Redirect examination of Rachel Ferrara (part 1)

📄 Redirect examination of Rachel Ferrara (part 1) — Tuesday, March 28, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\MAR\28\REDIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-RACHEL.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 46 of 167

◀ Off-record discussion Court directive ▶

Witness: Rachel Ferrara
Examiner: Marcia Clark
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Tuesday, March 28, 1995 • Utterances: 147

Marcia Clark conducts redirect examination of Miss Ferrara, a former girlfriend of Kato Kaelin, clarifying why she has a lawyer (a planned civil suit against Time Magazine for allegedly misquoting her preliminary hearing testimony). Clark also rehabilitates Ferrara's timeline testimony, pinning down two certain times — 10:30 PM when she asked Kato the time, and approximately 11:05 PM — while Ferrara clarifies her other estimates were 'approximate within a minute or two.'

# 1

REDIRECT EXAMINATION

# 2

BY MS. CLARK:

# 3 Q:

MISS FERRARA, WHY DO YOU HAVE A LAWYER?

# 4 A:

WHY DO I HAVE A LAWYER?

# 5 Q:

RIGHT.

# 6 A:

FOR A CIVIL SUIT.

# 7 Q:

WHO ARE YOU SUING?

# 8 A:

TIME MAGAZINE -- WELL, IT HASN'T BEEN FILED.

# 9 Q:

BUT YOU ARE PLANNING TO?

# 10 A:

YES.

# 11 Q:

AND WHY IS THAT?

# 12 A:

BECAUSE THEY SAID I LIED.

KEY QUOTE

# 13 Q:

AND WHAT DID THEY SAY YOU LIED ABOUT?

# 14 MR. COCHRAN:

JUST A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR. MAY WE JUST APPROACH FOR AN OFFER OF PROOF? IT MAY BE RELEVANT. I JUST WANT TO APPROACH OR TALK TO MISS CLARK.

# 15 THE COURT:

WHY DON'T YOU CHAT WITH MISS CLARK FIRST.

# 16 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

# 17 MR. COCHRAN:

WE WORKED IT OUT.

# 18 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, COUNSEL. PROCEED.

# 19 Q:

BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU REMEMBER THE QUESTION?

# 20 A:

NO.

# 21 Q:

OKAY. WHAT DID THEY SAY YOU LIED ABOUT?

# 22 A:

MY PRELIMINARY TESTIMONY.

# 23 Q:

IN WHAT RESPECT?

# 24 A:

WELL, BASICALLY THEY SAID I LIED ABOUT, UMM -- THEY SAID THAT I SAID THAT KATO TOLD ME THAT HE WENT OUTSIDE AND SAW NO ONE.

# 25 Q:

WENT OUTSIDE AND SAW NO ONE?

# 26 A:

RIGHT, DURING THE COURSE WHEN HE WENT OUTSIDE.

# 27 Q:

IN OTHER WORDS --

# 28 A:

THE FIRST TIME?

# 29 Q:

THEY WERE REPORTING YOU HAD SAID THAT KATO TOLD YOU WHEN HE WENT OUT TO INVESTIGATE THE NOISES THERE WAS NO ONE OUTSIDE?

# 30 A:

CORRECT.

# 31 Q:

AND YOU HAD NEVER SAID THAT?

# 32 A:

NO.

# 33 Q:

AND THAT IS WHY YOU HAVE A LAWYER TODAY?

# 34 A:

THAT AND MORAL SUPPORT BASICALLY.

# 35 Q:

OKAY. ARE YOU PAYING HIM?

# 36 A:

IT IS ON A CONTINGENCY BASIS.

# 37 MR. SIGELMAN:

YOUR HONOR, SHE IS REPRESENTED BY COUNSEL, AND TO THE EXTENT THAT QUESTIONS CALL FOR PRIVILEGED INFORMATION, SHE DOES RAISE THE PRIVILEGE. MY NAME IS PAUL SIGELMAN AND I REPRESENT MISS FERRARA.

# 38 THE COURT:

COUNSEL, IF YOU WOULD DROP YOUR CARD OFF WITH THE CLERK BEFORE YOU LEAVE THIS MORNING, I WOULD APPRECIATE THAT.

# 39 MS. CLARK:

THERE WILL BE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT THE FEE ARRANGEMENT.

# 40 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, COUNSEL.

# 41 Q:

BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. YOU INDICATED, MISS FERRARA THAT -- WELL, LET ME ASK YOU ONE FURTHER QUESTION. HAVE YOU TOLD US THE TRUTH TODAY, MISS FERRARA?

# 42 A:

I'M SORRY.

# 43 Q:

HAVE YOU TOLD US THE TRUTH TODAY?

# 44 A:

YES.

# 45 Q:

AND DID YOU TELL THE TRUTH AT THE PRELIMINARY HEARING?

# 46 A:

YES.

# 47 Q:

YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF MR. KAELIN'S CREDIBILITY, MA'AM, IS THAT BASED ON YOUR INTERACTION WITH HIM?

# 48 A:

MOSTLY, YES.

# 49 Q:

OKAY. HOW OFTEN DO YOU SEE HIM CURRENTLY?

# 50 A:

CURRENTLY? UMM, NEVER. I MEAN HERE, BUT NEVER.

# 51 Q:

OKAY. YOU RAN INTO HIM HERE IN COURT, DID YOU?

# 52 A:

YES.

# 53 Q:

ALL RIGHT. OTHER THAN THAT --

# 54 A:

I HAVE SEEN HIM OUT A COUPLE OF TIMES, BUT WE DON'T REALLY TALK VERY MUCH.

# 55 Q:

AND HOW LONG DID YOU DATE HIM FOR?

# 56 A:

UMM, I WOULD SAY UNTIL THE BEGINNING OF JULY, SO FROM MARCH -- WELL, ACTUALLY APRIL TO JULY.

# 57 Q:

OKAY. OF '94?

# 58 A:

YES.

# 59 Q:

ALL RIGHT. AND AFTER JULY DID YOU -- YOU STOPPED DATING HIM?

# 60 A:

YES.

# 61 Q:

AND HOW OFTEN DID YOU SEE HIM AFTER YOU STOPPED DATING HIM?

# 62 A:

WE TALK ON THE PHONE MOSTLY BUT NOT VERY OFTEN. IT DEPENDS. SOMETIMES ONCE A WEEK, SOMETIMES A COUPLE TIMES.

# 63 Q:

WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU SPOKE TO HIM ON THE PHONE?

# 64 A:

THE LAST TIME? I TALKED TO HIM BRIEFLY THE OTHER DAY.

# 65 Q:

OKAY. ABOUT YOUR COURT APPEARANCE?

# 66 A:

A LITTLE BIT. NO, NOT REALLY. I JUST SAID -- I WAS JUST WISHING HIM LUCK KIND OF.

# 67 Q:

WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME BEFORE THAT?

# 68 A:

OH, I DON'T KNOW. A WHILE AGO, A COUPLE WEEKS AGO MAYBE.

# 69 Q:

OKAY. AND PRIOR TO THAT?

# 70 A:

I DON'T KNOW. I REALLY DON'T KNOW. I'M JUST GUESSING. INFREQUENTLY.

# 71 Q:

OKAY. WOULD YOU CONSIDER HIM ONE OF YOUR CLOSEST FRIENDS?

# 72 A:

A CLOSE FRIEND, YES.

# 73 Q:

OKAY. AND YOU SEE HIM HOW MANY TIMES -- WELL, SINCE YOU STOPPED DATING HIM IN JULY, WHAT WAS THE NATURE OF YOUR CONTACT? TELEPHONE OR IN PERSON?

# 74 A:

SINCE JULY? MOSTLY TELEPHONE.

# 75 Q:

OKAY.

# 76 A:

BUT I HAVE BEEN TOLD NOT TO -- IT IS BETTER THAT I DON'T TALK TO HIM.

# 77 Q:

SO YOU HAVE STAYED AWAY FROM HIM, HAVE YOU?

# 78 A:

YES.

# 79 Q:

OKAY. DO YOU HAVE ANY FINANCIAL INTEREST IN THIS CASE, THE OUTCOME OF THIS PARTICULAR CASE?

# 80 A:

ANY FINANCIAL INTEREST IN THE OUTCOME? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

# 81 Q:

RIGHT. NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS WITH THIS CASE, YOU ARE GOING TO PURSUE YOUR LAWSUIT AS YOU SEE FIT OR YOUR LAWYER SEES FIT?

# 82 A:

YES.

# 83 Q:

TWO SEPARATE THINGS?

# 84 A:

CORRECT.

# 85 MS. CLARK:

OKAY.

# 86 (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 87 MS. CLARK:

MAY I HAVE A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?

# 88

THE COURT: CERTAINLY. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

# 89 Q:

BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. YOU HAVE INDICATED TO MR. COCHRAN THAT MANY OF YOUR TIME ESTIMATES ARE APPROXIMATE. DO YOU RECALL THAT?

# 90 A:

YES.

# 91 Q:

WAS THERE ONE PARTICULAR TIME THAT NIGHT WHEN YOU ABSOLUTELY DETERMINED WHAT TIME IT WAS DURING YOUR CONVERSATIONS WITH MR. KAELIN?

# 92 A:

YES.

# 93 Q:

AND WHEN WAS THAT?

# 94 A:

10:30.

# 95 Q:

OKAY. AND THAT WAS HOW LONG BEFORE YOU -- HE TOLD YOU ABOUT THE BANG?

# 96 A:

ABOUT TEN MINUTES BEFORE.

# 97 Q:

OKAY. AND YOU ARE CERTAIN OF THAT TIME?

# 98 A:

YES.

# 99 Q:

OKAY. AND WHY IS THAT?

# 100 A:

UMM, JUST BECAUSE OF HOW MUCH LONGER WE TALKED.

# 101 Q:

OKAY. AND WHEN YOU FOUND OUT IT WAS 10:30, YOU SPECIFICALLY -- WERE YOU SPECIFICALLY --

# 102 MR. COCHRAN:

OBJECTION. LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE, YOUR HONOR.

# 103 MS. CLARK:

HOLD IT. I'M NOT DONE. I'M GOING TO FIX IT.

# 104 MR. COCHRAN:

IT WAS AIMED IN THAT DIRECTION.

# 105 THE COURT:

IT WAS.

# 106 MR. COCHRAN:

SHE WAS EVEN LEANING LEADING.

KEY QUOTE

# 107 MS. CLARK:

I'M TRYING. I'M TRYING.

# 108 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT.

# 109 Q:

BY MS. CLARK: WHEN YOU JUST INDICATED TO US YOU WERE CERTAIN OF THE TIME OF 10:30, DID YOU PAY SOME SPECIFIC ATTENTION AT THAT POINT TO WHAT TIME IT WAS?

# 110 A:

WELL, I WAS AWARE OF IT.

# 111 Q:

OKAY. YOU DIRECTED -- DID YOU DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO WHAT TIME IT WAS AT THAT POINT?

# 112 A:

AT 10:30?

# 113 Q:

YES.

# 114 A:

YES.

# 115 Q:

AND WHAT DID YOU DO TO DETERMINE WHAT TIME IT WAS?

# 116 A:

I ASKED KATO WHAT TIME IT WAS.

KEY QUOTE

# 117 Q:

OKAY. SO OTHER THAN THAT TIME OF 10:30 AND THE TEN MINUTES AFTER THAT THAT YOU HAVE JUST INDICATED TO US, ARE YOU CERTAIN OF ANY OF THE OTHER TIMES YOU HAVE MENTIONED OR ARE THOSE APPROXIMATE?

# 118 A:

WELL, I'M CERTAIN OF THE -- OF THE 11:05.

# 119 Q:

OKAY.

# 120 A:

I MEAN, I KNOW IT WAS AFTER -- UMM, YEAH, I WOULD SAY I'M CERTAIN.

# 121 Q:

WHAT ARE YOU CERTAIN OF?

# 122 A:

OF THE TIMES.

# 123 Q:

YES. YOU INDICATED TO MR. COCHRAN THAT YOU WERE -- SOME TIMES WERE APPROXIMATE. OKAY?

# 124 A:

WELL, I WOULD SAY APPROXIMATE WITHIN A MINUTE. I MEAN, I'M NOT, YOU KNOW, DEAD ON ON THE TIMES, BUT I'M SAYING APPROXIMATE WITHIN A MINUTE OR TWO.

KEY QUOTE

# 125 Q:

OKAY. SO WHEN YOU SAY 11:05 --

# 126 A:

WELL, I KNOW THAT BECAUSE HE SAID TEN MINUTES AND THEN, YOU KNOW, I WAS WAITING TEN MINUTES FOR HIM TO CALL BACK WHETHER I SHOULD ACTUALLY GET CONCERNED OR NOT.

# 127 Q:

OKAY. AND IT WAS MORE THAN TEN MINUTES, THOUGH, WASN'T IT?

# 128 A:

IT WAS MORE THAN TEN MINUTES.

# 129 Q:

PARDON?

# 130 A:

IT WAS MORE THAN TEN MINUTES.

# 131 Q:

IT WAS HOW LONG?

# 132 A:

ABOUT FIFTEEN.

# 133 Q:

OKAY. SO AFTER THE POINT OF 11:05 ARE YOU CERTAIN OF THE TIMES THEN? FOR EXAMPLE, HOW LONG YOU WERE TALKING TO HIM BEFORE HE LEFT THE PHONE AGAIN, OR IS THAT APPROXIMATION?

# 134 A:

WELL, IT IS APPROXIMATION.

# 135 Q:

OKAY. YOU INDICATED THAT -- YOU INDICATED THAT YOU WERE PLANNING TO GET TOGETHER THAT NIGHT, BUT YOU DIDN'T?

# 136 A:

RIGHT.

# 137 Q:

WHY NOT?

# 138 A:

BECAUSE -- WELL, BECAUSE THE NOISE HAPPENED OR THE BANG HAPPENED.

# 139 Q:

AND WAS THAT YOUR DECISION OR HIS?

# 140 A:

WELL, IF -- IT WAS -- UMM, BOTH OF OURS BECAUSE THAT MEANS THAT I WOULD HAVE TO GO OVER THERE AND THEN WE WOULD GO OUT AND IT WAS MOSTLY -- I WOULD SAY IT WAS MOSTLY HIS BECAUSE HE DIDN'T WANT TO LEAVE.

# 141 Q:

BECAUSE?

# 142 A:

BECAUSE HE THOUGHT HE SHOULD --

# 143 MR. COCHRAN:

OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR, SPECULATION.

# 144 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED.

# 145 MR. COCHRAN:

BEYOND THE SCOPE.

# 146 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED.

# 147

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) MS. CLARK: NOTHING FURTHER.

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Ferrara

BECAUSE THEY SAID I LIED.

Explains the basis for her civil suit against Time Magazine — the magazine allegedly misrepresented her preliminary hearing testimony about Kato Kaelin going outside and seeing no one.

Ferrara

I ASKED KATO WHAT TIME IT WAS.

Establishes the specific basis for her certainty about the 10:30 PM time — she directly verified it with Kaelin himself, anchoring the timeline.

Ferrara

APPROXIMATE WITHIN A MINUTE. I MEAN, I'M NOT, YOU KNOW, DEAD ON ON THE TIMES, BUT I'M SAYING APPROXIMATE WITHIN A MINUTE OR TWO.

Rehabilitates her timeline credibility after Cochran's cross — her 'approximations' were tight, not vague.

Johnnie Cochran

SHE WAS EVEN LEANING LEADING.

Rare light moment — Cochran teases Clark for physically leaning into a leading question, and even Judge Ito agrees.

Notable Exchanges (2)

Marcia Clark•Johnnie Cochran•Lance A. Ito

Clark starts to ask a leading question about the 10:30 PM time; Cochran objects before she finishes; Clark says 'I'm going to fix it'; Cochran jokes she was 'even leaning leading'; Ito agrees with a dry 'It was.'

light

Paul Sigelman•Lance A. Ito•Marcia Clark

Ferrara's personal attorney interrupts from the gallery to assert attorney-client privilege when Clark asks about the fee arrangement. Ito asks him to leave a card with the clerk; Clark voluntarily drops the fee line of questioning.

procedural

Light Moments (1)

Johnnie Cochran

Cochran objects mid-question that Clark was 'leaning leading' — physically leaning toward the witness while asking a leading question. Ito dryly agrees: 'It was.' Clark responds: 'I'm trying. I'm trying.'

Credibility Attacks (1)

⚔ Ferrara

potential bias / financial interest

Defense had raised the existence of Ferrara's personal attorney on cross; Clark on redirect clarifies she is suing Time Magazine (not connected to this case) and has no financial interest in the outcome of the criminal trial.

Witness Demeanor

(BRIEF PAUSE) before Clark's final series of questions

Witness is slightly confused when asked to recall a question she had forgotten: 'No' / 'I'm sorry'

Objections

3 objections (2 sustained, 0 overruled)

Proceeding 5463 • 147 utterances • Prosecution witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103