and how he kept people out of the scene, or perhaps failed to do so. But asking this detective who appeared on the scene some four hours after the first officer appeared is ineffective. There's no way to -- that this officer could possibly know what transpired before he arrived, and asking him what was done and who came in and who did not would call for hearsay and speculation.

Well, I think here, since we're back now to the preliminary hearing, if the appropriate foundation had been established with regard to the number of years that this detective has been with the department -- which I believe that was part of your early testimony -- hearsay would probably be admissible, assuming that he's not acting as a mere reader officer and that that information was imparted to him by some other person. So the objection is overruled, subject to the appropriate foundation.

Thank you, Your Honor.

BY MR. SHAPIRO:

Did you read any of the reports that were generated by any of these officers?

Yes.

Have you talked to any of these officers?

No.

Do you know if any -- did you ask them if they did anything at the crime scene upon arrival?

Personally, I did not. It was done by someone else.

Who was that done by?

detective Phillips.

And did he report that anything was done at the crime scene by any of these officers?

Well, it's pretty vague. If you'd like, I could tell you what the reports indicated.

Yes, would you.

The reports -- each officer was interviewed separately as to what they did at the location, where they stood, where they stepped, whether or not they were injured. There are reports as to each officer. Each officer's shoe prints were photographed and they each gave a statement as to exactly what they did at the scene.

Is there any policy regarding how persons can enter a cordoned off crime scene?

Is there any policy?

Yes.

Well, again, policy is a guideline. No two crime scenes are alike. Therefore, we have policy, but, again, policy is merely a guideline. It can't dictate to you how to handle any particular crime scene.

Is the policy generally that no crime scene shall be entered except in the accompaniment of an officer?

You could interpret it as generally being that way, but, again, it's merely a guideline.

And to caution anybody who does regarding contamination or alteration of evidence?

Certainly.

Was that done in this case?

Again, I was not present. I would certainly hope it was.

Now, when -- did you and your partner, detective Vannatter, arrive together or in different vehicles at the Bundy crime scene?

Separately.

Who arrived first?

detective Vannatter.

You arrived how much later?

Yes.

How much later did you arrive, do you know?

Oh, I believe it was approximately 20 or 25 minutes.

And did you observe the crime scene to be secure when you entered?

It was secure in my mind, yes.

Were the tapes, ropes, barricades, placed in proper positions?

There was yellow police tape that was up, and there were uniformed officers, I believe, stationed at the front and the rear of the location.

In your opinion, was it properly barricaded?

If you refer to yellow tape as barricades, yes. There were no actual barricades.

I'm asking in your expertise as the senior member of the special unit whether or not that crime scene was properly cordoned off at the time you arrived.

In my mind, it appeared to be, yes.

Upon arriving, did you cause to record the weather conditions and the temperature at the crime scene?

Initially, I did not.

Is there any importance to doing that?

There may be. There may not.

And what would the importance be?

The importance certainly may be perhaps one factor of many in determining the time of death.

Is the time of death an important criteria to establish in a homicide investigation?

I would say in most instances, yes.

In this case, would it be?

Certainly.

And is it true in your experience that the earlier you begin the investigation process regarding trying to establish the time of death, the more likely you are to establish the time of death?

Not necessarily.

You would not agree with that?

Well, again, it's a general statement. There would be instances certainly where that would be true, and there would be instances where it wouldn't necessarily be true.

In this case would it have been true?

Perhaps.

And you, as the senior detective there, were in charge of alerting the criminalists, the coroner, and any other support unit you would need to conduct the proper investigation; is that correct?

Well, in conjunction with my partner, yes.

And what time did you notify the coroner's investigative unit to come out to help ascertain the time of death?

I had requested another detective on the scene to make what we call a first call to the coroner's office to alert them what we had. Subsequent to that, another call is made telling them that we're ready for them. I don't recall who made the call.

Is there any record of that? Is that in your chronological log?

That may well be with the coroner's log.

Is it in your chronological log?

I don't believe I have it in my chronological log.

Is that something that you should have in your log?

Not necessarily.

What time did the coroner's investigators arrive at the crime scene?

Would you like me to refer to the homicide log?

If you don't know.

I have no personal recollection.

Do you have a general idea how many hours it was after the initial report?

It seems to me it was probably approximately 10:00 o'clock, 9:30, 10:00, 10:15, somewhere in there. But it's only a guess.

Would you feel more comfortable in reviewing your notes?

It doesn't matter to me. If you'd like me to, if you want a specific time --

If you're comfortable with that answer, fine. If you're not --

Well, no. Again, you asked me if I had a specific time. If you want, I can look at the log for you. I do not recall a specific time.

We would like to get the answer that closest resembles what occurred. So if your notes would help in that, we would appreciate it.

Well, it's in the log.

Please check that, then.

The personnel log at the scene indicates that coroner's representative Ratcliffe arrived at 9:10 a.m. and coroner's representative Jacobo arrived at 9:20 a.m.

Are you familiar with the term "rigor mortis"?

Yes.

And is that some -- a factor that's used to determine the time of death?

It can be, yes.

And in a case involving a homicide like this one, would it be important to try to establish the time of rigor mortis as close to the time of the actual death for establishing later the time of death?

The time of rigor mortis? I don't understand. Rigor mortis is an ongoing thing.

Is that determination a time determination? In other words, is that a determination that if made earlier is more helpful, or it doesn't matter when it's made?

Objection. Vague, ambiguous, calls for a conclusion from a nonexpert witness of an expert nature.

Sustained. There's no foundation that this detective knows the answer to that.

Thank you, Your Honor.

BY MR. SHAPIRO:

Do you know the answer to those things?

I'm sorry --

Objection; Your Honor. That was the whole point. No foundation was laid.

I think that you'd have to sort of lay the foundation before you ask the general conclusion if there's no answer.

BY MR. SHAPIRO:

Are you an expert in homicide investigations?

I guess that's open to interpretation.

Have you qualified as an expert in homicide investigations?

I have.

On how many occasions?

I've been court qualified on at least one occasion in superior and Federal Court.

Do you consider yourself an expert in homicide investigations?

Objection; irrelevant.

Sustained.

BY MR. SHAPIRO:

Do others consider you an expert in homicide investigations in your department?

Calls for speculation, irrelevant. Objection.

Overruled.

I -- you would have to ask them.

Can we call detective Vannatter, please? We'll proceed.

BY MR. SHAPIRO:

You guys are very modest, I must say. Are you familiar with such terms as "lividity," "temperature change," "digestion in the stomach," and "eye fluids" as they relate to time of death?

Yes.

Are any of those things important criteria in establishing time of death?

They can be.

Are all of those important criteria in establishing the time of death?

They certainly can be.

Now, you called for a criminalist to come to the scene; is that correct?

I personally did not, but a --

At your direction?

Yes.

At your direction. I know you don't dial the phone for all these things. You're kind of like the coach or the quarterback. You tell other people what to do?

Sometimes.

Did you in this case?

Yes.

And that was your job.

Yes.

And you told somebody for a criminalist to come out.

Yes.

I don't recall exactly how that happened. I know that he was directed to Rockingham first, though.

And did you consider Rockingham to be a homicide scene at the time he was directed there?

No.

Did you consider Bundy to be a homicide scene?

Yes.

Of the two, which did you consider to be more important in terms of priority to get a criminalist there?

And that was before you and the other officers made your emergency entry into that location, wasn't it?

I believe the request for a criminalist to test the apparent blood stain on the vehicle was before.

Was before?

I believe it was.

You're not --

I'm a little unclear because I left the Rockingham location shortly thereafter to return to the Bundy location.

Do you have any records to indicate the time that the criminalist arrived at Rockingham?

I was not present when he arrived at Rockingham.

My question is, do you have any records to indicate the time the criminalist arrived?

I may have in my possession. Like I said, there are many logs here.

Is that -- well, that's something you are required to record, isn't it, what time a criminalist initially arrives at a crime scene?

Well, I would hope someone would, certainly.

Would you check who did that and what time the criminalist arrived?

I don't know and I don't have that information. If a separate log was kept after I left the location, I'll have to go through quite a bit of material here.

I think, Mr. Shapiro, we'll take the morning recess at this time and that should facilitate.

That should help in finding it. Thank you, judge.