Cross-examination of Philip Vannatter (part 1)

📄 Cross-examination of Philip Vannatter (part 1) — Tuesday, March 21, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\MAR\21\CROSS-EXAMINATION-OF-PHILIP-VA.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 42 of 167

◀ Video preview and map discussion Sidebar: defendant's statement ▶

Witness: Det. Philip Vannatter
Examiner: Robert Shapiro
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Tuesday, March 21, 1995 • Utterances: 510

Robert Shapiro cross-examines Detective Vannatter, methodically exposing errors and omissions across the investigation: the Rockingham glove appears in none of the four detectives' notes or the chronological record; the search warrant affidavit signed under penalty of perjury contained two false or premature claims (that Simpson left on an 'unexpected' trip and that blood was confirmed human); and Vannatter admits he did not photograph or examine Simpson's body for injuries despite suspecting him of a violent struggle. The tone is relentlessly strategic, with Shapiro building a picture of investigative sloppiness or worse.

# 1 (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

# 2 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. PLEASE BE SEATED. DETECTIVE VANNATTER, WOULD YOU RESUME THE WITNESS STAND, PLEASE.

PHILIP VANNATTER, THE WITNESS ON THE STAND AT THE TIME OF THE EVENING ADJOURNMENT, RESUMED THE STAND AND TESTIFIED FURTHER AS FOLLOWS:

# 3 THE COURT:

LET THE RECORD REFLECT WE HAVE NOW BEEN REJOINED BY ALL THE MEMBERS OF OUR JURY PANEL. GOOD MORNING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

# 4 THE JURY:

GOOD MORNING.

# 5 THE COURT:

MY APOLOGIES TO YOU AGAIN FOR THE LATE START THIS MORNING. WE HAD A DELAY IN GETTING SOME OF THE LAWYERS TO COURT TODAY BECAUSE OF THE RAIN-RELATED TRAFFIC PROBLEMS, THINGS THAT YOU HAVE PROBABLY FORGOTTEN ABOUT RECENTLY. ALL RIGHT. DETECTIVE PHILIP VANNATTER IS STILL ON THE WITNESS STAND UNDERGOING CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. SHAPIRO. GOOD MORNING, DETECTIVE VANNATTER.

# 6 DET. PHILIP VANNATTER:

GOOD MORNING, YOUR HONOR.

# 7 THE COURT:

DETECTIVE, YOU ARE REMINDED YOU ARE STILL UNDER OATH. AND MR. SHAPIRO, YOU MAY CONTINUE.

# 8 MR. SHAPIRO:

THANK YOU VERY MUCH. GOOD MORNING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

# 9 THE JURY:

GOOD MORNING.

# 10

CROSS-EXAMINATION (RESUMED)

# 11

BY MR. SHAPIRO:

# 12 Q:

GOOD MORNING, DETECTIVE.

# 13 A:

GOOD MORNING, MR. SHAPIRO.

# 14 Q:

YESTERDAY YOU INDICATED THAT YOU WOULD LIKE SOME TIME TO REVIEW YOUR REPORTS TO SEE IF YOU MADE ANY INDICATION IN ANY OF YOUR RECORDS AS TO WHETHER YOU WERE SHOWN ANY BLOOD SMEARS BY DETECTIVE FUHRMAN. HAVE YOU HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT, SIR?

# 15 A:

YES. I DON'T RECALL HIM SHOWING ME ANY BLOOD SMEARS THAT MORNING.

# 16 Q:

AND THERE IS NO INDICATION THAT YOU WERE SHOWN ANY BLOOD SMEARS BY DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?

# 17 A:

NO. I COULDN'T FIND ANY, NO.

# 18 Q:

AND IF DETECTIVE FUHRMAN TESTIFIED THAT THERE WERE BLOOD SMEARS ON THE DOOR, THAT WOULD CERTAINLY BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE IMPORTANT FOR HIM TO POINT OUT TO YOU, WOULD IT NOT?

# 19 A:

HE MAY HAVE POINTED THEM OUT. I DON'T RECALL HIM DOING THAT.

# 20 Q:

WELL, THIS IS SOMETHING VERY IMPORTANT, IS IT NOT, WHAT BLOOD YOU SAW ON THE BRONCO AT ROCKINGHAM?

# 21 A:

PARDON, SIR? I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND YOU.

# 22 Q:

IS THE OBSERVATION OF BLOOD ON THE BRONCO SOMETHING THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT IN A HOMICIDE INVESTIGATION LIKE THIS?

# 23 A:

YES, SIR.

# 24 Q:

AND IF YOU WERE SHOWN BLOOD SMEARS ON THE BOTTOM OF THE BRONCO, ISN'T THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD REMEMBER?

# 25 A:

I -- I -- I DON'T RECALL HIM SHOWING THEM TO ME. HE COULD HAVE. I DON'T RECALL IT.

# 26 Q:

MY QUESTION IS ISN'T THAT SOMETHING YOU WOULD REMEMBER, IF THOSE WERE SHOWN TO YOU?

# 27 A:

I DON'T -- I DON'T KNOW HOW TO ANSWER THAT SINCE I DON'T RECALL THEM BEING SHOWN TO ME.

# 28 Q:

THAT IS THE BEST ANSWER YOU GIVE AS TO WHETHER OR NOT YOU WOULD REMEMBER BLOOD SMEARS AT ROCKINGHAM?

# 29 MR. DARDEN:

OBJECTION. ARGUMENTATIVE, YOUR HONOR.

# 30 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED.

# 31 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: DID IT EVER DAWN ON YOU, SIR, THAT IF THERE WERE BLOOD SMEARS AT THE -- WELL, YOU SAW BLOOD SMEARS INSIDE THE DOOR ON THE BOTTOM OF THE BRONCO, DIDN'T YOU?

# 32 A:

TOWARD THE TOP, TOWARD THE WINDOW, YES.

# 33 Q:

DID YOU SEE ANY BLOOD TOWARDS THE BOTTOM OF THE DOOR?

# 34 A:

DOWN INSIDE THE VEHICLE?

# 35 Q:

YES.

# 36 A:

NO.

# 37 Q:

DID IT EVER DAWN ON YOU THAT DETECTIVE FUHRMAN MUST HAVE GONE INSIDE THAT CAR FOR HIM TO SEE THOSE BLOOD SPOTS?

# 38 MR. DARDEN:

OBJECTION. THAT IS VAGUE.

# 39 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED. REPHRASE THE QUESTION.

# 40 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: IF DETECTIVE FUHRMAN TESTIFIED THAT HE SAW BLOOD SMEARS ON THE BOTTOM OF THE BRONCO AND YOUR RECOLLECTION IS YOU DID NOT SEE BLOOD SMEARS AND THAT DETECTIVE FUHRMAN DIDN'T SHOW THEM TO YOU, DID IT DAWN ON YOU THAT DETECTIVE FUHRMAN MUST HAVE GONE INSIDE THE BRONCO TO MAKE THESE OBSERVATIONS?

# 41 MR. DARDEN:

OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. MISSTATES THE WITNESS' TESTIMONY.

# 42 THE COURT:

OVERRULED ON THAT GROUND.

# 43 DET. PHILIP VANNATTER:

AS I RECALL DETECTIVE FUHRMAN'S TESTIMONY, THE BLOOD SMEARS HE SAW WERE ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE VEHICLE; NOT INSIDE.

# 44 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: DID THAT RAISE A QUESTION IN YOUR MIND, SINCE YOU NEVER SAW BLOOD SMEARS OUTSIDE THE VEHICLE?

# 45 MR. DARDEN:

OBJECTION, MISSTATES THE WITNESS' TESTIMONY.

# 46 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED. REPHRASE THE QUESTION.

# 47 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: DID IT CAUSE YOU CONCERN, SINCE YOU DON'T REMEMBER SEEING ANY BLOOD STAINS OUTSIDE THE VEHICLE?

# 48 A:

NO. THERE WAS A LOT OF BLOOD THERE THAT I DIDN'T SEE ORIGINALLY.

# 49 Q:

I'M TALKING ABOUT OUTSIDE THE VEHICLE. WAS THERE A LOT OF BLOOD ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE VEHICLE THAT YOU DIDN'T SEE AT ANY POINT IN TIME?

# 50 A:

YES. I DON'T RECALL SEEING THE BLOOD SMEARS ALONG THE PANEL OF THE DOOR AT THE BOTTOM.

# 51 Q:

DID YOU EVER SEE THOSE BLOOD SMEARS?

# 52 A:

I SAW A REPORT THAT THEY WERE TESTED PRESUMPTIVE FOR BLOOD.

# 53 Q:

DID YOU EVER SEE THOSE BLOOD SMEARS YOURSELF?

# 54 A:

I DON'T RECALL SEEING THEM, NO, SIR.

# 55 Q:

DID YOU TESTIFY YESTERDAY THAT YOU DID SEE THEM?

# 56 A:

NO, SIR, I DID NOT.

# 57 Q:

DID YOU TESTIFY YESTERDAY THAT YOU DID NOT RECALL SEEING THE BLOOD SMEARS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE BRONCO THAT NIGHT BUT YOU DID SEE THEM AT SOME LATER TIME?

# 58 A:

I DON'T BELIEVE I SAID THAT. I DON'T RECALL SEEING THOSE SMEARS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE DOOR.

# 59 MR. SHAPIRO:

MAY I SHOW YOU YOUR TESTIMONY OF YESTERDAY WE HAVE TAKEN THIS OFF A COMPUTER AND PERHAPS I CAN READ IT TO HIM. THESE ARE OFF THE LIVE NOTES BUT WE CAN MAYBE LOCATE IT FROM THE TRANSCRIPT.

# 60 THE COURT:

I WOULD PREFER THE TRANSCRIPT, WHICH WE HAVE GONE TO --

# 61 MR. SHAPIRO:

I WILL MOVE ON TO ANOTHER MATTER.

# 62 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT.

# 63 (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 64 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: WHEN CRIMINALIST FUNG CAME OUT AT YOUR ORDER, DID HE TEST ANYTHING AT THE BOTTOM OF THE BRONCO FOR BLOOD?

# 65 A:

I BELIEVE THAT TESTING WAS DONE AT A LATER DATE.

# 66 Q:

DID YOU PHOTOGRAPH HIM POINTING OUT ANY BLOOD AT THE BOTTOM OF THE BRONCO OR CAUSE HIM TO BE PHOTOGRAPHED DOING THAT?

# 67 A:

NO. I WASN'T THERE WHEN THE PHOTOGRAPHS WERE DONE.

# 68 Q:

DID YOU ORDER PHOTOGRAPHS TO BE TAKEN?

# 69 A:

YES, SIR, I DID.

# 70 Q:

WHAT DID YOU ORDER TO BE PHOTOGRAPHED?

# 71 A:

THE ITEMS OF EVIDENCE THAT I WAS AWARE OF.

# 72 Q:

AND DID YOU ORDER THE BLOOD -- THAT BLOOD STAIN THAT YOU HAVE REFERRED TO ON THE DOOR HANDLE OF THE BRONCO, THAT WAS PRETTY SMALL?

# 73 A:

YES. AND IT WAS ABOVE THE DOOR HANDLE, NOT ACTUALLY ON THE HANDLE.

# 74 Q:

ABOVE THE DOOR HANDLE?

# 75 A:

YES, SIR.

# 76 Q:

AND YOU ORDERED CRIMINALIST FUNG TO DO A PHENOTHALINE TEST?

# 77 A:

YES. A PRESUMPTIVE BLOOD TEST, THAT'S CORRECT.

# 78 Q:

AND A PRESUMPTIVE BLOOD TEST ONLY SHOWS THAT THE SUBSTANCE COULD POSSIBLY BE BLOOD; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 79 A:

YES.

# 80 Q:

IT COULD ALSO BE VEGETABLE SUBSTANCES THAT WOULD GIVE A POSITIVE READING?

# 81 MR. DARDEN:

OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.

# 82 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED. CALLS FOR --

# 83 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: DO YOU KNOW WHAT ELSE COULD GIVE A POSITIVE READING?

# 84 A:

NO, I AM NOT AN EXPERT IN THAT.

# 85 Q:

YOU DIDN'T HEAR THE TESTIMONY OF THE EXPERTS AT THE PRELIMINARY HEARING WHEN YOU WERE SITTING THERE?

# 86 MR. DARDEN:

OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.

# 87 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED.

# 88 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: DID YOU HEAR THE TESTIMONY -- HAVE YOU HEARD EXPERTS TESTIFY AS TO WHAT A PRESUMPTIVE TEST FOR BLOOD IS?

# 89 MR. DARDEN:

OBJECTION, IRRELEVANT.

# 90 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 91 DET. PHILIP VANNATTER:

YES.

# 92 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: AND DO YOU KNOW WHETHER ANY OTHER SUBSTANCES, BASED ON TESTIMONY YOU'VE HEARD FROM OTHER EXPERTS, FROM EXPERTS IN THE FIELD, COULD BE A SUBSTANCE OTHER THAN BLOOD?

# 93 MR. DARDEN:

OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.

# 94 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. I THINK IT IS A 352 PROBLEM.

# 95 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: LET ME NOW GO BACK TO YOUR TRANSCRIPT OF YESTERDAY. I WANT TO DRAW THE COURT'S ATTENTION TO PAGE 19556, LINES 1 AND 10, SIR, AND ASK YOU TO READ THAT YOURSELF.

# 96 (WITNESS COMPLIES.)

# 97 MR. SHAPIRO:

MAY I PUT THIS UP ON THE ELMO, YOUR HONOR?

# 98 THE COURT:

YES.

# 99 MR. SHAPIRO:

OKAY.

# 100 (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 101 MR. SHAPIRO:

GO DOWN A LITTLE BIT, MR. HARRIS, PLEASE. (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 102 MR. DARDEN:

COULD THE COURT --

# 103 THE COURT:

I'M SORRY?

# 104 MR. DARDEN:

I WANT TO ASK THAT THE COURT REQUIRE MR. SHAPIRO TO SHOW THE DETECTIVE --

# 105 THE COURT:

I'M GOING TO GIVE DETECTIVE VANNATTER THE COURT'S COPY OF THE TRANSCRIPT SO HE DOESN'T HAVE TO LOOK AT THE MONITOR.

# 106 MR. DARDEN:

MAY HE BE ALLOWED TO READ ALL THE WAY DOWN TO LINE 22?

# 107 THE COURT:

WE HAVE THE WHOLE --

# 108 MR. DARDEN:

THE WHOLE EXCHANGE?

# 109 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. MR. HARRIS, YOU NEED TO BACK OUT JUST A LITTLE THERE. ALL RIGHT. PROCEED.

# 110 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: DO YOU RECALL BEING ASKED THE QUESTION REGARDING DETECTIVE FUHRMAN THAT YOU HEARD HIM TESTIFY THAT THERE WERE BLOOD SMEARS ON THE BOTTOM OF THE DOOR, DIDN'T YOU?

# 111 A:

I HEARD HIM TESTIFY TO THAT, YES.

# 112 Q:

AND YOUR ANSWER WAS, "I DID, YES"; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 113 A:

YES.

# 114 Q:

AND THEN YOU WERE ASKED: "DID YOU SEE THOSE?" DO YOU RECALL THAT?

# 115 A:

YES.

# 116 Q:

AND DID YOU ANSWER THAT QUESTION: "I DID AT A LATER TIME. I DON'T RECALL HIM SHOWING THEM TO ME THAT NIGHT."

# 117 A:

YES.

# 118 MR. DARDEN:

YOUR HONOR, I WOULD ASK THAT MR. SHAPIRO BE REQUIRED TO PRESENT TO THE JURY ALL OF THE -- RATHER, THE ENTIRE EXCHANGE ALL THE WAY UP TO LINE 22.

# 119 THE COURT:

MR. SHAPIRO.

# 120 MR. SHAPIRO:

YOUR HONOR, I THINK THAT WOULD BE PROPER FOR CROSS-EXAMINATION. THIS IS WHAT I WANTED TO SHOW. I THINK IT DIRECTLY IMPEACHES THE WITNESS.

# 121 MR. DARDEN:

THIS IS CROSS-EXAMINATION.

# 122 MS. CLARK:

THIS IS CROSS-EXAMINATION.

# 123 THE COURT:

THIS IS CROSS.

# 124 MR. SHAPIRO:

I MEAN A REDIRECT EXAMINATION OF THE PEOPLE.

# 125 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. OVERRULED. PROCEED.

# 126 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: AND YOU ORDERED DETECTIVE -- YOU ORDERED CRIMINALIST FUNG TO DO A PHENOTHALINE TEST ON THAT SMALL BLOOD DROP ON THE BRONCO; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 127 A:

YES.

# 128 Q:

DID YOU REALIZE AT THAT TIME THAT BY DOING THE TEST YOU WOULD PERMANENTLY DESTROY THAT EVIDENCE FOR ANY SUBSEQUENT DNA ANALYSIS?

# 129 A:

NO, I DIDN'T REALIZE THAT.

# 130 Q:

AND THAT IN FACT IS WHAT HAPPENED, ISN'T IT?

# 131 MR. DARDEN:

OBJECTION.

# 132 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED.

# 133 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: HAVE YOU BEEN ABLE TO ANALYZE THAT SPOT BY DNA ANALYSIS?

# 134 MR. DARDEN:

OBJECTION.

# 135 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 136 DET. PHILIP VANNATTER:

HAVE I BEEN ABLE TO?

# 137 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: HAS ANYBODY, TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, BEEN ABLE TO?

# 138 MR. DARDEN:

OBJECTION, CALLS FOR HEARSAY.

# 139 THE COURT:

OVERRULED. I THINK YOU CAN ASK HIM HAS THAT BEEN SUBMITTED.

# 140 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: HAS THAT BEEN SUBMITTED FOR DNA ANALYSIS, TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE?

# 141 A:

I DON'T KNOW THAT TO MY KNOWLEDGE.

# 142 Q:

NOW, YOU TOLD US YESTERDAY THAT WHEN YOU WENT INTO THE ROCKINGHAM ESTATE THAT THERE WAS NO DIRECTION AS TO WHERE THE DETECTIVES SHOULD GO; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 143 THE COURT:

COUNSEL, WHAT TIME? KIND OF VAGUE.

# 144 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: AS YOU ENTERED ROCKINGHAM, YOU TOLD US YESTERDAY THAT YOU SEARCHED THE GROUNDS TO SEE IF ANYBODY WAS INJURED IN THE AREA; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 145 A:

YES.

# 146 Q:

AT THAT TIME DID YOU GIVE ANY DIRECTION TO DETECTIVE LANGE AS TO WHAT TO DO?

# 147 A:

NO.

# 148 Q:

DID YOU GIVE ANY DIRECTION TO DETECTIVE FUHRMAN AS TO WHAT TO DO?

# 149 A:

NO.

# 150 Q:

DID YOU GIVE ANY DIRECTION TO DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AS TO WHAT TO DO?

# 151 A:

NO.

# 152 Q:

IT WAS ALL BEING IMPROVISED BY EACH DETECTIVE, ACCORDING TO HIS OWN DESIRES?

# 153 A:

WELL, WE WERE ALL SEASONED POLICE OFFICERS. OUR PURPOSES FOR BEING THERE WAS TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYBODY WAS OKAY AT THE LOCATION.

# 154 Q:

DID YOU SEE WHERE DETECTIVE LANGE WENT?

# 155 A:

YEAH. I WAS CLOSE TO DETECTIVE LANGE MOST OF THE TIME.

# 156 Q:

SO WERE YOU WORKING AS PARTNERS DURING THAT OBSERVATION PHASE?

# 157 A:

YEAH. WE WORK AS PARTNERS ALL THE TIME, YES.

# 158 Q:

AND EVERYWHERE YOU WENT HE WENT?

# 159 A:

NOT EVERYWHERE, NO.

# 160 Q:

WHERE DID HE GO THAT YOU DIDN'T GO?

# 161 A:

HE WENT TO THE BACK DOOR OF THE LOCATION. I LATER WENT THERE. HE REMAINED IN THE KITCHEN WHEN I WENT INTO THE MAID'S QUARTERS AND HE REMAINED IN THE KITCHEN WHEN I WENT BACK INTO THE BAR AREA. AND THEN I WAS OUT OF HIS VIEW FOR A PERIOD OF TIME AFTER THAT.

# 162 Q:

DID YOU DIRECT ANYBODY, WHEN YOU ENTERED, TO LOOK FOR PEOPLE TO FIND WHERE IS O.J.?

# 163 MR. DARDEN:

OBJECTION. THIS IS ASKED AND ANSWERED FROM YESTERDAY, YOUR HONOR.

# 164 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 165 DET. PHILIP VANNATTER:

WE HAD DISCUSSED OUR PURPOSE FOR BEING THERE AND OUR PURPOSE FOR GOING OVER THE WALL WAS TO CHECK THE WELFARE AND SEE IF THERE WERE ANY OCCUPANTS AT THE HOME THAT WAS KNOWN BETWEEN THE FOUR OF US.

# 166 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: IS IT STANDARD POLICE PROCEDURE, WHEN A WITNESS IS AWAKENED, TO GIVE THEM A TEST FOR ALCOHOL OR DRUG INTOXICATION?

# 167 A:

STANDARD?

# 168 Q:

YES.

# 169 A:

I THINK THAT WOULD DEPEND ON THE CIRCUMSTANCES.

# 170 Q:

DID YOU GIVE ANY DIRECTION TO DETECTIVE FUHRMAN REGARDING A MAN KNOWN AS BRIAN KATO KAELIN?

# 171 A:

NO.

# 172 Q:

HE GAVE YOU DIRECTION, THOUGH, DIDN'T HE?

# 173 A:

NO, HE DIDN'T GIVE ME DIRECTION.

# 174 Q:

HE DIDN'T TELL YOU TO TALK TO KATO?

# 175 A:

HE ASKED ME TO SPEAK WITH HIM.

# 176 Q:

DID HE TELL YOU WHAT HE WANTED YOU TO SPEAK TO KATO ABOUT?

# 177 A:

BRIEFLY, YES.

# 178 Q:

WHAT DID HE TELL YOU HE WANTED TO SPEAK ABOUT?

# 179 A:

HE SAID THAT KATO HAD HEARD SOME SOUNDS OUTSIDE OF HIS ROOM THAT HE THOUGHT WAS AN EARTHQUAKE AND HE WANTED ME TO TALK TO HIM ABOUT THAT.

# 180 Q:

AT THAT TIME DID YOU KNOW WHERE O.J. SIMPSON WAS?

# 181 A:

I BELIEVE I WAS AWARE THAT A PHONE CALL WAS BEING MADE TO FIND OUT WHERE HE WAS AT.

# 182 Q:

AT THAT TIME WERE YOU AWARE OF WHERE O.J. SIMPSON WAS? YES OR NO?

# 183 A:

I -- I MAY HAVE BEEN. I'M NOT SURE.

# 184 Q:

DID YOU ASK KATO "WHERE'S O.J."?

# 185 A:

YES, I DID.

# 186 Q:

AND DID HE TELL YOU HE HAD GONE ON A TRIP TO CHICAGO FOR HERTZ?

# 187 A:

YES, HE DID.

# 188 Q:

AND HE PUT THAT -- AND YOU WROTE THAT DOWN IN YOUR NOTES, DID YOU NOT?

# 189 A:

YES.

# 190 Q:

DID YOU KNOW THAT -- DID YOU KNOW WHERE O.J. WAS AT THE TIME THAT YOU WALKED INTO THE HOUSE WITH THE MAID -- LOOKING FOR THE MAID, I'M SORRY?

# 191 A:

NO, I DID NOT.

# 192 Q:

WHEN YOU CAME IN LOOKING FOR THE MAID DID YOU ASK ANYBODY WHERE'S O.J. AT THAT TIME?

# 193 A:

I DID NOT, NO.

# 194 Q:

DID YOU ASK ARNELLE SIMPSON "WHERE'S O.J."?

# 195 A:

AT WHAT POINT?

# 196 Q:

WHEN YOU CAME IN LOOKING FOR THE MAID?

# 197 A:

I HAD ASKED HER PREVIOUSLY.

# 198 Q:

DID YOU ASK HER IF HE WAS IN THE HOUSE?

# 199 A:

YES.

# 200 Q:

AND WHAT DID SHE SAY?

# 201 A:

SHE GESTURED TOWARD THE HOUSE AND SAID "ISN'T I HERE?" AND I ASKED HER, IS HE? DO YOU HAVE A KEY? CAN WE GO CHECK?" AND SHE TOOK US INTO THE HOME.

# 202 Q:

DID YOU ASK HER WHERE O.J.'S BEDROOM WAS?

# 203 A:

NO, I DID NOT.

# 204 Q:

IF YOU WERE CONCERNED ABOUT O.J., WOULDN'T YOU WANT TO GO UP TO HIS BEDROOM AND SEE IF HE WAS STILL SLEEPING?

# 205 A:

IF HE HADN'T HAD BEEN ACCOUNTED FOR, YES. HE WAS ACCOUNTED FOR AT A POINT THERE THAT MORNING.

# 206 Q:

BUT HE WASN'T ACCOUNTED FOR IMMEDIATELY, WAS HE?

# 207 A:

NO, SIR, HE WASN'T.

# 208 Q:

AND THERE WAS A PERIOD OF TIME WHEN YOU WERE CONCERNED ABOUT LOOKING FOR THE MAID AND SITTING AND TALKING TO KATO BEFORE YOU WERE CONCERNED ABOUT WHERE IS O.J.; ISN'T THAT TRUE?

# 209 A:

BEFORE I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT LOOKING FOR O.J.?

# 210 Q:

CORRECT.

# 211 A:

I THINK THE MAIN CONCERN WAS TO LOCATE O.J. AND THAT WAS DONE QUITE QUICKLY AFTER WE ARRIVED IN THERE BY PHONE CALL. HE WAS ACCOUNTED FOR. THE MAID WAS OBVIOUSLY NOT THERE. AT THAT POINT IS WHEN I BELIEVE I STARTED WALKING BACK TOWARD THE BACK. I KNEW THEY WERE ON THE PHONE ATTEMPTING TO LOCATE O.J. AT THAT POINT.

# 212 Q:

YOUR FIRST KNOWLEDGE OF THE ACCOUNTABILITY OF O.J. SIMPSON WAS BECAUSE OF A PHONE CALL?

# 213 A:

YES. I HEARD ARNELLE TELL EITHER DETECTIVE PHILLIPS OR LANGE THAT SHE COULD MAKE A PHONE CALL TO HIS SECRETARY AND SHE WOULD ALWAYS KNOW WHERE HE WAS AT.

# 214 Q:

AND DID YOU GET THE RESULTS OF THAT PHONE CALL?

# 215 A:

AT A LATER TIME, YES.

# 216 Q:

WHAT TIME DID YOU CONFIRM THAT O.J. SIMPSON WAS IN CHICAGO?

# 217 A:

OH, I WAS TOLD THAT BY KATO AND THEN I WAS LATER TOLD THAT BY MY PARTNER.

# 218 Q:

WHAT TIME DID YOU CONFIRM IT?

# 219 A:

SHORTLY AFTER SIX O'CLOCK THAT MORNING.

# 220 Q:

WHAT TIME DO YOUR PHONE RECORDS INDICATE THAT O.J. SIMPSON WAS CONTACTED IN CHICAGO?

# 221 A:

IF I COULD SEE THE RECORDS I COULD TELL YOU.

# 222 Q:

OKAY. DO YOU HAVE THOSE RECORDS?

# 223 A:

YEAH. THIS MAY BE IN MY BOOK THERE.

# 224 Q:

WE TALKED ABOUT THAT YESTERDAY, DIDN'T WE?

# 225 A:

YEAH.

# 226 MR. SHAPIRO:

WE ASKED YOU TO LOOK FOR THAT. THEY ARE IN THIS BOOK. MAY I BRING THESE UP, YOUR HONOR?

# 227 THE COURT:

YOU MAY.

# 228 (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 229 DET. PHILIP VANNATTER:

THERE ARE VOLUMES OF RECORDS. I'M HAVING A HARD TIME RIGHT NOW LOCATING THEM.

# 230 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

# 231 MR. SHAPIRO:

MAYBE -- YOUR HONOR, I WOULD HAVE NO OBJECTION TO DETECTIVE LANGE HELPING DETECTIVE PHILLIPS (SIC) TRY TO LOCATE THIS.

# 232 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. DETECTIVE LANGE, WHY DON'T YOU TAKE THE INVESTIGATION NOTEBOOKS AND SEE IF YOU CAN FIND THE PHONE RECORDS FOR THAT POINT IN TIME.

# 233 (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 234 THE COURT:

MR. SHAPIRO, LET ME SUGGEST THAT DETECTIVE LANGE MAKE THE RECORD SEARCH AND WE PROCEED WITH ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR DETECTIVE VANNATTER.

# 235 MR. SHAPIRO:

THAT IS ACCEPTABLE, YOUR HONOR.

# 236 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT.

# 237 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: IS IT YOUR POSITION, DETECTIVE VANNATTER, THAT PRIOR TO TRYING TO GO UP TO A BEDROOM OR LOOK AROUND THE HOUSE FOR O.J., YOU DECIDED TO TRY TO LOCATE HIM TELEPHONICALLY?

# 238 A:

I DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND THAT. COULD YOU SAY THAT AGAIN? MY CONTENTION WHAT?

# 239 MR. SHAPIRO:

YOUR HONOR, COULD THAT BE REREAD TO THE WITNESS?

# 240 THE COURT:

"IS IT YOUR POSITION, DETECTIVE VANNATTER, THAT PRIOR TO TRYING TO GO UP TO A BEDROOM OR LOOK AROUND THE HOUSE FOR O.J. YOU DECIDED TO TRY TO LOCATE HIM TELEPHONICALLY?"

# 241 DET. PHILIP VANNATTER:

THAT IS WHAT OCCURRED WITH HIS DAUGHTER, YES.

# 242 MR. SHAPIRO:

HOW ABOUT IF WE REFER TO THE DEFENDANT AS MR. SIMPSON.

# 243 MR. SHAPIRO:

THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

# 244 Q:

DETECTIVE VANNATTER, YOU APPLIED FOR SEVERAL SEARCH WARRANTS IN THIS CASE, DID YOU NOT?

# 245 A:

YES.

# 246 Q:

AND A SEARCH WARRANT REQUIRES AN AFFIDAVIT SIGNED UNDER PENALTY OF PERJURY, DOES IT NOT?

# 247 A:

YES.

# 248 Q:

AND THAT REQUIREMENT IS SO THAT AN INDEPENDENT MAGISTRATE OR A JUDGE CAN MAKE A DETERMINATION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT A SEARCH WARRANT SHOULD ISSUE AND NOT LET THE POLICE RELY ON THEIR OWN INSTINCTS; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

# 249 A:

YES.

# 250 Q:

AND IN FILLING OUT A SEARCH WARRANT YOU INDICATED TO A MAGISTRATE UNDER, PENALTY OF PERJURY, THAT YOU WERE TOLD THAT O.J. SIMPSON HAD LEFT ON AN UNEXPECTED MIGHT TO CHICAGO, DID YOU NOT?

# 251 A:

I DIDN'T SAY I WAS TOLD THAT.

# 252 Q:

YOU REPORTED --

# 253 A:

I DID WRITE THAT IN THE SEARCH WARRANT, YES.

# 254 Q:

AND YOU SIGNED THAT UNDER PENALTY OF PERJURY?

# 255 A:

YES. THAT'S CORRECT, SIR.

# 256 Q:

AND THAT WASN'T TRUE, WAS IT?

# 257 A:

I FIND -- I FOUND OUT LATER THAT THAT INFORMATION WAS INCORRECT. THAT WAS BASED ON ARNELLE SIMPSON'S RESPONSE THAT MORNING, AS WELL AS KATO KAELIN TELLING ME THAT HE HAD RECEIVED A PHONE CALL AFTER SIMPSON HAD LEFT THE RESIDENCE TELLING HIM TO ALARM THE HOUSE, THAT HE WAS GOING TO CHICAGO ON A BUSINESS TRIP FOR HERTZ.

KEY QUOTE

# 258 Q:

YOU FILLED OUT THE AFFIDAVIT FOR THE SEARCH WARRANT AT WHAT TIME, SIR?

# 259 A:

I STARTED THAT APPROXIMATELY 7:45 IN THE MORNING.

# 260 Q:

AND WHAT TIME DID YOU PRESENT IT TO A MAGISTRATE, SIR?

# 261 A:

IT WAS SIGNED AT 10:45.

# 262 Q:

AND THE MAGISTRATE ASKED YOU TO MAKE SOME HAND CORRECTIONS IN THERE, DID SHE NOT?

# 263 A:

YES.

# 264 Q:

AND ISN'T IT TRUE, SIR, THAT AT SIX O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING YOUR HANDWRITTEN NOTES INDICATE THAT IN YOUR INTERVIEW WITH KATO KAELIN THAT HE TOLD YOU THAT O.J. SIMPSON HAD LEFT ON A FLIGHT FOR CHICAGO FOR HERTZ?

# 265 A:

YES, THAT'S CORRECT.

# 266 Q:

AND DID YOU ALSO INDICATE, UNDER PENALTY OF PERJURY, SIR, THAT YOU OBSERVED WHAT APPEARED TO BE HUMAN BLOOD, WHICH WAS LATER CONFIRMED BY A CRIMINALIST TO BE HUMAN BLOOD?

# 267 A:

YES, I SAID THAT.

# 268 Q:

AND ISN'T IT TRUE AT THE TIME THAT THAT WAS NOT A TEST TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THIS WAS HUMAN BLOOD?

# 269 A:

THAT IS TRUE. I MISSTATED THAT I GUESS BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE. I BELIEVED IT WAS HUMAN BLOOD AND I THINK NOW -- I THINK STILL IT IS HUMAN BLOOD. I THINK IT HAS BEEN PROVEN TO BE HUMAN BLOOD.

KEY QUOTE

# 270 Q:

YOU ALSO SAID, SIR, DID YOU NOT, YOU OBSERVED BLOOD ON THE CONSOLE OF THE BRONCO AND BLOOD INSIDE THE DOOR PANELING OF THE BRONCO, DID YOU NOT?

# 271 A:

YES, SIR.

# 272 Q:

DID YOU INCLUDE THAT INFORMATION IN YOUR SEARCH WARRANT?

# 273 A:

NO.

# 274 Q:

WHY NOT?

# 275 A:

I JUST -- THAT WAS A QUICK ATTEMPT TO GET A SEARCH WARRANT TO MOVE THE INVESTIGATION ALONG. I DIDN'T -- I MISSED SOME THINGS IN IT THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN IT.

# 276 Q:

DID YOU MAKE ANY NOTES IN THAT IN ANY REPORTS THAT WERE FILED IN THIS CASE?

# 277 A:

NO, SIR, I DIDN'T.

# 278 Q:

REGARDING THE GLOVE THAT YOU SAW, WHERE IN YOUR REPORTS REGARDING ROCKINGHAM DID YOU SHOW THAT A GLOVE WAS FOUND AT ROCKINGHAM?

# 279 A:

IT IS IN THE SEARCH WARRANT AND IT IS ALSO IN THE FOLLOW-UP REPORT.

# 280 Q:

IT IS IN THE -- I SAID WHERE IN YOUR NOTES ARE THEY SHOWN?

# 281 A:

THERE ARE NO NOTES.

# 282 Q:

WHERE IN DETECTIVE LANGE'S NOTES IS IT SHOWN THAT A GLOVE WAS FOUND AT ROCKINGHAM?

# 283 A:

I -- I -- I DON'T BELIEVE IT IS IN LANGE'S NOTES.

# 284 Q:

WHERE IN DETECTIVE PHILLIPS' NOTES IS IT SHOWN THAT A GLOVE WAS FOUND AT ROCKINGHAM?

# 285 A:

I DON'T BELIEVE HE HAS ANY NOTES.

# 286 Q:

WHERE IN DETECTIVE FUHRMAN'S NOTES IS IT SHOWN THAT A GLOVE WAS FOUND IN ROCKINGHAM?

KEY QUOTE

# 287 A:

IT IS NOT, SIR.

# 288 Q:

WHERE IN THE MASTER NOTE-TAKER'S NOTES IS IT SHOWN THAT A GLOVE WAS FOUND AT ROCKINGHAM?

# 289 A:

IT IS IN THE CRIMINALIST'S NOTES THAT HE RECOVERED THE PIECE OF EVIDENCE AND THOSE WERE TAKEN AT MY DIRECTION.

# 290 Q:

WHEN WAS THAT?

# 291 (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.)

# 292 Q:

WHEN WERE THOSE NOTES TAKEN?

# 293 A:

THE MORNING OF THE 13TH.

# 294 Q:

AT YOUR DIRECTION?

# 295 A:

THAT'S CORRECT, YES.

# 296 Q:

DO YOU HAVE THOSE NOTES?

# 297 A:

NO, SIR, I DON'T. THOSE ARE CRIMINALIST WORK PRODUCT.

# 298 Q:

A CHRONOLOGICAL RECORD IS REQUIRED TO BE KEPT IN ALL CASES OF HOMICIDE INVESTIGATION, IS IT NOT?

# 299 A:

YES, SIR.

# 300 Q:

WHERE IN THE CHRONOLOGICAL RECORD DOES IT INDICATE THAT ANY OF THE FOUR OFFICERS THERE RECOVERED A GLOVE?

# 301 A:

IT DOESN'T.

# 302 Q:

WHILE -- MR. BAILEY, WOULD YOU HELP ME WITH THIS BOARD, PLEASE.

# 303 (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 304 MR. SHAPIRO:

WOULD THE COURT -- YOUR HONOR, MAY WE TRY TO PUT IT OVER ON THIS SIDE? IT MIGHT --

# 305 THE COURT:

SURE. THE TRADITIONAL LOCATION.

# 306 (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 307 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: THIS IS A DIAGRAM THAT YOU PREVIOUSLY AUTHENTICATED AT THE DIRECTION OF MR. DARDEN; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 308 A:

YES, SIR.

# 309 Q:

AND IN PUTTING UP A DIAGRAM FOR A JURY YOU WANT TO BE CERTAIN THAT THAT DIAGRAM IS ACCURATE, DO YOU NOT?

# 310 A:

IT APPEARS TO BE ACCURATE, YEAH.

# 311 Q:

WELL, HAS ANYBODY LOOKED AT IT TO MAKE SURE THAT IT IS ACCURATE?

# 312 A:

IT APPEARS TO BE ACCURATE.

# 313 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. MR. SHAPIRO, WHICH PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT IS THIS?

# 314 MR. SHAPIRO:

THIS IS EXHIBIT 66, YOUR HONOR.

# 315 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. PROCEED.

# 316 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: NOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU HAVE TOLD US ABOUT IS A PATH OF BLOOD THAT LED FROM THE CONTROL GATE AT ROCKINGHAM TO THE FRONT ENTRANCE OF THE HOUSE AT ROCKINGHAM; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 317 A:

WELL, I DON'T THINK IT WAS A PATH. THERE WAS BLOOD DROPLETS THAT APPEARED TO BE A TRAIL, YES.

# 318 Q:

HOW MANY BLOOD DROPLETS CONSTITUTE A TRAIL?

# 319 A:

WELL, IT COULD GO FROM -- FROM ONE, TWO, TO 5000, IF IT PROCEEDED THAT FAR.

# 320 Q:

AND IT WAS YOUR OPINION THAT THE PERSON WHO DROPPED THE GLOVE AT ROCKINGHAM WAS INVOLVED IN THE MURDERS OF NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON AND RONALD GOLDMAN; IS IT NOT?

# 321 A:

YES, IT IS.

# 322 Q:

I TAKE IT THEN THAT IF THERE WAS BLOOD COMING FROM ROCKINGHAM TO THE ENTRANCE OF THE HOUSE, THAT SAME PERSON WOULD BE BLEEDING AT THE TIME THAT THE GLOVE WAS PLACED IN THE CONDITION -- IN THE AREA OUTSIDE OF KAELIN'S ROOM; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 323 MR. DARDEN:

OBJECTION, CALLS FOR SPECULATION.

# 324 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED.

# 325 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: IS IT -- IS IT -- DID -- IS IT YOUR OPINION THAT THE PERSON WHO DID THE KILLING WAS BLEEDING AT THE TIME HE CAME OR SHE CAME TO ROCKINGHAM?

# 326 A:

YES.

# 327 Q:

I TAKE IT THEN THERE WAS A THOROUGH SEARCH FOR BLOOD FROM THE AREA OF ROCKINGHAM -- FROM ROCKINGHAM TO THE AREA WHERE THE GLOVE WAS FOUND?

# 328 A:

YES, THAT'S CORRECT.

# 329 Q:

HOW MUCH BLOOD WAS FOUND THERE?

# 330 A:

NONE. NONE THAT I AM AWARE OF.

# 331 Q:

I TAKE IT A THOROUGH SEARCH WAS DONE OF THE ADJACENT PROPERTY FOR BLOOD; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 332 A:

THE AREA WAS SEARCHED, YES.

# 333 Q:

FOR BLOOD?

# 334 A:

WELL, SEARCHED FOR ANY TYPE OF EVIDENCE.

# 335 Q:

WAS IT SEARCHED FOR BLOOD?

# 336 A:

YES, SIR, THAT WOULD INCLUDE ANY TYPE OF EVIDENCE.

# 337 Q:

HOW MUCH BLOOD WAS FOUND THERE?

# 338 A:

NONE.

# 339 Q:

I TAKE IT A THOROUGH SEARCH OF THE FENCE WAS UNDERTAKEN IF SOMEBODY CLIMBED THE FENCE FOR BLOOD?

# 340 A:

YES.

# 341 Q:

HOW MUCH BLOOD WAS FOUND THERE?

# 342 A:

NONE.

# 343 Q:

I TAKE IT A THOROUGH SEARCH WAS DONE OF THE WALLS?

# 344 A:

THAT'S CORRECT, YES.

# 345 Q:

HOW MUCH BLOOD WAS FOUND THERE?

# 346 A:

NONE.

# 347 Q:

NOW, THE PERSON WHO DROPPED -- STRIKE THAT. YOU ARE AWARE THAT THERE ARE WAYS TO GET INTO THE ROCKINGHAM HOUSE FROM THE SIDE AREA WHERE THE GLOVE WAS FOUND, ARE YOU NOT?

# 348 A:

I OBSERVED A DOOR THERE ON THE SIDE. I DON'T KNOW WHERE IT LEADS INTO THE HOUSE.

# 349 Q:

THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WAS VERY IMPORTANT IN YOUR INVESTIGATION, WASN'T IT, AS TO WHERE DOORS WOULD LEAD?

# 350 A:

I WOULDN'T SAY THAT IMPACTED ME, NO.

# 351 Q:

YOU WOULDN'T BE CONCERNED IF THERE WAS A WAY FOR SOMEBODY TO AVOID DETECTION AND COME IN THROUGH THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE?

# 352 A:

THERE DIDN'T APPEAR ANY -- TO BE ANY EVIDENCE THAT ANYBODY HAD GONE IN THAT WAY.

# 353 Q:

DID YOU CHECK TO SEE?

# 354 A:

I LOOKED AT THE DOOR, YES.

# 355 Q:

WHERE DID YOU LOOK AT THE DOOR?

# 356 A:

FROM THE OUTSIDE.

# 357 Q:

WHICH DOOR DID YOU LOOK AT? WAS THAT THIS DOOR HERE, (INDICATING)?

# 358 A:

IT WAS A DOOR THAT WAS TOWARD THE BACK OF THE GARAGE, I BELIEVE, THAT MAY HAVE LED INTO THE LAUNDRY ROOM OR SOMETHING.

# 359 Q:

TOWARD THE BACK OF THE GARAGE?

# 360 A:

YES.

# 361 Q:

WHERE IS THAT DOOR SHOWN ON THIS DIAGRAM?

# 362 A:

MAY I STAND UP?

# 363 Q:

SURE. WHY DON'T YOU USE THAT.

# 364 A:

I BELIEVE IT IS SHOWN RIGHT IN HERE, (INDICATING).

# 365 MR. SHAPIRO:

MAY WE MARK THAT SOMEHOW FOR IDENTIFICATION? MAYBE JUST A STICKER, YOUR HONOR?

# 366 THE COURT:

DO YOU HAVE ONE AVAILABLE? I'M --

# 367 MR. SHAPIRO:

YES. MAYBE WE CAN JUST USE AN EVIDENCE TAG. DO YOU WANT ME TO MARK IT WITH A MARKER, YOUR HONOR? WHAT DO YOU PREFER?

# 368 THE COURT:

BY GOLLY, YOU GOT ME UNPREPARED. MRS. ROBERTSON, I HAVE SOME OF THOSE PEEL OFF ARROW THINGS.

# 369 MR. SHAPIRO:

THAT IS WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR.

# 370 (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 371 THE COURT:

MR. SHAPIRO, DO YOU WANT TO APPROACH IN THE WELL, PLEASE.

# 372 MR. SHAPIRO:

THIS IS A FULL SERVICE COURT.

# 373 THE COURT:

IT IS.

# 374 MR. SHAPIRO:

THANK YOU, JUDGE.

# 375 (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 376 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: DETECTIVE VANNATTER, WOULD YOU BE KIND ENOUGH TO SHOW ME -- PUT THAT ON THE DIAGRAM.

# 377 A:

YEAH. I BELIEVE THIS INDICATES THE DOOR HERE, (INDICATING).

# 378 Q:

THAT IS THE ONLY DOOR ON THE SIDE OF THE LOCATION THAT ALLOWS ACCESS INTO THE ROCKINGHAM CASE -- INTO THE ROCKINGHAM HOUSE, ACCORDING TO YOUR INVESTIGATION?

# 379 A:

I NEVER WENT THROUGH THE DOOR, SO I -- I DON'T -- I DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS ANY OTHER DOORS THERE OR NOT. I DON'T RECALL ANY OTHER.

# 380 Q:

WELL, YOU HAD TWO SEARCH WARRANTS FOR THIS HOUSE, DID YOU NOT?

# 381 A:

THAT'S CORRECT, YES.

# 382 Q:

AND YOU ALSO WERE LOOKING AROUND TO SEE WHETHER THERE WERE ANY BODIES LYING AROUND, WERE YOU NOT?

# 383 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 384 Q:

AND YOU ALSO HAVE APPROVED OF THIS DIAGRAM, HAVE YOU NOT?

# 385 A:

IT APPEARS TO BE ACCURATE TO ME, YES.

# 386 Q:

SO YOU WOULD CERTAINLY WANT TO KNOW HOW ANYBODY COULD GET INTO THE HOUSE AND TO CHECK TO SEE WHETHER THERE IS ANY BLOOD TRAIL THERE, WOULD YOU NOT?

# 387 A:

THERE WAS NO BLOOD TRAIL FOUND.

# 388 Q:

WELL, BUT YOU WOULD NOT KNOW THAT UNLESS YOU KNEW WHERE ALL THE ENTRANCES TO THE HOUSE WERE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

# 389 A:

WELL, THERE WAS AN APPARENT BLOOD TRAIL THAT LED FROM THE ROCKINGHAM GATE FROM THE STREET RIGHT INTO THE FRONT DOOR. I THINK THAT WOULD -- UNLESS YOU HAD A WHOLE BUNCH OF PEOPLE THERE BLEEDING, THAT WOULD PRECLUDE ANY OTHER BLOOD TRAILS AND THERE WAS NO OTHER BLOOD FOUND.

# 390 Q:

WOULD IT BE SURPRISE YOU, SIR, TO LEARN THAT THERE IS A DOOR THAT GOES INTO THE GARAGE THAT LEADS INTO THE KITCHEN OF THE HOUSE?

# 391 A:

NO, THAT WOULDN'T SURPRISE ME. THAT IS A POSSIBILITY. IT COULD BE THERE.

# 392 MR. DARDEN:

I'M SORRY, MR. SHAPIRO JUST PLACED ANOTHER PIECE OF TAPE ON THE EXHIBIT.

# 393 THE COURT:

HE DID.

# 394 MR. DARDEN:

I WOULD ASK HIM TO REMOVE IT.

# 395 THE COURT:

I THINK WE NEED TO HAVE THOSE PLACED ON BY WITNESSES, IF POSSIBLE.

# 396 MR. SHAPIRO:

I'M SORRY?

# 397 THE COURT:

HOW ABOUT IF YOU REMOVED THE SECOND ARROW, PLEASE, AT THIS POINT.

# 398 MR. SHAPIRO:

WELL, CAN I JUST INDICATE THAT HE SAID THAT -- ALL RIGHT. I WILL JUST REMOVE THAT. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

# 399 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

# 400 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: ALSO, YOU DETERMINED WHAT OTHER WAYS THERE WAS -- EXCUSE ME. DID YOU DETERMINE OTHER WAYS THAT AN INDIVIDUAL MIGHT BE ABLE TO GAIN ACCESS TO THE ROCKINGHAM GROUNDS, OTHER THAN THE FRONT DOOR OR THROUGH THE TWO GATES?

# 401 A:

I BELIEVE -- YES.

# 402 Q:

IS THAT CORRECT?

# 403 A:

YES, IT IS, AND I BELIEVE ACCESS COULD BE GAINED THROUGH THE NEIGHBOR'S PROPERTY AND THROUGH THE TENNIS COURT.

# 404 Q:

WOULD YOU INDICATE THAT WITH THE POINTER, PLEASE.

# 405 A:

I NEVER WALKED THAT AREA, BUT I WAS TOLD THAT YOU COULD ENTER THE NEIGHBOR'S PROPERTY AND COME THROUGH THE TENNIS COURTS AND THROUGH A GATE THAT WAS OVER IN THIS AREA THAT CAME ONTO THE PROPERTY.

# 406 Q:

AND SO THAT -- IF SOMEBODY WANTED TO AVOID BEING SEEN, THEY COULD ENTER THAT WAY; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 407 A:

OH, YEAH, THERE WOULD BE MANY WAYS YOU COULD ENTER WITHOUT BEING SEEN, PROBABLY.

# 408 Q:

AND IS IT POSSIBLE, SIR, TO GET TO THIS AREA OF THE HOUSE?

# 409 MR. DARDEN:

I'M SORRY. I CAN'T SEE, YOUR HONOR.

# 410 MR. SHAPIRO:

EXCUSE ME, MR. DARDEN.

# 411 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: IS IT POSSIBLE, DETECTIVE VANNATTER, TO GET TO THE BACK DOOR OF THE HOUSE FROM THIS AREA BY HEADING AROUND THE BACK TO WHERE ARNELLE'S ROOM IS?

# 412 A:

YES, THAT IS POSSIBLE.

# 413 Q:

THAT SIMPLY REQUIRES COMING RIGHT THROUGH THE AREA MARKED "ARNELLE'S ROOM" BETWEEN THE TENNIS COURT AND THE SIDE OF ARNELLE'S ROOM; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 414 A:

AND CLIMBING TWO FENCES, CORRECT.

# 415 Q:

AND THAT FENCE -- TWO FENCES?

# 416 A:

TWO FENCES, YES.

# 417 Q:

ARE YOU SURE?

# 418 A:

I BELIEVE SO, YES.

# 419 Q:

DID YOU TRY TO CLIMB THOSE FENCES?

# 420 A:

NO, I DIDN'T.

# 421 Q:

THEY ARE ABOUT TWO FEET HIGH?

# 422 (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.)

# 423 Q:

IS THAT CORRECT?

# 424 A:

ONE OF THEM IS ON ONE SIDE BECAUSE THERE IS A WALL ON ONE SIDE OF IT. I THINK IT IS A REGULAR CYCLONE CHAINLINK FENCE.

# 425 Q:

IT WOULDN'T BE AN IRON GRATED TYPE APPARATUS THAT YOU COULD SIMPLY STEP ON AND WALK OVER, WOULD IT?

# 426 A:

I DON'T RECALL THAT, NO.

# 427 Q:

DID YOU TAKE ANY PHOTOGRAPHS OF THAT?

# 428 A:

I DON'T BELIEVE ANY WERE TAKEN BACK THERE, NO.

# 429 Q:

DID YOU EXAMINE THAT AREA -- I GUESS YOU DIDN'T EXAMINE IT CAREFULLY YOURSELF. DID YOU ASK ANYONE TO EXAMINE THAT AREA?

# 430 A:

I BELIEVE THE AREA WAS EXAMINED BY -- WITH A METAL DETECTOR, YES.

# 431 Q:

DID ANYBODY ATTEMPT TO SEE HOW EASY OR DIFFICULT IT COULD BE TO WALK OVER THAT FENCE?

# 432 A:

I NEVER DIRECTED THAT, NO.

# 433 Q:

BUT THAT WOULD BE A WAY ALSO FOR SOMEBODY TO AVOID DETECTION IF THEY DIDN'T WANT TO BE SEEN BY ANYBODY AT THE FRONT; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 434 A:

CERTAINLY, YES.

# 435 Q:

NOW, WHEN -- REGARDING THE ACTIVITIES OF MR. SIMPSON, WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THE FOLLOWING: THAT WHEN HE WAS CALLED IN CHICAGO HE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO GO ANY PLACE IN THE WORLD?

# 436 MR. DARDEN:

OBJECTION, CALLS FOR SPECULATION.

# 437 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED.

# 438 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: WERE THERE ANY RESTRICTIONS ON MR. SIMPSON'S TRAVEL WHEN HE WAS CALLED IN CHICAGO, BY YOU OR ANYONE FROM THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT?

# 439 A:

NONE TO MY KNOWLEDGE.

# 440 Q:

WOULD YOU AGREE THAT HE VOLUNTARILY RETURNED TO LOS ANGELES?

# 441 A:

YES.

# 442 Q:

WOULD YOU AGREE THAT HE VOLUNTARILY ACCOMPANIED YOU TO THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT?

# 443 A:

YES.

# 444 Q:

WOULD YOU AGREE THAT HE VOLUNTARILY ALLOWED YOU TO SEARCH A BAG THAT HE HAD?

# 445 A:

YES.

# 446 Q:

WOULD YOU AGREE THAT HE VOLUNTARILY GAVE YOU A -- TALKED WITH YOU IN THE CAR ON THE WAY TO THE STATION?

# 447 A:

YEAH. HE VOLUNTARILY TALKED, YES.

# 448 Q:

WOULD YOU AGREE THAT HE VOLUNTARILY SPOKE WITH YOU IN A TAPE-RECORDED INTERVIEW WITHOUT THE PRESENCE OF COUNSEL?

# 449 A:

YES.

# 450 Q:

WOULD YOU AGREE THAT HE ASKED TO HAVE A BLOOD SAMPLE TAKEN FROM HIM?

# 451 A:

I ASKED IF I COULD TAKE A BLOOD SAMPLE.

# 452 Q:

DID HE VOLUNTARILY AGREE?

# 453 A:

YES.

# 454 Q:

YOU DON'T RECALL HIM SAYING "WHY DON'T YOU TAKE MY BLOOD" AND TEST HIM?

# 455 A:

NO. I ASKED HIM FOR THE BLOOD.

# 456 Q:

DID YOU MAKE ANY NOTES OF THAT?

# 457 A:

NO.

# 458 Q:

DID YOU RECORD THAT?

# 459 A:

RECORD WHAT?

# 460 MR. DARDEN:

OBJECTION AT THIS TIME, YOUR HONOR.

# 461 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: THE CONVERSATION.

# 462 MR. DARDEN:

THE CONTENT OF ANY --

# 463 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT.

# 464 MR. SHAPIRO:

I'M JUST ASKING ABOUT THE BLOOD.

# 465 THE COURT:

I UNDERSTAND.

# 466 DET. PHILIP VANNATTER:

I THINK -- I THINK THE --

# 467 THE COURT:

OVERRULED. THANK YOU. PROCEED.

# 468 DET. PHILIP VANNATTER:

I THINK WHAT YOU ARE ASKING, THERE WAS A CONVERSATION. I ASKED HIM AND HE SAID "WHY DON'T YOU TAKE IT" TYPE THING. I THINK THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE ASKING.

# 469 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: OKAY. DIDN'T HE VOLUNTARILY ALLOW YOU TO EXAMINE HIS FINGER?

# 470 A:

YES, HE DID.

# 471 Q:

AND HE VOLUNTARILY ALLOWED YOU TO PHOTOGRAPH HIS FINGER?

# 472 A:

YES, THAT'S CORRECT.

# 473 Q:

AND HE VOLUNTARILY ALLOWED YOU TO PHOTOGRAPH HIS BODY?

# 474 A:

I DIDN'T PHOTOGRAPH HIS BODY.

# 475 Q:

DID YOU ASK PERMISSION TO?

# 476 A:

NO.

# 477 Q:

DID HE ASK YOU TO?

# 478 A:

NO.

# 479 Q:

ARE YOU SURE?

# 480 A:

POSITIVE.

# 481 Q:

IS THERE ANY REASON WHY YOU DIDN'T ASK TO PHOTOGRAPH HIS BODY TO SEE IF HE HAD ANY BRUISES?

# 482 A:

HE WAS IN A SHORT-SLEEVE SHIRT. I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING ON HIS ARMS OR ANYTHING. THE ONLY THING I SAW WAS HIS LEFT HAND THAT WAS INJURED.

# 483 Q:

YOU HAD CONCLUDED AT THAT POINT IN TIME THAT RONALD GOLDMAN HAD BEEN IN A VIOLENT STRUGGLE FOR HIS LIFE, HAD YOU NOT?

# 484 A:

YEAH. A DEFENSIVE VIOLENT STRUGGLE AND DEFENSIVE AND OFFENSIVE ARE REALLY TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

# 485 Q:

SO YOU WOULDN'T BE CONCERNED WITH LOOKING AT AN INDIVIDUAL WHO MAY BE A SUSPECT TO DETERMINE WHETHER THEY HAD ANY INJURIES ON THEIR BODY?

# 486 A:

I SAW INJURIES ON HIM ON HIS HAND.

# 487 Q:

WHAT ABOUT ON HIS CHEST? WOULD YOU BE INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT THAT?

# 488 A:

I DIDN'T ASK HIM TO DO THAT, NO.

# 489 Q:

MY QUESTION WAS WOULD YOU BE INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT THAT?

# 490 A:

IF HE HAD BEEN PLACED UNDER ARREST AT THAT POINT I WOULD HAVE LOOKED AT IT. HE WAS NOT UNDER ARREST. I NEVER ASKED TO HIM LOOK AT IT.

# 491 Q:

WELL, HE WAS AS COOPERATIVE AS ANYBODY COULD BE, WASN'T HE?

# 492 A:

IF BEING TRUTHFUL IS BEING COOPERATIVE, THEN THAT IS VERY SUBJECTIVE. I'M NOT SURE THAT HIS DEMEANOR WAS COOPERATIVE, BUT I DON'T BELIEVE THE INFORMATION WAS TRUTHFUL.

KEY QUOTE

# 493 Q:

DID HE DO EVERYTHING YOU ASKED OF HIM?

# 494 A:

YES.

# 495 Q:

WELL, IS THERE ANY REASON WHY YOU WOULDN'T ASK HIM IF YOU COULD EXAMINE HIS BODY AND PHOTOGRAPH IT?

# 496 A:

I DIDN'T DO THAT.

# 497 Q:

IS THERE ANY REASON WHY YOU DIDN'T?

# 498 A:

I JUST DIDN'T DO IT.

# 499 Q:

WELL, I KNOW YOU DIDN'T, BUT IS THERE A REASON WHY YOU DIDN'T?

# 500 A:

I JUST DIDN'T DO IT, SIR. I DIDN'T ASK HIM. I JUST DIDN'T DO IT.

KEY QUOTE

# 501 Q:

DID YOU FORGET? DID YOU THINK IT WASN'T IMPORTANT? IT WAS SOMETHING THAT HAD NO VALUE AT ALL TO YOU AS AN INVESTIGATOR?

# 502 MR. DARDEN:

OBJECTION, ARGUMENTATIVE.

# 503 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 504 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

# 505 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: ISN'T IT TRUE, SIR, THAT WHEN HE ASKED ABOUT MR. SIMPSON'S BLOOD HE GAVE YOU THE FOLLOWING RESPONSE --

# 506 MR. DARDEN:

OBJECTION. OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.

# 507 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED. COUNSEL, YOU NEED TO SHARE THAT WITH OPPOSING COUNSEL.

# 508 MR. DARDEN:

BEFORE WE DO THAT, MAY WE APPROACH, YOUR HONOR?

# 509 MR. SHAPIRO:

I WILL SHARE IT WITH HIM RIGHT NOW.

# 510 MR. DARDEN:

MAY WE APPROACH, YOUR HONOR?

Temperature

devastating

Key Quotes (5)

Robert Shapiro (Examiner)

WHERE IN DETECTIVE FUHRMAN'S NOTES IS IT SHOWN THAT A GLOVE WAS FOUND IN ROCKINGHAM? ... IT IS NOT, SIR.

Vannatter concedes that the Rockingham glove — the central physical evidence — appears in none of the four detectives' notes and not in the chronological record, a devastating blow to the chain of custody.

Philip Vannatter (Witness)

I FIND -- I FOUND OUT LATER THAT THAT INFORMATION WAS INCORRECT. THAT WAS BASED ON ARNELLE SIMPSON'S RESPONSE THAT MORNING, AS WELL AS KATO KAELIN TELLING ME THAT HE HAD RECEIVED A PHONE CALL AFTER SIMPSON HAD LEFT THE RESIDENCE TELLING HIM TO ALARM THE HOUSE, THAT HE WAS GOING TO CHICAGO ON A BUSINESS TRIP FOR HERTZ.

Vannatter admits the 'unexpected trip' language in the sworn search warrant affidavit was false, undermining the legal basis for the search.

Philip Vannatter (Witness)

THAT IS TRUE. I MISSTATED THAT I GUESS BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE. I BELIEVED IT WAS HUMAN BLOOD AND I THINK NOW -- I THINK STILL IT IS HUMAN BLOOD.

Vannatter concedes the search warrant falsely stated blood was 'confirmed human' when only a presumptive test had been done — a second material misstatement in the sworn affidavit.

Philip Vannatter (Witness)

I JUST DIDN'T DO IT, SIR. I DIDN'T ASK HIM. I JUST DIDN'T DO IT.

Repeated three times under pressure, Vannatter cannot articulate any reason for failing to photograph or examine Simpson's body for injuries despite believing Goldman had fought his attacker.

Philip Vannatter (Witness)

IF BEING TRUTHFUL IS BEING COOPERATIVE, THEN THAT IS VERY SUBJECTIVE. I'M NOT SURE THAT HIS DEMEANOR WAS COOPERATIVE, BUT I DON'T BELIEVE THE INFORMATION WAS TRUTHFUL.

Shapiro has just catalogued six or more instances of Simpson's voluntary cooperation; Vannatter's rebuttal reveals his pre-formed view of Simpson's guilt while conceding every factual point.

Evidence (6)

People's 66

Diagram/map of the Rockingham estate, previously authenticated by Vannatter

Used to trace blood trail, glove location, alternative entry points, and fencing; sticky arrows placed by witness and inadvertently by Shapiro

Informal

Search warrant affidavit signed by Vannatter under penalty of perjury, prepared starting ~7:45 a.m., signed by magistrate at 10:45 a.m.

Challenged — two material inaccuracies exposed: 'unexpected trip' language and premature claim blood was confirmed human

Informal

Transcript of Vannatter's prior-day testimony (pages 19556, lines 1–22), displayed on ELMO

Used to impeach — Vannatter had said he saw the Bronco door blood smears 'at a later time,' contradicting his morning testimony

Informal

Blood spot above Bronco door handle tested by criminalist Fung with phenolphthalein (presumptive test)

Challenged — Shapiro implies the test destroyed the sample for DNA analysis; Vannatter says he did not realize that

Informal

Criminalist's notes documenting recovery of Rockingham glove, taken at Vannatter's direction

Cited as the only record of the glove's discovery — no detective notes, no chronological record entry

Informal

Blood droplet trail from Rockingham gate to front door

Discussed in context of alternative entry routes; Vannatter confirms no blood found anywhere else on property