Direct examination of Brian Kaelin

📄 Direct examination of Brian Kaelin — Tuesday, March 21, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\MAR\21\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-BRIAN-KA.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 42 of 167

◀ Exhibit review and witness preparation Jury instructions ▶

Witness: Brian "Kato" Kaelin
Examiner: Marcia Clark
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Tuesday, March 21, 1995 • Utterances: 514

Marcia Clark conducts the opening direct examination of Brian 'Kato' Kaelin, establishing his background friendship with Nicole Brown Simpson, his living arrangements at Gretna Green and then Rockingham, and OJ Simpson's role in steering him away from moving into Nicole's Bundy condominium. The examination concludes with Kaelin recounting his afternoon conversation with Simpson on June 12, 1994 — including talk of the dance recital, golf, and Paula Barbieri's upset at being excluded — before breaking on a disputed hearsay objection.

# 1 MS. CLARK:

YES, YOUR HONOR. PEOPLE CALL MR. KAELIN.

BRIAN KATO KAELIN, CALLED AS A WITNESS BY THE PEOPLE, WAS SWORN AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:

# 2 THE CLERK:

RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND, PLEASE. YOU DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU MAY GIVE IN THE CAUSE NOW PENDING BEFORE THIS COURT, SHALL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD?

# 3 BRIAN "KATO" KAELIN:

I DO.

# 4 THE CLERK:

PLEASE HAVE A SEAT ON THE WITNESS STAND AND STATE AND SPELL YOUR FIRST AND LAST NAMES FOR THE RECORD.

# 5 THE COURT:

MR. KAELIN, WHY DON'T YOU PULL THE MICROPHONE CLOSE TO YOU THERE. THANK YOU. MISS CLARK.

# 6 MS. CLARK:

THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

# 7 THE COURT:

I'M SORRY. FORGOT TO ASK HIM TO STATE AND SPELL HIS NAME.

# 8 BRIAN "KATO" KAELIN:

BRIAN KATO KAELIN, B-R-I-A-N K-A-T-O K-A-E-L-I-N.

# 9 THE COURT:

MISS CLARK.

# 10

DIRECT EXAMINATION

# 11

BY MS. CLARK:

# 12 Q:

MR. KAELIN, IS KATO YOUR MIDDLE NAME?

# 13 A:

NICKNAME.

# 14 Q:

IS THAT WHAT PEOPLE CALL YOU INSTEAD OF BRIAN?

# 15 A:

YES.

# 16 Q:

YOU A LITTLE BIT NERVOUS TODAY?

# 17 A:

FEEL GREAT. LITTLE NERVOUS.

KEY QUOTE

# 18 Q:

ALL RIGHT. MR. KAELIN, DID YOU KNOW SOMEONE BY THE NAME OF NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON BACK IN 1992?

# 19 A:

YES.

# 20 Q:

CAN YOU TELL US, PLEASE, HOW YOU MET HER?

# 21 A:

IN ASPEN, COLORADO.

# 22 Q:

AND WHAT WAS THE EVENT?

# 23 A:

IT WAS LIKE A CHRISTMAS BREAK AND I WENT WITH A BUDDY, AND WE MET.

# 24 Q:

AND WHAT MONTH WAS THAT, IF YOU RECALL?

# 25 A:

DECEMBER.

# 26 Q:

WHO WAS THE BUDDY YOU WERE WITH WHEN YOU MET NICOLE BROWN?

# 27 A:

GRANT CRAMER.

# 28 Q:

DID YOU GET INVOLVED IN SOME KIND OF ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIP WITH HER?

# 29 A:

DID I?

# 30 Q:

DID YOU?

# 31 A:

NO.

# 32 Q:

DID YOU BECOME FRIENDS?

# 33 A:

YES.

# 34 Q:

DID YOU HAVE OCCASION TO SEE HER AGAIN AFTER YOU MET HER IN DECEMBER OF 1992 IN ASPEN?

# 35 A:

YES. I SAW HER AGAIN IN ASPEN.

# 36 Q:

IN ASPEN?

# 37 A:

OH, THROUGHOUT THE TRIP, YES, AND THEN AFTER THAT ALSO.

# 38 Q:

WELL, HOW LONG WAS THAT TRIP IN ASPEN IN DECEMBER OF '92?

# 39 A:

I THINK SEVEN DAYS ABOUT. IT'S -- LIKE A WEEK.

# 40 Q:

AND DID YOU ALL SPEND THAT WHOLE WEEK TOGETHER?

# 41 A:

OFF AND ON, YES.

# 42 Q:

AND THAT -- WHEN I SAY "YOU ALL," WHO WAS ALL -- ALL OF YOU TOGETHER?

# 43 A:

I -- QUITE A FEW PEOPLE. BUT BASICALLY IT WAS MYSELF, GRANT CRAMER, FAYE RESNICK WAS THERE AND NICOLE AND OTHER PEOPLE THAT I -- THE NAMES I CAN'T THINK OF THEM RIGHT NOW. BUT OTHER PEOPLE.

# 44 Q:

NOW, AT THAT TIME, SIR, WAS NICOLE BROWN ALREADY DIVORCED?

# 45 MR. SHAPIRO:

OBJECTION. CALLS FOR HEARSAY.

# 46 THE COURT:

OVERRULED. YOU CAN ANSWER.

# 47 Q:

BY MS. CLARK: YOU CAN ANSWER.

# 48 A:

OH, I BELIEVE SO, YES.

# 49 Q:

AFTER SEEING HER AND MEETING HER IN ASPEN IN DECEMBER OF 1992, AFTER THAT TRIP, WHEN WAS THE NEXT TIME YOU SAW NICOLE BROWN?

# 50 A:

I SAW HER PRETTY MUCH IN JANUARY AT HER HOUSE THAT WAS ON GRETNA GREEN.

# 51 Q:

JANUARY OF '93 IS THAT?

# 52 A:

YES.

# 53 Q:

AND IS THAT IN BRENTWOOD, THAT HOUSE ON GRETNA GREEN?

# 54 A:

YES.

# 55 Q:

AND WHAT -- WELL, WHAT WOULD CAUSE YOU TO GO TO HER HOUSE IN BRENTWOOD?

# 56 A:

UMM, THERE WAS A PARTY AND I WAS INVITED TO GO.

# 57 Q:

WHEN YOU SAW HER AT -- YOU SAW HER AT THAT PARTY I TAKE IT?

# 58 A:

YES.

# 59 Q:

AND CAN YOU DESCRIBE FOR US THE LAYOUT OF THAT HOUSE ON GRETNA GREEN?

# 60 A:

OKAY. UMM, WANT ME TO START FROM THE DRIVEWAY?

# 61 Q:

ACTUALLY -- WELL, WE DON'T HAVE TO BE THAT SPECIFIC. WAS THERE A MAIN HOUSE?

# 62 A:

OKAY. YOU WALK INTO A KIND OF FOYER, THEN WOULD BE LIKE A DEN AND LIVING ROOM TO THE RIGHT, KITCHEN AND, YOU KNOW, OTHER ROOMS AND UPSTAIRS.

# 63 Q:

ALL RIGHT. AND YOU HAVE A -- SO YOU HAVE A FRONT DOOR TO THAT HOUSE, DO YOU?

# 64 A:

YES.

# 65 Q:

DOES IT FACE THE STREET?

# 66 A:

YES.

# 67 Q:

IS THERE A PICTURE WINDOW THAT FACES THE STREET ON THAT HOUSE?

# 68 A:

YES.

# 69 Q:

AND THAT PICTURE WINDOW LOOKS INTO WHAT ROOM?

# 70 A:

THE LIVING ROOM.

# 71 Q:

IS THERE A REAR ENTRY INTO THE HOUSE?

# 72 A:

AT THE SIDE AND A REAR, TWO REAR THAT WOULD GO TO THE KITCHEN AND ONE GOES TO A DEN AND ONE GOES TO A BEDROOM IN THE BACK.

# 73 Q:

IN THE BACK?

# 74 A:

RIGHT.

# 75 Q:

SO ARE THERE THREE ENTRANCES IN -- BESIDES THE FRONT DOOR, ARE THERE THREE OTHER ENTRANCES TO THE HOUSE?

# 76 A:

FOUR.

# 77 Q:

FOUR.

# 78 A:

THERE'S A SIDE DOOR IN THE FRONT THAT GOES TO THE KITCHEN.

# 79 Q:

OKAY.

# 80 A:

YOU WALK TO THE BACK, THEN YOU HAVE THE BACK DOORS TO THE KITCHEN, THEN YOU HAVE THE BACK DOUBLE DOORS TO THE DEN AND THEN THERE'S ANOTHER BEDROOM THAT HAS DOUBLE DOORS ALSO.

# 81 Q:

OKAY. WHAT KIND OF DOORS ARE THOSE?

# 82 A:

LIKE FRENCH DOORS. THEY'RE DOUBLE DOORS.

# 83 Q:

ALL OF THE ONES IN THE BACK THERE ARE --

# 84 A:

NO. OH, YES.

# 85 Q:

ARE THEY?

# 86 A:

EXCEPT THE ONE IN THE FRONT KITCHEN. IT'S A SINGLE DOOR.

# 87 Q:

WELL, YOU MEAN THE SIDE DOOR TO THE KITCHEN, THAT'S A SINGLE DOOR?

# 88 A:

SIDE DOOR.

# 89 Q:

IS THAT YES?

# 90 A:

YES. THAT'S YES.

# 91 Q:

OKAY. AND THEN DO YOU HAVE -- THE DOUBLE DOORS THAT YOU REFERRED TO IN THE BACK THAT LEAD INTO THE KITCHEN, THE DEN AND A BEDROOM, ARE THOSE ALL FRENCH DOORS?

# 92 A:

YES.

# 93 Q:

OKAY. NOW, IS THERE ANY YARD AREA, THE PROPERTY THAT BELONGS TO THE HOUSE THAT'S LOCATED BEHIND THE HOUSE?

# 94 A:

A POOL, SMALL YARD AND THEN THERE'S A GUEST HOUSE.

# 95 Q:

NOW, WHEN YOU WENT TO THE PROPERTY -- WHEN YOU WENT TO THAT GRETNA GREEN HOUSE, TO THE PARTY GIVEN BY NICOLE BROWN, DID YOU NOTICE THAT GUEST HOUSE IN THE REAR OF THE PROPERTY?

# 96 A:

YES, I DID.

# 97 Q:

CAN YOU TELL US WHETHER YOU HAD A DISCUSSION WITH HER ABOUT THAT GUEST HOUSE IN THE REAR?

# 98 A:

I DID. I --

# 99 Q:

WHAT WAS THE NATURE OF IT, OF YOUR DISCUSSION?

# 100 A:

I SAID, "NICOLE, WHO LIVES BACK THERE," AND SHE SAID, "NO ONE." AND THEN I SAID, "COULD I," AND SHE SAYS, "WELL, IF YOU DO, YOU HAVE TO CLEAN IT OUT." AND I SAID, "GREAT."

# 101 Q:

WAS IT NOT CLEAN AT THAT TIME?

# 102 A:

THERE WAS FURNITURE IN THERE, TREADMILL AND A FEW OTHER THINGS, AND THAT WAS IT.

# 103 Q:

SO DID YOU MAKE SOME AGREEMENT WITH HER CONCERNING PAYING RENT AND LIVING THERE?

# 104 A:

YES.

# 105 Q:

AND WHAT WAS YOUR AGREEMENT?

# 106 A:

IT WOULD BE 450 TO 500 FOR RENT AND THEN TAKE CARE OF THE KIDS, NICOLE WOULD TAKE THINGS OFF AND THAT WAS IT.

# 107 Q:

WHEN YOU SAY "TAKE THINGS OFF," IF YOU TOOK CARE OF THE CHILDREN, WOULD YOUR RENT BE REDUCED?

# 108 A:

YES.

# 109 Q:

AND YOUR AGREEMENT WAS TO PAY HER HOW MUCH PER MONTH?

# 110 A:

IT WAS BETWEEN 450 TO 500.

# 111 Q:

DEPENDING ON HOW MUCH YOU TOOK CARE OF THE CHILDREN?

# 112 A:

YES.

# 113 Q:

AND BY THE CHILDREN, WHO ARE WE REFERRING TO?

# 114 A:

SIDNEY AND JUSTIN.

# 115 Q:

AND WHO LIVED IN THE MAIN HOUSE ON GRETNA GREEN?

# 116 A:

NICOLE AND SIDNEY AND JUSTIN.

# 117 Q:

THAT'S IT?

# 118 A:

YES.

# 119 Q:

SO WHEN DID YOU MOVE INTO THE GRETNA GREEN HOUSE?

# 120 A:

IT WAS JANUARY -- KIND OF IN THE MIDDLE OF JANUARY I THINK PRETTY -- RIGHT AROUND THERE.

# 121 Q:

OF 1993?

# 122 A:

OF '93.

# 123 Q:

OKAY. NOW, DURING THAT TIME, DID YOU HAVE OCCASION TO MEET MR. SIMPSON?

# 124 A:

NOT IN JANUARY. I THINK IT WAS IN FEBRUARY. I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT DATE.

# 125 Q:

SOMETIME IN FEBRUARY OF 1993?

# 126 A:

YES.

# 127 Q:

AND WHEN I SAY MR. SIMPSON, IS THAT SOMEONE YOU SEE IN COURT TODAY, SIR?

# 128 A:

IT'S O.J.

# 129 Q:

POINT HIM OUT, PLEASE.

# 130 A:

THERE (INDICATING).

# 131 THE COURT:

INDICATING THE DEFENDANT.

# 132 MS. CLARK:

THANK YOU.

# 133 Q:

BY MS. CLARK: AND HOW WAS IT THAT YOU MET HIM? WHAT WAS THE OCCASION?

# 134 A:

OH, HE CAME BY.

# 135 Q:

TO THE HOUSE ON GRETNA GREEN?

# 136 A:

TO THE HOUSE ON GRETNA GREEN.

# 137 Q:

HOW LONG DID YOU LIVE AT THAT HOUSE ON GRETNA GREEN?

# 138 A:

UNTIL JANUARY OF '94, THE BEGINNING OF JANUARY. RIGHT THEN I LEFT.

# 139 Q:

CAN YOU TELL US EXACTLY WHAT IT WAS THAT HAPPENED TO CAUSE YOU TO MOVE OUT IN JANUARY OF 1994?

# 140 A:

OKAY. WHAT HAPPENED WAS, I WAS GOING TO MOVE TO BUNDY WITH NICOLE AND --

# 141 Q:

OKAY. LET ME ASK YOU ANOTHER QUESTION, SIR. I AM SORRY.

# 142 A:

OKAY.

# 143 Q:

DID -- DID NICOLE BROWN DECIDE TO MOVE OUT OF GRETNA GREEN IN 1994?

# 144 A:

YES.

# 145 Q:

AND DID SHE FIND ANOTHER LOCATION TO LIVE IN?

# 146 A:

YES.

# 147 Q:

AND WHERE WAS THAT?

# 148 A:

ON BUNDY.

# 149 Q:

DO YOU RECALL THE ADDRESS?

# 150 A:

I THINK 875.

# 151 Q:

DID YOU SEE THE LOCATION?

# 152 A:

YES.

# 153 MS. CLARK:

MAY I HAVE A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?

# 154

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) Q: BY MS. CLARK: CAN YOU TELL US, SIR, WHETHER THAT WAS A HOUSE, A FREESTANDING HOUSE OR A TOWN HOUSE OR A DUPLEX? DO YOU REMEMBER?

# 155 A:

IT WAS A TOWN HOUSE.

# 156 Q:

AND WAS IT A SINGLE UNIT OR MULTIPLE UNITS?

# 157 A:

MULTIPLE UNITS.

# 158 Q:

HOW MANY?

# 159 A:

I THINK FOUR? I DON'T KNOW THE NUMBER.

# 160 Q:

DID YOU ACTUALLY SEE THE LOCATION?

# 161 A:

YES.

# 162 Q:

AND HOW WAS IT THAT YOU CAME TO SEE THAT LOCATION?

# 163 A:

BECAUSE I WAS GOING TO MOVE THERE.

# 164 Q:

SO YOU WENT TO SEE WHERE YOU'D LIVE?

# 165 A:

YES.

# 166 Q:

NOW, WHERE WOULD YOU HAVE STAYED IN THE BUNDY LOCATION?

# 167 A:

OKAY. THERE'S A ROOM THAT'S -- GOES KIND OF ITS OWN SIDE ENTRANCE. IT GOES DOWN AND THERE'S A ROOM THAT'S OFF TO THE SIDE THAT'S KIND OF -- IT'S IN THE HOUSE, BUT IT'S TO THE SIDE.

# 168 Q:

IS IT ON THE LOWEST LEVEL?

# 169 A:

YES.

# 170 Q:

AND DOES IT HAVE A WINDOW THAT FACES A WALKWAY?

# 171 A:

THERE'S A WALKWAY. SO -- I DON'T REMEMBER A WINDOW, BUT THERE PROBABLY WAS.

# 172 Q:

UH-HUH. IF YOU WERE TO WALK IN THROUGH THE GARAGE AREA, WOULD YOU HAVE TO GO DOWNSTAIRS TO GO TO THE AREA WHERE YOU WERE GOING TO LIVE?

# 173 A:

I DON'T REMEMBER, BUT I KNOW IT HAD ITS OWN ENTRANCE THAT WAS PART OF IT, THAT IT HAD AN ENTRANCE AND I DON'T REMEMBER THE LAYOUT THAT WELL.

# 174 Q:

OKAY. THE AREA THEN THAT YOU WERE GOING TO LIVE ON THE LOWEST LEVEL OF THE HOUSE, DID IT HAVE ITS OWN BATHROOM?

# 175 A:

YES.

# 176 Q:

SO -- AND WHAT ELSE DID IT HAVE THAT WOULD BE PRIVATE JUST FOR YOU?

# 177 A:

CLOSETS, BEDROOM, BATHROOM.

# 178 Q:

THAT WAS IT?

# 179 A:

THAT'S -- YEAH, I THINK THAT'S IT.

# 180 Q:

NOW, WAS THAT LOCATION INSIDE THE HOUSE ITSELF?

# 181 A:

YES.

# 182 Q:

THIS WAS NOT A SEPARATE GUEST UNIT LIKE IT WAS AT GRETNA GREEN?

# 183 A:

EXACTLY.

# 184 Q:

AND WERE YOU PLANNING TO PAY HER RENT THERE?

# 185 A:

YES.

# 186 Q:

I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU A PHOTOGRAPH, SIR, AND ASK YOU IF YOU RECOGNIZE THE BUILDING PREVIOUSLY MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 86.

# 187 MR. SHAPIRO:

YOUR HONOR, THIS IS NOT A FACT IN DISPUTE. WE WOULD STIPULATE. THE JURY'S BEEN THERE.

# 188 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. MISS CLARK, DO WE NEED TO -- IS THERE ANY DISPUTE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 875 SOUTH BUNDY?

# 189 MS. CLARK:

NO. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THE WITNESS KNOWS IT TOO. I HAVE NOT SHOWN --

# 190 Q:

BY MS. CLARK: HAVE I SHOWN YOU ANY PHOTOGRAPHS, SIR?

# 191 A:

NO.

# 192 THE COURT:

PROCEED.

# 193 (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 194 MR. SHAPIRO:

YOUR HONOR, IN THE INTEREST OF TIME, WE WOULD STIPULATE THAT HE KNOWS THE LOCATION AND THAT THIS IS THE LOCATION WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, THE SAME LOCATION.

# 195 THE COURT:

MISS CLARK, ANY DISPUTE ABOUT THIS?

# 196 MS. CLARK:

I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE TALKING --

# 197 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT.

# 198 MS. CLARK:

I HAVEN'T SHOWN THIS WITNESS ANY PHOTOGRAPHS.

# 199 THE COURT:

OKAY. OKAY.

# 200 MR. FAIRTLOUGH:

YOUR HONOR, I BELIEVE WE'RE GOING TO NEED TO CHECK SOME CABLE SYSTEMS.

# 201 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. MISS CLARK, WHY DON'T YOU JUST PHYSICALLY SHOW MR. KAELIN THE PHOTOGRAPH.

# 202 MS. CLARK:

I'LL JUST SHOW HIM THE PHOTOGRAPH.

# 203 Q:

BY MS. CLARK: SHOWING YOU THIS PHOTOGRAPH THAT'S PREVIOUSLY BEEN MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 86.

# 204 A:

YES.

# 205 Q:

OKAY. DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT'S SHOWN THERE?

# 206 A:

THE TOWN HOUSE ON BUNDY.

# 207 Q:

OKAY. IS THAT THE TOWN HOUSE THAT YOU WERE DESCRIBING THAT YOU WERE GOING TO MOVE INTO WITH NICOLE?

# 208 A:

YES.

# 209 Q:

THANK YOU. NOW, DID YOU EVER MOVE INTO THAT TOWN HOUSE, SIR?

# 210 A:

NO.

# 211 Q:

WHY NOT?

# 212 A:

I WAS GOING TO MOVE IN AND I MOVED IN AT O.J.'S.

# 213 Q:

WHY NOT -- WHY DID YOU DO THAT?

# 214 A:

BECAUSE O.J. ASKED ME TO GO TO HIS HOUSE. YOU MEAN -- IT WAS PART OF THE DEAL. I WENT THERE INSTEAD OF MOVED IN WITH NICOLE. THERE'S --

# 215 Q:

WHAT DID THE DEFENDANT SAY TO YOU ABOUT MOVING INTO HIS HOUSE INSTEAD OF NICOLE'S CONDOMINIUM OR TOWN HOUSE?

# 216 A:

I MEAN WE TALKED ABOUT IT AND IT WAS SORT OF LIKE THE RIGHT THING TO DO THAT -- NOT TO BE THE SAME HOUSE, THAT I SHOULD PROBABLY GO THERE, AND O.J. OFFERED ME HIS PLACE. IT WAS FREE AND HE SAID WHEN -- "YOU CAN STAY AS LONG AS YOU WANT AND WHEN IT'S TIME FOR YOU TO GO, HE'D LET ME KNOW."

# 217 Q:

OKAY. NOW -- SO DID HE INDICATE ANYTHING TO YOU WITH RESPECT TO WHAT HE THOUGHT OF THE FACT YOU WOULD BE LIVING IN THE SAME HOUSE WITH NICOLE BROWN?

# 218 A:

WELL, THEY WERE TRYING TO WORK THINGS OUT AND I SAID THAT I UNDERSTOOD. IT WASN'T -- I THOUGHT MAYBE I SHOULDN'T BE A GUY IN THE HOUSE AND I WOULD GO THERE. KIND OF LIKE THAT.

# 219 Q:

DID HE THOUGHT -- DID HE INDICATE TO YOU IN SOME WAY THAT HE THOUGHT IT WAS INAPPROPRIATE FOR YOU TO BE IN THE SAME HOUSE AS HER OR HE DIDN'T LIKE IT?

# 220 A:

WELL, NOT DIDN'T LIKE IT, BUT PROBABLY WOULDN'T BE RIGHT.

# 221 Q:

AND WHY WOULDN'T IT BE RIGHT?

# 222 A:

I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER.

# 223 Q:

WERE YOU LOVERS?

# 224 A:

NO.

# 225 Q:

JUST FRIENDS?

# 226 A:

FRIENDS.

# 227 Q:

DID YOU TELL THE DEFENDANT THAT?

# 228 A:

HE KNEW WE WERE FRIENDS.

# 229 Q:

BUT HE STILL DIDN'T WANT YOU LIVING IN THAT HOUSE?

# 230 A:

I -- I GUESS -- I MEAN, I DIDN'T AND I GUESS NOT.

# 231 Q:

OKAY. AND SO HE OFFERED TO LET YOU STAY AT HIS HOUSE ON ROCKINGHAM IS THAT?

# 232 A:

YES.

# 233 Q:

DO YOU RECALL THE ADDRESS ON ROCKINGHAM WHERE HE LIVED?

# 234 A:

UMM, AT 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM.

# 235 Q:

UH-HUH. AND WHAT WAS YOUR ARRANGEMENT WITH THE DEFENDANT CONCERNING HOW -- WHAT KIND OF RENT YOU WOULD BE PAYING HIM TO STAY AT HIS PLACE ON ROCKINGHAM?

# 236 A:

I OFFERED RENT AND O.J. SAID HE DIDN'T WANT MY MONEY AND THAT WAS IT.

KEY QUOTE

# 237 Q:

SO HE LET YOU STAY THERE FOR FREE?

# 238 A:

YES.

# 239 Q:

AND DID YOU THEN MOVE INTO HIS HOUSE ON ROCKINGHAM?

# 240 A:

I -- I DID. IT WAS KIND OF LIKE THAT SAME DAY. I WAS KIND OF LIKE, OH, WE'RE GOING, AND THEN I WENT THERE.

# 241 Q:

AND SO DID YOU PACK UP AND MOVE ALL OF YOUR THINGS INTO THE -- INTO SOME PLACE, SOME AREA IN ROCKINGHAM?

# 242 A:

WHAT WAS THAT?

# 243 Q:

DID YOU PACK UP AND MOVE ALL OF YOUR THINGS OVER TO ROCKINGHAM?

# 244 A:

YES.

# 245 Q:

WHERE ON ROCKINGHAM DID YOU STAY? WHAT PART OF THE PROPERTY?

# 246 A:

IT'S A -- UH, IT WAS A GUEST HOUSE BY THE POOL.

# 247 Q:

AND WHAT DID YOU HAVE? YOUR AREA WHERE YOU LIVED, WHAT WAS YOURS? WHAT PART OF THAT HOUSE WAS YOURS?

# 248 A:

OH, I HAD THE -- A GUEST HOUSE THAT HAD LIKE AN OFFICE AREA AND A BATHROOM AND THERE'S LIKE A LITTLE -- A STOVE AND ALL THAT I DIDN'T USE, BUT THERE WAS A KITCHEN AREA BY THE TENNIS COURTS.

# 249 Q:

SO YOU ACTUALLY -- AT THE BUNDY LOCATION, YOU WOULD HAVE HAD JUST A BEDROOM AND A BATHROOM; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 250 A:

YES.

# 251 Q:

AND AT THE ROCKINGHAM LOCATION -- AND YOU WERE GOING TO PAY RENT THERE AT THE BUNDY LOCATION; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 252 A:

YES. YES.

# 253 Q:

HOW MUCH WERE YOU GOING TO PAY NICOLE TO STAY AT THE BUNDY LOCATION?

# 254 A:

IT'S THE SAME.

# 255 Q:

450 TO 500?

# 256 (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.)

# 257 Q:

IS THAT YES?

# 258 A:

YES.

# 259 Q:

AND YOU WENT TO STAY WITH THE DEFENDANT AT ROCKINGHAM AND YOU HAD YOUR BEDROOM, THE OFFICE, THE BATHROOM AND ACCESS TO A KITCHEN OUT AT THE POOL HOUSE FOR FREE.

# 260 A:

YES.

# 261 Q:

WHEN DID YOU MOVE IN THERE ON ROCKINGHAM?

# 262 A:

UH, JANUARY.

# 263 Q:

OF '94?

# 264 A:

OF '94.

# 265 Q:

NOW, WERE YOU AN ASPIRING ACTOR BACK THEN, SIR?

# 266 A:

YES.

# 267 Q:

AND YOU STILL ARE?

# 268 A:

YES.

# 269 Q:

DID YOU THINK IT MIGHT BE ADVANTAGEOUS TO YOU TO STAY WITH THE DEFENDANT AND GET TO KNOW HIM FOR YOUR ACTING CAREER?

# 270 A:

I DIDN'T THINK THAT. I NEVER ASKED FOR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. I WAS GETTING RENT FREE, SO I DIDN'T -- I DIDN'T ASK ANYTHING.

# 271 Q:

UH-HUH. DID YOU THINK THAT YOUR FRIENDSHIP WITH HIM, YOUR ACQUAINTANCESHIP, ESPECIALLY LIVING ON HIS PROPERTY MIGHT SEND ACTING ROLES YOUR WAY?

# 272 A:

I DIDN'T THINK THAT. I JUST -- I NEVER ASKED. I WAS HOPEFULLY GETTING THINGS ON MY OWN. BUT I -- YOU KNOW, IF HE DID, HE'D BRING IT UP ON HIS OWN. I DON'T THINK WE WERE GOING FOR THE SAME PARTS. I -- I DON'T KNOW.

# 273 Q:

WHAT I'M GETTING AT, SIR, IS THIS. YOU HOPED IT MIGHT HELP, BUT YOU WEREN'T GOING TO ASK HIM FOR HELP; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 274 A:

HE COULD HAVE HELPED ME. I MEAN -- IF IT HAPPENED, IT COULD -- HE WAS SOMEONE THAT COULD HELP ME, YES.

# 275 MS. CLARK:

YOUR HONOR, I HAVE HERE A BOARD THAT'S BEEN SHOWN. I WOULD ASK IT BE MARKED PEOPLE'S 124?

# 276 THE COURT:

129.

# 277 MS. CLARK:

29?

# 278 THE COURT:

YES.

# 279 (PEO'S 129 FOR ID = BOARD W/PHOTOS)

# 280 Q:

BY MS. CLARK: MR. KAELIN, I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO STEP DOWN AND TAKE A LOOK AT THIS BOARD AND BRING THE POINTER WITH YOU. BRING THE POINTER WITH YOU. HAVE I EVER SHOWN YOU THIS, SIR? HAVE YOU EVER SEEN THIS BOARD BEFORE?

# 281 A:

NO.

# 282 Q:

ALL RIGHT. WHY DON'T YOU TAKE A MOMENT TO LOOK AT EIGHT, ACQUAINT YOURSELF WITH IT, AND I'LL ASK YOU A FEW QUESTIONS.

# 283 A:

OKAY. YOU WANT ME TO STAND HERE?

# 284 Q:

OKAY. FIRST OF ALL, CAN YOU TELL US IN GENERAL, DOES THIS -- WHAT PROPERTY DOES THIS BOARD DEPICT?

# 285 A:

THIS IS THE ROCKINGHAM, 360 ROCKINGHAM.

# 286 Q:

ALL RIGHT. AND CAN YOU TELL US -- DOWN HERE, THERE'S A BOX THAT'S BEEN CIRCLED IN RED MARKED "KAELIN'S ROOM." DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE LOCATION SHOWN THERE?

# 287 A:

YES.

# 288 Q:

AND WAS THAT THE LOCATION WHERE YOU WERE STAYING AT 360 ROCKINGHAM?

# 289 A:

YES, IT IS.

# 290 Q:

NOW, THERE ARE TWO PHOTOGRAPHS THAT ARE -- THAT HAVE ARROWS TO THAT BOX. SEE THESE PHOTOGRAPHS, SIR?

# 291 A:

YES.

# 292 MS. CLARK:

AND FOR THE RECORD, I'M -- I APOLOGIZE TO THE COURT. I SHOULD HAVE LABELED, BUT THE PHOTOGRAPH TO THE LEFT AS YOU FACE THE DIAGRAM SHOULD BE PEOPLE'S -- SHOULD BE A AND THE PHOTOGRAPH TO THE RIGHT SHOULD BE B.

# 293 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. WE'LL MARK THAT AFTERWARDS.

# 294 MS. CLARK:

AND I'LL MARK THAT.

# 295 Q:

BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. IN PHOTOGRAPH A, CAN YOU TELL US WHAT'S SHOWN IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH?

# 296 A:

IN A?

# 297 Q:

YES.

# 298 A:

THIS IS THE FRONT ENTRANCE TO THE ROOM (INDICATING).

# 299 Q:

THOSE DOORS?

# 300 A:

THESE DOORS (INDICATING). THIS WOULD BE -- HOW I WOULD GET IN, MY BED. THIS IS THE OFFICE. THIS IS A DRESSER, T.V.

# 301 MS. CLARK:

OKAY. NOW, FOR THE RECORD, WHEN THE WITNESS SAID "OFFICE," HE GESTURED TO THE ROOM JUST BEHIND - JUST PAST THE BED. WHEN HE INDICATED THE FRONT ENTRANCE, HE INDICATED SHUTTER DOORS THAT'S SHOWN IN THE PHOTOGRAPH AND I THINK THE REST IS SELF-EXPLANATORY.

# 302 THE COURT:

YES.

# 303 Q:

BY MS. CLARK: IF YOU OPEN THESE SHUTTER DOORS AND WALK STRAIGHT OUT, SIR, CAN YOU TELL US WHERE YOU GO TO, WHAT AREA?

# 304 A:

OKAY. THERE'S CEMENT HERE, THREE STEPS THAT -- I THINK THREE THAT LEAD UP AND YOU WALK STRAIGHT UP, KIND OF HIT THE POOL, AND LEFT IS THE MAIN HOUSE AND RIGHT WOULD BE THE OTHER GUEST HOUSE (INDICATING).

# 305 Q:

WITH RESPECT TO PHOTOGRAPH B, SIR, CAN YOU TELL US WHAT'S SHOWN IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH?

# 306 A:

THIS SHOT WOULD -- PROBABLY WAS TAKEN LIKE FROM THE OFFICE SPOT AREA. THE BATHROOM, AIR-CONDITIONER, BED, SAME BED AND THIS IS LIKE A -- WHERE THE PHONE IS (INDICATING).

# 307 Q:

NIGHTSTAND?

# 308 A:

NIGHTSTAND.

# 309 Q:

ALL RIGHT. IS THERE ANYTHING ON THE WALL ABOVE THAT NIGHTSTAND?

# 310 A:

ABOVE THE NIGHTSTAND?

# 311 Q:

RIGHT. OR WAS THERE WHEN YOU WERE LIVING THERE?

# 312 A:

YEAH. A PICTURE. IT WAS RIGHT -- YEAH, RIGHT ABOUT HERE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN (INDICATING).

# 313 MS. CLARK:

FOR THE RECORD, WHEN THE WITNESS SAYS "RIGHT ABOUT HERE," HE'S REFERRING TO AN AREA JUST OUTSIDE TO THE RIGHT OF THE PHOTOGRAPH, JUST OUTSIDE THE BOUNDARY OF THE PHOTOGRAPH ON THE YELLOW PORTION OF THE DIAGRAM; AND WHEN HE INDICATED "BATHROOM," HE GESTURED TO THE ROOM IN THE PHOTOGRAPH DEPICTED PAST THE BED AGAIN WHERE THERE'S A WHITE CABINET AND A MIRROR VISIBLE.

# 314 Q:

BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. AND YOU INDICATE THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN TAKEN FROM THE VANTAGE POINT OF THE OFFICE FACING TOWARD THE BACK OF THE ROOM?

# 315 A:

THIS PICTURE, YES.

# 316 Q:

THAT'S PHOTOGRAPH B. AND YOU INDICATED --

# 317 MS. CLARK:

OH, YEAH. AND THE AIR CONDITIONER FOR THE RECORD, YOUR HONOR, IS INDICATED -- I THINK IT'S SELF-EXPLANATORY -- ON THE PHOTOGRAPH, BE RIGHT ABOVE THE LAMP.

# 318 BRIAN "KATO" KAELIN:

AND THESE ARE CLOSETS (INDICATING).

# 319 MS. CLARK:

AND FOR THE RECORD, THE WITNESS HAS GESTURED TO TWO DOORS IN THE -- ON THE WALL.

# 320 THE COURT:

ON THE FAR WALL, YES.

# 321 MS. CLARK:

YES. THANK YOU.

# 322 Q:

BY MS. CLARK: NOW, IF YOU COULD TELL US, SIR, THE ROOM AS SHOWN IN PHOTOGRAPH B, IS THAT THE CONDITION OF THE ROOM WHEN YOU LIVED THERE? DID IT LOOK LIKE THAT?

# 323 A:

YEAH. THERE'S -- MY DRESSERS AREN'T THERE.

# 324 Q:

WERE THERE DRESSERS THERE WHEN YOU LIVED THERE?

# 325 A:

THIS DRESSER AND THE NIGHTSTAND (INDICATING).

# 326 Q:

UH-HUH.

# 327 A:

THEN I HAD SOME STUFF.

# 328 Q:

AND FOR THE RECORD, WHERE ARE YOU INDICATING YOU HAD SOME STUFF?

# 329 A:

I HAD MY DRESSER HERE (INDICATING).

# 330 MS. CLARK:

FOR THE RECORD, THE WITNESS IS GESTURING TO -- ON PHOTOGRAPH B, THE WALL THAT WOULD BE JUST TO THE RIGHT OF THE DOORS.

# 331 Q:

BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. AND DID YOU KEEP CLOTHING OR THINGS ON AND IN THAT DRESSER?

# 332 A:

YES. IN THE CLOSETS.

# 333 Q:

GO AHEAD AND HAVE A SEAT.

# 334 MS. CLARK:

MAY I SHOW THE REST OF THE JURY THIS BOARD?

# 335 THE COURT:

YOU MAY.

(BRIEF PAUSE.) Q: BY MS. CLARK: I AM SORRY. MR. KAELIN, I HAVE A COUPLE MORE QUESTIONS TO ASK YOU. CAN YOU TELL US, SIR, TO WHOM THE OTHER UNITS BELONG BEHIND YOUR GUEST UNIT AS DEPICTED ON THIS DIAGRAM?

# 336 A:

COME DOWN?

# 337 Q:

YEAH.

# 338 A:

OKAY.

# 339 Q:

YEAH. GO AHEAD.

# 340 A:

WHAT WAS THE QUESTION?

# 341 Q:

YES. ARE THERE OTHER UNITS IN THAT SAME -- ALONG THIS SAME CORRIDOR HERE (INDICATING) --

# 342 A:

YES.

# 343 Q:

-- THAT ARE BEHIND YOURS?

# 344 A:

RIGHT. NEXT TO MINE WAS ARNELLE'S ROOM.

# 345 Q:

DO YOU HAVE A COMMON WALL WITH HER ROOM?

# 346 A:

YES.

# 347 Q:

ALL RIGHT. AND BEHIND HERS, WAS THERE ANOTHER ROOM?

# 348 A:

NOT BEHIND. IT WAS ON THE SIDE. IT WOULD CONNECT AND IT WOULD BE -- IT SAYS ARNELLE'S, BUT THAT WOULD BE THE MAID'S.

# 349 Q:

SO THIS END UNIT THAT SAYS "ARNELLE'S ROOM" SHOULD ACTUALLY BE MAID'S ROOM?

# 350 A:

UH-HUH. YES.

# 351 Q:

TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, IS THERE ANOTHER ROOM FOR MAIDS INSIDE THE MAIN RESIDENCE?

# 352 A:

YES.

# 353 Q:

ALL RIGHT. AS OF -- AS OF JUNE 12TH, 1994, SIR, WHO WAS LIVING IN THE MAIN MOUSE AND IN THE GUEST UNITS?

# 354 A:

O.J. IN THE MAIN HOUSE, ARNELLE IN ARNELLE'S ROOM, AND THAT'S MY ROOM (INDICATING), AND GIGI OFF AND ON.

# 355 Q:

GIGI OFF AND ON IN THAT END ROOM THAT'S AT THIS POINT MARKED AS "ARNELLE'S ROOM"?

# 356 A:

YES.

# 357 Q:

ALL RIGHT. IF YOU CAN, SIR, IF YOU WOULD COME OUT OF YOUR ROOM OUT OF THOSE SHUTTER DOORS THAT YOU'VE -- THAT ARE SHOWN IN THESE PHOTOGRAPHS A AND B --

# 358 A:

YES.

# 359 Q:

-- CAN YOU DESCRIBE WHAT IS OUTSIDE YOUR DOOR WHEN YOU STEP OUT?

# 360 A:

MY FIRST STEPS WHEN I --

# 361 Q:

RIGHT.

# 362 A:

IT'S -- FIRST STEPS OUT ARE THE CEMENT AND THEN I WOULD HAVE TO GO UPSTAIRS TO -- LEFT OR RIGHT. I COULD WALK TO ARNELLE'S ROOM IF I MADE A RIGHT OUT THE DOORS AND LEFT -- OR I'D GO UP THE STAIRS AND I'D GO LEFT, I'D GO INTO THE MAIN HOUSE THROUGH THE BACK DOORS. STRAIGHT AHEAD, IT WAS THE POOL. THERE'S LIKE A BARBECUE PIT THERE (INDICATING) AND --

# 363 Q:

OKAY. NOW, WHAT IF YOU WENT STRAIGHT THROUGH THE POOL AREA.

# 364 A:

OKAY.

# 365 Q:

WHERE WOULD YOU COME OUT?

# 366 A:

SO IF YOU GO STRAIGHT THROUGH, THERE'S A PATH. I WOULD FOLLOW IT AND I'D GO UP TO THE FRONT YARD (INDICATING).

# 367 Q:

AND IS THERE A SIDE YARD HERE THAT YOU WOULD WALK THROUGH (INDICATING)?

# 368 A:

RIGHT HERE (INDICATING).

# 369 Q:

OKAY. AND IS THIS -- THIS PATH -- IS THAT ACCURATE? THERE'S A PATH THERE THAT TAKES YOU THROUGH THE YARD (INDICATING)?

# 370 A:

YES.

# 371 Q:

AND WHERE DOES THAT PATH TAKE YOU TO? WHERE DOES IT END?

# 372 A:

ENDS -- GOES INTO THE MAIN DRIVEWAY (INDICATING).

# 373 Q:

OH, OKAY. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. HAVE A SEAT, SIR. ALL RIGHT. SO YOU INDICATED GIGI -- WHO IS GIGI?

# 374 A:

UH, GIGI WAS THE HOUSEKEEPER.

# 375 Q:

DID SHE LIVE IN ON THE PROPERTY?

# 376 A:

IT WAS -- OFF AND ON. SHE HAD A HUSBAND. I'M SURE SHE STILL DOES, AND SHE'D GO TO WHERE HE WAS AT, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES STAY THERE, SOMETIMES NOT.

# 377 Q:

OKAY. SO AT TIMES, SHE WOULD SPEND THE NIGHT ON THE PROPERTY AND OTHER TIMES NOT?

# 378 A:

YES.

# 379 Q:

WAS THERE ANY OTHER MAID THAT LIVED IN THE PROPERTY?

# 380 A:

AT THAT TIME?

# 381 Q:

YES.

# 382 A:

NO. JUST GIGI.

# 383 MR. SHAPIRO:

YOUR HONOR, I'M GOING TO OBJECT. THAT IS VAGUE, AS TO WHAT TIME, AT THAT TIME.

# 384 MS. CLARK:

I STAND CORRECTED. COUNSEL'S RIGHT.

# 385 Q:

BY MS. CLARK: AS OF JUNE THE 12TH, 1994.

# 386 A:

JUNE THE 12TH WAS GIGI.

# 387 Q:

OKAY. ALL RIGHT. AT SOME POINT -- DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO MAY OF 1994, MID TO LATE MAY, SIR, CAN YOU TELL US WHETHER YOU BEGAN LOOKING FOR ANOTHER PLACE TO LIVE?

# 388 A:

YES.

# 389 Q:

AND WHY WAS THAT?

# 390 A:

I -- I WAS PERIODICALLY LOOKING FOR PLACES TO LIVE.

# 391 Q:

DID YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH THE DEFENDANT ABOUT HIS SITUATION WITH NICOLE BROWN?

# 392 A:

YES.

# 393 Q:

AND WHAT DID HE TELL YOU ABOUT THAT?

# 394 A:

ABOUT MY LIVING ARRANGEMENT OR --

# 395 Q:

RIGHT. ABOUT YOUR LIVING ARRANGEMENT AND HIS SITUATION WITH NICOLE.

# 396 A:

UMM, THERE'S DIFFERENT THINGS. I'M --

# 397 Q:

IN MID TO LATE, DID THE DEFENDANT ASK YOU TO START LOOKING FOR A PLACE TO LIVE?

# 398 A:

DID HE ASK ME TO LOOK? NO.

# 399 Q:

DID HE INDICATE ANYTHING TO YOU WITH RESPECT TO HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH NICOLE?

# 400 A:

THEIR RELATIONSHIP WAS OVER.

# 401 Q:

HE TOLD YOU THEY WERE BROKEN UP FOR GOOD?

# 402 A:

YES.

# 403 Q:

AND THAT WAS MID TO LATE MAY OF '94?

# 404 A:

YES.

# 405 Q:

AND DID YOU START LOOKING -- DID YOU DISCUSS MOVING IN WITH SOMEONE ELSE AROUND THAT SAME TIME?

# 406 A:

I WAS -- JUST MOVING. I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS SOMEONE ELSE. I WAS LOOKING AT SOME PLACES AND NOT LOOKING AND --

# 407 Q:

MR. KAELIN, DID YOU HAVE A DISCUSSION WITH GRANT CRAMER, YOUR FRIEND, ABOUT MOVING INTO HIS APARTMENT WITH HIM MID TO LATE MAY?

# 408 A:

NO. GRANT ASKED ME TO MOVE IN, BUT I WASN'T GOING TO MOVE IN WITH HIM.

# 409 Q:

YOU WEREN'T GOING TO?

# 410 A:

NO. NO, NOT WITH HIM.

# 411 Q:

WHO WERE YOU GOING TO MOVE IN WITH?

# 412 A:

I WAS LOOKING AT A PLACE ON SAN VICENTE AND 3RD AND IT WAS A SINGLE.

# 413 Q:

AND DID YOU ACTUALLY MAKE SOME ARRANGEMENTS TO MOVE THERE?

# 414 A:

YEAH. I DID THE APPLICATION. I KNEW THE PERSON THAT WAS RENTING IT OUT.

# 415 Q:

OKAY. AND WHEN WAS IT THAT YOU MADE THAT APPLICATION?

# 416 A:

I THINK IT WAS IN MAY.

# 417 Q:

OKAY. HAD YOU MADE APPLICATION TO LIVE ANYONE ELSE BEFORE THAT?

# 418 A:

THERE WAS ANOTHER PLACE THAT WAS OFF ANOTHER ROAD IN BRENTWOOD THAT WAS PENDING WITH SOMEONE. IT WAS SOMEONE'S HOUSE AND THERE WAS -- IT WAS MOVING -- SHARING THE HOUSE WITH THEM.

# 419 Q:

AND WHEN DID YOU MAKE APPLICATION TO LIVE THERE?

# 420 A:

THAT WAS I THINK ALSO IN MAY.

# 421 Q:

OKAY. AT ANY TIME PRIOR TO MAY WHEN THE -- AT ANY TIME PRIOR TO MAY, DID YOU MAKE APPLICATION TO MOVE OUT AND MOVE INTO SOME OTHER LOCATION?

# 422 A:

NOT APPLICATIONS, BUT I WAS, YOU KNOW, LOOKING. I DIDN'T WANT TO BE A PAIN THERE.

# 423 Q:

DIDN'T THE DEFENDANT ASK YOU TO COME AND STAY WITH HIM?

# 424 A:

YES.

# 425 Q:

THEN WERE YOU UNCOMFORTABLE LIVING THERE?

# 426 A:

NO. IT WAS ANOTHER MAID THAT WAS SAYING THINGS.

# 427 Q:

ANOTHER MAID?

# 428 A:

YES. BEFORE THIS.

# 429 Q:

THAT DIDN'T WANT YOU LIVING THERE?

# 430 A:

WELL, SHE WOULD SAY THINGS. DO YOU WANT TO KNOW HER NAME?

# 431 Q:

YES.

# 432 A:

MICHELLE.

# 433 Q:

DID YOU HAVE SOME RUN-IN WITH HER?

# 434 A:

NO. SHE WOULD SAY, "O.J. WANTS YOU OUT, BUT I NEVER BELIEVE HIM. TELL HIM -- YOU SHOULD GO, KATO." I SAID, "OKAY." AND O.J. WOULD SAY, "I'LL TELL YOU WHEN TO GO, NOT MICHELLE."

KEY QUOTE

# 435 Q:

SO SHE WAS URGING YOU TO LEAVE?

# 436 A:

SINCE DAY ONE.

# 437 Q:

DO YOU KNOW WHY?

# 438 A:

DO I KNOW WHY?

# 439 Q:

YES.

# 440 A:

I DON'T KNOW. I THINK SHE JUST WANTED THE HOUSE.

# 441 Q:

WANTED THE HOUSE?

# 442 A:

WELL, I DON'T THINK SHE WANTED SOMEONE NEW THERE. I DON'T -- I MEAN, I CAN'T ANSWER --

# 443 Q:

DID SHE CLEAN -- I AM SORRY. DID SHE CLEAN YOUR ROOM?

# 444 A:

YES. SOMETIMES SHE'D COME IN AND JUST -- WOULD JUST SHOW UP.

# 445 Q:

DID YOU EVER ASK HER TO CLEAN YOUR ROOM?

# 446 A:

NO.

# 447 Q:

ALL RIGHT. DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO JUNE THE 12TH --

# 448 A:

YES.

# 449 Q:

-- CAN YOU TELL US WHO WAS IN THE HOUSE -- JUNE THE 12TH OF 1994. CAN YOU TELL US WHO WAS IN THE HOUSE ON THAT DATE?

# 450 A:

ON JUNE 12TH?

# 451 Q:

YES?

# 452 A:

JUST MYSELF AND O.J.

# 453 Q:

WAS GIGI THERE?

# 454 A:

SHE WAS NOT THERE.

# 455 Q:

HOW ABOUT ARNELLE?

# 456 A:

I DIDN'T SEE ARNELLE.

# 457 Q:

AND ARNELLE, OF COURSE, WE'RE REFERRING TO THE DEFENDANT'S DAUGHTER?

# 458 A:

YES.

# 459 Q:

DO YOU RECALL WHAT TIME IT WAS WHEN YOU FIRST SAW THE DEFENDANT ON THE DATE OF JUNE THE 12TH, 1994?

# 460 A:

I THOUGHT IT WAS LIKE IN THE AFTERNOON ABOUT 2:00, 2:30.

# 461 Q:

AND WHERE WAS IT THAT YOU HAPPENED TO SEE HIM ON THAT -- AT THAT TIME?

# 462 A:

IT WAS IN THE KITCHEN NOOK AREA.

# 463 Q:

DID YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH HIM?

# 464 A:

YES.

# 465 Q:

WHAT DID YOU TALK ABOUT?

# 466 A:

WE TALKED ABOUT HE WENT GOLFING THAT DAY AND HIS GOLF GAME AND THEN WHAT ELSE HE DID, HOW HE DID AT GOLF, AND HE PLAYED CARDS AND --

# 467 Q:

DID HE TELL YOU WHETHER HE WON OR LOST?

# 468 A:

IN GOLF OR CARDS?

# 469 Q:

GOLF?

# 470 A:

I DON'T REMEMBER.

# 471 Q:

CARDS?

# 472 A:

I -- I DON'T KNOW IF HE WON OR LOST.

# 473 Q:

OKAY. DID HE MENTION TO YOU ANY PLANS THAT HE HAD FOR LATER ON THAT DAY?

# 474 A:

YES.

# 475 Q:

AND WHAT WAS THAT?

# 476 A:

THERE WAS A RECITAL, THE DANCE RECITAL OF SIDNEY, HIS DAUGHTER WITH NICOLE.

# 477 Q:

AND WHAT TIME DID HE PLAN TO GO TO THAT?

# 478 A:

5:00 O'CLOCK RECITAL.

# 479 Q:

DID HE TALK TO YOU OR MENTION ANYTHING TO YOU ABOUT NICOLE DURING THAT CONVERSATION?

# 480 A:

UMM, IT WAS -- THEY WEREN'T TOGETHER.

# 481 Q:

HOW DID THAT COME UP?

# 482 A:

IT WAS CONVERSATION -- I MEAN, I WAS READING THE PAPER AND IT WOULD COME UP ABOUT JUST NICOLE, THAT THEIR RELATIONSHIP WAS OVER.

# 483 Q:

DO YOU RECALL HOW THAT HAPPENED TO COME UP, HOW COME YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT HIM AND NICOLE BEING THROUGH?

# 484 A:

I THINK HE -- IT JUST CAME UP ABOUT HE WAS GOING TO THE RECITAL. I THINK IT HAD TO DO WITH PAULA BECAUSE I THINK O.J. JUST WANTED TO GO TO THE RECITAL ON HIS OWN AND I THINK SHE WANTED TO GO AND I THINK IT JUST CAME UP LIKE THAT.

# 485 Q:

DID PAULA CALL AT SOME POINT THAT AFTERNOON DURING THAT CONVERSATION?

# 486 A:

GOSH, I -- I THINK SO. I -- I CAN'T RECOLLECT IT. I'M -- I THINK SO.

# 487 Q:

AND WHO DO YOU MEAN WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT PAULA? WHO IS THAT?

# 488 A:

UMM, O.J.'S GIRLFRIEND.

# 489 Q:

PAULA BARBIERI IS THAT?

# 490 A:

YES.

# 491 Q:

DID YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH THE DEFENDANT ABOUT PAULA BARBIERI?

# 492 A:

THAT -- I THINK SHE WANTED TO GO AND THAT WAS IT, THAT I THINK O.J. JUST WANTED TO MAKE IT KIND OF A FAMILY THING, JUST BE ON HIS OWN.

# 493 Q:

DID HE TELL YOU THAT PAULA WAS UPSET BECAUSE SHE WANTED TO GO TO THE RECITAL?

# 494 A:

UH-HUH. YES.

# 495 Q:

SHE WANTED TO SHOW NICOLE THAT SHE WAS THE DEFENDANT'S GIRL?

# 496 MR. SHAPIRO:

OBJECTION.

# 497 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED.

# 498 Q:

BY MS. CLARK: NO. IS THIS WHAT THE DEFENDANT TOLD YOU?

# 499 THE COURT:

REPHRASE THE QUESTION.

# 500 MS. CLARK:

I'M SORRY, YOUR HONOR.

# 501 Q:

BY MS. CLARK: WHAT DID THE DEFENDANT TELL YOU THAT PAULA SAID TO HIM?

# 502 A:

I THINK SHE WAS UPSET THAT SHE WASN'T GOING TO GO.

# 503 MR. SHAPIRO:

OBJECTION. HEARSAY.

# 504 MS. CLARK:

1220, YOUR HONOR.

# 505 THE COURT:

1220.

# 506 MS. CLARK:

EVIDENCE CODE SECTION.

# 507 THE COURT:

NO. I KNOW. I'M THINKING. I'M GOING TO SUSTAIN THE OBJECTION.

# 508 MS. CLARK:

CAN I BE HEARD?

# 509 THE COURT:

SURE. HOW ABOUT LATER?

# 510 MS. CLARK:

OKAY.

# 511 THE COURT:

PROCEED.

# 512 MS. CLARK:

WELL, I AM GOING TO GET PAST IT. HOW LATE ARE WE GOING TO GO?

# 513 THE COURT:

TILL YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE. IS THIS A GOOD POINT?

# 514 MS. CLARK:

I GUESS SO, SO THAT WE CAN WORK THIS THROUGH BECAUSE THEN --

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Brian Kaelin

O.J. SAID HE DIDN'T WANT MY MONEY AND THAT WAS IT.

Establishes the nature of Kaelin's dependency on Simpson — free rent in exchange for friendship — which the prosecution uses to suggest motive for Kaelin to protect Simpson.

Brian Kaelin

YOU CAN STAY AS LONG AS YOU WANT AND WHEN IT'S TIME FOR YOU TO GO, HE'D LET ME KNOW.

Kaelin quoting Simpson's invitation to Rockingham, framing the power dynamic: Simpson controlled Kaelin's housing situation.

Brian Kaelin

O.J. WANTS YOU OUT, BUT I NEVER BELIEVE HIM. TELL HIM -- YOU SHOULD GO, KATO. I SAID, 'OKAY.' AND O.J. WOULD SAY, 'I'LL TELL YOU WHEN TO GO, NOT MICHELLE.'

Kaelin recounting the maid Michelle's pressure campaign — reveals Simpson's possessiveness and control over who lived on his property.

Brian Kaelin

FEEL GREAT. LITTLE NERVOUS.

Kato being Kato — disarming, slightly contradictory answer to a simple question. Sets the tone for his meandering testimony style.

Evidence (2)

People's 86

Photograph of the Bundy townhouse at 875 South Bundy Drive, Nicole Brown Simpson's residence

Shown to witness for identification; defense stipulates to the location

People's 129

Board with aerial diagram and photographs of 360 North Rockingham, including labeled rooms (Kaelin's room, Arnelle's room) and two interior photographs (A and B) of Kaelin's guest unit

Introduced; witness steps down and uses pointer to narrate layout

Notable Exchanges (3)

Marcia Clark•Robert Shapiro

Shapiro attempts to shortcut the Bundy photo identification with a stipulation; Clark resists, noting she hasn't shown the witness any photographs and wants him to independently identify the location.

strategic

Marcia Clark•Brian Kaelin

Clark presses Kaelin on whether he hoped living at Rockingham would help his acting career. Kaelin deflects repeatedly: 'I never asked for anything like that.' Clark rephrases until he concedes Simpson 'was someone that could help me.'

probing

Marcia Clark•Robert Shapiro•Lance A. Ito

Clark invokes Evidence Code Section 1220 (party admissions) to try to get in what Paula Barbieri said to Simpson. Ito sustains the hearsay objection anyway and the examination breaks for the day on this unresolved evidentiary dispute.

tense

Light Moments (3)

Brian Kaelin

Asked if he's nervous, Kaelin responds: 'Feel great. Little nervous.' — simultaneously contradicting himself and endearing himself to the jury.

Brian Kaelin

Kaelin volunteers to describe the Gretna Green house 'starting from the driveway,' then wanders through a rambling layout description that Clark has to repeatedly steer.

Brian Kaelin

Kaelin speculates the maid Michelle wanted him gone because 'I think she just wanted the house' — then immediately walks it back: 'I don't think she wanted someone new there. I don't -- I mean, I can't answer --'

Credibility Attacks (1)

⚔ Brian Kaelin

bias / self-interest

Clark herself (as the calling party, in an unusual move) elicits that Kaelin lived rent-free at Rockingham and hoped Simpson's connections might help his acting career — preemptively surfacing a motive for Kaelin to be partial to Simpson.

Witness Demeanor

Nervous but amiable; frequently gives rambling answers and requires redirection

Loses track of questions mid-answer ('What was that?')

Speaks in a casual, stream-of-consciousness register inconsistent with formal courtroom testimony

Physically steps down from the stand to point at diagrams, then forgets the question when he returns

Objections

4 objections (2 sustained, 1 overruled)

Proceeding 5365 • 514 utterances • Prosecution witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103