Direct examination of Gregory Matheson (afternoon, part 4)

📄 Direct examination of Gregory Matheson (afternoon, part 4) — Monday, May 1, 1995

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C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\MAY\1\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-GREGORY-.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 64 of 167

◀ Sidebar: exhibit visibility Exhibits and trial procedures ▶

Witness: Gregory Matheson
Examiner: Hank Goldberg
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Monday, May 1, 1995 • Utterances: 206

Goldberg continued direct examination of LAPD criminalist Gregory Matheson, walking through several large summary boards (People's 177, parts c and d) documenting chain of custody and evidence disposition for blood exemplars and other items. Matheson identified minor clerical errors in the boards—missing icons for item 51 and a wrong date for item 293—and the court permitted corrections. The session ended early when defense counsel requested to approach regarding a new exhibit (People's 209), prompting Ito to dismiss the jury for the day.

# 1 (The following proceedings were held in open Court:)

# 2 THE COURT:

Mr. Fairtlough, do you want to join us, please.

# 3 (Brief pause.)

# 4 THE COURT:

All right. We need to angle the easel so that Mr. Simpson can see the exhibit. He would like to see these things. So can you put it back in the standard position and let's see how much we can get out of that.

# 5 MR. FAIRTLOUGH:

What I can do is raise it up so that if I position it I can raise the easel up but he might miss the bottom portion from where he is sitting, but he should be able to catch most of it from the top.

# 6 THE COURT:

Let's try that.

# 7 (The following proceedings were held in open Court:)

# 8 (Brief pause.)

# 9 THE COURT:

All right. Juror no. 1, is that too extreme for you to see? Well, we are sort of defeating our purpose here. Let's put it back at a straight ninety degree and then we will proceed at that point. We may have to move some of those exhibits from out back there so we can get a little more depth here. All right. Mr. Goldberg.

# 10 MR. GOLDBERG:

I only have about two minutes of questions on this one.

# 11 MR. GOLDBERG:

I now direct your attention to the board that has 25 through 44 on it. Did you go through this same verification procedure on this board that you had previously discussed?

# 12 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, I did.

# 13 MR. GOLDBERG:

Okay. And was the information contained on that board true and correct?

# 14 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, it was.

# 15 MR. GOLDBERG:

I see Mr. Fairtlough has disappeared.

# 16 (Brief pause.)

# 17 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

# 18 THE COURT:

All right. Mr. Goldberg, are you ready to proceed to the next chart?

# 19 MR. GOLDBERG:

Yes.

# 20 THE COURT:

All right. Mr. Fairtlough, rather than move all those right now, we will do that later. Let's move on to the next chart.

# 21 (Brief pause.)

# 22 MR. GOLDBERG:

Now, this is the one that has items 45 through 57. Mr. Matheson, on this particular chart did you notice something in reviewing it that you wanted changed?

# 23 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, I did.

# 24 MR. BLASIER:

Your Honor, could we have the exhibit number?

# 25 MR. GOLDBERG:

Well, these are all 177.

# 26 THE COURT:

177, this is items--we have it marked by items, item numbers.

# 27 MR. GOLDBERG:

We may have put a letter. It may be c.

# 28 THE COURT:

All right.

# 29 MR. GOLDBERG:

But it has 45 through 57.

# 30 THE COURT:

Noted. Thank you. Proceed.

# 31 MR. GOLDBERG:

Thank you.

# 32 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, I did.

# 33 MR. GOLDBERG:

Which was that?

# 34 MR. MATHESON:

That was in the case of item no. 51 under "DOJ 9/26/94," the icons for swatch and control had been omitted.

# 35 MR. GOLDBERG:

We have some icons here. Maybe with the Court's permission we could just put them on.

# 36 MR. GOLDBERG:

That is as to 9/26/94?

# 37 MR. MATHESON:

That's correct.

# 38 THE COURT:

Which item was this?

# 39 MR. MATHESON:

Item no. 51.

# 40 THE COURT:

51. All right.

# 41 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

# 42 MR. GOLDBERG:

So a stain and control icon?

# 43 MR. MATHESON:

That's correct.

# 44 (Brief pause.)

# 45 MR. GOLDBERG:

While he is doing that maybe I--well, I will just wait.

# 46 (Brief pause.)

# 47 MR. GOLDBERG:

Other than that, Mr. Matheson, did this board correctly state the information that was contained in the business record that you have previously described?

# 48 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, it did.

# 49 MR. GOLDBERG:

All right. Thanks. Let's go on to d.

# 50 (Brief pause.)

# 51 THE COURT:

And Mr. Goldberg, these are which items?

# 52 MR. GOLDBERG:

177, I believe this should be d, and this is item 59 through 82.

# 53 MR. GOLDBERG:

Now, with respect to item no. 59, Mr. Matheson, did you also take a look at some documents, as you previously testified when we were asking you about item 17, in order to verify the creation of the Fitzco card under "Nicole Brown blood exemplar," if you understood that question?

# 54 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, I did.

# 55 MR. GOLDBERG:

All right. Did you do that?

# 56 MR. MATHESON:

Yes.

# 57 MR. GOLDBERG:

And when did it indicate that the swatches were made from item no. 59?

# 58 MR. MATHESON:

On June.

# 59 MR. BLASIER:

Objection, no foundation.

# 60 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 61 MR. GOLDBERG:

What documents did you look at?

# 62 MR. MATHESON:

It was the same document mentioned before, prepared by Mr. Yamauchi, describing the swatching of the items.

# 63 MR. GOLDBERG:

That is prepared in the same way that you previously testified when I was asking you about 17?

# 64 MR. MATHESON:

That's correct.

# 65 MR. GOLDBERG:

And when did that document indicate that the swatches were prepared from 59?

# 66 MR. BLASIER:

Objection, improper foundation.

# 67 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 68 MR. GOLDBERG:

Well, this is done in the ordinary course of business?

# 69 MR. MATHESON:

Yes.

# 70 MR. GOLDBERG:

And is the document that you looked at prepared contemporaneously with the swatching?

# 71 MR. MATHESON:

Yes.

# 72 MR. GOLDBERG:

Okay. This is a standard form that is used in the lab?

# 73 MR. MATHESON:

Well, we don't have a standard form to just--just to describe the production of these swatches. He used one of the ones I mentioned earlier as a note page.

# 74 MR. GOLDBERG:

Okay. But are those items that you use, the analysts use to describe what they are doing and when they are creating a particular piece of evidence?

# 75 MR. MATHESON:

Yes.

# 76 MR. GOLDBERG:

And when did that indicate that the Nicole Simpson blood exemplar was created?

# 77 MR. BLASIER:

Objection, no foundation.

# 78 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 79 MR. GOLDBERG:

May we approach?

# 80 THE COURT:

No. Proceed.

# 81 MR. GOLDBERG:

Counsel hasn't specified what element he is saying is missing.

# 82 THE COURT:

He doesn't have to. It is missing. Proceed.

KEY QUOTE

# 83 MR. GOLDBERG:

Okay. You looked at a document; is that correct?

# 84 MR. MATHESON:

Yes.

# 85 MR. GOLDBERG:

Okay. And that document was prepared by who?

# 86 MR. MATHESON:

Mr. Yamauchi.

# 87 MR. GOLDBERG:

And this is a document that is prepared at or near the time that the swatch is created?

# 88 MR. BLASIER:

Objection, no foundation.

# 89 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 90 MR. MATHESON:

That's correct.

# 91 MR. GOLDBERG:

And this is a document that is used by serologists when they are preparing swatches?

# 92 MR. MATHESON:

Yes.

# 93 MR. GOLDBERG:

And did you check that document against the item that is referenced as the Nicole Simpson blood exemplar?

# 94 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, I did.

# 95 MR. GOLDBERG:

And did it reflect--does this accurately reflect the information on that document?

# 96 MR. BLASIER:

Objection, no foundation, calls for hearsay.

# 97 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 98 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, it does.

# 99 MR. GOLDBERG:

All right. And when did it indicate that that swatch was created.

# 100 MR. BLASIER:

Objection, no foundation.

# 101 THE COURT:

Sustained. We are missing item d, counsel.

# 102 MR. GOLDBERG:

What?

# 103 THE COURT:

We are missing item d.

# 104 MR. GOLDBERG:

Well, is this done in a manner that is trustworthy?

# 105 MR. BLASIER:

Okay.

# 106 THE COURT:

Sustained. Calls for a conclusion. He has to describe the manner in which it is repaired.

# 107 MR. GOLDBERG:

He just did that.

# 108 THE COURT:

That indicates its trustworthiness.

# 109 MR. GOLDBERG:

Mr. Matheson, when does the analyst actually write down the information?

# 110 MR. BLASIER:

Objection, irrelevant.

# 111 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 112 MR. MATHESON:

As they are performing the work they are preparing note pages describing the actions that were taken.

# 113 MR. GOLDBERG:

And what do they describe?

# 114 MR. BLASIER:

Objection, calls for hearsay.

# 115 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 116 MR. MATHESON:

That swatches were prepared of particular items on a particular date.

KEY QUOTE

# 117 MR. GOLDBERG:

And what did that--when did that item--when was that item prepared, according to this document?

# 118 MR. BLASIER:

Objection.

# 119 THE COURT:

Overruled at this point.

# 120 MR. MATHESON:

June 15, 1994.

# 121 MR. GOLDBERG:

Okay. Now did you go through the same process with respect to the Ronald Goldman blood exemplar?

# 122 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, I did.

# 123 MR. GOLDBERG:

And is the information contained there accurate?

# 124 MR. BLASIER:

Objection, no foundation.

# 125 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 126 MR. GOLDBERG:

Do you want to go through this all over again?

# 127 THE COURT:

There is an objection, counsel. It is your burden. Proceed.

# 128 MR. GOLDBERG:

Okay.

# 129 THE COURT:

What document.

# 130 MR. GOLDBERG:

What type of document did you look at in order to verify the information under "Ronald Goldman blood exemplar"?

# 131 MR. MATHESON:

I believe it was an item description note.

# 132 MR. GOLDBERG:

Was that the same type that you just testified to when you were talking about 59?

# 133 MR. MATHESON:

I believe it was the exact same document.

# 134 MR. GOLDBERG:

Okay. And what did that document indicate in terms of when the swatch entitled "Ronald Goldman blood exemplar" was created?

# 135 MR. BLASIER:

Objection, hearsay.

# 136 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 137 MR. MATHESON:

That it was prepared on June 15, 1994.

KEY QUOTE

# 138 MR. GOLDBERG:

And did it come--did the swatch come from the vial no. 60?

# 139 MR. BLASIER:

Objection, no foundation.

# 140 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 141 MR. GOLDBERG:

According to the document?

# 142 MR. BLASIER:

Objection based on hearsay and no foundation.

# 143 THE COURT:

Overruled. Overruled.

# 144 MR. MATHESON:

According to the document the swatch was made from the whole blood vial.

# 145 MR. GOLDBERG:

And is that the same answer that you give with respect to the Nicole Simpson blood exemplar?

# 146 MR. MATHESON:

Yes.

# 147 MR. GOLDBERG:

Does this board accurately indicate when items from the swatches were mailed out and to whom?

# 148 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, it does.

# 149 MR. GOLDBERG:

Now, with respect to item no. 81, did you look at the photograph in the cell under "Collected LAPD" to determine whether you could recognize the packaging?

# 150 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, I did.

# 151 MR. GOLDBERG:

And is that the shirt from which you took certain cuttings that you testified to earlier this afternoon?

# 152 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, that's correct.

# 153 MR. GOLDBERG:

Where are those indicated on this board?

# 154 MR. MATHESON:

The cuttings that I made are indicated in the next cell down opposite 81-a through h cuttings.

# 155 MR. GOLDBERG:

And where says "October 30, `94, Greg Matheson"?

# 156 MR. MATHESON:

That's correct?

# 157 MR. GOLDBERG:

So that is when you took cuttings from item 81?

# 158 MR. MATHESON:

Yes.

# 159 MR. GOLDBERG:

And does the cell under "DOJ" that says "1/13/95" indicate when that was mailed out?

# 160 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, it does.

# 161 MR. GOLDBERG:

Now, with respect to item no. 82, what is that?

# 162 MR. MATHESON:

When samples are collected from the Coroner's office they prepare both a liquid sample and a swatch of blood. That is the outside packaging or the envelope that contains the swatch that was prepared at the Coroner's office marked as Nicole Brown's reference.

# 163 MR. GOLDBERG:

So that is not done, that particular swatch is not done by SID, it is done by the Coroner's people?

# 164 MR. MATHESON:

That's correct.

# 165 MR. GOLDBERG:

And does the cell under "DOJ" under "9/7/94" indicate when that was sent out?

# 166 MR. MATHESON:

Yes.

# 167 MR. GOLDBERG:

Thank you. Let's take a look at the next board. This is the final.

# 168 (Brief pause.)

# 169 MR. GOLDBERG:

Now, Mr. Matheson on this board did you also find something that you wanted to change?

# 170 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, I did.

# 171 MR. GOLDBERG:

What was that?

# 172 MR. MATHESON:

That on this cell next to where it says "293, fibers and control," it has a date of "8/26/94" and then "Matheson" as to when that was collected and the actual date on that was 9/1/94.

# 173 MR. GOLDBERG:

Was this an item that also came from this object in the Bronco that was collected from the Bronco?

# 174 MR. MATHESON:

That's correct. The item was not in the Bronco when I did my collection.

KEY QUOTE

# 175 MR. GOLDBERG:

What was it that you took it from?

# 176 MR. MATHESON:

I believe that was a section of the floorboard or floor carpeting.

# 177 MR. GOLDBERG:

Okay. That had been collected by someone else?

# 178 MR. MATHESON:

The carpeting had, that's correct.

# 179 MR. GOLDBERG:

Right. And what did you do? What technique did you use to collect 293?

# 180 MR. MATHESON:

Just cut portions of the fibers away from the carpeting and placing them in a bindle, closing the bindle up and then making a control cutting and placing that in another bindle and putting it in a coin envelope.

# 181 MR. GOLDBERG:

So this was not the cloth swatch technique?

# 182 MR. MATHESON:

That's correct.

# 183 MR. GOLDBERG:

And the control was a cloth swatch or just another piece of carpet?

# 184 MR. MATHESON:

It would be more cuttings of fibers.

# 185 MR. GOLDBERG:

So where did you cut from in order to get the control?

# 186 MR. MATHESON:

Nearer to the stain but in an area that did not appear to be stained.

# 187 MR. GOLDBERG:

All right. Now, with respect to item no. 84 and 85, let's start from 80--with 84. Do you recognize what is depicted in that item?

# 188 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, I do.

# 189 MR. GOLDBERG:

And what is that?

# 190 MR. MATHESON:

Item no. 84 is a L.A. County Coroner's envelope used to store collected fingernail scrapings or fingernail clippings and/or scrapings.

# 191 MR. GOLDBERG:

Did you do some testing on 84?

# 192 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, I did.

# 193 MR. GOLDBERG:

So this was something that was not collected by SID people?

# 194 MR. MATHESON:

That's correct.

# 195 MR. GOLDBERG:

And with respect to the other items on this chart--and this chart contains 84 through 305 for the record--did you verify the correctness of the information contained on this chart?

# 196 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, I did.

# 197 MR. GOLDBERG:

And perhaps with the Court's permission later on we could change the 8/26 date to 9/1?

# 198 THE COURT:

Yes.

# 199 MR. GOLDBERG:

Thank you.

# 200 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

# 201 MR. GOLDBERG:

Next I would like to mark another exhibit that is entitled "Additional LAPD evidence disposition" board as 209.

# 202 (Peo's 209 for id = posterboard)

# 203 MR. BLASIER:

Okay. May we approach?

# 204 THE COURT:

Yes, please. Tell you what, ladies and gentlemen, I need to--why don't you turn that around, Mr. Fairtlough. All right. All right. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm going to need to talk to counsel about this next exhibit. Probably take us more than five minutes, so I'm going to call it quits as far as you are concerned for the day. I have a few other matters I need to talk to the lawyers about. Please remember all of my admonitions. Do not discuss the case among yourselves, don't form any opinions about the case, don't conduct any deliberations until the matter has been submitted to you, do not allow anybody to communicate with you with regard to the case. And we will see you tomorrow morning at nine o'clock. All right. As far as the jury is concerned, we will stand in recess. And Mr. Matheson, you may step down. You are ordered to return 8:45 tomorrow morning.

# 205 MR. MATHESON:

Thank you.

# 206 THE COURT:

All right. I will see counsel as soon as the jury has cleared.

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Gregory Matheson

That swatches were prepared of particular items on a particular date.

Establishes the evidentiary foundation for Yamauchi's notes as business records, enabling dates of Nicole Simpson and Ronald Goldman blood exemplar creation to come in.

Gregory Matheson

June 15, 1994.

Pins the creation date of both the Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman blood exemplars — critical for chain-of-custody timeline.

Lance A. Ito

He doesn't have to. It is missing. Proceed.

Ito curtly overrules Goldberg's complaint that Blasier hadn't specified which foundation element was missing, signaling impatience with the prosecution's foundational technique.

Gregory Matheson

The item was not in the Bronco when I did my collection.

Clarifies that item 293 (carpet fibers) had already been removed from the Bronco before Matheson's collection — important for chain-of-custody accuracy.

Evidence (9)

People's 177-c

Summary board covering evidence items 45 through 57, including blood exemplar swatching records

discussed, minor correction added (missing swatch/control icons for item 51)

People's 177-d

Summary board covering evidence items 59 through 82, including Nicole Brown and Ronald Goldman blood exemplars and Coroner samples

discussed, foundational testimony elicited for dates and chain of custody

People's 177 (final board)

Summary board covering items 84 through 305, including Bronco carpet fiber item 293 and Coroner fingernail scrapings

discussed, date correction noted (8/26/94 changed to 9/1/94 for item 293)

People's 209

Posterboard titled 'Additional LAPD evidence disposition'

marked for identification; sidebar requested by defense before presentation to jury

Informal

Yamauchi's note pages describing swatching of items 59 and 60 (Nicole Brown and Ronald Goldman blood exemplars), created June 15, 1994

discussed as foundation for board entries

Informal

Item 81 — shirt from which Matheson took cuttings (81-a through h) on October 30, 1994

discussed, confirmed as item Matheson testified to cutting

+ 3 more

Notable Exchanges (3)

Hank Goldberg•Lance A. Ito•Robert Blasier

Goldberg struggled repeatedly to lay foundation for Yamauchi's note pages as business records. Blasier sustained a string of foundation/hearsay objections, and Ito refused a sidebar, instead instructing Goldberg to simply describe the document's preparation more carefully. Goldberg expressed mild frustration ('Do you want to go through this all over again?').

tense/procedural

Lance A. Ito•Hank Goldberg

When Goldberg argued Blasier hadn't specified which element of foundation was missing, Ito flatly responded 'He doesn't have to. It is missing. Proceed.' — shutting down the argument immediately.

sharp

Robert Blasier•Lance A. Ito

Defense requested a sidebar when People's 209 was introduced, and Ito used the occasion to dismiss the jury for the day rather than make them wait.

strategic

Light Moments (1)

Hank Goldberg

Goldberg noted mid-examination that his co-counsel had vanished: 'I see Mr. Fairtlough has disappeared.'

Objections

18 objections (8 sustained, 7 overruled)

Proceeding 5864 • 206 utterances • Prosecution witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103