📄 Sidebar: Craig Fiato witness — Tuesday, September 19, 1995
Address:
C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\SEP\19\SIDEBAR-CRAIG-FIATO-WITNESS.DOC
TRIAL
▲ Day 157 of 167

Sidebar: Craig Fiato witness

Date: Tuesday, September 19, 1995 • Utterances: 28
At a sidebar in the civil trial, the court addresses whether Craig Fiato can testify as a third witness about Det. Vannatter's statement regarding the Simpson case. The prosecution argues Craig Fiato is cumulative — he was not present for the allegedly sarcastic remark and adds nothing new — while Cochran argues he has independent recollection and is the person who originally triggered the FBI inquiry. Judge Ito overrules the 352 objection but limits the scope of testimony.
1 (The following proceedings were held at the bench:)
2 THE COURT:

We are over at the side bar. The court reporters have both threatened to quit if you are allowed to do another witness.

3 MR. COCHRAN:

They won't quit; I will slow down.

4 THE COURT:

It is not slowing down, but talking over people and other things. They said if Cochran is doing the next witness, I am quitting. That is what they just told me. Okay.

5 MR. KELBERG:

Anticipating that the next witness is on the same subject matter as we have heard from the previous three witnesses, your Honor, we object under 352. This is cumulative. There is not going to be any issue as to that statements were made. The context in which they were made has been set by two witnesses. Larry Fiato was present for both of them, Agent Wacks was present for one of them. Anything further is purely cumulative.

6 THE COURT:

Mr. Shapiro.

7 MR. COCHRAN:

Well, I will be calling this witness. Let me say this: That is not true at all. This witness, Craig Anthony Fiato, is in a different position, and the reason why we are allowed to call him is because the attack that this was like some kind of a sarcasm or some kind of joke or whatever. It is not clear what the D.A. is trying to say. But this man, Craig Anthony Fiato, felt strongly enough about it that he went and told Vic Walters, and I gave you the quote from ABC, that "If they treat me like they did before, I will tell them what I know about the Simpson case." There was not any joke, any sarcasm. Serious business. Very limited, your Honor, because he heard the first conversation. He has a better memory of the incidents in the hotel room when they are all sitting around drinking beers of what took place. It is extremely relevant and it is relevant to the point where he is the one who triggered--he is the reason that we are here today, because he tells Vic Walters, the FBI finds out about that. As you know, they then track them down and we find out, because they tell the D.A.'s office, this man who just left here has some vagueness in his recall, but the important thing--because the People continue with each of them to object--is that sarcastic according to the FBI agent or they are joking around with to this witness? I think we have a right to go into this. They have not laid, as they claim they did in Fuhrman or whatever--this is a little different. When you talk about the use of time, this is a very small--the direct would be no more than five or ten minutes and so we are not wasting a lot of time.

8 THE COURT:

I must say that I'm more pleased with Mr. Shapiro's examination on direct than I am with most lawyers these days.

KEY QUOTE
9 MR. COCHRAN:

I will try to follow what he did in that regard then. We are talking about five or ten minutes from that standpoint of getting right to the point and betting it over with. This is another witness on a critical point for us because the point is, Judge, this is not an issue that you can talk about a 352 situation. It is not resolved. Clearly it is relevant as to where we are, and so we should have a right to bring this person in. These are witnesses that--we have had a lot of trouble trying to get these witnesses in on this particular issue. If they concede this had taken place or whatever, it wasn't sarcastic or it wasn't this, it would be something else. We have a right to explore that from that standpoint so we can then argue that.

And this is a search for truth. I am indicating to the court we are allowed to call this witness. If you are impressed with the direct examination that is very short, you will get a direct examination that is very short. I always watch your Honor as we are putting this on. And I think we have a right to do that, Judge, and that is the only issue we are going to try to go into.

10 THE COURT:

All right.

11 MR. KELBERG:

Your Honor, I would like to be heard.

12 THE COURT:

Yes.

13 MR. DARDEN:

No. 1, Craig Fiato was not present for the conversation that was described as sarcastic. Larry Fiato was the only one present for that one, so Craig Fiato can offer no personal knowledge of that statement. With respect to the statement in the hotel room, we have Larry Fiato describing it not as sarcastic but describing it in a completely different way, and if we get into Craig Fiato--and I can show the court the transcript--Craig Fiato, no. 1, is a very nonresponsive witness. But the bottom line to all of what he would say is this was all taken out of context. It was completely taken out of context. These were just a bunch of guys shooting the breeze. So all of that is in with Larry Fiato. This man adds nothing. All he adds is going--they have already gone--excuse me, Mr. Cochran--they have already gone into this with Agent Wacks with respect to the telephone conversation with Vic Walters. It was as a result of that information being passed to Agent Wacks that the report was made to the FBI. All of that is in the record. And if you call five witnesses on this, you have different perspectives from everybody, but Craig Fiato's perspective is not different from Larry Fiato's perspective on the first conversation. He is not a witness to the second conversation. The other people have no recollection of the conversation taking place.

14 THE COURT:

Okay.

15 MR. KELBERG:

Enough us enough.

16 MR. COCHRAN:

May I respond?

17 THE COURT:

No, you may not. All right. The objection is overruled; however, it should be brief, to the point. And the only thing that can be mentioned about the ABC connection is that he did in fact relate this conversation later to somebody in the news media period, because that is the only relevance that it has because it connects with what Agent Wack's said, that the reason, the motivation to go to his supervisors, that they heard about the news media interest. So he can say this statement was made to him by Detective Vannatter. He can describe the facts and circumstances that that statement was made. He can also say that he later told this same information to the news media.

18 MR. KELBERG:

And is Mr. Cochran entitled to ask or am I allowed to ask, if he goes into that area, the circumstances under which the statement was made to the news media, how it came up?

19 THE COURT:

Why do we want to do that?

20 MR. KELBERG:

I'm not sure we do, but I just want to understand the groundrules of the court.

21 THE COURT:

Well, if he wants to go into that. He seems to think that is an appropriate part of it, which explains why it came to all of our attention this late in the case--

22 MR. KELBERG:

Okay.

23 THE COURT:

--so that is relevant.

24 MR. KELBERG:

I would object as to why I called them, because the point has really already been identified by Wacks, that it is the fact of Wacks saying that the call has been made.

25 THE COURT:

That is true.

26 MR. KELBERG:

That is the motivating force.

27 THE COURT:

All right. Statement made; circumstances.

28 MR. COCHRAN:

He didn't say anything about why he is the one that said that.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (4)

Lance A. Ito
The court reporters have both threatened to quit if you are allowed to do another witness.
Opens the sidebar with a rare moment of judicial humor at Cochran's expense, referencing his tendency to talk over people.
Lance A. Ito
I must say that I'm more pleased with Mr. Shapiro's examination on direct than I am with most lawyers these days.
A pointed indirect criticism of Cochran delivered mid-argument — Ito implying Cochran should emulate Shapiro's brevity.
Christopher Darden
Craig Fiato, no. 1, is a very nonresponsive witness. But the bottom line to all of what he would say is this was all taken out of context. It was completely taken out of context. These were just a bunch of guys shooting the breeze.
Darden previews the prosecution's framing of the Vannatter statement — not an admission, just casual conversation — while also flagging Craig Fiato as a problematic witness.
Johnnie Cochran
He is the reason that we are here today, because he tells Vic Walters, the FBI finds out about that.
Cochran's core argument for Craig Fiato's unique relevance — he initiated the chain of disclosure that brought Vannatter's statement to light.

Evidence (3)

Informal
ABC news media statement by Craig Fiato to Vic Walters about the Simpson case
discussed as basis for Craig Fiato's relevance and scope of permissible testimony
Informal
Hotel room conversation involving Vannatter's statement, with Larry Fiato, Craig Fiato, and others present
disputed as to whether Craig Fiato's recollection adds anything beyond Larry Fiato's testimony
Informal
Craig Fiato transcript referenced by Darden
cited to show Fiato is nonresponsive and adds nothing new

Notable Exchanges (3)

Lance A. ItoJohnnie Cochran
Ito opens by relaying that court reporters threatened to quit if Cochran examined another witness, citing his habit of talking over people. Cochran promises to slow down.
light but pointed
Christopher DardenJohnnie Cochran
Darden methodically dismantles Cochran's argument — Craig Fiato was absent for the 'sarcastic' remark, his hotel room account mirrors Larry Fiato's, and the ABC angle is already in through Agent Wacks. Ito cuts Cochran off before he can respond.
strategic
Brian KelbergLance A. Ito
After the ruling, Kelberg probes the groundrules on cross-examining Craig Fiato about the circumstances of his news media disclosure. Ito holds it relevant but Kelberg signals he may not pursue it.
procedural

Light Moments (2)

Lance A. Ito
Ito opens the sidebar by announcing the court reporters threatened to quit if Cochran examines another witness, citing his tendency to talk over people.
Lance A. Ito
Ito praises Shapiro's direct examination as better than most lawyers', pointedly in front of Cochran who is about to conduct the next direct.

Credibility Attacks (1)

⚔ Craig Fiato
preemptive characterization
Darden describes Craig Fiato as 'a very nonresponsive witness' and argues his account adds nothing beyond what Larry Fiato and Agent Wacks already testified to, framing him as a cumulative and unreliable addition.

Objections

2 objections (0 sustained, 1 overruled)
Proceeding 7745 • 28 utterances
Criminal Trial
Department 103
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📂 SEP 19, 1995 📄 Sidebar: Craig Fiato witness
SEP 19, 1995 KRT DvH TD