Johnnie Cochran recross-examines Detective Tom Lange, methodically cataloguing a series of investigative mistakes and evidence-handling failures including the unretrieved bloody blanket over Nicole Simpson's body, the unphotographed rear gate blood spots, the discarded stomach contents, the misreported coin count, and the tennis shoes carried without trace-evidence precautions. Cochran also opens by establishing that Lange rehearsed his redirect testimony privately with Marcia Clark, and closes by pressing Lange on Caucasian hairs found on both gloves.
# 1 THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN.
# 2 MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU. GOOD MORNING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.
# 3 THE JURY: GOOD MORNING.
# 6 Q: GOOD MORNING, DETECTIVE LANGE.
# 7 A: GOOD MORNING, SIR.
# 8 Q: PRIOR TO YOUR UNDERGOING REDIRECT EXAMINATION, YOU HAD A NUMBER OF CONVERSATIONS WITH MISS CLARK; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 10 Q: REGARDING YOUR TESTIMONY AND THE QUESTIONS SHE WOULD ASK YOU?
# 12 Q: AND YOU DISCUSSED AND WENT OVER THE CONTENT OF THE QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS THAT WE POSED TO YOU; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 14 Q: SO THAT YOU KNEW WHAT QUESTIONS SHE WAS GOING TO ASK, AND IN FACT, YOU REHEARSED WHAT YOU WERE GOING TO BE TESTIFYING ABOUT; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 15 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION TO THE CHARACTERIZATION "REHEARSED."
# 16 THE COURT: REPHRASE THE QUESTION.
# 17 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: WELL, YOU DISCUSSED WHAT YOU WERE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT HERE IN COURT YESTERDAY AND TODAY; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 19 Q: ALL RIGHT. AND IN THE COURSE OF THAT -- HOW -- WHEN DID YOU DO THAT? WHEN DID YOU HAVE THAT CONVERSATION?
# 20 A: I BELIEVE THERE ARE MORE THAN ONE CONVERSATION.
# 21 Q: WELL, START AT THE FIRST ONE. LET'S TAKE WHEN THE FIRST ONE WAS THAT YOU HAD THIS CONVERSATION WITH MISS CLARK PREPARING YOU FOR YOUR REDIRECT EXAMINATION.
# 24 A: I DON'T RECALL. PERHAPS LAST WEEK.
# 25 Q: LAST WEEK, WHILE WE WERE OFF ON THIS CASE, THAT YOU HAD AN OCCASION TO TALK TO MISS CLARK DURING THAT TIME FRAME?
# 26 A: I BELIEVE IT WAS LAST WEEK.
# 27 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION.
# 28 THE COURT: WELL, COUNSEL, WE WEREN'T OFF FROM THIS CASE LAST WEEK.
# 29 MR. COCHRAN: WELL, WE WERE OFF -- THE JURY WASN'T HERE.
# 30 THE COURT: THE JURY -- ALL RIGHT.
# 31 MR. COCHRAN: SORRY. WE WERE WORKING, YES, YOUR HONOR. SO STIPULATED.
# 32 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: WHEN THE JURY WAS NOT HERE WITH US LAST WEEK, YOU HAD OCCASION TO TALK TO MISS CLARK ABOUT YOUR UPCOMING TESTIMONY; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 34 Q: AND WHERE DID THAT FIRST CONVERSATION TAKE PLACE?
# 35 A: I BELIEVE IT WAS HERE IN THE BUILDING.
# 36 Q: AND WAS ANYBODY ELSE PRESENT DURING THAT CONVERSATION?
# 37 A: I DON'T BELIEVE SO.
# 38 Q: NOW, JUST THE TWO OF YOU WERE TALKING?
# 39 A: WELL, THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT ARE CONSTANTLY MOVING IN AND OUT OF HER OFFICE.
# 40 Q: WELL, THE PRIMARY CONVERSATION WAS BETWEEN YOU AND SHE; IS THAT CORRECT, SIR?
# 41 A: WELL, THERE WERE ONE OR TWO CONVERSATIONS THAT I RECALL THAT WE HAD IN REGARDS TO REDIRECT. IT WAS PRIMARILY THE TWO OF US, YES.
# 42 Q: ALL RIGHT. AND THAT TOOK PLACE AS BEST YOU CAN RECALL LAST WEEK UP IN MISS CLARK'S OFFICE; IS THAT CORRECT, SIR?
# 44 Q: ALL RIGHT. WHAT DATE WAS THE FIRST CONVERSATION?
# 46 Q: WHAT DATE WAS THE SECOND CONVERSATION?
# 47 A: I DON'T RECALL WHAT DATE. IT WAS SOME DAY LAST WEEK.
# 48 Q: ONE DAY LAST WEEK?
# 49 A: I BELIEVE IT WAS LAST WEEK.
# 50 Q: AND DID YOU TALK ABOUT YOUR TESTIMONY YESTERDAY BEFORE YOU TOOK THE STAND FOR REDIRECT EXAMINATION?
# 51 A: I DON'T BELIEVE SO.
# 52 Q: DID YOU TALK ABOUT IT TODAY, THIS MORNING BEFORE WE STARTED ON THIS PART OF THE CASE?
# 53 A: THERE WAS SOME CONVERSATION, YES.
# 54 Q: AND THAT AGAIN WAS BETWEEN YOU AND MISS CLARK; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 56 Q: NOW, WITH REGARD TO THIS VIDEO THAT WE JUST SAW --
# 57 MR. COCHRAN: I WANT TO HAVE THAT VIDEO REPLAYED, IF I CAN, YOUR HONOR.
# 58 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
# 59 MR. COCHRAN: CAN WE HAVE THAT REPLAYED?
# 60 THE COURT: PEOPLE'S 101?
# 62 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: YOU HAVE SHARED BEFORE IT'S -- WELL, IT'S BEING PUT UP. YOU SHARED WITH US THAT THE BEST OF YOUR RECOLLECTION, THE SCENE WAS BROKEN DOWN ON JUNE 13 PERHAPS AT ABOUT 3:45 IN THE AFTERNOON; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 63 A: APPROXIMATELY, YES.
# 64 Q: SO, AS WE KNOW, POLICE OFFICERS WERE FREE TO WALK IN AND OUT AT THAT POINT?
# 65 MR. COCHRAN: HOLD IT.
# 66 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: POLICE OFFICERS WERE FREE TO WALK IN AND OUT OF THE SCENE AT THAT POINT; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 68 Q: AND WE ALSO KNOW THAT, ACCORDING TO YOUR TESTIMONY, THERE WAS SOME ALLEGED BLOOD SPOTS ON THE REAR GATE OF THIS PREMISES; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 70 Q: AND NO PHOTOGRAPHS WERE TAKEN OF THOSE BLOOD SPOTS ON JUNE 13TH; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 72 Q: AND NOBODY EVEN BOTHERED TO COME BACK AND YOU DIDN'T GO BACK AND EVEN CHECK UNTIL JULY 3RD, SOME THREE WEEKS LATER; ISN'T THAT RIGHT?
# 73 A: THE REAR GATE AREA, THAT'S CORRECT.
# 74 Q: YES. AND THAT SCENE HAD BEEN BROKEN DOWN ALL OF THAT TIME; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 76 Q: IN FACT, YOU CAME BACK ON AT LEAST TWO OR THREE OCCASIONS BETWEEN JUNE 13TH AND JULY 3RD AND YOU NEVER WENT BACK TO THE REAR; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 77 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. ASKED AND ANSWERED.
# 78 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 79 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: IS THAT CORRECT?
# 81 MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. NOW, LET US SEE THAT VIDEO, IF WE CAN.
# 82 (AT 10:40 A.M., PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT 101, A VIDEOTAPE, WAS PLAYED.) # 83 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DID MISS CLARK SHOW YOU THIS VIDEO LAST WEEK WHEN YOU WERE MEETING AND TALKING ABOUT YOUR REDIRECT EXAMINATION?
# 84 A: I DON'T BELIEVE I'VE EVER SEEN THIS VIDEO.
# 85 MR. COCHRAN: IT'S VERY DARK. CAN WE BACK IT UP, YOUR HONOR? CAN YOU BACK UP THE -- ALL RIGHT. NOW, LET'S STOP IT THERE.
# 86 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: THAT WHITE BLANKET OR SHEET, WAS THAT A BLANKET OR SHEET THAT HAD BEEN PLACED OVER MISS NICOLE SIMPSON'S BODY?
# 87 A: THAT APPEARS TO BE, YES.
# 88 Q: AND WHEN YOU ARRIVED AT THE SCENE AFTER YOU GOT THE CALL AND YOU FROM ROBBERY-HOMICIDE TOOK OVER THIS CASE, YOU FIRST ARRIVED THERE, WAS THE BLOOD IN AND AROUND MISS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON'S BODY STILL WET?
# 89 A: THERE WERE PARTS THAT I WOULD TERM AROUND HER ON THE PAVEMENT STICKY.
# 90 Q: ALL RIGHT. AND THAT BLANKET OR SHEET THERE WAS PLACED OVER HER BODY AT SOME POINT?
# 92 Q: AND DO YOU SEE THE RED PORTIONS ON THAT BLANKET OR SHEET WHICH IS WHITE?
# 94 Q: DOES THAT APPEAR TO YOU TO BE BLOOD?
# 96 Q: AND THAT BLANKET OR SHEET HAD BEEN ON TOP OF HER BODY AT SOME POINT?
# 97 A: EARLIER IN THE DAY, YES.
# 100 Q: AND YOU NEVER SAVED THAT BLANKET OR SHEET, DID YOU?
# 102 Q: DO YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THERE'S TRACE EVIDENCE ON THAT BLANKET OR SHEET?
# 104 Q: TRACE EVIDENCE FROM HER BODY.
# 105 A: I WOULD HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING WHAT WAS ON THAT BLANKET.
# 106 Q: AND YOU NEVER SAVED IT. WAS IT ULTIMATELY THROWN AWAY?
# 108 Q: NOW, YOU'RE NOT A CRIMINALIST, ARE YOU?
# 110 Q: AND YOU'RE NOT A DOCTOR, ARE YOU?
# 112 MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. LET'S CONTINUE ON WITH THE VIDEO.
(PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT 101, A VIDEOTAPE, CONTINUES PLAYING.) Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: WHEN'S THE LAST TIME YOU SAW THIS SHEET WITH THE BLOOD THEREON OR BLANKET?
# 113 A: MORNING OF THE 13TH.
# 114 Q: DO YOU KNOW WHATEVER HAPPENED TO IT?
# 116 Q: DID YOU EVER COME BACK TO THE SCENE ON JUNE 13TH AFTER YOU LEFT ABOUT 12:00 NOON?
# 117 A: I DON'T BELIEVE I RETURNED THAT DAY.
# 118 Q: ALL RIGHT. SO IF THIS TOOK PLACE, THIS VIDEO TOOK PLACE AT 3:45 OR THEREABOUTS, YOU WEREN'T EVEN THERE, WERE YOU, AT THAT POINT?
# 119 A: I DON'T KNOW WHAT TIME THE VIDEO TOOK PLACE.
# 120 Q: WELL, IF WE -- YOU JUST TOLD US THAT THE SCENE WAS BROKEN DOWN AT 3:45.
# 122 Q: SO I PRESUME THAT THE FIRST PART OF THE VIDEO STARTED AT 3:45. IS THAT A FAIR STATEMENT?
# 123 A: WELL, THIS PARTICULAR APPEARS TO BE A CUT AWAY. SO I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT TIME. THE LOG INDICATES IT WAS BROKEN AT 3:45. THIS IS OBVIOUSLY SOMETIME AFTER THAT.
# 124 Q: ALL RIGHT. BUT WE SAW AN OFFICER WITH THE -- TAKING THE YELLOW TAPE DOWN. DO YOU RECALL THAT?
# 126 Q: ALL RIGHT. SO DO YOU HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH THAT HAVING BEEN CLOSE TO 3:45?
# 127 A: AGAIN, APPROXIMATELY 3:45.
# 128 Q: AND YOU NEVER SAW ANY OF THIS, DID YOU, WHAT'S DEPICTED IN THE VIDEO?
# 130 (AT 1044 A.M., THE PLAYING OF THE VIDEOTAPE ENDED.) # 131 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. NOW, WITH REGARD TO OFFICERS AND THEIR FEET AND BLOOD, I WANT TO SHOW YOU A PHOTOGRAPH. YOU CAN STEP DOWN WITH THE COURT'S PERMISSION.
# 132 MR. COCHRAN: MAY HE STEP DOWN, YOUR HONOR?
# 134 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: WITH REGARD TO --
# 135 MR. COCHRAN: AND, YOUR HONOR, FOR THE RECORD, WE'RE LOOKING AT PLAINTIFF'S 54 AND THIS IS 54-2. 54-2, PHOTOGRAPH.
# 136 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: I WANT YOU TO LOOK AT 54-2 HERE -- AND MAKE SURE ALL THE JURORS CAN SEE IT. YOU SEE THIS RED SUBSTANCE KIND OF IN THE GROUT WAYS THERE OF THE TILE THERE? DO YOU SEE THAT?
# 138 MR. DARDEN: DID YOUR HONOR CUT THE FEED?
# 140 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: AND YOU SEE THIS SHOE, I BELIEVE IT'S A BLACK SHOE, APPEARS TO BE A BLACK MAN'S SHOE?
# 142 Q: AND SIMILAR TO THE SHOE YOU HAVE ON THERE, ISN'T IT?
# 144 Q: AND WE WON'T -- WELL, HAVE ANY PHOTOGRAPHS OF THOSE SHOES, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE THAT SHOE; DOES IT NOT?
# 145 A: APPEARS TO BE THE SAME TYPE OF SHOE, YES.
# 146 Q: ALL RIGHT. AND DO YOU SEE WHERE THAT -- APPEARS TO BE A RIGHT SHOE, DOESN'T IT? DO YOU SEE APPEARS TO BE A RIGHT SHOE; DOES IT NOT?
# 147 A: I CAN'T TELL FROM THAT ANGLE.
# 148 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. DETECTIVE, CAN YOU KEEP YOUR VOICE UP FOR THE COURT REPORTER?
# 149 DET. TOM LANGE: I -- I CAN'T TELL FROM THE ANGLE IF IT'S LEFT OR RIGHT.
# 150 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. YOU CAN'T TELL IF IT'S A RIGHT OR A LEFT SHOE?
# 152 Q: IT'S ONE OF THE SHOES; IS IT NOT? IT'S RIGHT OR LEFT, ISN'T IT?
# 154 Q: AND JUDGING WHERE THAT IS, IF THAT WAS A LEFT SHOE, WHERE WOULD THE PERSON BE STANDING?
# 155 A: PROBABLY OFF TO THE -- TO THE RIGHT HERE BY THE GATE (INDICATING).
# 157 A: OR THEY COULD BE STANDING AT AN ANGLE AT THE SIDE.
# 158 Q: ALL RIGHT. BUT YOU CAN'T TELL US THAT, CAN YOU?
# 160 Q: ALL RIGHT. BUT YOU CAN TELL US THAT THAT SHOE IS STANDING RIGHT ON TOP OF THE BLOOD THERE IN THAT GROUTING. YOU SEE THAT?
# 161 A: NO. IT APPEARS TO ME THAT IT COULD EITHER BE UP ON THE TOE OR PERHAPS THE ARCH.
# 162 Q: WELL, YOU'RE TELLING WHAT -- YOU'RE TELLING THIS JURY THAT -- THAT THIS SHOE -- THAT THIS PARTICULAR SHOE, THE PERSON IS ON HIS ARCH?
# 163 A: I'M NOT TELLING YOU. I'M SAYING I DON'T KNOW.
# 165 A: IT COULD BE ON THE TOE OR IT COULD BE OVER THE ARCH. FROM THAT ANGLE, FOR ME, IT'S A LITTLE HARD FOR ME TO TELL.
# 166 Q: ALL RIGHT. WELL, I UNDERSTAND THE JURY HAS TO MAKE THE FINAL DECISION, BUT LOOK AT THAT PHOTOGRAPH, SIR. TAKE A MOMENT AND LOOK.
# 168 Q: ALL RIGHT. DOES THAT LOOK AS THOUGH THE FRONT OF THAT SHOE, ALL OF THE PORTION THAT YOU CAN SEE ON THAT SHOE IS FLAT AGAINST THE TILE, SIR? ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 170 Q: YOU CAN'T TELL THAT?
# 171 A: NOT FROM THAT ANGLE.
# 172 Q: WOULD YOU AGREE THAT THERE'S BLOOD UNDERNEATH WHERE THAT SHOE IS?
# 173 A: APPEARS TO BE BLOOD IN THE GROUTING UNDERNEATH THE SHOE. BUT AS FAR AS THE SHOE GOES, WHETHER IT'S UNDERNEATH THE ARCH OR THAT PERSON IS UP ON THEIR TOE, I DON'T KNOW.
# 174 Q: WELL, DID YOU -- WHEN YOU WALKED AROUND THE SCENE, DID YOU WALK AROUND ON YOUR TIPPEE TOES THAT DAY?
# 175 A: I AT TIMES WERE -- WAS ON MY TOES, THAT'S EXACTLY CORRECT.
# 176 Q: AND WAS -- IS THIS YOU HERE?
# 179 A: AND I HAD NO BLOOD ON MY SHOES.
# 180 Q: ALL RIGHT. BUT WITH REGARD TO THIS PARTICULAR SHOE, YOU CAN'T TELL WHETHER THAT'S YOU OR FUHRMAN, CAN YOU?
# 182 Q: OR ANY OTHER DETECTIVE, CAN YOU?
# 183 A: I DON'T KNOW WHO IT IS.
# 184 Q: ALL RIGHT. AND YOU AGREE WITH ME, THE PICTURE -- THIS PHOTOGRAPH WILL SPEAK FOR ITSELF; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 185 MS. CLARK: WELL, OBJECTION. THAT'S ARGUMENTATIVE, YOUR HONOR.
# 186 THE COURT: SUSTAINED. WELL, CALLS FOR FOUNDATION ALSO.
# 187 MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT, YOUR HONOR.
# 188 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: AT ANY RATE, SO THAT WE'RE CLEAR, LOOKING AT 54-2, YOU CAN NOT TELL US WHETHER OR NOT THAT'S YOUR SHOE; IS THAT RIGHT?
# 190 Q: ALL RIGHT. AND YOU WILL AGREE, HOWEVER, THAT THE SHOE IS ON THE GROUTING AND UNDER THAT GROUTING, THERE'S BLOOD; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 193 A: I CAN NOT AGREE WITH YOU THAT THE SHOE IS ON THE GROUTING, IF THAT PARTICULAR PERSON IS UP ON THEIR FRONT TOES OR IF THE GROUTING IS BENEATH THE ARCHWAY OF THE SHOE. I CAN'T TELL YOU. I CAN'T TELL THAT FROM ANGLE, SIR.
# 194 Q: ALL RIGHT. BUT THERE IS BLOOD ON THE GROUTING; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 195 A: IT APPEARS TO BE, THAT'S CORRECT.
# 196 Q: THAT APPEARS TO BE?
# 197 A: THAT APPEARS TO BE BLOOD, THAT'S CORRECT.
# 198 Q: ALL RIGHT. AND YOU WERE OUT THERE THAT MORNING. YOU KNOW THERE WAS BLOOD IN THE GROUTING, DON'T YOU?
# 200 MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. YOUR HONOR, I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE THIS PHOTOGRAPH DOWN TO THE OTHER END SO THE OTHER JURORS CAN SEE IT ALSO.
# 201 THE COURT: CERTAINLY. MR. DOUGLAS, YOU WANT TO HELP US? PHOTOGRAPHERS ARE DIRECTED NOT TO ATTEMPT TO PHOTOGRAPH THIS EXHIBIT.
# 202 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: YOU MAY RESUME YOUR SEAT.
# 203 THE COURT: MR. DOUGLAS, COULD YOU TURN THE BOARD AROUND, PLEASE? THANK YOU. THANK YOU, SIR.
# 204 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: THAT PHOTOGRAPH WE WERE JUST REFERRING TO, NUMBER 54-2, WAS THAT TAKEN AT MARK FUHRMAN'S DIRECTION, IF YOU KNOW?
# 206 Q: WAS THAT PHOTOGRAPH TAKEN AT YOUR DIRECTION?
# 208 Q: WELL, DO YOU RECALL?
# 209 A: THAT SPECIFIC PHOTOGRAPH, NO.
# 210 Q: YOU DON'T RECALL WHO DIRECTED THAT PHOTOGRAPH TO BE TAKEN?
# 211 A: AGAIN, I DO NOT RECALL WHO DIRECTED THAT SPECIFIC PHOTOGRAPH TO BE TAKEN.
# 212 Q: DO YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT YOU WERE AT THE SCENE WHEN THAT PHOTOGRAPH WAS TAKEN?
# 213 A: I CAN'T SAY WHETHER I WAS OR NOT.
# 214 Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, DETECTIVE LANGE, WITH REGARD TO THE TENNIS SHOES -- AND YOU RECALL THE VIDEO WHERE YOU WERE SHOWN CARRYING THE TENNIS SHOES UNDER YOUR ARMS? REMEMBER THAT?
# 216 Q: AND IS THAT -- WERE YOU TRAINED TO DO THAT IN THE ACADEMY; IN CASE THERE'S TRACE EVIDENCE ON AN ITEM SUCH AS THAT, TO CARRY IT UNDER YOUR ARMS LIKE THAT?
# 217 A: I DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND THAT QUESTION.
# 218 Q: OKAY. LET ME SEE IF I CAN ASK IT ANOTHER WAY. WE SAW YOU IN THE VIDEO CARRYING THE TENNIS SHOES UNDER YOUR ARM. DO YOU RECALL THAT?
# 220 Q: WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE THAT AGAIN? WOULD THAT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION?
# 221 A: I RECALL THE VIDEO. I DON'T NEED TO SEE IT AGAIN.
# 222 Q: ALL RIGHT. AND THE WAY YOU WERE CARRYING THE TENNIS SHOES IN THE VIDEO, WERE YOU SEEKING AT THAT TIME TO PROTECT TRACE EVIDENCE WHICH MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE BEEN ON THOSE PARTICULAR SHOES?
# 223 A: TRACE EVIDENCE MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE BEEN A CONSIDERATION. THE REASON THAT I OBTAINED THOSE SHOES WAS TO HAVE RED STAINS CHECKED FOR THE POSSIBILITY OF BLOOD AND TO OBTAIN A SHOE SIZE.
# 224 Q: WE UNDERSTAND THAT. AND WE KNOW THERE WAS NO -- IT WAS NEGATIVE FOR BLOOD, RIGHT?
# 226 Q: ALL RIGHT. THE QUESTION WAS ABOUT TRACE EVIDENCE, SIR.
# 227 A: TRACE EVIDENCE, SIR, WAS NOT FOREMOST ON MY MIND.
# 228 Q: WELL, I UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT YOU ARE AN INVESTIGATOR. AND I UNDERSTAND IT MAY NOT HAVE BEEN FOREMOST ON YOUR MIND. BUT IF THERE WERE TRACE EVIDENCE ON THOSE PARTICULAR TENNIS SHOES, WOULDN'T THAT BE VALUABLE EVIDENCE EITHER TO EXONERATE OR TO INCULPATE MR. SIMPSON? ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 229 A: I THINK THAT'S ARGUMENTATIVE, BUT IT'S POSSIBLE. MAYBE NOT. I REALLY COULDN'T SAY.
# 230 Q: SINCE NOBODY IS OBJECTING, WHY DON'T YOU JUST TRY TO ANSWER THE QUESTION.
# 231 A: THAT'S MY ANSWER.
# 232 Q: ALL RIGHT. BUT YOU DON'T THINK THAT TRACE EVIDENCE WOULD HAVE BEEN RELEVANT IN THIS INSTANCE?
# 233 A: NO. I SAID IT COULD BE AND MAYBE IT COULDN'T BE.
# 234 Q: IN THE COURSE OF YOUR DISCUSSIONS WITH MISS CLARK, DID SHE TELL YOU AS -- THAT YOU NEED TO BE MORE AGGRESSIVE IN YOUR ANSWERS AT SOME POINT BECAUSE I WAS MAKING POINTS ON CROSS-EXAMINATION? DID SHE TELL YOU THAT?
# 236 Q: YES. BE MORE AGGRESSIVE IN YOUR RESPONSES.
# 237 A: I DON'T RECALL HER INSTRUCTING ME TO BE MORE AGGRESSIVE.
# 238 Q: WHAT WORD DID SHE USE?
# 239 A: I DON'T RECALL ANY WORD THAT SHE USED.
# 240 Q: DID MR. DARDEN USE THE WORD, "BE MORE AGGRESSIVE"?
# 241 A: I DON'T RECALL MR. DARDEN TELLING ME TO BE MORE AGGRESSIVE.
# 242 Q: ALL RIGHT. AT ANY RATE, YOU WEREN'T CONCERNED ABOUT TRACE EVIDENCE AS YOU CARRIED THESE TENNIS SHOES UNDER YOUR ARMS; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 243 A: TRACE EVIDENCE WAS NOT FOREMOST IN MY MIND UNDER THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES.
KEY QUOTE # 244 Q: THE QUESTION WAS, SIR -- PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTION -- WERE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT TRACE EVIDENCE WHEN YOU CARRIED THOSE TENNIS SHOES UNDER YOUR ARM?
# 245 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. ASKED AND ANSWERED.
# 246 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 247 DET. TOM LANGE: TRACE EVIDENCE WAS NOT FOREMOST IN MY MIND AT THAT TIME.
KEY QUOTE # 248 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: THAT'S NOT MY QUESTION. THE QUESTION WAS, WERE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT TRACE EVIDENCE?
# 249 A: IT WAS NOT FOREMOST IN MY MIND.
# 250 Q: WELL, IF THERE WERE BLOOD ON THOSE TENNIS SHOES AND YOU CARRIED THEM UNDER YOUR ARMS, WASN'T THERE A CHANCE YOU MIGHT WIPE THAT BLOOD OFF?
# 251 A: NOT FROM THE STAINS THAT I OBSERVED. THEY WERE ON THE TOP OF THE SHOE, ON THE SIDE OF THE SHOE, THEY APPEARED TO BE DRY. THOSE SHOES HAD BEEN SITTING IN THAT CLOSET ON THE FLOOR. THEY HAD BEEN IN OTHER PLACES OTHER THAN THE CRIME SCENE. TRACE EVIDENCE, BECAUSE OF THAT REASON, WAS NOT FOREMOST IN MY MIND.
# 252 Q: ALL RIGHT. WELL, LET'S LOOK AT THE VIDEO --
# 253 A: I OBTAINED THOSE SHOES TO OBTAIN A SHOE SIZE AND TO CHECK FOR THE PRESENCE OF BLOOD.
# 254 Q: YOU TOLD US THAT AND WE KNOW IT WAS NEGATIVE FOR BLOOD.
# 255 MR. COCHRAN: CAN WE SEE THE VIDEO? I WANT TO ASK SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT IT.
# 256 THE COURT: AND, MR. COCHRAN, WHICH DEFENSE EXHIBIT IS THIS?
# 257 MR. COCHRAN: WELL, YOUR HONOR, LET ME CHECK.
# 259 MR. COCHRAN: 1049 I'M ADVISED, YOUR HONOR. THANK YOU.
# 260 THE COURT: THANK YOU.
# 261 (AT 10:53 A.M., DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1049, A VIDEOTAPE, WAS PLAYED.) # 262 MR. COCHRAN: NOW -- STOP IT THERE.
# 263 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: YOU SEE HOW YOU ARE CARRYING THE TENNIS SHOES AT THAT POINT?
# 265 Q: AND AT THAT POINT, I KNOW TRACE EVIDENCE WAS NOT UPPERMOST IN YOUR MIND BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE SHOES AGAINST YOUR BODY THERE, DON'T YOU?
# 266 A: THEY'RE AGAINST MY ARM, YES.
# 267 Q: YES. AND IS THAT A WAY THAT YOU, AS AN EXPERIENCED INVESTIGATOR OF OVER 20 YEARS, LEARNED TO CARRY EVIDENCE?
# 268 A: THAT'S ONE WAY OF CARRYING EVIDENCE, YES.
# 269 Q: AND THAT -- YOU LEARNED TO CARRY IT THAT WAY, DID YOU, AT THE ACADEMY?
# 270 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. ARGUMENTATIVE.
# 271 DET. TOM LANGE: THERE'S NO -- THERE'S NO ONE WAY TO LEARN TO CARRY EVIDENCE.
# 272 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. BUT CERTAINLY YOU CARRIED IT ON THIS WAY ON THIS DATE; IS THAT RIGHT?
# 274 MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. CONTINUE ON.
# 275 THE COURT: HOLD ON. HOLD ON. HOLD ON.
# 276 MR. COCHRAN: PRINT THAT OUT, YOUR HONOR?
# 277 THE COURT: DO YOU WANT TO PRINT THAT OUT BECAUSE THE --
# 278 MR. COCHRAN: YES. YES. IT'S PART OF 1049 I KNOW?
# 280 MR. COCHRAN: PERHAPS MAKE THIS 1049-A?
# 282 MR. COCHRAN: PRINT THAT OUT, MR. HARRIS. THANK YOU.
# 283 (DEFT'S 1049-A FOR ID = PRINTOUT) # 284 (DEFENDANT'S 1049, A VIDEOTAPE, CONTINUES PLAYING.) # 285 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: IS THAT YOUR CLIPBOARD THAT YOU HAVE THOSE SHOES ON?
# 287 Q: THAT'S NOT A BOX, IS IT?
# 288 A: BOXES IN THE TRUNK.
# 289 Q: IT'S NOT A BOX, IS IT?
# 290 A: THAT'S A CLIPBOARD.
# 291 Q: ALL RIGHT. I THOUGHT SO.
# 292 MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, MR. HARRIS.
# 293 (AT 10:56 A.M., THE PLAYING OF THE VIDEOTAPE ENDED.) # 294 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, I THINK WE ALREADY ESTABLISHED THOSE TENNIS SHOES WERE THEN TAKEN BY YOU TO THE LAB THE NEXT MORNING ON JUNE 14TH, RIGHT?
# 296 Q: NOW, YOU'VE TESTIFIED THAT YOU SAW DETECTIVE -- CRIMINALIST FUNG AT THE ROCKINGHAM LOCATION SOMETIME AFTER 5:20 ON THE AFTERNOON OF JUNE 13TH; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 297 A: I DON'T RECALL THE TIME.
# 298 Q: WELL, WHAT TIME DO YOU THINK IT WAS?
# 299 A: I BELIEVE I ARRIVED AT APPROXIMATELY AT THAT TIME. I DON'T RECALL WHAT TIME I MIGHT HAVE SEEN HIM.
# 300 Q: SOMETIME AFTER 5:20, WOULD THAT BE A FAIR STATEMENT?
# 302 Q: WELL, YOU SAW HIM AFTER YOU GOT THERE, DIDN'T YOU?
# 303 A: I BELIEVE I DID.
# 304 Q: ALL RIGHT. AND AT THAT TIME, DID IT EVER OCCUR TO YOU AT ANY TIME BEFORE YOU LEFT TO GET IN YOUR CAR TO GO HOME TO GIVE THOSE TENNIS SHOES TO MR. FUNG SINCE ULTIMATELY THEY HAD TO GO TO THE LAB ANYWAY?
# 305 A: I BELIEVE MR. FUNG HAD LEFT BY THE TIME THAT I RETRIEVED THOSE TENNIS SHOES.
# 306 Q: THE QUESTION WAS, DID IT EVER OCCUR TO YOU TO GIVE THOSE TENNIS SHOES TO MR. FUNG IS THE QUESTION?
# 307 A: WELL, IF HE'S NOT THERE, I COULDN'T HAVE GIVEN THEM TO HIM. SO NO, IT WOULDN'T HAVE.
# 308 Q: ALL RIGHT. THE FACT THAT YOU COULD HAVE RECOVERED THE SHOES AND STAYED AROUND -- HE MAY HAVE BEEN THERE EARLIER. SO -- I'M NOT ARGUING WITH YOU. I'M JUST ASKING, DID IT EVER OCCUR TO YOU TO GIVE THOSE TENNIS SHOES TO MR. FUNG OR FOR THAT MATTER, ANY OTHER CRIMINALIST WHO MAY HAVE BEEN AT THAT SCENE?
# 309 A: MR. FUNG WAS NOT THERE WHEN THE SHOES WERE RECOVERED. SO CERTAINLY IT DID NOT OCCUR TO ME.
# 310 Q: WHAT TIME WERE THE SHOES RECOVERED?
# 311 A: I BELIEVE IT'S SOMETIME AFTER 6:00 OR 6:15.
# 312 Q: DO YOU HAVE A RECORD THAT INDICATES THAT?
# 313 A: THE TIME OF RECOVERY?
# 314 Q: OF RECOVERY OF THOSE SHOES. CAN YOU LOOK IN YOUR NOTES AND TELL US THAT?
# 316 Q: YOU'RE SPEAKING FROM YOUR OWN INDEPENDENT RECOLLECTION?
# 317 A: SPEAKING FROM MY RECOLLECTION. AND I DON'T RECALL SEEING MR. FUNG AT THAT LOCATION AT THAT TIME THAT I CAME DOWN AND LEFT.
# 318 Q: DO YOU KNOW WHAT TIME MR. FUNG LEFT THAT EVENING?
# 320 Q: HAVE YOU SEEN A LOG WHICH WOULD INDICATE WHAT TIME HE LEFT?
# 322 Q: DO YOU HAVE SUCH A LOG?
# 323 A: DO I HAVE A LOG?
# 324 Q: YES, WHEN HE LEFT.
# 325 A: I DON'T BELIEVE I DO.
# 326 Q: IN YOUR BOOKS THERE, DO YOU HAVE THE CRIMINALIST LOG WHICH WOULD INDICATE WHAT TIME FUNG LEFT ON JUNE 13 FROM THE ROCKINGHAM LOCATION?
# 327 A: I DON'T HAVE A CRIMINALIST LOG.
# 328 Q: ALL RIGHT. DO YOU HAVE A LOG WHICH INDICATES WHAT TIME YOU LEFT?
# 329 A: I DON'T KNOW IF THERE WAS A LOG THAT WAS TAKEN AT THAT TIME OR NOT.
# 330 Q: CAN YOU TAKE A LOOK -- CAN YOU TAKE A LOOK FOR US AND TELL US WHETHER YOU HAVE THAT?
# 331 A: CERTAINLY. YES. IT'S RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME.
# 332 MR. COCHRAN: MAY I APPROACH, YOUR HONOR?
# 334 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: FIRST OF ALL, DOES THAT LOG INDICATE WHAT TIME YOU RECOVERED THESE TENNIS SHOES?
# 335 A: NO. IT WOULDN'T INDICATE A TIME OF RECOVERY.
# 337 THE COURT: MAY I SEE COUNSEL AT THE SIDEBAR WITHOUT THE REPORTER, PLEASE?
# 338 MR. COCHRAN: CERTAINLY.
# 339 (A CONFERENCE WAS HELD AT THE BENCH, NOT REPORTED.) # 340 THE COURT: THANK YOU, COUNSEL. PROCEED.
# 341 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: THE LOG BEFORE YOU, WHAT TIME DOES THAT SHOW THAT YOU ARRIVED BACK AT THE LOCATION OF ROCKINGHAM? 1715?
# 342 A: IT SHOWS THAT I ARRIVED AT 5:15, YES.
# 343 Q: ALL RIGHT. 5:15. AND AS FAR AS YOU KNOW, FUNG WAS STILL THERE AT LEAST UNTIL 5:20; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 344 A: I -- I DON'T RECALL.
# 346 THE COURT: WHY DON'T YOU USE THE MICROPHONE. WHY DON'T YOU USE THE MICROPHONE.
# 347 MR. COCHRAN: CERTAINLY, YOUR HONOR. USE YOUR MICROPHONE.
# 348 DET. TOM LANGE: AGAIN, I DON'T RECALL.
# 349 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DID YOU EVER SEE VANNATTER GIVE CRIMINALIST FUNG MR. SIMPSON'S BLOOD THAT WAS CONTAINED IN A VIAL THAT HAD BEEN TAKEN DOWNTOWN HERE AT PARKER CENTER OUT AT ROCKINGHAM AT ABOUT 5:20 OR THEREABOUTS ON THE EVENING OF JUNE 13TH, 1994?
# 350 A: I DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE HIM DO THAT, NO.
# 351 Q: YOU NEVER SAW -- YOU WEREN'T PRESENT WHEN THAT HAPPENED OR IF IT HAPPENED?
# 352 A: I DON'T -- I DIDN'T -- I DON'T RECALL SEEING IT. I DON'T RECALL SEEING IT HAPPEN VISUALLY.
# 353 Q: ALL RIGHT. SO AT ANY RATE, WHAT TIME DOES IT SHOW YOU LEAVING THE ROCKINGHAM SCENE?
# 355 Q: ALL RIGHT. AND THAT REFRESHES YOUR RECOLLECTION, THAT'S ABOUT THE TIME THAT YOU LEFT?
# 357 Q: AND AT THAT TIME, YOU DON'T KNOW OR DO YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT FUNG HAD ALREADY LEFT AT THAT POINT?
# 358 A: NO. I DON'T RECALL SEEING HIM.
# 359 Q: ALL RIGHT. DID YOU TALK TO MR. FUNG AT ALL WHILE YOU WERE AT THE ROCKINGHAM LOCATION THAT AFTERNOON AFTER YOU CAME BACK AT 5:15, IF YOU RECALL?
# 360 A: I MAY HAVE HAD A CONVERSATION WITH HIM.
# 361 Q: AND WHERE WOULD THAT CONVERSATION HAVE TAKEN PLACE?
# 362 A: PROBABLY IN THE HOUSE UPSTAIRS IN THE MASTER BATH AREA.
# 363 Q: NOW, YOU AND I HAD SOME DISCUSSIONS REGARDING A GREEN PIECE OF PAPER INSIDE A BAG THAT CONTAINED MR. GOLDMAN'S CLOTHES. DO YOU RECALL THAT?
# 365 THE COURT: HOLD ON. LET ME TOSS THE GOLDMAN'S OUT.
# 366 (THE GOLDMAN FAMILY EXITS THE COURTROOM.) # 367 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. COCHRAN.
# 368 MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
# 369 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: AND PRIOR TO MY ASKING YOU QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT GREEN PIECE OF PAPER, HAD YOU EVER SEEN THAT BEFORE?
# 371 Q: AND DID YOU NOT TELL US THAT THAT -- THE ITEMS IN THAT GREEN PAPER BAG WERE RECOVERED BY OFFICERS TIPPIN AND CARR? DID YOU TELL US THAT, MR. GOLDMAN'S RESIDENCE?
# 372 A: I DON'T RECALL IF I DID. IF I DID TELL YOU THAT, THEN I MISSPOKE.
# 373 Q: WELL, MAYBE I CAN READ IT TO YOU. THAT IF YOU SAID THAT -- IF YOU SAID THE CLOTHES --
# 374 MS. CLARK: EXCUSE ME. MAY I SEE WHAT HE'S READING FROM?
# 376 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.) # 377 THE COURT: TRANSCRIPT FROM DAY BEFORE YESTERDAY.
# 378 MR. COCHRAN: HE HAS IT ON HIS COMPUTER AND I THINK I CAN GET IT ON HIS COMPUTER.
# 379 THE COURT: WE ALL HAVE IT ON OUR COMPUTER.
# 380 MS. CLARK: I JUST NEED A PAGE CITE OR SOMETHING. IF WE COULD ASK COUNSEL TO PRINT, IF THEIR COMPUTER WILL PRINT IT OUT.
# 381 THE COURT: I DON'T THINK IT'S ON THE NOTES YET.
# 383 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.) # 384 MS. CLARK: IT'S NOT THE OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT, YOUR HONOR.
# 385 MR. COCHRAN: THIS IS FROM HIS -- THIS IS FROM HIS COMPUTER. LET ME ASK YOU THIS QUESTION.
# 386 THE COURT: WELL, I'M GOING TO OVERRULE THE OBJECTION AT THIS POINT.
# 387 MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
# 388 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DO YOU RECALL BEING ASKED -- THIS IS THE DAY BEFORE YESTERDAY -- THIS QUESTION BY ME AND GIVING THIS RESPONSE? QUESTION AT LINE 26: "HOW WERE THESE CLOTHES RECOVERED AND WHAT IS THE CONNECTION OF THE BAG WITH THE CLOTHES? "ANSWER: ONCE AGAIN, THEY WERE RECOVERED BY DETECTIVES TIPPIN AND CARR." DO YOU REMEMBER SO TESTIFYING?
# 390 Q: AND YOU WENT ON TO SAY: "I WASN'T THERE. I COULDN'T ANSWER THAT. "QUESTION: BUT IT WAS BOOKED IN THE VONS PAVILION BAG ALONG WITH THIS ENVELOPE; IS THAT CORRECT? "ANSWER: APPARENTLY." REMEMBER SO TESTIFYING?
# 392 Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, IS THAT WHAT HAPPENED?
# 394 Q: BY TIPPIN AND CARR?
# 396 Q: IS THAT WHAT HAPPENED?
# 397 A: NO. THOSE CLOTHES WERE RECOVERED BY THE GOLDMAN FAMILY.
# 398 Q: SO YOU WANT TO CHANGE YOUR TESTIMONY UNDER OATH?
# 399 A: IF I MISSTATED THAT, THEN I MISSPOKE.
# 402 Q: SO TIPPIN AND CARR DIDN'T RECOVER THEM?
# 403 A: DID NOT. THE CLOTHING WAS RECOVERED BY THE GOLDMAN FAMILY.
# 404 Q: AND WHEN YOU WERE TESTIFYING THE OTHER DAY, WHEN YOU WERE UNDER OATH, YOU WERE TRYING TO BE AS ACCURATE AS YOU COULD; WERE YOU NOT?
# 405 A: I ALWAYS TRY TO BE AS ACCURATE AS I CAN.
# 406 Q: NOT WHAT YOU ALWAYS DO. THE OTHER DAY WHEN YOU TESTIFIED.
# 407 A: THE OTHER DAY, TODAY, ALWAYS.
# 408 Q: ALL RIGHT. BUT YOU WERE WRONG, RIGHT?
# 409 A: APPARENTLY I WAS.
# 410 Q: AND YOU SPELLED OUT FOR US THE OTHER DAY THAT YOU DO MAKE MISTAKES; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 411 A: JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, I CERTAINLY DO.
# 412 Q: WELL, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT EVERYBODY ELSE RIGHT NOW. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT YOU. YOU MAKE MISTAKES; IS THAT RIGHT?
# 414 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. ARGUMENTATIVE.
# 415 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 416 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: YOU MAKE MISTAKES; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 417 A: MR. COCHRAN, I MAKE MISTAKES.
KEY QUOTE # 420 Q: AND WITH REGARD TO THESE THEORIES THAT YOU EXPOUNDED YESTERDAY, YOU WILL AGREE WITH ME, WILL YOU NOT, THAT WITH REGARD TO WHAT HAPPENED ON JUNE 12TH IN THE LATE EVENING HOURS ULTIMATELY MUST BE DECIDED BY THIS JURY AND NOT BY YOUR THEORY? ISN'T THAT A FAIR STATEMENT?
# 421 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.
# 422 THE COURT: THAT'S ARGUMENTATIVE.
# 423 MR. COCHRAN: WELL, SEE IF I CAN RESTATE IT.
# 424 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. YOU WILL AGREE WITH ME, WILL YOU NOT, THAT AS TO THE FACTS OF THIS PARTICULAR CASE, THAT HAS TO BE DETERMINED --
# 425 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. ARGUMENTATIVE.
# 426 MR. COCHRAN: WELL, I WOULD LIKE TO FINISH THE QUESTION.
# 427 THE COURT: GO AHEAD. FINISH THE QUESTION.
# 428 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. YOU WILL AGREE WITH ME, WILL YOU NOT, THAT IT'S THE FACTS OF THIS PARTICULAR CASE -- THE FACTS IN THIS CASE MUST BE DETERMINED BY THE JURY?
# 429 MS. CLARK: THAT'S EXACTLY THE SAME QUESTION.
# 430 MR. COCHRAN: IT'S NOT THE EXACT SAME QUESTION.
# 431 THE COURT: OVERRULED. YES OR NO.
# 432 DET. TOM LANGE: YES.
# 433 THE COURT: A TRUISM.
# 434 MR. COCHRAN: RIGHT. ABSOLUTELY A TRUISM.
KEY QUOTE # 435 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW --
# 436 MS. CLARK: WE ALL KNOW THIS.
# 437 MR. COCHRAN: WELL, I AM NOT ASKING HER OPINION, YOUR HONOR.
# 438 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WELL, YOU GOT MINE. LET'S MOVE ON.
# 439 MR. COCHRAN: I GOT YOURS. I HAVE TO DEAL WITH YOURS, BUT NOT HERS.
# 440 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
# 441 MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU.
# 442 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, WITH REGARD TO YOUR -- YOUR -- YOUR THEORIES, YOU'VE BEEN WRONG AND MISTAKEN IN THIS CASE BEFORE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT? YOU MADE MISTAKES IN THIS CASE?
# 443 A: THERE WERE MISTAKES MADE.
# 444 Q: WELL, I KNOW THERE WERE MISTAKES MADE, BUT DID YOU MAKE ANY MISTAKES?
# 445 A: I BELIEVE YOU JUST POINTED ONE OUT IN MY TESTIMONY.
# 446 Q: WELL, THERE ARE OTHERS, AREN'T THERE? WHAT ABOUT -- LET ME JUST ASK YOU THIS REGARDING MISTAKES. THE BLOOD ON MISS NICOLE SIMPSON'S BACK, YOU SAW THAT AT THE SCENE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 448 Q: THAT BLOOD WAS NOT PRESERVED; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 449 A: THAT'S CORRECT. THE CORONER DID NOT PRESERVE THAT BLOOD.
# 450 Q: SO THAT WAS THE CORONER'S MISTAKE, NOT YOURS?
# 451 A: I'M NOT POINTING FINGERS AS TO WHOSE MISTAKE. I THINK THAT THERE'S A -- THERE WAS A COMMUNICATIONS PROBLEM CERTAINLY AT THE VERY LEAST.
# 452 Q: WELL, AS THE INVESTIGATOR IN THIS CASE, IF THAT WAS POSSIBLY IMPORTANT EVIDENCE THAT MAY HAVE LED TO EXCLUSION OF MR. SIMPSON, DO YOU THINK THAT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN GOOD TO COMMUNICATE THAT TO THE CORONER'S OFFICE SO THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN MAINTAINED AND PRESERVED AND TESTED?
# 453 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE. IT'S ARGUMENTATIVE.
# 454 MR. COCHRAN: HE'S TALKED ABOUT COMMUNICATION, YOUR HONOR.
# 455 THE COURT: IT'S OVERRULED. YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION.
# 456 DET. TOM LANGE: THAT WAS COMMUNICATED TO THE CORONER'S OFFICE.
# 457 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: AND WHO DID YOU COMMUNICATE THAT TO?
# 458 A: TO THE CORONER'S INVESTIGATOR AT THE SCENE.
# 459 Q: AND YOU COMMUNICATED -- YOU BOTH WERE SPEAKING ENGLISH; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 461 Q: AND THEN YOU FOUND OUT SOMETIME LATER THAT THOSE RESULTS OF THE BLOOD HAD NOT BEEN TESTED OR EXAMINED OR COLLECTED; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 463 Q: DID YOU TALK TO THE PERSON YOU SPOKE TO ABOUT THAT?
# 467 Q: AND WHAT'S THAT PERSON'S NAME?
# 468 A: I BELIEVE IT'S MAHANEY.
# 469 Q: MAHANEY, IS THAT A CRIMINALIST AT THE CORONER'S OFFICE?
# 471 Q: SO IT WAS MAHANEY'S FAULT?
# 472 A: I'M NOT SAYING WHOSE FAULT IT WAS.
# 473 Q: ALL RIGHT. WHAT ABOUT THE FAILURE TO PRESERVE THE STOMACH CONTENTS OF MISS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON? WHOSE FAULT WAS THAT, THAT THAT WAS THROWN OUT?
# 474 A: I DON'T KNOW THAT WAS ANYONE'S FAULT. I DO KNOW I'M NOT IN CHARGE OF STOMACH CONTENTS OR WHAT OCCURS AT THE CORONER'S OFFICE.
# 475 Q: WELL NOW, LET'S SEE. AS AN EXPERIENCED INVESTIGATOR, YOU KNOW THE IMPORTANCE OF STOMACH CONTENTS FROM THE STANDPOINT OF TRYING TO DETERMINE -- THE FACT IN DETERMINING TIME OF DEATH OF AN INDIVIDUAL AND YOU'RE THERE AT THE AUTOPSY. WOULDN'T YOU SUGGEST TO THE CORONERS THAT IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO SAVE THESE STOMACH CONTENTS? WOULDN'T YOU DO THAT?
# 476 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THAT IS NOT THIS WITNESS' JOB.
# 477 MR. COCHRAN: SHE'S TESTIFYING, YOUR HONOR. I OBJECT.
# 478 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 479 DET. TOM LANGE: NO.
# 480 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: YOU MAY ANSWER. YOU WOULDN'T SUGGEST THAT?
# 481 A: THAT'S THEIR CALL.
# 482 Q: ALL RIGHT. YOU NEVER SUGGESTED THAT IN THIS CASE?
# 483 A: I DON'T RECALL EVER SUGGESTING THE CORONER TO MAINTAIN ANY STOMACH CONTENTS IN ANY CASE.
# 484 Q: NOW, YOU WERE PRESENT WHEN DR. GOLDEN WAS DOING THIS AUTOPSY; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 486 Q: DO YOU UNDERSTAND ANY LOGIC AT ALL IN PRESERVING AND SAVING OF THE STOMACH CONTENTS OF MR. GOLDMAN WHILE NOT PRESERVING AND SAVING THE STOMACH CONTENTS OF NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON?
# 487 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. CALLS FOR SPECULATION.
# 488 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 489 DET. TOM LANGE: I SEE THE LOGIC IN EXAMINING BOTH CONTENTS AND THAT WAS DONE. AS FAR AS THEIR POLICIES ON PRESERVING STOMACH CONTENTS, I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH IT. I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG THEY DO THAT OR UNDER WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES. I JUST DON'T KNOW.
# 490 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: WELL NOW, YOU HAVE ATTENDED MORE THAN 250 AUTOPSIES IN YOUR LONG CAREER; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 491 A: NO, I DON'T THINK SO. IT'S PROBABLY MORE LIKE 150, SOMEWHERE IN THERE.
# 492 Q: 150 AUTOPSIES? AND IN THOSE CASES, WHERE TIME OF DEATH IS AT QUESTION, ISN'T IT ACCEPTED IN THE COMMUNITY OF INVESTIGATORS AND CRIMINALISTS THAT THE STOMACH CONTENTS ARE ONE IMPORTANT FACTOR IN HELPING US DETERMINE THE TIME OF DEATH, SIR?
# 493 MS. CLARK: SAME OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. OUTSIDE THIS WITNESS' FIELD OF EXPERTISE.
# 494 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 495 DET. TOM LANGE: YES OR NO. IT MAY BE AND IT MAY NOT BE. IT'S JUST IT'S ONE FACTOR AND IT'S NOT AN EXACT FACTOR IN DETERMINING DEATH -- THE TIME OF DEATH.
# 496 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: BUT IN THIS CASE, IT WAS THROWN AWAY. SO WE DON'T HAVE IT AT ALL AND THAT'S THE POINT. ISN'T THAT A MISTAKE?
# 497 A: I CAN'T SAY WHAT'S A MISTAKE. I KNOW THAT IT WAS EXAMINED. AND TO ME, IT WOULD BE MUCH MORE IMPORTANT TO EXAMINE THOSE CONTENTS AND MAKE A DETERMINATION JUST HOW FULL THE STOMACH WAS.
# 498 Q: AND WHO EXAMINED --
# 499 A: AS FAR AS RETAINING THOSE CONTENTS, AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEIR POLICIES ARE.
# 500 Q: IF THE CORONER'S OFFICE ADMITS THAT'S A MISTAKE, WOULD YOU AGREE THAT'S A MISTAKE SINCE IT'S THEIR FIELD?
# 501 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. ARGUMENTATIVE.
# 502 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
# 503 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, TALKING ABOUT OTHER MISTAKES, WITH REGARD TO YOUR REPORT WHICH INDICATED THAT YOU BOOKED TWO DIMES AND TWO PENNIES, DO YOU RECALL THAT?
# 505 Q: AND IN FACT, YOU TOLD US ON THE STAND HERE YOU ONLY BOOKED ONE DIME AND ONE PENNY; IS THAT RIGHT?
# 506 A: I DIDN'T BOOK EITHER. THEY WERE BOOKED BY THE CRIMINALIST. I INADVERTENTLY WROTE DOWN TWO DIMES AND TWO PENNIES WHEN IN EFFECT IT WAS ONLY ONE DIME AND ONE PENNY.
# 507 Q: IS THAT A MISTAKE?
# 508 A: I'D CERTAINLY CALL IT A MISTAKE, YES.
# 509 Q: WHEN YOU TOLD US UNDER OATH THAT YOU HAD SEEN THESE BLOOD SPOTS ON THE REAR GATE AT BUNDY, YET NO PHOTOGRAPHS WERE TAKEN OF THOSE BLOOD SPOTS ON JUNE 13TH, 1994, WOULD YOU CONSIDER THAT A MISTAKE?
# 510 A: THAT AGAIN WAS PROBABLY A PROBLEM WITH COMMUNICATIONS. AT A CRIME SCENE, THE CRIMINALIST, THE PRINT PEOPLE, THE PHOTOGRAPHERS, THE OTHER DETECTIVES ARE ALL GIVEN ASSIGNMENTS. THE DETECTIVE IN CHARGE, WHILE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OVERALL PERFORMANCE, CAN'T FOLLOW EACH TECHNICIAN AROUND AND MAKE SURE THAT THEY DO EVERY LITTLE THING THAT THEY ASK OF THEM. SO YOU ASSIGN OUT JOBS; AND THAT PARTICULAR ASSIGNMENT CAME UNDER THE PURVIEW OF THE CRIMINALIST. UNFORTUNATELY, IT WAS NOT DONE.
# 511 Q: NOW TO GET BACK TO MY QUESTION, WAS THAT A MISTAKE THAT WASN'T DONE? THAT WAS THE QUESTION.
# 512 A: WAS THAT THE MISTAKE OF MINE?
# 513 Q: I DIDN'T ASK WHOSE MISTAKE. I SAID, WAS THAT A MISTAKE, DETECTIVE LANGE?
# 514 A: I WOULD CALL THAT A MISTAKE, PROBLEM WITH THE COMMUNICATIONS.
# 515 Q: ALL RIGHT. AND IN FACT, THERE WERE PHOTOGRAPHS TAKEN OF SOME SPOT ON THE FRONT GATE, ISN'T THAT CORRECT, WHICH WE SAW YESTERDAY, NUMBER 116?
# 517 Q: ALL RIGHT. BUT THEY WEREN'T TAKEN OF THE REAR GATE, RIGHT?
# 519 Q: NOW, THAT WAS A MISTAKE, BUT THAT WAS SOMEONE ELSE'S MISTAKE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 520 A: YOU COULD CHARACTERIZE IT AS A MISTAKE, YES.
# 521 Q: NOW, YOU WOULD AGREE WITH ME, WOULD YOU NOT, THAT SINCE YOU'RE THE LEAD INVESTIGATOR IN CHARGE AT BUNDY OF THIS PARTICULAR CASE, SOME OF THIS FALLS ON YOUR SHOULDERS ALSO; DOES IT NOT?
# 523 Q: NOW, BY THE WAY, THE DIME AND THE PENNY WERE FOUND ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE JEEP VEHICLE; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 525 Q: AND YOU WERE ASKED SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT TIRE TRACK MARKS. DO YOU RECALL THAT YESTERDAY?
# 527 Q: AND MISS CLARK SHOWED YOU A PHOTOGRAPH OF THE -- OF THAT ALLEYWAY WHERE IT WAS ASPHALT OR WHATEVER, SOME KIND OF BLACK SUBSTANCE. DO YOU RECALL SEEING THAT?
# 529 Q: NOW, THE AREA, HOWEVER, WHERE THE TIRE TRACK MARKS WERE WAS NOT IN THE ALLEYWAY. THAT WAS A DIFFERENT KIND OF MATERIAL BEHIND THE GARAGE AREA OF MISS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON'S RESIDENCE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 530 A: THERE WERE TIRE TRACKS ON THAT AREA, YES.
# 531 Q: ALL RIGHT. AND I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU TWO PHOTOGRAPHS IN SEQUENCE AND ASK YOU SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT IT.
# 532 MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, WE'RE GOING TO SHOW IF THE COURT PLEASES DEFENSE 1032 AND DEFENSE 1033, AND I WANT TO ASK HIM QUESTIONS ABOUT THOSE TWO BY USE OF THE ELMO.
# 533 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: FIRST OF ALL, CAN YOU SEE -- WE TRIED TO PLACE THEM IN JUST THE POSITION TO EACH OTHER AND SEQUENTIALLY. THEY'RE ON THE ELMO NOW TOO. CAN YOU SEE WHAT APPEAR TO BE --
# 534 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION TO THE CHARACTERIZATION OF SEQUENTIAL.
# 535 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
# 536 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. WE PLACED THEM, THE TWO PHOTOGRAPHS TOGETHER. AND DO YOU SEE WHAT APPEARS TO BE TIRE TRACKS ON THOSE TWO PHOTOGRAPHS, 1032 AND 1033?
# 537 A: APPEARS TO BE, YES.
# 538 Q: ALL RIGHT. AND DO YOU SEE ALSO WHERE THE COINS FROM THOSE TWO DIFFERENT PHOTOGRAPHS -- WHICH ARE LAPD PHOTOGRAPHS, RIGHT?
# 539 A: I WOULD SAY SO, YES.
# 540 Q: THAT THOSE COINS HAVE BEEN MOVED, THEY'RE IN A DIFFERENT POSITION?
# 541 A: THEY APPEAR TO BE.
# 542 Q: ALL RIGHT. DID YOU EVER, AS THE LEAD INVESTIGATOR AT BUNDY, DO ANYTHING TO TRY AND CHECK OR TO CHECK OUT THOSE TIRE TRACK MARKS THERE?
# 543 A: I OBSERVED THE TIRE TRACKS WHEN I WAS THERE AND FORMED AN OPINION.
# 544 Q: I DIDN'T ASK YOU ABOUT THAT. I SAID, DID YOU EVER DO ANYTHING -- DID YOU CALL ANY EXPERTS OUT --
# 545 A: THAT WAS WHAT I DID.
# 546 Q: YOU CALLED AN EXPERT OUT?
# 547 A: NO. I FORMED AN OPINION THAT AN EXPERT WAS NOT NEEDED.
KEY QUOTE # 548 Q: ALL RIGHT. SO YOU MADE THAT JUDGMENT YOURSELF; IS THAT RIGHT?
# 550 Q: AND ARE YOU IN ADDITION TO BEING THE HOMICIDE INVESTIGATOR ALSO A TIRE TRACK EXPERT ALSO?
# 551 A: I KNOW WHEN TIRE TRACKS HAVE BEEN RUN OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND THAT THIS IS A VERY COMMONLY USED AREA BACK HERE FOR TIRES AND THAT YOU CAN'T TELL THE AGE OF A TIRE TRACK AND THAT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN FRUITLESS TO GO ANY FURTHER WITH IT.
# 552 Q: AND DID YOU EVER TALK TO AN EXPERT ABOUT THAT?
# 553 A: I KNOW OF NO EXPERT IN TIRE TRACKS. I KNOW OF CRIMINALISTS AND PHOTOGRAPHERS WHO COULD HAVE PHOTOGRAPHED THIS. BUT ASIDE FROM THAT --
# 554 Q: DID YOU TALK TO THEM AT ALL?
# 555 A: NO. REGARDING THE TIRE TRACKS? NO.
# 556 Q: YES. WHAT YOU DID, YOU MADE A VISUAL OBSERVATION AND YOU GAVE US -- YOU'VE GIVEN US YOUR OPINION NOW THAT THERE'S NO RELEVANCE IN THIS PARTICULAR EVIDENCE. IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE TELLING US, SIR?
# 557 A: THIS IS A DRIVEWAY THAT'S VERY COMMON TO SEE TIRE TRACKS TRANSPOSED OVER BY ANOTHER --
# 558 Q: I'M ASKING YOU WHETHER THERE'S RELEVANCE IN THIS EVIDENCE, YOUR HONOR.
# 559 A: THAT'S MY OPINION.
# 560 THE COURT: WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT. MR. COCHRAN, LET THE WITNESS ANSWER BEFORE YOU START ASKING THE NEXT QUESTION.
# 561 MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. I WAS TRYING TO GET TO THE QUESTION, YOUR HONOR.
# 562 DET. TOM LANGE: MY OPINION --
# 563 THE COURT: HOLD ON. HOLD ON. ONE AT A TIME.
# 564 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: LET ME ASK YOU AGAIN. YOU LOOKED AT THESE TIRE TRACKS DEPICTED ON 1032 AND 1033 AND YOU MADE A DECISION THAT YOU DIDN'T NEED TO TALK TO ANY FURTHER EXPERT ABOUT THIS. YOU GAVE US YOUR OWN OPINION IN THAT REGARD; IS THAT CORRECT, SIR?
# 566 Q: ALL RIGHT. AND -- BY THE WAY, COULD THESE PHOTOGRAPHS SHOW DIFFERENT DIMES AND PENNIES?
# 567 A: COULD THEY SHOW DIFFERENT?
# 568 Q: YES. ARE THOSE DIFFERENT DIMES AND PENNIES OR ARE THOSE THE SAME IF YOU KNOW?
# 569 A: THEY'RE IN A DIFFERENT POSITION. SO I CAN'T SAY FOR SURE.
# 570 Q: BUT YOU TOLD US YOU ONLY BOOKED ONE DIME AND ONE PENNY, RIGHT?
# 571 A: THE CRIMINALIST BOOKED ONE DIME AND ONE PENNY.
# 572 Q: ALL RIGHT. BUT WHAT DID YOU SEE OUT THERE THAT NIGHT?
# 573 A: MY RECOLLECTION IS ONE DIME AND ONE PENNY.
# 574 Q: BUT YOU WROTE TWO DIMES AND TWO PENNIES; IS THAT RIGHT?
# 575 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. ASKED AND ANSWERED.
# 576 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 577 DET. TOM LANGE: I WROTE TWO DIMES AND TWO PENNIES INCORRECTLY. I OBSERVED ONE DIME AND ONE PENNY IN THE DRIVEWAY.
# 578 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: CAN YOU TELL US IN LOOKING AT THE MONITOR WHETHER OR NOT THERE ARE TREAD MARKS UNDER THESE COINS?
# 579 A: I CAN'T SEE UNDER THE COINS.
# 580 Q: COULD YOU TELL WHETHER OR NOT THERE WERE TREAD MARKS OVER THE TOP OF THE COINS?
# 581 A: DIDN'T APPEAR TO ME TO BE.
# 582 Q: AND YOU SAW IT WITH YOUR NAKED EYE, DID YOU?
# 583 A: I OBSERVED THE COINS WITH MY NAKED EYE, YES.
# 584 Q: ALL RIGHT. THESE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT, 1032 AND 1033, WERE TAKEN WHILE YOU WERE THERE OR AT SOME LATER TIME, IF YOU KNOW?
# 585 A: I WOULD SAY THE TOP ONE WAS PROBABLY TAKEN WHILE I WAS NOT THERE. AS FAR AS THE BOTTOM ONE, IT'S HARD TO SAY.
# 586 Q: YOU DON'T RECALL?
# 587 A: WELL, I WAS DOING A LOT OF THINGS AND A LOT OF OTHER PLACES.
# 588 Q: DO YOU RECALL IS THE QUESTION.
# 589 A: I DO NOT SPECIFICALLY RECALL THAT BOTTOM PHOTOGRAPH BEING TAKEN, NO.
# 590 Q: AND WITH REGARD HOWEVER TO THE MATERIAL WITH REGARD TO THE TIRE TRACKS, WHEN YOU WERE TALKING YESTERDAY ABOUT ASPHALT, THIS IS NOT ASPHALT BACK THERE, IS IT?
# 591 A: NO. THAT APPEARS TO BE CEMENT.
# 592 Q: SOME KIND OF CEMENT; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 594 Q: NOW, YOU WERE ASKED YESTERDAY SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT YOUR TAKING EVIDENCE AND HOLDING IT SOMEPLACE AND NOT BOOKING IT FOR A PERIOD OF TIME. AGAIN, YOUR LAPD MANUAL, WHICH YOU USE AS A GUIDE, DIRECTS YOU TO BOOK EVIDENCE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 596 Q: AND WHERE IN YOUR -- IN THE MANUAL DOES IT SAY THAT YOU CAN TAKE AN ITEM LIKE A PLASTIC HEART AND PUT IT AT ROBBERY-HOMICIDE FOR SEVEN WEEKS? IS THERE A PARTICULAR SECTION THAT TELLS YOU YOU CAN DO THAT?
# 597 A: I DON'T KNOW OF ANY SECTION.
# 598 Q: BECAUSE THERE IS NO SECTION THAT SAYS THAT, IS THERE?
# 599 A: THAT SAYS THAT I CAN KEEP A PLASTIC HEART?
# 600 Q: WELL, THAT SAYS YOU CAN KEEP ANY ITEM OF EVIDENCE FOR SEVEN WEEKS WITHOUT BOOKING IT INTO EVIDENCE IN THIS CASE.
# 601 A: THERE'S NOTHING TO SAY THAT I CAN'T.
KEY QUOTE # 602 Q: IN OTHER WORDS, YOU COULD TAKE EVERY PIECE OF EVIDENCE IN THIS CASE AND HOLD ON TO IT FOR SEVEN WEEKS IF YOU WANT IN A MANUAL THAT SAYS YOU SHOULD BOOK EVIDENCE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE TELLING US?
# 603 A: I THINK IT'S A COMMON SENSE CALL. CERTAINLY I WOULDN'T KEEP EVERY BIT OF EVIDENCE IN THIS CASE. THE EVIDENCE IN THIS CASE WAS COLLECTED BY CRIMINALISTS WHO BOOKED IT.
# 604 Q: WE'RE TALKING ABOUT EVIDENCE. LET'S TALK ABOUT THE PLASTIC HEART THAT WAS NOT BOOKED UNTIL WELL INTO AUGUST. IT WAS TAKEN ON OR ABOUT JUNE 13TH, 1994; IS THAT RIGHT?
# 606 Q: AND IN THAT INSTANCE -- AND LET'S TALK ABOUT COMMON SENSE AND THE MANUAL. IN THAT INSTANCE, YOU WOULD NOT HOLD EVIDENCE OUT GENERALLY FOR THAT LONG. ISN'T THAT A FAIR STATEMENT?
# 607 A: THERE WOULD BE A PURPOSE THAT I WOULD HOLD ANY EVIDENCE OUT. CERTAINLY THE EVIDENCE COLLECTED AT THE CRIME SCENE SAVE THAT PLASTIC HEART WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN HELD OUT BY ME AND INDEED WAS COLLECTED AND BOOKED BY THE CRIMINALISTS.
# 608 Q: WELL, WHAT ABOUT THE EVIDENCE THAT YOU TALKED ABOUT YESTERDAY THAT WAS TAKEN ON THE 13TH BUT NOT BOOKED TILL THE 15TH? WHAT HAPPENED OVER THE 14TH IF YOU KNOW?
# 609 A: WHAT EVIDENCE WOULD THAT BE?
# 610 Q: WELL, YOU TALKED ABOUT EVIDENCE YESTERDAY THAT MISS CLARK WAS ASKING YOU QUESTIONS YOU REMEMBER THAT WAS SEIZED ON THE 13TH, IT SHOWED A DATE OF BEING BOOKED ON THE 15TH I THOUGHT.
# 611 A: THAT'S CORRECT. THAT IS THE ACTUAL DATE THAT IT WAS PHYSICALLY BOOKED INTO THE PROPERTY DIVISION.
# 612 Q: MY QUESTION WAS, WHAT HAPPENED ON THE 14TH WHICH WAS THE DAY IN BETWEEN, SIR?
# 613 A: ON THE 14TH, I BELIEVE THE CRIMINALIST WHO HAD POSSESSION OF THAT EVIDENCE WAS BUSY DOING OTHER THINGS ON THIS CASE.
# 614 Q: DID THE CRIMINALIST TELL YOU THAT?
# 615 A: DID HE TELL ME HE WAS?
# 616 Q: WERE YOU TOLD THAT?
# 617 A: I AM AWARE THAT HE WAS.
# 618 Q: ALL RIGHT. IS THAT YOUR SPECULATION, THAT THEY WERE DOING OTHER THINGS?
# 620 Q: DO YOU KNOW THE REASON IT WAS NOT BOOKED ON THE 14TH, SIR?
# 621 A: THE REASON IN MY MIND WAS THE FACT THAT THIS CRIMINALIST WAS DOING OTHER THINGS AND I BELIEVE AT THAT DATE WORKING ON THE BRONCO. THERE WAS ALSO DOZENS AND DOZENS OF PIECES OF EVIDENCE THAT HAVE TO BE CATEGORIZED, WRITTEN UP, MEASURED, REPORTS HAVE TO BE PREPARED BEFORE THIS IS ACTUALLY PHYSICALLY BOOKED INTO EVIDENCE.
# 622 Q: WERE YOU TOLD THAT BY THE CRIMINALISTS IS MY QUESTION.
# 623 A: WAS I TOLD WHAT?
# 624 Q: DID THE CRIMINALISTS TELL YOU THEY WERE BUSY ON THE 14TH AND THAT'S WHY THEY DIDN'T BOOK THE EVIDENCE UNTIL THE 15TH?
# 626 Q: ALL RIGHT. YOU'RE JUST -- THAT'S JUST YOUR OPINION YOU JUST GAVE US?
# 627 A: THAT'S MY INFORMATION. I WAS AWARE THAT HE WAS DOING OTHER THINGS.
# 628 Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, WHAT ABOUT THESE CAUCASIAN HAIRS ON THE GLOVES THAT WE TALKED ABOUT? YOU INDICATED THERE WERE CAUCASIAN HAIRS ON BOTH GLOVES; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 629 A: I BELIEVE YOU INDICATED THAT.
# 630 Q: WELL, I ASKED YOU IF YOU DIDN'T KNOW THAT AS THE LEAD INVESTIGATOR IN THIS CASE.
# 631 A: I'M AWARE THAT THERE WERE CAUCASIAN HAIRS.
# 632 Q: ON BOTH GLOVES; IS THAT CORRECT? HAVE ANY TESTS BEEN DONE --
# 633 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. OBJECTION. COUNSEL IS NOT ALLOWING THE WITNESS TO ANSWER.
# 634 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 635 MR. COCHRAN: I JUST FINISHED.
# 636 THE COURT: PROCEED.
# 637 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY TESTS THAT HAVE BEEN DONE ON THESE CAUCASIAN HAIRS THAT WERE ON THE GLOVES?
# 638 A: I BELIEVE THERE HAVE BEEN.
# 639 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. COUNSEL ASKED THE QUESTION -- COULD I ASK THE COURT TO LOOK AT THE LAST -- DOES THE COURT HAVE A TIME STAMP ON IT?
# 640 THE COURT: NO. ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY TESTS THAT HAVE BEEN DONE ON THESE CAUCASIAN HAIRS THAT WERE ON THE GLOVES.
# 641 MR. COCHRAN: IS THE QUESTION.
# 642 MS. CLARK: GOING BACK. MAY WE APPROACH, YOUR HONOR?