Direct examination of O.J. Simpson by Daniel Petrocelli

📄 Direct examination of O.J. Simpson by Daniel Petrocelli — Tuesday, January 23, 1996

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C:\DEPT103\DEPOSITION\1996\JAN\23\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-O-J-SIMP.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 2 of 31

◀ Direct examination of O.J. Simpson by Daniel Petrocelli Cross-examination of O.J. Simpson by Robert Baker ▶

Witness: O.J. Simpson
Examiner: Daniel Petrocelli
Called by: Plaintiff • Date: Tuesday, January 23, 1996 • Utterances: 4332

Petrocelli's resumed direct examination of Simpson covers a wide range of topics: the chain of custody of Simpson's black bag on June 13, his stay at Kardashian's house during the week after the murders, Simpson's denial of all drug use, his knowledge of Faye Resnick's intervention and Nicole's alleged drug use, calendar records maintained by assistant Cathy Randa (and whether she shredded documents), and Simpson's visits to the Bundy property in the days and weeks before the murders — including the layout of the property's entrances and the back alley walkway.

# 1 MR. PETROCELLI:

Daniel Petrocelli for Fredric Goldman.

# 2 MR. GELBLUM:

Peter Gelblum for Fredric Goldman.

# 3 MR. MEDVENE:

Edward Medvene for Fredric Goldman

# 4 MR. BREWER:

Michael Brewer, Sharon Rufo.

# 5 MR. ZIEGLER:

Christian Ziegler, Sharon Rufo.

# 6 MS. MOLINARO:

Yvette Molinaro, plaintiff Fredric Goldman.

# 7 MR. KELLY:

John Kelly, Estate of Nicole Brown Simpson.

# 8 MR. BLASIER:

Robert Blasier for Mr. Simpson.

# 9 MR. LEONARD:

Daniel Leonard for Mr. Simpson.

# 10 MR. BAKER:

Bob Baker for OJ. Simpson.

# 11 MR.GROMAN:

Arthur Groman, Mr. Goldman.

ORENTHAL JAMES SIMPSON,

# 12

having been previously duly sworn, was examined and testified further as follows:

# 13

EXAMINATION (Resumed)

# 14

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 15 Q:

Good morning, Mr. Simpson. You understand you are still under oath?

# 16 A:

Yes, sir.

# 17 Q:

Other than talking to your lawyers, did you do anything to prepare for today's session of the deposition?

# 18 A:

No.

# 19 Q:

Did you review any materials?

# 20 A:

No. You mean from yesterday till today?

# 21 Q:

Yes.

# 22 A:

No.

# 23 Q:

Let me clarify a couple things we discussed yesterday. When Phil Vannatter received your black bag, where did he get it from you?

# 24 MR. BAKER:

Are you talking about the 13th of June?

# 25 MR. PETROCELLI:

Yes, Mr. Baker.

# 26 O.J. SIMPSON:

They had me handcuffed, and the bag kept falling off my shoulder, so I guess that's where he got it.

# 27

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 28 Q:

We are now talking about June 13. Correct?

# 29 A:

Yes.

# 30 Q:

Did you drive down to the police station?

# 31 A:

Yes.

# 32 Q:

With whom?

# 33 A:

Phillip Vannatter.

# 34 Q:

You were handcuffed at your house?

# 35 A:

Yes.

# 36 Q:

And when you went into his car, I take it, or some LAPD vehicle, you took your bag with you?

# 37 A:

Yes.

# 38 Q:

And the bag was in the back seat with you?

# 39 A:

I believe it was in the trunk.

# 40 Q:

Trunk?

# 41 A:

Yes.

# 42 Q:

When you arrived at the police station, did you take the bag out and take it up with you?

# 43 A:

No.

# 44 Q:

And later on that evening when you got back to Rockingham, Mr. Vannatter delivered the bag back to you?

# 45 A:

Correct.

# 46 Q:

And so you didn't have the bag in your possession for several hours?

# 47 A:

Correct.

# 48 Q:

Okay. Why did you take the bag with you down to the police station?

# 49 A:

Well, I didn't want to leave it in my driveway.

# 50 Q:

You could have left it in your house.

# 51 A:

They wouldn't let me in my house.

# 52 Q:

Okay. That's the only reason?

# 53 A:

Yes.

# 54 Q:

When you went to Mr. Kardashian's house I guess it was on the 14th of June to stay there for a while, who drove you there?

# 55 A:

Mr. Kardashian.

# 56 Q:

In whose car did you go?

# 57 A:

His.

# 58 Q:

Did Mr. Cowlings spend the evenings over at the Kardashian house?

# 59 A:

I don't believe so.

# 60 Q:

Did anybody else spend the evenings, other than yourself--

# 61 MR. BAKER:

I'm sorry. Do you mean by "spend the evenings," did they sleep at the house?

# 62 MR. PETROCELLI:

Yes.

# 63 O.J. SIMPSON:

Which night?

# 64

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 65 Q:

The night of the 14th, the first night. Other than yourself and Mr. Kardashian.

# 66 A:

The night--

# 67 Q:

Of the 14th.

# 68 A:

The night--

# 69 Q:

Tuesday.

# 70 A:

--of the 14th, my kids.

# 71 Q:

Your kids. Anyone else?

# 72 A:

I don't--not that I know of.

# 73 Q:

And the night of the 15th?

# 74 A:

Other than people live there, you mean?

# 75 Q:

Who lived there?

# 76 A:

I guess Denise Halicki and Bob Kardashian, and they may have had house help that spend the night.

# 77 Q:

Other than those folks, on the 15th did anybody else join you and spend the night there?

# 78 A:

Paula Barbieri.

# 79 Q:

And she slept over there?

# 80 A:

Yes.

# 81 Q:

And on the 16th?

# 82 A:

Paula Barbieri.

# 83 Q:

Now, the clothing that you took with you to Mr. Kardashian's house in Mr. Kardashian's car was contained in the black bag that we discussed yesterday?

# 84 A:

Yeah. And I think I might have taken another change. I'm not sure of that, but I seem to remember that before we went, that I put some clothes in a bag.

# 85 Q:

The same black bag?

# 86 A:

No. No.

# 87 Q:

A different bag?

# 88 A:

Yeah.

# 89 Q:

So you remember now taking two bags--

# 90 A:

I don't remember. It seems to me I don't know if they brought it the next day. It just seems to me I brought something to put on the next day.

# 91 MR. BAKER:

Just wait a second.

And I object to the preamble of the question, "you remember now," because that's exactly what he testified to yesterday.

BY MR. PETROCELLI: Q: How many bags did you take with you to Mr. Kardashian's car en route to his house?

# 92 A:

My black bag.

# 93 Q:

And do you remember any other luggage that you took with you?

# 94 A:

No, but I--I just seem to have a memory that I did bring some clothes with me, and I just don't recall if I carried a bag. I don't think I carried a bag. I think I just had my black bag, but it just seems to me that I carried a change of clothes.

# 95 Q:

Were all the clothes that you carried with you to Mr. Kardashian's house put in this black bag?

# 96 A:

I don't recall.

# 97 Q:

You think you might have just set them in the car, you mean?

# 98 A:

Yeah, maybe I had a suit bag or something. I just don't recall.

# 99 Q:

And do you recall specifically-- Withdrawn. You said yesterday you think some other clothes may have been delivered to you while you were there.

# 100 A:

I know they were.

# 101 Q:

And were they delivered in a suitcase?

# 102 A:

I don't know.

# 103 Q:

Okay. When you went into the Bronco on the 17th, Mr. Cowlings' Bronco, you testified yesterday that you took the black bag with you.

# 104 A:

Yes.

# 105 Q:

Correct?

# 106 A:

Yes.

# 107 Q:

And do you remember if it had any clothes in it?

# 108 A:

If it did, whatever was in there from when I got there Monday: Socks, maybe underwear, something.

# 109 Q:

And you were taking out some of those socks and underwear during the course of the week. Right?

# 110 A:

No, I don't recall that. I think they brought me clothes. I think from my house they brought me a lot of stuff.

# 111 Q:

so whatever socks and underwear were in the black bag when you arrived at Kardashian's remained in the bag and were in the bag when you took it into the Bronco. Is that right?

# 112 A:

Correct.

# 113 Q:

Did you take any other clothes with you, other than what might have been in the black bag, when you went into Mr. Cowlings' Bronco?

# 114 A:

No.

# 115 Q:

Did you have him do so?

# 116 A:

No.

# 117 Q:

Were there any other clothes in the Bronco?

# 118 A:

I didn't look around really to see. They weren't mine if they were.

# 119 Q:

When we were off the record, we distributed copies of exhibits 4A,-B, -C and -D and 1201 Exhibit 5 that we referred to yesterday on the record.

I now would like to show you a photograph -three photographs, which we will mark as the next exhibit in order, which will be 7, and we will mark it 7-A, -B and -C, and I will show you the original photographs that we have, and I will distribute Xerox copies of these to counsel.

# 120 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit 7 (A C) was marked for identification by the reporter and is attached hereto.)

# 121

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 122 Q:

Mr. Simpson, looking at the photos which we've marked as Exhibit 7 collectively, do you recognize what is depicted in the photos?

# 123 A:

Yes.

# 124 Q:

What is it?

# 125 A:

A type of cell phone.

# 126 Q:

Was this the cell phone that you owned and used in June of 1994?

# 127 A:

It could be.

# 128 Q:

Do you recognize the telephone number 613-3232?

# 129 A:

I believe that was my number.

# 130 Q:

And yesterday you--Withdrawn

Is this the cell phone that was in the black bag that you took with you to Chicago?

# 131 A:

If this is mine, yes.

# 132 Q:

Do you have any reason to believe it's not yours?

# 133 A:

Well, I know that--No, I don't.

# 134 Q:

Does it look like yours?

# 135 A:

The type that I use, yes.

# 136 Q:

And does this cell phone appear to be the one that you would have mounted in the Bronco or mounted in the Bentley when you drove in the car?

# 137 A:

Yeah, it was this type of form, yes.

# 138 Q:

And you were able to use it outside of the automobiles as well. Right?

# 139 A:

Yes.

# 140 Q:

And you said it had a battery pack that was attached to it when you used it outside of the car. Is that correct?

# 141 A:

And inside of the car.

# 142 Q:

And inside of the car. Do you see the battery pack there, by the way?

# 143 A:

No.

# 144 Q:

Is it clear to you then that neither of the two battery packs that you mentioned yesterday appears in these photographs?

# 145 A:

True.

# 146 Q:

Do you know where those battery packs are?

# 147 A:

I would imagine in A.C.'s Bronco.

# 148 Q:

Did you remove the battery pack from the cell phone at anytime while you were driving in Mr. Cowlings' Bronco?

# 149 A:

I removed numerous battery packs from mine, I guess A.C.'s. I think the police officers gave us a few of them, yes.

# 150 Q:

And you were using additional battery packs on your cell phone?

# 151 A:

They kept giving them because the phone kept going dead, and I think the police officers were giving us battery packs, too, to get the phone alive again.

# 152 Q:

Okay. In June of 1994, how many telephones did you have in Rockingham?

# 153 A:

I don't know.

# 154 Q:

How many telephone lines did you have?

# 155 A:

One, two. I know I had a rotary phone.

# 156 Q:

You had phones in various rooms throughout the house?

# 157 A:

Yes.

# 158 Q:

Were they all operable?

# 159 A:

I would imagine so.

# 160 Q:

How did the police, by the way, provide you with battery packs while you were in the Bronco?

# 161 A:

Through A.C. I'm sure it's all in-police have that all. I guess A.C. was going back and forth, and I was in my driveway and--

# 162 Q:

While you were at Rockingham?

# 163 A:

Yes.

# 164 Q:

Do you have a recollection that you were out in that Bronco about eight hours on the 17th of June?

# 165 A:

No.

# 166 Q:

Can you estimate how long you were out in the Bronco?

# 167 A:

No.

# 168 Q:

You don't have a clear recollection of those events?

# 169 A:

No. Not time-wise, no.

# 170 Q:

Did you take any Xanax?

# 171 A:

No.

# 172 Q:

Have you ever taken Xanax?

# 173 A:

No.

# 174 MR. BAKER:

You don't have to answer that. You answered that yesterday.

# 175

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 176 Q:

Are you under any medication today?

# 177 A:

Yes.

# 178 Q:

Which medication?

# 179 A:

Sulfasalazine and Motrin.

# 180 Q:

Your blood was taken on June 13. Correct?

# 181 A:

Correct.

# 182 Q:

From the police?

# 183 A:

Yes.

# 184 Q:

Have you ever seen a report from the LAPD that showed traces of marijuana in your blood?

# 185 A:

No.

# 186 Q:

Are you aware that there is such a report?

# 187 A:

No.

# 188 MR. BAKER:

Don't answer that.

# 189 O.J. SIMPSON:

No.

# 190

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 191 Q:

Did you smoke any marijuana on the 12th of June?

# 192 A:

No.

# 193 Q:

Did you smoke any marijuana on the 11th of June?

# 194 A:

No.

# 195 Q:

Did you smoke any marijuana one week before June 12th, 1994?

# 196 A:

No.

# 197 Q:

Did you take any drugs during that week?

# 198 A:

No. Other than Sulfa-well, other than Motrin.

# 199 Q:

What medications did you take on June 10, 11 or 12?

# 200 A:

Motrin.

# 201 Q:

You have a clear memory of that?

# 202 A:

I always take Motrin.

# 203 Q:

Every day?

# 204 A:

Yes.

# 205 Q:

How often?

# 206 A:

In the morning. Sometimes late in the day if I'm in pain.

# 207 Q:

And you were taking Motrin on a regular basis in June of 1994?

# 208 A:

Correct.

# 209 Q:

Did you take any other kind of drugs or medication on June 12?

# 210 A:

No.

# 211 Q:

Cocaine?

# 212 A:

No.

# 213 Q:

Methamphetamine?

# 214 A:

No.

# 215 Q:

Were you a cocaine user in June of 1994?

# 216 A:

No.

# 217 MR. BAKER:

Don't answer that. You --

# 218 O.J. SIMPSON:

No.

BY MR. PETROCELLI: Q: The answer is you were not?

# 219 A:

No.

# 220 Q:

In May of 1994?

# 221 A:

No.

# 222 MR. BAKER:

That's enough. Don't answer any more questions about that.

# 223

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 224 Q:

Did you take cocaine at any time in the period January 1994 through June 12, 1994?

# 225 A:

No.

# 226 MR. BAKER:

I am instructing you not to--

BY MR. PETROCELLI: Q: Did you take--

# 227 MR. BAKER:

Am I a potted plant?

KEY QUOTE

# 228

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 229 Q:

Did you take any kind of amphetamines during that period of time?

# 230 A:

No.

# 231 Q:

Did you take any kind of illegal narcotics at anytime in June--in the period January to June of 1994?

# 232 A:

No.

# 233 Q:

Did you take any--did you use cocaine in the year 1993?

# 234 MR. BAKER:

Don't answer that. THE WITNESS: No. I'm sorry.

# 235

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 236 Q:

Did you use any kind of illegal narcotics in the year 1993?

# 237 MR. BAKER:

Don't answer that.

BY MR. PETROCELLI: Q: You refuse to answer?

# 238 MR. BAKER:

Yes, he refuses to answer.

BY MR. PETROCELLI: Q: You said yesterday that you were concerned about possible drug and/or alcohol abuse by Nicole Simpson. Do you recall that?

# 239 A:

Yes.

# 240 Q:

Did you and she participate in using narcotics in 1994?

# 241 A:

No.

# 242 Q:

Did you see her do so?

# 243 A:

No.

# 244 Q:

At any time did you see her do so?

# 245 MR. BAKER:

Don't answer that, OJ.

# 246 MR. PETROCELLI:

I think the answer was no.

# 247 Q:

Do you have any information whatsoever that in 1994 Nicole Simpson Brown abused or took illegal narcotics?

# 248 A:

Yes.

# 249 Q:

What is that information?

# 250 A:

She told me on one occasion, and people that I talked to that was in the intervention mentioned that it came up in the intervention.

# 251 Q:

What intervention?

# 252 A:

Intervention for Faye Resnick.

# 253 Q:

When did you first talk to anyone about that intervention?

# 254 A:

After--maybe when I was in jail, but I think more when I got out, but possibly when I was in jail.

# 255 Q:

Prior to the time you went to jail, you had not spoken to anyone about that intervention. Correct?

# 256 A:

Wrong.

# 257 Q:

Who did you speak to about it?

# 258 A:

I was told about it by Ron Fishman. And I talked to Christian Reichardt about it.

# 259 Q:

When did the intervention occur?

# 260 A:

I gather during the week of May 6--I mean June 6.

# 261 Q:

And was Nicole a part of the intervention?

# 262 A:

I believe she called it or she caused it to be caused--called.

Q What was the purpose of the intervention?

# 263 A:

I gather Faye Resnick was a little out of control, and Nicole was concerned.

# 264 Q:

Nicole told you that she did this. Correct?

# 265 A:

No.

# 266 Q:

She didn't tell you that she had called the intervention?

# 267 A:

No.

# 268 Q:

Did she tell you that she participated in it?

# 269 A:

No.

# 270 Q:

Did she ever discuss with you the intervention?

# 271 A:

No.

# 272 Q:

And how did you find out what you just said a moment ago?

# 273 A:

Originally, Ron Fishman told me. Then Christian Reichardt told me.

# 274 Q:

The conversations with Fishman and Reichardt occurred before Nicole's murder?

# 275 A:

Yes.

# 276 Q:

And when you heard about the intervention from Ron Fishman and Christian Reichardt, did you speak to Nicole about that?

# 277 A:

No.

# 278 Q:

Did you speak to anyone about that?

# 279 A:

Other than the two of them.

# 280 Q:

Yes.

# 281 A:

No.

# 282 Q:

You said that Nicole told you that she had used some drugs, illegal drugs. When was that?

# 283 A:

In January.

# 284 Q:

Of what year?

# 285 A:

'94.

# 286 Q:

Was that the first time that she told you that?

# 287 A:

That she was using it, well, yeah. I mean, would be concerned in '94. In '93 she told me, too, but we weren't together in '93. But in '94, she--something happened in '94, and she called me in New York and told me about it.

# 288 Q:

Let's just focus for now on 1994. When is the first time in 1994 that she told you that she was using drugs?

# 289 A:

Somewhere near the middle to end, I believe, of January. Could have been the beginning of February, but I think it was the middle or the end of January.

# 290 Q:

What did she say to you?

# 291 A:

She called me. She was crying.

# 292 Q:

What did she say?

# 293 A:

She was in trouble.

# 294 Q:

What else did she say?

# 295 A:

She was in trouble. She did something she wasn't--she thought she was going to get in some trouble. She needed my help.

KEY QUOTE

# 296 Q:

What did she say that she had done?

# 297 MR. KELLY:

I am going to object at this time.

# 298 O.J. SIMPSON:

Thank you.

# 299 MR. KELLY:

I am going to ask to see you. I want to speak to you for a minute, Mr. Petrocelli.

# 300 O.J. SIMPSON:

Thank you.

# 301 MR. PETROCELLI:

Excuse me.

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are going off the record now, and the time is approximately 9:48.

# 302 (Recess.)

# 303 A:

Correct.

# 304 Q:

Tell me what Fishman told you about the intervention.

# 305 A:

Told me that there was an intervention; did I hear, and I said no. And he described to me that they had evidently called an intervention, and there was a lot of people angry with one another. Faye was put into a center, rehab center and there was a lot of anger among the various people involved.

# 306 Q:

Did Fishman tell you this?

# 307 A:

Yes.

# 308 Q:

And did he attend it?

# 309 A:

No.

# 310 Q:

And how did he find this out?

# 311 A:

You would have to ask him.

# 312 Q:

Did he tell you how he knew?

# 313 A:

No.

# 314 Q:

Did you do anything about that information once you heard it?

# 315 A:

I--immediately, no.

# 316 Q:

At any time?

# 317 A:

Other than talk to Christian to see how he was faring about it, other than that, no.

# 318 Q:

Who is Christian Reichardt?

# 319 A:

He was--had some relationship with Faye Resnick.

# 320 Q:

And you spoke--you called him up?

# 321 A:

Yes.

# 322 Q:

And after hearing from Fishman about the intervention?

# 323 A:

Yes.

# 324 Q:

And tell me what you and he discussed; that is, you and Reichardt.

# 325 A:

I asked how he was doing, and he told me he was hanging in there, and he sort of described what happened.

# 326 Q:

Was the subject of the intervention essentially Faye's problems?

# 327 A:

I'm sure the intervention was, yes.

# 328 Q:

Did you do anything after talking to Reichardt?

# 329 A:

What do you mean, did I do anything?

# 330 MR. BAKER:

Relative to the intervention?

# 331

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 332 Q:

About the intervention.

# 333 A:

No.

# 334 Q:

Was that the last time you discussed that before the time you were incarcerated, with anyone?

# 335 A:

I--as best I can recall, yes.

# 336 Q:

And you never discussed it with Nicole. Correct?

# 337 A:

No.

# 338 Q:

Now, did you--in your conversation with Fishman, was there any discussion about Nicole?

# 339 A:

Yes.

# 340 Q:

Relate that discussion.

# 341 A:

That Christian and Nicole had an argument because of how, I guess, the intervention came across--came about.

# 342 Q:

You mean the way it was being handled?

# 343 A:

I guess so, yes.

# 344 Q:

And that was reported to you by Fishman. Right?

# 345 A:

Yes.

# 346 Q:

And was there anything else said about Nicole in your conversation with Fishman?

# 347 A:

Not that I recall.

Q Okay. And in your conversation with Reichardt, was there any discussion of Nicole?

# 348 A:

Yes.

# 349 Q:

And what was that discussion?

# 350 A:

In part he was upset with her for not letting him know what had been going on.

# 351 Q:

With Faye?

# 352 A:

With Faye. And in part that she didn't call him, and the fact that they were letting it go, and I guess it was he who really forced the intervention at that point.

# 353 Q:

Christian?

# 354 A:

Yes.

# 355 Q:

What did Christian tell you that was going on with Faye Resnick that he was upset with Nicole for not responding to sooner?

# 356 A:

That she was heavily involved in cocaine and was doing it in Nicole's presence regularly and that Nicole never alerted him to it.

# 357 Q:

Now, this is something that was told to you by Christian Reichardt?

# 358 A:

Correct.

# 359 Q:

You didn't witness this yourself. Right?

# 360 A:

No.

Q You've never witnessed Faye Resnick taking cocaine. Correct?

# 361 A:

Cocaine, no.

# 362 Q:

In 1994 did you ever see Faye Resnick take any sort of illegal narcotic?

# 363 A:

Illegal?

# 364 Q:

Yeah.

# 365 A:

I would say I wouldn't know, so I don't know what's illegal or not.

# 366 Q:

Did you ever see her abuse drugs, witness her abusing drugs in the year 1994?

# 367 A:

I felt I did, yes.

# 368 Q:

You personally witnessed it?

# 369 A:

I felt I did, yes.

# 370 Q:

When was that?

# 371 A:

In March.

# 372 Q:

Where was that?

# 373 A:

At a restaurant called Toscana.

# 374 Q:

Who?--

# 375 MR. KELLY:

I'm sorry I can't hear.

# 376 O.J. SIMPSON:

A restaurant called Toscana.

# 377 Q:

And who was present there?

# 378 A:

Nicole, Christian Reichardt and Faye.

# 379 Q:

And did you say anything to Faye about this?

# 380 A:

Yes.

# 381 Q:

: What did you say?

# 382 A:

Told her she was out of line doing what she was doing and-

# 383 Q:

Referring to what?

# 384 A:

Taking all the pills she was taking and drinking.

# 385 Q:

And what did she say?

# 386 A:

She argued a little bit, but the other two people sided with me, and, you know, they took the pills from her.

# 387 Q:

Other than that incident, did you ever witness her in 1994 abusing drugs in your presence?

# 388 A:

Not with my eyes, no.

O Okay. Other than that incident and what Mr. Reichardt told you, did you ever obtain any other information in 1994 before Nicole's murder that Faye was abusing drugs?

# 389 A:

Other than comments Nicole made.

O: Nicole would make comments to you from time to time about that?

# 390 A:

Yes.

# 391 Q:

To what effect?

# 392 A:

That she had drug problems and that she was a--

# 393 Q:

"She" being whom?

# 394 A:

Faye Resnick.

# 395 Q:

And what was your reaction to that?

# 396 A:

It had nothing to do with me, and I really didn't spend that much time with Faye, so it wasn't a part of my life. It was her--you know, their problems, not mine.

# 397 Q:

I see. Do you know what the intervention consisted of, by the way?

# 398 A:

# 399 Q:

Do you know the details of it?

# 400 A:

Other than what was told to me by Christian. no.

# 401 Q:

Do you know where it took place?

# 402 A:

No.

# 403 Q:

Do you know what happened after the intervention--

# 404 A:

When I got--

# 405 Q:

--with Faye?

# 406 A:

From what I gather, Christian took her to some place.

# 407 Q:

Do you know where?

# 408 A:

No.

# 409 Q:

And did you ever see Faye there?

# 410 A:

No.

# 411 Q:

Or call her there?

# 412 A:

No.

# 413 Q:

Do you know what date Faye went there?

# 414 A:

I believe it was in the middle of the week of the week of the 6th.

# 415 Q:

June 6?

# 416 A:

Yeah, the middle of that week, sometime during that week. A few days before Nicole's death.

# 417 Q:

You did not speak to Faye Resnick at any time from the moment she went into the treatment center?

# 418 A:

No.

# 419 Q:

When was the last time that you spoke to her?

# 420 A:

Either Sunday or Monday of that week. That would have been whatever those dates were, Sunday and Monday preceding the 12th.

# 421 MR. BLAZER:

Spoke to Faye, you mean?

# 422 MR. PETROCELLI:

Yes.

# 423 Q:

Let me show you as the next exhibit in order a calendar marked as Exhibit--

# 424 MR. BAKER:

# 425 MR. PETROCELLI:

--8.

# 426 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit 8 was marked for identification by the reporter and is attached hereto.)

# 427 MR. BAKER:

And what do you want him to look at particularly here?

# 428 MR. PETROCELLI:

June. First of all, I want him to identify it.

# 429 MR. BAKER:

Well, I will stipulate it's a 1994 Month At-A Glance.

# 430 MR. PETROCELLI:

I want to go over the calendar.

# 431 MR. BAKER:

I'm sorry. Go ahead.

# 432 MR. KELLY:

Do you have copies for everybody?

# 433 MR. PETROCELLI:

Yes.

# 434 MR. KELLY:

I'm sorry.

# 435 MR. BREWER:

What exactly is Exhibit 8? Has it been identified?

BY MR. PETROCELLI: Q: I have before you--I'm getting copies circulated. I have before you what we have marked as Exhibit 8. Do you recognize this document?

# 436 A:

It depicts a calendar.

# 437 Q:

Excuse me?

# 438 A:

It depicts portions of a calendar, I believe.

# 439 Q:

Now, is this your calendar?

# 440 A:

I think it does--I think it is a cop-I believe so. yes. It's not my calendar, but it's somehow, I guess, if I put it together, it would be--

# 441 Q:

Right. You have to put the two pages together where the spirals are. That's how it was Xeroxed. Do you see that?

# 442 A:

Yeah. Yeah, I think it is mine.

# 443 Q:

Now, this is a calendar that you maintained yourself?

# 444 A:

I never really had a calendar, no. Cathy would fax me a page or, you know, whatever was coming up, she 'd send me a page with what's on it, and that was it. So I never had a calendar.

# 445 Q:

You didn't carry a calendar like sort of like this one, Month At-A Glance--

# 446 A:

No.

a --in your bag with you, right--

# 447 A:

No.

# 448 Q:

--or on your person?

# 449 A:

No.

# 450 Q:

And Cathy Randa would maintain your calendar?

# 451 A:

Yeah.

# 452 Q:

Is any of the handwriting on here your handwriting? If you take a look at the page for June, for example.

# 453 A:

I don't believe so.

# 454 Q:

And do you know whose handwriting is on there?

# 455 A:

I believe it's Cathy's.

# 456 Q:

There seems to be different handwriting on these pages.

# 457 MR. BAKER:

I am not sure it's different handwriting. It's different pens.

# 458

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 459 Q:

Do you recognize all of the handwriting on June of 1994 as that of Cathy Randa?

# 460 MR. BAKER:

This is the page he s looking at--

# 461 O.J. SIMPSON:

That's part of June That's part of June.

# 462 MR. BAKER:

Oh, sure it is. I'm sorry.

# 463 O.J. SIMPSON:

I don't even recognize it as Cathy's. I'm just assuming, it's Cathy's. I wouldn't recognize Cathy's handwriting if you wrote it down and showed it to me.

BY MR. PETROCELLI: Q: You wouldn't recognize her handwriting?

# 464 A:

No. I never paid attention to her handwriting.

# 465 Q:

But none of this is your handwriting. Is that right?

# 466 A:

I don't believe so, no.

Q Did you maintain any other kind of appointment book or calendar yourself, like one of those computerized or any kind, for that matter?

# 467 A:

No.

# 468 Q:

Nothing?

# 469 A:

No.

# 470 Q:

So any time you needed to know what your appointments were, Cathy would send you something. Is that right?

# 471 A:

Well, normally. She always in my travel folder or whatever would have whatever I got to do that week or whatever my month looked like, yeah.

# 472 Q:

Did you maintain a calendar at home?

# 473 A:

No.

# 474 Q:

In your office or anywhere?

# 475 A:

No.

# 476 Q:

Okay. Now going back to the calendar for June, okay, and looking at it, can you tell me what's the last day that you spoke to Faye Resnick?

# 477 A:

It was either Monday or--Sunday or Monday, the 5th or the 6th. One of those days. I'm not sure.

# 478 Q:

Of June. Correct?

# 479 A:

Yes.

# 480 Q:

And do you recall what the purpose of that call was?

# 481 A:

It wasn't a call.

# 482 Q:

You met with her?

# 483 A:

No. She was at Nicole's house.

# 484 Q:

And that's before the intervention, to the best of your knowledge. Right?

# 485 A:

Yes. Yeah, it was definitely before the intervention.

# 486 Q:

So you were at Nicole's house what day, now?

# 487 A:

Either Sunday or Monday.

# 488 Q:

Now we are talking June 5 or June 6. Correct?

# 489 A:

Yeah.

# 490 Q:

In Nicole's house, you mean 875 Bundy. Right?

# 491 A:

Yes.

# 492 Q:

Who else was there?

# 493 A:

I don't--Justin may have been with me, and I didn't go in the house, so--well, no, I didn't go in the house that day, so I don't know who was in the house.

# 494 Q:

So you stayed outside?

# 495 A:

Yes.

# 496 Q:

Where?

# 497 A:

In the front.

# 498 Q:

Front of the house?

# 499 A:

Yes.

# 500 Q:

By the way, is there a buzzer at the front that you could ring the doorbell?

# 501 A:

Yes.

# 502 Q:

And was that operable?

# 503 A:

As far as I knew, yes.

# 504 Q:

And was there one in the back?

# 505 A:

No.

# 506 Q:

There was no buzzer in the back?

# 507 A:

No.

# 508 Q:

Could you enter the back?

# 509 A:

If they opened the garage, you could.

# 510 Q:

And was there a back--another back entrance besides the garage?

# 511 A:

Not that I know of.

# 512 Q:

Was there a back gate, for example?

# 513 A:

What do you mean? To the property?

# 514 Q:

Yes.

# 515 A:

Yes.

# 516 Q:

Did that have a buzzer?

# 517 A:

No.

# 518 Q:

How would you get in through the back gate if you wanted to?

# 519 A:

Somebody would have to open it.

# 520 Q:

Was it locked?

# 521 A:

I would think so, yes.

# 522 Q:

So if you came in through the back gate, you couldn't get in unless you had a key?

# 523 A:

Yes.

# 524 Q:

And on the front gate, you would have to buzz somebody. Right?

# 525 A:

Yes.

# 526 Q:

And then--

# 527 A:

Or have a key.

# 528 Q:

Or have a key.

# 529 A:

Yeah.

# 530 Q:

And then there was the garage in the back. Right?

# 531 A:

Yes.

# 532 Q:

And on this occasion did you buzz to gain entry to the property?

# 533 A:

Yes.

# 534 Q:

And did you come alone?

# 535 A:

I may have been with Justin.

# 536 Q:

What was your purpose in going there?

# 537 A:

Get the dogs.

# 538 Q:

What dogs?

# 539 A:

Actually, get Chachi.

# 540 Q:

That's your dog?

# 541 A:

Yes.

# 542 Q:

And then take the dog back in the car and leave. Right?

# 543 A:

Yes.

# 544 Q:

When you buzzed the buzzer in the front there, is there like a voice box where you can talk and be heard?

# 545 A:

Yes.

# 546 Q:

And you identified yourself?

# 547 A:

No.

# 548 Q:

They just buzzed, and you opened the door and went through?

# 549 A:

No.

# 550 Q:

Tell me what happened.

# 551 A:

I buzzed and Faye came out.

# 552 Q:

She came all the way out to the front gate?

# 553 A:

Yes.

# 554 Q:

Opened it up?

# 555 A:

Yes.

# 556 Q:

And then you and Justin went in?

# 557 A:

No.

# 558 Q:

Justin stayed in the car?

# 559 A:

No.

# 560 Q:

Tell me what happened.

# 561 A:

The dog ran out.

# 562 Q:

Out of the gate?

# 563 A:

Yes.

# 564 Q:

And ran where?

# 565 A:

Off.

# 566 Q:

What did you do?

# 567 A:

I went one way and Faye went up Bundy, and I went one way, and then I drove back--I mean I walked back. got in my car and started driving and caught the dog in the alley across on the other side of Bundy in an alley and then brought the dog back to the front of the house.

# 568 Q:

What did you do then?

# 569 A:

I got the dog back on her property.

# 570 Q:

How did you do that?

# 571 A:

Grabbed it and brought it, you know, back on the property.

# 572 Q:

And where did you bring the dog?

# 573 A:

To the--inside the front gate.

# 574 Q:

Who did you give the dog to?

# 575 A:

Nobody.

# 576 Q:

When you went inside the front gate, was it open?

# 577 A:

Yes. It wasn't closed, yes.

# 578 Q:

So you could push it open without a key?

# 579 A:

Yes.

# 580 Q:

And you entered the property?

# 581 A:

Yes.

Q And with the dog?

# 582 A:

Yes.

# 583 Q:

What did you do when you entered the property?

# 584 A:

The dog ran, and I went looking for the other dog.

# 585 Q:

Did you find the dog?

# 586 A:

Yes.

# 587 Q:

Where?

# 588 A:

Down below the side of her house.

# 589 Q:

You mean the side of the alleyway?

# 590 A:

Yes.

# 591 Q:

And you walked down that alleyway, and did you go down the stairs?

# 592 A:

I believe so. I'm not sure.

# 593 Q:

Saw the dog--How far did you go down the alley?

# 594 A:

I don't--I'm not sure.

# 595 Q:

What did you do then?

# 596 A:

I got the dog and kinda shooed it to come with me.

# 597 Q:

And then what did you do?

# 598 A:

Walked the dog back to the front gate.

# 599 Q:

And then what?

# 600 A:

Faye was at the front gate at that point in time, and I got the dog to the truck and put him in and left.

# 601 Q:

Did you spend time talking to Faye at the front gate?

# 602 A:

Faye was talked--babbling. Faye was, in my judgment, totally plastered. So she was babbling, yes.

KEY QUOTE

# 603 Q:

What was she saying?

# 604 A:

I couldn't even tell you. Didn't make any sense to me.

# 605 Q:

She wasn't coherent to you. Is that what you're saying.7

# 606 A:

In my opinion, no.

# 607 Q:

Did you spend time trying to talk to her?

# 608 A:

No.

# 609 Q:

Did you do anything to--Were you concerned at all for her safety?

# 610 A:

No.

# 611 Q:

You got the dog and then went back in the car?

# 612 A:

Yes.

# 613 Q:

Did you talk to anyone else on that occasion?

# 614 A:

No.

# 615 Q:

For example, did you talk to Nicole?

# 616 A:

No.

# 617 Q:

Do you know if she was home?

# 618 A:

I thought I saw her at the door when I came back with the dog. I think she was standing in the doorway.

# 619 Q:

Front doorway?

# 620 A:

I believe so. I'm not sure. She could have been up on the balcony looking down.

# 621 Q:

And you said nothing to her?

# 622 A:

No, because I just saw her as I was coming, you know, driving up, and then she wasn't there. I believe. Other than, "Hey, the dog got out," or something maybe, but nothing relevant to anything.

# 623 Q:

Did you gesture or wave to her?

# 624 A:

Possible. I don't know. I mean, we acknowledged each other, but, you know...

# 625 Q:

You can't recall any conversation of substance--

# 626 A:

No.

# 627 Q:

--of any kind with Faye Resnick. Is that right?

# 628 A:

No.

# 629 Q:

Was that the last time you were at the Bundy property before Nicole's death?

# 630 A:

I believe so, yes.

# 631 Q:

Were you bleeding on that occasion?

# 632 A:

Not that I know of.

# 633 Q:

Did you have any cuts that you knew of?

# 634 A:

Not that I was aware of.

# 635 Q:

Were you wearing any Band-Aids?

# 636 A:

Not that I was aware of.

# 637 Q:

When you were looking for the dog, what is the other dog you were looking for?

# 638 A:

I was going to get Chachi and Kato, a dog called Kato is the one that got out.

# 639 Q:

The dog that got out onto Bundy

# 640 A:

Kato.

# 641 Q:

--was Kato.

# 642 A:

Yes.

# 643 Q:

And you put that dog in the Bronco. Right?

# 644 A:

No.

# 645 Q:

What car were you driving?

# 646 A:

Bronco.

Q; Bronco. You first got--you retrieved Kato. Is that what you're saying?

# 647 A:

Yes.

# 648 Q:

What did you do with Kato when you retrieved him?

# 649 A:

As I said, I put him back on the property.

# 650 Q:

On the property.

# 651 A:

Yes.

# 652 Q:

And you went and got Chachi. Right?

# 653 A:

Yes.

# 654 Q:

When you went and got Chachi, you said you walked a little bit down the property. Right?

# 655 A:

Yes.

# 656 Q:

Did you go all the way down to the back gate?

# 657 A:

I don't recall.

# 658 Q:

What is your best recollection?

# 659 A:

I don't have a best recollection. It's something I do often.

# 660 Q:

What is that?

# 661 A:

Pick up the dogs. And this one didn't stand out any more than any other time.

# 662 MR. KELLY:

I'm sorry, Mr. Simpson. I can't hear you.

# 663 MR. BAKER:

There was no question, anyway.

# 664 MR. KELLY:

Well, he was talking. I couldn't hear him.

# 665 MR. BAKER:

I understand.

# 666 MR. KELLY:

Okay.

# 667 MR. BAKER:

But, you know, if he wants to give a monologue against his lawyer's advice...

# 668 MR. KELLY:

Well, I especially want to hear things against his lawyer's advice.

KEY QUOTE

# 669

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 670 Q:

We have marked that calendar as Exhibit 8, and while we are on the subject of calendars, I am going to show you another calendar. which we will mark as Exhibit 9.

# 671 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit 9 was marked for identification by the reporter 1 and is attached hereto.)

# 672

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 673 Q:

Take a look at what we have marked as Exhibit 9.

# 674 A:

Uh-huh.

# 675 Q:

Can you tell me if this appears to be a copy of a calendar for you for the year 1994?

# 676 A:

Yes, it appears to be.

# 677 Q:

Is this a calendar that you maintained?

# 678 A:

As I told you before, I didn't maintain any calendar.

# 679 Q:

Do you recognize the handwriting?

# 680 A:

Yeah. Pretty much looks like what is normally on my calendars.

# 681 Q:

To the best of your knowledge, do you think this calendar was one that was maintained by Cathy Randa?

# 682 A:

Possibly.

# 683 Q:

This calendar is different from the Exhibit 8 calendar. There are different entries for the various dates. Do you know why that is?

# 684 A:

I can only surmise.

Q What is your best understanding of that?

# 685 A:

That normally this would be-looks more like what she would have printed to send to me. The other one looked more like something that she would maintain herself. Because I wouldn't want to see all that other stuff that's on the calendar.

# 686 Q:

Exhibit 9 appears to be a copy of the kind of information that she would transmit to you. Correct?

# 687 A:

Yeah. She did this page, and if I was taking some trips this week, she would put this in my travel folder, just copy a page like this and put it in my travel folder.

# 688 Q:

So you would take a copy of the page with the days involved in your travel. Correct?

# 689 A:

Virtually, yes.

Q; Literally a Xerox copy?

# 690 A:

Yes.

# 691 Q:

And you put it in that black bag we discussed yesterday?

# 692 A:

Yes.

# 693 Q:

What do you call that again?

# 694 A:

My grip.

# 695 Q:

Your grip. Okay. Are you aware of any other calendars that were maintained for you other than these two

# 696 A:

No.

# 697 Q:

--for the year 1994?

# 698 A:

No.

# 699 Q:

Are you aware of whether Cathy Randa shredded any documents in 1994?

# 700 A:

No.

# 701 Q:

Do you know if she did?

# 702 A:

l hope so.

# 703 Q:

You told her to?

# 704 A:

No.

# 705 Q:

Why do you say you hope so?

# 706 A:

At one point once the trial began, everybody, all the lawyers, were given shredders, and I believe Marcia Clark also talked in court that they were all shredding everything, and all our lawyers were shredding everything because the media was going through the garbage cans to get story material. So it was discussed in the courtroom at one point.

# 707 Q:

It was discussed in the courtroom that documents should be shredded?

# 708 A:

No. That you should shred all garbage and all stuff once you looked at it or whatever. You shredded it and got rid of it. And I believe the prosecution said they were doing the same thing.

# 709 Q:

You are referring to documents generated in the course of the case, you mean?

# 710 A:

Yes.

# 711 Q:

What about documents at the Brentwood office where Cathy Randa worked?

# 712 A:

What about it?

# 713 Q:

Do you know whether she ever shredded any documents there?

# 714 A:

No.

# 715 Q:

Did you ever tell her to do so?

# 716 A:

No.

# 717 Q:

Has anyone ever told you that she did so?

# 718 A:

No.

# 719 Q:

Have you ever acquired any information that Randa shredded any documents after--

# 720 A:

What do you mean by "documents"?

Garbage?

# 721 Q:

No, not things already thrown away. Things that were in your desks or your drawers or cabinets.

# 722 A:

I think I saw where things were being shredded In our office, yes.

# 723 Q:

How did you see that?

# 724 A:

They were talking about it in court.

# 725 Q:

Who was talking?

# 726 A:

I don't know. lt. was an issue in court one day.

# 727 Q:

Did you discuss that issue with Cathy Randa?

# 728 A:

No.

# 729 Q:

Did you tell your lawyers what to tell Cathy to shred?

# 730 A:

No.

# 731 Q:

Do you know what Cathy shredded?

# 732 A:

No.

# 733 Q:

Do you know whether she shredded any documents relating to Nicole?

# 734 A:

No.

# 735 Q:

You don't know one way or the other?

# 736 A:

No.

# 737 Q:

Do you know whether she shredded any documents relating to the l989 incident involving spousal abuse?

# 738 A:

No.

# 739 Q:

Do you know anything about that one way or the other?

# 740 A:

No.

# 741 Q:

Do you know whether she destroyed any documents?

# 742 A:

No.

# 743 Q:

Do you know whether Cathy Randa shredded any documents that the prosecutors had subpoenaed and requested to be produced in court?

# 744 A:

No.

# 745 Q:

Do you know whether anyone told her to do so?

# 746 A:

No.

# 747 Q:

Before you were incarcerated, did you destroy any documents?

# 748 A:

No.

# 749 Q:

Or ask other people to dispose of, discard or shred any documents?

# 750 A:

No.

# 751 Q:

After you were incarcerated, did you ask anybody to see that certain documents or materials were destroyed, discarded or shredded?

# 752 A:

No.

# 753 Q:

Do you know whether that occurred?

# 754 A:

No.

# 755 Q:

Looking at your calendar again, Exhibit 8, let's say--

# 756 A:

Which one?

# 757 Q:

Take a look at Exhibit 8. It's also-you could look at the trial exhibit number for the criminal case. It was Exhibit 599. Just make sure you have the right one.

# 758 A:

Uh-huh.

# 759 Q:

And look at June again or May. May and June. Can you tell me, prior to--Well, let me back Up.

The occasion that you described where you retrieved the dogs, when did that occur; on June 5 or June 6?

# 760 A:

I'm not sure.

# 761 Q:

What is your best understanding?

# 762 A:

I don't have one.

# 763 Q:

Excuse me?

# 764 A:

I don't have one.

# 765 Q:

It's one of those two days?

# 766 A:

Yes.

# 767 Q:

What time of day?

# 768 A:

Afternoon.

# 769 Q:

And what was the total amount of time that you believe you were on the Bundy property on that occasion?

# 770 A:

I don't know.

# 771 Q:

Less than a minute?

# 772 A:

No.

# 773 Q:

Less than five minutes?

# 774 A:

Yes.

# 775 Q:

And when was the time before that occasion when you were last at the Bundy property?

# 776 A:

In the Bundy--in Bundy?

# 777 Q:

Yes. On the property or in the house.

# 778 A:

June 4th.

# 779 Q:

And prior to June 4th?

# 780 O.J. SIMPSON:

I can't tear this thing?

# 781 MR. BAKER:

Yeah.

# 782 MR. PETROCELLI:

That's the court exhibit. Why don't you--I will try to fix that at a break.

# 783 O.J. SIMPSON:

We're talking on the property?

# 784

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 785 Q:

Yeah, last time before June 4.

# 786 A:

I was definitely there on June 22nd and 23rd--

# 787 MR. BAKER:

May?

# 788 O.J. SIMPSON:

I mean May 22nd and May 23rd, and--

# 789

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 790 Q:

Both days?

# 791 A:

Yeah, pretty sure both days, and possibly... I can't really recall. Possibly another time during the course of that week. Just briefly, yes.

# 792 Q:

What happened on June 4 that caused you to be on the property?

# 793 A:

I had to look at my son's Nintendo setup.

# 794 Q:

That was in the house?

# 795 A:

Yeah. Q: And how did you access the property on that occasion?

# 796 A:

I came. I blew the horn. Justin was with me. I blew the horn, Nicole opened the garage, and we came up through the garage, went to his room looked at his setup and went back down the stairs and went back out the garage and left.

# 797 Q:

You drove up to the back of the property?

# 798 A:

Yeah.

# 799 Q:

Right in front of the garage?

# 800 A:

Yeah.

# 801 Q:

And the garage door is closed?

# 802 A:

Yeah.

# 803 Q:

You blew the horn, and the garage door went up?

# 804 A:

Yeah

# 805 Q:

And then you went in?

# 806 A:

Yeah.

# 807 Q:

And how long were you there?

# 808 A:

Whatever time it took to walk up the stairs, whatever it took, about a minute or two maximum to see the hookup, and then walk back down the stairs. Five minutes or less.

# 809 Q:

Now, the stairs that we're referring to are the stairs that lead from the inside of the garage up into the home. Correct?

# 810 A:

Yes.

# 811 Q:

we are talking about interior stairs. Right?

# 812 A:

Yes.

# 813 Q:

Then when you got into the first level of the home, you then went upstairs using interior stairs to the bedroom--

# 814 A:

Yes.

# 815 Q:

--of your son. correct?

# 816 A:

Yes.

# 817 Q:

And you fixed the Nintendo setup for him--

# 818 A:

I didn't fix it. I needed to see the hookup and how it was arranged and everything.

# 819 Q:

Did you buy him a Nintendo cartridge around that time?

# 820 A:

I bought him one later, and I had already bought him one -whatever the other game is. There's another one like Nintendo.

# 821 Q:

Sega?

# 822 A:

Sega or something, and we were trying to set it up in his room.

# 823 Q:

Do you remember the name of the game you bought him?

# 824 A:

No.

# 825 Q:

And then you came--After you checked out the setup--

# 826 A:

Yeah.

# 827 Q:

--what did you then do?

# 828 A:

Went and got in my car.

# 829 Q:

Came right back down the stairs same way you came up?

# 830 A:

Yeah.

# 831 Q:

Went out the garage and into the car. Is that right?

# 832 A:

Yeah.

# 833 Q:

And drove off.

# 834 A:

Yeah.

# 835 Q:

Did you converse with Nicole that occasion?

# 836 A:

On the 4th, no.

# 837 Q:

Was she there?

# 838 A:

Yeah.

# 839 Q:

Did you see her?

# 840 A:

No.

# 841 Q:

How do you know she was home?

# 842 A:

Jason--Justin ran in her room, and she was in bed and they were talking, and you have to go by the door of her room, and I heard them talking as I went to his room. You have to walk by her room to get to his room.

# 843 Q:

Justin came with you?

# 844 A:

Yes.

# 845 Q:

And then he left with you?

# 846 A:

Yes.

# 847 Q:

Was there anybody else home with Nicole?

# 848 A:

Not that I know of.

# 849 Q:

And you didn't speak to Nicole at all?

# 850 A:

No. Well, somebody may have been home with Nicole, because I saw Faye's car, but I don't know if Faye was there.

# 851 Q:

You recognized her car?

# 852 A:

Yeah.

# 853 Q:

Where was it parked?

# 854 A:

In the back.

# 855 Q:

What kind of car was it?

# 856 A:

I don't know. I don't recall.

# 857 Q:

You don't remember?

# 858 A:

I don't remember, but I know it was her car.

# 859 Q:

Nicole then had two cars. Is that right?

# 860 A:

I believe so, yeah.

# 861 Q:

What were they?

# 862 A:

A Ferrari and a truck.

# 863 Q:

Were they both in the garage?

# 864 A:

I don't recall. I don't think so.

# 865 Q:

Were they parked there on the property?

# 866 A:

I don't think so because I was able to pull right up to the garage, so one of them must not have been there.

# 867 Q:

Is that where one usually -where she usually parked one of them?

# 868 A:

Yes.

# 869 Q:

Where? Outside the garage door?

# 870 A:

Yes.

# 871 Q:

Which one was that?

# 872 A:

The jeep.

# 873 Q:

And the other car, the Ferrari, was always parked in the garage?

# 874 A:

Yes.

# 875 Q:

When you used to arrive, would you literally turn into the driveway or just park parallel to it?

# 876 A:

Turn into it.

# 877 Q:

Turn into it?

# 878 A:

Yeah.

# 879 Q:

So you would park next to the other jeep. Right?

# 880 A:

Yeah. You couldn't park parallel. You'd block the alley.

# 881 Q:

Now, the last time before June 4 you were at the Bundy property you said was definitely when?

# 882 A:

Well, I was definitely there the 22nd and 23rd--

# 883 Q:

22nd and 23rd?

# 884 A:

Of May, yes, and I believe I could have been there one time during that week.

# 885 Q:

What did you do there on the 22nd and 23rd?

# 886 A:

22nd I helped Nicole with something, and we talked, and 23rd I think I had dinner with her.

# 887 Q:

Let's start with the 23rd. Tell me about that occasion.

# 888 A:

Nicole needed -I think she needed some cough syrup, and the kids were with me and she called-I believe she called. She went home. I checked on her, and she needed some cough syrup or something, and I went over and we talked. We talked about a few things.

# 889 Q:

Did you go over there alone?

# 890 A:

Yes.

# 891 Q:

And parked in the same place in the back?

# 892 A:

I don't recall.

# 893 Q:

Which car did you drive?

# 894 A:

I don't recall.

# 895 Q:

And how did you get into the house?

# 896 A:

Either I blew, if I was in the back, and she answered or she buzzed me in the front. I just don't recall.

# 897 Q:

You don't remember which way?

# 898 A:

I don't remember.

# 899 Q:

Was it your practice to drive to the front of the house or the back of the house?

# 900 A:

I did both, depending on--normally depended on where I was coming from. If I was coming from home, normally I went to the back. So, you know. So more than likely it was the back, but I don't recall how I entered the house that time.

# 901 Q:

And if it was the back, that's the way you would go up. Right?

# 902 A:

Yeah.

# 903 Q:

And if it was the front, you would be let in through the front gate, and then you would go right to the front door. Right?

# 904 A:

Yes.

# 905 Q:

Now, that front door is situated on the property prior to those steps going down the alleyway. Right?

# 906 A:

Yes.

# 907 Q:

So in order to go from the gate to the front door, you don't have to walk down the alleyway and go down the steps and go back up again. Correct?

# 908 A:

True.

# 909 Q:

Is there any other entrance to the property besides--to the home besides that garage in the back and the front door that you just described?

# 910 MR. BAKER:

The back gate you were talking about?

# 911 MR. PETROCELLI:

Let me start all over again.

# 912 Q:

Is there any other entrance to the Bundy home of Nicole other than the garage and the front door that you just described?

# 913 MR. BAKER:

You mean actually to get into the--physically inside the house?

# 914 MR. PETROCELLI:

Yes.

# 915 MR. BAKER:

Okay.

# 916 O.J. SIMPSON:

I don't know if you can--there's a room down there. I don't know if you can--I don't know if it needs a key to get into, but there is a room that is down on that walkway, but I'm not sure if there's--if it's-if it can he used as an entrance.

# 917

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 918 Q:

You are now talking about the walkway, meaning that side alley. Right?

# 919 A:

Yes.

# 920 Q:

And you are saying that if you come down that side alley, there is a door?

# 921 A:

There is a room, and I know you come out of that room. I just don't know if it's a room that you can get into if it's locked. I don't know.

# 922 Q:

If you were inside the property, you could come out of that room by going out a door to the side alley?

# 923 A:

Yes.

# 924 Q:

I see. And what is that room.

# 925 A:

I think she used it as a maid's room.

# 926 Q:

Maid's room.

# 927 A:

Yes.

# 928 Q:

And it had a door that opened out into the side alley?

# 929 A:

I believe so, yes.

# 930 Q:

Is that a door that you ever used?

# 931 A:

No.

# 932 Q:

Never went in or out that door?

# 933 A:

Never went in or out of that room.

# 934 Q:

Never was in that room?

# 935 A:

No.

# 936 Q:

How do you know about it?

# 937 A:

I know it's there. You can't come in from the garage without seeing the room there.

# 938 Q:

How do you know that it has a door on the other side that goes w the side alley?

# 939 A:

Because I've been in the alley with the dogs.

# 940 Q:

And you've seen that door?

# 941 A:

Yes.

# 942 Q:

And you can look--Does the door have a window?

# 943 A:

I think it's a glass door. I'm not sure.

# 944 Q:

You can see right into the room.7

# 945 A:

Yes.

# 946 Q:

Are there any other ways of accessing the home?

# 947 A:

I don't know.

# 948 Q:

Is there more than--

# 949 A:

Not that I know of.

# 950 Q:

Is there more than one front door?

# 951 A:

Not that I know of.

# 952 Q:

Did you have any keys m the property?

# 953 A:

Not that I know of.

# 954 Q:

Are you unsure of yourself?

# 955 MR. BREWER:

Well, I am going on object. Vague as to time also.

# 956

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 957 Q:

In May of 1994-- A: I'm sorry. I didn't hear.

# 958 Q:

-did you have any keys to Nicole's property?

# 959 A:

None that I knew were Nicole's keys.

# 960 Q:

In June of 1994 did you have any keys?

# 961 A:

None that I knew of.

# 962 Q:

When you say that you did not have keys of Nicole's that you knew of, do you have a belief that you had some keys that might have been hers but you are not sure?

# 963 A:

No, I don't know if--I have no knowledge of having any keys to Nicole's house.

# 964 Q:

At any time?

# 965 A:

Well, yes, at some time, yes.

# 966 Q:

At any time in 1994 did you have any keys to Nicole's house on Bundy?

# 967 A:

Not that were my keys, no, but I've had in my possession the keys to her house in '94.

# 968 Q:

I see. And when was that?

# 969 A:

Numerous times.

# 970 Q:

Why would you have possession of keys to Nicole's house?

# 971 A:

Because I stayed at her house a lot, and some nights when I would either walk the dog or run to the store to get something, I'd go out the front door, and I'd use the key to get back in the front door.

Q Where would you get that key?

# 972 A:

From her.

# 973 Q:

You would ask her?

# 974 A:

I'd just grab her key.

# 975 Q:

Was there a place where you would find the key?

# 976 A:

I don't recall. Normally she keeps her key on the counter, I believe, the counter in the kitchen.

# 977 Q:

And that key on the counter in the kitchen is the only key that you would have possession of from time to time?

# 978 A:

Yes.

# 979 Q:

Is it a single key?

# 980 A:

No. I think it was always a group of keys.

# 981 Q:

What were they keys to?

# 982 A:

Her car, her house, whatever.

# 983 Q:

Which keys would you use to access what locks on what doors?

# 984 A:

As far as I knew, it was one key that accessed the gate and the front door.

# 985 Q:

Same key?

# 986 A:

As far as I knew, yes.

# 987 Q:

Worked for both the gate and the front door?

# 988 A:

Yes.

# 989 Q:

Which gate are you referring to?

# 990 A:

In the front of the house.

# 991 Q:

And that's a key that you can specifically recall using to enter the front gate and the front door?

# 992 A:

And the exit also, yeah.

# 993 Q:

And the exit?

# 994 A:

And to exit.

# 995 Q:

To lock it behind you?

# 996 A:

Yeah.

# 997 Q:

I see. When was the last time you had that key?

# 998 A:

I don't know if I took it--her keys on the--the week of--the week she had pneumonia, so it would be the week of the 16th I may have, because I left her house to go get her some cough syrup at Westward Ho, and I went out the front door and to lock the front door. I may have then.

# 999 Q:

If you used it on the 16th--

# 1000 A:

No. The week of the 16th, sometime during the week.

O: Did you then return it?

# 1001 A:

Yes.

# 1002 Q:

Did you return it?

# 1003 A:

Yes.

# 1004 Q:

After the time you used the key to go get the cough syrup--

Is that what you said?

# 1005 A:

Yes.

# 1006 Q:

--you never had possession of Nicole's keys?

# 1007 A:

No.

# 1008 Q:

That was the absolute last time?

# 1009 A:

Yes.

# 1010 Q:

Do you remember whether that key had a key ring?

# 1011 A:

No. I think it was a bunch of keys

# 1012 MR. KELLY:

Dan, I am going to ask, can we take a five-minute break?

# 1013 MR. PETROCELLI:

Yes. This is a good time.

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are going off the record now, and the time is approximately 10:38.

# 1014 (Recess.)

# 1015

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1016 Q:

Going back to your prior testimony about visiting Bundy on the 22nd and the 23rd, the day that you went and took care of the Nintendo setup was which day, when you went up through the garage into the house?

# 1017 A:

I believe that was the 4th.

# 1018 Q:

That was the 4th.

# 1019 A:

Yes.

# 1020 Q:

Of June. Correct?

# 1021 A:

Yes, I believe so.

# 1022 Q:

And the 23rd, tell me again what you did then.

# 1023 A:

Nicole and I talked--the 23rd?

# 1024 Q:

Yes, May 23rd.

# 1025 A:

I think I had dinner with them, with Sydney and Justin and her.

# 1026 Q:

Sydney and Justin were at the house?

# 1027 A:

On the 23rd, if that's a Monday, yes.

# 1028 Q:

And you went there and had dinner?

# 1029 A:

Yeah, I believe so.

# 1030 Q:

Which car did you drive over?

# 1031 A:

I don't know.

# 1032 Q:

Where did you park?

# 1033 A:

I don't know.

# 1034 Q:

How did you get into the property?

# 1035 A:

I don't recall.

# 1036 Q:

Did you blow the horn? Did you--

# 1037 A:

I don't know.

# 1038 Q:

Did you buzz?

# 1039 A:

I don't recall.

# 1040 Q:

You have no idea?

# 1041 A:

No.

# 1042 Q:

Do you know whether you went in through the garage or some other way?

# 1043 A:

The only other way would have been the front door, and I don't recall either.

# 1044 Q:

When you went into the house, you had dinner there. Did you spend the night?

# 1045 A:

No.

# 1046 Q:

You came back.

# 1047 A:

Yeah.

# 1048 Q:

Were you bleeding on that occasion?

# 1049 A:

Not that I recall.

# 1050 Q:

And you didn't have any cuts or anything Like that. Right?

# 1051 A:

Not that I recall.

# 1052 Q:

Did you have any Band-Aids or anything like that?

# 1053 A:

Not that I recall.

# 1054 Q:

When you say not that you recall, is there any doubt in your mind?

# 1055 A:

I don'trecall. If you go prior to the 23rd, I can't tell you any time in my life I ever bled, but I know I have.

# 1056 Q:

You can't remember. Is that what you're saying?

# 1057 A:

Yeah. Yes.

# 1058 Q:

Now, on the 22nd, what was that occasion when you visited the condo at Bundy?

# 1059 A:

Nicole had left my house feeling weak, and I had the kids. She told me she wanted to talk to me. So at some time later on that day I--that night we-or that afternoon or whatever, I went to her house. I think I brought her some food, too.

# 1060 Q:

Which car did you drive?

# 1061 A:

I don't recall.

# 1062 Q:

Where did you park?

# 1063 A:

I don't recall.

# 1064 Q:

How did you get into the property?

# 1065 A:

I don't recall.

# 1066 Q:

Would it have been through the front gate or the garage?

# 1067 A:

Yes. Q: And you spent--How long did you spend there with Nicole?

# 1068 A:

We're talking the 2--

# 1069 Q:

--2nd.

# 1070 A:

I would say an hour or two. That's a guess. That's an estimate.

# 1071 Q:

Was anyone else home besides the two of you?

# 1072 A:

I believe the kids.

# 1073 Q:

The same true on the 23rd; just you, Nicole and the kids. Right?

# 1074 A:

Yes.

# 1075 Q:

By the "kids"--

# 1076 A:

I don't know. Housekeeper might have been there that day on the 23rd. I'm not sure.

# 1077 Q:

Her name is?

# 1078 A:

I don't know.

# 1079 Q:

Were you bleeding on the 22nd there?

# 1080 A:

Not that I recall.

# 1081 Q:

Did you have any cuts?

# 1082 A:

Not that I recall.

# 1083 Q:

Now go to--When was the last time before the 22nd you were there? You said the week of the 16th. Right?

# 1084 A:

Yeah.

# 1085 Q:

We are in May, of course.

# 1086 A:

Yeah.

# 1087 Q:

You described an occasion when you went to go get some cough medicine?

# 1088 A:

Yes.

# 1089 Q:

And Nicole was sick?

# 1090 A:

Yes.

# 1091 Q:

She was in bed?

# 1092 A:

Yes.

# 1093 Q:

And when did you first go to her house-What day was that during the week of the 16th of May?

# 1094 A:

I don't know. I was there almost --when I was in town that week, I was there each day.

# 1095 Q:

You went there a number of days?

# 1096 A:

That week, yes.

# 1097 Q:

How did you get there?

# 1098 A:

I'm sure I drove.

# 1099 Q:

Which car?

# 1100 A:

I don't know.

# 1101 Q:

Where did you park?

# 1102 A:

I don't know.

# 1103 Q:

You have no recollection where you parked?

# 1104 A:

No.

Q Was--

# 1105 A:

The front or the back.

# 1106 Q:

Excuse me?

# 1107 A:

Front or the back of the house.

# 1108 Q:

If you were going to be there an extended !181 period of time, would you typically park in the back?

# 1109 A:

No.

# 1110 Q:

And when you--So whenever you entered the house on those various days, you would have entered through the garage or the front gate. Correct?

# 1111 A:

Yes.

# 1112 Q:

When you went through the front gate, you would go directly from the front gate to the front door. Correct?

# 1113 A:

Yes. Unless the dogs were there and I was dicking around with the dogs.

# 1114 Q:

Do you remember doing so?

# 1115 A:

I've done it many times.

# 1116 Q:

Did you do so that week?

# 1117 A:

I'm sure I did.

# 1118 Q:

Were you bleeding at all at the property during the week of May 16th?

# 1119 A:

Not that I recall.

# 1120 Q:

Did you have any cuts?

# 1121 A:

Not that I recall.

# 1122 Q:

When you entered through the front, you would park on Bundy. Is that right?

# 1123 A:

Yes.

# 1124 Q:

Now, during that week did you make various trips and errands for Nicole to get her things?

# 1125 MR. BAKER:

During what week are we talking about?

# 1126 Q:

During the week of May 16 when she was ill, you identified one time when you were there, then left to bring her some cough medicine and came back.

Right?

# 1127 A:

Yeah. Yeah.

# 1128 Q:

Were there any other occasions during that week when you were visiting Nicole where you were there, left and then came back?

# 1129 A:

Possibly.

# 1130 Q:

Do you have a specific recollection of any?

# 1131 A:

I know I bought the kids dinner at least one night that week and went to probably Rosti to get it, so obviously I'm pretty sure that I did at least one time that week go to Rosti to get it and came back.

# 1132 Q:

You were already at Nicole's place and--

# 1133 A:

Yeah.

# 1134 Q:

--then left--

# 1135 A:

Yeah.

# 1136 Q:

--and came back?

# 1137 A:

I'm pretty sure.

# 1138 Q:

How would you get back into the property when you returned to the property to get back in?

# 1139 A:

I don't recall.

# 1140 Q:

Did you have a key?

# 1141 A:

She may have given me a key one of those times. May have, but I don't recall.

# 1142 Q:

You don't recall.

# 1143 A:

No.

# 1144 Q:

Is that correct?

# 1145 A:

Yes.

# 1146 Q:

Do you know any other person. other than Nicole, who in May or June of 1994 had keys to her apartment? A: Firsthand, no, but I think Cora did.

# 1147 Q:

When you say, "Firsthand, no," what does that mean?

# 1148 A:

I never saw her hand a key to anyone else.

# 1149 Q:

What makes you believe that Cora may have had a key?

# 1150 A:

Because I believe when we were on a trip--I know she had a key to Cora's house, and when we were on a trip, couple of trips we were on, I believe Cora was--had a key to her house. It just seems to me that she had mentioned that Cora had a key to her house for something.

# 1151 Q:

You didn't see the key. Right?

# 1152 A:

No.

# 1153 Q:

And you never got the key from Cora. Right?

# 1154 A:

No.

# 1155 Q:

And you've never seen Cora take possession or hold or use the key. Right?

# 1156 A:

No. I've been in Nicole's house when Cora's come in, but actually that was on Gretna Green. I've been in her house upstairs with Nicole in the shower, Nicole's in the shower, I'm in the shower, and Cora's come in the house, so I assume she had a key.

# 1157 Q:

Just an assumption on your part?

# 1158 A:

Yes. Yes. And I'm pretty sure I've heard her say that Cora had a key.

# 1159 Q:

You're pretty sure you heard who say?

# 1160 A:

Nicole state that Cora's had a key.

# 1161 Q:

When did she tell you that?

# 1162 A:

I don't know. During the course of the year or so we were back together.

# 1163 Q:

Did you question why Cora had a key?

# 1164 A:

No.

# 1165 Q:

And you don't know of anybody else who had a key to Nicole's Bundy condo. Is that correct?

# 1166 A:

No.

# 1167 Q:

That's correct?

# 1168 A:

Yes.

# 1169 Q:

After Nicole's death, you never got a key to her condo. Correct?

# 1170 A:

No. No.

# 1171 Q:

Is that correct?

# 1172 A:

That's correct.

# 1173 Q:

And you don't know of anybody else who received the key to the condo after Nicole's death. Correct?

# 1174 A:

No, that's not correct.

# 1175 Q:

What do you know in that regard?

# 1176 A:

I know A.C. got a key.

# 1177 Q:

When did A.C. get a key?

# 1178 A:

I don't know. There was some things that they were trying to move, and he got a key from the Browns.

# 1179 Q:

The Browns gave A.C. a key?

# 1180 A:

Yes.

# 1181 Q:

When did that occur?

# 1182 A:

I don't know. Sometime in June.

# 1183 Q:

After Nicole's death?

# 1184 A:

Yes.

# 1185 Q:

How do you know that?

# 1186 A:

I just remember they were talking about getting something--helping move, is what I think it had to do, helping to move some things, and I believe--or maybe it was getting something for-might have had something to do with getting some clothes for Nicole or getting something for the kids that week, but I'm pretty sure A.C. had access to the house.

# 1187 Q:

Are you telling me that--This is a -This is access--Withdrawn.

You are saying that A.C. got a key to Nicole's condo--

# 1188 A:

Got access. I think a better word would be "access."

# 1189 Q:

What does "access" mean?

# 1190 A:

The ability to get in.

# 1191 Q:

How do you know that?

# 1192 A:

Because there was some conversation about it.

# 1193 Q:

You were present?

# 1194 A:

I just heard it being spoken about.

# 1195 Q:

You heard who speaking about it?

# 1196 A:

I believe it was A.C. and maybe Lou Brown.

# 1197 Q:

When were you in the presence of A.C. and Lou Brown?

# 1198 A:

At the wake I was in the presence of Lou Brown and at the funeral in the presence of Lou Brown, I think on the phone a few times speaking to Lou Brown, and A.C. I believe was in and out and around.

He was running errands, bringing my kids to me, bringing the kids back to Laguna, doing various things.

# 1199 Q:

Were you ever in a conversation with Lou Brown and A.C. Cowlings when the subject of access to Nicole's condo came up?

# 1200 A:

I believe. yes. l believe it was the subject of getting something from Nicole's house, and I believe I was, yes, but I can't-I don't have a specific memory.

# 1201 Q:

Where was that conversation?

# 1202 A:

I don't know.

# 1203 Q:

What exactly was said?

# 1204 A:

I told you I don't have a specific memory.

# 1205 Q:

What was said at all about access?

# 1206 A:

I just recall A.C. was supposedly helping the Browns get something or move something from Nicole's house.

# 1207 Q:

But you don't know that A.C. actually received a key to the condo. Correct?

# 1208 A:

That's correct.

# 1209 Q:

And you have never seen A.C. Cowlings possess a key to Nicole's condo. Correct?

# 1210 A:

No. That's correct.

a That's correct?

# 1211 A:

Yes.

# 1212 Q:

So other than this conversation that you may have--or whatever you heard in this conversation, you are not aware of anybody else getting a key to Nicole's condo after her death. Correct?

# 1213 A:

Access, keys--access, I think Ron Hardy's someone -I don't know firsthand. You're right. I don't know firsthand.

a You don't know that anybody actually got a key to the condo. Correct?

# 1214 A:

Correct.

# 1215 Q:

Including Cowlings. Correct?

# 1216 A:

Correct.

# 1217 Q:

Did you ever use a key to Nicole's condo to the back gate?

# 1218 A:

No.

# 1219 Q:

Do you know whether you even needed a key?

# 1220 A:

No.

# 1221 Q:

You don't know?

# 1222 A:

I don't know. I know it locks.

# 1223 Q:

But you don't know whether you need a key to get in or out?

# 1224 A:

I've never looked at it and see if you need a key. I never thought about it, no.

# 1225 Q:

Can you estimate for me how many times you went to Nicole's property on the 16th of May when she was ill?

# 1226 MR. LEONARD:

On the 16th? MR. PETROCELLI: The week of the 16th.

# 1227 MR. BAKER:

I thought we talked about--

Go ahead. You can answer, O.J., if you have an estimate.

# 1228 O.J. SIMPSON:

I think pretty sure on the 17th I did. I don't know if I went on the 16th at all. I may not even have been in town on the 16th. I'm pretty sure on the 17th, 18th and 19th I did probably twice each day.

# 1229

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1230 Q:

On those occasions Nicole was ill with a pneumonia?

# 1231 A:

Yes.

# 1232 Q:

And she was confined to bed?

# 1233 A:

Well, not really, but for the most part, yeah.

# 1234 Q:

For the most part she was in bed?

# 1235 A:

Whenever I saw her, she was in bed a few times and she was out of bed a few times.

# 1236 Q:

Where is her bedroom.

# 1237 A:

On the third floor, depending on which side of the property you're entering from.

# 1238 Q:

That's the top floor?

# 1239 A:

Yeah.

# 1240 Q:

And the front door accesses which level of the property?

# 1241 A:

Second.

# 1242 Q:

Second?

# 1243 A:

Uh-huh.

# 1244 Q:

And the garage, when you come in through the garage, what floor do you enter into?

# 1245 A:

The bottom.

# 1246 Q:

And then you take another set of stairs to the second floor?

# 1247 A:

Yes.

# 1248 Q:

And that's where the living room and kitchen are. Correct.?

# 1249 A:

Yes.

# 1250 Q:

And the bedroom is upstairs, correct, Nicole's bedroom?

# 1251 A:

Yes.

# 1252 Q:

I would like to show you some photographs, which I am going to mark as exhibits 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21. 0kay?

# 1253 (Plaintiffs' Exhibits 10 through 21 were marked for identification by the reporter and are attached hereto.)

# 1254

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1255 Q:

I have handed you exhibits 10 through 21, which depict various articles of clothing. You've looked through exhibits 10 through 21, Mr. Simpson?

# 1256 A:

Yes.

# 1257 Q:

You recognize that clothing?

# 1258 A:

Not necessarily, no.

# 1259 Q:

Do you recognize any of it?

# 1260 A:

Not necessarily, no.

# 1261 Q:

When you say "not necessarily"

# 1262 A:

I mean, I recognize Calvin Klein underwear--

# 1263 Q:

Let's--

# 1264 MR. BAKER:

Go ahead. Finish your answer, O.J.

# 1265 O.J. SIMPSON:

I recognize Calvin Klein underwear and I recognize white socks, yeah.

# 1266

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1267 Q:

Exhibit 10 is a picture of a jacket. Do you see that?

# 1268 A:

Yeah.

# 1269 Q:

Is that yours?

# 1270 A:

I don't know.

# 1271 Q:

Do you know whose jacket that is?

# 1272 A:

No.

# 1273 Q:

No idea if it's your jacket?

# 1274 A:

No.

# 1275 Q:

Could it be?

# 1276 A:

If I could see the size--

# 1277 MR. BAKER:

Is it possible? Wait, wait. Don't answer that.

# 1278 MR. KELLY:

I am sorry. What number are we on?

# 1279 MR. LEONARD:

10.

# 1280 MR. BAKER:

That is irrelevant and has no probative value, and it's immaterial whether it could be when he has no recollection. There is no foundation, and I instruct him not to answer the question.

# 1281 MR. PETROCELLI:

If that standard were applied to the criminal trial, it would have lasted half the time.

# 1282 Q:

Look at Exhibit 11. It depicts a shirt. Do you see that?

# 1283 A:

Yes.

# 1284 Q:

Is that your shirt?

# 1285 A:

I really couldn't say.

# 1286 Q:

It says Palm Beach Polo.

# 1287 A:

Does it?

# 1288 Q:

Let me see. No, it doesn't. Next one does.

Do you recognize that shirt?

# 1289 A:

Do I?

# 1290 Q:

Yes.

# 1291 A:

I recognize it as a white shirt.

# 1292 Q:

Is it your shirt?

# 1293 A:

I really couldn't say.

# 1294 Q:

Do you know whose shirt that is?

# 1295 A:

I have no idea.

# 1296 Q:

I would like you to take a look at Exhibit 12, a shirt with the name "Palm Beach Polo" on it. Do you see that?

# 1297 A:

Yes.

# 1298 Q:

Do you recognize that shirt?

# 1299 A:

I've seen a shirt like this, and I think I've owned a shirt like this.

# 1300 Q:

Do you still have it?

# 1301 A:

I don't know.

# 1302 Q:

Have you seen it lately?

# 1303 A:

I haven't looked for it lately.

# 1304 Q:

Have you seen it since you were released from jail?

# 1305 A:

Not that I know of. Possibly. I see all my shirts hanging in my closet. I don't look to see the decals on them, so I don't know. Maybe I have seen it.

# 1306 Q:

You do own a shirt like the one depicted in Exhibit 12. Correct?

# 1307 A:

I believe so, yes.

# 1308 Q:

Okay. Take a look--

# 1309 MR. LEONARD:

Dan, which number was that?

# 1310 MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1311 MR. BAKER:

12.

# 1312

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1313 Q:

Take a look at Exhibit 13. depicting some socks. Are those your socks?

# 1314 A:

I have no idea. No way of knowing.

# 1315 Q:

Do you have socks like that?

# 1316 A:

White socks, yes.

# 1317 Q:

Did you have socks like the ones depicted in Exhibit 13 in June of 1994?

# 1318 A:

I owned white socks.

# 1319 Q:

Like those?

# 1320 A:

Well, I can't sec the details on them, but they're white socks from what I can see.

# 1321 Q:

You did own white in June of 1994?

# 1322 A:

Yes.

# 1323 Q:

Take a look at Exhibit 14 depicting a white and blue pair of underwear. Calvin Klein, I believe?

# 1324 A:

Yes. I can't tell if they're Calvin Kleins or not.

141 Q: Are those your pairs of underwear?

# 1325 A:

I have no way of knowing.

# 1326 Q:

Did you own underwear like that in June of 1994?

# 1327 A:

I owned Calvin Kleins and Jockey underwear, yes.

# 1328 Q:

Did you own the color blue and the color white?

# 1329 A:

White for sure. Blue, I don't know.

# 1330 Q:

You don't remember?

# 1331 A:

No.

# 1332 Q:

Are you affiliated in any way-Withdrawn.

Take a look at the next photograph, Exhibit 15, depicting a shirt--two shirts. One that says what on it? It says "Don't Knock New York, Donna Karan, New York." Do you see that?

# 1333 A:

Yes.

# 1334 Q:

Is that your shirt?

# 1335 A:

It could be.

# 1336 Q:

You owned a shirt like that in June of 1994?

# 1337 A:

I'm not sure, but I did work for Donna Karan--I mean I had a lot of Donna Karan stuff.

# 1338 Q:

They gave you free clothing?

# 1339 A:

Yes. Sometimes, yes. Q: You mean before you were incarcerated, you worked for Donna Karan and received clothing from them?

# 1340 A:

No, I didn't work for them, but I had sort of--I liked their clothes, yes.

# 1341 Q:

You received clothing from Donna Karan before you were incarcerated. Correct?

# 1342 A:

Yes. Yes.

# 1343 Q:

Next is Exhibit 16, which depicts two more shirts. Are those your shirts?

# 1344 A:

I have no way of knowing.

# 1345 Q:

Do they look like shirts you owned in June of 1994?

# 1346 A:

I owned T-shirts, yes.

# 1347 Q:

Like those?

# 1348 A:

I don't know what these are like.

# 1349 Q:

That look like those.

# 1350 A:

They look like white T-shirts.

# 1351 Q:

Did you own such T-shirts in June of 1994?

# 1352 A:

I own white T-shirts, yes.

# 1353 Q:

Okay. Not currently. Did you in June of 1994? All my questions are directed to that time frame.

# 1354 A:

Yes.

# 1355 Q:

Okay. Next is Exhibit 17, which depicts a Polo shirt. Is that your shirt?

# 1356 A:

I have no way of knowing.

# 1357 Q:

It's extra large. Is that your size?

# 1358 A:

Sometimes, yes.

# 1359 Q:

Did you wear extra large Polo shirts in June of 1994?

# 1360 A:

I don't know.

# 1361 Q:

You don't know?

# 1362 A:

I don't know. This is a Polo make.

# 1363 Q:

I don't recall.

# 1364 Q:

Did you wear extra large shirts in June of 1994?

# 1365 A:

Sometimes, yes.

# 1366 Q:

Did you own any Polo shirts?

# 1367 A:

I don't know.

# 1368 Q:

Is that your shirt?

# 1369 A:

I have no way of knowing.

# 1370 Q:

Next is Exhibit 18, a pair of Calvin Klein underwear. Is that yours?

# 1371 A:

I have no way of knowing.

# 1372 Q:

Did you own that in June of '94?

# 1373 A:

Own what?

# 1374 Q:

That pair of underwear.

# 1375 A:

I told you I have no way of knowing that these are mine. How can I--

# 1376 Q:

Did you wear Calvin Klein underwear?

# 1377 A:

I'm sure I did, yes.

# 1378 Q:

In June of 1994?

# 1379 A:

I'm sure I owned some pair then, yes.

# 1380 Q:

By Calvin Klein?

# 1381 A:

I'm positive I did, yes.

# 1382 Q:

Next is Exhibit 19, Nike shirt. Is that your shirt?

# 1383 A:

I have no way of knowing.

# 1384 Q:

Did you own a shirt like that in June of 1994?

# 1385 A:

I don't know.

# 1386 Q:

Did you receive clothing from Calvin--from Nike, as you did from Donna Karan, prior to being incarcerated?

# 1387 A:

In my life? I'm sure I did.

# 1388 Q:

Within a year of your incarceration?

# 1389 A:

I have no way of knowing.

# 1390 Q:

Did Nike provide from time to time free clothing to you?

# 1391 A:

I doubt it, but they could have. They could have, yes.

# 1392 Q:

Next is Exhibit 20, depicting two pairs of socks. Are those your socks?

# 1393 A:

I would have no way of knowing.

# 1394 Q:

Did you own those socks in June of 1994?

# 1395 A:

l have no way of knowing if they're my socks. How can I say if I owned them.

# 1396 Q:

Next is Exhibit 21, a pair of Calvin Klein white underwear. Is that yours?

# 1397 A:

I have no way of knowing.

# 1398 Q:

Did you own that in June of 1994?

# 1399 A:

I have no way of knowing if they're mine, so I wouldn't know if I owned them.

# 1400 Q:

Did you bring any of these items with you to Mr. Kardashian's house during the week of June 14th, 1994?

# 1401 A:

I have no way of knowing.

# 1402 Q:

Did you bring these items--did you put all of these items into your black bag in June of 1994?

# 1403 A:

I have no way of knowing.

# 1404 Q:

You don't remember?

# 1405 A:

I don't know if those are my items, so I can't recall if I put them in this black bag or not.

# 1406 Q:

Did you bring these items into the Bronco with you when you went on the trip to Nicole?

# 1407 A:

I have no way of knowing.

# 1408 Q:

Were they in the Bronco with you?

# 1409 A:

I have no way of knowing.

# 1410 Q:

You don't remember?

# 1411 A:

No.

# 1412 Q:

So if these items were recovered from your bag, you would have no way of saying that these are not now items. Is that right?

# 1413 A:

Yes. That's correct.

# 1414 Q:

And if they were obtained from the Bronco where you were lying down, you would have no way knowing that they're not your items. Correct?

# 1415 MR. BAKER:

That's kind of a double negative.

# 1416 O.J. SIMPSON:

I don't get it.

# 1417

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1418 Q:

In other words, if these were found in or near your bag in the Bronco, you can't say that they're not your items. Correct?

# 1419 MR. BAKER:

Wait a minute. If they were found in or near--

# 1420 MR. PETROCELLI:

Yes.

MR. BAKER-his bag in the Bronco--

# 1421 MR. PETROCELLI:

Yes.

# 1422 MR. BAKER:

-you can't say that they're your items, and I am going to instruct him not to answer based on the pictures because you can't tell from the pictures whether they're his, whether they're A.C.'s or someone else.

# 1423 MR. PETROCELLI:

Who's talking about A.C.? He never mentioned A.C. Why did you mention A.C., Mr. Baker?

# 1424 MR. BAKER:

My depo isn't being taken.

# 1425 MR. PETROCELLI:

Exactly. That's my point.

# 1426 MR. BAKER:

I don't care what your point is, and I'm trying to respond to your question.

# 1427 MR. PETROCELLI:

My point is, stop trying to suggest answers. The witness can speak for himself. Just make an objection.

# 1428 MR. BAKER:

Thank you very much.

# 1429 MR. PETROCELLI:

Just make an objection, and we will move on.

# 1430 MR. BAKER:

Well, thank you very much for your speech, and I really am not taking legal advice from you, so I will put anything on the record that I feel like I am going to, so you--

# 1431 MR. PETROCELLI:

You know better than that, Mr. Baker.

# 1432 MR. BAKER:

Don't tell me what I know and what I don't know--

# 1433 MR. PETROCELLI:

Then don't testify.

# 1434 MR. BAKER:

-in court telling me what the state of mind of my client was, and if you knew, you probably had some conversations with him in violation of the Code of Professional Conduct. So don't give me that nonsense. I'm--

# 1435 MR. PETROCELLI:

Are you finished?

# 1436 MR. BAKER:

--not going to put up with it.

# 1437 MR. PETROCELLI:

Are you finished?

# 1438 MR. BAKER:

I'm finished for now, but I'll put anything on the record I want.

# 1439

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1440 Q:

Okay. You put those items in the Bronco?

# 1441 A:

I have no way of knowing.

# 1442 Q:

You deny doing it?

# 1443 MR. BAKER:

Don't answer that.

He's answered the question, and he is not going to answer that. That's argumentative.

Don't answer it.

# 1444

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1445 Q:

You don't know what clothes you own, Mr. Simpson?

# 1446 MR. BAKER:

Don't answer that question.

# 1447 MR. PETROCELLI:

Why not?

# 1448 MR. BAKER:

Because you are arguing.

# 1449 MR. PETROCELLI:

I am not arguing.

# 1450 MR. BAKER:

No. You put photographs that are unidentifiable, and now you try to make a quantum leap, and I am not going to let him answer.

# 1451

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1452 Q:

In June of 1994 you were familiar with the clothing that you owned. Correct?

# 1453 A:

To the most part, yes.

# 1454 Q:

And did you put any of the items that I showed you into the Bronco?

# 1455 A:

I don't know if those are any of my items.

# 1456 Q:

Did you put them in the Bronco?

# 1457 A:

I don't know if they were any of my items.

# 1458 MR. BAKER:

Don't answer it, O.J.

# 1459 MR. PETROCELLI:

Excuse me?

# 1460 MR. BAKER:

Don't answer the question.

# 1461

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1462 Q:

Did you--before you left of the house on the 17th, did you put anything into the bag?

# 1463 A:

Yes.

# 1464 Q:

What did you put?

# 1465 A:

I believe I took a picture. One of the pictures was out, and I put it in the bag.

# 1466 Q:

Did you put any clothing in there?

# 1467 A:

On that day, no.

# 1468 Q:

Did anybody do that for you?

# 1469 A:

No.

# 1470 Q:

I will represent to you that those items that I showed you were all items recovered from the Bronco. Do you have any way of disputing that?

# 1471 MR. BAKER:

Don't. He has asked and answered that, and we are not going--

# 1472

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1473 Q:

Do you know for a fact that that's not true, that they were not in the Bronco?

# 1474 MR. BAKER:

Don't answer that question.

# 1475 MR. PETROCELLI:

He can answer that question.

# 1476 MR. BAKER:

I told him he couldn't. Don't give my client legal advice.

# 1477 MR. PETROCELLI:

What is the objection?

# 1478 MR. BAKER:

The advice is it's asked and answered and it's argumentative, and I'm not going to let him answer it.

# 1479 MR. PETROCELLI:

It's argumentative?

# 1480 MR. BAKER:

You've been through this five times--

# 1481 MR. PETROCELLI:

I am not getting a clear answer.

# 1482 MR. BAKER:

Maybe that's your impression. I think you are getting very clear answers. He is not going to answer it.

# 1483

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1484 Q:

Do you know for a fact that those items were not in the Bronco?

# 1485 MR. BAKER:

Don't answer that.

# 1486 MR. PETROCELLI:

On what ground?

# 1487 MR. BAKER:

I am not going to -You've gone through that. I am not going to allow you--

# 1488 MR. PETROCELLI:

You are not even going to state your objections?

# 1489 MR. BAKER:

No, I'm not.

# 1490 MR. PETROCELLI:

Okay. Well, we will just have to let the judge--

# 1491 MR. BAKER:

I think you should.

# 1492 MR. PETROCELLI:

--take a look at these objections.

# 1493 MR. BAKER:

I think you should.

# 1494

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1495 Q:

Identify every item that you know was in the black bag when you took it into the Bronco when you left Kardashian's house on the 17th.

# 1496 A:

I believe three pictures, a gun, whatever underwear and stuff I may have had in there when I left Rockingham earlier in the week--

# 1497 Q:

By "stuff," what do you mean?

# 1498 A:

Maybe socks, underwear. underapparel.

# 1499 Q:

Any other articles of clothing?

# 1500 A:

Maybe -under-apparel. I don't think anything else could fit in there with the gun and the three pictures.

# 1501 Q:

Anything else?

# 1502 A:

Credit cards, keys, watches. The only reason I know that is I saw some kind of property list, but other than that, I don't know.

# 1503 Q:

What keys were in there?

# 1504 A:

I don't know.

# 1505 Q:

You have no idea?

# 1506 A:

Uh-uh. No. I'm sorry.

0: I would like to talk a little bit about the examination conducted on the 17th of June by Drs. Huizenga, Lee and Baden. You testified about that yesterday.

# 1507 A:

Yes.

# 1508 Q:

And they took some photographs?

# 1509 A:

I believe so.

# 1510 Q:

Can you tell me, what were they saying to you at that time?

# 1511 A:

I don't recall.

# 1512 Q:

You don't have any recollection at all?

# 1513 A:

Not at all.

# 1514 Q:

Do you know why they were examining you?

# 1515 MR. BAKER:

And exclude any conversations that you had with your lawyers about that incident, about them being there.

# 1516

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1517 Q:

Were lawyers there with them.

# 1518 A:

I believe Shapiro was there.

# 1519 Q:

While they were examining you?

# 1520 A:

And Bob Kardashian.

# 1521 Q:

While they were examining you?

# 1522 A:

I believe so.

# 1523 Q:

Can you remember what was said?

# 1524 A:

No.

# 1525 Q:

Do you know why they were examining you?

# 1526 MR. BAKER:

Again, exclude any conversations that you had with your lawyers relative to the reason for their examination.

# 1527 O.J. SIMPSON:

No, not really.

# 1528

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1529 Q:

Paula Barbieri was there also. Right?

# 1530 A:

I believe she was in the house, yes.

# 1531 Q:

And Denise Halicki. Right?

# 1532 A:

I believe they were in the house.

# 1533 Q:

Cowlings, too. Right?

# 1534 A:

I don't know.

# 1535 Q:

Now, was that the first time you had been examined by any doctor that week?

# 1536 A:

No.

# 1537 Q:

What other examinations occurred that week?

# 1538 A:

Dr. Huizenga examined me.

# 1539 Q:

Now, where did Huizenga examine you?

# 1540 A:

In his office.

# 1541 Q:

Where is his office?

# 1542 A:

In Beverly Hills.

# 1543 Q:

Who else was present, if anyone?

# 1544 A:

I believe my lawyers were. I'm not sure of this, but I believe my lawyers, Kardashian and Shapiro, were.

# 1545 Q:

Kardashian, Shapiro and Huizenga?

# 1546 A:

I believe.

# 1547 Q:

Anybody else?

# 1548 A:

I don't recall.

# 1549 Q:

What happened at that examination?

# 1550 A:

I got examined.

# 1551 Q:

They checked every part of your body?

# 1552 A:

I believe so.

# 1553 Q:

And did they take photographs?

# 1554 A:

I don't recall. Q: Did they find any injuries? Any injury marks?

# 1555 MR. BAKER:

You mean from his past?

# 1556 MR.PETROCELLI:

No.

# 1557 MR. BAKER:

From his past operations?

# 1558 MR. PETROCELLI:

Whatever.

# 1559 MR. BAKER:

What do you mean, "whatever?"

Don't answer that question.

# 1560

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1561 Q:

Any injury marks. Did they find any injury marks on your body?

# 1562 A:

I don't recall. Whatever they examined, they examined.

# 1563 Q:

You don't recall?

# 1564 A:

I don't recall.

# 1565 Q:

Let's go to the 17th for a second. Did the doctors then find any injury marks on your body?

# 1566 A:

I don't recall. Whatever's on my body, I guess they found.

# 1567 Q:

What injury marks did you have on your body on the 17th of June?

# 1568 MR. BAKER:

If any.

# 1569

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1570 Q:

If any.

# 1571 A:

You have to be a little more specific. Q: In what way?

# 1572 A:

: What injuries. I mean, okay, they found that I have a bad left knee--

# 1573 Q:

Marks.

# 1574 A:

--from knee surgery, I have scars on my knee.

Whatever I had, whatever was on my body, they found.

# 1575 Q:

What do you know that was on your body on the 17th of June? What marks?

# 1576 MR. BAKER:

If you have--Are you talking about his scars? Because you went through this all yesterday.

# 1577 Q:

I want to know specifically what marks that you had on your body, injury marks, bruises, cuts, whatever, on the 17th of June.

# 1578 MR. BAKER:

I don't know what an injury mark is. He will answer the question bruises and cuts if he has any recollection.

In other words, if you--

# 1579 O.J. SIMPSON:

I'm not trying to be difficult. I don't understand what you mean here. I truly don't.

# 1580

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1581 A:

You mean like recent cuts, open cuts, old cuts?

# 1582 A:

Including those, yes.

# 1583 A:

Whatever they looked at. I got so many scars and bruises and old cuts on my body. Whatever was on my body. I didn't go with--you know, I was in space, I guess. Whatever was on my body, they found.

# 1584 Q:

Did you have any open cuts on your body on the 17th of June?

# 1585 A:

l don't know about open, no.

# 1586 Q:

Did you have any recent cuts on your body on the 17th of June?

# 1587 A:

On my finger I had a recent cut.

# 1588 Q:

Where on your finger?

# 1589 A:

On my left hand on my--I don't know what you would call this finger (Indicating).

# 1590 MR. BAKER:

Ring finger?

# 1591 O.J. SIMPSON:

No. Actually my middle finger on my left hand.

# 1592

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1593 Q:

On the 17th of June you had a recent cut on the middle finger of your left hand?

# 1594 A:

I would say five-day recent, possible.

# 1595 Q:

And did you have any other cuts on your body, other than the one on your finger that you just mentioned, on the 17th of June?

# 1596 A:

I still, once again, I don't know. 1 don't know.

# 1597 Q:

You don't know?

# 1598 A:

No. I don't know how to answer that. I got cuts, as you can see, all over my body, and I--that's what I have. My body is--I've been in a lot of games--

# 1599 Q:

Let's talk--

# 1600 A:

--and I received a lot of injuries.

# 1601 MR. BAKER:

Let him finish.

# 1602

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1603 Q:

Okay. I want to know about cuts that you had on your body on the 17th of June when the doctors were examining you that had been caused within the previous seven days.

# 1604 MR. BAKER:

So is there a question in there?

# 1605 MR. PETROCELLI:

Yes.

# 1606 MR. BAKER:

Regardless of what you want to know?

# 1607 MR. PETROCELLI:

Yes.

# 1608 MR. BAKER:

Where is the question?

# 1609

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1610 Q:

I want to know what those cuts were.

# 1611 MR. BAKER:

Then ask him a question.

# 1612 MR. PETROCELLI:

I just did.

# 1613 MR. BAKER:

You didn't. You told him what you wanted to know.

# 1614

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1615 Q:

Describe it to me.

# 1616 MR. BAKER:

Describe any recent cuts that you had that were of five days' duration or less.

# 1617 O.J. SIMPSON:

The only one that I was aware of-- MR. PETROCELLI: I said seven days.

# 1618 O.J. SIMPSON:

The only one I was aware of is the middle finger one.

# 1619

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1620 Q:

One cut on the middle finger.

# 1621 A:

That was the only one I was aware of, yes.

# 1622 Q:

On the 17th.

# 1623 A:

Yes.

# 1624 Q:

You were aware of no other cuts. Correct?

# 1625 A:

I wasn't aware of any cuts, no.

# 1626 Q:

Were you aware of any abrasions on the 17th of June?

# 1627 A:

On the 17th of June. I have trouble differentiating what I was aware of on the 17th that I found out after the 17th, so on the 17th I can't tell you what I was aware of.

# 1628 Q:

What did you find out after the 17th?

# 1629 A:

That I had other--on this side of my finger (Indicating) I had an abrasion.

# 1630 Q:

On the--

# 1631 A:

On the finger next to the ring finger. And then--

# 1632 MR. KELLY:

Could we have a description of the finger?

# 1633 MR. PETROCELLI:

One second.

# 1634 Q:

You just pointed to the ring finger. Correct?

# 1635 A:

Yes, I believe so.

# 1636 Q:

Ring finger being the one next to your pinkie.

# 1637 A:

Uh-huh.

# 1638 Q:

And you had an abrasion on the 17th of June on that ring finger. Is that correct?

# 1639 A:

I don't know. As I said, I became --in sitting in that court looking at evidence, they talked about those things.

# 1640 Q:

Your doctors did?

# 1641 A:

On the stand, yes.

# 1642 Q:

Drs. Huizenga and who?

# 1643 A:

I don't recall. I'm pretty sure Dr. Huizenga did.

# 1644 Q:

And they identified an abrasion on your ring finger.

# 1645 A:

Yes.

# 1646 Q:

On your left hand.

# 1647 A:

I may be not characterizing it right when I said I had an abrasion.

# 1648 Q:

Prior to the time they identified it in court, did you know that you had had that abrasion?

# 1649 MR. BAKER:

Do you have any recollection of having that abrasion?

# 1650 O.J. SIMPSON:

Not really, no.

# 1651

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1652 Q:

Did you tell the doctors on the 17th of any recent cuts or abrasions that you had received or injuries that you had received in the last seven days prior to the examination?

# 1653 A:

I don't recall

# 1654 Q:

Let's go back to the 15th, the Huizenga--was that at his office?

# 1655 A:

Yes.

# 1656 Q:

Where is his office?

# 1657 A:

In Beverly Hills somewhere.

# 1658 Q:

Did he take pictures?

# 1659 A:

I don't recall.

# 1660 Q:

Did anyone take pictures?

# 1661 A:

I don't recall.

# 1662 Q:

What cuts within the previous five days did you have as of the 15th of June that you can now remember?

# 1663 A:

The one on my middle finger; I know that. And maybe the abrasion, I may have had it then or by then.

# 1664 Q:

Any others?

# 1665 A:

Not that I recall.

# 1666 Q:

Do you remember telling the doctors about any cuts or bruises or abrasions you sustained within the prior five days, on the 15th of June?

# 1667 A:

I think I talked about this middle finger cut, yes.

# 1668 Q:

Did you talk about anything else?

# 1669 A:

Not that I recall.

# 1670 Q:

Did the doctors on the 15th ask you how you got that?

# 1671 A:

I don't recall.

# 1672 Q:

Did they ask you on the 17th how you got that?

# 1673 A:

I don't recall.

# 1674 MR. BREWER:

Mr. Petrocelli, for the record, I would like to describe what the witness is pointing to twice with respect to those cuts. He has referred to something as an abrasion on his left middle--left ring finger, and actually what he has done--correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. Simpson--is you were motioning to the medial aspect of that finger--

# 1675 O.J. SIMPSON:

Yes.

# 1676 MR. BREWER:

--inside of the finger, back and forth.

Is that a more specific description or location of that abrasion?

# 1677 O.J. SIMPSON:

I believe so.

# 1678 MR. BREWER:

And then the other description, you have rubbed on the middle finger of your left hand where the knuckle area is to describe a cut.

Is that an accurate description of where that cut was located?

# 1679 O.J. SIMPSON:

That is correct.

# 1680 MR. BAKER:

Where the joint is. He wasn't describing the knuckle.

# 1681 MR. KELLY:

Excuse me. Can we go off the record for a moment?

# 1682 MR. PETROCELLI:

Off the record.

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the end of tape No. 1 of Volume II. The time is approximately 11:40, and we are off the record.

# 1683 (Discussion held off the record.)

# 1684 MR. BAKER:

Let me just correct what Michael Brewer said, because I think he mentioned the knuckle of O.J. Simpson's middle finger of his left hand, and we were talking about the joint that he was rubbing.

# 1685 MR. BREWER:

That's correct, Mr. Simpson?

# 1686 O.J. SIMPSON:

That's correct, yes.

# 1687

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1688 Q:

When you were examined by Dr. Huizenga on the 15th of June, had any recent cuts or abrasions or wounds that you may have received been fully healed by the 15th of June?

# 1689 A:

I don't believe so, but I'm not sure. You'd have to ask the doctor.

# 1690 Q:

What did you tell the doctor on the 15th as to how the cut on the middle finger was caused?

# 1691 MR. BAKER:

If you told him anything.

# 1692 O.J. SIMPSON:

I don't recall if we talked about it, but we may have. We may have. I don't recall.

# 1693

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1694 Q:

What did you say?

# 1695 MR. BAKER:

There is no foundation for that question if he doesn't recall

# 1696

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1697 Q:

you don't recall what he said?

# 1698 A:

No.

# 1699 MR. BAKER:

He doesn't recall even talking about it.

# 1700

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1701 Q:

I thought you said earlier that you discussed how that injury was caused.

# 1702 A:

I may have, but I don't--I may have, yes.

# 1703 Q:

What did you say?

# 1704 A:

I don't know if I did.

# 1705 Q:

And you can't recall. Right?

# 1706 A:

I must have, but I don't recall. I don't recall any specific conversation.

# 1707 Q:

Do you recall on the 17th any discussion as to how you were cut?

# 1708 A:

Not at all.

# 1709 Q:

And how did you suffer the cut on the middle finger?

# 1710 A:

I broke a glass when I was in Chicago, and in the process of cleaning it up I evidently cut my finger.

# 1711 MR. KELLY:

I couldn't hear that. I'm sorry, Mr. Simpson.

# 1712 O.J. SIMPSON:

I said, in the process of cleaning--not cleaning it up, but scooping it up, I evidently cut my finger.

# 1713

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1714 Q:

Did you remember cutting your finger?

# 1715 A:

I remember bleeding.

# 1716 Q:

Do you remember cutting your middle finger on--

# 1717 A:

I remember bleeding and seeing that I was bleeding, so...

# 1718 Q:

This was on the morning of June 13, 1994?

# 1719 A:

Yes.

# 1720 Q:

At your hotel in Chicago?

# 1721 A:

Yes.

# 1722 Q:

Name of that hotel?

# 1723 A:

I don't remember.

# 1724 Q:

And exactly how did you cut it with the glass?

# 1725 A:

I was trying to scoop the glass into the sink with some toilet paper and I believe a towel.

# 1726 Q:

You were at the sink of the hotel room?

# 1727 A:

Yes.

# 1728 Q:

In the bathroom.

# 1729 A:

Yes.

# 1730 Q:

What were you doing there at that time?

# 1731 A:

I don't know. I was going back and forth to the phone. I was trying to pack. I was trying to brush my teeth. I was in and out of the bathroom.

# 1732 Q:

And at some point you did something to a glass?

# 1733 A:

Yes.

# 1734 Q:

A drinking glass?

# 1735 A:

Yes.

# 1736 Q:

Was it like the glass next to you to your right?

# 1737 A:

Yeah, a drinking glass.

# 1738 Q:

About that tall (Indicating)?

# 1739 A:

I don't know.

# 1740 Q:

And did it have anything in it?

# 1741 A:

I don't recall.

# 1742 Q:

Can you show that glass on camera? Because I referred to it for the record.

# 1743 (Witness complies.)

# 1744 Q:

Was it a glass about that size?

# 1745 A:

I don't recall.

# 1746 Q:

And the glass was sitting where?

# 1747 A:

On the counter in the bathroom.

# 1748 Q:

Upright or upside down?

# 1749 A:

I believe I had my toothbrush set in there.

# 1750 Q:

And was there anything else in the glass besides your toothbrush? A: I don't recall.

# 1751 Q:

Had you already used your toothbrush?

# 1752 A:

l don't recall.

# 1753 Q:

When did you put the toothbrush in the glass?

# 1754 A:

Probably the night before.

# 1755 Q:

When you got into the hotel?

# 1756 A:

Yeah.

# 1757 Q:

So you got to the hotel and you unpacked?

# 1758 A:

Yeah.

# 1759 Q:

You took out your toiletries?

# 1760 A:

Yes.

# 1761 Q:

And took your toothbrush out and put it in the glass?

# 1762 A:

I believe so.

# 1763 Q:

Did you use that glass at any point before the time you hit it?

# 1764 A:

I don't recall.

# 1765 Q:

You don't remember?

# 1766 A:

No.

# 1767 Q:

And tell me exactly how you cut your hand on that glass with the toothbrush in it on the counter and the sink.

# 1768 A:

I don't believe that's correct, what you just said.

# 1769 Q:

It was on the sink counter in the bathroom. Right?

# 1770 A:

Yes.

# 1771 Q:

And the toothbrush was in it. Right?

# 1772 A:

Not when it broke, it wasn't. And I don't even know if the toothbrush was in it. I believe there were two glasses, and I just don't recall.

# 1773 Q:

One with your toothbrush in it?

# 1774 A:

I'm pretty sure. Normally when I check into a hotel, I'll put my toothbrush in a glass, so I'm assuming that I did--

# 1775 Q:

And the other glass--

# 1776 MR. BAKER:

You've got to wait until he finishes.

# 1777 MR. PETROCELLI:

I am sorry, Mr. Baker. I'm jumping the gun a little bit.

# 1778 Q:

Are you finished?

# 1779 A:

Yes.

# 1780 Q:

The other glass did not have a toothbrush in it?

# 1781 A:

I don't believe so. I only had one toothbrush, and if I put it in, I would have only used one glass.

# 1782 Q:

Were both glasses about the same size as the one you just showed on the video?

# 1783 A:

I don't really recall.

# 1784 Q:

And they were both standing or sitting on the countertop next to one another?

# 1785 A:

I don't recall.

# 1786 Q:

Was there anything underneath the glasses, like a towel or a napkin?

# 1787 A:

I don't recall.

# 1788 Q:

And describe what you did to break the glass and cut yourself.

# 1789 A:

I don't really know.

# 1790 Q:

You said something about your palm of your hand? What did you say before?

# 1791 A:

I didn't say anything about breaking the glass at all. You didn't ask me about breaking the glass.

# 1792 Q:

How did you cut your finger?

# 1793 A:

Cleaning up the broken glass.

# 1794 Q:

How did the glass get broken?

# 1795 A:

I don't know. I was--I don't know. I was out of it, and I was doing a few things and the glass broke, and I was going back and forth to the phone, and maybe I slammed it down. Maybe I knocked it over. I really don't know.

# 1796 Q:

You are saying you do not know how the glass broke. Is that right?

# 1797 A:

Yes.

# 1798 Q:

And at some point you saw that there was a broken glass. Correct?

# 1799 A:

No. At some point I was trying to get my toiletries together.

# 1800 Q:

And you saw there was broken glass around. Correct?

# 1801 A:

Yes.

# 1802 Q:

And where was the broken glass, Mr. Simpson?

# 1803 A:

Mostly on the counter, and I think one big piece was on the floor.

# 1804 Q:

And was any of it in the sink?

# 1805 A:

I don't know. Probably some of it.

Maybe. I don't know.

# 1806 Q:

And you then went to pick up the piece on the floor?

# 1807 A:

I was going back and forth to the telephone, and I was trying to pack, and I was trying to get it out of my way as I was packing.

# 1808 Q:

And you saw the broken glass, and you wanted to get it out of the way. Correct?

# 1809 A:

Correct.

# 1810 Q:

Were you on the phone at the time this was happening?

# 1811 A:

I was going back and forth to the phone, So I can't tell you exactly. I wasn't really, you know, trying to remember everything I was doing at that time, so...

# 1812 Q:

I am trying to focus on the point in time when you saw the glass. Okay?

# 1813 MR. BAKER:

What do you mean, "when you saw the glass?"

# 1814

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1815 Q:

When you saw that there was broken glass on the--

# 1816 A:

At some point after I was told that my wife was dead--or that Nicole was dead, I broke the glass. In the process of going back and forth to the phone and trying to get packed, I cut myself trying to move the glass out of my way. Somewhere in that, that happened.

# 1817 Q:

Now, how did you break the glass?

# 1818 A:

I don't know. I think I answered that already. I don't know

# 1819 Q:

You said--But you do remember breaking the glass. Right?

# 1820 A:

I remember the glass was broke, yes.

# 1821 Q:

But you don't know how you broke it?

# 1822 A:

No.

# 1823 Q:

But you are confident you broke it?

# 1824 A:

Yes.

# 1825 Q:

And when you broke it, where was the glass?

# 1826 A:

In the bathroom.

# 1827 Q:

You went into the bathroom and then, while you can't remember how, broke the glass.

# 1828 A:

Yes.

# 1829 Q:

Correct?

# 1830 A:

Yes.

# 1831 Q:

Why did you break the glass?

# 1832 A:

I had no purpose in breaking the glass.

# 1833 Q:

Did you break one glass or two glasses?

# 1834 A:

I believe it was one.

# 1835 Q:

Did you throw the glass?

# 1836 A:

I don't recall.

# 1837 Q:

Did you squeeze it?

# 1838 A:

I doubt that, but I don't recall.

# 1839 Q:

When you broke the glass, were you on the phone?

# 1840 A:

I don't recall.

# 1841 Q:

Did you break the glass after you got off the phone?

# 1842 A:

I don't recall.

# 1843 Q:

Did you break the glass during the conversation when the detective told you that Nicole had been killed?

# 1844 A:

No.

# 1845 Q:

What phone was it that you were using?

# 1846 A:

The phone by the bed.

# 1847 Q:

Was that the only phone in the room?

# 1848 A:

I don't know.

# 1849 Q:

Was there a phone in the bathroom

# 1850 A:

I don't know.

# 1851 Q:

Did you use your cell phone in that room.

# 1852 A:

No.

# 1853 Q:

Immediately after you broke the glass, you then began--what was your next movement?

# 1854 A:

I don't know. As I told you, I was going back and forth to the phone. Sometimes they had me on hold, sometimes various people I was talking about was trying to find me a flight, and I was just going back 151 and forth trying to pack, and that's--

# 1855 Q:

After--

# 1856 A:

--and in the midst of all of that this glass broke, and in the midst of all of that I was cleaning up the glass, and in the midst of all of that all of this happened.

# 1857 Q:

After the detective told you Nicole had been killed--

# 1858 A:

No.

# 1859 Q:

did you make another phone call before you broke the glass?

# 1860 A:

I don't recall.

# 1861 Q:

Do you believe you were on hold when you went to the bathroom and broke the glass?

# 1862 A:

I don't know.

# 1863 Q:

Are you confident that you broke the glass while it was in the bathroom.

# 1864 A:

Yes.

# 1865 Q:

Right after you broke the glass, did you pick up the pieces?

# 1866 A:

I don't recall.

# 1867 Q:

You don't know when you picked up the pieces?

# 1868 A:

Someone in the midst of all of that, trying to pack a bunch of toiletries, I did.

# 1869 Q:

And what is the length of time that that process took?

# 1870 A:

Well, from the time--

# 1871 MR. BAKER:

What process are we talking about?

# 1872 MR. PETROCELLI:

After he found out about the--Nicole's death and then he was packing and rushing around and--

# 1873 MR. BAKER:

Making phone calls?

# 1874 MR. PETROCELLI:

--making phone calls.

# 1875 Q:

That whole process, how long did that take?

# 1876 A:

From the time the police told me to the time I was actually at Chicago O'Hare Airport on the plane was about 60 minutes. So I must have been on five, six, seven phone calls, packed, checked out of the hotel, got a ride to the airport and got on the plane in 65 minutes, so--or in something roughly that long, so obviously a lot was going on.

# 1877 Q:

How long were you in the hotel room after the call from the detective about your ex-wife's death?

# 1878 A:

I don't know.

# 1879 Q:

More than 20 minutes?

# 1880 A:

I would think so, yes.

# 1881 Q:

Half hour?

# 1882 A:

Possibly.

# 1883 Q:

Longer?

# 1884 A:

I don't know.

# 1885 Q:

When you picked up the glass-Withdrawn.

When you broke the glass, did it cause a cut at that time?

# 1886 A:

I don't believe so, no.

# 1887 Q:

And do you know where the glass struck your body?

# 1888 A:

I don't know if it ever struck my body.

# 1889 Q:

Your hand.

# 1890 A:

No.

# 1891 Q:

Do you know even if you used your left hand to break the glass?

# 1892 A:

No.

# 1893 Q:

You don't know which hand you used?

# 1894 A:

No.

# 1895 Q:

Did you throw it against the wall?

# 1896 A:

No. I don't recall.

# 1897 Q:

Did you throw the glass in the sink?

# 1898 A:

I don't believe so.

# 1899 Q:

Did you slam the glass down on the table--on the--I'm sorry--on the counter?

# 1900 A:

Possibly.

# 1901 Q:

Picked it up and then slammed it down. Is that your best recollection of how you broke the glass?

# 1902 A:

No, I didn't say that. I said that was a possibility.

# 1903 Q:

You say it's a "possibility." Does that sound like what happened?

# 1904 A:

That's a possibility.

# 1905 Q:

Are there any other possibilities that you know of?

# 1906 A:

Obviously a myriad of possibilities.

# 1907 Q:

Do any come to mind besides slamming the glass down on the counter?

# 1908 A:

I may have knocked it over. I may have hit it with my bag that I use to pack.

# 1909 Q:

Do you believe--

# 1910 A:

I mean my bag that I have my things in. I don't know. I know when I--I don't know. I was sort of out of it at the time.

# 1911 Q:

Did you break the glass accidentally?

# 1912 A:

Yeah. I believe so, yes.

# 1913 Q:

In other words, you were not intending to break the glass. Correct?

# 1914 A:

I had no intentions of anything but getting out of there and getting home.

# 1915 Q:

Were you attempting to break the glass?

# 1916 A:

No.

# 1917 Q:

You cut yourself when you picked up the pieces of the glass. Correct?

# 1918 A:

I never--I picked up maybe a piece off the floor. I'm not sure. But I didn't pick up the other pieces, no.

# 1919 Q:

You picked up a single piece from the floor?

# 1920 A:

I believe so, yes.

# 1921 Q:

The floor of what?

# 1922 A:

The bathroom.

# 1923 Q:

Were you wearing shoes at the time?

# 1924 A:

I don't know.

# 1925 Q:

How were you dressed when the officer called?

# 1926 A:

I was in bed.

# 1927 Q:

How were you dressed?

# 1928 A:

Probably naked.

# 1929 Q:

Did you put any clothes on before you broke the glass?

# 1930 A:

I don't recall.

# 1931 Q:

Did you put any clothes on before you picked up the piece from the floor?

# 1932 A:

I don't recall.

# 1933 Q:

Did you put on any clothing before you began to pack up the items in the bathroom?

# 1934 A:

Probably.

# 1935 Q:

What clothes did you have on when you went into the bathroom to pick up the glass?

# 1936 A:

Pardon me?

# 1937 Q:

What clothes did you have on when you went into the bathroom to pick up the glass from the floor?

# 1938 A:

I don't recall.

# 1939 Q:

And what did you use, if anything, to pick up the glass?

# 1940 A:

I didn't pick up the glass.

# 1941 Q:

The glass piece on the floor.

# 1942 A:

Probably my hand.

# 1943 Q:

Did you have anything in your hand, like a towel or a napkin?

# 1944 A:

I don't recall.

# 1945 Q:

Which hand did you use to pick up the broken piece of glass?

# 1946 A:

I don't remember.

# 1947 Q:

When you picked it up, did you cut yourself?

# 1948 A:

I don't think so, no.

# 1949 Q:

So as of this point in time, your finger--your middle finger on your left hand was not cut. Correct?

# 1950 A:

I believe so, yes.

# 1951 Q:

Is that correct?

# 1952 A:

I believe so, yes.

# 1953 Q:

When you picked up the piece of --There were no other cuts on your left hand at that time either. Correct?

# 1954 A:

Correct.

# 1955 Q:

And when you picked up the piece of glass--

# 1956 A:

Not that I know of, I should say.

# 1957 Q:

When you picked up the piece of glass, what did you do with it?

# 1958 A:

Put it in the sink.

# 1959 Q:

And were there any other pieces in the sink at that time?

# 1960 A:

I don't know.

# 1961 Q:

Did you cut yourself at all putting it into the sink?

# 1962 A:

No.

# 1963 Q:

And did you then--what did you do after you put the piece of glass in the sink?

# 1964 A:

I don't recall.

# 1965 Q:

Did you clean up any other pieces of glass?

# 1966 A:

Eventually or at some point. yes.

# 1967 Q:

Later on in the process of packing?

# 1968 A:

And talking on the phone and getting dressed, yes.

# 1969 Q:

When you say "and talking on the phone," you intermittently would be going back from the bathroom to the bedroom, make phone calls and go back in the bathroom.

# 1970 A:

Yes.

# 1971 Q:

How many items did you have in the bathroom?

# 1972 A:

Whatever my toiletries were.

# 1973 Q:

They all come in what, a little travel bag?

# 1974 A:

Yes.

# 1975 Q:

And how many items had you taken out of that travel bag the night before?

# 1976 A:

Whatever was in it.

# 1977 Q:

What was in it?

# 1978 A:

Shaving cream, toothpaste, toothbrush, mouthwash, probably my medication. I'd say a razor blade, I guess, underarm deodorant. Whatever was in it.

# 1979 Q:

Anything else you remember?

# 1980 A:

Not that I recall right now.

# 1981 Q:

What medication?

# 1982 A:

Motrin. And vitamins. I always have my vitamins, Vitamin E, Vitamin C, sometimes, yes.

# 1983 Q:

You laid all those things out on the bathroom counter the night before --

# 1984 A:

Yeah, probably.

# 1985 Q:

--or right before you went to bed. Right?

# 1986 A:

Yes.

# 1987 Q:

Was there anything else you unpacked and put in the bathroom.

# 1988 A:

Not that I recall.

# 1989 Q:

And when you say you packed up the items in the bathroom, you are now referring to the--you are referring to the items that you had taken out of the travel bag. Right?

# 1990 A:

That's correct.

# 1991 Q:

You put them back in the travel bag. Right?

# 1992 A:

Yes.

# 1993 Q:

Did you shave that morning?

# 1994 A:

I don't believe so.

# 1995 Q:

Did you take a shower?

# 1996 A:

I may have. I don't believe so.

# 1997 Q:

You don't believe you did?

# 1998 A:

I was trying to get out of there, so I don't--I really can't imagine taking a shower.

# 1999 Q:

Did you wash your face?

# 2000 A:

I'm sure I did, yes.

# 2001 Q:

Did you brush your teeth?

# 2002 A:

Yeah, I'm sure I did.

# 2003 Q:

Did you use the underarm deodorant?

# 2004 A:

I don't know.

# 2005 Q:

Did you use any cologne or aftershave?

# 2006 A:

I don't know.

# 2007 Q:

Did you take any medication that morning?

# 2008 A:

I probably took my Motrin at some point. Maybe not then, but at some point.

# 2009 Q:

Did you take it with water?

# 2010 A:

Probably I took it--I try to take it with food, so I probably took it on the plane.

# 2011 Q:

Did you eat anything in the hotel room?

# 2012 A:

No.

# 2013 Q:

Did you drink anything?

# 2014 A:

Other than water, and I may have not drank water. I don't know. I really don't.

# 2015 Q:

Do you remember drinking water?

# 2016 A:

No.

# 2017 Q:

Now, at what point in this process did you break--did you cut your finger?

# 2018 A:

Again?

# 2019 Q:

Yes.

# 2020 A:

Somewhere in between going back and forth to the phone, trying to pack, trying to get dressed, at some point in there I cut my finger.

# 2021 Q:

And on what piece of glass-Strike that.

Did you cut it on one of the broken pieces of glass?

# 2022 A:

Yeah.

# 2023 Q:

On what piece?

# 2024 O.J. SIMPSON:

Can we take a break?

# 2025 MR. BAKER:

Yeah, sure.

# 2026 O.J. SIMPSON:

Jesus Christ.

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are going off the record now, and the time is approximately 12:02.

# 2027 (Recess.)

# 2028 Q:

We have had a nine-minute break. You requested a break, Mr. Simpson. Correct?

# 2029 A:

Yes.

# 2030 Q:

And you wanted to talk to your lawyers?

# 2031 A:

No.

# 2032 Q:

You requested the break because you were uncomfortable with the subject matter?

# 2033 A:

No.

# 2034 MR. BAKER:

You don't have to answer why you requested a break. You don't have to answer that.

# 2035

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2036 Q:

I am not asking about the content of your discussions. I am asking about your state of mind in the middle of the examination.

# 2037 MR. BAKER:

His state of mind in the middle of examination is irrelevant, and I am going to instruct him not to answer.

# 2038

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2039 Q:

Did you talk to your lawyers during the break?

# 2040 A:

Yes.

# 2041 Q:

Why were you unable to continue with the examination?

# 2042 MR. BAKER:

Don't answer that.

That assumes that he was unable to continue with the examination. He is entitled to take a break.

# 2043

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2044 Q:

Why did you request a break during that part of the examination?

# 2045 MR. BAKER:

Don't answer that either.

# 2046 MR. PETROCELLI:

Excuse me?

# 2047 MR. BAKER:

I said, "Don't answer that..."

# 2048 MR. PETROCELLI:

He whispered something, Mr. Baker.

# 2049 O.J. SIMPSON:

No, I did not.

# 2050

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2051 Q:

You mouthed something.

# 2052 A:

I think I'm allowed to mouth something to myself, aren't I?

# 2053

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2054 Q:

What did you mouth?

# 2055 MR. BAKER:

You don't have to answer that either, Mr. Simpson. You are entitled to mouth things.

And if you want to continue to try to badger the witness, I've heard that on "Perry Mason," and it's not a good thing.

# 2056

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2057 Q:

Do you want to tell us what you were mouthing?

# 2058 MR. BAKER:

No, and don't tell him that either. That's not relevant to any issue in this case.

# 2059

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2060 Q:

Did you brush your teeth before or after you cut the glass?

# 2061 MR. BAKER:

That's been asked and answered.

# 2062 MR. LEONARD:

Cut the glass?

# 2063 MR. PETROCELLI:

Excuse me. Withdrawn.

# 2064 Q:

Did you brush your teeth before or after you broke the glass?

# 2065 A:

I don't recall.

# 2066 Q:

Did you brush your teeth before or after you picked up the glass?

# 2067 A:

I don't recall.

# 2068 Q:

What did you do to clean up the bathroom?

# 2069 MR. BAKER:

Well, I don't know that he testified that he cleaned up the bathroom.

# 2070

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2071 Q:

What did you do to clean up the broken glass?

# 2072 A:

Took some toilet paper and some towel and just--I didn't really clean it up. I just tried to scoop it out of my way.

# 2073 Q:

Toilet paper--

# 2074 A:

Yes.

# 2075 Q:

and a towel.

# 2076 A:

I believe so, yes.

# 2077 Q:

What did you do with the toilet paper?

# 2078 A:

I don't know. Either-I don't know. Some of it I know I had with me when I went to the lobby.

# 2079 Q:

What did you do with the towel?

# 2080 A:

I believe I left it in the room.

# 2081 Q:

What I am trying to get to is this: You picked up some toilet paper and you picked up the towel for the purpose of scooping out of the way the glass. Is that what you're saying?

# 2082 A:

Yeah, brushing out of the way the glass.

# 2083 Q:

Now, is this after you picked up the piece of glass on the floor and put it in the sink?

# 2084 A:

I'm pretty sure it is, yes.

# 2085 Q:

So now the glass is in the sink, a chunk of glass. Correct?

# 2086 A:

I'm pretty sure, yes.

# 2087 Q:

And there are other shards or chunks of glass on the counter top?

# 2088 A:

Yes.

# 2089 Q:

And you wanted to get those glasses off the counter top. Correct?

# 2090 A:

Actually I just wanted to put my stuff in my travel bag, and it was kind of around it, so...

# 2091 Q:

You hadn't yet put the stuff in the travel bag?

# 2092 A:

No.

# 2093 Q:

You remember that distinctly?

# 2094 A:

That's the only reason I took the time to sweep the stuff out of the way.

# 2095 Q:

Did you remember that before the break?

# 2096 MR. BAKER:

That's argument. Don't answer that question.

# 2097

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2098 Q:

So in trying to pick up the items and put them into the travel bag, you then went to the toilet paper holder and took a piece of toilet paper out?

# 2099 A:

I believe so, yes.

# 2100 Q:

And you put it in your hand?

# 2101 A:

Yes. I probably wrapped it on my hand.

# 2102 Q:

And then you also -Oh, you wrapped it around your fingers?

# 2103 A:

No. I think I just took a ball of it and was using it, and then I probably used it--

# 2104 Q:

Which hand?

# 2105 MR. BAKER:

Just a minute.

# 2106 MR. PETROCELLI:

I apologize.

# 2107 THE REPORTER:

"Probably used it"?

# 2108 MR. BAKER:

In a sweeping motion and probably used a towel, is what he said, if I recall.

# 2109 MR. PETROCELLI:

Mr. Baker, in fairness to me, his voice is tailing off, and I'm not quite sure when he is finished with his statement. That's why I'm interjecting.

# 2110 MR. BAKER:

Then you can wait for a moment, unless you believe that the staccato approach is what you have to do to get an answer, but I think that he is entitled to the courtesy of finishing his answer, and you are attempting to pepper him with questions and not allow it, and that is not appropriate.

# 2111 MR. PETROCELLI:

I am not going to debate that with you.

# 2112 Q:

Let's go back to the examination. You got the toilet paper, wrapped it around what hand, by the way?

# 2113 A:

I don't know. I may have just balled it up.

# 2114 Q:

Balled it up.

# 2115 A:

Possibly, yes.

# 2116 Q:

Are you right-handed or left-handed?

# 2117 A:

Right-handed.

# 2118 Q:

What hand did you put the toilet paper in?

# 2119 A:

I really don't know. At some point it could have been in both hands.

# 2120 Q:

You took two pieces of toilet paper and balled them up into both hands?

# 2121 A:

No.

# 2122 Q:

You took one piece, balled it up into one hand?

# 2123 A:

I believe so, yes.

# 2124 Q:

Which hand?

# 2125 A:

It could have been both hands, as I answered.

# 2126 Q:

Can you demonstrate what you mean by that?

# 2127 MR. BAKER:

You don't have to demonstrate, Mr. Simpson.

# 2128

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2129 Q:

Could you show us what you mean?

# 2130 MR. BAKER:

It's irrelevant whether he could. This is a question and answer.

# 2131

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2132 Q:

Will you show us?

# 2133 MR. BAKER:

No, he won't.

# 2134

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2135 Q:

You will not show us?

# 2136 MR. BAKER:

I indicated that he will not.

# 2137 MR. PETROCELLI:

On what theory?

# 2138 MR. BAKER:

Because he doesn't have to. This is not show-and-tell time. This is just tell time.

# 2139

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2140 Q:

You took a piece of--single piece of toilet paper and put it into both hands at the same time.

# 2141 A:

I don't think I've ever said that.

# 2142 Q:

I am trying to find out what you're saying.

# 2143 MR. BAKER:

Just say no.

# 2144 O.J. SIMPSON:

No.

# 2145

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2146 Q:

Just describe what you did with the toilet paper as best and as clearly as you can so we can all understand.

# 2147 A:

I believe I took some toilet paper and used it and then at one point probably grabbed a towel and used it.

C: When you took the toilet paper and used it, you mean you put it in the palm of your hand, and then you used it to scrape off the glass?

# 2148 A:

I believe so. I could have also--I believe so. I'm not totally sure. I may have just-I may have cut my finger when I was using the towel, and I just took the toilet paper and wrapped it around my finger. I'm not really sure as the sequence. My concern at that time was to get a flight out of Chicago, and I was going back and forth to the plane [sic].

# 2149 Q:

You are not sure then that you took the toilet paper to scoop the glass into the sink at all.

# 2150 A:

I know I had toilet paper in my hand during that period of time, yes.

# 2151 Q:

But you don't know whether you had it before or after you put the glass into the sink.

# 2152 A:

That is correct. That is correct. Well, during the process of doing it, at what process of doing it, I don't know if I did it in the middle of it or in the end of it, but at some point I did.

# 2153 Q:

You do also remember taking a towel. Correct?

# 2154 A:

Yes.

# 2155 Q:

A washcloth?

# 2156 A:

I believe so.

# 2157 Q:

What did you do with the washcloth?

# 2158 A:

I'm pretty sure, as I answered before, that I left it in the room.

# 2159 Q:

What did you do with the washcloth in reference to the glass?

# 2160 A:

I'm sorry. I don't understand that.

# 2161 Q:

Did you use the washcloth to scrape off the glass from the sink or to pick it up or to do anything with respect to the glass?

# 2162 A:

I don't recall.

# 2163 Q:

Did you have anything on your hands, either toilet paper or a washcloth, when you were scraping off the glass shards into the sink?

# 2164 A:

At first I think I was just moving them, and then I grabbed some paper, toilet paper. I may have even been using one of my--my bag thing at one point, but then I do know I grabbed toilet paper at one point and a towel at one point. So I do know during the course of it, going back and forth, I may have done it all.

I wasn't concentrating on it. I was concentrating on getting a phone call or getting back to the phone and trying to get dressed, is what my mind was on at the time, not on how I was moving the glass. It really wasn't something I was paying a lot of attention to.

# 2165 Q:

Why did you--What was your purpose in going to the--

# 2166 MR. BREWER:

Mr. Petrocelli, before you go on, the witness as he is answering you is making a motion with his left hand, with the back of his hand, like he's scraping the glass or moving the glass, just for the record.

# 2167

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2168 Q:

What was your purpose in using the toilet paper and the towel?

# 2169 A:

I don't know. Either I had cut my hand or I was trying not to cut my hand, one or the other. Q: That's what I'm getting to: Was the toilet paper and the towel intended to address a cut that just occurred, or did you pick it up to use it to clean off the sink?

# 2170 A:

Both. As I said, it was either one or the other. I really wasn't really paying much attention to it at the time.

# 2171 Q:

When you cut yourself, did you have toilet paper on the hand that you cut?

# 2172 A:

I don't think so. I don't think so, but...

# 2173 Q:

When you cut yourself, did you have a towel in the hand that you cut?

# 2174 A:

Possibly.

# 2175 Q:

Where was the towel in the hand when you cut yourself?

# 2176 A:

I don't know.

# 2177 Q:

And how exactly with the towel in your hand did you cut yourself on the glass?

# 2178 A:

I was trying to scrape whatever I had in my hand. I was trying to move it, and it happened.

# 2179 Q:

Let the record reflect that you are demonstrating a sort of--

# 2180 A:

Yes.

# 2181 Q:

--a sweeping motion.

# 2182 A:

Yes.

# 2183 Q:

And did the glass come into contact with the back of your hand? The front of your hand? Where?

# 2184 A:

I don't know.

# 2185 Q:

Where did you cut yourself?

# 2186 A:

On my knuckle.

# 2187 Q:

Which knuckle?

# 2188 A:

The middle knuckle of my left hand.

# 2189 Q:

You cut yourself on the middle knuckle on the outside--

# 2190 A:

Yes.

# 2191 Q:

--of your middle finger?

# 2192 A:

Yes.

# 2193 Q:

When you cut yourself, did you feel any pain?

# 2194 A:

No.

# 2195 Q:

And did you see that you were bleeding?

# 2196 A:

I would assume so at one point. Obviously I did, yes.

# 2197 Q:

No. At that point when you cut yourself, did you notice blood?

# 2198 A:

If I didn't feel pain, I didn't know I cut myself. So at whatever point I saw blood, I assumed that I had cut myself.

# 2199 Q:

When did you first see blood?

# 2200 A:

When I was in the bathroom.

# 2201 Q:

Did you see blood before you left the bathroom to go out to the phone area?

# 2202 A:

Yes.

# 2203 Q:

Did any blood drip off of your finger onto another surface?

# 2204 A:

I would assume so.

# 2205 Q:

Did you clean up any blood?

# 2206 A:

When I wiped off the counter, I just pushed everything into the sink.

# 2207 Q:

Including your blood?

# 2208 A:

I don't recall that.

# 2209 Q:

Do you remember using anything to clean off blood?

# 2210 A:

Not particularly, no.

# 2211 Q:

Did blood drip into the sink?

# 2212 A:

I don't know.

# 2213 Q:

You don't know?

# 2214 A:

No.

# 2215 Q:

Did blood drip on the floor?

# 2216 A:

I don't recall. I wasn't trying to clean up the bathroom.

# 2217 Q:

Did you wash out your cut?

# 2218 A:

I believe--I don't think I washed it off because I just put--whatever I had on it, I put some more paper on it, and that's what I went downstairs with.

# 2219 Q:

Did you put your cut under the water, cold water, hot water, whatever, to wash it out?

# 2220 A:

I don't recall.

# 2221 Q:

Did you keep the toilet paper on your finger from the moment you observed the cut until you left the room?

# 2222 A:

I would pretty much think so. I may have added some to it yes.

# 2223 Q:

And did you also keep a towel on the cut?

# 2224 A:

Until I left the room--

# 2225 MR. BAKER:

Wait a minute. "Keep a towel." He has never testified he put a towel on the cut.

# 2226

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2227 Q:

Did you put the towel on the cut?

# 2228 A:

I don't recall. I may have. It may have been in my hand also when I was going back and forth to the phone.

# 2229 Q:

Was the blood bleeding onto the towel?

# 2230 A:

l would assume so.

# 2231 Q:

Do you know so?

# 2232 A:

No.

# 2233 Q:

Did you see blood on the towel?

# 2234 A:

I wasn't looking for blood.

# 2235 Q:

I know. Did you see it, though?

# 2236 A:

I don't recall seeing it, no.

# 2237 Q:

Did you see blood on the toilet paper?

# 2238 A:

Yes, plenty.

# 2239 Q:

Lots of it?

# 2240 A:

When I got downstairs and I unwrapped it to get--to show the girl to get me a Band-Aid, yes.

# 2241 Q:

Did you call down and ask for a Band-Aid or any first-aid when you saw the cut?

# 2242 A:

I think from the time I cut my hand-I'm not sure of this, but from the time I cut my hand to the time I got downstairs wasn't so very long, but, no, I wouldn't have waited. I was trying to get out of the room.

# 2243 Q:

From the time you cut your hand, you completed packing up your items in the bathroom. Right?

# 2244 A:

I don't know.

# 2245 Q:

You put the rest of the stuff in the travel bag?

# 2246 A:

I don't understand your question.

# 2247 Q:

After you cut your hand and after you put the toilet paper around it, you then completed packing. Correct?

# 2248 A:

Yes, at some point, yes.

# 2249 Q:

Including packing up the items in the bathroom. Right?

# 2250 A:

Yes.

# 2251 Q:

You put everything into the travel bag and zippered it up and walked out of the bathroom. Is that right?

# 2252 A:

I don't know if that's in that sequence, but eventually obviously I did, yes. I may have--

# 2253 Q:

What are all the things you did before you left the room after you cut yourself and put the toilet paper around your finger?

# 2254 A:

I don't know because I don't know at what point in time I had cut my finger. I was trying to get packed, as I told you. I was going back and forth to the telephone, as I told you. During the course of doing all of that, I cut my finger. At what point during all of that, I don't know.

# 2255 Q:

When you left the hotel room, did you see any blood left behind?

# 2256 A:

I didn't look for any blood left behind, so I wasn't really looking, no.

# 2257 Q:

Did you see any?

# 2258 A:

I don't recall seeing any, no.

# 2259 Q:

Did you see any blood in the sheets of the bed?

# 2260 A:

No, I don't recall seeing any, no.

# 2261 Q:

Did you unpack your clothing when you got the room that evening?

# 2262 A:

I hung up my suit, yes.

# 2263 Q:

How many bags did you bring into the hotel room besides your travel bag?

# 2264 A:

Bag?

# 2265 Q:

Excuse me. Besides the little bathroom bag, how many other items of luggage did you bring into the hotel room with you?

# 2266 MR. BAKER:

Well, that assumes the bathroom bag was a separate piece of luggage and not in the grip, which is not what he's testified to.

So don't answer that question.

# 2267

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2268 Q:

Are you saying that the items of toiletry that you described were carried in your grip?

# 2269 A:

Are you asking me that question?

# 2270 Q:

I'm asking that question now.

# 2271 A:

Yes.

# 2272 Q:

There wasn't a separate little bag for the shaver and the deodorant; it was all in the grip?

# 2273 MR. BAKER:

He has testified to you that your question--my objection was your question assumed that the toiletry bag was outside of the grip when he brought it into the room. That was my objection.

# 2274 MR. PETROCELLI:

Let me see if I understand this.

# 2275 Q:

You had toiletries in a separate toiletry bag which itself was in the black grip bag. Correct?

# 2276 A:

That's correct.

# 2277 Q:

And when you brought the toiletries into the bathroom to unpack right before you went to bed, as you previously described, did you bring just the toiletry bag or the whole grip bag into the bathroom?

# 2278 A:

Probably just the toiletry bag. Probably just the toiletry bag.

# 2279 Q:

So you left the grip bag in the bedroom. Correct?

# 2280 A:

More than likely, yes.

# 2281 Q:

So when you finished packing after you cut your finger, you took the toiletry bag and put it in the grip bag. Right?

# 2282 A:

That's correct.

# 2283 Q:

What other items of luggage besides the toiletry and grip bag did you have in that room with you?

# 2284 A:

What other--I'm sorry.

# 2285 Q:

Items of luggage.

# 2286 A:

Of luggage.

# 2287 Q:

Yes.

# 2288 A:

Louis Vuitton bag.

# 2289 Q:

Is that a garment bag?

# 2290 A:

Yeah. It's a suitcase.

# 2291 Q:

Suitcase or one of those--

# 2292 A:

Fold-over suitcase.

# 2293 Q:

Fold-over.

# 2294 A:

Yeah.

# 2295 Q:

Louis Vuitton?

# 2296 A:

Uh-huh.

# 2297 Q:

You have to answer audibly.

# 2298 A:

Didn't I say "Louis Vuitton bag"?

# 2299 Q:

You said "uh-huh." You have to answer yes or no.

# 2300 A:

Yes.

# 2301 Q:

And what else?

# 2302 A:

A suit bag.

# 2303 Q:

A different suit bag than the Louis Vuitton bag?

# 2304 A:

That's correct.

# 2305 Q:

And what else?

# 2306 A:

That's all I recall.

# 2307 Q:

So two suit bags, one grip, and in the grip bag a toiletry bag

# 2308 A:

Yes.

# 2309 Q:

Anything else?

# 2310 A:

That's all I recall.

# 2311 Q:

What about your golf bag?

# 2312 A:

I never took them out of--the guy who brought me there, I never took them out of his car, since he was going to take them to the golf course and put them on the golf cart and lay all of my stuff out.

# 2313 Q:

So the golf bag never made it to your hotel room. Correct?

# 2314 A:

That's correct.

# 2315 Q:

Where exactly--Withdrawn What other unpacking did you do when you got to the hotel room besides take out the toiletry bag from the grip bag and hang up your clothing that you were wearing?

# 2316 A:

I hung up what I was going to wear to play golf the next day--

# 2317 Q:

Was that a different set of clothing than you wore to the hotel that night?

# 2318 A:

Yes.

# 2319 Q:

You took those clothes out. Correct?

# 2320 A:

Yes.

# 2321 Q:

What were they?

# 2322 A:

Golf clothes.

# 2323 Q:

Shirt and pants?

# 2324 A:

Shirt and pants, yeah.

# 2325 Q:

Shoes?

# 2326 A:

I'm sure my shoes was with my golf bag.

# 2327 Q:

Which bag were the shirt and pants in that you took out?

# 2328 A:

In my Louis Vuitton bag.

# 2329 Q:

Did you do any other unpacking?

# 2330 A:

Unpacking. There was nothing else to unpack. I took a book out of my thing. I may have looked at my travel thing again to see what the times were.

# 2331 Q:

When you said, "There was nothing else to unpack," there were other items in these two suitcases.

# 2332 A:

Yes.

# 2333 Q:

Correct?

# 2334 A:

Yes.

# 2335 Q:

What were they?

# 2336 A:

Golf clothes, underwear, socks, maybe a pair of dress shoes. I'm not sure of that.

# 2337 Q:

More golf clothes, you mean?

# 2338 A:

Another golf outfit, yes.

# 2339 Q:

And other attire as well?

# 2340 A:

I don't think so.

# 2341 Q:

How long were you planning to be gone?

# 2342 A:

One or two days.

# 2343 Q:

It was not determined yet?

# 2344 A:

If I would have found another golf game, since I had nothing to do Tuesday, I would have-that's why I brought the other golf outfit: So-which I do often, is--and if I saw Mike Ditka, I'd see if he wanted to play at his club. But, yeah, quite often I go to a tournament. If I have nothing to do and somebody got a good golf course to play, I'll stay and play golf.

# 2345 Q:

So in the two suitcases you had two golf changes of clothing. Correct?

# 2346 A:

No, that's not correct.

# 2347 Q:

What did you have?

# 2348 A:

I didn't have two suitcases.

# 2349 Q:

You had the Louis Vuitton bag and another bag, you said, another suitcase.

# 2350 A:

No, I didn't say that at all.

# 2351 Q:

You told me that you had a Louis Vuitton fold-over suitcase. Right?

# 2352 A:

Yes.

# 2353 Q:

And you had a second item of luggage similar to that. Right?

# 2354 A:

No. I had a suit bag.

# 2355 Q:

What's a "suit bag"?

# 2356 A:

When you buy a suit at a store, they put it in a bag and you carry it home.

# 2357 Q:

I see. What was in that suit bag?

# 2358 A:

A suit.

# 2359 Q:

For what purpose?

# 2360 A:

Because there were gonna be a cocktail party I would have to attend.

# 2361 Q:

What suit was it?

# 2362 A:

I don't know. It was a suit, whatever suit I took with me.

# 2363 Q:

And the dress shoes were in the Louis Vuitton bag?

# 2364 A:

I believe so.

# 2365 Q:

Did you come to Chicago with any other luggage besides the suit bag, the Louis Vuitton bag and the grip?

# 2366 A:

My golf clubs. My golf clubs.

# 2367 Q:

Anything other than that?

# 2368 A:

No.

# 2369 Q:

Did you have a second grip or duffel bag with you when you came to Chicago?

# 2370 A:

No. If it wasn't in my golf bag, nothing else.

# 2371 Q:

It might have been in your golf bag?

# 2372 A:

What do you mean by "might"?

# 2373 Q:

You said, "If it wasn't in my golf bag..."

# 2374 A:

In my golf bag, I had various things in my golf bag. So if it wasn't golf related, no.

# 2375 Q:

Well, we will get back to that.

On your cut, Mr. Simpson, where did you cut yourself when you--where on your finger?

# 2376 MR. BAKER:

That's been asked and answered. Don't answer it.

# 2377

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2378 Q:

Did you cut yourself on only one location on your middle finger?

# 2379 A:

As far as I knew, yes.

# 2380 Q:

And that had--you had not cut that same location prior to coming to Chicago. Right?

# 2381 A:

I don't think so, but--I don't think

# 2382 Q:

And you weren't aware of any cuts on your left hand prior to coming to Chicago. Correct?

# 2383 A:

No. I was--no, I never--no, I never saw a cut on my hand. No, I hadn't, no. That's correct.

# 2384 Q:

That's correct.

# 2385 A:

That's correct.

# 2386 MR. BREWER:

By "hand, " are you including fingers?

# 2387 O.J. SIMPSON:

Yeah. Yeah.

# 2388 MR. PETROCELLI:

Mr. Brewer--

# 2389 O.J. SIMPSON:

So a cut, no, I never saw a cut on my hand, no. That's correct.

# 2390

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2391 Q:

Just so we get this clear, prior to coming to Chicago and prior to cutting your hand in Chicago, you were not aware of any cuts of any kind on your hand. Correct?

# 2392 A:

I never saw a cut on my hand, no. That's correct.

# 2393 Q:

You never saw any cuts on your hand or any of the fingers on your hand. Correct?

# 2394 A:

That's correct.

# 2395 Q:

That would be true for either hand. Correct?

# 2396 A:

That's correct.

# 2397 Q:

And the only cut that you're aware of receiving as a result of the glass incident in Chicago is a cut on the knuckle of your middle finger. Correct?

# 2398 A:

That's correct.

# 2399 Q:

And you did not--did you look at the cut when it happened or shortly after you noticed it?

# 2400 A:

Yes.

# 2401 Q:

And did you examine it closely?

# 2402 A:

I don't know about "closely." I saw it was bleeding. I saw it was cut.

# 2403 Q:

How big was the cut?

# 2404 A:

I don't know. I can't--it was a cut. There was blood on it, so I couldn't tell. But I could just tell it was cut.

# 2405 Q:

Did you think you needed a stitch?

# 2406 A:

Not necessarily, no.

# 2407 Q:

Was there any skin that was jagged or abraded or pulled off the area of the cut?

# 2408 A:

It looked like a cut, whatever a cut looks like.

# 2409 Q:

A big cut?

# 2410 A:

It looked like a cut.

# 2411 Q:

Did you notice any other cuts around it or any abrasions?

# 2412 A:

No.

# 2413 Q:

Just the single cut.

# 2414 A:

That's correct.

# 2415 MR. PETROCELLI:

Okay, why don't we take our lunch break now. 1:30.

# 2416 MR. BAKER:

All right.

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are going off the record now, and the time is approximately 12:33.

# 2417 (At the hour of 12:33 p.m., a luncheon recess was taken, the deposition to resume at 1:30 p.m.)

# 2418 (At the hour of 1:37 p.m., the deposition of ORENTHAL JAMES SIMPSON was resumed at the same place, the same persons being present.)

# 2419 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit 8-A was marked for identification by the reporter and is attached hereto.)

# 2420

EXAMINATION (Resumed)

# 2421

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2422 Q:

Mr. Simpson, I would like to mark as Exhibit 8-A a calendar in which the Xeroxing has been reduced to a single page to make it more readable. I will represent to you this is a copy of what was previously marked as Exhibit 8.

Do you see that?

# 2423 A:

Yes.

# 2424 Q:

And that appears to be the same calendar that we discussed before that was filled out by Randa?

# 2425 A:

One of the two that was filled out by Randa.

# 2426 Q:

Okay. This appears to be a calendar pertaining to your appointments, though. Correct?

# 2427 A:

For the most part, yes.

# 2428 Q:

Okay. When family appointments or matters, events, were listed on this calendar, where would Randa get that information?

# 2429 A:

I don't get the question.

# 2430 Q:

In other words, there are items on the calendar not business related but family related. like--

# 2431 A:

Whose family?

# 2432 Q:

Your family.

# 2433 A:

Show me.

# 2434 Q:

Take a look at June 12, 1994 on Exhibit 8-A.

# 2435 A:

Uh-huh.

# 2436 Q:

What does that say?

# 2437 A:

I can't--oh, "Recital," yeah.

# 2438 Q:

"Recital." What does it say underneath it?

# 2439 A:

"Recital" is underneath.

# 2440 Q:

It says, "Sydney Recital Dance 5:00." Do you see that?

# 2441 A:

Yes.

# 2442 Q:

And that pertains to your daughter Sidney's dance recital at 5:00 p.m. on June 12. Correct?

# 2443 A:

Yeah, that's one of the two things here.

# 2444 Q:

Where would Miss Randa obtain that information to put on the calendar?

# 2445 A:

I would imagine from Nicole.

# 2446 Q:

Not from you?

# 2447 A:

No.

# 2448 Q:

She called Nicole from time to time to get these appointments, or Nicole called her?

# 2449 A:

Nicole would normally call her and give her various things she wanted Cathy to put on my calendar.

# 2450 Q:

I see. Is that what happened with the 5:00 p.m. dance recital for Sydney on June 12, 1994?

# 2451 A:

Possibly, yes.

# 2452 Q:

Do you recall Nicole telling or asking you to come to the recital?

# 2453 A:

Yes. She wanted to know if I was going to be in town.

# 2454 Q:

When did you and she have that conversation?

# 2455 A:

Numerous times, but the last time I believe was the Thursday or so before the reciul, Wednesday or Thursday night.

# 2456 Q:

June 8 or June 9, 1994?

# 2457 A:

Yes.

# 2458 Q:

Now, how did she tell you that; on the phone or in person?

# 2459 A:

Tell me what?

# 2460 Q:

That she wanted you to--wanted to know whether you would be in town and be able to attend Sydney's dance recital.

# 2461 A:

On the telephone. She just wanted to know whether I would be in town for the dance recital. I think she spoke to Cathy also during that week and talked about how many tickets I might need.

# 2462 Q:

And what did you tell her? That is, what did you tell Nicole when she asked you if you would be in town for the dance recital?

# 2463 A:

That I'd be back in town.

# 2464 Q:

How many tickets did you tell her you needed?

# 2465 A:

l didn't know if--she said she was getting a bunch--I don't know how many. I don't recall right now --and wanted to know if Arnelle and Jason was gonna go. I think it was sold out, which it always is. And I said I would see if--I think I told her I told Cathy to try to get two, and she had hers, and she wasn't really sure who all was coming, you know, things like that.

# 2466 Q:

You told her to make available tickets for Jason and Arnelle?

# 2467 A:

No, that's not correct. That's not what I said either. l said I didn't know if Jason or Arnelle--I think she asked me, were they going to come, and I said I didn't know. I said I did tell Cathy to see if she can get a few, and that was about the extent of it.

# 2468 Q:

Did you and Nicole discuss this before June 8 or June 9 on Wednesday or Thursday night, that is, whether or not you would be attending Sidney's dance recital?

# 2469 A:

I know the dance recital had come up before then. We knew the dance recital was coming up. I don't know the exact conversation was would I be in town, but it could have come up, yes.

# 2470 Q:

How long in advance of June 12 did you know about that recital?

# 2471 A:

I don't know.

# 2472 Q:

A month?

# 2473 A:

I don't know.

# 2474 Q:

Did you and Nicole discuss whether Paula Barbieri would attend with you?

# 2475 A:

Never.

# 2476 Q:

Did that subject come up at all?

# 2477 A:

Never.

# 2478 Q:

Nicole never mentioned it to you?

# 2479 A:

Never.

# 2480 Q:

You never mentioned it to her?

# 2481 A:

Never.

# 2482 Q:

Do you know whether she tried to find out from any other source whether Miss Barbieri would be attending with you?

# 2483 A:

# 2484 Q:

Did you ask her for a ticket for Miss Barbieri?

# 2485 A:

No.

# 2486 Q:

Did you plan to take Miss Barbieri with you?

# 2487 A:

No.

# 2488 Q:

There is another entry on that day that says "Kallie" or "Kallic Shower." Do you know what that is?

# 2489 A:

No.

# 2490 Q:

Do you know who that person is?

# 2491 A:

No.

# 2492 Q:

Do you know whose entry that pertains to? Excuse me. Do you know whether that pertains to you or to Miss Randa or--

# 2493 A:

It's Cathy's calendar, so I assume it pertains to Cathy.

# 2494 Q:

When you say, "It's Cathy's calendar," it's a calendar that Cathy kept?

# 2495 A:

As I explained to you before, yes.

# 2496 Q:

Did Cathy in 1994 also put on Nicole's own appointments on this calendar?

# 2497 A:

I don't know what you mean.

# 2498 Q:

In other words, if Nicole had appointments not involving you, like going out to lunch with somebody, would she coordinate with Cathy at all?

# 2499 A:

I doubt it.

# 2500 Q:

Cathy wasn't a calendar keeper for Nicole, in other words?

# 2501 A:

No.

# 2502 Q:

That's correct. Right?

# 2503 A:

That's correct.

# 2504 Q:

I would like to go to the subject of the luggage--

# 2505 MR. BAKER:

What?

# 2506

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2507 Q:

I want to go back to the subject of luggage and specifically the luggage that you took with you to Chicago, when you arrived in Chicago on the morning of June 13th.

So far you testified that you had with you the golf bag. Correct?

# 2508 A:

Uh-huh.

# 2509 Q:

You have to answer audibly.

# 2510 A:

Yes.

# 2511 Q:

You also testified that you had the Louis Vuitton bag. Correct?

# 2512 A:

Yes.

# 2513 Q:

And you also said you had your grip, your black grip. Correct?

# 2514 A:

Yes.

# 2515 Q:

And you also said you had the-a bag with the suit in it. Correct?

# 2516 A:

Yes.

# 2517 Q:

Now, was that bag with the suit in it the Louis Vuitton bag?

# 2518 A:

No. Now you talking about the 12th?

# 2519 MR. BAKER:

June 12.

# 2520

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2521 Q:

June 12.

# 2522 A:

No.

# 2523 Q:

Is there--Whatever luggage you went to Chicago with on June 12th, you came back with. Correct? Is that correct?

# 2524 A:

In a sense, yes.

# 2525 Q:

Explain what you mean.

# 2526 A:

I didn't know if my golf bag had come back.

# 2527 Q:

But you brought back the Louis Vuitton bag, correct--

# 2528 A:

Yes.

# 2529 Q:

--with you when you came back the morning of the 13th.

# 2530 A:

Yes.

# 2531 Q:

And you brought back the black grip. Right?

# 2532 A:

Yes.

# 2533 Q:

And you brought back the suit bag. Right?

# 2534 A:

Yes.

# 2535 Q:

And you were carrying those three items separately. Correct?

# 2536 A:

When?

# 2537 Q:

When you came back from Chicago.

# 2538 A:

No.

# 2539 Q:

How were you carrying them?

# 2540 A:

The Louis Vuitton bag and the grip.

# 2541 Q:

Where was the suit bag?

# 2542 A:

In the Louis Vuitton bag.

# 2543 Q:

But when you went to Chicago, the suit bag was not on the Louis Vuitton bag?

# 2544 A:

That's correct.

# 2545 Q:

Why was that?

# 2546 A:

Because I didn't want it to be wrinkled when I went to this affair. I wouldn't have had time to get it pressed.

# 2547 Q:

It didn't fold, that bag, the suit bag?

# 2548 A:

What do you mean?

# 2549 Q:

It wasn't folded?

# 2550 A:

At times, if I laid it gently, I'd fold it gently, but--

# 2551 MR. BAKER:

I think you are talking about two different things.

# 2552

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2553 Q:

The suit bag when you went to Chicago on June 12 from Los Angeles, it wasn't the type of bag that folded and snapped. It was--

# 2554 A:

No, it didn't fold and snap, but it folded over my arm or something.

# 2555 Q:

Okay. Did the golf bag have any other bags in it?

# 2556 A:

Yeah.

# 2557 Q:

Talking about now when you left Los Angeles on June 12.

# 2558 A:

Yes.

# 2559 Q:

What bags were in the golf bag?

# 2560 A:

I believe another pair of shoes. That had a pair of shoes in it, which is not really a bag. It's a little black thing that's a shoe bag. And a bag that had a windbreaker and some balls in it.

# 2561 Q:

Golf balls?

# 2562 A:

Yes.

# 2563 Q:

What was the color of that bag?

# 2564 MR. BAKER:

What was "that bag"?

# 2565 MR. PETROCELLI:

The bag that had the windbreaker and golf balls in it.

# 2566 O.J. SIMPSON:

I'm not sure. They had it in court one day, but I can't recall what the color was.

# 2567

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2568 Q:

Is that a bag that you always carried in your golf bag?

# 2569 A:

No.

# 2570 Q:

You always carried the shoe bag in your golf bag. Correct?

# 2571 A:

Not always, no.

# 2572 Q:

How would you transport your shoes when they were not in the shoe bag?

# 2573 A:

Sometimes I'd put them directly in the golf bag, and sometimes I'd just throw a shoe bag in, and sometimes I carried more than one pair of shoes, and the shoe bag--the shoes would be in the shoe bag. Only one pair fits in the shoe bag, and sometimes I carried more than one pair of shoes, golf shoes, with me.

# 2574 Q:

So the shoe bag, when it doesn't have any shoes in it, would also be carried in the golf bag?

# 2575 A:

No, not necessarily.

# 2576 Q:

You might carry it separately from the golf bag?

# 2577 A:

May not carry it.

# 2578 Q:

Just leave it home?

# 2579 A:

Yeah.

# 2580 Q:

But on this occasion you had the shoe bag--

# 2581 A:

I believe. I'm not sure about that. I just know when they brought all the golf stuff in court, the shoe bag was there, so I'm assuming it was in the overall bag.

# 2582 Q:

And were the golf shoes in the shoe bag?

# 2583 A:

A pair of golf shoes were in the shoe bag, yes.

# 2584 Q:

Did you bring another one with you to Chicago?

# 2585 A:

There were some black shoes that I know were in the outer cover bag that was definitely in there.

# 2586 Q:

Golf shoes?

# 2587 A:

Golf shoes, yes.

# 2588 Q:

So you went to Chicago on June 12 with two pairs of golf shoes.

# 2589 A:

Possibly, yes.

# 2590 Q:

One in the golf club bag and another in the shoe bag which was in the golf club bag. Correct?

# 2591 A:

No. One was in the golf shoe bag that was in the golf bag, I believe, and the other one definitely was just in the cover bag laying in the shoe-in the golf bag, cover bag of the golf bag.

# 2592 Q:

What is a cover bag?

# 2593 A:

It's a bag that you use to--normally use to travel with.

# 2594 MR. BAKER:

It's so that when you get there, you have all of your irons and your Callaway woods are still there, and the bellman--

# 2595

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2596 Q:

You mean the cover that goes over the clubs--

# 2597 A:

Yeah.

# 2598 Q:

and snaps onto the golf bag?

# 2599 A:

Yes.

# 2600 Q:

And you're saying--

# 2601 MR. BAKER:

No.

# 2602 O.J. SIMPSON:

No.

# 2603

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2604 Q:

Well, wait a second. You said "Yes." Your lawyer said "No." Explain yourself, Mr. Simpson.

# 2605 A:

What do you want me to explain myself? You're the one that's confused. What do you mean, explain myself?

# 2606 Q:

I don't understand your answer.

# 2607 A:

There's a cover bag that you can put your whole golf bag in when you travel.

# 2608 Q:

And in the cover bag which surrounded the entire golf bag--

# 2609 A:

There was--

# 2610 Q:

Some shoes.

# 2611 A:

--shoes, yes.

# 2612 Q:

Is there a compartment in the cover bag for the shoes?

# 2613 A:

I don't recall. I don't recall. This is--was a relatively new cover bag.

# 2614 Q:

Okay. And in the golf bag, you said you had the shoe bag with shoes in it.

# 2615 A:

I believe so. I'm not a hundred percent sure of that, but I believe so.

# 2616 Q:

Now, we had this other bag that had the windbreaker and the golf balls. Right?

# 2617 A:

Uh-huh.

# 2618 Q:

You have to answer audibly.

# 2619 A:

Yes. Yes.

# 2620 Q:

What was the color of that bag?

# 2621 A:

I'm not totally sure of that.

# 2622 Q:

What is your best recollection?

# 2623 A:

Blue, bluish-gray, blue.

# 2624 Q:

What was the color of the windbreaker?

# 2625 A:

Blue or green. One or the other. I'm not a hundred percent sure of that.

# 2626 Q:

Was it your windbreaker?

# 2627 A:

Yes.

# 2628 Q:

And had you used it before?

# 2629 A:

I don't know.

# 2630 Q:

Where did you get that windbreaker?

# 2631 A:

From Hertz.

# 2632 Q:

Did you see that windbreaker in court also?

# 2633 A:

I don't recall.

# 2634 Q:

Have you ever seen that windbreaker after you packed it for Chicago?

# 2635 A:

I don't recall.

# 2636 Q:

Have you ever seen the blue or bluish-gray bag--

# 2637 A:

Yes.

# 2638 Q:

--that was shown in court?

# 2639 A:

Yes.

# 2640 Q:

And when it was shown in court, did it have anything in it?

# 2641 A:

I don't recall.

# 2642 Q:

Did it have golf balls in it?

# 2643 A:

I don't recall.

# 2644 Q:

Do you always take that bag with the windbreaker and golf balls when you play golf?

# 2645 A:

Never. Never before.

# 2646 Q:

What made you do it this time?

# 2647 A:

When I was getting balls, it was the only bag--I don't know if it was the only bag, but it was a bag that was in the back of my Bentley when I was trying to find balls to take to Chicago with me.

# 2648 Q:

It's not a bag that you bought at a sports store or a golf store to carry golf balls, is it?

# 2649 A:

No.

# 2650 Q:

What was the use of that bag that you usually made?

# 2651 A:

For me it was no use at all. I play in a lot of tournaments, and they give you this crap all the time and it ends up in your car and your house, and my kids, people, take them or housekeepers use them. I get a lot of them, I mean a lot of them, and it was just something that was in the trunk of my car.

# 2652 Q:

How many of them were in the trunk?

# 2653 A:

I don't know. I didn't really count what was in the trunk of my car at that time.

# 2654 Q:

Was there more than one such bag in the trunk of your Bentley?

# 2655 A:

Could have been.

# 2656 Q:

You pulled that bag out. Is that what you're saying?

# 2657 A:

Well, I just grabbed a bag that was small that I could put balls in and a windbreaker in.

# 2658 Q:

Was the bag empty?

# 2659 A:

Yes.

# 2660 Q:

And the windbreaker that you put in it, is that a windbreaker that you bring with you to golf courses?

# 2661 A:

I hadn't, but I--it was given to me at a golf course during a golf tournament, so it was-you know, it was a gift that Hertz give out at one of our golf tournaments. You give it to the golfers.

# 2662 Q:

When did you receive that windbreaker?

# 2663 A:

I don't know.

# 2664 Q:

Had you ever used it before?

# 2665 A:

Possibly.

# 2666 Q:

Where was it on the evening of June 12 when you went to get it for your trip?

# 2667 A:

Laying in the trunk of my car.

# 2668 Q:

The windbreaker?

# 2669 A:

Yes.

# 2670 Q:

Where were the golf balls that you put into this bag?

# 2671 A:

In various bags in the trunk of my car.

# 2672 Q:

What kind of bags?

# 2673 A:

Just bags they give you at the country club to put your shoes in when you finish playing golf.

# 2674 Q:

So in those bags were golf balls?

# 2675 A:

Yes.

# 2676 Q:

And you emptied out those golf balls from those bags and put them into this bluish-gray bag?

# 2677 A:

No .

# 2678 Q:

What did you do?

# 2679 A:

I took some out and used some, and the rest I left in those bags.

# 2680 Q:

How many golf balls did you take out?

# 2681 A:

Four or five, six, that I took with me; three, four, five that I hit away.

# 2682 Q:

You hit away right there?

# 2683 A:

Yeah.

# 2684 Q:

At Rockingham?

# 2685 A:

Yes.

# 2686 Q:

And when you hit those balls away, did you retrieve them and bring them with you?

# 2687 A:

No.

# 2688 Q:

You already had golf balls in your golf bag. Correct?

# 2689 A:

I may have. I had no new golf balls. I had no new balls, so I may have had one or two used balls, but not many at all.

# 2690 Q:

And these balls you took from the Bentley trunk were all new?

# 2691 A:

No.

# 2692 Q:

They were used?

# 2693 A:

Yes.

# 2694 Q:

And what was the brand?

# 2695 A:

Maxfli lOOs.

# 2696 Q:

All of them were?

# 2697 A:

The ones that I took.

# 2698 Q:

Were you specifically looking for Maxfli 100s?

# 2699 A:

Specifically, yes.

# 2700 Q:

And you had other types of balls in there?

# 2701 A:

Yes.

# 2702 Q:

So when you were searching your trunk, you looked for the Maxfli 100s in the various bags of balls you had there, took out four or five or six and put them in the bluish-gray bag. Correct?

# 2703 A:

Yes.

# 2704 Q:

And then hit three, four or five others. Right?

# 2705 A:

Yes.

# 2706 Q:

And you took the windbreaker and put that in the bag, too?

# 2707 A:

Yes.

# 2708 Q:

And did the bag have a zipper?

# 2709 A:

I don't--I'm not sure. Probably.

# 2710 Q:

Did you take anything else out of the trunk in addition to what you've just described?

# 2711 A:

Yes.

# 2712 Q:

What was that?

# 2713 A:

Pitching wedge.

# 2714 Q:

What was the make?

# 2715 A:

Callaway.

# 2716 Q:

Was it a new pitching wedge?

# 2717 A:

No.

# 2718 Q:

An old one?

# 2719 A:

Yes.

# 2720 Q:

Did you have any other clubs in the trunk?

# 2721 A:

Yes.

# 2722 Q:

How many?

# 2723 A:

I don't know.

# 2724 Q:

A whole set?

# 2725 A:

At least.

# 2726 Q:

Two sets?

# 2727 A:

I don't know.

# 2728 Q:

You specifically looked for pitching wedge?

# 2729 A:

No. I was looking for a sand wedge.

# 2730 Q:

Did you find one?

# 2731 A:

No.

# 2732 Q:

How many pitching wedges were there?

# 2733 A:

I don't know.

# 2734 Q:

Why did you pick this one?

# 2735 A:

Because it's the closest thing to a sand wedge.

# 2736 Q:

Did you take anything else out?

# 2737 A:

No.

# 2738 Q:

And then you closed the trunk?

# 2739 A:

No.

# 2740 Q:

What did you do?

# 2741 A:

Hit some balls away.

# 2742 Q:

While the trunk was open?

# 2743 A:

Yes.

# 2744 Q:

Why did you leave the trunk open? Let me ask you this: What club did you use to hit the balls with?

# 2745 A:

Pitching wedge.

# 2746 Q:

The one you took out?

# 2747 A:

Yes.

# 2748 Q:

Why did you leave the trunk open while you did that?

# 2749 A:

I don't know.

# 2750 Q:

But you specifically recall it was open?

# 2751 A:

Yeah.

# 2752 Q:

After you hit the balls, did you then close the trunk?

# 2753 A:

Yes.

# 2754 Q:

Did go into it again?

# 2755 A:

What do you mean?

# 2756 Q:

To do anything, to get any more balls out, to put something back.

# 2757 A:

Yes.

# 2758 Q:

What did you do?

# 2759 A:

Put the pitching wedge back.

# 2760 Q:

Did you take it with you?

# 2761 A:

No.

# 2762 Q:

Did the golf clubs that you did take with you include a sand wedge?

# 2763 A:

To Chicago?

# 2764 Q:

Yes.

# 2765 A:

Yes.

# 2766 Q:

Did you ever locate a different sand wedge to take with you?

# 2767 A:

No.

# 2768 Q:

So you ended up going with the sand wedge in the set. Right?

# 2769 A:

Yes.

# 2770 Q:

Was that a new set of clubs?

# 2771 A:

Yes.

# 2772 Q:

What was the make?

# 2773 A:

Callaway.

# 2774 Q:

Had you ever used them before?

# 2775 A:

Yes.

# 2776 Q:

When did you get the clubs?

# 2777 A:

Sometime in May.

# 2778 Q:

May of what year?

# 2779 A:

'95--'4.

# 2780 Q:

How did you get them?

# 2781 MR. BAKER:

What do you mean, how did he get them?

# 2782

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2783 Q:

Did you buy them, or were they given to you?

# 2784 A:

They were given to me.

# 2785 Q:

Who gave them to you?

# 2786 A:

Callaway.

# 2787 Q:

The company?

# 2788 A:

Yes.

# 2789 Q:

What representative?

# 2790 MR. BAKER:

Don't answer that. This is irrelevant.

# 2791 MR. PETROCELLI:

It's not irrelevant.

# 2792 MR. BAKER:

Tell me what relevance it is what representative gave him Callaway golf clubs.

# 2793 MR. PETROCELLI:

We are going to go ask him if it's true.

# 2794 Q:

Who gave it to you?

# 2795 MR. BAKER:

Don't answer it.

# 2796 O.J. SIMPSON:

Callaway. I told you.

# 2797

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2798 Q:

No. What person at Callaway? Eli Callaway himself?

# 2799 MR. BAKER:

Don't answer the question.

# 2800

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2801 Q:

Have you ever met Mr. Eli Callaway?

# 2802 MR. BAKER:

Don't answer that. That's irrelevant.

# 2803 MR. PETROCELLI:

What are the objections, just for the record?

# 2804 MR. BAKER:

It's irrelevant. It's irrelevant and immaterial to any issue in this case.

# 2805 MR. PETROCELLI:

You are mistaken, but we will proceed.

# 2806 Q:

From what location in your Rockingham property did you hit those golf balls?

# 2807 A:

My front yard.

# 2808 Q:

On the grass?

# 2809 A:

Yes.

# 2810 Q:

Did you tee them up?

# 2811 A:

No.

# 2812 Q:

You just put them on the grass?

# 2813 A:

Just dropped them on the grass.

# 2814 Q:

Did you take full swings?

# 2815 A:

Once or twice I did, yes.

# 2816 Q:

And were you hitting in the direction of Rockingham, Ashford or someplace else?

# 2817 A:

A couple in the direction of--in the direction of Rockingham but not to Rockingham, and a couple in the direction of Ashford.

# 2818 Q:

Which ones did you take the full swing, which direction?

# 2819 A:

Ashford.

# 2820 Q:

Is there a clearing where you can hit the ball far without hitting anything?

# 2821 A:

Not really.

# 2822 Q:

Did it hit anything?

# 2823 A:

No.

# 2824 Q:

In other words, when you took the full swing and hit those balls with your pitching wedge, did you hear any sound when the ball landed?

# 2825 A:

No.

# 2826 Q:

Okay. How far do you hit a full pitching wedge?

# 2827 A:

It depends.

# 2828 Q:

How far--

# 2829 A:

Full swing, you mean?

# 2830 Q:

Full swing, yeah.

# 2831 A:

It depends. If I'm trying to hit a full-swing pitching wedge, anywhere from 120 to 130 yards. If I'm trying to make it into a sand wedge, a lot less.

# 2832 Q:

Is that what you were trying to do?

# 2833 A:

Yes.

# 2834 Q:

So by taking less than a full swing?

# 2835 A:

No. By changing your grip and the head of the club.

# 2836 Q:

Is that what you did when you took those full cuts?

# 2837 A:

Yes.

# 2838 Q:

You imitated a sand wedge swing, in other words?

# 2839 A:

Yeah. I was trying to get it up, the ball up.

# 2840 Q:

Did you take a divot in your grass?

# 2841 A:

I don't know.

# 2842 Q:

Did the club dig up any grass or dirt?

# 2843 A:

I just don't recall if I took a divot. I don't normally take divots, but I don't recall. I'm sure there was, but --some grass taken up, but...

# 2844 Q:

You hit two or three balls in that direction?

# 2845 A:

Yeah. I mean, just a couple. I chipped a couple real--five or six yards, brought them back, then I hit a couple into the sand and a couple-you know, when I say "a couple," two or three one way and then whatever was left the other way.

# 2846 Q:

Now, you said you first chipped a couple of balls five or six yards away. Right?

# 2847 A:

Yeah.

# 2848 Q:

Where did they land? In the yard?

# 2849 A:

Which ones?

# 2850 Q:

The ones you chipped five or six yards away.

# 2851 A:

Yeah, right on the grass.

# 2852 Q:

On the grass.

# 2853 A:

Yeah.

# 2854 Q:

Then did you hit those balls into the sand?

# 2855 A:

Yeah.

# 2856 Q:

What sand are you referring to?

# 2857 A:

My playground.

# 2858 Q:

Where the kids play? A: Uh-huh. I skulled one of them and it hit the equipment, I don't know where it went.

# 2859 Q:

Made a loud sound?

# 2860 A:

Yeah.

# 2861 Q:

It bounced someplace, and you didn't retrieve it?

# 2862 A:

True.

# 2863 Q:

Do you know if it stayed on the property?

# 2864 A:

I don't know that one. I don't know.

# 2865 Q:

You skulled it--

# 2866 A:

Sculled it.

# 2867 Q:

--meaning you made more solid contact with the ball than you intended. Right?

# 2868 A:

Yes.

# 2869 Q:

And the other balls landed in the sand?

# 2870 A:

I believe so, in or around there. Within the walls of the property, I'm pretty sure. They could have hit into the ivy there, but this should have been inside of the property.

# 2871 Q:

Did you then take some cuts in the sand?

# 2872 A:

Oh, no. No.

# 2873 Q:

As though you were in a sand trap.

# 2874 A:

No. No. I just left them there.

# 2875 Q:

You left the balls in the sand trap --in the sand?

# 2876 A:

Wherever they went, I--

# 2877 Q:

Did they land in the sand?

# 2878 A:

I don't know. One of them should have, at least, but I really don't know.

# 2879 Q:

Wherever they landed, you didn't retrieve them.

# 2880 A:

Correct.

# 2881 Q:

And then you said you took some fuller swings and hit the remaining balls?

# 2882 A:

Yeah, one or two. I don't really recall. But one or two I tried to hit over my tree into the yard across Ashford.

# 2883 Q:

As though you were taking a sand --a shot with a sand wedge. Right?

# 2884 A:

For the most part, yeah.

# 2885 Q:

And how far did that ball travel?

# 2886 A:

I don't know.

# 2887 Q:

Do you have any estimation?

# 2888 A:

No.

# 2889 Q:

Under a hundred yards?

# 2890 A:

I would think so, yes.

# 2891 Q:

Between 50 and 70?

# 2892 A:

40 and 70, I would say.

# 2893 Q:

Between 40 and 70.

# 2894 A:

I hope so.

# 2895 Q:

And the other ball, not that one that you tried to hit over the tree, where did you hit that one when you were taking a full swing?

# 2896 MR. BAKER:

I don't know. I thought that's what you were just talking about.

# 2897 MR. PETROCELLI:

He said he hit one ball high 40 to 70 yards.

# 2898 Q:

Right?

# 2899 A:

Both of them about the same, but as I said, one of them may have gotten through and one of them may not have. I don't recall.

# 2900 Q:

Gotten through where?

# 2901 A:

One of my big trees that are on my property.

# 2902 Q:

I see. If it did not get through the big tree, would it have landed somewhere in your property?

# 2903 A:

It could have gone through, but it didn't clear the big tree. I do this all the time, so it's hard to recall if that moment that was the exact one, but I do know I hit something over to Mrs. Nebeker's, because it's my practice to always do that.

# 2904 Q:

Over to Mrs. what?

# 2905 A:

Nebeker's yard.

# 2906 Q:

How do you spell that name?

# 2907 A:

I don't know.

# 2908 Q:

Could you say it a little more slowly?

# 2909 A:

Nebeker.

# 2910 Q:

Has Mrs. Nebeker ever talked to you about your hitting golf balls there?

# 2911 A:

No.

# 2912 Q:

Have you ever spoken to her about the fact that you've done that?

# 2913 A:

She's seen me actually on her-in her yard hitting balls many, many times.

# 2914 Q:

And she has never said anything to you about it?

# 2915 A:

She likes to talk to me, but she's no longer living, but she would sit in her front door.

# 2916 Q:

When did she die?

# 2917 A:

I think early '94.

# 2918 Q:

And who was living at that property when you hit the golf balls in that direction?

# 2919 A:

I have no idea.

# 2920 Q:

Was the house vacant?

# 2921 A:

I don't know.

# 2922 Q:

Did you ever hit her with a golf ball?

# 2923 MR. BAKER:

You don't have to answer that.

You couldn't resist. Is that the reason that she passed--

# 2924 O.J. SIMPSON:

No, that's not the reason.

# 2925 MR. PETROCELLI:

That is where he was going with it, but I didn't even have the nerve to ask that.

# 2926 Q:

Did you take any other shots of a greater distance than chipping--

# 2927 A:

No.

# 2928 Q:

--other than the two over the big tree?

# 2929 A:

No. No. The one or two, as I said, but no.

# 2930 Q:

What time was it when you did that?

# 2931 A:

I believe around or a little after 10:00 o'clock.

# 2932 Q:

What fixes that time in your mind?

# 2933 A:

Nothing in particular, except I knew I was back from having a burger, and then I just know when I got upstairs --it wasn't but 15 or 20 after 10:00 by the time I got upstairs, so I knew it had to--and other than turning lights out in my house, I can't imagine--I don't recall doing anything else before I got upstairs.

# 2934 Q:

Was there any light on your property where you hit the golf balls?

# 2935 A:

Yeah.

# 2936 Q:

And what was illuminating that area?

# 2937 A:

It's not that it was illuminating the area, but it was illuminating--there is a light in a tree that's right above where I was hitting, and my garage was open.

# 2938 Q:

When you hit the balls on the grass, it was near the big tree?

# 2939 A:

Well, yeah.

# 2940 Q:

And -

# 2941 MR. BAKER:

"Near" is all relative.

# 2942 MR. PETROCELLI:

Excuse me?

# 2943 MR. BAKER:

"Near" is all relative.

# 2944

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2945 Q:

How many yards were you from the big tree?

# 2946 A:

From the base of the big tree?

# 2947 Q:

Yes.

# 2948 A:

Seven, eight, ten maybe.

# 2949 Q:

Okay.

# 2950 A:

Whatever the width of my driveway is. It's on the other side of my driveway, and whatever the width of the driveway.

# 2951 Q:

Right on the other side of the driveway?

# 2952 A:

Yeah. But the tree hangs over, you know, so the light would be hanging over a little more than the base of the tree.

# 2953 Q:

Was it light out where you were hitting?

# 2954 A:

The way it is always in my front yard. I wouldn't call it light, but I can hit a couple of balls away.

# 2955 Q:

Now, this light, is this actually in the tree, the light?

# 2956 A:

Yes.

# 2957 Q:

How does the light get turned on?

# 2958 A:

It's on automatic.

# 2959 Q:

Was there any other light illuminating that area where you were hitting the golf balls?

# 2960 A:

Maybe coming from my garage a little bit. When you say "illuminating" an area, it wasn't like shining on the area, but I could see what I was doing.

# 2961 Q:

Okay. Was there any other light besides that tree light that would have enabled you to see what you were doing?

# 2962 MR. BAKER:

And the garage light coming from his garage?

# 2963

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2964 Q:

Now, the garage light--

# 2965 A:

Yeah, the garage light. And I don't know. I think I have a little walkway light that was in front of me, but I don't think it does much illuminating.

# 2966 Q:

Was the garage door open or closed?

# 2967 A:

Open.

# 2968 Q:

The garage door was open.

# 2969 A:

Yeah.

# 2970 Q:

And the garage light was on in it?

# 2971 A:

Yes.

# 2972 Q:

When that garage light is on, it passes some light out of the garage and near this area--

# 2973 A:

Yeah.

# 2974 Q:

where you were hitting the golf balls?

# 2975 A:

It's not a spotlight or anything, but yes.

# 2976 Q:

Were there any other lights on outside the property or from inside the house that would cast light onto the area where the golf balls were?

# 2977 MR. BAKER:

By that you are excluding streetlights?

# 2978 MR. PETROCELLI:

Any lights.

# 2979 MR. BAKER:

Because you said "inside the house" and--

# 2980 MR. PETROCELLI:

I guess I was excluding streetlights.

# 2981 O.J. SIMPSON:

I don't know. The coach lights may have been on in the front of my door.

# 2982

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2983 Q:

What are coach lights?

# 2984 A:

Two lights that hang on the outside of the front door at my entryway there.

# 2985 Q:

Were they on?

# 2986 A:

I don't recall.

# 2987 Q:

Do they go on automatically?

# 2988 A:

No.

# 2989 Q:

You have to turn them on?

# 2990 A:

Uh-huh.

# 2991 Q:

You have to answer audibly.

# 2992 A:

Yes.

# 2993 Q:

Where is the light switch?

# 2994 A:

Right inside of my front door.

# 2995 Q:

Inside the house.

# 2996 A:

Yes.

# 2997 Q:

And how do you turn the garage light on that was on? Inside the garage?

# 2998 A:

No. One portion comes on automatically; and the other portion, as you enter the garage, you have to turn --the back portion you have to turn on, and then the front portion comes on as the garage door comes up.

# 2999 Q:

One of those Genie--

# 3000 A:

Yeah.

# 3001 Q:

--electric garage doors?

# 3002 A:

Yeah.

# 3003 Q:

When the garage door opens auto---with a remote control or a clicker on the wall?

# 3004 A:

Yeah.

# 3005 Q:

There is a light on, and that stays on at all times?

# 3006 A:

What do you mean?

# 3007 Q:

In other words, there is a light on in the mechanism, the garage door mechanism. Correct?

# 3008 A:

Uh-huh.

# 3009 Q:

You have to answer audibly.

# 3010 A:

Yes.

# 3011 Q:

And when you open the garage door, this light goes on. Correct?

# 3012 A:

Yes.

# 3013 Q:

Does that light stay on as long as the garage door is open?

# 3014 A:

I don't know.

# 3015 Q:

Or does the light go off after a few minutes?

# 3016 A:

I don't know.

# 3017 Q:

Do you have the same garage door opener now?

# 3018 A:

Yes. a Do you have the same garage door--

# 3019 A:

Yes.

# 3020 Q:

--and same equipment?

# 3021 A:

Yes.

# 3022 Q:

The other light, in the back of the garage, you have to manually turn on. Correct?

# 3023 A:

Yes.

# 3024 Q:

Was that light on?

# 3025 A:

Yes.

# 3026 Q:

When was the last time before June 12th that you hit golf balls at around 10:00 o'clock at night from your property at Rockingham?

# 3027 A:

I spent most of April in Puerto Rico, so probably--I don't know if it would be 10:00 o'clock, but certainly at night many times.

# 3028 Q:

When was the last time of the many times?

# 3029 A:

I have no--I don't recall.

# 3030 Q:

The last time before June 12th.

# 3031 A:

I don't recall.

# 3032 Q:

You can't give me a single day?

# 3033 A:

I can't recall.

# 3034 Q:

Was it the day--night before?

# 3035 A:

No.

# 3036 Q:

Was it in June of 1994?

# 3037 A:

It may have been in June.

# 3038 Q:

What night?

# 3039 A:

I don't know.

# 3040 Q:

You want to look at your calendar? Would that help you?

# 3041 A:

No.

# 3042 Q:

Maybe by refreshing your recollection as to whether you were in town or not?

# 3043 A:

I don't get what you're saying.

# 3044 Q:

Well, take a look at 8-A and look at June and tell me what evening before June 12 you last hit golf balls at Rockingham.

# 3045 A:

I told you I may have. It's something I do often. So I don't have any specific memory, but I know I would have because it's something that I do often. I don't know about 10:00 p.m. Certainly I drop balls and hit them all the time. I actually had a net that I put up on my garage and hit off a mat into my garage. As late as midnight I've done that. So--

# 3046 Q:

Is the net still there?

# 3047 A:

I'm sure it's hanging around somewhere, because I've bought new nets. I've bought two new nets, I know, in the last--since I'd gotten back home that time, I had bought two new nets to put in various places on my property.

# 3048 Q:

What nets were up at the property on June 12?

# 3049 A:

They weren't up. It was something you would have to hang.

# 3050 Q:

You had nets, but they were not hanging on June 12. Is that what you're saying?

# 3051 A:

Yes.

# 3052 Q:

Where were the nets?

# 3053 A:

I don't know. Probably around my garage somewhere.

# 3054 Q:

When was the last time you hung those nets to use them before June 12?

# 3055 A:

Sometime in May I may have done it in my backyard.

# 3056 Q:

Do you have a specific recollection of doing it in May?

# 3057 A:

No. But since it's something that I've done so much over the last 10 years, I'm sure I must have, you know.

# 3058 Q:

When you hit into the net, you're not hitting the balls off the property. Right? You're n hitting them into the net. Correct?

# 3059 A:

Yeah, but normally I would take one or two because I want to do something, hit them somewhere. yeah.

# 3060 Q:

Do you have a specific recollection in June, prior to June 12, of hitting golf balls at night?

# 3061 A:

Not in June. Not in June, I don't, no.

# 3062 Q:

Do you have a specific recollection of hitting golf balls at night from your property in May of 1994?

# 3063 A:

Specific, no, but I can -I'm pretty sure I did, but I don't have any specific recollection, no.

# 3064 Q:

And do you have a specific recollection of hitting golf balls at night from your property in April of 1994?

# 3065 A:

I was never in L A. in April.

# 3066 Q:

In March of 1994?

# 3067 A:

When you say "specific," I don't know the specific day, but I know I did in March. I know for sure I did on numerous occasions.

# 3068 Q:

Did you ever do so with another person?

# 3069 A:

No.

# 3070 Q:

Can you identify a single person--

# 3071 A:

Well, no, that's wrong. Yes.

# 3072 Q:

Okay. Who?

# 3073 A:

Justin.

# 3074 Q:

Your--

# 3075 A:

My son.

# 3076 Q:

--younger boy?

# 3077 A:

Yes.

# 3078 Q:

He was with you on one occasion when you were hitting golf balls at night at your property?

# 3079 A:

He's been with me on numerous occasions when I've done that, yes.

# 3080 Q:

When was the last time?

# 3081 A:

I don't recall--last time?

# 3082 Q:

Withdrawn. When was the last time before June 12, 1994 that Justin was with you at night at Rockingham hitting golf balls?

# 3083 A:

I don't know.

# 3084 Q:

And do you have a specific recollection that he was with you in June hitting golf balls at night?

# 3085 A:

I told you I didn't think I hit any balls other than that night.

# 3086 Q:

So maybe going back to March?

# 3087 A:

Possibly to March, yes. Possibly March. Possibly February, possibly, yes.

# 3088 Q:

Did Justin also hit golf balls, too?

# 3089 A:

Yes.

# 3090 Q:

Off the property like you were doing?

# 3091 A:

No. He's just gotten to the point where he can hit it on the property.

# 3092 Q:

Were these situations where you were just hitting into the net or actually taking a couple and hitting them out?

# 3093 A:

Well, yeah. Normally--

# 3094 MR. BAKER:

And you are talking about instances with--

# 3095 MR. PETROCELLI:

With Justin.

# 3096 MR. BAKER:

Thank you.

# 3097 O.J. SIMPSON:

If he's hitting, because only one of us could hit into the net, I might drop a ball or two and chip it over the wall or chip it somewhere, yeah.

# 3098

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 3099 Q:

And he saw you do that?

# 3100 A:

I'm sure he did, yes.

# 3101 Q:

Besides Justin, is there any other person who in 1994 before June 12 saw you hit golf balls from your property at night?

# 3102 A:

What do you mean, from my property?

# 3103 Q:

Hitting golf balls on your property like you said you were doing on June 12.

# 3104 A:

I would imagine a housekeeper must have seen me. Nicole obviously seen me many times. I don't know. Whoever was around. Probably my housekeeper. Probably Michelle more than Gigi, but possibly Gigi.

# 3105 Q:

Was there any other person besides Justin who ever participated in that with you?

# 3106 A:

What do you mean?

# 3107 Q:

Hitting golf balls at night at your property in the year 1994.

# 3108 A:

Not that I recall, no.

# 3109 Q:

Now, have you ever seen--Withdrawn. Do you know whether any of those golf balls that you said you were chipping around the yard were ever retrieved by anybody?

# 3110 A:

I believe so, yes.

# 3111 Q:

Who retrieved them?

# 3112 A:

I believe LAPD.

# 3113 Q:

How do you know that?

# 3114 A:

Because I have a--some memory that I read a report that they did.

# 3115 Q:

And have you ever seen those golf balls?

# 3116 A:

No.

# 3117 Q:

Did LAPD ever bring them into the courtroom, or did anybody else ever bring them into the courtroom?

# 3118 A:

Not that I know of.

# 3119 Q:

Did you ever say to somebody, "Hey, get those golf balls for me; bring them to court"?

# 3120 A:

For what?

# 3121 Q:

Did you ever request that they be brought to court?

# 3122 A:

No.

# 3123 Q:

And what is this document where you read at the golf balls were retrieved from your property?

# 3124 A:

In some form of discovery.

# 3125 Q:

Do you know whether the golf balls that you read in this report that were retrieved from your property were the ones that you hit on the evening of June 12 as opposed to some prior occasion?

# 3126 A:

No.

# 3127 Q:

Did you hit Maxfli 100s on June 12 on your property?

# 3128 A:

One might have been. They might have been. It was just the scuffed balls that I hit away. I just looking for scuffs more than anything.

# 3129 Q:

When you were going into your golf bag, you said you picked out Maxfli 100s.

# 3130 A:

Yes.

# 3131 Q:

I am talking about the bag of balls in the Bentley trunk.

# 3132 A:

Uh-huh.

# 3133 Q:

You have to answer audibly.

# 3134 A:

Yes.

# 3135 Q:

So I take it all these balls, then, were Maxfli 100s.

# 3136 A:

No.

# 3137 Q:

You also picked out other balls as well?

# 3138 A:

I probably hit away some other balls, yes.

# 3139 Q:

Were you picking out balls to hit in the yard that were not Maxfli 100s?

# 3140 A:

I was picking balls out to take with me were Maxfli 100s. Whatever I grabbed to hit away were scuffed balls, and I just hit them away.

# 3141 Q:

So you have no way then, of knowing whether these balls that you read about in the LAPD report are the actual balls you hit that night. Correct?

# 3142 A:

That's correct.

# 3143 Q:

Did you ever ask anybody to go look for those balls that you hit that evening on the property?

# 3144 A:

No.

# 3145 Q:

Now, the balls that you hit--Withdrawn. The club you used to hit those balls was the pitching wedge Correct?

# 3146 A:

That's correct.

# 3147 Q:

And was that wedge seized by the LAPD?

# 3148 A:

I think at some point, yes

# 3149 Q:

And did you get it back yet?

# 3150 A:

I believe so, yes.

# 3151 Q:

When did you get that wedge back?

# 3152 A:

I think when I was in jail.

# 3153 Q:

They returned it to whom?

# 3154 A:

To Rockingham, I assume.

# 3155 Q:

All the clubs were returned?

# 3156 A:

I never really checked to see, but I'm assuming, of that group of clubs, I'm assuming they were, yes.

# 3157 Q:

Where is this pitching wedge now?

# 3158 A:

I hope in my garage.

# 3159 Q:

Have you used it since that evening when you hit golf balls on June 12, 1994?

# 3160 A:

I might have.

# 3161 Q:

Do you remember using it?

# 3162 A:

I might have. I don't know. We hit a lot of balls in the front yard. So, I mean, I grab a club; some of my security; I grab a club; even some of my lawyers have grabbed a club. So, you know...

# 3163 Q:

You are saying since you were--

# 3164 A:

Even some of my lawyers have taken some clubs.

# 3165 MR. BAKER:

We don't need to put this on the record.

# 3166 MR. PETROCELLI:

Let the record reflect that the witness looked towards the general direction of Mr. Baker.

# 3167 Q:

Have you hit any golf balls at night from the Rocking---at your Rockingham property since you were released from jail?

# 3168 A:

Yes.

# 3169 Q:

And have you done so with other persons?

# 3170 A:

Yes.

# 3171 Q:

Who?

# 3172 A:

Security. And I don't know if you guys were around. Whoever was around.

# 3173 Q:

How many times did you do that?

# 3174 A:

How many times I've done it since I've been back?

# 3175 Q:

Since you got out of jail, at night at Rockingham, 10:00 o'clock.

# 3176 A:

Oh, Jesus, 10:00 o'clock--

# 3177 Q:

9:00,10:00 o'clock or later.

# 3178 A:

After dark.

# 3179 Q:

After dark.

# 3180 A:

After dark, three or four times.

# 3181 Q:

And every time was with someone else?

# 3182 A:

Well, every time somebody was there. I mean, I have security there that's full time now. A few times they were there.

# 3183 Q:

And they saw you do it?

# 3184 A:

Oh, yeah.

# 3185 Q:

Who were the security personnel?

# 3186 A:

I can't give you any last names, but Thomas, Jeff, Dave.

# 3187 Q:

Who were the lawyers?

# 3188 A:

Phil Baker, Bob Baker. Bob Blasier, I'm not sure.

# 3189 Q:

Did the lawyers also swing the clubs?

# 3190 A:

Yes.

# 3191 Q:

And were you--

# 3192 A:

Not all the time. You're talking on at least one occasion or something.

# 3193 Q:

Were any of these incidents when you hit golf balls from Rockingham, after you got out of jail, for the purpose of demonstrating what you were doing on the evening of June 12?

# 3194 MR. BAKER:

Well, you can talk about--don't answer that question, but you can talk about anything other than any demonstrations that your lawyers had you do.

# 3195 O.J. SIMPSON:

After dark, no.

# 3196

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 3197 Q:

But before dark, yes?

# 3198 MR. BAKER:

Well, don't answer that question.

# 3199

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 3200 Q:

You want to answer that?

# 3201 MR. BAKER:

No, he not going to answer that

# 3202 MR. PETROCELLI:

I think what he does, Mr. Baker, is not a communication--demonstrations are not protected, but I am not going to convince you, I can see.

# 3203 MR. BAKER:

No, you're not.

# 3204 MR. PETROCELLI:

We will just have to take it to the judge.

# 3205 MR. BAKER:

Fair enough.

# 3206 MR. PETROCELLI:

Okay.

# 3207 Q:

I would like to show you some photographs, which I would like to mark--I guess we will start with Exhibit 22.

# 3208 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit 22 was marked for identification by the reporter and is attached hereto.)

# 3209 MR. PETROCELLI:

I will have to make copies.

# 3210 Q:

I would like to show you what I will mark as Exhibit 22, a photograph of--a photograph.

Hold on for a second, Mr. Simpson.

# 3211 (Pause in the proceedings.)

# 3212

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 3213 Q:

Mr. Simpson, now that the lawyers have seen this, let me show you Exhibit 22. What is that a picture of?

# 3214 A:

A golf bag.

# 3215 Q:

Is that the golf bag that you took to Chicago on June 12?

# 3216 A:

It appears to be, yes.

# 3217 Q:

And does this contain the clubs that you had recently received from Callaway about a month before?

# 3218 A:

I really can't tell, but they--I see one or two of the clubs look like Callaway Big Bertha irons, and that would be the type of irons that I had.

# 3219 Q:

This was a new set of irons you had gotten?

# 3220 A:

Yes.

# 3221 Q:

Were the woods new also?

# 3222 A:

No.

# 3223 Q:

And the putter?

# 3224 A:

No.

# 3225 Q:

When you took this--it was a Swiss Army golf bag. Correct?

# 3226 A:

Yes.

# 3227 Q:

Is that made by the Forschner Company?

# 3228 A:

I doubt it.

# 3229 Q:

Have anything to do with Forschner?

# 3230 A:

Well, Swiss Army is.

# 3231 Q:

Is that something that is placed on the bag?

# 3232 A:

Yes, I believe so.

# 3233 Q:

Oh, I see. When you went to Chicago, you put this bag in what you called a cover bag. Correct?

# 3234 A:

That's correct.

# 3235 Q:

Was this the -Had you used these clubs earlier on the day of June 12?

# 3236 A:

Yes.

# 3237 Q:

This exact set of clubs?

# 3238 A:

Well, if that's the clubs. yes

# 3239 Q:

And had you used them the day before, on June 11th?

# 3240 A:

Yes.

# 3241 Q:

And when you used them, you went to play locally at Riviera correct?

# 3242 A:

That's correct.

# 3243 Q:

Both on June 11 and June 12 Right?

# 3244 A:

That's correct.

# 3245 Q:

When you used them on those occasions, you did not have a black --excuse me--you didn't have a cover bag. Correct?

# 3246 A:

Didn't have a travel bag, no.

# 3247 Q:

Where was your cover bag?

# 3248 A:

In the entry of my house.

# 3249 Q:

Kept there on June 11 and June 12?

# 3250 A:

Correct.

# 3251 Q:

What car did you use to drive to the golf course on June 11?

# 3252 A:

I don't know.

# 3253 Q:

What are the choices?

# 3254 A:

Bentley or Bronco.

# 3255 Q:

You don't remember which one you used?

# 3256 A:

No.

# 3257 Q:

What did you use on June 12?

# 3258 A:

Bronco.

# 3259 Q:

Where were you--Strike that. Where did you put this golf bag with all the clubs in it into the cover bag?

# 3260 MR. BAKER:

The location where he was when he inserted it?

# 3261 MR. PETROCELLI:

Correct.

# 3262 O.J. SIMPSON:

In front of my house or at the entry portion of my house.

# 3263

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 3264 Q:

You took the golf clubs to the entryway of your house?

# 3265 A:

Yeah, at the entry, and then the cover was still there because I had taken it off Saturday morning there.

# 3266 Q:

The entryway was inside the house. Right?

# 3267 A:

Yes.

# 3268 Q:

On the floor?

# 3269 A:

That--yeah.

# 3270 Q:

In a closet?

# 3271 A:

No.

# 3272 Q:

Just lying there?

# 3273 A:

Yes.

# 3274 Q:

Just on the other side of the front door?

# 3275 A:

Yes.

# 3276 Q:

If you opened the front door, would it hit the golf cover bag?

# 3277 A:

If it spread out, maybe, but I don't think it was then. It was to the-facing the front door, to the left.

# 3278 Q:

Against the wall?

# 3279 A:

Yeah.

# 3280 Q:

Okay. And you took your golf clubs inside the house and put the cover bag on?

# 3281 A:

I don't think so. I think I brought the cover bag out.

# 3282 Q:

Right outside the front door?

# 3283 A:

Yes.

# 3284 Q:

In the entry--What do you call that area right outside the front door?

# 3285 A:

My entry. Front--not the foyer, but the entry.

# 3286 Q:

You put the cover bag on at that time. Right? Or at that location, I should say.

# 3287 A:

Yes.

# 3288 Q:

What time was that?

# 3289 A:

That was between--that was before I went to McDonald's, so that would have been before 9:00 o'clock.

# 3290 Q:

When you put the cover bag over the golf clubs, did the cover bag also have another pair of shoes in it?

# 3291 A:

It may have. Or the golf bag may have had a pair of shoes in it.

# 3292 Q:

This golf bag had a pair of shoes in it?

# 3293 A:

It could have. I'm not sure right now. I don't recall.

# 3294 Q:

Did you put another pair of shoes in the cover bag?

# 3295 A:

Another pair of shoes ended up in the cover bag. I didn't specifically put them in the cover bag, but at some point obviously I had, but there was definitely a pair of shoes in the outer cover bag, yes.

# 3296 Q:

When did you put those shoes in he outer cover bag?

# 3297 A:

I don't know.

# 3298 Q:

Did you do it on the evening of June 12?

# 3299 A:

I went to make sure that they were in there on the evening of June 12, and they were.

# 3300 Q:

When you took the cover bag off two or three days before, were the shoes in the cover bag from your prior trip?

# 3301 A:

They could have been, because I did take them with me on the prior trip.

# 3302 Q:

You don't remember one way or the other?

# 3303 A:

No.

# 3304 Q:

And did this bag have a place where you could put the shoes and the shoe bag?

# 3305 A:

If I wanted to, yes.

# 3306 Q:

And where was that? Can you point to it?

# 3307 A:

This zipper that comes down, it could have gone in right there (Indicating).

# 3308 Q:

Under where it says "Swiss Army"?

# 3309 A:

Yes.

# 3310 Q:

Now, when you put the golf bag into the cover bag shortly before you went to McDonald's--is that what you said?

# 3311 A:

Yes.

# 3312 Q:

Around 9:00 p.m.?

# 3313 A:

Well, before I went, yes.

# 3314 Q:

Shortly before you went? A: I don't know about shortly, but sometime before I went, yes.

# 3315 Q:

What time was it?

# 3316 A:

I don't know. It was sometime between 7:00 and 9:00.

# 3317 Q:

You can't fix it any closer than that?

# 3318 A:

Cannot fix it any closer than that.

# 3319 Q:

So any time between 7:00 and 9:00 o'clock is when you put the golf bag into the cover bag.

# 3320 A:

That's correct.

# 3321 Q:

And when you did that, what did you do with the cover bag that had the golf clubs in it?

# 3322 A:

Put them on my bench.

# 3323 Q:

Outside the front door?

# 3324 A:

That's correct.

# 3325 Q:

And it stayed there?

# 3326 A:

Yes. For a while.

# 3327 Q:

For a while.

# 3328 A:

Yeah. Till we took them off the bench.

# 3329 Q:

To go into the limousine.

# 3330 A:

No. A little bit before I went into the limousine.

# 3331 Q:

But once you closed up that cover bag between 7:00 and 9:00 o'clock, you never opened it again. Correct?

# 3332 A:

Incorrect.

# 3333 Q:

Why did you open it?

# 3334 A:

I wanted to make sure I had my black shoes in there.

# 3335 Q:

Golf shoes?

# 3336 A:

Yes.

# 3337 Q:

And were they in there?

# 3338 A:

Yes.

# 3339 Q:

And are those the shoes in the coverbag or the shoes in the golfbag?

# 3340 A:

Cover bag.

# 3341 Q:

So you opened it one time, looked in the coverbag, saw the shoes, closed it, and then you did not open it again. Correct?

# 3342 A:

Until when?

# 3343 Q:

Until you got to Chicago.

# 3344 A:

No, that's not correct.

# 3345 Q:

Until you got into the limousine.

# 3346 A:

That's correct.

# 3347 Q:

Okay. Focusing up until the time when you left the Rockingham property in the limousine on June 12, you did not open that cover bag again after you looked and checked for the black shoes. Right?

# 3348 A:

Yes.

# 3349 Q:

And when was it that you looked and checked for the black shoes?

# 3350 A:

Somewhere around 11:00 o'clock or-somewhere around 11:00 o'clock. That's a guess.

# 3351 Q:

That's your best guess?

# 3352 A:

Yeah. Shortly before I left to go-before we drove out of my driveway.

# 3353 Q:

When you looked for the shoes, was the limo already there?

# 3354 A:

Yes.

# 3355 Q:

And it was past the gate?

# 3356 A:

No.

# 3357 Q:

It was still on the other side of the gate?

# 3358 A:

That's right.

# 3359 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit 23 was marked for identification by the reporter and is attached hereto.)

# 3360

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 3361 Q:

Let me show you what has been marked as Exhibit 23.

Mr. Simpson, I am showing you a photograph marked as Exhibit 23. Can you identify what is in that photograph?

# 3362 A:

It appears to be a Swiss Army cover travel bag.

# 3363 Q:

And is that the travel bag that you have been referring to? Excuse me. Is that the bag you've been referring to so far as a "cover bag"?

# 3364 A:

One like this, yes.

# 3365 Q:

Is that the exact one?

# 3366 A:

I don't know.

# 3367 Q:

Does it look like it?

# 3368 A:

Yes.

# 3369 Q:

That's the bag that you just testified about. Correct?

# 3370 A:

Yes.

# 3371 MR. BAKER:

Bag that he just testified about?

# 3372 MR. PETROCELLI:

Cover bag.

# 3373 O.J. SIMPSON:

Yes, I believe so.

# 3374

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 3375 Q:

Now, pointing to this cover bag, where do you open the zipper to look for the shoes? Or where did you open the zipper to look for the shoes?

# 3376 A:

I really can't make it out here. Wherever you open the zipper to put the clubs in is the zipper that I opened to look for the shoes.

# 3377 Q:

There is another compartment in there for the shoes? There is another compartment inside the coverbag--

# 3378 A:

No.

# 3379 Q:

--for the shoes?

# 3380 A:

No.

# 3381 Q:

Just lying loose in there?

# 3382 A:

Yeah, lying loose.

# 3383 Q:

Is that a blue cover bag?

# 3384 A:

No.

# 3385 Q:

What color is it?

# 3386 A:

Black.

# 3387 Q:

And the golf bag is black, too. Right?

# 3388 A:

Yes.

# 3389 Q:

Let me show you the next photograph, which I will mark as Exhibit 24.

# 3390 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit 24 was marked for identification by the reporter and is attached hereto.)

# 3391

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 3392 Q:

Do you recognize what is depicted in that photograph?

# 3393 A:

Yes.

# 3394 Q:

What is that?

# 3395 A:

A Louis Vuitton travel bag--

# 3396 Q:

And that was--Excuse me. I'm sorry.

# 3397 A:

Suitcase.

# 3398 Q:

Is that the Louis Vuitton suitcase that you took to Chicago?

# 3399 A:

One like this. Possibly this could be it.

# 3400 Q:

And that's the--When you went to Chicago, you've already said you didn't have your new suit in there. Right?

# 3401 MR. BAKER:

He didn't say it was new. He said he didn't have a suit in there.

# 3402 MR. PETROCELLI:

You are correct.

# 3403 Q:

You did not have your suit in there.

# 3404 A:

That's correct.

# 3405 Q:

Was it a new suit?

# 3406 A:

All my clothes are relatively new, yes.

# 3407 Q:

What was in this Louis Vuitton bag when you went to Chicago?

# 3408 A:

Couple of golf outfits, maybe a T-shirt or two, some underwear. maybe a pair of shoes--

# 3409 Q:

Dress shoes?

# 3410 A:

Yes, I believe so. I'm not a hundred percent sure if I didn't try to double up the shoes I was wearing as dress shoes.

# 3411 Q:

Anything else?

# 3412 A:

That would be about it.

# 3413 Q:

And everything that you went to Chicago with you came back with in the Louis Vuitton bag except that you also added the suit?

# 3414 A:

That's correct.

# 3415 Q:

And also the garment bag in which the suit was located?

# 3416 A:

That's correct.

# 3417 Q:

Okay. Did you come back with the same clothes that you went to Chicago on?

# 3418 A:

Yes.

# 3419 MR. BAKER:

You mean was he wearing the same clothes?

# 3420 MR. PETROCELLI:

Withdrawn.

# 3421 Q:

Were you wearing the same clothes back to Chicago that--back to Los Angeles that you had worn to Chicago?

# 3422 A:

No.

# 3423 Q:

Wearing different clothes?

# 3424 A:

Yes.

# 3425 Q:

What did you wear to Chicago on the evening of June 12?

# 3426 A:

I believe some jeans, white shirt and jean jacket, and I may have had a windbreaker with me. Not a windbreaker, but a wet jacket.

# 3427 Q:

What were the -Were these stone-washed jeans?

# 3428 A:

Yes.

# 3429 Q:

What was the -who was the manufacturer?

# 3430 A:

I don't know.

# 3431 Q:

Were they Guess? jeans?

# 3432 A:

I don't know.

# 3433 Q:

What kind of jeans do you usually wear?

# 3434 A:

All kinds.

# 3435 Q:

You don't remember?

# 3436 A:

I do remember.

# 3437 Q:

What jeans they were?

# 3438 A:

All kinds of jeans I have in my home.

# 3439 Q:

You don't remember what particular style this was?

# 3440 A:

No. No. No, I don't.

# 3441 Q:

Did you have any socks on?

# 3442 A:

I don't think so.

# 3443 Q:

What kind of shoes did you have on?

# 3444 A:

Some loafers.

# 3445 Q:

What color were they?

# 3446 A:

Black or blue.

# 3447 Q:

What size were they?

# 3448 A:

I don't know.

# 3449 Q:

Which size did you wear in 1994?

# 3450 MR. BAKER:

We've been through the size. You asked that yesterday.

# 3451 MR. PETROCELLI:

No, I never asked that.

# 3452 MR. BAKER:

You never asked the size shoes he has?

# 3453 MR. MEDVENE:

No.

# 3454 MR. BAKER:

It's no big deal. I will let him answer, anyway.

# 3455 MR. PETROCELLI:

Let me rephrase --or reask the question.

# 3456 Q:

In June of 1994 what size shoes did you wear?

# 3457 A:

Depends what shoe I was wearing. I could wear 12s, 11-1/2s, some 13s.

# 3458 Q:

What size shoes--what type of shoes did you wear in size 12?

# 3459 A:

Depends on the shoe make and the shoe.

# 3460 Q:

What size--what type and make of shoes did you own at that time in size 12?

# 3461 A:

Loafers. I would imagine some loafers were 12s, some tie-ups and tennis shoes.

# 3462 Q:

Were most of your shoes that you owned in June of 1994 size 12?

# 3463 A:

I would say so, yes.

# 3464 Q:

And you also said you had some size 11-1/2s?

# 3465 A:

Uh-huh.

# 3466 Q:

You have to answer audibly.

# 3467 A:

Yes.

# 3468 Q:

What shoes did you have of that size in June of 1994?

# 3469 A:

Probably tennis shoes and one or two pairs of loafers.

# 3470 Q:

Are these shoes gifts to you, these 11-1/2s?

# 3471 A:

Not necessarily, no.

# 3472 Q:

Why did you have some 11-1/2s?

# 3473 A:

Because that's what they were.

# 3474 Q:

You tried them on--

# 3475 A:

Yeah.

# 3476 Q:

--and you bought them?

# 3477 A:

Yeah.

# 3478 Q:

And they fit?

# 3479 A:

Yeah.

# 3480 Q:

These particular tennis shoes and one or two loafers.

# 3481 A:

Yeah.

# 3482 Q:

What was the width of your shoe size--

# 3483 A:

I don't know.

# 3484 Q:

--in June of 1994?

# 3485 A:

I don't know.

# 3486 Q:

What is it now?

# 3487 A:

I don't know.

# 3488 Q:

You have no idea?

# 3489 A:

None.

# 3490 Q:

When you go into a shoe store and ask the salesman for shoes, do you give him a width size?

# 3491 A:

No.

# 3492 Q:

You just say, "Give me a size 12"?

# 3493 A:

Yes.

# 3494 Q:

Now, you also have some size 13s?

# 3495 A:

Uh-huh.

# 3496 Q:

Is that what you said?

# 3497 A:

Yes.

# 3498 Q:

What shoes in June of 1994 were size 13s?

# 3499 A:

Some golf shoes.

# 3500 Q:

Did you own a brand-new pair of Nike golf shoes in June of 1994, white?

# 3501 A:

Could very well.

# 3502 Q:

Do you pay for your golf shoes, or are they given to you?

# 3503 A:

Sometimes I pay. Sometimes they're given to me.

# 3504 Q:

Do you remember a pair of white Nike golf shoes that you owned in June--

# 3505 A:

Not particularly.

# 3506 Q:

--in June of 1994?

# 3507 A:

Not particularly, but I'm sure--I like Nike golf shoes, so I'm sure I probably had a pair.

# 3508 Q:

Are all your -Withdrawn. Were all of your--Withdrawn. Were all of your golf shoes In June of 1994 size 13?

# 3509 A:

No.

# 3510 Q:

What were the other sizes?

# 3511 A:

I don't know. I'd have to look at them. Some probably were 12, for sure, and I would have to look at them.

# 3512 Q:

How many pairs of golf shoes did you own in June of 1994?

# 3513 A:

Guess?

# 3514 Q:

Excuse me?

# 3515 A:

Guess?

# 3516 Q:

Guess?

# 3517 A:

You want me to make a Guess?

# 3518 Q:

No. Your best recollection.

# 3519 A:

It would be my best guess.

# 3520 Q:

Well, tell me.

# 3521 A:

10. No. 15.

# 3522 Q:

15?

# 3523 A:

Yes.

# 3524 MR. BAKER:

He didn't ask you that.

# 3525 O.J. SIMPSON:

I'm sorry.

10 to 15.

# 3526

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 3527 Q:

10 to 15 . And where are--where were they maintained or kept in June of 1994?

# 3528 A:

Some in my home; some at my country club; some at my other country club; some at my other home.

# 3529 Q:

What are your two country clubs? What were they then?

# 3530 A:

Riviera--in LA., Riviera--that I was a member of, Riviera, Sherwood, Mountain Gate, even though I didn't keep nothing at Mountain Gate, and then there's courses around the country.

# 3531 MR. BAKER:

Why don't we take 10 minutes.

# 3532 MR. PETROCELLI:

Okay.

# 3533 MR. BREWER:

These are country clubs where you were a member. Is that correct?

# 3534 O.J. SIMPSON:

Yes.

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the end of tape No. 2 of Volume II. The time is approximately 2:39, and we are off the record.

# 3535 (Recess.)

# 3536

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 3537 Q:

We were talking about the clothing that you wore to Chicago, and you said you had the jeans and the loafers, and then we talked a little bit about the shoes.

You said you also were wearing a shirt?

# 3538 A:

Pardon me?

# 3539 Q:

You also were wearing a shirt when you went to Chicago on June 12?

# 3540 A:

Yes.

# 3541 Q:

What kind of shirt?

# 3542 A:

Jean. A jean shirt.

# 3543 Q:

J-e-a-n, jean shirt?

# 3544 A:

Yes.

# 3545 Q:

What was the manufacturer? Do you know?

# 3546 A:

No .

# 3547 Q:

The brand?

# 3548 A:

I don't know.

# 3549 Q:

What color was it?

# 3550 A:

Blue. Stone-washed blue.

# 3551 Q:

Did you have an undershirt?

# 3552 A:

No. I had on a golf shirt, I believe, underneath it.

# 3553 Q:

Underneath the -this blue stone-washed shirt you had a golf shirt?

# 3554 A:

Yeah.

# 3555 Q:

What color was the golf shirt?

# 3556 A:

White. Q: What was the brand, if any?

# 3557 A:

I don't know.

# 3558 Q:

And then you had a jacket on?

# 3559 A:

Actually I used the jean shirt as a jacket, but I had a jacket with me also, yes.

# 3560 Q:

That you carried with you?

# 3561 A:

I can't recall if I put it in the bag or carried it with me, but I had sort of a golf wet jacket with me.

# 3562 Q:

A windbreaker, you said earlier?

# 3563 A:

Yeah. Yeah. It's a golf jacket. Windbreaker's a description. There was another thing that was a windbreaker, Hertz windbreaker.

# 3564 Q:

And what was the color of that jacket?

# 3565 A:

Blue or green.

# 3566 Q:

Did I show you a picture of that jacket earlier today?

# 3567 A:

Could have been.

# 3568 MR. PETROCELLI:

Excuse me, Mr. Baker?

# 3569 MR. BAKER:

Which jacket are we talking about? He's got the windbreaker and Hertz jacket.

# 3570 MR. PETROCELLI:

I am going to get it out right now.

# 3571 MR. BAKER:

Thank you.

# 3572 MR. PETROCELLI:

I need to find the original.

# 3573 MR. BAKER:

It's 10, I think.

# 3574 MR. PETROCELLI:

Might be 10. Yeah. One second.

# 3575 Q:

Let me show you what has been previously marked as Exhibit 10, a photograph of a jacket. Is that the jacket you took?

# 3576 A:

It could have been.

# 3577 Q:

And did you carry it, or did you have it in the Louis Vuitton bag or someplace else?

# 3578 A:

It wouldn't have been in the Louis Vuitton bag.

# 3579 Q:

So if it wasn't--you were not carrying it in your hand, in which bag would this jacket have been?

# 3580 A:

I could have carried it, and I could have just slid it into the suit bag that I had.

# 3581 Q:

With the suit?

# 3582 A:

With the suit, yeah. Just, you know, unzip it, lay it in there and zip it up.

# 3583 Q:

In that suit bag there was surely a suit. Right?

# 3584 A:

Yes.

# 3585 Q:

Pants and matching jacket?

# 3586 A:

Yes.

# 3587 Q:

On a wooden hanger?

# 3588 A:

Yes.

# 3589 Q:

And anything else in that bag besides the possibility of this windbreaker?

# 3590 A:

Shirt and tie.

# 3591 Q:

Shirt and tie.

# 3592 A:

Uh-huh.

# 3593 Q:

Anything else?

# 3594 A:

No.

# 3595 Q:

What is your best recollection: That you carried the windbreaker or you packed it?

# 3596 A:

I don't know. I really don't. I didn't pack it then, but I could have thrown it in there, you know. I could have just laid it in there so I wouldn't have to carry it on the airplane.

# 3597 Q:

When you said you didn't "pack it then," what did you mean by "then"?

# 3598 A:

Well, you're talking about packing the Louis Vuitton bag. I packed the Louis Vuitton bag in my home, and I didn't have it up in my home when I was packing the Louis Vuitton bag.

# 3599 Q:

Where was it?

# 3600 A:

In my Bronco.

# 3601 Q:

That windbreaker was in your Bronco?

# 3602 A:

I believe so, if that was the one, yes.

# 3603 Q:

And you were packing the Louis Vuitton bag in your bedroom.

# 3604 A:

Yes.

# 3605 Q:

Did you wear the windbreaker that day playing golf?

# 3606 A:

No.

# 3607 Q:

The day before?

# 3608 A:

No.

# 3609 Q:

What time did you pack the Louis Vuitton bag?

# 3610 A:

I would say right up to almost 11:00 o'clock.

# 3611 Q:

When did you start packing it?

# 3612 A:

Technically?

# 3613 Q:

What does that mean?

# 3614 A:

Technically, I put something in it. First time I put something in it, somewhere between 8:00 and--somewhere between 7:30 or so and 9:00 o'clock.

# 3615 Q:

Where was the Louis Vuitton bag in your home before you began to pack?

# 3616 A:

In my closet in my bedroom.

# 3617 Q:

When you took it out of your closet, what time was it?

# 3618 A:

After 10:00 o'clock.

# 3619 Q:

What is your best estimate after 10:00 o 'clock what time it was when you took the Louis Vuitton bag out of the closet?

# 3620 A:

I don't know.

# 3621 Q:

When you took that bag out of your closet, you then put it on your bed?

# 3622 A:

Yes.

# 3623 Q:

And you opened it up?

# 3624 A:

No. It was open.

# 3625 Q:

It was open in the closet.

# 3626 A:

Yes.

# 3627 Q:

And there was nothing in it. Correct?

# 3628 A:

I think some underwear and some socks.

# 3629 Q:

From a prior trip?

# 3630 A:

No.

# 3631 Q:

When did the underwear and the socks get into the Louis Vuitton bag when it was open in the closet?

# 3632 A:

Somewhere between 7:30 and 9 o'clock.

# 3633 Q:

And--

# 3634 A:

That's a guess.

# 3635 Q:

What is your best estimate of the time when--Back up. When did the socks and underwear go into the Louis Vuitton bag?

# 3636 MR. BAKER:

He just answered that question.

# 3637 MR. PETROCELLI:

Is that right?

# 3638 O.J. SIMPSON:

Somewhere between 7:30 and 9:00 o'clock.

# 3639 MR. LEONARD:

Yeah.

# 3640

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 3641 Q:

And when you put the socks and underwear into the Louis Vuitton bag from where did you retrieve the bag?

# 3642 A:

From my closet.

# 3643 Q:

And it was open in the closet?

# 3644 A:

I opened it in the closet, yes.

# 3645 Q:

You can pack in your closet. Is that what you're saying?

# 3646 A:

Yes.

# 3647 MR. BAKER:

You can bowl in your closet.

# 3648 MR. PETROCELLI:

You have to understand, I have one of those little closets where it's about eight inches deep, you know.

# 3649 MR. BAKER:

But you're a mere mortal.

# 3650

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 3651 Q:

So you have a walk-in closet. Right?

# 3652 A:

Yes.

# 3653 Q:

Off of your bedroom. Right?

# 3654 A:

Yes.

# 3655 Q:

At some time between 7:30 and 9:00 you went into your closet, and you picked up the bag from the floor?

# 3656 A:

No. From a shelf.

# 3657 Q:

From a shelf.

# 3658 A:

Yes.

# 3659 Q:

And the bag was empty at that time. Correct?

# 3660 A:

I'm not so sure of that.

# 3661 Q:

What was in it?

# 3662 A:

I don't know.

# 3663 Q:

Do you have any--do you have reason to believe that it was not empty?

# 3664 A:

It could have not been empty, yes.

# 3665 Q:

What could have been in it?

# 3666 A:

Dirty clothes.

# 3667 Q:

Did you take the dirty clothes out?

# 3668 A:

If they were in there?

# 3669 Q:

Yes.

# 3670 A:

Yes.

# 3671 Q:

Where did you put them, if you did so?

# 3672 A:

In my hamper.

# 3673 Q:

Where is your hamper?

# 3674 A:

In my bathroom.

# 3675 Q:

Next to the closet?

# 3676 A:

Yeah.

# 3677 Q:

Now, do you have a place in your closet where you pack, lay the bag out, open and pack?

# 3678 A:

Not always, but sometimes, yes.

# 3679 Q:

On this occasion did you pack in the closet?

# 3680 A:

Partially, yes.

# 3681 Q:

And what location in the closet?

# 3682 A:

On the floor.

# 3683 Q:

You laid the bag down on the floor. Correct?

# 3684 A:

Uh-huh.

# 3685 Q:

You have to answer audibly.

# 3686 A:

Yes.

# 3687 Q:

If there were dirty clothes, you took those out and put them in the hamper in the bathroom. Right?

# 3688 A:

That's correct.

# 3689 Q:

Then you went and took some socks and underwear and put them into the bag. Correct?

# 3690 A:

Yes.

# 3691 Q:

How many pairs of socks?

# 3692 A:

I don't know.

# 3693 Q:

How many pairs of underwear?

# 3694 A:

I don't know.

# 3695 Q:

You were only packing for one or two nights. Right?

# 3696 A:

Yes.

# 3697 Q:

And after you put the socks and underwear in the Louis Vuitton bag, did you leave the bag there on the floor?

# 3698 A:

Yes.

# 3699 Q:

And then did you resume packing at a later time?

# 3700 A:

Some more packing, yes.

# 3701 Q:

After you put the socks and underwear, did you leave for a while?

# 3702 A:

I don't know if it was directly after I put the socks and underwear, but obviously I came downstairs again, yes.

# 3703 Q:

So after the socks and underwear were in the Louis Vuitton bag, you came downstairs for a while. Right?

# 3704 A:

At some point after, yes, after I put them in there, yes.

# 3705 Q:

And then at some point after 10:00 o'clock p.m., you went back to the closet in the bedroom--

# 3706 A:

Yes.

# 3707 Q:

--and resumed packing.

# 3708 A:

Yes.

# 3709 Q:

And where did you continue packing?

# 3710 A:

I took the Louis Vuitton out of the -out of there, put it on my bed.

# 3711 Q:

Okay. And what did you then put into the Louis Vuitton bag on your bed?

# 3712 A:

Two golf outfits.

# 3713 Q:

"Two golf outfits," meaning--

# 3714 A:

One and then--yeah, eventually two golf outfits, yes. Two golf outfits.

# 3715 Q:

Well, did you pack both of the golf outfits in the Louis Vuitton bag at the same time?

Did you go to your drawers and pull out two shirts and two pants--

# 3716 A:

No.

# 3717 Q:

--and take them to the thing? What did do you?

# 3718 A:

I just looked at what outfits I had hanging there, and one outfit I knew I was taking, and the other outfit I kind of made a last-minute decision.

# 3719 Q:

And what outfit did you know you were taking?

# 3720 A:

Just basic outfit with a Hertz-with a white shirt, black pants, and then I decided to bring a yellow shirt just in case for the Hertz thing.

# 3721 Q:

So the white shirt and black pants you put into the Louis Vuitton bag first when you began repacking after 10:00 o'clock p.m. Correct?

# 3722 A:

Yes.

# 3723 Q:

And what did you then put into the bag next after the white shirt and black pants?

# 3724 A:

I laid a yellow shirt in there.

# 3725 Q:

A yellow shirt. A golf shirt?

# 3726 A:

Yes.

# 3727 Q:

Now, did you do this right after you put in the white shirt and black pants, or was there a gap?

# 3728 A:

I don't know.

# 3729 Q:

You didn't leave the bedroom, though. Right?

# 3730 A:

No.

# 3731 Q:

Now, what did you put in after the yellow shirt?

# 3732 A:

Maybe a T-shirt.

# 3733 Q:

White T-shirt?

# 3734 A:

Yeah.

# 3735 Q:

An undershirt?

# 3736 A:

Yeah.

# 3737 Q:

And then what?

# 3738 A:

Not much else.

# 3739 Q:

And then you closed the bag up?

# 3740 A:

Yes.

# 3741 Q:

And then did you fold it?

# 3742 A:

Yes.

# 3743 Q:

And left it on the bed?

# 3744 A:

No.

# 3745 Q:

What did you do?

# 3746 A:

Brought it downstairs.

# 3747 Q:

Where?

# 3748 A:

To the front of the house.

# 3749 Q:

And laid it where?

# 3750 A:

Well, he put it in the car the minute I brought it out.

# 3751 Q:

When you started resuming your packing at 10 -sometime after 10:00 o'clock p.m., was the limo driver there yet?

# 3752 A:

Yes.

# 3753 Q:

When you started to pack as you've just described, starting with the white shirt and black pants, the limo driver was already there?

# 3754 A:

Yes.

# 3755 Q:

Okay. Now, when you came down the stairs, did you carry that bag down yourself?

# 3756 A:

Yes.

# 3757 Q:

Did you carry anything else down?

# 3758 A:

At that point, maybe my grip.

# 3759 Q:

Your grip was up in your bedroom too?

# 3760 A:

Yes.

# 3761 Q:

And what did you then do?

# 3762 A:

Walked out front.

# 3763 Q:

And what did you do next?

# 3764 A:

Put them on the ground.

# 3765 Q:

Where?

# 3766 A:

Front of my house.

# 3767 Q:

Was the car there?

# 3768 A:

Yes.

# 3769 Q:

So you came down the steps--

# 3770 MR. BAKER:

You mean the limo--

# 3771 MR. PETROCELLI:

The limo. I'm sorry.

MR. BAKER-when you say he talked about a car?

# 3772 MR. PETROCELLI:

The limo.

# 3773 Q:

Was the limo there?

# 3774 A:

Yes.

# 3775 Q:

You came down the steps. The front door was open or closed?

# 3776 A:

I believe it was open at that point.

# 3777 Q:

Who opened it?

# 3778 A:

Me.

# 3779 Q:

And was it open the entire time you were packing upstairs?

# 3780 A:

What do you mean by "entire time"?

# 3781 MR. BAKER:

He means from 7:30 till approximately 11:00.

# 3782

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 3783 Q:

When you took the Louis Vuitton bag out of the closet and put it on the bed and started to put in the white shirt and black pants and then the yellow shirt and then the T-shirt, you said that the limo driver was already there.

# 3784 A:

Yeah.

# 3785 Q:

Now, my question to you is: Was the door open during that period of time?

# 3786 A:

Not when I first took it out, no.

# 3787 Q:

When you first took the Louis Vuitton bag out of the closet and put it on the bed--

# 3788 A:

Uh-huh.

# 3789 Q:

You have to answer audibly.

# 3790 A:

Yes.

# 3791 Q:

--the front door was open or closed?

# 3792 A:

Closed.

# 3793 Q:

Then you put in the white shirt and black pants and yellow shirt and T-shirt.

When did you open the front door? When you came down with the bag?

# 3794 A:

What bag?

# 3795 Q:

The Louis Vuitton bag.

# 3796 A:

No. Well, I may have opened it. If it was closed again, I would have opened it, yes.

# 3797 Q:

Was the door open or closed when you came downstairs?

# 3798 A:

At that particular time?

# 3799 Q:

To put the bag in the car.

# 3800 A:

I don't recall.

# 3801 Q:

Did you make another trip downstairs to open the door?

# 3802 A:

What do you mean?

# 3803 Q:

During the time that you were packing this Louis Vuitton bag.

# 3804 A:

I had just been downstairs a few minutes before.

# 3805 Q:

Are you saying that while you were packing this Louis Vuitton bag as it was on your bed, you made a trip downstairs?

# 3806 A:

Yes.

# 3807 Q:

Before or after you completed packing these items?

# 3808 A:

Before.

# 3809 Q:

You had started to put in these shirts and pants?

# 3810 A:

Yes.

# 3811 Q:

But not completed?

# 3812 A:

Correct.

# 3813 Q:

You had put in the white shirt and black pants and then stopped?

# 3814 A:

Yes.

# 3815 Q:

And then you went downstairs?

# 3816 A:

Yes.

# 3817 Q:

And you opened the door?

# 3818 A:

Yes.

# 3819 Q:

And then what did you do?

# 3820 A:

I looked in my golf bag.

# 3821 Q:

To see if your--

# 3822 A:

Black shoes were there.

# 3823 Q:

And they were.

# 3824 A:

Yes.

# 3825 Q:

And you went upstairs?

# 3826 A:

After I laid it off the bench onto the ground and left my suitbag there, then I went upstairs.

# 3827 Q:

Your golf bag was inside the house. Right?

# 3828 A:

No.

# 3829 Q:

Previously you testified that it was inside the door.

# 3830 MR. BAKER:

No, he did not.

# 3831 O.J. SIMPSON:

That's not correct.

# 3832

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 3833 Q:

It was outside. Correct?

# 3834 A:

Correct.

# 3835 Q:

You opened the door, it was outside, you looked into it, you left the door open and then took your suit bag out also and put it outside?

# 3836 MR. BAKER:

Let me have that question read back, please.

# 3837 (Pending question read.)

# 3838 MR. BAKER:

That's compound.

# 3839 MR. PETROCELLI:

Okay, let me reask it.

# 3840 Q:

You just said you came down, opened the door. The golfbag, which was already in the cover bag--

# 3841 A:

Yes.

# 3842 Q:

--was outside on the ground. Right?

# 3843 A:

No.

# 3844 Q:

On the bench.

# 3845 A:

Yes

# 3846 Q:

Which is outside the door. Right?

# 3847 A:

Yes.

# 3848 Q:

And you opened it up, looked in --

# 3849 A:

Yes.

# 3850 Q:

and saw your shoes there.

# 3851 A:

Yes.

# 3852 Q:

And you zippered it back up. Right?

# 3853 A:

Yes.

# 3854 Q:

And then you went inside. Right?

# 3855 A:

Yes.

# 3856 Q:

And did you do anything else before you went upstairs?

# 3857 A:

No.

# 3858 Q:

Okay. So you left the door open?

# 3859 A:

I don't recall.

# 3860 Q:

And you went upstairs.

# 3861 A:

Yes.

# 3862 Q:

And you resumed packing the Louis Vuitton bag.

# 3863 A:

Yes.

# 3864 Q:

Put in the yellow shirt and the T-shirt. Right?

# 3865 A:

Yes.

# 3866 Q:

Zipped it up--

# 3867 A:

Yes.

# 3868 Q:

-and then came back downstairs?

# 3869 A:

Yes.

# 3870 Q:

And out?

# 3871 A:

Yes.

# 3872 Q:

Now, when you came out the door, what did you then do?

# 3873 A:

I put the bags down, I looked into my grip--

# 3874 Q:

Put what bags down?

# 3875 A:

Louis Vuitton and my grip. And I looked in my grip, and I was looking for a few things, and I guess I started a conversation with Kato maybe right then or maybe a little later, but Kato was saying something.

# 3876 Q:

I want to be clear about these bags. When you came downstairs, you were carrying your grip and your Louis Vuitton bag. Right?

# 3877 A:

Yes.

# 3878 Q:

And the door was open or closed; you don't remember. Correct?

# 3879 A:

No. No, I don't remember.

# 3880 Q:

Then you came out that door, and you are carrying now two bags. Right?

# 3881 A:

Yes.

# 3882 Q:

And is your golf bag still on the bench?

# 3883 A:

I think at that point they had already put it in the trunk of the car.

# 3884 Q:

And then you went--What did you do with your two bags?

# 3885 A:

Put them right down on the ground right there.

# 3886 Q:

Right there next to the bench?

# 3887 A:

Well, between the benches, yeah. Between the benches is what that area is, yes.

# 3888 Q:

Between the two benches.

# 3889 A:

Yes.

# 3890 Q:

There is one on either side.

# 3891 A:

Yes.

# 3892 Q:

You dropped the bags down. Did someone come and take them?

# 3893 A:

They grabbed -one of them grabbed the Louis Vuitton bag.

# 3894 Q:

One of whom?

# 3895 A:

Kato or Alan Park.

# 3896 Q:

The limo driver.

# 3897 A:

Yes.

# 3898 Q:

And put that where?

# 3899 A:

They were putting it in the trunk of the car.

# 3900 Q:

And you then looked into your grip, you said?

# 3901 A:

Yes.

# 3902 Q:

And what were you looking for?

# 3903 A:

Whatever I might have forgotten, make sure I had everything.

# 3904 Q:

And did you forget anything?

# 3905 A:

Yes.

# 3906 Q:

What had you forgotten?

# 3907 A:

My cell phone or the parts -other parts of my cell phone.

# 3908 Q:

You mean the battery packs?

# 3909 A:

Yeah. I carry--it comes in a case, and it has another battery and it has a plug-in for a car, and it--what else does it have. A card for all the--you know, just a bunch of stuff. It's a nice little case.

# 3910 Q:

Are we talking about the cell phone that I showed you earlier?

# 3911 A:

Yeah, one like that.

# 3912 Q:

Are we talking about Exhibit 7?

# 3913 A:

Yeah, one like that.

# 3914 Q:

Now, when you looked in your grip, the cell phone was not in it?

# 3915 A:

I don't think so, but it could have, but I know the rest of it wasn't in there.

# 3916 Q:

Meaning the case with the cord?

# 3917 A:

The case with the cord with the other battery wasn't in there.

# 3918 Q:

There was already a battery on the phone itse3f. Right?

# 3919 A:

There's a battery on the phone. There's a charger that's not on the phone, there's another battery that's not on the phone, and then there is a cord that you can use for a cigarette lighter, and mine comes in a nice little case.

# 3920 Q:

Missing from the grip were the charger, the battery, the cord, all of which would be contained--

# 3921 A:

Together.

# 3922 Q:

--in the case.

# 3923 A:

Yes.

# 3924 Q:

What color is that case?

# 3925 A:

Black.

# 3926 Q:

Where is that case normally kept?

# 3927 A:

There is no real normal place. Normally with me. If I'm traveling, it's normally with me in grip.

# 3928 Q:

And when you are not traveling, where did you keep the case at that time?

# 3929 A:

No particular place.

# 3930 Q:

Did you keep it in the car?

# 3931 A:

Well, sometimes if I got in the car and the case was--and I had the case, I'd take it out of the thing and plug it into the car. Wherever I was.

# 3932 Q:

So normally you kept the case in the grip, and the grip was with you?

# 3933 A:

Yeah.

# 3934 Q:

Did you take the grip with you to play golf that morning?

# 3935 A:

No.

# 3936 Q:

You left it home?

# 3937 A:

Yeah.

# 3938 Q:

I am talking about the morning of the 12th, of course.

# 3939 A:

Yes.

# 3940 Q:

When you looked into the grip, did anybody see you doing that?

# 3941 A:

It would have been hard for them not to.

# 3942 Q:

That was in the area between the two benches. Right?

# 3943 A:

Yes.

# 3944 Q:

And you then did not see the case. Correct?

# 3945 A:

Well, I can't recall even if I saw the phone at that point, but I know that those are two things that were --at least the case was missing. I can't recall right now if I saw the phone because I went in the house briefly, and I may have picked the phone up when I went in the house in the kitchen at that point, or the phone was there and then I came back out, and then, you know...

# 3946 Q:

This is all while the limo driver is still there?

# 3947 A:

Yeah. And Kato was walking around.

# 3948 Q:

Now, you usually take the case with you on trips?

# 3949 A:

Yes. That's what it is: A travel case.

# 3950 Q:

And when you looked in your bag, was it your intention to see if the case was there and, if it was not there, to make sure you had it?

# 3951 A:

No.

# 3952 Q:

What was your intention?

# 3953 A:

Just to see if I had everything.

# 3954 Q:

When you saw that the case was missing, you decided you wanted to get it?

# 3955 A:

Yes.

# 3956 Q:

You wanted to bring the case with you.

# 3957 A:

Yes.

# 3958 Q:

And the phone. Correct?

# 3959 A:

Of course.

# 3960 Q:

And did you do so?

# 3961 A:

Yes.

# 3962 Q:

You brought the case and the phone?

# 3963 A:

I believe so, yes.

# 3964 Q:

And did you put the phone into the case?

# 3965 A:

At some point, yes.

# 3966 Q:

Did you do that before you got into the limo?

# 3967 A:

I don't remember.

# 3968 Q:

And did you then go retrieve the case someplace?

# 3969 A:

Yes.

# 3970 Q:

Where did you go get the case?

# 3971 A:

In the Bronco.

# 3972 Q:

Where in the Bronco was the case?

# 3973 A:

On the seat, on the other seat in the Bronco.

# 3974 Q:

On the passenger seat?

# 3975 A:

Yes.

# 3976 Q:

Just sitting there?

# 3977 A:

Yes.

# 3978 Q:

Is that where you normally keep it?

# 3979 A:

It depends.

# 3980 Q:

Is that where you used to keep it at the time?

# 3981 A:

Just depends.

# 3982 Q:

Depends on what?

# 3983 A:

Depends on where I put it down.

# 3984 Q:

So you don't have a regular habit --

# 3985 A:

No.

# 3986 Q:

-of putting it in a particular place in the Bronco. Is that what you're saying?

# 3987 A:

Yes.

# 3988 Q:

Did you use that case that day?

# 3989 A:

What do you mean?

# 3990 Q:

Did you use the battery, the cord or the charger?

# 3991 A:

No.

# 3992 Q:

When you went out to--Where was the Bronco when you went to get the case?

# 3993 A:

On Rockingham.

# 3994 Q:

And you went out to Rockingham to get-to the Bronco to get the case? A: Correct.

# 3995 Q:

Was the limo driver in the car waiting for you while you were doing this?

# 3996 A:

No.

# 3997 Q:

He had already put in the Louis Vuitton and the golf clubs in the trunk. Right?

# 3998 A:

And I assume my suit bag, because I told him, "Don't smash my suit bag."

# 3999 Q:

You didn't mention coming downstairs with the suit bag. When did the suit bag get downstairs?

# 4000 A:

First of all, you're incorrect.

# 4001 Q:

I may be. I may not be. Just tell me when the suit bag came downstairs.

# 4002 A:

When I came down to look in my golf bag for my shoes.

# 4003 Q:

You brought the suit bag with you?

# 4004 A:

Yes, because I knew I couldn't carry all three of them at once.

# 4005 Q:

Where did you leave the suit bag?

# 4006 A:

Right out front with my golf bag.

# 4007 Q:

On top of the golf bag on the bench?

# 4008 A:

No, because I put my golf bag on the ground, so--and I could have put the suit bag on top of it or I could have just folded it right there on the ground and then looked in my golf bag and then throw my golf bag on the ground.

# 4009 Q:

So in any event, when you went off to get your phone case, the suit bag, the Louis Vuitton bag and the golf bag were all in the trunk.

# 4010 A:

Yes.

# 4011 MR. PETROCELLI:

Excuse me. Mr. Grornan needs to leave now.

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are going off the record now, and the time is approximately 3:27.

# 4012 (Arthur Groman leaves the deposition.)

# 4013 (Pause in the proceedings.)

# 4014

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 4015 Q:

I think I asked you before. Let me ask you again. I'm not sure what the answer--I remember the answer. When you went to the Bronco to get the case, what was Alan Park doing?

# 4016 A:

Standing around by the trunk of the car, I believe.

# 4017 Q:

And you left your grip back on the floor between the two benches--

# 4018 A:

Yes.

# 4019 Q:

--on the ground?

# 4020 A:

Yes.

# 4021 Q:

When you went out towards the Rockingham gate, how did you cause the gate to open?

# 4022 A:

Push the button.

# 4023 Q:

Right on the inside of the gate?

# 4024 A:

Yes.

# 4025 Q:

Which side?

# 4026 A:

Left side.

# 4027 Q:

And the gate swings inward?

# 4028 A:

Yes.

# 4029 Q:

And then you go out the left side. Right?

# 4030 A:

I don't know. Left side or the right side.

# 4031 Q:

The box is on the left side, the gate starts to open, and then you exit. Correct?

# 4032 A:

Correct.

# 4033 Q:

And you walked out to your car?

# 4034 A:

Yes.

# 4035 Q:

The Bronco.

# 4036 A:

Uh-huh.

# 4037 Q:

You have to answer audibly.

# 4038 A:

Yes.

# 4039 Q:

And what did you do?

# 4040 A:

I looked in my car.

# 4041 Q:

You looked through the window?

# 4042 A:

No. I just opened the door.

# 4043 Q:

Which door?

# 4044 A:

The driver door. Looked in, saw the case, got--if that was the windbreaker, grabbed that--I mean the golf jacket, grabbed that.

# 4045 Q:

You mean Exhibit 10?

# 4046 A:

Yes.

# 4047 Q:

And first of all, where was the phone?

# 4048 A:

The phone, I'm not sure, but I think the phone was either in the bag or on my entry table, because I can't be sure if the phone was there or not. as I told you before. But the case wasn't. And then when I came back --yeah, then I grabbed the case and I grabbed the jacket.

# 4049 Q:

The case was on the passenger seat. Correct?

# 4050 A:

Yes. Yes.

# 4051 Q:

Did you open up the case right while you were in the Bronco to see what was in it?

# 4052 A:

No.

# 4053 Q:

You looked around then for the jacket. Right?

# 4054 A:

No. The jacket was laying right there in between the seats.

# 4055 Q:

Between the front seat and the passenger seat?

# 4056 A:

Yeah.

# 4057 Q:

On the console?

# 4058 A:

Partially on the passenger seat and the console, yes.

# 4059 Q:

And you picked up the case; you picked up the jacket. Did you pick up anything else?

# 4060 A:

No.

# 4061 Q:

Did you look for anything else?

# 4062 A:

No.

# 4063 Q:

How were you able to see while you were doing that?

# 4064 A:

Because I got eyes.

# 4065 Q:

Was there any light in there?

# 4066 A:

Yeah.

# 4067 Q:

In the car?

# 4068 A:

I would assume so, but there's certainly light from the intersection.

# 4069 Q:

There was a light--The car was parked near the intersection?

# 4070 A:

No. Yeah, I would say so. 20 feet, 30 feet from the intersection.

# 4071 Q:

The intersection of what two streets?

# 4072 A:

Ashford and Rockingham.

# 4073 Q:

And where is there a streetlight there?

# 4074 A:

Right in the middle of the intersection.

# 4075 Q:

And you could see inside the Bronco from that streetlight?

# 4076 A:

I would assume I could have seen inside the Bronco without that street light, but, yes, I could see clearly inside the Bronco for what I was looking for.

# 4077 Q:

Was there any light on in the Bronco?

# 4078 A:

Should have been.

# 4079 Q:

Why?

# 4080 A:

Because I think when you open the doors, lights come on the doors.

# 4081 Q:

There are only lights on the doors?

# 4082 A:

I don't know. I don't know. I don't really pay attention. When I open the door, my car's lights come on.

# 4083 Q:

Whatever lights are usually on when you open the door came on that time, too?

# 4084 A:

Yes.

# 4085 Q:

Then you closed the door?

# 4086 A:

Yes.

# 4087 Q:

And did you lock it?

# 4088 A:

I don't recall.

# 4089 Q:

Do you have a--How do you lock your car when you leave it, the Bronco?

# 4090 A:

Push a button, I think.

# 4091 Q:

On a key?

# 4092 A:

No.

# 4093 Q:

On the door panel?

# 4094 A:

Yes.

# 4095 Q:

Where is that button?

# 4096 A:

On the door panel.

# 4097 Q:

Which door panel?

# 4098 A:

Whichever door, I guess, I'm going in or out.

# 4099 Q:

Did you press that button that night?

# 4100 A:

I don't recall.

# 4101 Q:

Did you lock the car?

# 4102 A:

I don't recall.

# 4103 Q:

Is that the only way you can lock the car: By pressing that button on the door panel?

# 4104 A:

I don't know. You may be able to lock it with a key, but I'm not sure.

# 4105 Q:

When you typically locked the Bronco in May-June 1994, how did you do so?

# 4106 A:

I'm sure I would push that button.

# 4107 Q:

You don't have one of those keys with the automatic lock on it, do you?

# 4108 A:

As I already said. no.

# 4109 Q:

Okay. And you closed the door?

# 4110 A:

Yes.

# 4111 Q:

And how did you get back into the property?

# 4112 A:

I think--I'm not sure. I'm not sure of this, but I think the gate had closed, and I used my key to open it, the gate.

# 4113 Q:

There is a key on the outside of the gate?

# 4114 A:

Yes.

# 4115 Q:

When you key it, the gate automatically opens again?

# 4116 A:

Yes.

# 4117 Q:

When that gate automatically opens at Rockingham, then when you press the button on the inside, let's say, does it then close after a certain amount of time?

# 4118 A:

Yes.

# 4119 Q:

What is that interval of time?

# 4120 A:

I don't know.

# 4121 Q:

Roughly.

# 4122 A:

30, 40 seconds.

# 4123 Q:

It opens, it stays open for 30, 40 seconds and then closes?

# 4124 A:

Yes.

# 4125 Q:

And is the same true of Ashford?

# 4126 A:

No.

# 4127 Q:

How does Ashford work? Or how did it work?

# 4128 A:

How does it work. You can push it open if it's off the hinges, or you can push a button to open it to go out. There is no key you use to come in.

# 4129 Q:

When you are on the outside-excuse me. When you want to go out of the Ashford entrance, there is a place where you can press the button to open up the gate?

# 4130 A:

Yes.

# 4131 Q:

And is that on the left side also?

# 4132 MR. BAKER:

As you are going out?

# 4133

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 4134 Q:

Yes, as you're going out.

# 4135 A:

Yes.

# 4136 Q:

When you press that button, does the gate then--is the hinge on the left side, or is the hinge on the right side?

# 4137 A:

No. It opens both ways

# 4138 Q:

Oh, there's two--okay. Does it swing inside?

# 4139 A:

Yes.

# 4140 Q:

And does it also then automatically close?

# 4141 A:

No.

# 4142 Q:

It stays open?

# 4143 A:

Yes.

# 4144 Q:

How does one close it? Manually?

# 4145 A:

Yeah, or with--if you got a thing from the car.

# 4146 Q:

Oh, like a remote control?

# 4147 A:

Yes.

# 4148 Q:

Is there a remote control device for the closing and opening of the Rockingham gate?

# 4149 A:

Yes.

# 4150 Q:

Is it the same one for both gates?

# 4151 A:

Yes.

# 4152 Q:

And you always kept one in the Bronco?

# 4153 A:

Yeah.

# 4154 Q:

In the car?

# 4155 A:

Yeah. They kept getting ripped off by the kids and stuff, so, you know, you're always fighting to have one.

# 4156 Q:

You mean the gate openers?

# 4157 A:

Yes.

# 4158 Q:

Where did you keep them in the Bronco?

# 4159 A:

Wherever. On the dash--I mean, on the dashboard; sometimes up there, but they were all broke; in the glove compartment; on the seat.

# 4160 Q:

Do you have a separate one for the Bentley?

# 4161 A:

Pardon me?

# 4162 Q:

You have a separate clicker--

# 4163 A:

Yes.

# 4164 Q:

--for these doors for the Bentley?

# 4165 A:

Yes.

# 4166 Q:

Is it the same clicker that works the garage door?

# 4167 A:

No.

# 4168 Q:

Different one?

# 4169 A:

I don't know if I really have one to work the garage door, but I'm sure at one point I did.

# 4170 Q:

How do you open and close the garage door from the outside of the garage?

# 4171 A:

I don't know if I in recent years ever have.

# 4172 Q:

For example, when the door was open that evening, it was opened from the inside?

# 4173 A:

Yes.

# 4174 Q:

Does the outside of the Ashford gate, like the Rockingham gate, have a place for a key so that you can make the doors open?

# 4175 A:

No.

# 4176 Q:

So if you don't have one of those remote control gizmos, you're out of luck?

A Yes.

# 4177 Q:

You can't manually open them can you, by pushing them.

# 4178 A:

No.

# 4179 Q:

When you close--You used the key on the outside of the Rockingham gate to get back in. Correct?

# 4180 A:

I believe so. I'm not a hundred percent sure of that, but I believe so.

# 4181 Q:

And then the door opened--the gate opened, I should say.

# 4182 A:

Yeah.

# 4183 Q:

And then you walked into the gate and then into the car?

# 4184 A:

I'm sorry?

# 4185 Q:

You walked into the driveway on Rockingham and then to the limousine and then into the car?

# 4186 A:

No.

# 4187 Q:

Where did you go?

# 4188 A:

Kato was talking about some noise, and I talked to him out front and asked Park if he had a flashlight and told Kato to go in and look in the cupboard in my kitchen.

# 4189 Q:

The front door was still open?

# 4190 A:

Yes.

# 4191 Q:

When Kato said this to you, were you near the front door?

# 4192 A:

What do you mean?

# 4193 Q:

In other words, you had walked in through the Rockingham gate and walked in the direction of the limousine. Correct?

# 4194 A:

Yes.

# 4195 Q:

And when--

# 4196 A:

Well, to the direction of my front door, yes.

# 4197 Q:

To the direction of your front door.

# 4198 A:

Yes.

# 4199 Q:

Why were you walking to the front door and not to the limousine?

# 4200 A:

Because my front door was open, and my bag was sitting there between the benches in front of my front door.

# 4201 Q:

The grip bag.

# 4202 A:

Yes.

# 4203 Q:

And you went to the grip bag, and what did you do then?

# 4204 A:

I put the phone thing in the grip bag, and I put--that's what I did at that moment.

# 4205 Q:

Did you put the jacket in the grip bag?

# 4206 A:

I don't recall. I may have laid it across it.

# 4207 Q:

"The phone thing" meaning the case. Right?

# 4208 A:

Uh-huh.

# 4209 Q:

You have to answer audibly.

# 4210 A:

Yes.

# 4211 Q:

And then at that point in time Kato came up to you and said something to you?

# 4212 A:

Kato had been talking to me even before I went out, and he was continuing to talk again when I came back in.

# 4213 Q:

He mentioned something at that moment in time about sounds?

# 4214 A:

I think he was talking about it all the time, but I'm not sure.

# 4215 Q:

Including that time?

# 4216 A:

Yes.

# 4217 Q:

And you then asked Mr. Park if he had a flashlight?

# 4218 A:

When I was coming back in, I said, "Does he have"--I may have said it to Kato and Kato may have said no, and then I know during the course of whatever--I was just trying to pack and leave.

# 4219 Q:

I want to go back here. When you were coming back to the grip bag, your purpose was to put the items in the grip bag or in the car, close the door and get in the limo. Right?

# 4220 A:

Yeah. And I had some other things, yes.

# 4221 Q:

: You didn't have any further business to do in the house. Right?

# 4222 A:

Except to close the door.

# 4223 Q:

Except to close the door.

# 4224 A:

Yeah.

# 4225 Q:

Which you closed from the outside. Correct?

# 4226 A:

I would have, yes, but I didn't.

# 4227 Q:

You had your keys with you. Right?

# 4228 A:

Coming back, yes.

# 4229 Q:

Because you used that to get in the Rockingham entrance

# 4230 A:

That's right.

# 4231 Q:

What key chain was that, by the way?

# 4232 A:

I don't know.

# 4233 Q:

How many keys were on it?

# 4234 A:

Two or three.

# 4235 Q:

What were those keys to?

# 4236 A:

Probably my house, maybe my office, maybe my New York apartment I really don't know. I know my house for sure.

# 4237 Q:

Are all of the keys to your Rockingham house that you have on a single key chain?

# 4238 MR. BAKER:

You mean in 1994

# 4239 MR. PETROCELLI:

Correct. June of 1994.

# 4240 O.J. SIMPSON:

What do you mean?

# 4241

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 4242 Q:

In other words, the key chain that had the key that you used get in the Rockingham gate--

# 4243 A:

Yeah.

# 4244 Q:

--that also had some other keys?

# 4245 A:

I believe so, yeah.

# 4246 Q:

Including the front door. Right?

# 4247 A:

Yes.

# 4248 Q:

How many keys to get into your front door are needed?

# 4249 A:

One.

# 4250 Q:

Is that the same key as the Rockingham gate key?

# 4251 A:

Yes.

# 4252 Q:

They are keyed alike. Right?

# 4253 A:

Pardon me?

# 4254 Q:

Same key to use both?

# 4255 A:

Yes.

# 4256 Q:

Does that key operate any other exterior doors going to your home?

# 4257 A:

Yes.

# 4258 Q:

Which ones?

# 4259 A:

My bedroom, my closet and every other lock that's in my house.

# 4260 Q:

So all of the locks in your house, including interior locks, work off of one key?

# 4261 A:

Yes.

# 4262 Q:

And that would include the exterior front door key and the Rockingham gate key?

# 4263 A:

That's right.

# 4264 Q:

Did you have any other keys on that chain that had to do with the Rockingham property?

# 4265 A:

I don't think so.

# 4266 Q:

What other keys did you have on there, if any?

# 4267 A:

I don't know. I know there were other keys on there, but I don't know what they were for.

# 4268 Q:

Is that where your car key to the Bronco is also?

# 4269 A:

No.

# 4270 Q:

To the Bentley?

# 4271 A:

Probably, yes.

# 4272 Q:

The Bronco is on a separate--

# 4273 A:

Yes.

# 4274 Q:

--key chain of its own?

# 4275 A:

Yes.

# 4276 Q:

And is there anything else on that key chain?

# 4277 A:

No.

# 4278 Q:

When you went to put the stuff in the case and close the door, you were--Kato was talking to you, you asked Park for a flashlight--

# 4279 A:

Kato may have asked--

# 4280 MR. BAKER:

He hasn't finished, and it's compound, and I don't know what you mean about "the stuff" and --

# 4281 MR. PETROCELLI:

Let me withdraw that question.

# 4282 Q:

When you were going back to the front door to put the stuff that you were carrying, I guess the case, I should say, into the grip bag and to close the front door, you then encountered Kato and he was talking to you. Right?

# 4283 A:

Yeah, Kato had been talking to me or I had been watching Kato talking or hearing him speak almost ever since I first walked out--the second time I walked out the front door.

# 4284 Q:

Now, when you saw Kato at that moment, did you then go back inside?

# 4285 A:

What moment?

# 4286 Q:

That moment when you returned from the Bronco.

# 4287 A:

Yes.

# 4288 Q:

Where did you go inside the house?

# 4289 A:

What did I do or where did I go?

# 4290 Q:

Where did you go?

# 4291 A:

I was on my way to the kitchen, and I went in the kitchen.

# 4292 Q:

What did you do in the kitchen?

# 4293 A:

Got a drink of water, basically.

# 4294 Q:

And then you left?

# 4295 A:

Yes.

# 4296 Q:

Did you carry your grip bag in with you?

# 4297 A:

No. I did carry a bag in with me but not the grip bag.

# 4298 Q:

The grip bag was still on the floor outside between the two benches?

# 4299 A:

Yes.

# 4300 Q:

What bag did you carry into the house with you?

# 4301 A:

A ball bag.

# 4302 Q:

Where did that ball bag come from?

# 4303 A:

It was on the ground outside.

# 4304 Q:

Where outside?

# 4305 A:

By where I was chipping balls behind my Bentley.

# 4306 Q:

What was in that ball bag?

# 4307 A:

Balls.

# 4308 Q:

Anything else?

# 4309 A:

Maybe -I don't know. Balls. Maybe a golf glove.

# 4310 Q:

Golf glove?

# 4311 A:

Yeah.

# 4312 Q:

And how did that bag with balls and a golf glove in it get on the ground near your Bentley?

# 4313 A:

When I was picking balls out of the back of my Bentley for taking with me to Chicago and for chipping away, I dropped the bag. After I picked out, I dropped the bag on the ground.

# 4314 Q:

And you just left it there?

# 4315 A:

Yes.

# 4316 Q:

Why?

# 4317 A:

Because--

# 4318 MR. BAKER:

Why not?

# 4319 O.J. SIMPSON:

--I was doing other things.

# 4320

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 4321 Q:

Why did you leave the bag on the ground when you closed up your Bentley trunk and went inside?

# 4322 A:

Because I was doing other things.

# 4323 Q:

Did you just forget, you mean?

# 4324 A:

Yes.

# 4325 Q:

Had you not forgotten, you would have put the bag back into the trunk and closed the trunk?

# 4326 A:

Possibly, yes. Possibly.

# 4327 Q:

When did you pick up that bag to go inside the house?

# 4328 A:

When I came back from the Bentley from getting my cell phone stuff.

# 4329 Q:

Did you get the cell phone out of the Bentley?

# 4330 A:

No.

# 4331 MR. BAKER:

You just said "Bentley." You said getting the cell phone out of the Bentley. Did you mean--

# 4332 O.J. SIMPSON:

Out of the Bronco.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (5)

Robert Baker

Am I a potted plant?

Baker's exasperated protest after Petrocelli repeatedly pushed drug questions past his instructions not to answer — one of the most memorable lines of the deposition.

O.J. Simpson

I hope so.

Simpson's response when asked whether Cathy Randa shredded documents — a startling answer that Petrocelli immediately followed up on, revealing Simpson's awareness that shredding occurred during the trial.

John Kelly

I especially want to hear things against his lawyer's advice.

Kelly (counsel for Nicole's estate) pointedly remarks after Baker scolds Simpson for volunteering information — illustrates the adversarial dynamics among counsel.

O.J. Simpson

She was in trouble. She did something she wasn't--she thought she was going to get in some trouble. She needed my help.

Simpson's account of Nicole calling him crying in January 1994 about a drug-related incident — testimony that Kelly immediately interrupted with a recess request.

O.J. Simpson

Faye was talked--babbling. Faye was, in my judgment, totally plastered. So she was babbling, yes.

Simpson's characterization of Faye Resnick's condition on June 5 or 6, days before the murders — establishes his awareness of her drug/alcohol state immediately before the killings.

Evidence (6)

Plaintiffs' Exhibit 4A–D

Exhibits distributed off the record, referenced from prior day's session

distributed to counsel

Plaintiffs' Exhibit 5

Exhibit referenced from prior day's session

distributed to counsel

Plaintiffs' Exhibit 7A–C

Three photographs of Simpson's cell phone (number 613-3232), the type used in his vehicles and with a detachable battery pack

introduced, identified by Simpson as consistent with his phone; battery packs notably absent from photos

Plaintiffs' Exhibit 8 (also criminal trial Exhibit 599)

1994 Month At-A-Glance calendar maintained by Cathy Randa — the fuller working calendar with detailed entries Simpson says he would not normally see

introduced, reviewed for June and May entries

Plaintiffs' Exhibit 9

A second 1994 calendar — a cleaner page Cathy Randa would Xerox and place in Simpson's travel folder/grip

introduced, identified by Simpson as the version transmitted to him

Informal

Simpson's black bag ('grip') — chain of custody from Rockingham on June 13 through LAPD custody to Kardashian's house and into the Bronco on June 17

discussed extensively

Notable Exchanges (5)

Daniel Petrocelli•Robert Baker•O.J. Simpson

Petrocelli presses a series of questions about cocaine and narcotics use through 1993–1994. Baker repeatedly instructs Simpson not to answer; Simpson answers 'No' anyway each time, prompting Baker's famous 'Am I a potted plant?' outburst.

heated

Daniel Petrocelli•O.J. Simpson

Petrocelli asks whether Cathy Randa shredded documents. Simpson answers 'I hope so,' then explains the context (media going through garbage, lawyers shredding during trial) — but the answer opens the door to detailed questions about whether subpoenaed documents were destroyed.

revealing

John Kelly•Daniel Petrocelli

As Simpson begins to describe Nicole's emotional January 1994 phone call about drug trouble, Kelly interrupts and requests an off-record meeting with Petrocelli — suggesting concern about Nicole's estate and how this testimony might be used.

strategic

Robert Baker•John Kelly

After Simpson volunteers information Baker did not want disclosed, Baker mutters that he is speaking 'against his lawyer's advice'; Kelly responds that he especially wants to hear such things.

wry/adversarial

Daniel Petrocelli•O.J. Simpson

Detailed walk-through of Simpson retrieving dogs from Nicole's Bundy property on June 5 or 6 — covers the property layout, the front and back gates, the side alley, the maid's room door, and whether Simpson was bleeding or wearing Band-Aids at the time.

methodical

Light Moments (3)

Robert Baker

'Am I a potted plant?' — Baker's exasperated protest at being ignored while instructing Simpson not to answer drug questions.

John Kelly

After Baker scolds Simpson for volunteering answers against advice, Kelly deadpans: 'I especially want to hear things against his lawyer's advice.'

O.J. Simpson

Simpson recounts chasing his dog Kato (named the same as houseguest Brian 'Kato' Kaelin) down Bundy Drive and into an alley — the dog bolted the moment Faye Resnick opened the gate.

Credibility Attacks (4)

⚔ O.J. Simpson

prior inconsistent statement / memory challenge

Petrocelli probes whether Simpson 'remembers now' taking a second bag to Kardashian's house — contrasting his current vague memory with prior-day testimony. Baker objects to the characterization.

⚔ O.J. Simpson

document destruction / spoliation

Petrocelli questions Simpson at length about whether Cathy Randa shredded documents — including calendar entries and materials relating to Nicole and the 1989 domestic violence incident — and whether Simpson instructed or knew about it. Simpson's 'I hope so' response is particularly damaging.

⚔ O.J. Simpson

prior bad acts / drug use

Petrocelli questions Simpson about cocaine, marijuana, methamphetamine, and amphetamine use in 1993–1994. Simpson denies all; Baker instructs refusal for the 1993 questions. The LAPD blood report allegedly showing marijuana traces is raised and Baker immediately shuts it down.

⚔ O.J. Simpson

physical evidence / bleeding

Petrocelli specifically asks whether Simpson was bleeding or had cuts or Band-Aids on the June 5/6 visit to Bundy — directly connecting his presence at the property to the question of how blood evidence might have been left there.

Witness Demeanor

Cooperative but frequently vague ('I don't recall,' 'I don't have a best recollection')

Repeatedly answers 'No' to drug questions even after Baker instructs him not to answer — appears eager to deny on the record

Volunteers 'I hope so' without prompting when asked about document shredding, then catches himself and walks it back with context

Matter-of-fact when describing retrieving dogs from Bundy — 'It's something I do often. This one didn't stand out any more than any other time.'

Objections

14 objections (0 sustained, 0 overruled)

Proceeding 9036 • 4332 utterances • Plaintiff witness

Deposition Trial

Department 103