Cochran uses crime scene videotape to challenge the integrity of the Bundy Avenue investigation, showing criminalist Dennis Fung entering the Goldman body area without gloves and apparently carrying the Rockingham glove, a cup being held near the scene in violation of protocol, and the photographer Rokahr independently opening a mailbox. Cochran also presses Lange on the absence of photographs of shoeprints in the dirt near Goldman's body, the uninvestigated knit cap at Nicole's house, and a children's overheard phone call statement — finishing with a push to play OJ's recorded interview that the prosecution objected to as beyond the scope of redirect.
# 1 MR. COCHRAN: PROCEED, YOUR HONOR?
# 2 THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN.
# 3 MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU.
# 4 Q: I WANT TO HAVE YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THIS PORTION OF THIS VIDEO. I BELIEVE YOU HAVE SEEN THIS BEFORE.
# 5 (AT 2:44 P.M., DEFENSE EXHIBIT 1043, A VIDEOTAPE, WAS PLAYED.) # 6 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, THAT GENTLEMAN THERE WITH THE -- STOP IT RIGHT THERE. THE MAN WHO IS COMING OUT OF AN AREA THAT YOU JUST WENT INTO, WHO IS THAT?
# 8 Q: IS THAT THE CRIMINALIST WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT?
# 10 Q: AND HE HAS A BAG IN HIS RIGHT HAND WITH NO GLOVE ON THAT HAND. DO YOU SEE THAT?
# 12 Q: AND THAT IS AN AREA THAT YOU JUST CAME -- THAT YOU JUST WENT INTO RIGHT?
# 14 Q: IS THAT THE AREA OVER WHEREIN -- THE JURY WOULD BE FAMILIAR, THE AREA WHERE MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY WAS FOUND?
# 16 Q: IS THAT THE AREA WHERE -- STRIKE THAT. MR. -- MR. FUNG IS COMING OUT OF THAT AREA; IS THAT CORRECT? IS HE ABOUT TO STEP OVER MISS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON'S BODY AT THAT POINT?
# 17 (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.) # 19 A: I CAN'T TELL WHETHER THE BODY HAS BEEN MOVED OUT ON THE WALKWAY AT THAT POINT OR NOT.
# 20 Q: DID YOU SEE THE MAN IN THE BLUE -- AND PERHAPS IT MAY BE THE OTHER BODY. DO YOU SEE THE PLAN IN THE BLUE BENT OVER, MR. JACOBO FROM CORONER'S OFFICE?
# 22 Q: DO YOU RECALL HIM WHEN YOU SAW HIM THERE IN THAT AREA WORKING IN THE AREA OF THE WALKWAY, HE WAS WORKING WITH BODIES WHEN HE WAS IN THAT LOCATION?
# 23 A: YES, BUT I CAN'T TELL WHICH BODY IS HERE.
# 24 Q: I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT APPARENTLY ONE OF THE BODIES IS; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 25 A: YES, IT WOULD APPEAR THAT WAY.
# 26 MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, WE PRINTED OUT THIS PARTICULAR AREA EARLIER AND IF -- I ASK THE COURT TO ALLOW ME TO MARK THAT.
# 28 MR. COCHRAN: I HAVE SHOWN IT TO COUNSEL.
# 29 (DEFT'S 1043-A FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH) # 30 THE COURT: EXCUSE ME.
# 32 THE COURT: THIS IS COUNTER 0:18:18:01.
# 33 MR. COCHRAN: ON THE PHOTOGRAPH, 07, YOUR HONOR.
# 34 THE COURT: THAT IS IN HUNDREDS OF SECONDS. SO LET'S TAKE IT TO 7. 01:18:18:07.
# 35 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: MR. LANGE, WHAT DOES MR. FUNG HAVE IN HIS HAND, THAT BAG THERE?
# 36 A: I BELIEVE THAT IS VERY POSSIBLY THE RIGHT-HAND GLOVE FROM ROCKINGHAM.
KEY QUOTE # 37 Q: WELL, HE HAD TAKEN THE RIGHT-HAND GLOVE FROM ROCKINGHAM INTO THE AREA WHERE MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY WAS AND WHERE THIS LEFT-LAND GLOVE WAS; IS THAT RIGHT?
# 38 A: I HAD ASKED HIM TO LOOK AT THE GLOVE --
# 39 Q: YOU CAN ANSWER THAT YES OR NO, SIR. HAD HE TAKEN THE GLOVE IN THERE?
# 40 A: UNLESS I'M MISTAKEN, THIS IS VERY POSSIBLY THE TIME THAT HE BROUGHT THE GLOVE OVER TO ME TO LOOK AT, YES.
# 41 Q: SO THE ANSWER IS YES, HE HAD TAKEN THE GLOVE INSIDE THAT AREA?
# 42 A: WELL, AGAIN I AM TRYING TO BE AS ACCURATE AS I CAN. I MAY BE MISTAKEN, BUT I HAD ASKED MR. FUNG IF I COULD LOOK AT THE GLOVE FROM ROCKINGHAM. HE BROUGHT IT OVER TO ME AND I BELIEVE THAT THIS VERY POSSIBLY MAY DEPICT THAT. I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE.
# 43 Q: THIS MORNING WHEN I ASKED YOU, DIDN'T YOU TELL US -- WELL, STRIKE THAT. IS IT YOUR RECOLLECTION NOW THAT YOU AS YOU SIT HERE THAT YOU HAD LOOKED AT THE GLOVE IN THE BAG AT THIS POINT, THE POINT THAT SHOWS ON THE COUNTER?
# 44 A: I DON'T BELIEVE I DID. I BELIEVE I LOOKED IN THE BAG AT THE EVIDENCE TRUCK AFTER HE WALKED OUT WITH IT, IF THIS IN FACT IS THAT TIME.
# 45 Q: WHAT HAS HE DONE JUST BEFORE THIS, IF YOU KNOW, WITH THAT BAG?
# 46 A: I DON'T BELIEVE HE DID ANYTHING. IF IN FACT THIS IS THE INCIDENT DEPICTED HERE WITH THE GLOVE AND THE BAG, HE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WITH IT.
# 47 Q: WHAT WAS HE DOING OVER IN THE AREA OF MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY?
# 48 A: AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW IF MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY IS BACK THERE OR NOT AT THIS POINT BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW WHICH BODY IS OUT ON THE WALKWAY. I HAVE NO IDEA.
# 49 Q: ALL RIGHT. LET'S CONTINUE ON WITH THE VIDEO.
# 50 (THE VIDEOTAPE CONTINUES PLAYING.) # 51 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: HE APPARENTLY STEPPED OVER SOMETHING. DOES THAT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION? HE STEPPED OVER ONE OF THE BODIES AT THAT POINT?
# 53 (THE VIDEOTAPE CONTINUES PLAYING.) # 54 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DO YOU SEE -- BACK IT UP. BACK IT UP. BACK IT UP. CAN YOU SEE THAT DRINK -- SOMEBODY HAVING A DRINK IN THEIR HAND THERE? DO YOU SEE THAT?
# 55 A: IT APPEARS TO BE A CUP IN SOMEONE'S HAND, YES.
# 56 Q: A CUP AT 1:18:34:29. THAT IS A VIOLATION OF THE RULES YOU TOLD US ABOUT THE OTHER DAY, ISN'T IT?
# 57 A: I DON'T KNOW WHERE HE IS STANDING. IF I HAD SEEN THAT, I WOULDN'T HAVE ALLOWED IT ON THE SCENE. I DON'T KNOW IF THE CUP IS FULL OR EMPTY AND I HAVE NEVER SEEN THE CUP AT THE SCENE.
# 58 Q: DO YOU SEE THE CUP AT THE SCENE NOW, SIR?
# 60 Q: THE QUESTION WAS IT IS A VIOLATION OF THE RULES THAT YOU TOLD US ABOUT YESTERDAY; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 61 A: I WOULDN'T ALLOW THAT ON MY CRIME SCENE. THAT IS MY SAME ANSWER; THAT'S CORRECT.
# 62 THE COURT: HE JUST SAID THAT IS CORRECT. NEVER MIND. PROCEED.
# 64 Q: DO YOU SEE YOURSELF UP IN THE UPPER RIGHT-HAND PORTION OF THIS PHOTOGRAPH?
# 65 A: I AM NOT LOOKING FOR CUPS, MR. COCHRAN.
# 66 Q: I SAID DO YOU SEE YOURSELF AT THE SCENE, DETECTIVE? CAN YOU ANSWER THE QUESTION, PLEASE?
# 68 Q: DO YOU SEE YOURSELF ON THE VIDEO HERE?
# 70 Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, DO YOU SEE THE CUP ON THE VIDEO?
# 72 Q: THAT IS A VIOLATION OF THE RULES YOU TOLD US ABOUT, RIGHT?
# 74 Q: DO YOU KNOW WHOSE HAND THAT IS ON THAT CUP?
# 76 MR. COCHRAN: CONTINUE ON.
# 77 (THE VIDEOTAPE CONTINUES PLAYING.) # 78 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DO YOU SEE IT AGAIN THERE?
# 79 A: YES, MR. COCHRAN, I SAW IT AGAIN.
# 80 Q: NOW -- WILL YOU STOP FOR A MOMENT. YOU SEE MR. FUNG THERE. HE DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING ON HIS HAND THERE, DOES HE?
# 81 A: I CAN'T TELL WITH THAT SHOT.
# 82 Q: WELL, LOOK ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WEREN'T YOU ABLE TO TELL HE DOES NOT HAVE ANY GLOVES ON HIS HANDS AT THAT POINT?
# 83 (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.) # 84 Q: WERE YOU ABLE TO TELL THAT?
# 86 Q: YOU CAN'T TELL THAT? ALL RIGHT. CONTINUE ON.
# 87 (THE VIDEOTAPE CONTINUES PLAYING.) # 88 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DO YOU SEE HIS HAND NOW? DO YOU SEE FUNG'S HANDS NOW?
# 89 A: HE DOES NOT APPEAR TO HAVE GLOVES ON.
# 90 THE COURT: THIS IS FRAME 51:19.
# 91 MR. COCHRAN: 1:18:51:19, YOUR HONOR.
# 93 MR. COCHRAN: ET SEQ. THANK YOU.
# 94 (THE VIDEOTAPE CONTINUES PLAYING.) # 95 MR. COCHRAN: THAT IS THE END OF IT. YOUR HONOR, THERE IS ANOTHER VIDEO THAT RATHER THAN SHOW IT, I THINK WE HAVE SHOWN IT EARLIER, I WANT TO JUST APPROACH THE WITNESS AND ASK HIM TO IDENTIFY AND THEN I WILL PUT IT ON THE ELMO IF THE COURT WILL ALLOW. I HAVE SHOWN THIS TO COUNSEL SO I WILL MARK THIS AS DEFENDANT'S NEXT IN ORDER, 1043-B. I HAVE SHOWN IT TO COUNSEL.
# 97 MR. COCHRAN: 1043-B, YES, YOUR HONOR.
# 98 (DEFT'S 1043-B FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH) # 99 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DETECTIVE LANGE, I WANT TO SHOW YOU THIS PHOTOGRAPH, A PRINT ACTUALLY OF THE VIDEO. DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE GENTLEMAN DEPICTED THEREIN?
# 100 A: IT APPEARS TO BE THE PHOTOGRAPHER.
# 101 Q: IS THAT MR. ROKAHR?
# 102 A: IT LOOKS LIKE MR. ROKAHR, YES.
# 103 Q: AND IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH YOU SEE HIS CAMERA THERE ON HIS RIGHT SHOULDER?
# 104 A: YES, THAT'S CORRECT.
# 105 Q: DO YOU SEE THE LINE STILL UP SO THAT THE CRIME SCENE IS STILL INTACT AT THAT POINT?
# 107 Q: HE IS INSIDE THE CRIME SCENE?
# 108 (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.) # 109 Q: MR. ROKAHR IS INSIDE THE CRIME SCENE?
# 110 A: HE APPEARS TO BE, YES.
# 111 MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. I WILL PUT THIS ON THE ELMO, YOUR HONOR.
# 113 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, THAT IS A PHOTOGRAPH OF THE PHOTOGRAPHER IN THIS CASE; IS THAT CORRECT? YOU SEE HIS CAMERA IN HIS RIGHT HAND, DO YOU NOT?
# 115 Q: IT APPEARS THAT HE IS LOOKING INSIDE OF A MAILBOX THERE AT THE LOCATION?
# 116 A: YEAH, IT APPEARS THAT WAY.
# 117 Q: THAT IS ONE OF THE JOBS YOU ASSIGNED HIM THAT MORNING, TO LOOK INSIDE THAT MAILBOX?
# 118 A: NO. HE MAY HAVE BEEN LOOKING INSIDE THAT MAILBOX TO TAKE A PHOTOGRAPH OF MAIL, HOWEVER.
# 119 Q: HE MAY HAVE BEEN DOING ANY NUMBER OF THINGS, BUT WHAT WE HAVE IS THE PHOTOGRAPH; IS THAT CORRECT, SIR?
# 120 A: WHEN WE HAVE A PHOTOGRAPHER AT THE SCENE WE GENERALLY ASK THEM INITIALLY TO DO ORIENTATION SHOTS AND WE DO NOT SUPERVISE EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THEM. I WOULD CERTAINLY EXPECT MY PHOTOGRAPHER TO SHOW THAT INITIATIVE AND IN THIS CASE HE APPEARS TO BE SHOWING THAT INITIATIVE.
# 121 Q: HE IS SHOWING YOU LOTS OF INITIATIVE; IS THAT RIGHT?
# 122 A: HE IS SHOWING ME THE INITIATIVE THAT HE IS LOOKING IN THE MAILBOX, AND IF THERE WERE MAIL IN THERE, I'M SURE HE PHOTOGRAPHED IT AND TOLD ME ABOUT IT.
# 123 Q: HAVE YOU SEEN ANY PHOTOGRAPHS OF MAIL THIS CASE, SIR?
# 124 A: HE WOULDN'T HAVE KNOWN UNLESS HE LOOKED.
# 125 Q: ALL RIGHT. CAN YOU ANSWER ONE QUESTION? DID YOU SEE ANY MAIL IN THAT MAILBOX?
# 127 Q: ALL RIGHT. AND THEN WITH REGARD TO THAT, DID YOU WRITE A REPORT ABOUT OPENING THE MAILBOX AND LOOKING INSIDE THE MAILBOX?
# 129 Q: YOU DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT HIM DOING THIS UNTIL YOU SAW THE VIDEO, DID YOU?
# 131 Q: AND DO YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THAT MAILBOX HAD BEEN DUSTED FOR PRINTS BEFORE HE DID THIS?
# 132 A: I HAVE NO IDEA WHEN THIS PARTICULAR PHOTOGRAPH WAS TAKEN.
# 133 Q: YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHETHER HE DID THIS TOTALLY ON HIS OWN, DO YOU?
# 134 A: I BELIEVE TO ME IT SHOWS INITIATIVE THAT HE DID IT. I HAVE NO IDEA WHEN IT WAS DONE.
# 135 Q: THAT IS NOT WHAT I ASKED YOU, SIR. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHEN HE DID THIS, RIGHT?
# 137 Q: YOU HAD NOT TOLD HIM TO DO THIS; ISN'T THAT RIGHT?
# 139 Q: THE FIRST TIME YOU BECAME AWARE OF THIS IS WHEN YOU SAW THIS PHOTOGRAPH, RIGHT?
# 140 A: ONCE AGAIN THAT IS TRUE.
# 141 Q: DO YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THAT MAILBOX HAD BEEN DUSTED FOR ANY KIND OF PRINTS AT THAT POINT?
# 142 A: SAME ANSWER. I HAVE NO IDEA WHEN THIS PHOTOGRAPH WAS TAKEN SO I CAN'T GIVE YOU THAT ANSWER.
# 143 MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. YOUR HONOR, WE CAN MARK THAT EXHIBIT, IF THE COURT PLEASES, AND I WOULD LIKE ALSO TO MARK 1043-C IS THE PHOTOGRAPH WITH THE ARM WITH THE CUP IN IT WHICH WAS AT 1:18:34:29.
# 145 MR. COCHRAN: 1043-C, AND WE WILL PASS THAT ON, YOUR HONOR.
# 146 (DEFT'S 1043-C FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH) # 147 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, WITH REGARD TO THIS WHITE SHEET OR BLANKET THAT WE SAW THIS MORNING AND WE HAVE SEEN BEFORE, YOU HAVE SEEN BLOOD ON THAT SHEET AND BLANKET; ISN'T THAT CORRECT, DID YOU NOT?
# 149 Q: THAT BLOOD CAME FROM MISS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON'S BODY, THE AREA OF HER BODY?
# 151 Q: NOW, YOU ALLUDED TO, I BELIEVE THIS MORNING, THE FACT THAT THERE HAD BEEN A WALK-THROUGH IN WHICH YOU HAD PARTICIPATED IN WITH THE DEFENSE, I THINK IN AUGUST, ON OR ABOUT AUGUST 27 OF 1994. DO YOU RECALL THAT?
# 153 Q: AND AT THAT TIME A KNIT CAP WAS POINTED OUT TO YOU. AND DID YOU EVER SEE THE INVESTIGATOR MC NALLY WHO WAS THERE TRY THE KNIT CAP ON?
# 155 Q: AND YOU NEVER -- YOU WEREN'T INTERESTED IN BOOKING THAT KNIT CAP, WERE YOU?
# 156 A: I HAD NO INTEREST IN BOOKING IT, NO.
# 157 Q: ALL RIGHT. HAVE YOU SEEN THESE KNIT CAPS WHERE THERE IS ONE SIZE THAT FITS ALL?
# 158 A: I SUPPOSE THERE IS SUCH A THING.
# 159 Q: AND WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT KNIT CAP, DO YOU KNOW?
# 160 A: I AM ASSUMING THAT THE FAMILY COLLECTED IT WITH EVERYTHING ELSE.
# 161 Q: DO YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO IT?
# 162 A: I DID NOT FOLLOW UP ON THE KNIT CAP, NO.
# 163 Q: WHAT COLOR WAS THE KNIT CAP, SIR?
# 164 A: MY RECOLLECTION IS EITHER DARK BLUE OR BLACK. I DON'T RECALL.
# 165 Q: IT APPEARED TO BE THE SAME COLOR AS THE KNIT CAP THAT YOU ALLEGEDLY FOUND OUTSIDE; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 166 A: IT WAS A DARK COLOR. I DON'T RECALL IF IT WAS THE SAME COLOR OR NOT.
# 167 Q: DID YOU TAKE A PHOTO OF THAT PARTICULAR CAP THAT WAS POINTED OUT TO YOU THAT MORNING?
# 169 Q: NOW, WITH REGARD TO THE CHILDREN, WE TALKED ABOUT THIS BRIEFLY, THE POLICE OFFICER VASQUEZ OVERHEARD A STATEMENT WHEREIN SYDNEY SIMPSON WAS SPEAKING TO HER YOUNGER BROTHER JUSTIN; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 170 A: THAT IS MY UNDERSTANDING, YES.
# 171 Q: AND THAT STATEMENT IS IN A REPORT PROVIDED BY VASQUEZ; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 173 Q: AND THE SUBJECT OF THAT STATEMENT DEALS WITH A PHONE CALL THAT THEIR MOTHER HAD RECEIVED THAT NIGHT; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 174 A: I DON'T KNOW IF IT INVOLVES A PHONE CALL. I THOUGHT IT INVOLVED AN OVERHEAR ON THE PART OF SYDNEY. I'M NOT SURE, THOUGH. I HAVEN'T REVIEWED IT IN SOME TIME.
# 175 Q: AN OVERHEAR OF A PHONE CALL; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 176 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.
# 177 MR. COCHRAN: SUBJECT MATTER.
# 178 THE COURT: WHAT IS THE OBJECTION?
# 179 MS. CLARK: HEARSAY.
# 180 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
# 181 MR. COCHRAN: ASKING ABOUT THE SUBJECT MATTER, YOUR HONOR.
# 182 THE COURT: THAT CALLS FOR HEARSAY. SUSTAINED.
# 183 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DID IT INVOLVE AN OVERHEAR OF A CONVERSATION?
# 184 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.
# 185 MR. COCHRAN: THAT IS NOT HEARSAY.
# 186 THE COURT: THAT IS NOT. THE SUBJECT, WHAT WENT ON, IS.
# 188 Q: DID IT INVOLVE AN OVERHEAR OF A CONVERSATION, TELEPHONE CONVERSATION?
# 189 A: I BELIEVE IT DID. I BELIEVE IT DID.
# 190 Q: WHEN IS THE LAST TIME YOU HAVE SEEN VASQUEZ' REPORT?
# 191 A: WHEN YOU SHOWED IT TO ME IN COURT SEVERAL DAYS AGO.
# 192 Q: ALL RIGHT. SHE IS STILL WITH THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT?
# 194 Q: YOU DON'T KNOW THAT?
# 196 Q: IN THE COURSE OF YOUR INVESTIGATION DID YOU EVER ASCERTAIN WHETHER OR NOT NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON RECEIVED A PHONE CALL FROM FAYE RESNICK THAT NIGHT?
# 197 A: I DID NOT HAVE THAT INFORMATION, NO.
# 198 Q: WITH REGARD TO YOUR THEORY OF THIS NOT BEING A DRUG KILLING, WOULD THAT EVER BE RELEVANT TO YOU, GIVEN THE FACTS I GAVE YOU BEFORE REGARDING FAYE RESNICK AND WHETHER OR NOT THERE WAS A PHONE CALL FROM FAYE RESNICK AT ABOUT NINE O'CLOCK OR THEREAFTER ON THE NIGHT OF JUNE 12, 1994?
WOULD THAT HAVE BEEN IMPORTANT TO YOU AS AN INVESTIGATOR, FROM FAYE RESNICK, TO NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON?
# 200 Q: WOULD THAT BE IMPORTANT TO YOU?
# 201 A: WELL, I WOULD LIKE TO TALK TO FAYE RESNICK, NOT BECAUSE I THOUGHT IT WAS A DRUG-RELATED MURDER, BUT ANYONE WHO SPOKE TO THE VICTIM I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN.
# 202 Q: WELL, YOU TALKED TO HER AT LUNCHTIME TODAY. WITHOUT GIVING US THE CONVERSATION, IS THAT THE FIRST TIME YOU HAVE TALKED TO HER SINCE READING THE BOOK?
# 203 MS. CLARK: THE BOOK, YOUR HONOR --
# 204 THE COURT: HE SAID HE READ THE BOOK WHEN IT FIRST CAME OUT AND HE TOLD US ABOUT TALKING TO HER THIS AFTERNOON. HE HAS ALREADY TOLD US ABOUT THIS.
# 205 MR. COCHRAN: VERY WELL, YOUR HONOR.
# 206 Q: WHEN YOU WERE AT ROCKINGHAM, IT IS YOUR TESTIMONY THAT YOU CAME IN THE REAR OF MR. SIMPSON'S HOME; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 208 Q: AND WHEN YOU CAME IN THE REAR OF THAT HOUSE, DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT ORDER YOU CAME INTO THE HOUSE, SIR?
# 210 Q: AND DID ARNELLE SIMPSON COME IN FIRST?
# 212 Q: WELL, DID SHE HAVE A KEY?
# 213 A: SEEMS TO ME SHE DID KEY HER WAY IN.
# 214 Q: AND DO YOU RECALL WHETHER OR NOT THE ALARM WAS ON AT THAT HOUSE AT THAT TIME, SIR?
# 216 Q: YOU DON'T RECALL?
# 218 Q: YOU HAVE NO RECOLLECTION OF WHETHER OR NOT SHE HAD TO TURN THE ALARM OFF AT SOME POINT?
# 219 A: SHE MAY HAVE. MY ATTENTION WASN'T FOCUSED ON HER.
# 220 Q: BUT AT ANY RATE, IF SHE DID IT, SHE DID IT AFTER SHE CAME INSIDE THE HOUSE FROM THE REAR, RIGHT?
# 221 A: I WOULD ASSUME THAT.
# 222 Q: NOW, YESTERDAY YOU DESCRIBED, DURING REDIRECT EXAMINATION, HOW YOU ALLOWED DETECTIVE FUHRMAN TO INTERVIEW MR. KATO KAELIN IN HIS ROOM; ISN'T THAT RIGHT?
# 224 Q: DID YOU SPECIFICALLY TELL HIM TO DO THAT OR YOU JUST TOLD HIM -- YOU JUST DIDN'T STOP HIM FROM DOING THAT?
# 225 A: THAT IS THE WAY THINGS HAPPENED. HE WAS WALKING IN FRONT OF ME. I WAS GOING TOWARD THE HOUSE TO KNOCK ON THE REAR DOOR. HE WALKED TO THE GUEST HOUSE AND KNOCKED ON THE GUEST DOOR. HE WAS THE ONE THAT HAPPENED TO BE THERE TO DO THAT.
# 226 Q: LET'S GET BACK TO MY QUESTION. MY QUESTION WAS DID YOU SPECIFICALLY TELL HIM TO DO THAT AT ALL?
# 227 A: SPECIFICALLY TELL HIM TO KNOCK ON THE DOOR?
# 228 Q: GO INTERVIEW KATO KAELIN? DID YOU TELL HIM TO DO THAT?
# 230 Q: ALL RIGHT. YESTERDAY YOU INDICATED -- AT SOME POINT IN YOUR EXAMINATION DID YOU USE THE WORDS "I WORK FOR VANNATTER" ? DID YOU SAY THAT?
# 231 A: I WORK FOR VANNATTER?
# 232 Q: DID YOU USE THE WORDS "I WORK FOR VANNATTER"? WAS THAT IN THE TRANSCRIPT? STRIKE THAT?
# 233 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION.
# 234 MR. COCHRAN: THAT IS A BAD QUESTION.
# 235 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DID YOU SAY THAT? DID YOU SAY THAT, "I WORK FOR VANNATTER"?
# 236 A: IN RELATION TO TESTIMONY YESTERDAY?
# 237 Q: YES, SIR, IN RELATION TO TESTIMONY YESTERDAY?
# 238 A: I DON'T RECALL SAYING THAT.
# 239 Q: YOU DON'T RECALL SAYING THAT?
# 241 Q: DID YOU WORK FOR VANNATTER ON THAT DATE?
# 243 Q: DO YOU RECALL? YOU WERE CO-LEAD INVESTIGATORS; IS THAT RIGHT?
# 244 A: WE WORK AS PARTNERS; THAT'S CORRECT.
# 245 Q: YOU WERE ASKED A SERIES OF QUESTIONS YESTERDAY BY MISS CLARK ABOUT I BELIEVE CANDLES AND THE STATE OF BURNING OF CANDLES. SO THAT WE ARE CLEAR, THERE ARE NO PHOTOGRAPHS OF THESE CANDLES TO ASSIST US NOW AS WE LOOK BACK TO TRY AND DETERMINE; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 246 A: I HAVE NO PHOTOGRAPHS, THAT'S CORRECT.
# 247 Q: NOT ONLY YOU, BUT THERE ARE NO PHOTOGRAPHS IN THIS CASE OF THOSE CANDLES; IS THAT RIGHT?
# 248 A: I RECENTLY OBSERVED A VIDEO THAT HAS THE CANDLES IN THEM, YES.
# 249 Q: ALL RIGHT. WHERE DID YOU OBSERVE THAT VIDEO?
# 250 A: I BELIEVE THAT WAS A COMPILATION OF NEWS RELEASES, NEWS STORIES AND NEWS VIDEOS THAT WERE RECEIVED FROM THE DEFENSE.
# 251 Q: RECEIVED FROM THE DEFENSE?
# 253 Q: AND YOU SAW THIS AND YOU SAW A CANDLE BURNING IN WHAT ROOM?
# 254 A: IN THE FRONT ROOM.
# 255 Q: IN THE LIVING ROOM AREA?
# 257 Q: IS THERE ANY PICTURES THAT YOU EVER TOOK OF ANY CANDLES BURNING?
# 258 A: NO. I ALREADY TESTIFIED WE TOOK NO PICTURES OF THE CANDLES BURNING.
# 259 Q: ONLY BURNING CANDLE YOU HAVE SEEN IS A VIDEO TURNED OVER BY THE DEFENSE TO THE PROSECUTION; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 261 Q: WHEN DID YOU SEE THAT?
# 264 (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.) # 265 Q: WHAT DATE WAS IT?
# 266 A: I BELIEVE IT WAS LAST FRIDAY NIGHT.
# 267 Q: LAST FRIDAY NIGHT. AND WHERE WERE YOU AT THAT TIME WHEN YOU SAW IT?
# 268 A: IN THIS BUILDING.
# 269 Q: WHO WERE YOU WITH?
# 271 Q: BY YOURSELF ALONE?
# 273 Q: ON FRIDAY NIGHT WATCHING VIDEOS?
# 274 A: BY MYSELF ALONE WATCHING VIDEOS.
KEY QUOTE # 275 MR. COCHRAN: I WON'T SAY ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT THAT.
# 278 MR. COCHRAN: EXCUSE ME. THANK YOU.
# 279 DET. TOM LANGE: I WAS ASKED TO DO IT.
# 280 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. YOU WERE ASKED TO DO IT BY MISS CLARK? EXPLAIN THAT. WHO ASKED YOU TO DO THAT?
# 282 Q: MISS CLARK? ALL RIGHT. DID SHE WATCH ANY OF THOSE VIDEOS WITH YOU?
# 284 Q: NOW, YESTERDAY MISS CLARK WENT THROUGH AN ATTEMPT TO TRY AND EXPLAIN THE -- THE 115, 116, 117 PHOTO I.D. NUMBERS AND THE EVIDENCE NUMBERS. DO YOU REMEMBER.
# 285 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. THAT IS ARGUMENTATIVE, "ATTEMPT."
# 287 MR. SHAPIRO: IT IS.
# 288 MR. COCHRAN: OKAY. I WILL TAKE OUT THE WORD "ATTEMPT."
# 289 Q: YESTERDAY MISS CLARK ASKED YOU SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT 115, 116, 117, THE PHOTO I.D. NUMBERS AND THE NUMBERS ASSIGNED TO EVIDENCE IN THIS CASE. DO YOU RECALL THAT?
# 291 Q: AS I UNDERSTOOD WHAT YOU INDICATED TO US, YOU SAID THAT THE ANSWERS TO THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE PHOTO I.D. NUMBERS AND THE ITEMS THAT WERE ASSIGNED EVIDENCE ARE LOCATED IN THE VOLUMINOUS 30,000 PAGES OF REPORTS IN THIS CASE? IS THAT WHAT YOU BASICALLY SAID TO US?
# 292 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION.
# 293 MR. COCHRAN: I AM ASKING HIM.
# 294 THE COURT: MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE.
# 295 MR. COCHRAN: WHAT, YOUR HONOR?
# 296 MS. CLARK: MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE.
# 297 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DIDN'T YOU SAY THE ANSWER TO THE 115, 116, 117 WAS CONTAINED IN THE REPORTS IN THIS CASE? DID YOU SAY THAT?
# 298 A: I BELIEVE I SAID THE PROPERTY REPORTS.
# 299 Q: YES. DID YOU SAY THAT? AND AMONG THE REPORTS IN THIS CASE THERE ARE --
# 300 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, THAT MISSTATES THE TESTIMONY.
# 301 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 302 MS. CLARK: HE DIDN'T GET THE --
# 303 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 304 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: AMONG THE REPORTS IN THIS CASE, HOW MANY PAGES ARE THERE ALTOGETHER, IF YOU KNOW?
# 305 A: PROPERTY REPORTS AND ALL REPORTS.
# 306 MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR --
# 307 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. THAT IS IRRELEVANT.
# 308 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 309 DET. TOM LANGE: AS TO THE ENTIRE INVESTIGATION?
# 310 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: YES, SIR.
# 311 A: SEVERAL THOUSAND.
# 312 Q: SEVERAL THOUSAND?
# 314 Q: YOU HEARD THE TERM 30,000?
# 315 A: I DON'T KNOW IF THERE ARE THAT MANY, AT LEAST NOT GENERATED BY THE POLICE DEPARTMENT. AFTER THE CASE WAS FILED OF COURSE THERE WAS A LOT MORE THAT WENT ON.
# 316 Q: NOW, WITH REGARD TO THAT GLOVE THAT WE SAW -- STRIKE THAT. WITH REGARD TO THE BAG THAT WE SAW ON THE VIDEO THAT WE SHOWED YOU REGARDING MR. FUNG, AFTER HAVING SEEN THAT IS YOUR MEMORY REFRESHED AS TO WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS AFTER WE SAW MR. FUNG STEPPING OUT OF THE AREA WHERE MR. GOLDMAN WAS THAT YOU THEN WENT OUT TO THE VAN AND LOOKED AT OR LOOKED INSIDE OF THE ENVELOPE -- INSIDE OF THE PAPER BAG, RATHER?
# 317 A: AGAIN, IF THIS WAS THE BAG THAT HAD THE GLOVE IN IT, I WOULD HAVE DONE THAT. I DON'T KNOW IF THIS WAS THAT PARTICULAR BAG OR IF MR. FUNG WAS BACK THERE DOING SOMETHING ELSE. IT IS UNCLEAR TO ME WHETHER MR. GOLDMAN WAS STILL BACK IN THAT POSITION OR NOT, SO I CAN'T GIVE YOU A TIME FRAME AND I CAN'T GIVE YOU AN ANSWER.
# 318 Q: WELL, DID YOU SEE MR. FUNG AT THE SCENE THAT MORNING AFTER HE GOT THERE AFTER TEN O'CLOCK ON THE 13TH WITH MORE THAN ONE PAPER BAG AS HE APPEARED IN THE VIDEO?
# 319 A: I SAW HIM WITH VARIOUS BAGS AT DIFFERENT TIMES, YES.
# 320 Q: WERE THERE OTHER BAGS THAT YOU SAW SIMILAR TO THAT BAG?
# 322 Q: HOW MANY BAGS DID YOU SEE HIM WITH AT ALL THAT DAY?
# 323 A: I DON'T RECALL. I BELIEVE THEY PUT ONE PIECE OF EVIDENCE IN ONE BAG, SO I OBSERVED TWO OR THREE BAGS IN THE AREA. I DON'T RECALL SPECIFICALLY.
# 324 Q: NOW, WITH REGARD TO SHOEPRINTS AT THE SCENE THEREOF THAT PARTICULAR EVENING, YOU HAVE GIVEN US -- WE HAVE HAD A LOT OF TESTIMONY ABOUT SHOEPRINTS LEADING AND HEADING WEST OF WHERE THE BODIES WERE FOUND. WERE YOU EVER ABLE TO DETERMINE OR MAKE ANY COPIES OR TAKE ANY PHOTOGRAPHS OF ANY SHOEPRINTS THAT WERE IN THE DIRT AREA WHERE MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY WAS FOUND?
# 325 A: I OBSERVED NONE IN THE DIRT AREA.
# 326 Q: AND IN FACT WE KNOW, DO WE NOT, THAT YOU STEPPED IN THAT AREA, DID YOU NOT?
# 328 Q: DETECTIVE FUHRMAN STEPPED IN THAT AREA, DID HE NOT?
# 329 A: IT APPEARS THAT WAY.
# 330 Q: AND MR. FUNG STEPPED IN THAT AREA BASED UPON THAT VIDEO; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 332 Q: AT LEAST THOSE THREE AND THERE MAY HAVE BEEN OTHERS; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 334 Q: AND WE KNOW ALSO THAT FOOTPRINTS AREN'T ALWAYS -- OR SHOEPRINTS AREN'T ALWAYS VISIBLE WITH THE NAKED EYE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 336 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, VAGUE.
# 337 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 338 DET. TOM LANGE: UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES IN THE DIRT, I EXAMINED IT BEFORE I WENT IN THERE AND I SAW NONE. I COULDN'T MANAGE INVISIBLE PRINTS BEING IN THE DIRT.
# 339 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: THAT IS NOT THE QUESTION. I DIDN'T ASK YOU ABOUT IN THE DIRT. I SAID SHOEPRINTS ARE NOT ALWAYS VISIBLE WITH THE NAKED EYE?
# 340 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, VAGUE, IRRELEVANT.
# 341 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 342 DET. TOM LANGE: IN THE DIRT?
# 343 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: I ASKED YOU ARE SHOEPRINTS --
# 344 A: DEPENDS ON THE SURFACE, MR. COCHRAN. IT WOULD DEPEND ON THE SURFACE.
# 346 A: IF YOU WERE TO ASK ME THAT ON A FLAT SURFACE --
# 347 MR. COCHRAN: YOU HAVE ANSWERED THE QUESTION.
# 348 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, COUNSEL KEEPS --
# 349 THE COURT: OVERRULED. IT WAS JUST A QUESTION OF SOME SHOEPRINTS NOT NECESSARILY VISIBLE TO THE EYE. YES OR NO.
# 350 MR. COCHRAN: YES. YES OR NO.
# 351 Q: ARE SOME SHOEPRINTS NOT NECESSARILY VISIBLE TO THE NAKED EYE?
# 352 A: YOU ARE NOT REFERRING TO DIRT, VISIBLY --
# 353 THE COURT: COUNSEL, WE HAVE COVERED THIS TWICE ALREADY.
# 354 MR. COCHRAN: I WANT TO GO INTO A SPECIFIC AREA. I THOUGHT HE HAD, YOUR HONOR.
# 355 THE COURT: THIS IS ABOUT THE THIRD TIME WE ARE VISITING THIS WITH THIS WITNESS.
# 356 MR. COCHRAN: I'M SURE WE COVERED THIS. I'M NOT SURE OF THE ANSWER IS WHAT I'M INDICATING.
# 357 THE COURT: WE GOT THE SAME ANSWER LAST TIME.
# 358 MR. COCHRAN: LET ME ASK IT AGAIN AND TRY TO GET AN ANSWER.
# 359 THE COURT: QUICKLY.
# 360 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: ARE FOOTPRINTS, SHOEPRINTS, SOMETIMES NOT VISIBLE TO THE NAKED IDEA, DEPENDING ON THE SURFACE THAT THEY ARE ON?
# 362 Q: ALL RIGHT. AND WITH REGARD TO THE AREA OF THE DIRT IN THIS CASE, DID YOU TAKE ANY PHOTOGRAPHS OR WERE ANY PHOTOGRAPHS TAKEN BY YOU OF ANY POSSIBLE SHOEPRINTS THAT MIGHT BE IN THAT DIRT AREA THAT MORNING?
# 363 A: THERE WERE NONE THERE SO THERE WAS NO REASON TO TAKE PHOTOGRAPHS.
# 364 Q: SO YOU DIDN'T TAKE ANY PHOTOGRAPHS; IS THAT RIGHT?
# 365 A: THERE WAS NOTHING TO TAKE PHOTOGRAPHS OF.
# 366 Q: ALL RIGHT. SO THAT IF A PARTICULAR -- IF MR. GOLDMAN'S ASSAILANT HAD STEPPED IN THE DIRT AND THERE WERE NO SHOEPRINTS AND HE LEFT OUT LIKE YOU DID AND WALKED ALONG THAT WALKWAY TRYING TO AVOID THE BLOOD, THERE WOULD BE NO SHOEPRINTS FOR YOU TO SEE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
KEY QUOTE # 367 A: I DON'T KNOW. I SAW NONE IN THE DIRT.
# 368 Q: WELL, THAT IS WHAT YOU DID, IS IT NOT? YOU STEPPED IN THERE AND YOU STEPPED OUT TO TRY TO AVOID ANY BLOODY SHOEPRINTS, DID YOU NOT?
# 370 Q: SINCE YOU DON'T KNOW, YOU DON'T KNOW WHETHER OR NOT MR. GOLDMAN'S ASSAILANT MAY HAVE DONE THAT SAME THING; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 371 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, CALLS FOR SPECULATION.
# 372 MR. COCHRAN: I AM ASKING.
# 373 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 374 DET. TOM LANGE: I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE ASSAILANT DID OTHER THAN THE ASSAILANT -- MAY I FINISH?
# 375 THE COURT: HOLD ON. HOLD ON. HOLD ON. MR. COCHRAN, LET HIM FINISH THE ANSWER BEFORE YOU START.
# 376 MR. COCHRAN: I THOUGHT HE WAS.
# 377 DET. TOM LANGE: THE EVIDENCE CLEARLY SHOWS THAT THE SUSPECT WENT THE OPPOSITE WAY BECAUSE OF THE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS WEST ON THE WALK; NOT EAST.
KEY QUOTE # 378 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: SIR, IF YOU DON'T SEE THE PRINTS, HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT THEY WERE NOT THERE?
# 379 A: I DID SEE THE PRINTS THAT WERE BLOODY.
# 380 Q: IF THERE WERE SHOEPRINTS THAT WERE NOT VISIBLE WITH THE NAKED EYE, HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THAT? YOU WERE NOT THERE?
# 381 THE COURT: THAT IS ARGUMENTATIVE, COUNSEL.
# 382 MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT.
# 383 Q: NOW, IN THAT CONNECTION, YESTERDAY WHEN YOU TOLD US THAT MR. GOLDMAN WAS SURPRISED BY HIS ATTACKER, THAT IS A THEORY OF YOURS. YOU WERE NOT THERE; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 384 A: IT IS CORRECT THAT I WAS NOT THERE.
# 385 Q: THAT IS YOUR THEORY; IS IT NOT?
# 386 A: I BELIEVE THERE WAS A POSSIBILITY THAT HE WAS SURPRISED, YES.
# 387 Q: POSSIBILITY. IT IS ALSO A POSSIBILITY THAT HE WASN'T SURPRISED; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 388 A: THE INDICATORS TO ME ARE THAT HE WAS, BUT AGAIN, AS YOU STATED, I WASN'T THERE; I CAN'T SAY.
# 389 Q: AND WITH REGARD TO WHETHER OR NOT MR. GOLDMAN STRUCK HIS ASSAILANT OR ASSAILANTS, YOU DON'T KNOW THAT EITHER, SIR? YOU CAN ONLY TELL US YOUR THEORY; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 390 A: I CAN ONLY TELL YOU THE EVIDENCE THAT I HAVE.
# 391 Q: THE EVIDENCE THAT YOU HAVE YOU SHARED WITH US AND YOU ARE PART OF THE PROSECUTION TEAM; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 393 Q: NOW, YOU TALKED ABOUT YESTERDAY TAKING A STATEMENT FROM MR. O.J. SIMPSON. DO YOU RECALL THAT?
# 395 Q: AND WHEN YOU TALKED TO MR. SIMPSON HE WAS COOPERATIVE, WAS HE NOT?
# 396 A: THAT IS A SUBJECTIVE -- A SUBJECTIVE THING. HE WAS COOPERATIVE TO THE EXTENT THAT HE SAT DOWN AND SPOKE WITH US, BUT --
# 397 Q: DIDN'T HAVE TO TALK TO YOU, SIR?
# 398 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. HE HAS NOT FINISHED HIS ANSWER, YOUR HONOR.
# 399 MR. COCHRAN: I THOUGHT HE WAS FINISHED.
# 400 Q: YOU MAY CONTINUE.
# 401 A: I DON'T BELIEVE HE WAS COOPERATIVE AND BEING ENTIRELY FORTHCOMING WITH ME.
# 402 Q: THAT IS AGAIN YOUR OPINION, ISN'T IT, WHICH YOU ARE GIVING US ALL DAY TODAY AND YESTERDAY; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 403 THE COURT: ARGUMENTATIVE.
# 404 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. THAT IS ARGUMENTATIVE.
# 405 MR. COCHRAN: THERE IS A TAPE-RECORDING.
# 406 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.
# 407 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 408 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: THERE IS A TAPE-RECORDING OF THIS INTERVIEW; IS THERE NOT?
# 410 Q: IT IS ABOUT 33 MINUTES; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 412 Q: AT THE BEGINNING OF THAT INTERVIEW YOU TELL HIM THAT HE DOESN'T HAVE TO TELL --
# 413 MS. CLARK: OBJECT, BEYOND THE SCOPE AND HEARSAY.
# 414 MR. COCHRAN: AT THIS POINT I WOULD LIKE TO BE HEARD WITH REGARD TO THIS PART.
# 415 THE COURT: BEYOND THE SCOPE OF REDIRECT.
# 416 MR. COCHRAN: I WOULD ASK LEAVE OF THE COURT WITH REGARD TO A SERIES OF QUESTIONS AND I WILL BE WRAPPING THIS PART UP.
# 417 MS. CLARK: WE SHOULD APPROACH, YOUR HONOR, IF COUNSEL WANTS TO MAKE AN ARGUMENT NOT TO BE BEFORE THE JURY.
# 418 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.