Cross-examination of Philip Vannatter (part 2) (1 of 2)

📄 Cross-examination of Philip Vannatter (part 2) (1 of 2) — Tuesday, March 21, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\MAR\21\CROSS-EXAMINATION-OF-PHILIP-VA.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 42 of 167

◀ Sidebar: defendant's statement Jury entry and witness stand resumption ▶

Witness: Det. Philip Vannatter
Examiner: Robert Shapiro
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Tuesday, March 21, 1995 • Utterances: 97

Shapiro cross-examines Vannatter on the handling of OJ Simpson's blood sample, focusing on why it wasn't immediately booked into evidence at Parker Center after being drawn. Shapiro methodically establishes that Vannatter had the means and opportunity to book the blood on the spot, ultimately getting Vannatter to concede he could have done so.

# 1 (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:)

# 2 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

# 3 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: I WANT TO MAKE SURE, IT HAS JUST BEEN POINTED OUT TO ME, SO THAT THERE IS NO MISUNDERSTANDING, WAS THERE ANY BLOOD TRAIL FOUND LEADING AWAY FROM THE GLOVE INTO THE RESIDENCE?

# 4 A:

NO, I DIDN'T FIND ANY.

# 5 Q:

AND REGARDING YOUR CONVERSATION WITH KATO, DID HE TELL YOU THAT A LIMOUSINE HAD COME TO PICK UP O.J.?

# 6 A:

HE TOLD ME THAT HE HAD SEEN A LIMOUSINE THERE, YES.

# 7 Q:

AND DETECTIVE FUHRMAN WAS AWARE OF THAT, WAS HE NOT?

# 8 MR. DARDEN:

CALLS FOR SPECULATION AND HEARSAY, YOUR HONOR.

# 9 THE COURT:

IF HE KNOWS.

# 10 DET. PHILIP VANNATTER:

I BELIEVE I HEARD FROM HIS TESTIMONY THAT HE KNEW THAT, YEAH. I DIDN'T KNOW THAT AT THAT TIME.

# 11 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: WHEN YOU TOOK O.J.'S BLOOD SAMPLE, YOU WERE AT A PLACE CALLED PARKER CENTER?

# 12 A:

YES, SIR.

# 13 Q:

THAT IS THE MAIN LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT HEADQUARTERS?

# 14 THE COURT:

MR. DARDEN.

# 15 MR. DARDEN:

EXCUSE ME, YOUR HONOR. WOULD YOU KINDLY ASK MR. COCHRAN TO RETURN TO HIS CHAIR, PLEASE.

# 16 THE COURT:

MR. COCHRAN, IS THERE SOME REASON YOU NEED TO BE THERE?

# 17 MR. COCHRAN:

I WAS SITTING OVER HERE BECAUSE OF THE DIAGRAM, YOUR HONOR.

# 18 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT.

# 19 MR. COCHRAN:

IF WE ARE FINISHED WITH THAT --

# 20 THE COURT:

I THINK WE ARE.

# 21 MR. COCHRAN:

I WILL GO BACK TO MY SIDE GLADLY.

# 22 MR. SHAPIRO:

I WILL WALK HIM BACK.

# 23 THE COURT:

PROCEED.

# 24 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: IS THAT THE MAIN HEADQUARTERS FOR THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT?

# 25 A:

YES.

# 26 Q:

AND IS THAT A PLACE -- YOU USED THE WORD "BUY A DR NUMBER." IS THAT A POLICE PARLANCE FOR OBTAINING THAT NUMBER?

# 27 A:

YES.

# 28 Q:

YOU DON'T ACTUALLY GO TO A LOCATION, DO YOU, TO BUY IT?

# 29 A:

NO. THAT IS JUST A TERM OF OBTAINING A DR NUMBER.

# 30 Q:

AND IT IS SOMETHING THAT IS VERY EASILY OBTAINED AND VERY REGULARLY OBTAINED?

# 31 A:

THAT'S CORRECT, YES.

# 32 Q:

AND IT DOESN'T TAKE MUCH TO OBTAIN A DR NUMBER, DOES IT?

# 33 A:

NO.

# 34 Q:

YOU SIMPLY WALK DOWN TO THE CLERK AND ASK FOR ONE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

# 35 A:

WELL, IN THIS CASE THE DR NUMBER --

# 36 Q:

NOT IN THIS CASE. IN THE GENERAL CASE YOU SIMPLY WALK DOWN AND ASK FOR ONE?

# 37 A:

NO, NO, THAT IS NOT TRUE.

# 38 Q:

HOW DO YOU GET A DR NUMBER?

# 39 A:

THE DR NUMBERS COME FROM THE DIVISION OF OCCURRENCE WHICH MEANT THAT THIS DR NUMBER HAD TO COME FROM WEST LOS ANGELES DIVISION.

# 40 Q:

SO YOU HAVE TO GO OUT TO WEST LOS ANGELES TO GET IT?

# 41 A:

OR TELEPHONE WEST LOS ANGELES.

# 42 Q:

SO IS IT YOUR TESTIMONY THAT YOU COULDN'T WALK DOWNSTAIRS IN PARKER CENTER, GO TO THE CLERK AND ASK THE CLERK TO CALL WEST LOS ANGELES TO GET A DR NUMBER?

# 43 A:

WELL, OF COURSE I COULD HAVE DONE THAT.

# 44 Q:

THAT WOULD TAKE, WHAT, LESS THAN A MINUTE?

# 45 A:

WELL, IF I DID IT THAT WAY IT WOULD HAVE TAKEN LONGER THAN A MINUTE. I COULD HAVE ACTUALLY MADE THE PHONE CALL MYSELF; I DIDN'T.

# 46 Q:

HOW LONG WOULD THAT TAKE?

# 47 A:

PROBABLY TEN MINUTES' TIME.

# 48 Q:

AND THERE IS AN EVIDENCE LOCKER THERE TO STORE BLOOD EVIDENCE, IS THERE NOT?

# 49 A:

YES.

# 50 Q:

AND THERE IS REFRIGERATION FACILITIES THERE?

# 51 A:

YES.

# 52 Q:

AND THE CRIMINAL LABORATORY THAT IS RUN BY THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT, WHERE IS THAT LOCATED?

# 53 A:

IT IS ON VIGNES STREET. IT IS CALLED PIPER TECH.

# 54 Q:

HOW FAR IS PIPER TECH IN MILES, IF YOU KNOW, FROM PARKER CENTER?

# 55 A:

APPROXIMATELY A MILE.

# 56 Q:

AND HOW LONG -- HOW FAR IS PARKER CENTER FROM THE ROCKINGHAM LOCATION?

# 57 A:

APPROXIMATELY 20 MILES.

# 58 Q:

20 MILES?

# 59 A:

YEAH, APPROXIMATELY.

# 60 Q:

NOW, THE EVIDENCE THAT YOU COLLECTED FROM MR. SIMPSON, THE BLOOD EVIDENCE, IS VERY SENSITIVE EVIDENCE, IS IT NOT?

# 61 A:

YES, VERY SENSITIVE.

# 62 Q:

AND AS AN EXPERIENCED DETECTIVE YOU WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE WAS A MEASURED AMOUNT OF BLOOD IN THERE, DID YOU NOT?

# 63 A:

MEASURED AMOUNT OF BLOOD?

# 64 Q:

YEAH. YOU WANTED TO KNOW HOW MUCH BLOOD YOU HAD TO START OUT WITH, DIDN'T YOU, BECAUSE YOU WERE GOING TO USE THIS AS WHAT THEY CALL A REFERENCE SAMPLE?

# 65 A:

THAT WOULD NOT BE FOR ME TO DETERMINE. THE AMOUNT DRAWN IS DONE BY THE NURSE AND THEN THE AMOUNT USED IS DONE BY THE CRIMINALIST; NOT BY ME.

# 66 Q:

WHAT DID THE NURSE KNOW ABOUT THIS CASE THAT DREW THE BLOOD?

# 67 A:

I -- NO, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, SIR. I DIDN'T DO THE DRAWING OF THE BLOOD; THE NURSE ACTUALLY DREW THE BLOOD.

# 68 Q:

WHAT DID THE NURSE KNOW ABOUT THIS CASE?

# 69 A:

THE NURSE KNEW NOTHING ABOUT THE CASE. I ASKED THE NURSE TO DRAW ME A BLOOD SAMPLE.

KEY QUOTE

# 70 Q:

DID YOU ASK THE NURSE OR REQUEST THE NURSE TO DRAW A SPECIFIC AMOUNT OF BLOOD?

# 71 A:

NO, SIR, I DID NOT.

# 72 Q:

YOU JUST LEFT THAT UP TO THE NURSE WHO KNEW NOTHING ABOUT THE CASE?

# 73 A:

WELL, I THINK -- I THINK THERE IS STANDARDS FOR DRAWING BLOOD SAMPLES.

# 74 Q:

WHAT ARE THE STANDARDS?

# 75 A:

I DON'T KNOW. I DON'T DRAW BLOOD SAMPLES.

# 76 Q:

WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THERE ARE STANDARDS?

# 77 A:

I WOULD ASSUME THAT A SAMPLE THAT IS TAKEN IS A STANDARD SAMPLE. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT WOULD BE.

# 78 Q:

AND DOESN'T LAPD POLICY REQUIRE BLOOD SAMPLES TO BE BOOKED IMMEDIATELY?

# 79 A:

AS SOON AS PRACTICAL, YES.

# 80 Q:

DOES IT SAY "IMMEDIATELY" OR "AS SOON AS PRACTICAL"?

# 81 A:

WELL, IMMEDIATE -- IMMEDIATELY TO ME MEANS AS SOON AS PRACTICAL.

# 82 Q:

WELL, I KNOW WHAT IT MEANS TO YOU, BUT I'M SAYING WHAT DOES THE POLICY SAY WITHOUT YOUR INTERPRETATION?

# 83 A:

AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

# 84 Q:

IT SAYS "AS SOON AS POSSIBLE"? IS THAT WHAT THE MANUAL --

# 85 A:

YES.

# 86 Q:

ARE YOU SURE OF THAT?

# 87 A:

WELL, IT SAYS "IMMEDIATELY" OR -- LET ME WITHDRAW THAT. IT SAYS "IMMEDIATELY" IS WHAT IT SAYS. TO ME "IMMEDIATELY" MEANS AS SOON AS PRACTICAL, AS SOON AS CAN BE DONE.

# 88 Q:

AND AS SOON AS CAN BE DONE WAS WHEN YOU HAD IT IN YOUR HAND TO WALK DOWN, CALL UP, GET YOUR DR NUMBER, AND IN THE SAME BUILDING YOU WERE IN, TURN IT OVER TO THE EVIDENCE ROOM AND HAVE THAT MARKED AND BOOKED AND PROPERLY REFRIGERATED, RIGHT?

# 89 A:

THAT COULDN'T BE DONE AT THAT POINT.

# 90 Q:

WHY NOT?

# 91 A:

BECAUSE OTHER EVIDENCE HAD BEEN GATHERED. EVIDENCE HAS TO BE BOOKED IN A SEQUENCE. I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT NUMBER THE BLOOD WOULD BE IN THE SEQUENCE. TO ME, ONCE I TURNED IT OVER TO THE CRIMINALIST, IT HAS BEEN BOOKED ANYWAY.

# 92 Q:

SO YOU ARE TELLING US UNDER OATH THAT YOU, AS THE LEAD DETECTIVE, COULD NOT HAVE BOOKED A VIAL OF BLOOD TAKEN FROM O.J. SIMPSON AT PARKER CENTER WHERE THE BLOOD WAS TAKEN? IS THAT YOUR TESTIMONY, SIR?

KEY QUOTE

# 93 A:

NO, NO, NO. I COULD HAVE DONE THAT.

KEY QUOTE

# 94 MR. SHAPIRO:

OKAY. THANK YOU.

# 95 THE COURT:

I WAS JUST ABOUT TO TAKE A BREAK.

# 96 MR. SHAPIRO:

OKAY.

# 97

THE COURT: LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, I NEED TO CHANGE COURT REPORTERS AT THIS TIME. PLEASE REMEMBER MY ADMONITIONS TO YOU. DON'T DISCUSS THE CASE AMONG YOURSELVES, DON'T FORM ANY OPINIONS ABOUT THE CASE, DON'T ALLOW ANYBODY TO COMMUNICATE WITH YOU, DON'T PERFORM ANY DELIBERATIONS UNTIL THE MATTER IS SUBMITTED TO YOU. WE WILL BE IN RECESS UNTIL ELEVEN O'CLOCK. DETECTIVE VANNATTER, YOU MAY STEP DOWN, SIR. (RECESS.)

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (4)

Robert Shapiro

SO YOU ARE TELLING US UNDER OATH THAT YOU, AS THE LEAD DETECTIVE, COULD NOT HAVE BOOKED A VIAL OF BLOOD TAKEN FROM O.J. SIMPSON AT PARKER CENTER WHERE THE BLOOD WAS TAKEN? IS THAT YOUR TESTIMONY, SIR?

The culminating challenge of the blood-booking line of questioning, forcing Vannatter to admit he could have booked it immediately

Philip Vannatter

NO, NO, NO. I COULD HAVE DONE THAT.

Vannatter concedes the blood could have been booked immediately at Parker Center, undermining his prior justifications for the delay

Philip Vannatter

WELL, IT SAYS 'IMMEDIATELY' OR -- LET ME WITHDRAW THAT. IT SAYS 'IMMEDIATELY' IS WHAT IT SAYS. TO ME 'IMMEDIATELY' MEANS AS SOON AS PRACTICAL, AS SOON AS CAN BE DONE.

Vannatter contradicts himself mid-answer on what LAPD policy actually states, damaging his credibility on blood handling procedures

Philip Vannatter

THE NURSE KNEW NOTHING ABOUT THE CASE. I ASKED THE NURSE TO DRAW ME A BLOOD SAMPLE.

Establishes that no one with case knowledge supervised or specified the blood draw, leaving the quantity and procedure entirely to a uninformed nurse

Evidence (3)

Informal

OJ Simpson's blood sample drawn at Parker Center

challenged — Shapiro questions why it was not immediately booked into evidence at the same facility

Informal

LAPD DR (Division of Records) number and booking procedure

discussed — Shapiro probes how quickly a DR number could be obtained and evidence booked

Informal

Glove found at Rockingham

discussed briefly — Shapiro confirms no blood trail led from the glove into the residence

Notable Exchanges (3)

Robert Shapiro•Philip Vannatter

Shapiro systematically walks Vannatter through the geography and logistics of Parker Center — evidence locker, refrigeration, proximity to the crime lab — to establish that immediate booking of the blood vial was entirely feasible, ending with Vannatter's admission that he could have done it.

strategic

Robert Shapiro•Philip Vannatter

Shapiro presses Vannatter on LAPD policy language around blood booking — 'immediately' vs. 'as soon as possible' vs. 'as soon as practical' — catching Vannatter changing his answer mid-response before ultimately admitting the policy says 'immediately.'

revealing

Christopher Darden•Lance A. Ito•Johnnie Cochran

Darden interrupts to ask the judge to return Cochran to his seat; Cochran explains he was near the diagram, and Shapiro quips he will walk Cochran back himself.

light

Light Moments (1)

Robert Shapiro

After Darden complains about Cochran being out of his seat, Shapiro offers: 'I WILL WALK HIM BACK.'

Credibility Attacks (2)

⚔ Philip Vannatter

prior inconsistent statement / self-contradiction

Vannatter contradicted himself on what LAPD policy says about booking blood evidence — first saying 'immediately,' then 'as soon as possible,' then admitting the policy says 'immediately' while redefining the word — all within a single answer.

⚔ Philip Vannatter

establishment of feasibility

Shapiro forced Vannatter to concede that booking the blood vial immediately at Parker Center was entirely possible, undermining Vannatter's implicit suggestion that the delay in booking was unavoidable.

Objections

1 objections (0 sustained, 0 overruled)

Proceeding 5348 • 97 utterances • Prosecution witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103