Thank you. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.

THE JURY: Good afternoon.

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. NEUFELD

Good afternoon, Mr. Rokahr.

Good afternoon, Mr. Neufeld.

Mr. Rokahr, would you please tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury what you do for a living.

I'm a photographer for the city of Los Angeles assigned to the police department.

And how long have you been working as a photographer for the Los Angeles Police Department?

As a civilian employee, almost 10 years. It's nine years and two months, and I've worked as a reserve officer since 1980 or `81 up until `86. I'm still working as a reserve officer.

Mr. Rokahr--

Mr. Rokahr, if you could, try to keep your voice up, please. All right. Mrs. Robertson, give me a little more volume on that.

Want some more juice?

Mr. Rokahr, would you please tell the jury what it is you do for the Los Angeles Police Department, what your job title is and what that entails, sir.

Job title is photographer ii and I photograph primarily homicide scenes. At this point, I work from 10:00 o'clock at night till 5:30 in the morning, and that's my--my main job.

Well, you didn't work 10:00 o'clock to 5:00 A.M. last night, did you, sir?

No, sir, I didn't.

Okay. And when you say you go out to photograph homicide scenes for the Los Angeles Police Department, do you go out there with equipment?

I carry equipment in the police car. It's an unmarked car, and I have cameras, film, tripod, everything a photographer would need.

And what happens to the film after you shoot the photographs, sir?

When I return to the office after working usually all night up until the morning, I turn the film in to be processed. If there's nobody there to do it, I do it myself, I do the developing myself.

Does that developing occur at the Los Angeles Police Department?

Yes, sir.

Is that at Parker center?

It's at Parker center on the fourth floor.

By the way, sir, did you meet me for the first time yesterday at Parker center?

I believe it was first time, yeah.

Okay. You have no recollection of ever talking to me before, do you, sir?

No, I don't.

And when we met yesterday at Parker center, it was to interview you in connection with this case; is that correct, sir?

That is correct.

And who else was present for this interview that I had with you at Parker center?

I don't know the other gentlemen that you brought, but it was Dave Adkins that was present with us I think.

And who is David Adkins?

David Adkins is my OIC, which stands for officer in charge of the photo lab.

Who also works for the Los Angeles Police Department, correct?

Yes, sir.

And was there also a Deputy District Attorney present for this interview?

Uh, I'm trying to think of his name.

Well, even if you don't remember his name, was somebody from the District Attorney's office present?

Yes. Mr. Yochelson.

Okay. Now, I'd like to call your attention to the early morning hours of June 13th, 1994. Were you the Los Angeles Police Department photographer assigned to go to 875 Bundy in connection with a double homicide?

That is correct.

And approximately what time did you arrive at that location?

We received a call at 0248 and I probably arrived around 0320.

Sir, did you have an opportunity to review the logs of Bundy to--well, I'm sorry. Withdrawn. When you first arrived at 875 Bundy, did you immediately go see the log-in police officer?

I could not find him where I had parked.

And where was that that you had parked?

I parked right on the very corner of I believe it's Bundy and Dorothy and I had to walk in back of the--the actual location to find someone who had the log.

And when you found someone who had the log, they logged you in so to speak?

They logged me in, yes, sir.

And have you at any time reviewed that log prior to your testifying today?

I have never seen that log.

When you spoke with me yesterday, did you tell me that the time that you had arrived at 875 Bundy was approximately 3:10 in the morning?

Could be 3:10, could be 3:20. I'm not sure.

Okay. And when you arrived, sir, how many cameras did you use to photograph the scene at 875 Bundy?

Just one camera.

And what kind of film did you use?

We use 200 asa Kodak.

Is that color film?

Kodak. Yes. Gold color film.

That's color print film?

Color print film.

And as soon as you signed in or logged in at the rear of the house, were you then given a walk-through through the scene?

I was given a walk-through by a police officer.

And would that be a uniformed police officer who gave you that walk-through?

Uniformed police officer.

And approximately how long did that walk-through take, sir?

Probably no more than five minutes.

So if you had arrived at approximately 3:10, would that mean that the walk-through ended at about 3:15?

Objection. Misstates the testimony.

Sustained. Rephrase the question.

If you arrived at 3:20 in the morning and you logged in--I'm sorry. If you logged in at 3:20 in the morning and the walk-through took approximately five minutes, would that mean that the walk-through was over by 3:25?

I would say so.

Okay. And as soon as the walk-through was over, did you encounter Detective Phillips?

Objection. This is leading.

Sustained.

As soon as the walk-through was over, did you encounter a detective?

Still leading.

No--

Overruled.

Excuse me?

No, I did not.

After you completed the walk-through that took approximately five minutes, what is the next thing that happened?

I shot the overalls of the streets involved. So what we do is, we shoot up and down the street, the intersection, and I believe I shot pictures--can I refer to some of my notes here?

Yes.

All right. Mr. Rokahr, it appears you brought a notebook. Are these all the photographs that you took on that day?

These are all the photographs I took.

All right. Proceed.

Now, Mr. Rokahr, you said that beginning then at about 3:25, after you had the walk-through at the scene, you began to shoot overalls, okay?

That is correct.

When you say overalls, is another word for that establishment shots?

Location shots.

Okay. And are those shots, the purpose of those shots to give one an overall impression of the street scene?

The street scene and possible escape routes that the detectives might want to see if a witness should become available.

And so would those be a series of photographs taken both in front of 875 Bundy and also behind 875 Bundy in the alleyway?

And up and down the streets.

Okay. And, sir, approximately how long did it take you to shoot those overall or establishment or location shots that you just described?

Objection. No foundation.

Overruled. You can answer the question.

I would say approximately 25, 35 minutes.

Okay. So if you began taking these overall or location shots at approximately 3:25 in the morning and they took approximately 25 minutes to shoot, that would mean that you were finished shooting these location shots at approximately 3:50 or 3:55 in the morning. Would that be a fair estimate?

Something like that.

And, sir, immediately after you completed shooting the overalls, did you then speak to a detective?

Objection. This is leading. Vague as to "Immediately."

Sustained. Rephrase the question.

Well, what was the next thing that happened after you completed shooting these location shots, sir?

I believe at that point, I met up with Mark Fuhrman, Detective Mark Fuhrman.

All right. And about how many minutes after you finished shooting these overall location shots was it that you met up with Detective Mark Fuhrman?

It's difficult to see. At that time, it meant nothing to me, the difference in time. So I would say could be an hour.

Sir--

I'm just guessing at this point.

Sir, when you were interviewed by me yesterday, do you recall that I asked you at the beginning of the interview whether it was all right for me to tape-record the interview?

Yes.

And do you recall saying that it was fine with you?

No problem.

And during that interview, do you recall saying that it was approximately five--

Objection, your Honor. Can I see what counsel is reading from?

Sure.

Is he reading from a transcript?

Notes I made for myself.

Proceed.

When you were interviewed by me yesterday on tape at the Los Angeles Police Department Parker center, didn't you say to me that it was approximately five to 10 minutes after you completed the overall shots of the scene that you encountered Detective Mark Fuhrman?

I may have said that to you. I didn't realize I stayed by my car for a while.

Sir, did you have a conversation with any member of the District Attorney's office or the police department after we finished our interview yesterday about the facts concerning this case?

No, sir.

Did you have any discussion with any member of the District Attorney's office or the police department today about this case and your involvement before you took the witness stand?

No, sir. I looked at my--my paperwork, at my logs.

Sir, during the lunch break, did you speak to assistant District Attorney Christopher Darden about your involvement in this case?

Deputy District Attorney.

Excuse me--Deputy District Attorney Christopher Darden about your involvement in this case?

Mr. Neufeld, 2:30.

Fine. One second.

Sir, are you admitting that yesterday morning, when I interviewed you at the police department headquarters at Parker center, that you said to me that you met up with Mark Fuhrman approximately five or 10 minutes after completing the overall photographs or at about 4:10 in the morning or so? Do you recall saying that to me yesterday on tape?

Yes, I do.

Okay. And when you met up with Mark Fuhrman at approximately 4:10 in the morning, sir, did Mark Fuhrman take you on another walk-through through the scene?

That is correct.

Objection. This is leading, misstates the testimony.

It is. It's leading, counsel.

All right. When you met up with Mark Fuhrman at about 4:10 in the morning, what did Mark Fuhrman do with you, sir?

Objection. Misstates the witness' testimony.

Overruled. What happened? Mr. Rokahr, what happened when you met up with Detective Fuhrman?

Detective Fuhrman asked me to come around I believe it's Dorothy Street to the back of the house to show me what we have as far as a crime scene is concerned and as far as evidence is concerned.

And at that time when he took you through, did he ask you to take a few pictures of something in particular?

By the time we arrived to the actual crime scene, he first of all pointed out--the bodies were obvious--where there is some evidence, and he asked me to photograph it.

Now--I'm sorry.

Now, sir, if, as you indicated yesterday during the interview, that you first encountered Mark Fuhrman at 4:10 A.M., how long did it take you to walk with Mark Fuhrman to the location where these items of evidence were in the green foliage approximately?

I really don't want to narrow myself down on that because I'm not sure.

Well, I'm not asking you for a specific--whether it's four minutes or seven minutes, sir. I'm just asking you, would it be fair to say, for instance, that it's less than 15 minutes from the time that Mr. Fuhrman encountered you and the time you got to those items of evidence which are in the green foliage?

Objection, your Honor. This is leading.

Overruled.

Would that be a fair estimate of time?

Could be 15 minutes, could be 20 minutes, 30. I'm not sure.

Okay. Would it be a fair estimate that it was something between 15 minutes and 30 minutes?

I think it's a fair estimate.

All right. So, sir, if, as you told me yesterday, that it was approximately 4:10 in the morning when you encountered Mr. Fuhrman at 875 Bundy at the time that he was having you take pictures of items of evidence that were in and about the green foliage, would that be sometime between 4:25 in the morning and 4:40 in the morning based on your estimate, sir?

Objection. Argumentative.

Overruled.

I would say it's fair.

Okay. And the couple of pictures that Detective Fuhrman instructed you to take at that point, sir, were they pictures of Mr. Fuhrman pointing at the glove?

Objection. That misstates the testimony.

Sustained.

Did Mr. Fuhrman--I'm sorry. Did Detective Fuhrman instruct you to take any pictures of him pointing at objects of evidence?

Okay. And was the evidence that you requested him to point to the glove and the hat?

That is correct.

And that would be the glove and the hat at Bundy; is that correct?

That is correct.

And did you at that moment take pictures of Detective Fuhrman pointing at the glove and the hat?

Yes, I did.

And, sir, was one of the reasons that you asked Detective Fuhrman to point to the item is because it was nighttime and thus, the glove was difficult to see?

That is correct.

Objection. Leading.

Overruled.

I'm sorry. What was your answer, sir?

That is correct.

Now, sir, after taking those couple of pictures, pictures of the glove and the hat--

I think we're assuming the number of photographs at this point.

Okay. Do you know approximately how many photographs you took of Detective Fuhrman pointing at items of evidence near the green foliage that night?

I believe only those two.

Now, after taking those two photographs that you just described, sir, did you then begin to take--did you at some point after that take other pictures of the scene?

May I?

And the record should reflect that Mr. Rokahr is referring again to his notebook of photographs.

Yeah. I only show two photographs, and these are in sequence, of Detective Fuhrman pointing to the items in the foliage.

Okay. And after you took those two photographs, at some time after you took those two photos, did you begin to take other photographs of the scene at 875 Bundy?

That is correct.

And in the next several photographs that you took--after you took photographs of Detective Fuhrman pointing at the glove, for those next several photographs, were you being instructed by a police officer to take photographs or were you simply using your own professional judgment and taking them alone?

Some were of my own choices and some were--there were no police officers instructing me. It would have been Mark Fuhrman.

Well, sir, in the pictures that you took immediately after the glove, the first let's say five photographs--I'm sorry--withdrawn as to "Immediately." The next--

May I come--approach the witness one second?

You may.

Sir, for instance, sequentially, the next five photographs that you took after you took pictures of Mark Fuhrman pointing at the glove, for those five pictures, were you relying on your own professional judgment or were you being instructed by a detective or police officer to take those pictures?

At that point, I believe Mark Fuhrman said, "Let's go around the front of the building and shoot from there."

Sir, when you were interviewed by me yesterday, didn't you tell me that as to the next group of five photographs that you took after Mark Fuhrman pointed out the glove, that as to the next five photographs, they were not taken at the instructions of any detective or police officer, but they were pictures that you simply took using your own professional judgment? Didn't you say that to me yesterday?

I probably did, meaning--meaning that I do shoot a lot of photographs in my own judgment. The reason I'm saying now that Mark Fuhrman instructed me to go around the front is because I switched from the actual crime scene, and we had to walk all the way around front to do these photographs, and I think I was instructed.

Sir, yesterday when I interviewed you, you said that for these next five photographs, you were not instructed; isn't that correct?

Objection. Asked and answered, leading.

Overruled.

And argumentative.

Overruled. You can answer the question.

I really don't remember what I told you last night or yesterday afternoon.

All right. One moment.

I'm going to ask you to listen to this portion of the tape, sir, of the conversation of the interview of yesterday and tell me whether or not you did say during the interview yesterday that as to the next five photographs after the photographs of Detective Fuhrman pointing to the glove, that for those, you were not instructed by any police officer or detective, but instead were using your own professional judgment.

I'm going to object. I would like an opportunity to hear this before it's going to be played to the jury or anything else.

Sustained.

May we approach, your Honor?

No.

It was provided in discovery, your Honor.

Sustained. You said it was a tape recording from yesterday that you made. All right.

They have a copy.

You gave them a copy?

I gave them a copy. They received a copy this morning as soon as I received it.

All right. I have a request from the jury for a break. All right. Let's take our recess at this point. All right. All right. We'll stand in recess for 15. You may step down. Thank you.