Let's have it quiet in the courtroom, please. All right. Back on the record in the Simpson matter. The Defendant is again present before the Court with counsel, Mr. Shapiro, Mr. Cochran, Mr. Blasier, Mr. Scheck, Mr. Neufeld, People represented by Mr. Darden and Mr. Goldberg. The jury is not present. Counsel, anything we need to take up before we proceed with our next witness? Mr. Goldberg, my recollection is that you had some exhibits to mark.
Yes. I wanted to mark the printout of the picture of the tube, I think it's 231, your Honor, and also the little disposable plastic pipette. Maybe we could mark this as part of the 163 series, the bag of items.
No. I think, because it will appear they're out of logical order, I would suggest that we give that a new and separate number.
Your Honor, the next witness is the tow truck driver. He's being transported here by D.A. Investigators. They have radioed us and said that they should be here 10 minutes after 9:00.
I informed the clerk as soon as I found out. Apparently he was here this morning. He had left the document, the impound documents, and they had taken him back to Santa Monica to pick up the documents and he's on his way back now.
Your Honor, I have arranged with Mr. Hodgman to have Dr. Michael Baden and Dr. Barbara Wolf here today. They are presently--actually Dr. Baden is testifying next door for the Prosecution in another case. And the purpose of their visit for us is to get microscopic slides of tissue from the autopsy of both decedents. This has been agreed to by both sides. The only issue that has come up now is the cost of those slides. We are informed that the standard procedure is for the County Coroner to do those slides and they are provided at no cost to the Defense. In this case, the Coroner's office did not do any slides and they are now allowing us to do the slides but at a cost of $85 per slide. We understand that the true cost for such slides in laboratories is four to five dollars. I tried to reach Mr. Hodgman on Friday and he had a family emergency and was unable to return my call, although we did get word back from someone else in the District Attorney's office. We need the Court's guidance. Those slides are going to be done this morning, but we--as I understand, there are going to be numerous slides necessary. And I don't know the exact amount, but we would like to see if the Court can give us some assistance in providing these at a reasonable cost and not at an inflated cost that is artificially set by the Coroner.
No, I don't. And Mr. Hodgman is upstairs in his office. If he's listening, perhaps he can come down and speak to Mr. Shapiro while we wait for Mr. Douroux and they can settle the matter if at all possible.
Yes, your Honor. I filed a letter with the Court and counsel this morning. I followed up on your suggestion based on Mr. Blasier's hypothetical and good faith basis for his questions about EDTA on Prosecution evidence. As you recall, Mr. Blasier alleged that their experts have reviewed our reports, which is all they could have done because they never tested any of the samples from the gate or the sock for the presence of EDTA. And I requested Mr.--of Mr. Cochran orally and now I've done it in writing--there are no such witnesses on the Defense witness list who are qualified in the field of gc/ms/ms, which is the form of testing that would have to be done. So it appears that the Defense has violated the Court's discovery order by--at a minimum, based on Mr. Blasier's offer of proof, that their experts have reviewed our work and come to contrary conclusions. Our experts, the FBI, has determined that there is no EDTA on 117 or 13-A1. So Mr. Blasier's offer of proof was that their experts have reviewed that material--
Well, Mr. Harmon, forgive me for interrupting you, but your request was for a hearing on this matter on Wednesday.
We had time. I thought I'd bring it up, but things are getting interesting, your Honor.
Just briefly. On the magnetic strips that we used on the Defense blood vial chart, I believe those probably should be marked as another exhibit as well.
However, my recollection is that Mr. Fairtlough took some type of digital photograph of that.
He apparently did to preserve the way the chart looked once it was completed. Is it possible for us to mark both the magnetic strips and the photograph that was taken of the chart after it was finished?
I would say the photograph itself is what we ought to use rather than the strips themselves.
Well, unfortunately the resolution on the photograph doesn't appear to be high enough to read all of the markings on it clearly.
All right. Well, I would suggest then at a time that the Court is in recess, that that chart be put back together in that matter and that a still photograph by someone from the District Attorney's photo lab be substituted for the digital photograph rather than the mag--because the magnetic strips themselves without something to stick them on are useless as an exhibit.
Well, let's make it 233, and then we'll--if hearing no objection from the Defense, we'll substitute a real--a photograph with conventional photography when that becomes available.
We have a letter that we prepared for the Court requesting sanctions against Mr. Goldberg for the series of improper questions that he asked on Thursday and Friday. We're asking for a curative instruction as well as sanctions and we would like to present that letter to the Court now for the Court's consideration. I believe you have it.
Yes, I do. I have not had the opportunity to read it since it was just handed to me. All right. We'll take it--since it deals with EDTA as well, we'll take that up Wednesday afternoon. Mr. Scheck.
One more housekeeping matter. I've asked Mr. Harmon since Thursday to inform us of the status of the combination of samples from the Bronco that was being tested by DOJ, whether that RFLP analysis had started. As I indicated to the Court, I was told as of Monday of last week, it hadn't, and I think that creates an issue to be resolved.
Well, obviously, if that testing has not even begun yet, then there are no results to report. So there's nothing to be produced in Court. So I don't see any tremendous urgency to do it this week and we have a plethora of other issues to deal with Wednesday.
I understand. My only concern is, before the witness from the Department of Justice testifies about results from the Bronco, which are going to be affected by the tests that they proposed to do seven weeks ago, that they did not begin after they obtained permission of the Court to do so, which I would submit on its face is deliberate, that we have to have some resolution as to--
Well, first of all, Mr. Harmon hasn't informed us as to what the status of the testing is. I want to be careful in my representations since my information is a bit old. But my suggestion is that we resolve that issue before Mr. Sims testifies from the Department of Justice, which could be at the end of this week or the beginning of next week.
Mr. Darden, do you have any information about that or do you want to defer to Mr. Harmon?
It's ongoing. And Dr. Blake has open door--the invisible but ubiquitous Blake is there more than I am, so I'm not sure. He's never been denied access to any information. I can tell you, Mr. Sims is not doing that work because he's down here now. So nothing's going on right now. But I--you know, I'd rather--if there's a specific legal issue involved in it, I would be happy to respond to a legal issue. But in terms of where the testing is, Dr. Blake can call up there any time and be precise. But it hasn't been completed obviously.
All right. Well, Mr. Harmon, when do you antici--after Dr. Cotton testifies, who do you anticipate will be after Dr. Cotton?
Mr. Sims. So he's here until--so wherever things were left when he left work on Friday, that's where they are.
All right. Then Friday afternoon, 1:30, we'll take this up. Mrs. Robertson, would you note that, remind me to cancel my dentist appointment again. All right. Mr. Darden, any word on the whereabouts of your witness?
Why don't we check that. We've been on the record 12 minutes. We've been accused of misconduct twice. We're setting a record pace at this point, your Honor.
Yeah, one every six minutes. Besides, Miss Martinez' birthday was this--where did she go? There she is. Her birthday was this weekend.
Good morning, sir. There was some dispute that Mr. Shapiro raised concerning cost of production of autopsy slides from the Coroner's office. Do you have any information about that?
Yes. Very well. I'm not so sure that it can be characterized as a dispute. It's simply the policy and protocol of the Coroner's office of which I informed Mr. Shapiro by letter last week, and I received a phone message Friday indicating Mr. Shapiro wanted to try and work something out in that regard. But I don't control that department and that's between the Coroner's office and the Defense. I understand Drs. Baden and Wolf are over there today. I had spoken to Dr. Wolf Friday, Friday morning just to make sure she had the proper information with regard to the arrangements as well as the cost procedures, and she did not raise any objection at that time. Mr. Shapiro's call did come in after that. So it's something over which I really have no control, your Honor.
All right. Well, Mr. Shapiro has raised the issue. Mr. Shapiro, I think the burden is on your shoulders at this point to indicate that those costs are somehow out of the ordinary or unlike those that are assessed to other individuals seeking this information.
Your Honor, I can just relate what has been related to me by our experts, and that is that in the normal course, these are provided for at no cost whatsoever and that the medical costs and laboratory costs that are involved are between four and five dollars a slide. In addition, since Mr. Hodgman is here, in his letter, they indicated that the approximate cost--and I don't have the figures in front of me--of Dr. Lakshsmanan and Dr. Golden to watch our experts do this is approximately $500 an hour for us, to have them watch us do what they should have done. And we just think this is a violation of due process. We have no choice but to go ahead with it because the doctors are here, but we would ask the Court to intervene and to conduct a hearing regarding the real fair cost of this and that we should not be gouged because it's being done by the Defense and not by the Prosecution.
All right. About the only thing I can suggest, Mr. Shapiro, is if you want to file a motion to that effect, you're welcome to do so. It would be my inclination to--since it would involve a Coroner's policy, which would apply not only to this case, but other cases, is then ask the supervising Judge, Judge Bascue to set the matter for a hearing since it would be a system-wide impact. So some other Judge should probably hear that issue and not take our time with that.
Yes, your Honor. And it would indeed be a system-wide impact because I am informed that this policy applies across the board for all defendants, that there is nothing unusual that's being done in this case, that there is no denial of due process. This is simply the normal protocol and usual procedure of the Coroner's office. So nothing special is being done for the Defendant in this case.
That's no fun. Wait until the Defense case, your Honor. He is on the "s" level. There's only one elevator operating from the "s" level.
Your Honor, there is one additional thing I want to add for the record so the record is clear. In addition, they want a copy of our slides that we are doing and they want to charge us $85 per slide that we are doing to turn over to them because they didn't do it.
Sounds like a good business to me. All right. We'll--if you want to file a formal motion, we'll look into it.
KEY QUOTEWell, the problem is, if I leave, then the audience has to be cleared. Then we have to go through all of that rigmarole each and every time. So I'd just as soon stay here upon your representation that that person will be here in two or three minutes.
If I could have 60 minutes outside with Defense counsel so that I can speak to Mr. Douroux.
Depends on what the issues are here. All right. Which of the tow truck drivers is this?
All right. Deputy Smith, would you ask the lawyers to step in with their witness, please.
Deputy Magnera, let's have the jurors, please. Mr. Darden, who is going to be handling the next witness for the People?
All right. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Please be seated. Let the record reflect that we've now been rejoined by all the members of our jury panel. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
THE JURY: Good morning.
We've been on the record 12 minutes. We've been accused of misconduct twice. We're setting a record pace at this point, your Honor.
Once every six minutes.
We should not be gouged because it's being done by the Defense and not by the Prosecution.
Sounds like a good business to me.
Before the witness from the Department of Justice testifies about results from the Bronco, which are going to be affected by the tests that they proposed to do seven weeks ago, that they did not begin after they obtained permission of the Court to do so, which I would submit on its face is deliberate.