Direct examination of Philip Vannatter (part 1)

📄 Direct examination of Philip Vannatter (part 1) — Thursday, July 7, 1994

Address:

C:\DEPT103\PRELIMINARY\1994\JUL\7\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-PHILIP-V.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 5 of 6

◀ Cross-examination of unknown witness (part 2) Sidebar: photograph evidence objection ▶

Witness: Det. Philip Vannatter
Examiner: Marcia Clark
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Thursday, July 7, 1994 • Utterances: 170

Detective Vannatter testified about chain of custody for victim blood vials (delivered to criminalist Colin Yamauchi on June 15), the glove found at Rockingham (People's 21), and OJ Simpson's bandaged left middle finger observed when he arrived at Rockingham. The examination was interrupted by a significant dispute over whether defense had received crime lab photographs of the two gloves side-by-side (People's 22), with Shapiro claiming they had not been provided and Clark insisting they had — culminating in Clark handing over her own copy.

# 1 MS. CLARK:

Yes, Your Honor. The people call Detective Vannatter. Recall.

# 2 MR. SHAPIRO:

Your Honor, I would offer to stipulate that detective Vannatter's testimony during the motion to suppress can be incorporated and made part of the record for the preliminary hearing.

# 3 THE COURT:

Is that agreeable, Ms. Clark?

# 4 MS. CLARK:

Yes, it is. Thank you, counsel.

# 5 THE COURT:

Do we still need to hear from Detective Vannatter?

# 6 MS. CLARK:

we do, for just a few matters actually.

# 7 THE COURT:

I think I've said this before. You've previously been sworn and remain under oath. Please have a seat in the witness stand.

# 8 DET. PHILIP VANNATTER:

Yes, Your Honor, and thank you. phillip vannatter, called as a witness by and on behalf of the People, having been previously called and duly sworn, resumed the stand and testified further as follows:

# 9 THE COURT:

State and spell your name.

# 10 DET. PHILIP VANNATTER:

Phillip Vannatter. P-h-i-l-l-i-P, v-a-n-n-a-t-t-e-r.

# 11 THE COURT:

Thank you. You may inquire.

# 12

DIRECT EXAMINATION

# 13

BY MS. CLARK:

# 14 Q:

Sir, did you attend the autopsies of the victims in this matter, Ron Goldman and Nicole Simpson?

# 15 A:

Yes, I did.

# 16 Q:

And in the course of that autopsy, sir, did you observe the coroner to obtain blood from each of the victims, blood samples?

# 17 A:

Yes.

# 18 Q:

Did you recover those vials from the coroner's lab and return them somewhere?

# 19 A:

Yes, I did.

# 20 Q:

Those vials of blood samples that you recovered from each of the victims, how were they packaged when you recovered them?

# 21 A:

They were packaged in small glass vials with a purple top.

# 22 Q:

Did they bear some number or description?

# 23 A:

Yes, they did.

# 24 Q:

Can you tell us what that was?

# 25 A:

Certainly. They had the victim's names and the coroner case number that corresponds to their names on the vial.

# 26 Q:

Showing you People's 2 and 3, sir, can you tell me whether the people depicted in these photographs are the ones whose autopsies you attended in this matter?

# 27 A:

Yes, they are, yes.

# 28 Q:

And they are?

# 29 A:

Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown. Nicole brown Simpson.

# 30 MS. CLARK:

in People's 2 and 3 respectively, Your Honor.

# 31 THE COURT:

All right.

# 32

BY MS. CLARK:

# 33 Q:

I'm sorry, sir. You described the packaging. Did that bear a number?

# 34 A:

Yes, it did.

# 35 Q:

What number was that?

# 36 A:

The coroner's case number for Mr. Goldman was 945135, and the number for Nicole Brown Simpson was 945136.

# 37 Q:

And that was on the packages?

# 38 A:

That was on a label on the glass vial itself.

# 39 Q:

And what did you do with those vials?

# 40 A:

I hand carried those to Scientific Investigation Division, Los Angeles Police Department, and handed them over to an employee there, Colin Yamauchi.

# 41 Q:

What does he do at the police department, sir?

# 42 A:

He's an employee of the Scientific Investigation Division that works in the serology department.

# 43 Q:

And on what date did you deliver those to him?

# 44 A:

That would have been the morning after the autopsy. It would have been June the 15th.

# 45 Q:

Now, you've earlier testified regarding a glove that was found at the south side of the location of 360 north Rockingham?

# 46 A:

Yes.

# 47 MS. CLARK:

I have a picture. I ASK it be marked People's 21.

# 48 THE COURT:

All right.

# 49

BY MS. CLARK:

# 50 Q:

and I ask you if this is the glove that you saw on the grounds on the south side of Rockingham in the position in which you saw it?

# 51 A:

Yes, it does.

# 52 Q:

Now, you indicated that -- yesterday, sir, at approximately 7:30 you left the Rockingham address to secure a search warrant.

# 53 A:

That's correct.

# 54 Q:

What time did you return to the Rockingham address?

# 55 A:

Shortly after 11:30 in the morning.

# 56 Q:

And when you returned, did you see anyone outside the gates of the Rockingham address?

# 57 A:

Yes.

# 58 Q:

Who did you see?

# 59 A:

I saw Mr. Howard Weitzman and Mr. Taft, Mr. Skip Taft.

# 60 Q:

And where were they, if you recall? What gate?

# 61 A:

They were standing at the Rockingham gate, along the north side of the gate.

# 62 Q:

And where were you when you saw them?

# 63 A:

I had just parked my car and was walking into the gate, walking toward the residence.

# 64 Q:

Did you make contact with them?

# 65 A:

I spoke to Mr. Weitzman, yes, because I recognized him, and he spoke to me.

# 66 Q:

After you spoke to Mr. Weitzman, what happened next?

# 67 A:

I continued into the residence with the search warrant, was there a short time; and I had left instructions with officers, if Mr. Simpson arrived at the location, to keep him from coming into the residence. And shortly after that period, while I was inside, I looked down and I saw Mr. Simpson at the location.

# 68 Q:

Did you make contact with him, sir?

# 69 A:

Yes.

# 70 Q:

When you made contact with him, did you notice anything unusual about either of his hands?

# 71 A:

Not at first. When I first made contact with him, he had handcuffs on.

# 72 Q:

Well, what --

# 73 A:

Shortly after making contact with him, I removed the handcuffs and I noticed a bandage on his left hand, the left middle finger in the upper joint area.

KEY QUOTE

# 74 Q:

Now, at some point did you and the defendant proceed downtown?

# 75 A:

Yes.

# 76 Q:

Now, when I said, "Mr. Simpson," then I said, "the defendant," do you see Mr. Simpson in court today?

# 77 A:

Yes, I do.

# 78 Q:

Can you please point him out?

# 79 A:

Certainly. He's wearing the dark blue suit, seated at the end of the counsel table there.

# 80 THE COURT:

Indicating the defendant.

# 81 MS. CLARK:

Thank you.

# 82

BY MS. CLARK:

# 83 Q:

And you transported him downtown?

# 84 A:

That's correct, yes.

# 85 Q:

Did anyone else accompany you downtown?

# 86 A:

Yes, another detective from Robbery Homicide Division.

# 87 Q:

And did anyone else meet you downtown at the same time?

# 88 A:

Yes.

# 89 Q:

Who was that?

# 90 A:

Mr. Weitzman and Mr. Taft.

# 91 Q:

Once downtown, did you take -- make some effort to document the condition of his left middle finger?

# 92 A:

I did.

# 93 Q:

What did you do?

# 94 A:

I took him to the photo lab, photography lab of the police department, and had it photographed.

# 95 Q:

Did you cause a blood sample to be taken from Mr. Simpson?

# 96 A:

I did.

# 97 Q:

And did you get his consent to do so?

# 98 A:

Yes.

# 99 Q:

Were you present when that blood was taken?

# 100 A:

Yes, I was.

# 101 Q:

And was the vial given to you after it was taken?

# 102 A:

Yes.

# 103 Q:

What did you do with that vial?

# 104 A:

I kept that vial in my possession and hand-carried it to criminalist Dennis Fung, and turned it over to him to be booked with the evidence.

# 105 Q:

And that vial was -- did you do it on the same day that it was -- the blood was taken from the

# 106 A:

Yes. The 13th.

# 107 Q:

Of June?

# 108 A:

That's correct.

# 109 MS. CLARK:

Oh, may I have a moment, Your Honor?

# 110 THE COURT:

All right.

# 111 MS. CLARK:

I have here a photograph, Your Honor. Ask it be marked as People's 22.

# 112 THE COURT:

All right.

# 113 (Counsel conferred.)

# 114 MR. SHAPIRO:

Your Honor, may we approach? Or I can just put it on the record.

# 115 THE COURT:

All right.

# 116 MR. SHAPIRO:

I have checked with the lawyers and investigators from my office, and we do not believe that we have received a copy of this photograph. I could take a moment and check with the criminalist, but I believe -- but my recollection is we have not seen this photograph, and the date on this photograph is June 21st of '91.

# 117 THE COURT:

'91?

# 118 MR. SHAPIRO:

Of '94, I'm sorry. I can't see, with or without my glasses.

# 119 MS. CLARK:

May I indicate what is on the photograph, your Honor?

# 120 MR. SHAPIRO:

There are two gloves and a ruler.

# 121 MS. CLARK:

Two gloves, each of them bearing an item number that has already been related to this case. What it does is depict the glove recovered from the crime scene and the glove recovered from the house side by side. I would be delighted to provide counsel with a copy of that photograph if he feels he does not have one. I thought we had given him copies of all photographs. This is not a crime scene photograph at all. It is a lab photograph.

# 122 THE COURT:

This is a photo that was taken at the crime lab itself?

# 123 MS. CLARK:

Yes.

# 124 THE COURT:

Do you have a series of such photos from the crime lab?

# 125 MS. CLARK:

I don't. As far as I know, that is the only one; but I don't know. I thought counsel had all photographs, your Honor; but I will certainly have it duplicated for him. It is not a problem. It doesn't constitute any evidence he has not already seen. It simply puts the two items together in one picture.

# 126 MR. SHAPIRO:

Perhaps we could use another item of evidence that we have already seen for the purposes of this examination at this time and give us an opportunity to examine this photograph.

# 127 THE COURT:

Well, I will give you a chance to examine that photograph. Do you have other evidence that you can present with regard to this at this point?

# 128 MS. CLARK:

I don't know how long it takes counsel to look at a picture of two gloves, but I will be glad to wait until he has satisfied himself that he can match the item numbers of the gloves with the item numbers on his property report and the appearance of those gloves with the appearance of the gloves in the photographs he has already got.

# 129 MR. SHAPIRO:

I would say it would take me time to get expert witnesses from New York, from other parts of the United States, to review this. I am obviously capable of looking at it and seeing it is two gloves. If that is the only purpose of this photograph, I think detective Vannatter can identify hundreds of pictures of gloves that we have. It is just ironic there is one picture we don't have that they want to use for some reason.

# 130 MS. CLARK:

It is one photograph that we have that shows the two gloves in one place, side by side. That's all, your Honor. I don't understand counsel's objection. I don't see why it takes an expert to look at a picture of two gloves.

# 131 THE COURT:

Mr. Shapiro, I am not going to preclude Miss Clark from utilizing the photo. I take her word for the fact this is a photo of apparently the gloves that we have heard testimony concerning in this preliminary hearing. You are entitled to a copy of it. They have indicated they would provide one to you. When can that be provided? Do you know?

# 132 MS. CLARK:

Right now. I will give counsel my copy.

# 133 THE COURT:

You have a smaller version of what he is holding in his hand?

# 134 MS. CLARK:

Yes, I do.

# 135 THE COURT:

Okay. Let's hand that over to defense counsel.

# 136 MR. SHAPIRO:

Are there any other photographs we haven't received, your Honor?

# 137 THE COURT:

That I don't know.

# 138 MS. CLARK:

I have just been handed a series of photographs that are all crime lab photographs of the gloves. I believe counsel does have them, but I will be glad to give him these again and have another set made for myself.

# 139 MR. SHAPIRO:

We have inventoried each and every item of evidence that has been received, and we have not received those photographs.

# 140 MS. CLARK:

That representation was made to me yesterday, and other counsel for the defense indicated they did indeed have what they said they didn't have; So I would ask Mr. Shapiro to examine the items he has been given to date again.

# 141 THE COURT:

Is that something you can do in a short period of time?

# 142 MR. SHAPIRO:

Yeah. We have them all cataloged.

# 143 MS. CLARK:

How do we know what he has back at his office, your Honor? I am turning over all of these photographs that were taken at the crime lab. These are my only set. And ordinarily we order two sets, which would indicate to me counsel has his. But in an abundance of caution, I am going to turn them over again and I am going to get another set for myself.

# 144 MR. SHAPIRO:

Thank you. The last time we got these, we got a bill for $4,000. That is very kind of you.

KEY QUOTE

# 145 MS. CLARK:

May I proceed?

# 146 THE COURT:

Yes. Let's proceed.

# 147

BY MS. CLARK:

# 148 Q:

Sir, showing you what has now been marked as People's 22, do you recognize what I am showing you?

# 149 A:

Yes, I do.

# 150 Q:

Now, do you see beneath each of these gloves that there is an item number?

# 151 A:

I do.

# 152 Q:

What is an item number?

# 153 A:

That is an item number of a piece of evidence that has been recovered and booked as evidence with our crime lab.

# 154 Q:

And are you familiar with the property report that lists the item numbers for the evidence that was recovered in this case, sir?

# 155 A:

Yes, I am.

# 156 Q:

was each of the gloves recovered, the one at the 875 south Bundy address and the one at the 360 Rockingham address, given a separate item number?

# 157 A:

Yes, it was.

# 158 Q:

Do you recognize the item numbers shown in People's 22?

# 159 A:

I do.

# 160 Q:

Can you tell us, sir, whether those are the item numbers that go to each of those respective addresses for each glove?

# 161 A:

Yes. Item No. 9 is the glove that was recovered at 360 Rockingham, and item 37 is the glove recovered at 875 south Bundy.

# 162 Q:

Do items also receive a second number, a photograph number?

# 163 A:

They normally get what is called a "c" number, and it is issued by the photography department; and then the crime report D.R. number is affixed, also.

# 164 Q:

For example, in the exhibit next to you, which is People's 19, in "B," "C" -- actually, all of them, you see these numbers?

# 165 A:

Yes.

# 166 Q:

Those are photo numbers, sir?

# 167 A:

Yes.

# 168 Q:

As opposed to item numbers?

# 169 A:

Yes.

# 170 MR. SHAPIRO:

Your Honor, I am going to object to this series of photographs being shown. May we be heard at side bar?

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (4)

Witness

Shortly after making contact with him, I removed the handcuffs and I noticed a bandage on his left hand, the left middle finger in the upper joint area.

Establishes the cut on Simpson's finger, a key piece of physical evidence linking him to the crime scene blood drops.

Robert Shapiro

It is just ironic there is one picture we don't have that they want to use for some reason.

Defense signals suspicion about prosecutorial disclosure and plants a seed of impropriety around the glove evidence.

Marcia Clark

I don't understand counsel's objection. I don't see why it takes an expert to look at a picture of two gloves.

Reflects the combative dynamic between Clark and Shapiro; Clark dismisses Shapiro's concerns as delay tactics.

Robert Shapiro

The last time we got these, we got a bill for $4,000. That is very kind of you.

Rare moment of dark humor amid a tense discovery dispute; underscores the scale and cost of the evidence production.

Evidence (7)

People's 2

Photograph of Ron Goldman

identified by Vannatter to establish autopsy attendance

People's 3

Photograph of Nicole Brown Simpson

identified by Vannatter to establish autopsy attendance

People's 21

Photograph of the glove found on the south side of 360 North Rockingham

introduced and identified by Vannatter

People's 22

Crime lab photograph showing both gloves (item 9 from Rockingham and item 37 from Bundy) side by side with a ruler

introduced; disputed by defense as not previously disclosed; Clark provided her copy to Shapiro

People's 19

Series of crime scene/lab photographs referenced for photo numbering system

discussed to explain photo numbers vs. item numbers

Informal

Two blood vials from victims' autopsies (coroner case numbers 945135 for Goldman and 945136 for Nicole Brown Simpson), purple-topped glass vials

described by Vannatter; chain of custody established — delivered to Colin Yamauchi at LAPD SID on June 15

+ 1 more

Notable Exchanges (2)

Robert Shapiro•Marcia Clark•Kathleen Kennedy-Powell

Extended dispute over People's 22, a crime lab photo of both gloves. Shapiro claimed his team had inventoried all evidence and this photo was missing; Clark insisted defense had received it and offered her own copy. Shapiro suggested it would take expert witnesses to properly examine it; Clark responded she didn't understand why experts were needed to look at two gloves.

heated

Marcia Clark•Robert Shapiro

Clark revealed she had been told the previous day that defense claimed not to have certain items, then other defense counsel confirmed they did. She asked Shapiro to re-examine what he had.

strategic

Light Moments (2)

Robert Shapiro

After Clark offered to hand over crime lab photographs again, Shapiro quipped: 'The last time we got these, we got a bill for $4,000. That is very kind of you.'

Robert Shapiro

Shapiro admitted he couldn't read the date on the photograph 'with or without my glasses,' momentarily confusing 1994 for 1991.

Objections

1 objections (0 sustained, 0 overruled)

Proceeding 8977 • 170 utterances • Prosecution witness

Preliminary Trial

Department 103