Cross-examination of Laura Hart McKinny

📄 Cross-examination of Laura Hart McKinny — Wednesday, September 6, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\SEP\6\CROSS-EXAMINATION-OF-LAURA-HAR.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 148 of 167

◀ Direct examination of Laura Hart McKinny Redirect examination of Laura Hart McKinny ▶

Witness: Laura Hart McKinny
Examiner: Christopher Darden
Called by: Defense • Date: Wednesday, September 6, 1995 • Utterances: 286

Darden cross-examined McKinny primarily about whether she or her attorneys had attempted to sell the Fuhrman tapes and transcripts, using a nondisclosure agreement sent to Dove Publishing (People's 603) to challenge her credibility. He also pressed her on why she never stopped Fuhrman from using racial epithets during their recorded sessions, and questioned whether her use of the word in her own screenplay undermined her claimed offense at hearing it.

# 1 THE COURT:

All right. Mr. Darden.

# 2 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

# 3 MR. DARDEN:

Good morning.

# 4 MS. MCKINNY:

Good morning, Mr. Darden.

# 5 MR. DARDEN:

It is true that you and I have met before, correct?

# 6 MS. MCKINNY:

That's true, yes.

# 7 MR. DARDEN:

You, your husband, your attorneys, Miss Clark, Miss Lewis, Mr. Hodgman and myself, we all met on August 17th, I believe, in the D.A.'s office; is that correct?

# 8 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes, I believe that was the date.

# 9 MR. DARDEN:

August 17, 1995?

# 10 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

# 11 MR. DARDEN:

And we had a discussion about the transcripts and tapes and epithets that you have described here today and yesterday, right?

# 12 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

# 13 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And it is a fact, isn't it, that is, that Mark Fuhrman used these epithets in 1985, correct?

# 14 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

# 15 MR. DARDEN:

And in 1988, correct?

# 16 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

# 17 MR. DARDEN:

Now, the two gentlemen seated here behind me, who are these two gentlemen?

# 18 MS. MCKINNY:

Mr. Ron Regwan, Mr. Matthew Schwartz. They are my attorneys.

# 19 MR. DARDEN:

And they are entertainment attorneys?

# 20 MR. COCHRAN:

Object, your Honor. That is irrelevant and immaterial.

# 21 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 22 MR. DARDEN:

You told us a little while ago that the tapes and transcripts were not for sale; is that correct?

# 23 MS. MCKINNY:

That's correct.

# 24 MR. COCHRAN:

Just a moment. Misstates the evidence, your Honor.

# 25 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 26 MR. DARDEN:

May I reask that?

# 27 THE COURT:

I think she answered it.

# 28 MR. DARDEN:

Oh, okay.

# 29 MR. DARDEN:

They are entertainment lawyers?

# 30 MR. COCHRAN:

Objection, your Honor. You sustained an objection to that.

# 31 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 32 MR. DARDEN:

Isn't it true that Mr. Regwan and Mr. Schwartz have been attempting to sell those transcripts and those tapes?

# 33 MR. SCHWARTZ:

Objection, your Honor, attorney-client privilege.

# 34 MR. COCHRAN:

May we approach, your Honor?

# 35 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 36 MR. COCHRAN:

Objection, your Honor, also. I'm objecting also.

# 37 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 38 MS. MCKINNY:

I can answer the question?

# 39 THE COURT:

You can answer the question.

# 40 MS. MCKINNY:

The question is isn't it true that they have been attempting to sell those tapes and transcripts?

# 41 MR. DARDEN:

Yes.

# 42 MS. MCKINNY:

No, that is not true.

# 43 MR. DARDEN:

I would like to show you--may I have a moment to confer with counsel?

# 44 THE COURT:

Yes.

# 45 (Discussion held off the record between Deputy District Attorney and Defense counsel.)

# 46 MR. DARDEN:

Have you been attempting to sell any audiotapes other than the Fuhrman audiotapes?

# 47 MS. MCKINNY:

No.

# 48 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Have you been attempting to sell any transcripts other than the transcripts of the Fuhrman audiotapes?

# 49 MS. MCKINNY:

That question is vague to me. Could you rephrase it? It makes it sound like I'm attempting to sell the tapes and transcripts and I'm not, so I would appreciate it if you would rephrase it.

# 50 MR. DARDEN:

Your Honor, what is next in order?

# 51 THE COURT:

I'm sorry?

# 52 THE CLERK:

603.

# 53 THE COURT:

603. People's 603.

# 54 (Peo's 603 for id = 4-page document)

# 55 MR. DARDEN:

I have a four-page document that is dated August 18, 1985. It is entitled "Nondisclosure agreement." It is on the letterhead of Regwan and Schwartz and their law offices. May I approach the witness, your Honor?

# 56 THE COURT:

You may.

# 57 MR. DARDEN:

May I remain for a few moments?

# 58 THE COURT:

Yes, you may.

# 59 MR. DARDEN:

Let me show you what has been marked People's 603, please. You can take it?

# 60 (Witness complies.)

# 61 MR. DARDEN:

Is that document entitled "Nondisclosure agreement"?

# 62 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

# 63 MR. DARDEN:

Is it on your attorney's letterhead?

# 64 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes, it is.

# 65 MR. DARDEN:

Is it dated August 18, 1995?

# 66 MS. MCKINNY:

That's correct.

# 67 MR. DARDEN:

And you are their client?

# 68 MS. MCKINNY:

I am.

# 69 MR. DARDEN:

And paragraph 2 in that document, does it read as follows:

# 70 MR. COCHRAN:

I object, your Honor, without further foundation with regard to this witness and this document.

# 71 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 72 MR. DARDEN:

That document is addressed to dove publishing; is that correct?

# 73 MS. MCKINNY:

That's correct.

# 74 MR. DARDEN:

To the publisher, Mr. Viner?

# 75 MS. MCKINNY:

I don't know that he is the publisher. It is addressed to Mr. Michael Viner, yes.

# 76 MR. DARDEN:

Were the tapes, the Fuhrman tapes, submitted to Michael Viner at dove publishing?

# 77 MS. MCKINNY:

No, they were not.

# 78 MR. DARDEN:

Was there an attempt to submit them to him?

# 79 MS. MCKINNY:

Not to my knowledge, no.

# 80 MR. DARDEN:

Look at the last page of that document, if you will.

# 81 (Witness complies.)

# 82 MR. DARDEN:

Is there a signature at the last page?

# 83 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes, there is.

# 84 MR. DARDEN:

And can you read that signature?

# 85 MS. MCKINNY:

It is Ron Regwan.

# 86 MR. DARDEN:

Now, if you could turn back to the first page, please.

# 87 (Witness complies.)

# 88 MR. DARDEN:

Does the document contain the term--

# 89 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, I object. There is no foundation this witness has ever seen it.

# 90 THE COURT:

Sustained. Sustained. Foundation.

# 91 MR. DARDEN:

Have you ever spoken with inside edition?

# 92 MS. MCKINNY:

Have I ever spoken with inside edition?

# 93 MR. DARDEN:

Yeah. Yes.

# 94 MS. MCKINNY:

Could you define what inside edition is? Is that a tabloid or television show, newspaper, periodical?

# 95 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. You are not familiar with the term inside edition?

# 96 MS. MCKINNY:

I have heard the term, yes.

# 97 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to the form of the question.

# 98 THE COURT:

Wait. Overruled.

# 99 MS. MCKINNY:

I have heard inside edition, but I would like you to define it for me, please, so I am clear in my response.

# 100 MR. DARDEN:

It is a television program. Have you ever spoken to any representative from inside edition, the television program?

# 101 MS. MCKINNY:

No, I have not.

# 102 MR. DARDEN:

When did you bring those tapes to California? Do you recall the date?

# 103 MS. MCKINNY:

When we were subpoenaed we flew to California on July 13, 1995, and my husband and I brought the tapes and gave them to the court.

# 104 MR. DARDEN:

Now, the document in your hand, you have never seen that document?

# 105 MS. MCKINNY:

No.

# 106 MR. DARDEN:

Did you authorize your attorneys to sell the transcript?

# 107 MS. MCKINNY:

No.

# 108 MR. DARDEN:

Did you authorize them to sell the audiotapes?

# 109 MS. MCKINNY:

No.

# 110 MR. DARDEN:

Have you ever discussed with anyone selling the audiotapes for one-half million dollars?

# 111 MS. MCKINNY:

Have I discussed that with anyone?

# 112 MR. DARDEN:

Yes.

# 113 MS. MCKINNY:

No, I have not discussed it with anyone.

# 114 MR. DARDEN:

Have you also given--given your attorneys the authority to negotiate for the sale of the Fuhrman tapes?

# 115 MS. MCKINNY:

I have authorized my attorneys to determine the value of the tapes, yes.

# 116 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And that is what that document relates to then?

# 117 MR. COCHRAN:

Well, object, your Honor. Calls for speculation. She has never seen a copy before.

# 118 THE COURT:

Overruled. You can answer the question.

# 119 MS. MCKINNY:

Thank you. I would assume, although that I have never seen this document, that this is what this relates to. It is a nondisclosure agreement.

# 120 MR. DARDEN:

Doesn't the document say that the tapes are submitted so that dove publishing can decide whether or not they want to purchase--

# 121 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to the form of this question, your Honor.

# 122 THE COURT:

Sustained. Sustained.

# 123 MR. DARDEN:

The witness--

# 124 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 125 MR. DARDEN:

All right. Is it indicated anywhere on that document that the tapes are being submitted to dove publishing so that dove publishing can help you ascertain the--ascertain the market value of the Fuhrman tapes?

# 126 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, I object to the form of the question. She has never seen the document before.

# 127 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 128 MS. MCKINNY:

Would you ask the question again, please.

# 129 MR. DARDEN:

Where if anywhere on that document does it indicate that the Fuhrman tapes are being submitted to a publisher so that the publisher can help you determine the market value of those tapes?

# 130 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, I object to the form of that question. It is argumentative.

# 131 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 132 MS. MCKINNY:

Firstly, I have never read this document. I have never seen it. I would have to read it to be able to answer that question clearly. And the tapes and transcripts were never submitted to dove publishing. They have only been given to the Prosecution and the Defense.

# 133 MR. DARDEN:

If you weren't interested in selling the tapes, why then did you meet and confer with others to determine the market value--

# 134 MR. COCHRAN:

Object. That is vague, your Honor--

# 135 MR. DARDEN:

--of the tapes?

# 136 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 137 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to the form of the question. It is vague.

# 138 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 139 MS. MCKINNY:

Again please, again.

# 140 MR. DARDEN:

The question is this if you weren't interested in selling those tapes and transcripts, why then did you have your attorneys go out and attempt to sell them to publishers to determine the market value?

# 141 MR. COCHRAN:

Assumes a fact not in evidence.

# 142 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 143 MR. DARDEN:

The document--

# 144 THE COURT:

Sustained. Rephrase the question.

# 145 MR. DARDEN:

If you weren't interested in selling the tapes, why did you have your attorneys contact a publisher?

# 146 MS. MCKINNY:

It is more to know what the value of the tapes were and I authorized my attorneys to do that.

# 147 MR. DARDEN:

And that is because you were considering selling the tapes at the time?

# 148 MS. MCKINNY:

No. I wanted to know what the value of the tapes were and my attorneys advised me that it was in my best interests and they would be negligent as attorneys if they didn't let me know exactly what the value--market value of the tapes and/or the transcripts would be.

KEY QUOTE

# 149 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

# 150 MS. MCKINNY:

Keep in mind I've had a great deal of material leaked and that is an aspect that I would certainly want to be considering.

# 151 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

# 152 MR. DARDEN:

In addition to attempting to determine the market value of the tapes, you also had your attorneys attempt to determine the market value of your transcripts of the tapes as well; is that correct?

# 153 MS. MCKINNY:

That would be correct, yes. I believe--I thought that is what this document was in reference to. "Certain transcripts" I believe you have highlighted in yellow.

# 154 MR. DARDEN:

Was it your testimony yesterday that you were offended when you heard Mark Fuhrman use that epithet?

# 155 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

# 156 MR. DARDEN:

Now, when you met with Miss Clark and Miss Lewis and Mr. Hodgman and myself on August 17, do you recall me asking you what you thought or what came to mind when you first heard Fuhrman use that epithet?

# 157 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes, I do.

# 158 MR. DARDEN:

And you told me that nothing came to mind; is that correct?

# 159 MS. MCKINNY:

That's correct, that I couldn't remember anything coming to mind the first time. Your question was what came to mind the first time you heard that word, I believe.

# 160 MR. DARDEN:

But you don't remember what came to mind at the time?

# 161 MS. MCKINNY:

No. That would have been about ten years ago. I could not remember the first time I heard that word used what came to my mind.

# 162 MR. DARDEN:

You don't remember a white police officer using this epithet in your presence and your not being offended by it?

# 163 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to the form of that question and the tone of the voice.

# 164 THE COURT:

Sustained. It is argumentative.

# 165 MR. DARDEN:

You understand that that word is the most vile word in the English language?

# 166 MS. MCKINNY:

I think it is one of the most vile words in the English language, yes.

# 167 MR. DARDEN:

You think there are worse?

# 168 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes, I certainly do. Why are we having this adversarial relationship? I don't understand that. It is a vile word. Why do I have to define it more so than it is?

# 169 MR. DARDEN:

You wrote a screenplay, right?

# 170 MS. MCKINNY:

That is accurate.

# 171 MR. DARDEN:

Did you use that word in the screenplay?

# 172 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

# 173 MR. DARDEN:

Did you attempt to out and sell that screenplay?

# 174 MS. MCKINNY:

Certainly.

# 175 MR. DARDEN:

You are using that word in your screenplay to help make money, right?

# 176 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to the form of that question, your Honor. That is argumentative.

# 177 THE COURT:

Sustained. Sustained.

# 178 MR. DARDEN:

Are you trying to make money off of the use of that word?

# 179 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to the form of this question, your Honor. Object.

# 180 THE COURT:

Overruled. Overruled. It is an appropriate question.

# 181 MR. DARDEN:

When you met Detective Fuhrman you told him that you were a screenwriter?

# 182 MS. MCKINNY:

That is accurate.

# 183 MR. DARDEN:

And you told him that you had written other screenplays?

# 184 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

# 185 MR. DARDEN:

And how many screenplays have you written up to this point?

# 186 MS. MCKINNY:

I've written about a dozen screenplays, approximately six that I would--would consider that would be in appropriate shape now to be read, but I have written about a dozen screenplays, more treatments, synopses.

# 187 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. How many screenplays did you tell Fuhrman you had written when you first met him?

# 188 MR. COCHRAN:

Assumes a fact not in evidence that she told him anything, your Honor.

# 189 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 190 MR. DARDEN:

Did you tell Detective Fuhrman how many screenplays you had written when you first met him?

# 191 MS. MCKINNY:

I don't recall telling him how many screenplays I had written, but it could have come up in conversation that I had the year before won an award for a screenplay through the Writer's Guild of America East Foundation. That could have come up.

# 192 MR. DARDEN:

Now, do you have to be a member of the writer's guild to win that award?

# 193 MS. MCKINNY:

No, you don't.

# 194 MR. DARDEN:

Are you a member of the writer's guild?

# 195 MS. MCKINNY:

No, I am not.

# 196 MR. DARDEN:

You have had one screenplay published or made into a film?

# 197 MS. MCKINNY:

Have I had one screenplay made into a film?

# 198 MR. DARDEN:

Yes.

# 199 MS. MCKINNY:

No.

# 200 MR. DARDEN:

Have you had any made into a film?

# 201 MS. MCKINNY:

I have had short pieces filmed, yes.

# 202 MR. DARDEN:

You had a short piece called "The painter"?

# 203 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes, I did.

# 204 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Who made that into a film?

# 205 MS. MCKINNY:

That was directed--produced by playboy productions.

# 206 MR. DARDEN:

Who directed that film?

# 207 MS. MCKINNY:

Daniel McKinny.

# 208 MR. DARDEN:

Your husband?

# 209 MS. MCKINNY:

That's correct.

# 210 MR. DARDEN:

And this piece was what, sort of soft porn kind of piece?

# 211 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, object to the form. Objection.

# 212 THE COURT:

Sustained. This is not relevant. This is not relevant.

# 213 MR. DARDEN:

When Mark Fuhrman used these words in your presence why didn't you just tell him to stop?

# 214 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, I object to the form of that question. I object to the form of that question.

# 215 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 216 MR. COCHRAN:

Argumentative.

# 217 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 218 MS. MCKINNY:

For the same reason I didn't tell him to stop when he told me of police procedures, cover-ups, other information that I felt were important for me to have a clear understanding in context of this material that I was writing. He told me many things that I thought were important for me to understand, many things I hadn't been aware of, as did other officers of the Los Angeles Police Department, as did many of the other interviews that I did and ride-alongs I went on. I was in a journalistic mode. I was not judgmental. And I needed that information to help me write a more realistic journalistic piece and I did not ask him to stop using the type of normal ordinary language he would use or other officers would use. I needed to know how he would speak.

# 219 MR. DARDEN:

You told us yesterday that there was no racial subplot to the screenplay you were planning to write, correct?

# 220 MS. MCKINNY:

That is accurate.

# 221 MR. DARDEN:

And yet you use this epithet in your screenplay anyway; is that also correct?

# 222 MS. MCKINNY:

That is true.

# 223 MR. DARDEN:

Now, your relationship in 1985 with Mark Fuhrman, was it only professional?

# 224 MR. COCHRAN:

Object, your Honor. This is irrelevant and immaterial.

# 225 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 226 MS. MCKINNY:

He was--it was--I'm sorry. It was a business relationship. He was a technical advisor for the screenplay.

# 227 MR. DARDEN:

And that is it?

# 228 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

# 229 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

# 230 MR. DARDEN:

I can I have a moment, your Honor?

# 231 THE COURT:

Certainly.

# 232 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

# 233 MR. DARDEN:

You mentioned something about cover-ups a few minutes ago; is that right?

# 234 MS. MCKINNY:

I'm sorry. Again, please.

# 235 MR. DARDEN:

Did you mention the term "Cover-up" a few minutes ago?

# 236 MS. MCKINNY:

I did, yes.

# 237 MR. DARDEN:

What you were alluding to at that time was a discussion you and Fuhrman had as it related to women police officers; is that correct?

# 238 MR. COCHRAN:

Object, your Honor. Object to the form of that question as argumentative.

# 239 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 240 MR. DARDEN:

Is that correct?

# 241 MS. MCKINNY:

Again, please, I'm sorry.

# 242 MR. DARDEN:

What you were alluding to was a conversation you had with Detective Fuhrman as it related to female police officers and the LAPD's recognition that female police officers did not perform well in violent situations; is that right?

# 243 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to the form of that, your Honor. Object to the form of that question.

# 244 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 245 MS. MCKINNY:

Some LAPD officers and also in relation to police procedural cover-up issues that I needed to know about.

# 246 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

# 247 MR. DARDEN:

When you spoke to us on August 17--can I have one moment?

# 248 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

# 249 MR. DARDEN:

I will get Mr. Cochran a copy of this.

# 250 (Brief pause.)

# 251 MR. DARDEN:

While I look for this--strike that.

# 252 (Brief pause.)

# 253 MR. DARDEN:

I neglected to bring Mr. Cochran a clean copy of this document, your Honor.

# 254 THE COURT:

Why don't you show it to him.

# 255 (Brief pause.)

# 256 (Discussion held off the record between Deputy District Attorney and Defense counsel.)

# 257 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

# 258 MR. DARDEN:

Do you recall during our August 17th interview that Miss Clark asked you specifically what you meant when you used the term "Cover-ups"?

# 259 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to the form of that, your Honor.

# 260 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 261 MS. MCKINNY:

Yeah, I do. Yes, I do remember us discussing that.

# 262 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Do you recall her--strike that. Do you recall telling her that what you were referring to were cover-ups in terms of the LAPD's recognition and cover-up of the fact that female officers did not perform well in violent situations, or words to that effect?

# 263 MS. MCKINNY:

I don't know if it was Miss Clark or Miss Lewis who made that comment. It was one of them.

# 264 MR. DARDEN:

But that was basically your response to them at the time?

# 265 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

# 266 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Now, you asked a moment ago why we are involved in some adversarial relationship. Do you recall asking that?

# 267 MS. MCKINNY:

I felt that you were. I don't feel adversarial toward you, but I felt that there was something negative coming from some of your questions, yes.

# 268 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. You didn't stop him the first time he used the epithet, correct?

# 269 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, that has be asked and answered.

# 270 THE COURT:

It has.

# 271 MR. DARDEN:

Well, you didn't stop him the twentieth time he used the epithet?

# 272 MR. COCHRAN:

Asked and answered.

# 273 THE COURT:

That has not. Overruled.

# 274 MR. DARDEN:

Correct?

# 275 MS. MCKINNY:

That's correct.

# 276 MR. DARDEN:

You didn't stop him the fortieth or forty-second time that he used the epithet, correct?

# 277 MS. MCKINNY:

I didn't abridge his dialogue or conversation during an interview, no.

KEY QUOTE

# 278 MR. DARDEN:

Given the fact that you have included this epithet in your screenplay, do you feel that it is appropriate under some circumstances to utter or use this word?

# 279 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, I object to the form of this. Object to the form of that question.

# 280 THE COURT:

Overruled. Overruled.

# 281 MS. MCKINNY:

Do I personally feel it is appropriate?

# 282 MR. DARDEN:

Yes.

# 283 MS. MCKINNY:

No, I don't.

# 284 MR. DARDEN:

Why then include it in a screenplay, a screenplay that you intend to make into a movie?

# 285 MS. MCKINNY:

Because it is reflective of particular officers or officer's dialogue, feelings at a particular time. It is representative of what would be said.

# 286 MR. DARDEN:

That is all I have.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (4)

Laura Hart McKinny

I wanted to know what the value of the tapes were and my attorneys advised me that it was in my best interests and they would be negligent as attorneys if they didn't let me know exactly what the value--market value of the tapes and/or the transcripts would be.

McKinny concedes her attorneys were actively valuing the tapes for potential sale, undermining her earlier claim that they were 'not for sale.'

Laura Hart McKinny

I was in a journalistic mode. I was not judgmental. And I needed that information to help me write a more realistic journalistic piece and I did not ask him to stop using the type of normal ordinary language he would use or other officers would use. I needed to know how he would speak.

McKinny's core defense of her methodology — she frames her passive recording of Fuhrman's slurs as professional journalism, not endorsement.

Laura Hart McKinny

Why are we having this adversarial relationship? I don't understand that. It is a vile word. Why do I have to define it more so than it is?

Revealing moment of witness frustration during Darden's pointed questioning about the n-word, showing the emotional tension beneath the proceeding's procedural surface.

Laura Hart McKinny

I didn't abridge his dialogue or conversation during an interview, no.

Precise, controlled answer to Darden's escalating 'you didn't stop him the fortieth time' line of questioning — holds her ground without conceding ground.

Evidence (1)

People's 603

Four-page nondisclosure agreement dated August 18, 1995, on letterhead of Regwan and Schwartz, addressed to Michael Viner at Dove Publishing, signed by Ron Regwan

Introduced and used to challenge McKinny's claim the tapes were not for sale; McKinny said she had never seen the document before

Notable Exchanges (3)

Christopher Darden•Laura Hart McKinny

Darden confronted McKinny with People's 603 — a nondisclosure agreement her attorneys sent to a publisher — while she maintained she had never seen it and had not authorized a sale, only authorized her attorneys to 'determine the value' of the tapes.

strategic

Christopher Darden•Laura Hart McKinny

Darden pressed McKinny on why she never told Fuhrman to stop using the epithet — escalating from the first time, to the twentieth, to the 'fortieth or forty-second time' — attempting to undercut her stated offense at the word.

heated

Christopher Darden•Laura Hart McKinny

Darden challenged McKinny on whether including the n-word in a screenplay she intended to sell was itself a form of profiting from the word, drawing a sustained objection when he asked if it was 'soft porn.'

aggressive

Credibility Attacks (3)

⚔ Laura Hart McKinny

prior inconsistent statement / bias

Darden used the August 17 meeting at the D.A.'s office as a prior inconsistent statement baseline, establishing that McKinny told prosecutors 'nothing came to mind' when she first heard Fuhrman use the epithet — contrasting with her direct testimony that she was offended.

⚔ Laura Hart McKinny

financial interest / bias

Darden introduced People's 603, a nondisclosure agreement from McKinny's attorneys to Dove Publishing, to argue she or her lawyers were attempting to sell the Fuhrman tapes commercially — undercutting her portrayal of herself as a neutral journalist rather than someone with financial stakes in the material.

⚔ Laura Hart McKinny

impeachment by conduct

Darden argued that McKinny's own use of the n-word in a screenplay she tried to sell, combined with never stopping Fuhrman from saying it across dozens of recorded sessions, was inconsistent with her claimed deep offense at the word.

Witness Demeanor

Witness frequently asked Darden to repeat or rephrase questions ('Again, please')

Witness interjected unsolicited context ('Keep in mind I've had a great deal of material leaked and that is an aspect that I would certainly want to be considering.')

Witness complied with document review when asked

Objections

28 objections (11 sustained, 12 overruled)

Proceeding 7522 • 286 utterances • Defense witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103