Marcia Clark conducts direct examination of Brian 'Kato' Kaelin, OJ Simpson's houseguest at Rockingham, covering the events of June 12, 1994. Kaelin describes his living arrangement, his McDonald's run with Simpson around 9:10 PM, and most critically, hearing three loud thumps against his guest house wall around 10:40-10:45 PM — thumps that shook a picture off the wall and led him to twice attempt (but fail) to investigate. He also describes spotting a dark bag near the Rolls Royce and helping load a golf bag into the limo before Simpson rushed to the airport.
# 1 MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. PEOPLE CALL MR. BRIAN KAELIN. OH, I AM SORRY, YOUR HONOR. ONE MINUTE.
# 2 THE COURT: FACE THE CLERK, SIR, AND RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND. THE COURT CLERK: YOU DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR THE TESTIMONY YOU ARE ABOUT TO GIVE IN THE CAUSE NOW PENDING BEFORE THIS COURT SHALL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD?
# 3 BRIAN "KATO" KAELIN: I DO. THE COURT CLERK: PLEASE BE SEATED. STATE AND SPELL YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD.
# 4 BRIAN "KATO" KAELIN: BRIAN, B-R-I-A-N. KATO. K-A-T-O. KAELIN. K-A-E-L-I-N. BRIAN KATO KAELIN, CALLED AS A WITNESS BY THE PEOPLE, WAS SWORN AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:
# 7 Q: GOOD MORNING, MR. KAELIN.
# 9 Q: WERE YOU ACQUAINTED WITH SOMEONE BY THE NAME OF NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON?
# 11 Q: WHEN DID YOU MEET HER?
# 13 Q: AND WHERE WAS THAT?
# 15 Q: YOU WERE FRIENDS?
# 17 Q: WAS THERE A ROMANTIC INVOLVEMENT BETWEEN YOU?
# 19 Q: DO YOU RECALL SEEING HER AGAIN IN JANUARY OF 1993?
# 21 Q: AND ON -- WHAT WAS THAT OCCASION?
# 22 A: THERE WAS A PARTY.
# 26 A: 325 GRETNA GREEN.
# 29 Q: NOW THAT PARTICULAR HOUSE, DID IT HAVE A GUEST HOUSE BEHIND IT?
# 31 Q: DID YOU SEE THAT GUEST HOUSE WHEN YOU WERE AT THE PARTY?
# 33 Q: DID YOU LIKE THAT GUEST HOUSE?
# 35 Q: WAS ANYONE LIVING IN IT AT THE TIME?
# 36 A: JUST FURNITURE; THAT WAS IT.
# 38 A: RIGHT. NO PERSON.
# 39 Q: DID THAT GIVE YOU SOME IDEAS?
# 41 Q: WHAT IDEA WAS THAT?
# 43 Q: AND WHO DID YOU TALK TO ABOUT THAT?
# 45 Q: DID YOU ASK TO MOVE INTO THE GUEST HOUSE?
# 47 Q: WHAT WAS YOUR ARRANGEMENT?
# 48 A: TO CLEAN OUT THE GUEST HOUSE AND TO MOVE IN.
# 49 Q: SO SHE AGREED TO LET YOU DO THAT?
# 53 Q: AND WHAT RENT WERE YOU PAYING?
# 54 A: IT WAS 450-TO $500. I SOMETIMES TOOK CARE OF THE KIDS AND SHE WOULD DEDUCT STUFF. SHE WAS VERY NICE ABOUT EVERYTHING.
# 55 Q: SO SHE WOULD GIVE MONEY OFF YOUR RENT IN RETURN FOR YOUR TAKING CARE OF THE CHILDREN?
# 57 Q: NOW, SHE LIVED IN THE MAIN HOUSE ON GRETNA GREEN?
# 59 Q: DID ANYBODY LIVE THERE WITH HER?
# 60 A: SIDNEY AND JUSTIN, HER CHILDREN.
# 61 Q: SIDNEY WAS HOW OLD THEN?
# 62 A: SIDNEY WAS SEVEN.
# 64 A: IS, I THINK, FOUR AND A HALF, FOUR AND THREE QUARTERS, AROUND THERE.
# 65 Q: YOU HAVE INDICATED A PERSON YOU KNEW AS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON. I AM SHOWING YOU WHAT'S BEEN MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 3, AND I ASK IF YOU RECOGNIZE THE PERSON SHOWN THERE.
# 69 Q: THE PERSON YOU HAVE BEEN REFERRING TO TODAY?
# 71 Q: DURING THAT TIME THAT YOU WERE LIVING ON GRETNA GREEN IN THAT GUEST HOUSE BEHIND THE HOUSE, DID YOU MEET THE
# 73 Q: AND WHEN I SAY, "THE DEFENDANT," DO YOU SEE SOMEONE IN COURT TODAY THAT I AM REFERRING TO? DO YOU SEE THAT PERSON IN COURT?
# 75 Q: AND WHAT IS HE WEARING?
# 76 A: A SUIT COAT AND TIE.
# 77 Q: COLOR OF THE SUIT?
# 78 A: BLUE, I THINK. DARK BLUE.
# 79 THE COURT: INDICATING THE DEFENDANT.
# 80 MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
# 81 Q: NOW THE HOUSE ON GRETNA GREEN, THE GUEST HOUSE, WAS THAT SEPARATED FROM THE MAIN HOUSE?
# 83 Q: AND FOR HOW LONG DID YOU LIVE THERE?
# 84 A: I LIVED THERE UNTIL JANUARY OF '94.
# 85 Q: WHAT HAPPENED IN JANUARY OF '94?
# 87 Q: WHY DID YOU MOVE?
# 88 A: BECAUSE THERE WAS ANOTHER PLACE TO MOVE TO.
# 89 Q: WHAT ABOUT NICOLE, DID SHE MOVE?
# 91 Q: WHERE DID SHE MOVE TO?
# 92 A: SHE MOVED TO BUNDY IN BRENTWOOD.
# 93 Q: YOU DID NOT MOVE WITH HER?
# 94 A: I DID NOT MOVE WITH HER.
# 95 Q: HAD YOU PLANNED TO MOVE WITH HER INITIALLY?
# 97 Q: THE BUNDY RESIDENCE, DID YOU SEE IT?
# 99 Q: DID IT HAVE A SEPARATE GUEST HOUSE?
# 101 Q: WHERE WERE YOU GOING TO STAY?
# 102 A: IT DIDN'T HAVE A SEPARATE GUEST HOUSE; IT HAD A SEPARATE ROOM -- I MEAN, IT WAS PART OF THE HOUSE, BUT IT WAS DOWN SOME STAIRS.
# 103 Q: SO YOU WERE GOING TO RENT A ROOM IN THAT HOUSE?
# 108 A: BECAUSE I HAD A CHANCE TO MOVE INTO ANOTHER PLACE.
# 109 Q: HOW DID THAT COME ABOUT?
# 110 A: O.J. ASKED ME TO MOVE INTO HIS PLACE.
# 111 Q: WHEN YOU SAY, "O.J.," YOU MEAN THE DEFENDANT?
# 113 Q: HE ASKED YOU TO MOVE INTO HIS PLACE?
# 114 A: THAT HE HAD A ROOM THAT I COULD HAVE GOTTEN FROM HIM.
# 115 Q: DID HE TELL YOU WHY HE WANTED YOU TO MOVE INTO HIS PLACE INSTEAD OF MOVING WITH NICOLE TO THE BUNDY ADDRESS?
# 116 A: IT WAS PROBABLY BETTER THAT I WOULD BE AT THE HOUSE. I --
# 117 Q: WHY DID HE TELL YOU IT WOULD BE BETTER FOR YOU TO BE AT HIS HOUSE?
# 118 A: I DON'T KNOW. I MEAN, IT WAS -- I WAS INSIDE THE HOUSE, AND IT WAS PROBABLY NOT RIGHT FOR ME TO BE INSIDE THE HOUSE INSTEAD OF A GUEST HOUSE. AND THAT WAY, I WOULDN'T BE INSIDE THE SAME HOUSE.
# 121 Q: IS THAT WHAT HE TOLD YOU?
# 122 A: I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT WORDS. IT WAS --
# 123 Q: WHAT DID HE TELL YOU, MR. KAELIN?
# 124 A: THAT HE HAD A PLACE AT HIS HOUSE, AND I COULD STAY THERE.
# 125 Q: AND WHY DID HE TELL YOU HE WANTED YOU TO DO THAT?
# 126 A: THAT IT WOULDN'T BE PROBABLY RIGHT THAT -- FOR ME TO BE IN THE HOUSE. THEY WERE TRYING TO WORK THINGS OUT. AND I AGREED, AND SO I SAID OKAY.
KEY QUOTE # 127 Q: SO HE TOLD YOU THAT HE AND NICOLE WERE TRYING TO WORK THINGS OUT AND IT WOULD BE BETTER IF YOU STAYED AT HIS PLACE?
# 128 A: YES. HE OFFERED HIS PLACE, AND I SAID OKAY.
# 129 Q: AND HOW MUCH RENT DID YOU PAY THE DEFENDANT TO STAY AT HIS PLACE?
# 130 A: NOTHING. IT WAS -- O.J. GAVE IT TO ME.
# 131 Q: THE DEFENDANT GAVE IT TO YOU FOR FREE?
# 133 Q: WHEN DID YOU MOVE IN?
# 135 Q: DO YOU SEE A DIAGRAM THERE TO YOUR LEFT?
# 137 Q: THIS DIAGRAM THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY MARKED PEOPLE'S 7 FOR IDENTIFICATION, DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT'S SHOWN IN IT?
# 140 A: IT IS THE HOUSE, HOW IT WOULD LOOK.
# 142 A: ON ROCKINGHAM, O.J.'S.
# 143 Q: THE ONE AT 360 ROCKINGHAM?
# 145 Q: NOW, CAN YOU SEE YOUR GUEST HOUSE ON THIS DIAGRAM?
# 147 Q: IT IS NOT SHOWN HERE, IS IT?
# 149 Q: IF THE DIAGRAM WERE TO EXTEND FARTHER BACK WHERE I AM STANDING, WHICH IS THE OPPOSITE END OF THE AREA MARKED ROCKINGHAM ON THIS DIAGRAM, WOULD THE GUEST HOUSE BE BACK HERE?
# 151 Q: BEHIND THE MAIN HOUSE?
# 153 Q: WHAT ELSE IS BACK THERE WHERE YOUR GUEST HOUSE IS?
# 154 A: THERE IS A POOL, JACUZZI, TENNIS COURTS, BASKETBALL COURTS, TOGETHER.
# 155 Q: IS THERE A POOL HOUSE AS WELL?
# 157 Q: DOES THE POOL HOUSE HAVE A BEDROOM IN IT?
# 159 Q: AND HOW MANY GUEST HOUSE UNITS ARE THERE?
# 161 Q: ARE THEY ALL TOGETHER OR SEPARATED?
# 163 Q: DO THEY HAVE COMMON WALLS? DO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
# 164 A: NO. YOU MEAN COMMON -- CAN I HEAR SOMEONE POUNDING?
# 165 Q: NO, NO, NO. THE GUEST HOUSES THAT ARE BEHIND THE MAIN HOUSE AT 360 ROCKINGHAM, ARE THEY ALL CONNECTED TOGETHER?
# 167 Q: SO THAT EACH OF THEM HAS A COMMON WALL?
# 169 Q: NOW THE AREA THAT IS SHOWN TO THE SOUTH OF THE GARAGE -- I AM GOING TO POINT IT OUT FOR YOU WITH MY PEN, THIS AREA RIGHT DOWN HERE, CAN YOU TELL US WHAT IS IN THAT AREA?
# 170 A: BACK THERE WOULD BE AIR CONDITIONING UNITS. IT IS LIKE THE BACK OF THE HOUSE. IT IS A LITTLE ALLEYWAY, SHRUBS, A LITTLE GATE THAT --
# 171 Q: IS THERE A CONCRETE WALKWAY THERE?
# 173 Q: AND IS IT OVERHUNG WITH SOME TREES COMING FROM THE OTHER PROPERTY?
# 175 Q: IS THERE A FENCE?
# 176 A: YES, I BELIEVE THERE IS, FROM THE OTHER -- YES, IT SEPARATES.
# 177 Q: SO IS THAT THE AREA THAT IS THE END OF THE PROPERTY OF 360 ROCKINGHAM? IN OTHER WORDS, IS THAT THE BOUNDARY BETWEEN THE 360 ROCKINGHAM ADDRESS AND THE NEIGHBOR'S HOUSE?
# 179 Q: DOES THE BACK OF YOUR GUEST HOUSE, THE WALL THAT IS THE BACK OF YOUR GUEST HOUSE, FACE ONTO THAT LITTLE WALKWAY?
# 181 Q: AND THE BACK OF YOUR AIR CONDITIONING UNIT ALSO HANGS OUT OVER THAT WALKWAY?
# 183 Q: IS YOUR AIR CONDITIONING UNIT INSTALLED IN A WINDOW OR A HOLE IN THE WALL?
# 184 A: IT IS A HOLE IN THE WALL.
# 185 Q: DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO JUNE THE 12TH, 1994, SUNDAY NIGHT -- OR EXCUSE ME, SUNDAY DAY, WHO WAS AT HOME IN THE HOUSE THAT DAY? WHO DID YOU SEE IN THE HOUSE AT 360 ROCKINGHAM?
# 190 A: I DIDN'T SEE ANYONE ELSE IN THE HOUSE, NO.
# 191 Q: WHAT TIME WAS IT WHEN YOU SAW THE DEFENDANT FOR THE FIRST TIME AT THE HOUSE ON 360 ROCKINGHAM?
# 192 A: I THINK IT WAS ABOUT 2:30 IN THE AFTERNOON.
# 193 Q: DID YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH HIM?
# 195 Q: AND WHAT WAS THAT CONVERSATION ABOUT?
# 196 A: I ASKED ABOUT HIS GOLF GAME. BECAUSE I KNEW HE WENT GOLFING.
# 197 Q: HE TOLD YOU HE WENT GOLFING?
# 200 A: YES, HE WENT GOLFING. I ASKED HOW HE DID. HE SAID HE DID GREAT. AND THEN HE PLAYED CARDS.
# 201 Q: DID HE SAY WHERE HE PLAYED CARDS?
# 203 Q: DID HE MENTION WHAT ELSE HE WAS GOING TO DO THAT DAY?
# 204 A: THERE WAS A DANCE RECITAL THAT HE WAS GOING TO GO TO.
# 206 A: FOR SIDNEY, HIS DAUGHTER.
# 207 Q: WHAT TIME WAS THAT RECITAL FOR HIS DAUGHTER, SIDNEY, SUPPOSED TO BEGIN?
# 209 Q: NOTICE ANYTHING UNUSUAL ABOUT THE DEFENDANT'S BEHAVIOR AT THAT TIME?
# 211 Q: DID HE MENTION ANYTHING TO YOU ABOUT NICOLE?
# 212 A: AT 2:30, AROUND THAT TIME?
# 215 Q: DO YOU RECALL HIM MENTIONING AT SOME POINT DURING THAT DAY THAT HE WAS THROUGH WITH NICOLE?
# 216 A: OH, THAT IT WAS OVER, THE RELATIONSHIP WAS OVER?
# 219 Q: WHEN DID HE TELL YOU THAT?
# 220 A: OH, IT WAS JUST SOMETHING IN KIND OF PASSING, THAT THEY WERE NOT TOGETHER ANYMORE.
# 221 Q: SOMETIME DURING THAT DAY?
# 225 Q: DO YOU RECALL WHAT TIME IT WAS?
# 226 A: IN THE AFTERNOON. I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT TIME.
# 227 Q: COULD IT HAVE BEEN AROUND THAT 2:30 TIME THAT YOU HAVE JUST --
# 228 A: IT WAS DURING OUR CONVERSATION, YES.
# 229 Q: AND WHEN HE TOLD YOU THAT -- WELL, CAN YOU RECOUNT FOR US HIS EXACT WORDS?
# 230 A: NO, NOT THE EXACT WORDS.
# 231 Q: CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE TONE OF VOICE IN WHICH HE TOLD YOU THAT?
# 233 Q: HE DID NOT SOUND ANGRY?
# 235 Q: WHAT WAS THE VERY NEXT TIME YOU SAW THE DEFENDANT THAT DAY?
# 236 A: I BELIEVE IT WAS AFTER THE RECITAL.
# 237 Q: ABOUT WHAT TIME WAS THAT?
# 238 A: I AM GUESSING ABOUT 6:30, 7:00, AROUND THERE. THE EXACT TIME, I DON'T KNOW, BUT I THINK THAT'S ABOUT --
# 240 A: YES, THE PLAY-OFF GAMES ENDED. THAT'S HOW I REMEMBER THAT.
# 241 Q: WHAT PLAY-OFF GAME WAS THAT?
# 242 A: HOUSTON AND THE NICKS. SO IT WAS AFTER THAT, ABOUT 6:30, 7:00.
# 243 Q: DID YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH THE DEFENDANT?
# 246 A: I ASKED HOW THE RECITAL WAS, AND HOW SIDNEY WAS, AND, "SHE WAS GREAT."
# 247 Q: IS THAT WHAT HE SAID, "SHE WAS GREAT"?
# 250 A: YES, "SHE WAS GREAT."
# 251 Q: YOU HAVE TO SAY "YES" OR "NO" BECAUSE THIS LADY DOES NOT HAVE A BUTTON FOR UH-HUH. OKAY?
# 252 A: SHE SHOULD GET ONE.
# 253 Q: AND WHAT WAS THE DEFENDANT'S MOOD LIKE AT THAT POINT, ABOUT 7:00 O'CLOCK?
# 254 A: NOT UPBEAT, NOT DOWNBEAT. I THOUGHT HE WAS TIRED.
# 255 Q: DID HE SEEM RELAXED?
# 257 Q: MAKE ANY MENTION OF NICOLE?
# 258 A: AT THE SECOND CONVERSATION?
# 259 Q: YES, AT ABOUT 7:00 O'CLOCK, DID THE DEFENDANT MENTION ANYTHING TO YOU ABOUT NICOLE?
# 260 A: THAT HE SAW HER AT THE DANCE RECITAL.
# 261 Q: AND WHAT ELSE DID HE SAY?
# 262 A: THAT HER AND A FRIEND, THEY WERE WEARING TIGHT OUTFITS.
# 265 Q: DID HE MAKE SOME MENTION ABOUT THAT, SOME -- DID HE MAKE SOME COMMENT ABOUT THAT?
# 266 A: IT WAS A COMMENT IF -- BEING ABLE TO DRESS THAT WAY WHEN THEY ARE OLDER.
# 267 Q: AND WHAT WAS HIS TONE OF VOICE? WAS IT ANGRY?
# 270 A: KIND OF MATTER OF FACT.
# 271 Q: WHAT WAS HE SAYING, HE WONDERED HOW THEY LOOKED IN THOSE OUTFITS WHEN THEY GOT OLDER?
# 273 Q: WAS THAT IT? I AM ASKING YOU.
# 274 A: OH, IT WAS -- THE EXACT WORDING, I DON'T KNOW. "IF THEY ARE GOING TO BE GRANDMAS, THEY CAN'T WEAR THOSE OUTFITS," SOMETHING LIKE THAT, "WHEN THEY ARE OLDER."
# 275 Q: OKAY. SO YOU SPOKE TO THE DEFENDANT FOR HOW LONG AT THAT POINT?
# 276 A: I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT -- HOW MANY MINUTES. ABOUT A HALF HOUR.
# 277 Q: WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THAT?
# 278 A: I ASKED IF I COULD TAKE A JACUZZI.
# 279 Q: AND DID HE SAY YES?
# 281 Q: DID YOU DO THAT?
# 283 Q: AND FOR HOW LONG DID YOU STAY IN THE JACUZZI?
# 284 A: I STAYED IN THERE ABOUT A HALF HOUR.
# 285 Q: HAD YOU EVER USED THE JACUZZI BEFORE?
# 287 Q: IS THAT THE FIRST TIME?
# 288 A: YES, I SWAM IN IT BEFORE, BUT I NEVER ACTUALLY USED IT, SAT IN IT TO USE IT.
# 289 Q: IS -- HOW LONG DID YOU STAY IN THE JACUZZI?
# 290 A: I THINK IT WAS ABOUT A HALF HOUR.
# 291 Q: SO YOU GOT OUT ABOUT WHEN?
# 292 A: I THINK WHEN I GOT OUT OF THERE IT WAS ABOUT 8:30, ABOUT.
# 293 Q: AND AFTER YOU GOT OUT OF THE JACUZZI, WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?
# 294 A: I MADE A PHONE CALL.
# 296 A: TO A FRIEND NAMED SUSAN.
# 297 Q: AND WHILE YOU WERE ON THE PHONE, DID YOU HAVE CONTACT -- WHEN YOU WERE ON THE PHONE WITH SUSAN, DID YOU HAVE CONTACT WITH SOMEONE ELSE?
# 298 A: NO, I DON'T THINK IT WAS --
# 299 Q: DID YOU SEE THE DEFENDANT WHILE YOU WERE ON THE PHONE WITH SUSAN?
# 300 A: NO. I THINK IT WAS AFTER, HE CAME TO MY ROOM.
# 301 Q: THE DEFENDANT CAME TO YOUR ROOM?
# 303 Q: AND WHAT DID HE SAY TO YOU?
# 304 A: THAT I FORGOT TO TURN THE JACUZZI OFF.
# 305 Q: AND BY THAT TIME WERE YOU STILL ON THE PHONE WITH SUSAN, OR HAD YOU HUNG UP?
# 306 A: I THINK I HUNG UP.
# 307 Q: AND WHAT DID THE DEFENDANT SAY TO YOU?
# 308 A: TO REMEMBER TO TURN OFF THE JACUZZI NEXT TIME I USE IT. AND HE ASKED ME IF I WAS DONE WITH THE JACUZZI, AND I SAID, "YES, I AM DONE. SORRY THAT I DIDN'T TURN IT OFF."
# 309 Q: DID YOU COME OUT OF YOUR ROOM TO SAY THAT TO HIM, TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION?
# 310 A: I WAS AT MY DOORWAY, I BELIEVE.
# 312 A: OUTSIDE THE DOOR.
# 313 Q: HOW MANY FEET AWAY WERE YOU FROM EACH OTHER?
# 314 A: I THINK THREE FEET.
# 315 Q: DID YOU NOTICE ANY INJURY TO HIS HANDS OR THAT HE WAS BLEEDING FROM HIS HANDS IN ANYWAY?
# 317 Q: WAS THERE ANYTHING UNUSUAL ABOUT HIS BEHAVIOR AT THAT TIME?
# 319 Q: SO HE TOLD YOU THAT YOU HAD LEFT THE JETS ON IN THE JACUZZI?
# 321 Q: WHAT ELSE DID HE SAY?
# 322 A: NEXT TIME I USE IT, TURN IT OFF, THE JETS.
# 323 Q: DID YOU GO AND TURN OFF THE JETS THEN?
# 324 A: NO. HE HAD TURNED THE JETS OFF.
# 325 Q: AND WHAT DID YOU DO AFTER THAT?
# 326 A: I MADE A PHONE CALL.
# 327 Q: SO YOU WENT BACK IN YOUR ROOM?
# 328 A: I WENT BACK IN MY ROOM.
# 329 Q: AND WHO DID YOU CALL THIS TIME?
# 330 A: A FRIEND OF MINE, TOM.
# 331 Q: AND DURING THAT PHONE CALL, DID YOU HAVE CONTACT WITH THE DEFENDANT?
# 334 A: HE CAME BY, AND HE NEEDED TO BORROW MONEY TO -- BECAUSE HE HAD $100 BILLS, AND HE WANTED TO HAVE FIVE FOR A SKY CAB, TO TIP THE SKY CAB. AND SO I LENT HIM MONEY.
# 335 Q: NOW, WHEN HE CAME OUT TO THE GUEST HOUSE AT THAT POINT WHILE YOU WERE ON THE PHONE WITH TOM, DID HE CALL OUT TO YOU, OR DID HE JUST SHOW UP AT YOUR DOOR AND KNOCK?
# 336 A: OH, HE CALLED OUT TO ME.
# 337 Q: WHAT DID HE CALL YOU? BY WHAT NAME?
# 339 Q: IS THAT YOUR NICKNAME?
# 341 Q: SO HE ASKED TO BORROW MONEY FOR A SKY CAB?
# 342 A: SKY CAB. AND HE WAS GOING TO GET A BURGER.
# 343 Q: AND WHAT WAS YOUR RESPONSE?
# 344 A: "SURE. WHAT DO YOU NEED?" WHATEVER I HAD.
# 345 Q: SO DID YOU GET MONEY FOR HIM?
# 347 Q: HOW MUCH MONEY DID YOU GIVE HIM?
# 349 Q: AND DID YOU PUT THAT -- WAS IT A $20 BILL?
# 351 Q: DID YOU PUT IT IN HIS HAND?
# 353 Q: DID YOU NOTICE ANY INJURY TO HIS HAND?
# 355 Q: WHAT WAS THE DEFENDANT WEARING AT THAT TIME?
# 356 A: I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT CLOTHING. I THOUGHT IT WAS A SWEAT OUTFIT.
# 357 Q: SWEAT OUTFIT, LIKE SWEATSHIRT OR NYLON-TYPE?
# 358 A: A WARMUP, I BELIEVE. I MEAN, I AM NOT POSITIVE ON THAT, BUT I THINK IT WAS A WARMUP OUTFIT.
# 359 Q: COULD YOU -- CAN YOU REMEMBER WHAT KIND OF MATERIAL IT WAS, OR COULD YOU TELL AT THE TIME?
# 360 A: NO, I COULD NOT.
# 361 Q: WHAT COLOR WAS IT?
# 366 A: I MEAN IT WAS DARK OUT, SO IT WAS A DARK COLOR. I MEAN, IT COULD HAVE BEEN DARK BLUE OR BLACK.
# 369 Q: ALL RIGHT. DID IT HAVE LONG SLEEVES?
# 371 Q: AFTER YOU GAVE THE DEFENDANT A $20 BILL, WHAT DID YOU NEXT DO?
# 372 A: OH, I ASKED IF I COULD GO TO MC DONALD'S WITH HIM.
# 375 Q: WHAT DID YOU DO?
# 376 A: I WENT TO MC DONALD'S WITH HIM.
# 377 Q: OKAY. DID YOU LEAVE?
# 379 Q: DID YOU WALK THROUGH THE MAIN HOUSE TO DO THAT?
# 381 Q: AND DID YOU GET INTO A CAR WITH HIM?
# 383 Q: WHAT CAR DID YOU GET INTO?
# 384 A: HIS ROLLS ROYCE.
# 385 Q: WHO DROVE? A O.J. Q THE DEFENDANT A YES Can you look at the diagram to your left -- that's People's 7 -- and indicate, if you will, where the Rolls Royce was parked when you got into it that night to go to McDonald's?
# 389 MS. CLARK: For the record, the witness is pointing.
# 391 Q: Will you please take the pen and put an 'R' there.
# 392 MS. CLARK: For the record, the witness has placed an 'R', a large 'R', on the diagram.
# 394 Q: Let me ask you, sir, if you would point out on this diagram, if you can, on these photographs that have been marked as People's 6, if you can see the area where the Rolls was parked that night when you went out to Mc Donald's, and was it parked in the same place that's shown in the photograph labeled as 'F'?
# 396 Q: Was it pointing out towards the Rockingham gate that way as well?
# 398 Q: Was that usually where that Rolls Royce was kept parked, sir?
# 400 Q: What time was it when you left to get burgers?
# 401 A: It was about 9:10.
# 402 Q: And what gate did you exit through?
# 405 A: The gate that's on Rockingham.
# 406 Q: The Rockingham gate. Is that the gate shown in photograph 'F' of People's 6?
# 408 Q: Did you notice any injury to the defendant's hands as he drove the Rolls Royce to go get something to eat?
# 410 Q: When you left out, when you went out the Rockingham gate, did you look to see whether there were any cars parked near the Rockingham gate?
# 412 Q: Do you know, sir, whether the defendant owned a white Ford Bronco?
# 413 A: Did I know if he owned one?
# 416 Q: Had you seen it around the property?
# 418 Q: And have you seen it around the property from the time you moved in in January of '94?
# 420 Q: Was there one particular place where he would always park it?
# 421 A: It wasn't -- it could be in the driveway. It was on Ashford, you know, the street Ashford. It was inside the gated area. It wasn't a set spot ever. I mean, but normally my car would be parked on Ashford with it.
# 422 Q: So you used to park either in front or behind the white Ford Bronco?
# 423 A: Yeah, on the same road.
# 424 Q: And that would be on the Ashford side?
# 425 A: Um-hum. The Ashford side.
# 426 Q: And that would be inside the gate?
# 427 A: No. It could be -- it's on -- it could be parked outside, it could be parked inside. Normally it was parked outside on Ashford.
# 428 Q: Normally parked outside the Ashford gate; is that right?
# 429 A: The Ashford side; correct.
# 430 Q: Can you tell us -- yes. Do you see the Ashford side gate in these photographs, sir?
# 432 Q: Which one is that?
# 434 MS. CLARK: And for the record, when I say "these photographs," again I was referring to People's 6. \ \
# 436 Q: Now the white Ford Bronco I have been referring to --
# 437 MS. CLARK: Your Honor, I ask that this series of photographs labeled 'A' through 'F' be marked collectively as People's 8.
# 438 THE COURT: All right.
# 440 Q: Can you see these photographs, Mr. Kaelin?
# 442 Q: Can you tell us if you recognize the vehicle shown in photograph 'A' of People's 8?
# 443 A: Do I recognize it? Yes. The Bronco, yes.
# 444 Q: Is that the white Ford Bronco that you recognize as belonging to the defendant?
# 446 Q: And the one that was parked -- that was always parked at the Ashford side gate.
# 447 A: It was -- yeah. It was -- that's the white Bronco, yes.
# 448 MR. SHAPIRO: Your Honor, I'm going to object to --
# 449 MS. CLARK: May I --
# 450 MR. SHAPIRO: Excuse me. May I complete my objection?
# 452 MR. SHAPIRO: I'm going to object to the statement by the prosecutor that it was always parked on the Ashford side gate. That misstates the evidence.
# 453 THE COURT: Sustained.
# 455 Q: Was that white Ford Bronco, to your knowledge, when you were living there from January of '94 through June of '94, was that vehicle, the white Ford Bronco, always parked at the Ashford gate?
# 456 A: Not always. But it would be parked on Ashford. But not always on Ashford.
# 457 Q: Where else would it be parked?
# 458 A: It could be parked inside the lot and --
# 459 Q: If it was parked inside the gate, would it be on the Ashford side of the gate, the Ashford gate that it was parked? Do you know what I mean? You have the other driveway that goes -- the driveway that leads to the Ashford gate, and you have the driveway that leads to the Rockingham gate; right?
# 461 Q: If it was parked inside of the gate, would it be parked on the Ashford side of the driveway?
# 462 A: The front of the house, it would be parked in the front of the house, so he'd have to back it up, I guess, to go -- you could go through either way.
# 463 Q: You could go through and go out Rockingham or else go through and go out Ashford?
# 464 A: With the gate, correct.
# 465 Q: And when it was parked outside the gate, though, was it parked on Ashford?
# 466 A: Well, most of the time it would be on Ashford.
# 467 Q: So is it your testimony, sir, that it was normally parked on the Ashford side, outside the Ashford gate?
# 469 Q: On the way to Mc Donald's, did you happen to notice the time?
# 471 Q: And where were you when you noticed what time it was?
# 472 A: At 26th and San Vicente. It's a stop light.
# 473 Q: What time was it when you got to 26th and San Vicente?
# 474 A: It was 9:18. 9:15 or 9:18. It was right in there on his clock in the car.
# 475 Q: How long after that did you get to Mc Donald's?
# 476 A: About seven minutes.
# 477 Q: And did you go into the restaurant or did you drive to the take-up window -- the take-out window?
# 478 A: The drive-through window.
# 479 Q: The drive-through window, thank you. Was that on your side or on the defendant's side?
# 480 A: On -- it was on the driver's side, the window.
# 481 Q: When he pulled up to the window, did you have to pay first and then get your food later?
# 483 Q: Who paid for the food?
# 484 A: I paid 'cause he had 20's and I had another 20, so I paid for the food.
# 485 Q: Did you hand a second $20 bill then to the
# 487 Q: And what did he do with that $20 bill you gave him in the car?
# 488 A: Paid Mc Donald's.
# 489 Q: Did you see him do that?
# 491 Q: And did he get change back?
# 493 Q: Okay. Did you notice any injury to his hands at that time?
# 495 Q: Did you drive forward and get the food at the second window?
# 497 Q: Did he take that food?
# 499 Q: What did he do with it?
# 500 A: He took the food.
# 501 Q: Yes. Where did he put it?
# 502 A: The bag was in his lap. Then he gave me the -- my stuff, my food.
# 503 Q: So he was -- and what did he do with his food?
# 505 Q: And he drove at the same time?
# 507 Q: And he did that on the way back to the house at Rockingham?
# 509 Q: Did you eat your food as well?
# 510 A: No. I had a few French fries, but that was it, and I didn't eat the main course.
# 511 Q: If you can call it that.
# 513 Q: So he drove and he ate his dinner at the same time on the way back to Rockingham.
# 515 Q: Did you notice any injury to his hands at that time?
# 519 Q: What time did you get home?
# 520 A: About 9:40, 9:45. Around there.
# 521 Q: Which gate did you enter through, Ashford or Rockingham?
# 522 A: I don't remember.
# 523 Q: Do you remember where the car -- where the
# 524 A: Same spot. In that picture we saw before.
# 525 Q: The spot you indicated on --
# 527 Q: Thank you. Photograph 'F' of People's 6. All right. Would you describe the defendant's demeanor at that time when you got back from Mc Donald's. How did he appear to you?
# 528 A: He looked tired.
# 530 A: I thought tired, yes.
# 531 Q: Other than that, anything unusual?
# 533 Q: What did you do when you got back to the residence?
# 534 A: I got out and went to my room to eat.
# 535 Q: You took your food back to your room?
# 537 Q: Did you see where the defendant went?
# 538 A: No, I did not. He got out of the car so --
# 539 Q: Now, who else was in the house that night when you came back from Mc Donald's? Other than you and the
# 540 A: Not that I knew of, no.
# 541 Q: Can you tell us who usually occupied the other two guest units?
# 542 A: Arnelle, O.J.'s daughter, and the maid, housekeeper.
# 543 Q: Housekeeper. Were you acquainted with the defendant's -- one of the defendant's sons named Jason?
# 544 A: Yes, I know Jason.
# 545 Q: And approximately how old is he?
# 547 Q: Did he have a guest unit there that he stayed in?
# 549 Q: Did you see him there that day?
# 551 Q: Was he there that night?
# 553 Q: So neither Arnelle nor Jason was there that night?
# 556 A: From what I knew. I didn't see them, so, no, they weren't.
# 557 Q: And the housekeeper that the defendant had who stayed in the third unit, guest unit, was she there that night?
# 559 Q: When you got back to your room, what did you do?
# 560 A: I ate my sandwich and called my friend back up.
# 561 Q: For how long did you talk to your friend?
# 562 A: I think about 10, 15 minutes.
# 563 Q: And what did you do after that?
# 564 A: After that I was going to type up some letters, so I went to type up some letters but the typewriter wasn't working, so I made another phone call.
# 565 Q: Who did you call?
# 566 A: My friend, Rachael.
# 567 Q: And what time was it when you called her?
# 568 A: I called her at about 10:10, around there.
# 569 Q: During that phone call, did something unusual occur?
# 570 A: Yeah. I heard a noise.
# 571 Q: Now how long had you been talking to your friend Rachael when you heard that noise?
# 572 A: It was probably a half hour into the conversation.
# 573 Q: Okay. So about 10:45 or so you heard a noise?
# 574 A: About that time.
# 575 Q: Can you describe for us the noise you heard, Mr. Kaelin?
# 576 A: It was -- you know, my room, it has this wall and it was a -- (Noise made) like that.
KEY QUOTE # 577 MS. CLARK: For the record, the witness thumped on the witness stand with his fist.
# 578 THE COURT: You hit the witness stand like three times or so. Was it three noises that you heard?
# 579 BRIAN "KATO" KAELIN: I believe it was three noises. It was a thumping.
# 581 Q: It sounded like three thumps?
# 583 Q: And where did the thumps seem to come from?
# 584 A: Right behind the bedroom wall where my bed would be.
# 585 Q: You said you have an air conditioning unit in the hole in the wall?
# 587 Q: Was it in the same wall that the air conditioning unit was in?
# 589 Q: Was it near the air conditioning unit that the thump seemed to come from?
# 591 Q: What happened when you heard those thumps?
# 592 A: Well, I was on the phone and I said -- I asked Rachael, I said, "I think we had a earthquake. Did we have an earthquake?" And, "no," she said. And I noticed my picture moved, so I started thinking that maybe it was a person back there. And then I have this little flashlight and I was going to investigate.
# 593 Q: So there was a picture on that wall also.
# 594 (No audible response.) # 596 A: Yes, it was a picture.
# 597 Q: And that moved when you heard the noises?
# 598 A: Yes. It almost moved off the wall.
# 599 Q: Now, the area that you're talking about, if this diagram were to go farther to your left, my right, it would be along this pathway, this south pathway that you've traced with a line here? That's just below the garage on the diagram?
# 601 Q: And the wall of your guest house that you're referring to where you heard the thumps is the wall that faces onto that little pathway?
# 603 Q: Okay. So after you heard those thumps, you indicated before you thought it was an earthquake or maybe someone outside?
# 604 A: Right. I said to her on the phone, I said as a joke, "if I don't call back in ten minutes, start to worry."
KEY QUOTE # 605 Q: And were you worried?
# 607 Q: Were you scared?
# 609 Q: Did you think it might be a prowler?
# 611 Q: So what did you do?
# 612 A: Well, I got the little flashlight and I went out to check on the noise.
# 613 Q: Now, you hung up the phone how long after you heard the thumps?
# 614 A: About two to three minutes. Pretty -- pretty fast I hung up the phone.
# 616 A: I'm pretty sure I did. I might have talked about the noise for a bit but then I hung up and said I was going to go and do it and check on it. So two or three minutes.
# 617 Q: Do you recall testifying before the grand jury that it was one to five minutes?
# 618 A: Yes. That's in the range.
# 619 Q: That's in the range, yes. It could have been as little as one minute?
# 620 A: It might have been, yes.
# 621 Q: So the time between hearing the thumps and you hanging up the phone could have been as little as one minute, as much as five minutes?
# 623 Q: You took the flashlight with you.
# 625 Q: Where did you go?
# 626 A: To the area from my room, I went around and went to the garage area.
# 627 Q: When you say you went to the garage area, what part of the garage area did you go to?
# 628 A: Well, I walked down the pathway just a bit.
# 629 Q: And you mean the area you've indicated earlier that would be just below where it's indicating "garage" on that diagram? Again, you are pointing to it now. Is that the area where you've kind of previously drawn a line?
# 631 Q: How did you get to that area? What path did you take to get there?
# 634 A: I -- there's a path that I followed to the front area.
# 635 Q: So did you walk through the pool area?
# 636 A: Through the pool area, and then --
# 637 Q: And is there a grassy portion on the Ashford side of the house?
# 638 A: There's grass, right, but I stayed on the cement.
# 639 Q: You stayed on the path?
# 640 A: And walked to that area.
# 641 Q: So the garage area?
# 643 Q: When you came out on the path, on the Ashford side of the house, can you show us that path and mark it?
# 644 A: Say it again? What was it?
# 645 Q: The path that you say you walked on.
# 647 Q: That's on the Ashford side of the house. Could you please mark that on the diagram.
# 648 A: As I was coming from my room back here, this would be the path right here. Like that.
# 649 MS. CLARK: For the record, the witness has traced a path --
# 651 Q: I would like for you to mark that path --
# 653 Q: Yes. Mark the path indicating where -- put a 'B' -- no, no, we already have a 'B'. Put a 'K' on that path. Thank you, Mr. Kaelin.
# 654 MS. CLARK: And the witness has marked the path with a 'K' where he's indicated.
# 655 THE COURT: All right.
# 657 Q: So you walked down that path to the driveway, down the driveway, past the garage, and down the south -- over to the southern corner of the garage?
# 658 A: I only went so far the first time. About that far.
# 659 Q: For the record, why don't you mark where that is. Put K-1. You can step down. Thank you.
# 660 MS. CLARK: For the record, the witness has placed K-1 on the diagram.
# 662 Q: That's where you stopped?
# 664 Q: When you first came out on the path, sir, did you notice anything or anyone in the driveway or at the gate?
# 666 Q: Did you see anyone sitting in the car?
# 667 A: I couldn't tell if someone was in the car or not. It was just the car was there.
# 668 Q: Did you stop to talk to that person or let them in the gate?
# 669 A: Not the first time.
# 671 A: Because I figured there was an intercom phone there, that the person took care of everything. He probably called the house.
# 672 Q: Can the gate be opened from inside the house electronically?
# 674 Q: Now, when you went around to the Ashford side gate -- when you first came out on the path, were the lights in the house on or off?
# 675 A: The light upstairs I think was on.
# 676 Q: How about downstairs?
# 677 A: No, I didn't notice any lights on downstairs.
# 678 Q: So did it appear to you that the lights downstairs were off when you first came out on that path?
# 679 A: I don't remember. The lights inside the house?
# 680 Q: Inside the house, downstairs.
# 681 A: I don't remember if lights were on or off. I think it was dark.
# 682 Q: After you got to that point on the path of the garage -- strike that.
# 683 A: I think the lights were on. I'm -- God. I think the lights were on. It's a matter -- I think they were on.
# 684 Q: I just want to know what you remember. Do you remember?
# 685 A: I don't know for sure. I don't know.
# 686 Q: You're not sure if the lights were on or off downstairs?
# 687 A: Correct; correct.
# 688 Q: I'm talking about the point where you first came out on the path and saw the limo driver.
# 690 Q: You're not certain.
# 691 A: I'm not certain.
# 692 Q: You walked down to the portion of the garage that you indicated with K-1?
# 694 Q: Why did you stop there?
# 695 A: I was -- my light wasn't working very well and I was scared and I decided to come back.
# 696 Q: Okay. Was it very dark back there?
# 698 Q: So you came back out. What happened next?
# 699 A: Well, then I noticed the limo was still parked there and I went, "geez, I should let this guy in, I guess, he's waiting." So I pressed the button and the gate opened up and he drove up.
# 700 Q: Now, why were you going over to that area of the garage at the southern portion of the property?
# 701 A: I was going to check on that noise.
# 702 Q: And that's where you thought the sound came from?
# 703 A: Well, it was further down, but I never made it down all the way.
# 704 Q: When you say "it was further down," towards where? You mean by your guest house, on that path?
# 706 Q: When you turned around and came back from the garage, you went and opened the gate for the limo driver?
# 708 Q: And he drove in?
# 710 Q: What happened next?
# 711 A: He drove in and he got out of the car and I asked if O.J. overslept or what was going on because it was getting late. I figured it was pretty late right now. He said he was coming up from Redondo. And we had some -- I can't remember all the dialogue, but I remember he came up from Redondo. Oh, and I asked him -- I asked him if we had an earthquake, and I was trying to see if maybe we did. And he said, "no, not that I'm aware of." And I said, "well, I heard this noise." And I told him I was going to investigate and I felt safer if someone was there, so I was going to check on it again.
# 712 Q: So when you saw the limo driver there you felt safer?
# 714 Q: And you thought you'd go and check on it again?
# 715 A: That I would, yes.
# 716 Q: When you walked down the driveway the first time towards the garage area, right, and walked back, can you tell us if you noticed anything near the Rolls Royce on the ground?
# 717 A: Um, there was a bag. I mean, it was like a knapsack, I think, kind of bag.
# 718 Q: Where in relation to the Rolls Royce was it?
# 719 MS. CLARK: For the record, the witness has pointed to a 'B' on the diagram.
# 721 Q: Is that where you think the bag was?
# 723 Q: Can you describe it a little better?
# 724 A: It was dark. I didn't know the color. I imagine it was dark black or blue. And I thought it had a little brown leather kind of square patch.
KEY QUOTE # 725 Q: Okay. You had a conversation with the limo driver?
# 727 Q: You talked about the earthquake. And at some point did you complete the conversation?
# 729 Q: What did you do after that?
# 730 A: Well, even during that, I think it was during that that I also -- I helped load up a golf bag in the trunk of the limo.
# 732 A: And then I went back there, went a little further down the path, and then I got -- there's a gate that if I --
# 733 Q: So, wait. You had loaded a golf bag into the trunk of the limo?
# 735 Q: And then you walked back to the garage area.
# 737 Q: And you went down to that southern portion that you've marked with a K-1 earlier?
# 739 Q: You had a flashlight with you?
# 741 Q: And did you -- you indicate now that there's a gate there?
# 742 A: There's two gates, right. One --
# 743 Q: Where is the first one?
# 744 A: The first one's right about there.
# 745 Q: For the record, why don't you put 'G' -- actually, put a G-1.
# 746 A: You want me to mark the second one too?
# 747 Q: Yes. There's a second gate?
# 750 MS. CLARK: For the record, the witness has placed G-1 and G-2.
# 752 Q: G-1 is closer to the Rockingham exit; right?
# 753 A: Yes. It's not really working.
# 754 Q: It's not really working?
# 755 A: I mean, you have to pick it up, kind of, to move it.
# 756 Q: Is it locked, kept locked?
# 757 A: No. It's just kind of leaning up against a tree.
# 758 Q: The second gate, where is that in relation to your guest house?
# 759 A: How close is it to my guest house?
# 762 Q: And how do you open that gate, the second one?
# 764 Q: This time did you swing it up?
# 765 A: No, I got to the gate and I turned around.
# 767 A: I had this little pen light flashlight, it was very dim and I was scared, so I walked back up.
# 768 Q: So you never went all the way down to where you thought you heard the noises come from?
# 770 MS. CLARK: I have here a series of photographs, Your Honor. Again, ask they be marked People's 9. They are labeled 'A' through 'E'.
# 771 THE COURT: All right.
# 773 Q: Showing you the photographs that have been marked labeled 'A' through 'E'. I'm directing your attention now specifically at this time to photograph 'A'. Do you recognize the location being shown in that photograph, sir?
# 776 A: That would be the back of my guest room.
# 777 Q: The wall shown here is the back of your guest room?
# 779 Q: And the air conditioning unit that you see there hanging over the walk, is that the air conditioning unit that is in your wall?
# 781 Q: And that's the air conditioning unit near where you heard the thumps come from?
# 783 Q: So this would be the area that you were --
# 784 MS. CLARK: And I'm indicating for the record, Your Honor, in photograph 'A', the walkway that is just before, leading up to the air conditioner.
# 786 Q: This was the area that you never made it down to?
# 788 Q: When you were trying to find out what happened in the wall, on the wall that night?
# 790 Q: And is that the same area that's shown in photograph 'B'?
# 792 Q: The fence that you can see in photographs 'A', 'B' and 'C', I guess, are those -- is that the fence that divides the property of 360 Rockingham from the neighbors?
# 794 Q: When you were attempting to go down to that area shown on photograph 'A' of People's 9, were you trying to -- was there a dog in the -- on the property that night?
# 796 Q: What was that dog's name?
# 798 Q: And were you with the dog that night?
# 799 A: Well, when I was going to go back there, I said, "Chachi, come to me," and he ran away. I said, "great, great watch dog."
# 800 Q: So you went to the second gate this time and then you came back out?
# 802 Q: You went to the second gate this time.
# 804 Q: Up to the second gate that leads to the area shown in photograph 'A' of People's 9?
# 806 Q: And then you turned around and went back?
# 808 Q: What did you do when you came back?
# 809 A: I came back to the front area and --
# 810 Q: Okay. The bag that you indicated you pointed to that's labeled with a 'B' for the position, was that in an area of darkness?
# 812 Q: Had you ever seen it before?
# 814 Q: When you came back -- so you actually went down to the garage area, the southern portion of the garage area, twice?
# 816 Q: The first time before you opened the gate for the driver?
# 818 Q: And the second time after you let him in and had a brief conversation with him?
# 820 Q: When you came back out from that area after visiting it the second time, who did you see out in the front area?
# 821 A: That was the limo driver, O.J. and myself.
# 822 Q: You mean the defendant?
# 824 Q: You saw the defendant with the limo driver?
# 825 A: We were all outside.
# 826 Q: What were they doing?
# 827 A: I think packing, getting ready to go to the airport.
# 828 Q: Did you offer to go and get that bag that was marked with a 'B' on this diagram?
# 829 A: That I was going to take it, pack it, yes.
# 830 Q: Did you offer to get it for the defendant?
# 832 Q: What was his response?
# 834 Q: He said he would get it?
# 836 Q: So you did not see the defendant come out of the front door.
# 838 Q: He was always out when you got back from the garage area?
# 839 A: Yes, we were all outside.
# 840 Q: Did you -- did you discuss with the defendant the earthquake that you thought you felt or the prowler that you thought might be there?
# 842 Q: What did you say?
# 843 A: I said, "O.J., I heard this noise. I thought something might be back there. And this flash -- "
# 844 Q: Were you still pretty excited about that?
# 846 Q: Were you still pretty excited or frightened about that?
# 847 A: Yeah. So I said, "this flashlight doesn't work very well, and I need a better one." So I asked the limo driver if he had a flashlight and he said "no." Then I asked O.J. and he said, "go inside and we'll check for one."
# 848 Q: And then did the defendant go back in the house?
# 850 Q: Did you go with him?
# 851 A: Yes. I was behind him.
# 852 Q: What happened then?
# 853 A: Um, went into the house and then O.J. said, "is that the right time?" And I was behind him. And I said, "yeah." So he had to catch his flight so I hurried up, got him to get going. I said, "come on, got to catch the flight." So then he got in the limo.
# 854 Q: Now, do you recall talk -- do you recall having a conversation, after you told the defendant about the earthquake, in which you agreed to both search the property?
# 856 Q: What did he say? What did he tell you?
# 857 A: That we'd check it together.
# 858 Q: And then what did you do?
# 859 A: We were going to get a flashlight, so I didn't get the flashlight, so I never checked on it again after he left.
# 860 Q: So you did not separate and go look around the property?
# 862 Q: Approximately how much time did you spend with the defendant at the point that you saw him getting ready to leave in the limo?
# 863 A: How much time did I spend with him before -- three minutes. Three to five.
# 864 Q: Very brief contact?
# 866 Q: How did he appear to you at that time?
# 867 A: Hurrying for his flight.
# 870 Q: Did you have a lot of opportunity to watch him or look at him?
# 872 Q: Very brief contact?
# 874 Q: Did you see him get into the limo?
# 876 Q: Did you notice any injury to his hands?
# 878 Q: Which gate did the limo drive out of?
# 880 Q: Now, that gate, do you know how it operates?
# 881 A: The -- sure. You press a button and it opens up.
# 882 Q: And did you press that button?
# 884 Q: Can that button also be pressed from inside the house?
# 886 Q: Can you open the gate from inside the house?
# 888 Q: When it closes, does it lock automatically?
# 890 Q: The front door to the house of 360 Rockingham, is that always kept locked?
# 892 Q: Do you know if -- who has a key to that door, to that front door?
# 895 A: That I know, it's O.J. and Arnelle. And I think Gigi, the house --
# 896 Q: Did you have one?
# 899 A: Gigi is the housekeeper.
# 900 Q: And you did not have one?
# 901 A: I did not have a key.
# 902 Q: Does the ash -- strike that. If you wanted to get into the Rockingham gate without being buzzed in from the house, could you open it with a key?
# 903 A: The Rockingham gate, yes.
# 904 Q: What about the Ashford gate?
# 905 A: The Ashford gate, you can get in other ways too.
# 906 Q: Does the Ashford gate lock automatically?
# 907 A: It locks automatically, but there's a hinge that you can open the gate up that I use a lot.
# 908 Q: So without somebody buzzing you in or a key, you could still get in?
# 910 Q: Can that gate also be locked?
# 912 Q: So that you would need a key to get in?
# 913 A: Oh, on the Ashford?
# 915 A: No. It's an intercom or phone that goes direct -- that they ring you in.
# 917 A: But there's not a key.
# 918 Q: But there's not a key.
# 919 A: Not that I'm aware of, no.
# 920 Q: Only the Rockingham side could be opened from the outside with a key?
# 921 A: There's a key. Rockingham I know you need a key.
# 922 Q: After the defendant left, what did you do?
# 923 A: Oh, I got back on the phone. I went to my room on the phone again.
# 924 Q: Again. Who did you call?
# 926 Q: Okay. Was that call interrupted?
# 929 A: Um, O.J. called and said that he forgot the alarm, so I should alarm the house.
# 930 Q: The defendant called to say that you should set the alarm on the house?
# 932 Q: Had you ever done that before?
# 934 Q: So did you know how to set the alarm on the house?
# 936 Q: Did he explain how?
# 938 Q: And did he have to give you some instructions or a code or something?
# 940 Q: And did he give you that code?
# 942 Q: And what did you do then?
# 943 A: Believe it or not, I got off the phone again and I coded the house.
# 944 Q: Okay. Had you ever been asked to do that before?
# 945 MR. SHAPIRO: It's been asked and answered.
# 946 THE COURT: Sustained.