Cross-examination of Rachel Ferrara

📄 Cross-examination of Rachel Ferrara — Tuesday, March 28, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\MAR\28\CROSS-EXAMINATION-OF-RACHEL-FE.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 46 of 167

◀ Direct examination of Rachel Ferrara (part 3) Off-record discussion ▶

Witness: Rachel Ferrara
Examiner: Johnnie Cochran
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Tuesday, March 28, 1995 • Utterances: 181

Johnnie Cochran cross-examines Rachel Ferrara, who was dating Kato Kaelin at the time of the murders. Cochran uses her testimony to establish a precise timeline of phone calls between her and Kaelin on the night of June 12, 1994 — including the moment Kaelin described hearing a 'bang on the wall' — and to bolster Kaelin's credibility as a witness by having her vouch for his honesty and moral character.

# 1 THE COURT:

MR. COCHRAN.

# 2 MR. COCHRAN:

THANK YOU VERY KINDLY, YOUR HONOR.

# 3

CROSS-EXAMINATION

# 4

BY MR. COCHRAN:

# 5 Q:

GOOD MORNING, MISS FERRARA.

# 6 A:

HELLO.

# 7 Q:

I WOULD LIKE TO ASK YOU JUST A FEW QUESTIONS. WHEN YOU CAME INTO COURT TODAY YOU CAME IN WITH A GENTLEMAN WHO IS SEATED BACK THERE. IS THAT YOUR LAWYER?

# 8 A:

YES.

# 9 Q:

SO YOU HAVE A LAWYER ALSO, DO YOU?

# 10 A:

HE IS NOT A CRIMINAL.

KEY QUOTE

# 11 Q:

BUT HE'S A LAWYER WHO CAME HERE WITH YOU?

# 12 A:

YES.

# 13 Q:

HE IS STILL A LAWYER, RIGHT?

# 14 A:

YES.

# 15 Q:

OKAY. AND PRIOR TO YOUR TESTIMONY YOU HAVE HAD OCCASION TO SPEAK WITH MISS CLARK, HAVE YOU NOT?

# 16 A:

YES.

# 17 Q:

MISS MARCIA CLARK. ON HOW MANY OCCASIONS WOULD YOU SAY YOU HAVE SPOKEN TO MISS CLARK PRIOR TO YOUR TESTIMONY HERE TODAY?

# 18 A:

I HAVE SPOKEN TO HER TWO TIMES.

# 19 Q:

AND ON EACH OCCASION WERE YOU BY YOURSELF WHEN YOU TALKED TO HER?

# 20 A:

THE FIRST TIME I WAS, YES.

# 21 Q:

AND THE SECOND TIME WHO WAS WITH YOU?

# 22 A:

MY ATTORNEY.

# 23 Q:

ALL RIGHT. SAME GENTLEMAN IS HERE?

# 24 A:

CORRECT.

# 25 Q:

ALL RIGHT. AND HOW LONG HAD YOU KNOWN KATO KAELIN PRIOR TO JUNE 12, 1994?

# 26 A:

WELL, FOR JUST -- WELL, SINCE MARCH, SO --

# 27 Q:

ALL RIGHT. SO YOU HAVE KNOWN HIM SINCE MARCH OF 1994; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 28 A:

YES.

# 29 Q:

YOU MET HIM IN CONNECTION WITH THIS MOVIE PRODUCTION WE WERE TALKING ABOUT?

# 30 A:

YES.

# 31 Q:

AND DURING THAT PERIOD OF TIME BETWEEN MARCH, 1994, AND JUNE OF 1994, DID A RELATIONSHIP OF SOME KIND DEVELOP BETWEEN YOU AND MR. KAELIN?

# 32 A:

YES.

# 33 Q:

AND WHAT WAS THAT RELATIONSHIP?

# 34 A:

WE WERE FRIENDS AND WE WERE DATING.

# 35 Q:

DATING?

# 36 A:

YES.

# 37 Q:

AND YOU CAME TO KNOW HIM PRETTY WELL AS OF JUNE 12 OF 1994?

# 38 A:

YES.

# 39 Q:

DID YOU FIND HIM TO BE A FAIRLY HONEST AND STRAIGHTFORWARD PERSON IN YOUR DEALINGS WITH HIM?

# 40 A:

DEFINITELY.

# 41 Q:

DID HE TELL YOU THE TRUTH, AS FAR AS YOU KNEW?

# 42 A:

AS FAR AS I KNEW.

# 43 Q:

NOW, YOU BECAME AWARE, AS OF MARCH OF 1994, THAT MR. KAELIN LIVED AT MR. O.J. SIMPSON'S RESIDENCE; IS THAT CORRECT, IN THE GUEST HOUSE?

# 44 A:

I'M SORRY, WHAT WAS --

# 45 Q:

YOU BECAME AWARE, AFTER YOU MET HIM IN MARCH OF 1994, THAT MR. KAELIN LIVED AT MR. O.J. SIMPSON'S RESIDENCE OR IN HIS GUEST HOUSE, RIGHT?

# 46 A:

YES.

# 47 Q:

AND IN FACT BETWEEN THE PERIOD OF MARCH, 1994, AND JUNE 12, 1994, YOU HAD OCCASION TO GO OVER TO THE SIMPSON RESIDENCE; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 48 A:

YES.

# 49 Q:

AND YOU SPENT SOME TIME OVER THERE; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 50 A:

NOT A LOT, BUT YES.

# 51 Q:

DID YOU SPEND SOME EVENINGS THERE?

# 52 A:

UMM, ONE OR TWO EVENINGS.

# 53 Q:

ON HOW MANY OCCASIONS WOULD YOU SAY YOU WENT OVER THERE?

# 54 A:

I WENT OVER THERE IN THE DAYTIME A FEW TIMES, SO I WOULD SAY FIVE OR SIX.

# 55 Q:

ALL RIGHT. DURING THAT TIME FRAME?

# 56 A:

YES.

# 57 Q:

ALL RIGHT. SOMETIME IN THE DAY AND SOMETIME IN THE EVENING; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 58 A:

CORRECT.

# 59 Q:

AND DID YOU EVER SEE MR. O.J. SIMPSON DURING ANY OF THESE TIMES THAT YOU WENT OVER THERE?

# 60 A:

NEVER.

# 61 Q:

SO THE FIVE OR SIX TIMES YOU WENT OVER THERE BETWEEN MARCH OF 1994 AND JUNE 12 OF 1994 YOU NEVER SAW MR. O.J. SIMPSON, RIGHT?

# 62 A:

NEVER.

# 63 Q:

ALL RIGHT. ON THIS PARTICULAR EVENING THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, JUNE 12, 1994, YOU RECALL THAT YOU RECEIVED A PHONE CALL FROM MR. KAELIN THAT EVENING; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 64 A:

YES.

# 65 Q:

AND TO THE BEST OF YOUR RECOLLECTION THAT PHONE CALL WAS SOMEWHERE APPROXIMATELY 10:30 P.M., THE FIRST PHONE CALL; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 66 A:

APPROXIMATELY 10:30.

# 67 Q:

YOU WERE TALKING TO HIM BY 10:30 THAT EVENING?

# 68 A:

WE WERE TALKING DURING 10:30, BUT IT WAS BEFORE 10:30.

# 69 Q:

THE FIRST TIME WAS AT ABOUT WHAT TIME? 10:20?

# 70 A:

YES.

# 71 Q:

AND AT 10:30 YOU WERE STILL TALKING; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 72 A:

YES.

# 73 Q:

ALL RIGHT. AND YOU HAD SOME PLANS OF POSSIBLY GETTING TOGETHER THAT EVENING; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 74 A:

YES.

# 75 Q:

AS IT TURNED OUT YOU DIDN'T GET TOGETHER THAT EVENING, DID YOU?

# 76 A:

NO.

# 77 Q:

AND AS I UNDERSTAND YOUR TESTIMONY, THAT EVENING YOU HAD PERHAPS THREE CONVERSATIONS ALTOGETHER; IS THAT CORRECT, THREE TELEPHONE CONVERSATIONS?

# 78 A:

YES, I GUESS YOU PUT IT LIKE THAT.

# 79 Q:

IT WAS DURING THE FIRST CONVERSATION THAT WHILE TALKING TO MR. KAELIN HE DESCRIBED FOR YOU A BANG ON THE WALL OF HIS RESIDENCE, OR SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 80 A:

YES.

# 81 Q:

YOU RECALL HE USED THE TERM "BANG ON THE WALL"; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 82 A:

YES.

# 83 Q:

AT FIRST, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, HE THOUGHT IT WAS AN EARTHQUAKE AND BECAUSE YOU WERE WATCHING TELEVISION YOU WERE AWARE AT LEAST THERE WAS NO INDICATION OF AN EARTHQUAKE AT THAT TIME; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 84 A:

YES.

# 85 Q:

ALL RIGHT.

# 86 A:

WELL, THAT IS NOT THE ONLY INDICATION, BUT I DIDN'T FEEL ANYTHING.

# 87 Q:

ALL RIGHT. SO YOU DIDN'T FEEL ANYTHING?

# 88 A:

RIGHT.

# 89 Q:

YOU DIDN'T SEE ANY MENTION OF IT EITHER; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 90 A:

RIGHT.

# 91 Q:

YOU WERE APPROXIMATELY TEN MILES FROM WHERE HE WAS AT THAT POINT; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 92 A:

THAT IS AN APPROXIMATE. I'M NOT SURE.

# 93 Q:

YOU WERE IN PALMS SOMEWHERE; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 94 A:

YES.

# 95 Q:

ALL RIGHT. NOW, AFTER HE TOLD YOU ABOUT THIS BANG ON THE WALL THERE CAME A TIME WHEN THAT CONVERSATION, THAT FIRST CONVERSATION TERMINATED; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 96 A:

YES.

# 97 Q:

CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT WHAT TIME THAT FIRST CONVERSATION TERMINATED?

# 98 A:

AROUND 10:50.

# 99 Q:

ALL RIGHT. AND AT THAT POINT YOU EXPECTED THAT MR. KAELIN WOULD CALL BACK AGAIN; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 100 A:

YES.

# 101 Q:

AND SO THAT WE ARE CLEAR, IF YOU CAN HELP US WITH THIS, WHAT TIME DID HE CALL BACK AFTER THE FIRST CONVERSATION? WHAT WAS THE TIME OF THE SECOND CONVERSATION?

# 102 A:

APPROXIMATELY 11:05.

# 103 Q:

ALL RIGHT. SO PERHAPS FIFTEEN MINUTES LATER HE CALLED BACK; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 104 A:

RIGHT.

# 105 Q:

DO YOU KNOW OR WERE YOU ABLE TO ASCERTAIN WHETHER OR NOT MR. KAELIN HAD SEEN MR. SIMPSON BETWEEN THE TWO PHONE CALLS, BETWEEN 10:50 AND 11:05? WERE YOU ABLE TO ASCERTAIN THAT?

# 106 A:

YES.

# 107 Q:

THAT WAS BASED UPON SOMETHING THAT HE TOLD YOU?

# 108 A:

CORRECT.

# 109 Q:

DID YOU DISCUSS WITH MR. KAELIN THAT NIGHT THAT MR. SIMPSON WAS GOING TO CHICAGO ON AN AIRPLANE AT ALL?

# 110 A:

DISCUSSED?

# 111 Q:

YEAH. DID YOU GUYS TALK ABOUT THAT?

# 112 A:

IT WASN'T LIKE A WHOLE TOPIC, DISCUSSED, BUT IT WAS MENTIONED.

# 113 Q:

I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT A TOPIC, BUT DID YOU HAVE OCCASION TO MENTION THAT IN THE COURSE OF YOUR CONVERSATION?

# 114 A:

YES, YES.

# 115 Q:

ALL RIGHT. WAS THAT IN THE FIRST CONVERSATION OR IN THE SECOND ONE?

# 116 A:

THAT WAS -- THAT WAS IN THE SECOND.

# 117 Q:

SECOND CONVERSATION?

# 118 A:

YES.

# 119 Q:

AFTER HE CAME BACK; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 120 A:

CORRECT.

# 121 Q:

AND IN THE SECOND CONVERSATION, HOW LONG DID THAT CONVERSATION LAST?

# 122 A:

SECOND CONVERSATION? LASTED, OH, APPROXIMATELY TEN MINUTES.

# 123 Q:

SO ABOUT 11:15 OR THEREABOUTS?

# 124 A:

YES.

# 125 Q:

AND THEN AFTER THAT THERE WAS A PERIOD OF TIME AND THEN YOU HAD A THIRD CONVERSATION; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 126 A:

YES.

# 127 Q:

OKAY. SO IF THE SECOND CONVERSATION ENDED AT ABOUT 11:15 --

# 128 A:

UH-HUH.

# 129 Q:

-- CAN YOU HELP US WITH WHEN THE THIRD CONVERSATION BEGAN, WHEN HE CALLED YOU BACK?

# 130 A:

WHEN IT BEGAN?

# 131 Q:

YES. WHAT TIME DID YOU START?

# 132 A:

WELL, PROBABLY -- HE WASN'T OUTSIDE FOR VERY LONG, SO I WOULD SAY TEN MINUTES LATER, SO 11:20 --

# 133 Q:

SO YOUR BEST RECOLLECTION IS THAT THE THIRD CONVERSATION WOULD HAVE STARTED ABOUT 11:25 OR THEREABOUTS?

# 134 A:

YES.

# 135 Q:

OKAY. I UNDERSTAND THESE ARE JUST ESTIMATES; IS THAT CORRECT, YOUR BEST ESTIMATES?

# 136 A:

BEST ESTIMATES, YES.

# 137 Q:

AND THIS THIRD CONVERSATION WAS THE ONE YOU SHARED WITH US THAT MAY HAVE LASTED UP TO AN HOUR AND A HALF; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 138 A:

YES.

# 139 Q:

IN THE SECOND CONVERSATION DID MR. KAELIN SAY TO YOU THAT HE HAD SEEN A LIMOUSINE OUTSIDE IN THE DRIVEWAY?

# 140 A:

YES.

# 141 Q:

DID YOU HAVE OCCASION TO SEE ANY OF MR. KAELIN'S TESTIMONY DURING THE COURSE OF THE LAST SEVERAL DAYS OR SO?

# 142 A:

NO. I HEARD SOME OF THE HIGHLIGHTS.

# 143 Q:

I COULDN'T HEAR YOU.

# 144 A:

I HAVE HEARD SOME OF THE HIGHLIGHTS.

# 145 Q:

WHERE DID YOU HEAR THE HIGHLIGHTS?

# 146 A:

FROM FRIENDS.

# 147 Q:

PEOPLE WHO TOLD YOU THAT THEY HAD SEEN HIM?

# 148 (NODS HEAD UP AND DOWN.)

# 149 MS. CLARK:

WAS THAT YES?

# 150 RACHEL FERRARA:

YES.

# 151 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: WAS THAT YES?

# 152 A:

YES.

# 153 Q:

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT KATO KAELIN IS A HONEST AND CREDIBLE PERSON?

# 154 MS. CLARK:

ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR.

# 155 MR. COCHRAN:

FOUNDATIONAL. I'M LEADING TO SOMETHING ELSE. THANK YOU.

# 156 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: COULD YOU HEAR THAT QUESTION?

# 157 A:

DO I BELIEVE THAT HE IS AN HONEST AND CREDIBLE PERSON?

# 158 Q:

AN HONEST AND CREDIBLE PERSON?

# 159 A:

YES.

# 160 Q:

AND WHY DO YOU SAY THAT?

# 161 A:

BECAUSE HE -- JUST BECAUSE -- BECAUSE I KNOW HIM.

# 162 Q:

AND YOU STILL CONSIDER YOURSELF A FRIEND NOW?

# 163 A:

HE IS VERY MORAL.

# 164 Q:

THIS IS BASED UPON THE TIME YOU HAVE KNOWN HIM SINCE MARCH OF 1994; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 165 A:

YES.

# 166 Q:

NOW, YOU HAVEN'T SOLD YOUR STORY TO ANY PUBLICATIONS, HAVE YOU?

# 167 A:

NO.

# 168 Q:

HAVE YOU HAD ANY OFFERS?

# 169 A:

YES.

# 170 Q:

AND WHAT KIND OF PUBLICATIONS HAVE MADE OFFERS TO YOU?

# 171 A:

UMM, CURRENT AFFAIR, HARD COPY, AND I HAVEN'T LIKE PURSUED IT, SO IT WAS -- I HAVE BEEN APPROACHED, BUT I HAVEN'T -- YOU KNOW, GLOBE AND --

# 172 Q:

SOME OF THE TABLOID --

# 173 A:

RIGHT.

# 174 Q:

-- MAGAZINES ALSO? AND YOU HAVE NOT BEEN PAID AT ALL AT THIS POINT; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 175 A:

NO.

# 176 Q:

YOU HAVE NOT APPEARED ON ANY OF THOSE SHOWS YET?

# 177 A:

NO.

# 178 MR. COCHRAN:

THANK YOU VERY KINDLY. NOTHING FURTHER, YOUR HONOR.

# 179 THE COURT:

MISS CLARK.

# 180 MS. CLARK:

MAY I HAVE ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?

# 181 THE COURT:

CERTAINLY.

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Rachel Ferrara

HE IS NOT A CRIMINAL.

Her response when asked if the man who accompanied her was her lawyer — a candid, slightly comic moment that lightened the opening of cross-examination.

Rachel Ferrara

HE IS VERY MORAL.

Her character endorsement of Kato Kaelin, offered unprompted when asked why she considers him honest — the strongest possible vouching for his credibility.

Rachel Ferrara

YES, DEFINITELY.

Direct affirmation that she found Kaelin to be 'fairly honest and straightforward' — Cochran's explicit effort to rehabilitate Kaelin's credibility after his prosecution examination.

Rachel Ferrara

AROUND 10:50.

Pins down the end of the first call, placing Kaelin's report of the 'bang on the wall' before 10:50 PM — a key data point for the defense timeline.

Evidence (2)

Informal

The 'bang on the wall' Kaelin described to Ferrara during their first phone call on the night of June 12, 1994

discussed — Ferrara corroborates Kaelin's account of hearing the noise and initially thinking it was an earthquake

Informal

Limousine seen by Kaelin in the driveway, reported to Ferrara during the second phone call

discussed — Ferrara confirms Kaelin mentioned seeing a limo

Notable Exchanges (2)

Johnnie Cochran•Rachel Ferrara

Cochran methodically walks Ferrara through three phone calls with Kaelin on the night of the murders, establishing times: first call ~10:20-10:50 PM (Kaelin hears the bang), second call ~11:05-11:15 PM (Kaelin mentions the limo and Simpson's Chicago trip), third call ~11:25 PM lasting roughly 90 minutes.

strategic

Johnnie Cochran•Rachel Ferrara

Cochran asks whether Ferrara has sold her story or received tabloid offers. She confirms she was approached by A Current Affair, Hard Copy, and Globe but has not sold anything or appeared on any show.

strategic

Light Moments (1)

Rachel Ferrara

When asked if the gentleman who accompanied her was her lawyer, Ferrara replied 'He is not a criminal' — drawing an implicit distinction between being a lawyer and being a criminal defendant.

Credibility Attacks (1)

⚔ Rachel Ferrara

preemptive inoculation

Cochran asks Ferrara whether she has sold her story to tabloids or been paid — she has not — establishing her as a disinterested witness with no financial motive to testify.

Witness Demeanor

(NODS HEAD UP AND DOWN.) — when asked if she heard highlights of Kaelin's testimony from friends

Objections

1 objections (0 sustained, 0 overruled)

Proceeding 5459 • 181 utterances • Prosecution witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103