All right. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Please be seated. The record should reflect the jury has withdrawn from the courtroom. Counsel, have we resolved the manner in which the photographs of the hair and fiber evidence were shared with the Defense?
Do we have that receipt back? We had furnished counsel with a copy of the receipt signed that indicated the photographs had been turned over to Myron Scholberg--
That's where the photographs went. Mr. Longetti was special master assigned to help with the transfer of things to the Defense expert, and this receipt shows that he signed for them, pick up--picked them up on September 27th, 1994; and they were all given by Mr. Deedrick to him with directions to furnish them to Mr. Scholberg. And that was back in September. So they have them somewhere.
Well, this receipt says that Mr. Longetti got them. I don't know whether Mr. Scholberg got them just to look at them briefly or whether he was provided--
Well, let's have Mr. Deedrick come on in. He was the one that directed all of this if I recollect correctly.
Just to save some time, your Honor, I called Mr. Longetti's office. There's no answer. I called Mr. Sholberg's home. There's no answer. I asked the gentleman from the FBI. He said he just gave them to Longetti and he didn't get them back from Longetti, but he doesn't know what Longetti did with them, if anything.
The issue is what was the direction that Mr. Deedrick gave to Mr. Longetti with regards to the photographs.
Your Honor, none of this resolves the fact we haven't seen these boards, not until just now. We haven't seen them yet.
Well, they raised the discovery issue. So I'm saying discovery was given, and Mr. Deedrick can probably answer that question for us since he's right here now. But after he does that, we can just--I would like to show counsel all the boards. We have a lot to show them.
Mr. Deedrick, what, if any instructions did you give to Mr. Longetti when you gave him the photographs that are indicated in the receipt dated September 27th, 1994?
I was told to turn over photographs and original notes plus the evidence for examination by the expert.
Was anything ever--after you gave these things to Mr. Longetti for the purpose of furnishing them to Mr. Scholberg, the Defense expert, did you get anything back from Mr. Longetti?
All right. This first board is entitled "Black head hairs, 16 different individuals."
Your Honor, just one question. I don't know if the People are representing that we also received these pictures in advance or copies of these pictures?
These are--no, I'm not representing that. These are taken from the FBI atlas. They are not evidence in this case.
They're a demonstration of 16 different types of black head hair, is that what this is?
Your Honor, we object to this kind of demonstration without some showing that these 16 people are somehow representative of the black population as a whole or some data can be given as to what distribution these people are or where they came from.
This is just to demonstrate ranges of characteristics. It's not meant to be dispositive or it's not meant to represent all possible hairs that might exist or what they all might look like in the entire world.
All right. When we say black head, are we referring to persons with black hair or African American hair or what?
And it's just demonstrative for Mr. Deedrick to be able to explain to the jury the different kinds of appearances of hairs that he sees under the microscope. We have one for Caucasian hairs as well.
Your Honor, for the record, I object to these on the same grounds as the implication here from both of these exhibits is that there's some well-defined way to break hair down in categories as referenced by this board when in reality, there may be many kinds of hair similar to the one in the top left, but slightly different, that difference examiners would see differently, and I would object on that basis.
That's what cross-examination is for. The witness is not going to represent that there's no other kinds of hairs in the world but these. He is going to say this is a sampling showing how they look different under the microscope. That's all it is.
No. You're getting--no. Mr. Blasier is handling this, so I assume he's handling the witness.
This shows the photographs of Nicole's exemplars as seen under a microscope and where he found matches in the questioned evidence. Not all of them, just some as a representative sample.
Are we confident in our terminology "Match"? Is that something that's in the nomenclature for hair comparison?
Well, excuse me, counsel. We're going to get one counsel on this. Mr. Bailey, do you want to handle this or Mr. Blasier?
Yes, I am handling it, your Honor. And I'm asking the word "Match" not be used. The most the hair technician can--
Why don't we inquire of the witness whether the term "Match" is appropriate or not. He's the expert.
Well, we'll get to that. We're looking at the boards first. This is a comparison of hairs. I take it the top row is Nicole Brown Simpson exemplar hairs and the bottom row are hairs from various places associated with the crime scene, correct?
All right. Next board. All right. This board is entitled, "Known head hairs from Ronald Goldman," four photographs, two photographs to the right head hair from Goldman's shirt. Any objection to this?
Yeah. All right. This is entitled, "Elimination head hair samples," and appears to have 16 photographs of hair which is--each one of which has a name which appears to represent one of the many witnesses who have testified with regard to this case.
Yes, your Honor. As the Court will recall, Miss Brockbank testified to the collection of exemplars of various police and lab personnel who were then--whose hair was then microscopically compared by Mr. Deedrick, again, certain questioned hairs in the evidence, and this board was prepared to demonstrate the differences in their hair and why they did or did not match the hairs.
In addition to the running objection to the fact we were not shown these the night before the witness was called, the prior witness has testified in order to fairly compare head samples, they have to be taken from different parts of the head. We do not believe there were sufficient samples taken here until the evidence shows to the contrary.
Except we have a stipulation to that effect. We have a stipulation to the effect that the exemplars were taken from the police and lab personnel in a forensically appropriate manner.
I know that the hair samples were of course furnished to the Defense, the samples themselves.
I don't believe, your Honor, that these had been collected by the time we were furnished photographs.
These are the known head hairs taken from the exemplar for the Defendant and the photographs that depict the questioned hairs recovered from the evidence at the crime scenes which match those hairs in the opinion of our expert, Mr. Deedrick.
I don't think we're going to get to the testimony concerning those last couple of boards until tomorrow.
Well, let's see where we are. Let's see the next one. How many of these do you have, Miss Clark?
This is another board, same thing, Defendant's head hairs from the known sample and then photographs from the crime scene evidence, photographs of hairs recovered from the crime scene, evidence which I believe Mr. Deedrick will testify are matched.
The interesting one being also Q23, the hair from Goldman's shirt, and I can't see Q47.
This board compares the known cotton fibers from Ronald Goldman's shirt to questioned cotton fibers recovered to items of evidence at the crime scene, one from the Rockingham glove--excuse me--two from the Rockingham glove and then one of the photographs depict the--from the Bundy glove and two of the photographs from the knit hat.
Okay. This is fibers that are from the knit hat found at the crime scene, your Honor, the blue knit cap, and the known is K47. These were exemplars I believe removed by Mr. Deedrick himself from the cap, and those are compared to questioned fibers from Mr. Goldman's shirt in the lower two. On this other side, K17 is a known fiber from Nicole Brown's dress and that's compared to fiber found on Mr. Goldman's shirt in Q23.
This is the board concerning the match of Bronco carpet fibers. On the upper row, we have known samples, K14, 9. We have two for K14 and one for K9. K9 shows the scanning electronmicroscope photograph of the fiber. The other two I believe are microscopic photographs. They're compared to fibers found on the Rockingham glove and on the knit cap.
Can you make the representation as to whether they were ever given to the Defense? I thought I'd been through everything, hair and trace. I haven't seen them.
That's correct. The bluish black cotton fiber, your Honor, there is no known exemplar for. However, Mr. Deedrick found bluish black cotton fibers on the Rockingham glove, on Mr. Goldman's shirt and on the Defendant's socks, which all match each other, which is indicative of what was worn on the night of the murder.
This is a comparison--this is a--one of the bluish black cotton fibers that we indicated was found on Ron Goldman's shirt. The upper one was found to be wrapped around the bloody hair that matched those of Nicole Brown. The lower one is another fiber found on Ron Goldman's shirt. Again, the blue black cotton fiber. To the left of that, those two photographs, as you face the board is a fiber, a blue cotton fiber from Ron Goldman's jeans for the purpose of demonstrating some of the differences that can be seen in fibers and in their color. So the two on the right-hand side are a match to each other and the single photograph to the left of that is there for comparison purposes.
The wrapping around of the fiber around her hair? The--that during the murder, the Defendant was wearing fabric of this kind of fiber, the blue black cotton fiber, and that in the course of stabbing, got some of her hair or in the course of grabbing her by the hair back, in the course of the stabbing, got one of her hairs on his clothing, which, when he went back to Ron Goldman, transferred to Ron Goldman's shirt.
KEY QUOTEThat's an awfully tight wrap around of a small fiber around a hair is the point I'm making.
KEY QUOTESame as before, your Honor. I don't think there's an adequate foundation. After Mr. Deedrick testifies, perhaps they can lay a foundation. But I don't see one yet.
The foundational deficiency that counsel is referring to is the lack of a known standard?
This is head hairs from Ronald Goldman. All right. Mr. Bailey, any objection to this?
On this board, we have the known samples in the upper row. Again, the first three as you face it from the left to the right, being from Kato, and the last one from Chachi on the upper row. And on the bottom row, we have questioned samples taken off the glove found at Bundy, one of which Q7A appears to match Chachi's hair and then the other questioned samples that match Kato are from the glove at Rockingham and the glove at Bundy.
I'm sorry. There's one more thing. With respect to the educational, we have a series of photographs on laser showing the microscopic comparisons, how they're conducted and the different--
All right. The first one is transmittance, appears to have something to do--what is this? Color wave length?
That shows measurement by light absorbance, comparison of fat fibers. It's an example, right. It's not our evidence, correct?
We already did this. Fiber analysis. This shows the FTIR with microscope attachment.
This shows another form of fiber analysis, the microspectrophotometer. Another aspect of fiber analysis is the florescent microscope.
This is--this just demonstrates the photograph that is taken as a result of the magnification done by a scanning electron microscope.
Well, it's kind of late in the game to be showing us all this, and I don't see what a `95 Bronco has to do with a `94 Bronco.
KEY QUOTEIt's illustrative of the differences that you can find in fiber shapes and cross-sections.
All right. The Court's had an opportunity to look at these exhibits. You may take your places again, counsel. All right. Either side have any other comments they want to make as to these items?
Will your Honor allow us a moment to have a break to have further comment? Can we have perhaps--will the Court allow us 10 minutes?
I do apologize, your Honor, but we were correcting and fixing and changing them up until literally this morning.
KEY QUOTEOkay. Take 15. Also, the record should reflect, counsel, I did receive a videotape from Dr. Lakshmanan. So if you want to deputize somebody to come back and take a look at it.
That's an awfully tight wrap around of a small fiber around a hair is the point I'm making.
The wrapping around of the fiber around her hair? The--that during the murder, the Defendant was wearing fabric of this kind of fiber, the blue black cotton fiber, and that in the course of stabbing, got some of her hair or in the course of grabbing her by the hair back, in the course of the stabbing, got one of her hairs on his clothing, which, when he went back to Ron Goldman, transferred to Ron Goldman's shirt.
I do apologize, your Honor, but we were correcting and fixing and changing them up until literally this morning.
Well, it's kind of late in the game to be showing us all this, and I don't see what a '95 Bronco has to do with a '94 Bronco.
Nice boards.