Direct examination of Herbert MacDonell

📄 Direct examination of Herbert MacDonell — Monday, September 18, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\SEP\18\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-HERBERT-.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 156 of 167

◀ Jury returns; witness sworn Sidebar: drying time ▶

Witness: Prof. Herbert MacDonell
Examiner: Peter Neufeld
Called by: Defense • Date: Monday, September 18, 1995 • Utterances: 26

Peter Neufeld conducts direct examination of forensic expert Professor Herbert MacDonell about glove shrinkage experiments. MacDonell confirms he conducted experiments to determine whether blood could cause 15 percent shrinkage in Aris leather light gloves — the same figure cited by prosecution glove expert Richard Rubin. The examination is repeatedly cut short by sustained objections from Marcia Clark, ending with Neufeld requesting a sidebar over the scope of permitted testimony.

# 1 MR. NEUFELD:

Professor MacDonell, did you have an opportunity to watch on television portions of the testimony of Mr. Rubin who testified about the Aris leather light gloves?

PROF. MACDONELL: Yes, I did.

# 2 MR. NEUFELD:

And did you have an opportunity to watch his testimony back in June of this year as well as more recently, perhaps a week ago?

PROF. MACDONELL: More recently. I don't recall it in June. I wasn't here in June. I was in Alaska.

# 3 MR. NEUFELD:

But did you review some of his testimony though?

PROF. MACDONELL: I'm familiar with it. I did not review it in detail.

# 4 MR. NEUFELD:

Okay.

# 5 THE COURT:

Excuse me, gentlemen. Professor, would you allow Mr. Neufeld to finish asking you the question before you start your answer, as the court reporter is going to have a difficult time.

PROF. MACDONELL: I'll try.

# 6 THE COURT:

Thank you, Professor.

# 7 MR. NEUFELD:

As you sit here today, sir, are you aware that Mr. Rubin testified that both the Rockingham and Bundy gloves are approximately 15 percent smaller than our new standard extra large Aris leather light gloves?

PROF. MACDONELL: Yes, I'm aware of that.

# 8 MR. NEUFELD:

Remember that 15 percent figure?

PROF. MACDONELL: Yes, I do.

# 9 MR. NEUFELD:

Okay. And, sir, did you also watch on television last week when Mr. Rubin was shown photographs of Mr. Simpson wearing brown gloves at NFL football games?

PROF. MACDONELL: Yes.

# 10 MR. NEUFELD:

And were you aware, sir, as you sit here today that Mr. Rubin testified that if anything, the brown gloves Mr. Simpson was wearing in December of 1993 appear to be somewhat bigger in the photographs than the brown gloves in 1991?

# 11 MS. CLARK:

Objection. That misstates the testimony.

# 12 THE COURT:

Sustained. Rephrase the question.

# 13 MR. NEUFELD:

Well, sir, did you have a chance to actually look at those photos yourself?

PROF. MACDONELL: Yes, I have.

# 14 MR. NEUFELD:

And would it be fair to say that from the photographs, there is no evidence of any visible shrinking of those gloves?

# 15 MS. CLARK:

Objection. That calls for speculation.

# 16 THE COURT:

Sustained. Foundation.

# 17 MR. NEUFELD:

Now, did you conduct an experiment to determine whether or not smearing Aris leather light extra large gloves with a considerable amount of blood would cause 15 percent shrinkage?

PROF. MACDONELL: Yes, I did.

KEY QUOTE

# 18 MR. NEUFELD:

And did you also conduct an experiment to determine the approximate drying times of gloves that have been heavily smeared with blood?

PROF. MACDONELL: Yes.

# 19 MS. CLARK:

Objection. That is beyond the scope.

# 20 THE COURT:

Sustained. Sustained. Drying times. Proceed.

# 21 MR. NEUFELD:

Okay. Your Honor--

# 22 THE COURT:

Shrinkage. No. Shrinkage.

KEY QUOTE

# 23 MR. NEUFELD:

May I please have a sidebar? I think there's a distinction. I just want to make it at sidebar if I may.

# 24 THE COURT:

I thought we made this distinction very clear the last time we talked about this.

KEY QUOTE

# 25 MR. NEUFELD:

I think there's a slight difference, if I may.

# 26 THE COURT:

With the court reporter.

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Peter Neufeld

did you conduct an experiment to determine whether or not smearing Aris leather light extra large gloves with a considerable amount of blood would cause 15 percent shrinkage?

The core of MacDonell's defense testimony — directly targeting Rubin's 15% shrinkage claim by testing it empirically.

Lance A. Ito

I thought we made this distinction very clear the last time we talked about this.

Reveals prior sidebar or in-chambers discussion limiting the scope of MacDonell's testimony, suggesting the defense is pushing against already-settled boundaries.

Prof. MacDonell

I don't recall it in June. I wasn't here in June. I was in Alaska.

Incidental but establishes MacDonell was not present for earlier glove testimony and his familiarity is limited — a minor credibility nuance.

Lance A. Ito

Shrinkage. No. Shrinkage.

Ito explicitly narrows the permitted scope of testimony to shrinkage only, cutting off drying time evidence mid-examination.

Evidence (2)

Informal

Photographs of O.J. Simpson wearing brown gloves at NFL football games, December 1993

discussed — Neufeld attempts to draw conclusion from them, objection sustained

Informal

Aris leather light extra large gloves (Rockingham and Bundy gloves), alleged to be 15% smaller than new standard

discussed as basis for MacDonell's shrinkage experiment

Notable Exchanges (2)

Lance A. Ito•Prof. MacDonell

Ito interrupts to instruct MacDonell to let Neufeld finish his question before answering, for the court reporter's benefit.

firm but polite

Peter Neufeld•Lance A. Ito

After drying-time testimony is cut off as beyond scope, Neufeld requests a sidebar claiming there is a meaningful distinction. Ito pushes back, referencing a prior discussion where the issue was already settled.

strategic

Light Moments (1)

Prof. MacDonell

MacDonell volunteers unprompted that he was in Alaska in June, explaining why he didn't watch Rubin's earlier testimony.

Objections

3 objections (3 sustained, 0 overruled)

Proceeding 7725 • 26 utterances • Defense witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103