F. Lee Bailey cross-examines Detective Fuhrman about his alleged meetings with Kathleen Bell and Andrea Terry at a Marine recruiting station and Hennessey's Tavern in the mid-1980s, where Bell claimed Fuhrman made racist remarks. Fuhrman flatly denies ever meeting Bell or Terry, but Bailey methodically erodes his certainty — drawing a pointed comparison between the quality of Fuhrman's denial of knowing Bell and his confidence in having found the glove on Simpson's property. By the end, Fuhrman concedes he 'cannot be sure' whether a woman he glimpsed at the recruiting station was Bell.
# 1 (DEFT'S 1053 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH) # 2 THE COURT: IS THAT A CUSTOM IN FLORIDA?
# 3 MR. BAILEY: PARDON ME, YOUR HONOR?
# 4 THE COURT: NEVER MIND. PROCEED. DEPUTY JEX, YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO SHOOT THEM WHEN THEY DO THAT.
# 7 MR. BAILEY: IF I MAY SAY SO, YOUR HONOR, THE CONFIGURATION IS ONE THAT I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH. SO IF I HAVE STEPPED IN THE WRONG AREA, I AM WELL ADVISED.
# 8 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. PROCEED.
# 9 MR. BAILEY: ALL RIGHT. MAY I EXHIBIT THE PHOTO?
# 11 MR. BAILEY: WOULD YOU PUT IT UP, PLEASE?
# 12 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, FOR THE RECORD, IS THIS THE SAME PHOTOGRAPH THAT I SHOWED YOU A MOMENT AGO AT THE WITNESS STAND?
# 14 Q: ALL RIGHT. AND DO YOU HAVE NO RECOLLECTION OF JOE FAUS BEING IN YOUR COMPANY AND HERS IN THE RECRUITING STATION IN 1986 OR THEREABOUTS?
# 16 Q: OR AT ANY TIME IN YOUR LIFE?
# 18 Q: ALL RIGHT. SO THAT IF HE WERE TO SAY THAT HE DID IN FACT INTRODUCE THE TWO OF YOU, YOU SAY THAT CAN'T BE TRUE, TRUE?
# 19 A: IF HE SAID THAT, I DO NOT RECALL EVER MEETING THIS WOMAN IN THE RECRUITING STATION OR ANYWHERE ELSE.
# 20 Q: ALL RIGHT. WELL, I'M TRYING TO GET THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN A LACK OF RECOLLECTION, A FADED MEMORY AND AN ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY THAT YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN THIS WOMAN BEFORE UNTIL YOU SAW HER ON TELEVISION. WHICH IS IT?
# 21 A: I DO NOT RECOGNIZE THIS WOMAN AS ANYBODY I HAVE EVER MET.
# 22 Q: ALL RIGHT. YOU TESTIFIED ON DIRECT EXAMINATION THAT NOT ONLY DID YOU NOT KNOW THIS WOMAN AND HAD NEVER MET HER, BUT YOU HAD NEVER SAID THE THINGS THAT WERE DISPLAYED ON THE ELMO IN HER LETTER, TRUE?
# 24 Q: ALL RIGHT. AND IS IT FAIR TO SAY THERE CAN BE NO MISTAKE IN YOUR MIND ABOUT YOUR TESTIMONY IN THIS PARTICULAR?
# 26 Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, DO YOU KNOW A WOMAN NAMED ANDREA TERRY?
# 28 Q: DID YOU EVER MEET A WOMAN STANDING SIX FEET ONE INCH NAMED ANDREA TERRY IN A BAR DOWN THERE WHERE YOU LIVE?
# 30 Q: IS THERE A BAR DOWN IN THAT AREA THAT YOU FREQUENT?
# 31 A: NO LONGER, BUT YES, THERE IS.
# 34 Q: WHAT WAS THE NAME OF IT?
# 35 A: HENNESSEY'S TAVERN.
# 36 Q: HENNESSEY'S TAVERN. NOW, ASK YOU WHETHER OR NOT ON AN OCCASION IN THE MIDDLE 80'S RELATED IN TIME TO YOUR GOING TO THE MARINE RECRUITING STATION FOR WHATEVER PURPOSE YOU MET WITH A WOMAN NAMED ANDREA TERRY AND KATHLEEN BELL, AN INDEPENDENT SECOND OCCASION.
# 38 Q: HAVE YOU BEEN SHOWN ANY PHOTOGRAPHS OF ANDREA TERRY BY ANYONE?
# 40 Q: DID YOU SPEND A LITTLE TIME DISCUSSING HER WITH THE PROSECUTION THIS WEEKEND?
# 41 A: IT WAS MENTIONED, BUT I SAID I DON'T KNOW THIS WOMAN.
# 42 Q: TELL ME ABOUT THE MENTION. WHERE WERE YOU AND WHO WERE YOU TALKING WITH?
# 43 A: IT WAS JUST ASKED -- EXCUSE ME? ON THE --
# 44 Q: WHERE WERE YOU AND WHO WERE YOU TALKING WITH WHEN THE SUBJECT CAME UP?
# 45 A: IN THIS BUILDING.
# 46 Q: TALKING TO MISS CLARK OR ONE OF HER ASSOCIATES?
# 48 Q: WAS THIS BEFORE OR AFTER YOU WENT AND FOUND OUT ABOUT THE STANDARD EQUIPMENT FOR THE BRONCO?
# 49 A: NO. THAT WAS AT MY RESIDENCE.
# 50 Q: OKAY. DID YOU DO THAT ON YOUR OWN OR DID SOMEONE ASK YOU TO DO IT?
# 51 A: NO. SOMEONE THAT KNEW SOMEBODY CALLED ME AND SAID THAT'S WHAT THAT BAG IS.
# 52 Q: BUT A LOT OF PHONE CALLS CAME IN ABOUT THAT, DIDN'T IT?
# 53 A: NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE. ONE.
# 54 Q: OH, OKAY. IN ANY EVENT, WERE YOU ASKED WHETHER OR NOT A WOMAN NAMED ANDREA TERRY HAD EVER MET YOU IN HENNESSEY'S TAVERN WITH OR WITHOUT KATHLEEN BELL?
# 55 A: I NEVER HEARD THE LAST NAME, BUT THE FIRST NAME I DID HEAR.
# 56 Q: OKAY. DOES THE FIRST NAME MEAN ANYTHING TO YOU?
# 58 Q: ARE YOU AS SATISFIED THAT YOU DID NOT MEET KATHLEEN BELL WITH ANOTHER WOMAN IN HENNESSEY'S AS YOU ARE THAT YOU DID NOT MEET KATHLEEN BELL IN THE RECRUITING STATION?
# 60 Q: SO THAT IF ANDREA TERRY WERE TO TESTIFY THAT SHE WAS WITH YOU IN HENNESSEY'S TAVERN IN 1986 WITH KATHLEEN BELL AND HEARD REMARKS SUCH AS THE ONE WE'VE SEEN, YOU WOULD SAY THAT IS A FABRICATION, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?
KEY QUOTE # 61 A: I DON'T KNOW WHY SHE'D DO IT, BUT YES, I WOULD.
# 62 Q: NO QUESTION ABOUT IT?
# 63 A: NO QUESTION ABOUT IT.
# 64 Q: HAVE YOU EVER DONE ANYTHING TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE TO HURT OR OTHERWISE OFFEND ANYONE IN THE BELL FAMILY, ASSUMING THAT THERE IS ONE?
# 65 A: I HAVE NO IDEA, SIR.
# 66 Q: EVER HAD ANY CONTACT WITH ANY RELATIVE OR POSSIBLE RELATIVE OF KATHLEEN BELL IN YOUR CAPACITY AS A POLICEMAN?
# 67 A: I WOULD HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING THAT. THE NAME IS -- BELL DOES NOT RING A --
# 68 Q: THE NAME BELL DOESN'T RING A BELL. IS THAT WHAT YOU WERE TRYING TO SAY?
# 70 Q: OKAY. AND WHAT DOES THE NAME TERRY RING OR ANDREA?
# 72 Q: OKAY. SO UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES, THE STATEMENT OF MR. FAUS THAT HE MADE ONE INTRODUCTION OF MISS TERRY, THAT SHE WAS IN A MEETING WITH THE TWO OF YOU OR AN ENCOUNTER WOULD BOTH BE INCORRECT; IS THAT RIGHT?
# 73 A: WHAT WAS THE LAST OF THAT QUESTION, SIR?
# 74 Q: LET ME BREAK THEM UP. WE'VE ALREADY HEARD FROM YOU THAT MR. FAUS WOULD BE SERIOUSLY IN ERROR IF HE SAID HE INTRODUCED YOU TO THE WOMAN WHOSE PICTURE IS ON THE ELMO.
# 76 Q: IT NEVER HAPPENED, TRUE?
# 77 A: KATHLEEN BELL? NO.
# 78 Q: OKAY. AND YOU NEVER MET HER IN HENNESSEY'S TAVERN?
# 80 Q: ON ANY OCCASION OR UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES OR WITH ANY OTHER PERSON?
# 82 Q: AND YOU HAVE NO IMAGE IN MIND OF A TALL ATTRACTIVE WOMAN NAMED ANDREA WITH WHOM YOU TALKED IN HENNESSEY'S TAVERN IN 1986?
# 86 Q: NOW, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, ARE YOU AS SATISFIED WITH THE QUALITY OF THE TRUTH OF YOUR DENIAL OF KNOWING KATHLEEN BELL AS YOU ARE OF YOUR CLAIM THAT YOU FOUND THE RIGHT-HANDED GLOVE ON MR. SIMPSON'S PROPERTY? IS THE QUALITY OF THE TRUTH OF THOSE TWO STATEMENTS THE SAME OR IS ONE STRONGER THAN THE OTHER, IF YOU KNOW?
# 87 A: I DON'T UNDERSTAND ANY OF THAT.
# 88 Q: YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT QUESTION?
# 90 Q: ARE YOU AS CERTAIN THAT YOU'VE NEVER MET KATHLEEN BELL ON ANY OCCASION AS YOU ARE THAT YOU IN FACT FOUND THE RIGHT-HAND LEATHER GLOVE WE'VE BEEN DISCUSSING ON MR. SIMPSON'S PROPERTY?
KEY QUOTE # 91 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. THAT MISSTATES THE TESTIMONY. THE TESTIMONY WAS, HE HAD NO MEMORY AS WITH RESPECT TO KATHLEEN BELL, NOT --
# 92 THE COURT: MISS CLARK, I CAN BARELY HEAR YOU. IS THAT --
# 93 MS. CLARK: I DON'T WANT TO --
# 94 THE COURT: OBJECTION, WHAT?
# 95 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. MISSTATES THE TESTIMONY.
# 96 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. OVERRULED ON THAT GROUND. PROCEED.
# 97 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. VAGUE.
# 98 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
# 99 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: CAN YOU TELL US WHY YOU WERE AT THE RECRUITING STATION AND ON WHAT DAY?
# 100 A: ON WHAT DAY I CAN NOT.
# 101 Q: HOW MANY OCCASIONS?
# 103 Q: AND WHAT WAS YOUR PURPOSE IN GOING THERE?
# 104 A: I ASKED SERGEANT FAUS IF THERE WAS ANY GOOD RESERVE UNITS THAT WERE -- IF THEY HAD ANY OPENINGS.
# 105 Q: AND HOW MANY TIMES DID YOU DO THAT?
# 106 A: WELL, I FOUND THAT THERE WASN'T REALLY ANY MOVEMENT IN THE RESERVE UNITS AT THAT TIME, BUT I ENJOYED TALKING TO SERGEANT FAUS. SO I RETURNED FOR A FEW OTHER TIMES.
# 107 Q: DID YOU MEET ANYONE ELSE WHILE YOU WERE THERE?
# 108 A: A MR. RORE OR SERGEANT RORE.
# 109 Q: SERGEANT RORE. RON RORE?
# 110 A: I BELIEVE. I DON'T REMEMBER HIS FIRST NAME.
# 111 Q: AND HOW MANY TIMES DID YOU MEET HIM?
# 112 A: I THINK HE WAS THERE EVERY TIME.
# 113 Q: AND DID YOU TALK WITH HIM ABOUT POSSIBLY ENROLLING IN A RESERVE UNIT?
# 114 A: NO. I THINK HE MIGHT HAVE OVERHEARD MY PURPOSE, BUT THAT WAS DROPPED FAIRLY QUICKLY.
# 115 Q: FAUS WAS THE MAIN SOURCE OF INFORMATION?
# 117 Q: AND HOW MANY TIMES DID YOU SEE SERGEANT RORE?
# 118 A: A COUPLE OF TIMES.
# 119 Q: DID YOU SEE A MARINE WHILE YOU WERE THERE ON ANY OF THESE OCCASIONS NAMED MAX CORDOVA?
# 120 A: I BELIEVE I SAW A MARINE THAT I LATER FOUND OUT WAS HIM. I DIDN'T REMEMBER HIS NAME.
# 121 Q: DID YOU SPEAK TO HIM AT ALL?
# 122 A: I REMEMBER HIM KIND OF IN THE BACKGROUND OF THE RECRUITING OFFICE DOING -- DOING SOME TASKS.
# 123 Q: DO YOU REMEMBER AN OCCASION WHEN HE POINTED OUT TO YOU SERGEANT RORE WHO WAS THEN COMING ACROSS THE STREET?
# 124 A: I DON'T REMEMBER THAT, NO.
# 125 Q: HAVE NO RECOLLECTION OF SUCH AN EVENT?
# 127 Q: HOW LONG WERE YOU IN THE COMPANY OF MAX CORDOVA? DO YOU KNOW HIS RANK BY THE WAY?
# 129 Q: OKAY. PFC, CORPORAL, SERGEANT?
# 130 A: I DON'T KNOW, SIR.
# 131 Q: WAS HE IN UNIFORM?
# 132 A: I BELIEVE SO, YES.
# 133 Q: WERE ALL OF THESE PEOPLE IN UNIFORM WHENEVER YOU SAW THEM ON THE THREE OCCASIONS THAT YOU WENT TO THE STATION?
# 135 Q: AND HOW LONG WOULD YOU STAY ON THE FIRST, SECOND AND THIRD OCCASIONS, IF YOU CAN TELL US INDIVIDUALLY?
# 136 A: LONG ENOUGH TO HAVE A CUP OF COFFEE. 15, 20 MINUTES.
# 137 Q: DID YOU EVER HAVE ANY CONVERSATION WITH ANY OF THESE THREE MEN OUTSIDE THE STATION?
# 138 A: I THINK ONE TIME, JOE FAUS WANTED TO LOOK AT MY CAR, MY TRUCK, AND WE WALKED OUT --
# 139 Q: OKAY. DID YOU TAKE HIM OUT TO LOOK AT IT?
# 140 A: I THINK I WAS LEAVING AT THAT TIME AND WE WENT OUT.
# 141 Q: AND DID YOU MEET ANY OTHER PEOPLE OUT IN THE PARKING LOT THAT YOU CAN REMEMBER?
# 143 Q: ALL RIGHT. DID YOU KNOW WHEN YOU WERE THERE IN 1986 THAT KATHLEEN BELL WORKED UPSTAIRS DIRECTLY OVER THE RECRUITING STATION IN A REAL ESTATE OFFICE?
# 144 A: I WAS TOLD THAT A FEMALE THAT CAME IN THERE AT ONE TIME WORKED IN THE CENTURY 21.
# 145 Q: UH-HUH. BUT THAT FEMALE YOU SAW -- DID YOU SEE A FEMALE?
# 146 A: YES, I SAW A FEMALE COME IN THERE AT ONE TIME.
# 147 Q: AND THAT WAS SOMEONE OTHER THAN MISS BELL?
# 148 A: I DON'T KNOW. I PAID -- I DIDN'T PAY MUCH ATTENTION TO WHOEVER CAME IN THERE.
# 149 Q: ARE YOU NOW SAYING, SIR, THAT IF YOU'VE EVER SEEN KATHLEEN BELL, THAT YOU DIDN'T RECOGNIZE HER, BUT SHE MAY HAVE WALKED THROUGH THAT PLACE WITHOUT YOUR KNOWLEDGE? IS THAT YOUR PRESENT POSTURE?
# 150 A: WELL, SHE COULD HAVE.
# 152 A: SHE COULD HAVE WALKED IN.
# 153 Q: DESCRIBE THE WOMAN YOU DID SEE.
# 155 Q: BLOND? BRUNETTE? REDHEAD?
# 156 A: I COULDN'T, SIR.
# 157 Q: TALL? SHORT? STOUT? SLIM?
# 158 A: I PAID ALMOST NO ATTENTION. I SAW A FEMALE WALK IN LIKE SHE KNEW PEOPLE IN THE OFFICE AND I CONTINUED MY CONVERSATION WITH MR. FAUS.
# 159 Q: WELL, WITHOUT THAT INFORMATION, HOW DID YOU KNOW IT WAS A FEMALE?
# 160 A: WELL, I COULD TELL IT WAS A FEMALE, SIR. BUT I DIDN'T PAY ANY --
# 161 Q: YOU LOOKED AT LEAST THAT CLOSE?
# 162 A: WELL, I COULD TELL SHE WAS A FEMALE.
# 165 Q: AND YOU COULD TELL THAT MISS BELL WAS A FEMALE, CAN'T YOU?
# 167 Q: FROM SEEING HER ON LARRY KING. ARE YOU QUITE SURE THAT THEY ARE NOT ONE AND THE SAME, THE FEMALE YOU SAW AND THE WOMAN ON THE ELMO?
# 169 Q: YEAH. ARE YOU SURE?
# 172 A: I JUST DO NOT KNOW MISS BELL.
# 173 Q: SO YOU MAY HAVE SEEN MISS BELL AND YOU'RE NOW UNABLE TO RECOLLECT THAT; IS THAT SO?
# 174 A: NO. I DIDN'T PAY ANY ATTENTION TO THE FEMALE THAT CAME INTO THE RECRUITING OFFICE.
# 175 Q: PLEASE LISTEN TO THE QUESTION. YOU MAY HAVE BEEN IN THE SAME ROOM WITH MISS BELL, BUT YOU DON'T NOW RECOGNIZE HER. IS THAT THE WAY YOU WANT TO LEAVE IT?
# 176 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. ARGUMENTATIVE.
# 177 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
# 178 MR. BAILEY: A GOOD BREAK TIME, YOUR HONOR?