Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Please be seated. All right. People may call their next witness.

Thank you, your Honor. The People call Miss Denise Lewis.

Miss Lewis.

Denise Lewis, called as a witness by the People, was sworn and testified as follows:

Raise your right hand, please. You do solemnly swear that the testimony you may give in the cause now pending before this court, shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

I do.

Please have a seat on the witness stand and state your first and last names for the record.

Denise Lewis, D-E-N-I-S-E, Lewis, L-E-W-I-S.

Thank you.

Miss Clark.

Thank you, your Honor. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.

THE JURY: Good afternoon.

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. CLARK

Good afternoon, Miss Lewis.

Good afternoon.

Can you tell us, please, what you do for a living?

I work for Los Angeles Police Department. I'm a laboratory technician assigned to Scientific Investigation Division. I've been with Los Angeles Police Department since 1981.

If I could ask you to please slow down for the court reporter and try and keep your voice up just a little bit, okay?

Yes.

Very.

All right. Tell us what that means. What does a lab technician do?

My function with Los Angeles Police Department, I'm assigned to go out in the field with the criminalist, help gather evidence at crime scenes. I also--one of my primary responsibilities is to handle all Coroner's evidence, evidence from the Coroner's office into our lab for analysis. I assign booking numbers to it, itemize them.

Now, do you have some kind of a background in science?

Yes. I've got a bachelors in biology and I've got a postgrad class at UCLA in biochemistry.

And when did you begin with LAPD?

In 1981.

And were you--have you continuously been with LAPD since then?

I've been on the books with Los Angeles Police Department the entire time, but I have been off--there was a period of time, two years, where I because off due to work comp situation.

And when you say "Work comp situation," what was that?

I had a slip and fall downstairs while at work.

Is that an injury you currently still suffer from?

Yes, it is.

Are you back to work now?

Yes, I am.

And when did you return to work?

June 1993.

All right. Now, did you receive some training in the handling of items concerning hair and trace that may be on those items?

Yes, I have.

Now, when I say hair and trace, tell us what that means.

Hair, the obvious, different hair. Trace, you've got soil debris. You also have carpet fibers. Anything--minute items that might have been dropped from various items.

How about clothing fibers?

Yes.

And what is it exactly that you've learned with respect to how items that may contain hairs and fibers for analysis should be handled?

Could you rephrase, please?

Sure. When you are handling items that are recovered from a crime scene, items of evidence that may have hairs or fibers on them that need to be preserved for analysis, is there in general something that you're required to do that you know you must do in order to preserve the hair and fiber evidence?

Well, basically we've got various ways of collecting the items. First, we have to--when we observe the items--which we can use opaque lighting for observation of hair and trace evidence. Once we discover it, we're going to use gloved hands, gather the evidence, put it either into a plastic container or a paper bindle or we also use sticky lifts or a tape type lift to gather the evidence.

Now, do you take any particular care with the items of evidence that are recovered to make sure that hair and trace is not lost or transferred to another item?

Yes, we do.

And what kind of measures are those?

Well, as an example, with the sticky lifts, that's one way of, you pick it up and it's not going to go anywhere because you take it from the tape and then you put it on a--like a cardboard or sometimes we use a fingerprint card in the field. And that will preserve it and it won't allow cross-contamination with other items. We also--when we pick up a trace--hair or trace, we put it into a plastic envelope that will keep it. We keep everything separate. We don't cross mingle things.

Okay. Now, when you are handling items of evidence that are recovered from a crime scene for the purpose of preserving them in some manner, how are you dressed?

When I'm at the crime scene itself?

No. When you're at the lab.

When I'm in the lab, I'm either wearing our cloth or cotton lab coat or I'll wear a disposable lab coat. And depending on if I'm handling bulky items such as clothing or other carpets or whatever, I'll have additional protection of disposable sleeves on plus I wear gloves. And occasionally I'll wear eye protection.

Now, when you say "Lab coat," what color is that coat?

It's a white coat.

Is that standard wear in the lab?

Yes, it is.

And with respect to gloves, what kind of gloves do you use?

They're latex.

When you say disposable sleeves, can you describe what those are?

It's a paper like material and the sleeves come up to the elbow, goes from my wrist to my elbow. It's just added protection for my wrist area and my elbow since you tend to--you can brush your arms on things that will gather evidence. I don't want that to be transferred onto my person or make a chance--you know, to make sure I don't cross-contaminate anything.

Now, have you ever processed--how many Coroner's cases have you processed in the past?

Well over 200.

Was this case that's now before this Court and this jury a Coroner's case for you?

Yes, it was.

And what does that mean?

It means it was evidence that was picked up from the Coroner's office and brought to me for handling and booking of the items, make the police report and then put it back into our what we call evidence control unit, which controls the evidence; and from there, it goes into the lab for analysis.

Okay. Do you also assign item numbers to the items that come from the Coroner's office to you?

Yes, I do.

In this particular case, what did those items in general consist of?

Physical evidence consisted of the EDTA swatch, which is a blood swatch from the victims, also decedent's hair kit, fingernail kit, blood scrapings, soil and debris, clothing. I think that's it that I can think of.

Now, did you personally come into contact with any of the items of evidence found at the crime scene at Bundy or at Rockingham?

No, I did not.

So you did not process a knit cap, item no. 38, found at Bundy?

No, I did not.

Or a glove found at Bundy or a glove found at Rockingham?

No.

Did you ever come into contact with a piece of carpet recovered from the Defendant's Bronco?

No.

Did you ever come in contact with a cap recovered from the Defendant's Bronco?

No.

Did you ever come into contact with the Defendant's hair sample?

No.

Or with the Defendant's socks found in his bedroom?

No.

You touched none of those items, never saw them?

I did not touch any of the items. I believe I saw a couple of the items, but that was just while they were being worked on by somebody else. I never went near them.

And when in relationship to the work you performed in this case was it that you even saw those items?

The items were observed when--when Collin was working on the gloves I believe and a cap was observed when it was being worked on in our trace unit or looked at. I don't remember the exact particulars of it.

At that point, had you even done the processing on the Coroner's items that you worked on in this case?

No.

All right. Now, directing your attention to the date of June the 27th, 1994, on that date, did you receive evidence from the Coroner's office pertaining to this case?

Yes, I did.

And who did you receive it from?

Deputy Degrandis, who was our evidence control officer at the time.

And what does she do?

Her assignment at that--her function for that day anyway was to go to the Coroner's office and actually physically pick up the items for me. She brings them back to Scientific Investigation Division, where at that point she hands it off to me, and then I take the items that are in my custody at that stage.

Okay. So what did you get?

Once again, I received EDTA swatches from both victims, decedent's--

Wait. Wait. Let me hold up. I don't want you to repeat. What I mean, in terms of the packaging, what physically did she give to you?

I received two manila envelopes, one for each victim, which contained items, and two mesh bags. Each bag contained items per victim.

Okay. So she physically handed you two manila envelopes?

Yes.

And two mesh bags?

Correct.

Those are white mesh bags?

Yes.

In each mesh bag were items for each victim?

Yes.

So the victims' items were separated?

Yes.

With respect to the bag for Ron Goldman, can you tell us, was there a Coroner's number in that mesh bag identifying that mesh bag as containing his items?

Yes.

What was that Coroner's number?

Is it okay if I look at my notes?

You need to refresh your memory?

Yes.

Please do.

Mr. Goldman's Coroner case number is 94-05135.

And what did his mesh bag contain?

The mesh bag contained a bag that was listed as containing shoes, pants. Third bag also contained a shirt.

Okay. Now, when you say "Listed," was there something written on the bag itself?

Yes.

All right. So the--was this a brown bag?

Yes.

Okay. Was it sealed?

Yes.

And so was there a brown bag on which was marked "Shoes"?

Yes.

And was that sealed?

Yes.

And a brown bag marked "Pants"--was that the only item in that bag?

No. It was pants, socks.

And was it marked as "Pants, socks"?

Yes.

Also sealed?

Yes.

And with respect to a third brown bag, you indicated "Shirt"?

Yes.

So that was alone in its bag?

There was a shirt and there were other items in it, but it was only listed as a shirt bag.

And was it sealed?

Yes.

And Nicole Brown's mesh bag, what did that contain?

It had one brown bag inside of it.

And do you know offhand the Coroner's number that was contained in that mesh bag?

Offhand, no. Refer to my notes, I can give it to you.

Do you need to refresh your memory?

Yes, please.

Go ahead.

94-05136.

And what--was there a tag or something on that mesh bag that said that number?

Yes.

Did it also have her name?

Yes.

Same for Ron Goldman?

Yes.

And you said it had one brown bag?

Yes.

And what was that--was there a marking on it?

Yes.

What?

"Dress, panties."

Was it sealed?

Yes.

So you have these two large manila envelopes, and do those have some kind of identifications on them?

Both envelopes have a Coroner case number on them.

And what Coroner's case numbers were on them?

On Mr. Goldman's, it was 94-05135 and Miss Brown's was 94-05136.

What did you do with those two manila envelopes and the two mesh bags after you got them from Deputy Degrandis?

They were taken to the evidence processing room.

And is that someplace in SID?

Yes, it is.

What is that?

It is the secured area that is available for the criminalists and myself to go through evidence, to itemize them. It's for booking from crime scenes and for my purposes of the Coroner's evidence.

Now, when you took those items into the evidence processing room, what did you do first?

Could you rephrase, please?

Yes. You took the items into the evidence processing room?

Yes.

What did you do first when you got there?

Put the bags down.

Okay. After you put the bags down.

Then I prepared to go through the--the items to find out what I have for listing basically to start categorizing for my police report.

All right. Now, did you do the--both Ronald Goldman's and Nicole Brown's items at the same time?

No, ma'am.

How did you set that up as far as organization?

I started with Mr. Goldman's items first. Nicole's was put on the side.

So you--who did you begin with? You said Ronald Goldman?

Yes.

What did you do to prepare to examine his items?

Gowned up, number one.

"Gowned up," meaning you put on your lab coat?

Lab coat. The sleeves were on, put gloves on, and then I prepared an area on the counter, what I consider a clean area so I can work on it, make sure that I don't contaminate the counter or contaminate the items I'm working with.

So you were wearing a lab coat with disposable sleeves and latex gloves?

Yes.

What did you do with the counter area to make it a clean area?

I laid down two layers of disposal terrycloth towels.

Why did you do that?

It is a small working area for myself. It just keeps everything nice and confined. It's close. It makes sure I don't contaminate the counter, also make sure nothing contaminates the items that I'm working with.

Okay. And what did you do first?

I removed the items out of the manila envelope first, out of Mr. Goldman's manila envelope, pulled them out for identification.

And what items were in that manila envelope?

The EDTA swatch and an envelope that is marked "EDTA" and a second envelope that is marked "Decedent's hair kit."

All right. Now, what is the EDTA--the EDTA envelope or swatch?

It is a blood preservative. It is a cotton swatch I believe and it is soaked with EDTA, which is, as I said, a blood preservative; and the Coroner uses this to gather a sample of the victim's blood while doing the autopsy.

All right. So the envelope that contains the sample of the victim's blood is in one envelope, small envelope by itself?

Correct.

Is that like a coin size envelope?

Yes.

Was it sealed?

Yes.

Did you unseal it?

No.

And you said there was a decedent's hair kit in there as well?

Yes.

I'm going to ask you to direct your attention to the monitor.

Your Honor, I ask that this photograph be marked as People's next in order, 412?

412.

Thank you.

See what's there on 412?

Yes.

Is that familiar?

Yes, it is.

Please tell us what it is.

That is the decedent's hair kit.

For?

It's difficult to read. One moment, please.

Would it help if we zoomed in there? Hey. Thank you.

Much better. It's for Mr. Goldman.

Okay.

If you can pull it back out, John. Thank you.

All right. Now, there's three coin envelopes to the right of the larger one marked "Decedent's hair kit." Were they contained inside that envelope marked "Decedent's hair kit" when you saw them?

I never opened up the decedent's hair kit to verify what was inside the envelope. I--I can say that the three envelopes marked what the Coroner has marked on the envelope as being contained, but I can't confirm it.

Okay. Well, when you received that larger envelope on the left-hand side that it's been titled "Decedent's hair kit," was it sealed?

Yes, it was.

Did you ever open it?

No, I didn't.

And, counsel, may it be stipulated that Miss Lewis received that decedent's hair kit envelope in a sealed condition and never opened it at any time?

So stipulated.

All right. The stipulation is accepted by the Court.

Now, when you removed that item and the EDTA swatch from the manila envelope for Ron Goldman, did you assign it item number?

Yes, I did.

And what did you assign to what?

EDTA swatch, I assigned no. 72, and the decedent's hair kit, I assigned no. 73.

And that was the number shown in the upper right-hand corner of that photograph?

Yes, it is.

And let the jury see that too. Is that your handwriting there on the envelope?

The "73" is, yes, and my writing on the bottom, yes.

Where on the bottom is your writing?

My initials "Dl" and my serial number and the 6-27-94 is my writing.

Is that the second line at the very bottom there?

Yes, it is.

All right. That's fine. Thank you.

What did you do with the envelopes, the decedent's hair kit that's at the left side of that photograph and the EDTA swatch after you gave them item numbers?

I created an analyzed frozen envelope. It is a white envelope that we use to actually book it into our property room. I filled out the information on it and I put these items into that envelope.

And I'm showing you now a photograph that I would ask to be marked People's next in order, 413?

All right. 413.

Do you recognize what's being shown to you here?

Yes, I do.

What is it?

It is the analyzed frozen envelope.

And is that the frozen envelope that you placed item no. 73 and item no. 72 into?

Yes.

Do you see your initials on it or your writing on it?

Yes, I do.

And where is that?

The fourth line down, "Lewis D., Charles 9013."

That's you?

Yes.

Okay. And then it lists item numbers. Are those the item numbers, the items contained in that envelope?

They were.

All right. Now, if you put the decedent's hair kit for Ronald Goldman and the EDTA swatch for Ronald Goldman with the item numbers into this white envelope, what did you do next?

At that time, I thought I was completed with Ron Goldman's physical evidence. So I proceeded on to Nicole Simpson's physical evidence.

And in that respect, what did you do?

I--

To prepare?

To prepare for it, I discarded--well, excuse me. I first looked at the terrycloth towels that I had down to make sure nothing seeped through, that I didn't have any trace evidence or any blood on them. They were clean. They were discarded. My gloves were discarded and fresh gloves were applied and new terrycloth towels were placed down on the counter.

And what did you do then?

Then I proceeded to grab the or pull out the manila envelope that had Miss Brown's information, her physical evidence.

And by that, you mean--"Her physical evidence," you mean--

Her physical evidence meaning hair, the blood swatch, some blood scrapings and fingernail clippings.

Okay. Now, the manila envelopes for Ron and Nicole that you're referring to, were those--those are the large envelopes that contain the smaller ones you've just described?

Yes.

Were they closed in some manner?

It's just--they're closed with just the metal clasp on it.

Is that a clasp that you just spread out and flatten?

Right. It's just an eight by 10 envelope.

Okay. Contained inside the manila envelope with Nicole Brown's identifying information on it, you found what?

An EDTA swatch, a decedent's hair kit, a fingernail kit and two physical evidence envelopes that contained blood scrapings per the Coroner's office.

Were those sealed?

Yes, they were.

Did you open the seals on any of those smaller envelopes?

No.

And, counsel, may it be stipulated that Miss Lewis received the decedent's hair kit from Nicole Brown on June 27th in a sealed condition from the Coroner's office and never opened the seal?

Yes.

Thank you.

All right. The stipulation is accepted by the Court.

Thank you, your Honor.

So you had--with respect to the decedent's hair kit, do you recognize what's being shown to you in the photograph now before you?

Yes.

Ask that this photograph be marked People's 414, your Honor.

414.

Thank you.

What is it?

It's the decedent's hair kit. It's marked for--could it be focused a little bit better, please? For brown Simpson, Nicole with Coroner case no. 945136.

All right. Let me just ask, Miss Fitzpatrick, apparently our monitor in front of juror no. 1 is not working; is that correct, juror no. 1? Can we check that real quick? Mr. Fairtlough, you want to check that?

Back on. All right. Proceed. Thank you. Did we forget to turn it on?

Yes, your Honor. It just needed to be turned on.

Miss Clark.

And that is the decedent's hair kit for Nicole Simpson?

Yes, it is.

All right. What did you do with the decedent's hair kit that you had gotten a sealed condition, the EDTA swatch, fingernail kit and the blood scrapings, all those sealed envelopes? What did you do with them?

The items were all--I added the reporting number, the district reporting number, the DR number, my initials, serial number, the date that I received the items from Miss Degrandis and the item number for the--each individual item number.

Okay. Now, I see a number crossed over there on decedent's hair kit.

Yes.

Is that your doing?

Yes, it is, with my initials.

You had to change that number at some point?

Yes, I did.

All right. We'll get back to that. It's "75" there that's crossed out, correct?

Correct.

But are those your initials next to that?

Yes, they are.

And underneath that, number 83?

Yes.

You wrote that down?

Yes, I did.

And is number 83 the item number that it actually is assigned?

May I refer to my notes?

Yes.

Yes, it is.

All right. After you got done initialing and itemizing by number all of the items for Nicole Brown from the manila envelope, what did you do?

Once again, I looked at the terrycloth towels to make sure there isn't any trace evidence that was left. Nothing was observed. The cloth towels and my gloves were discarded.

And what did you do with those actual envelopes?

Those were also--

I'm sorry. Go ahead.

Those were also discarded.

The envelopes?

The envelopes--are you referring to the smaller envelopes or are you referring to the middle envelopes?

I'm referring to the smaller envelopes.

The smaller envelopes were put into the frozen--the analyzed frozen envelope, the white frozen envelope.

The one that we just saw on the screen before, People's 413?

Yes. The same one as Mr. Goldman's.

The same one?

It's the same envelope as what I put Mr. Goldman's evidence into.

Okay. Now, if we could go back to 83 for a minute. With respect to this photograph no. 414, right here before you you see only item no. 83, correct?

Correct.

The other envelopes you're referring to, the EDTA swatch and the fingernail kit and blood scrapings, were separate envelopes?

Yes, they are.

Were they as big as the decedent's hair kit, if you remember?

Not all--no, they're not.

But they got their own item numbers, correct?

Yes, they did.

So after you put the decedent's hair kit and the other envelopes into the white frozen envelope, what did you do next?

I sealed the envelope.

And then what did you do?

The envelope was placed into the freezer that is inside our supply room area, which is also a secured area.

Okay. Now, you indicated I believe also that you changed your gloves and threw away the terrycloth towels?

Yes.

What--did you--was there any paper down on that table?

I then placed paper down for the next stage of the itemization.

What kind of paper is it?

It's butcher block paper.

Okay. What was the next thing that you did after you put that butcher block paper down?

Then I gathered Mr. Goldman's--the white mesh bag and started preparing to go through those items.

Who did you begin with?

Mr. Goldman's items.

And where were Nicole's items while you were doing that?

They were on the side on another table.

Were any of the bags with her clothing opened at that time?

No.

Sealed shut?

Yes.

The white paper that you put down, is that clean?

Yes, it is.

Which item did you begin with for Ron Goldman?

I started with a bag that was marked "Shirt."

What did you do with that bag?

The bag was opened up, and inside I observed a heavy shirt and also a white, a large white bindle of paper.

Okay. Now, the bag containing the shirt, was it sealed in any manner when you got it?

It had Coroner's tape seal on it, yes.

I have a photograph that is now on the screen, your Honor, I would be marked People's 415.

415.

Thank you.

Do you recognize the item and the bag that's in front of you now on the monitor?

Yes, I do.

And what is that?

That is the shirt that came--that's Mr. Goldman's shirt or identified from the Coroner's office as being Mr. Goldman's shirt and that is the bag that I placed the shirt into.

Okay. Now, that is not the bag that you first received the shirt in, correct?

No, ma'am.

And can you describe the bag that you received the shirt in?

It's a brown paper bag very similar to that (Indicating.)

Okay. When you opened the bag, you saw that there was a bindle in that bag as well as the shirt?

Yes.

Were there any other items of clothing in that bag?

No.

And what did the bindle look like?

It was a large bindle, folded paper. I couldn't--the approximate size would have been about six by eight inches thereabouts.

And was it sealed?

Yes, it was.

Did it have some writing on it?

Yes, it did.

What writing if you remember?

Is it all right if I refer to my notes?

Do you need to refresh your memory?

Yes, I do.

You may.

May I look, your Honor?

You may.

Is there a date?

I don't have that in my notes. No, ma'am.

Okay. Is there a description on that bindle?

That is the only description from them.

Okay. When you noticed that there was a bindle inside the bag, what did you do?

I contacted my supervisor, Mr. Matheson, to verify that I continue with my normal procedure on handling evidence.

And what is your normal procedure?

Anything that I cannot identify for my report, I open up to verify what the contents are so I can appropriately describe them for my report.

And what did Mr. Matheson tell you to do?

Proceed as usual, open up the items.

Did you?

Yes, I did.

Tell us exactly what you did with that bindle.

Well, over the butcher block paper that I had down myself, clean butcher block paper, I opened up the bindle and looked to see what was inside. I unsealed the bindle, looked to see what was inside and discovered dirt and debris, and then I resealed the package.

Where was the shirt when you did that?

It was still in its bag and put aside on another table.

So the shirt was not near the bindle as you opened it?

No, it was not.

Two photographs, your Honor, ask that they're going to be marked, the upper one with the bindle closed, no. 77 on it People's 416.

So marked.

Thank you.

And below that, your Honor--could we make that 416-A?

Sure.

Thank you.

Which is apparently the bindle unfolded.

Exactly.

Do you recognize what is shown to you in 416 and 416-A?

Yes.

Please describe for us, please, in 416, what's that?

416 is the way the bindle--basically the way the bindle looked when I received it except for the Los Angeles Police Department evidence seal on it and my initials.

Was it sealed when you first found it inside the shirt bag?

Yes. It was, with the Coroner's office seal.

And the description that you read to us earlier?

Is what is written partially underneath that seal of mine.

Is it soil or debris under Ron Goldman's jacket? Oh, from under Ron Goldman's jacket?

Right.

All right. Is that the writing you found on the envelope when you first saw it on June 27th?

Yes, it is.

And when you opened it, you saw what is reflected in the photograph 416-A?

Yes, it is.

Okay. And that is the--that is the same bindle, but open, correct?

Correct.

When you saw the contents of the envelope, what did you do? Did you touch the soil and debris?

No, ma'am.

You just looked?

Just looked and folded it back up and sealed it.

Resealed it?

Yes.

And what did you do with the bindle after you resealed it?

It was placed on the counter with other items.

Did you look at your gloves after you resealed that bindle?

Yes.

What--for what purpose?

Just to verify that they're clean, that nothing got on--no transfer of any trace evidence.

Okay. Did you look at the butcher paper that was on top of table under the bindle that--when you looked at it?

Yes, I did.

And for what purpose did you look at that butcher paper?

For the same thing, to make sure no trace evidence had fallen out from the bindle when I opened it up.

And did you see any?

No.

So what did you do?

The butcher block paper was removed. It was--my gloves and the paper were both put in the trash. They were clean.

What happened next?

At that stage, I put fresh paper down on the table, and then I pulled out the shirt to look at it for identification purposes.

Now, at this point, did you actually number this bindle?

Yes, ma'am, I did. It later got crossed off.

What number did you initially give this?

Initially it was given--I have 74 on there. It was initially given 74 and that was crossed off. There was one thing that happened between this stage before I gave it the 74 that I forgot.

Oh, tell us. What happened?

That was, when I discovered that I had this soil and what I consider as additional physical evidence, I like to keep my items--basically, my physical evidence with the physical evidence that belongs to the individual. This was physical evidence that came with--that belonged to Ron Goldman. So I went back into the freezer where I had put the frozen evidence envelope, gathered that up, brought it back into the evidence processing room, removed it--opened--unsealed it, removed the items in it and crossed off the numbers that I had assigned initially to Miss Brown's items so I can keep Mr. Goldman's items all consecutive, and I assigned him 74, which got crossed off again due to an additional item that I found later on.

All right. So is it unusual to find bindles in the packages concerning the clothing from the Coroner's office?

Yes, it is.

So when you process the Coroner's items, in general--when you say items of physical evidence, are you talking about the hair kit, the blood, the fingernails, that sort of thing?

Yes, I am.

And so you keep those consecutive for each victim?

Yes.

And then you keep the clothing consecutive for each victim?

Yes.

When you discovered this bindle in Ron Goldman's shirt bag, that's what caused you to go back and start the renumbering all over again?

Yes.

When you retrieved the frozen analysis envelope back out of the freezer, it was sealed, correct?

Yes.

Did you have to break that seal?

Yes, I did.

And why is that?

The only way to get back into the envelope is to break the seal.

And you decided you were going to put this bindle with soil and debris into the frozen analysis envelope?

No. It was decided that I was going to have to renumber Nicole's items. So I had to get into the--into the bindle to cross off those numbers.

When you say renumber Nicole's items, you mean her hair kit and fingernail kit, that sort of thing?

Yes.

On the front of that frozen analysis envelope, that white envelope, do you have a description by item number of what is supposed to be contained in it?

The item numbers are on it, yes.

Did that--would that have to be changed too?

Yes, it did.

So did you just cross off the numbers on the front of it?

No. I made a whole new envelope, which is the one that we saw earlier.

That's the one that was in the photograph marked People's 413?

Yes.

That one (Indicating)?

Yes.

Okay. So after you broke the seals and you crossed off the numbers for Nicole Brown's items like her hair kit, fingernail kit, blood scrapings, et cetera, then what did you do?

After I crossed her items off, then I proceed--I went back to--well, her items were placed on the side on the counter. Basically the counter is a clean area. No--the clothing, the loose clothing, nothing is left over there. Everything--anything that is on the counter is going to be kept sealed.

So did you put Ron's decedent's hair kit and Nicole's decedent's hair kit both into the new frozen analysis envelope?

Yes, I did.

Along with the other items you've mentioned that you had in there previously?

Yes.

And that would be items 73 and 83 for the hair kits respectively?

Yes.

Now, this time, did you seal it and put it into the freezer?

No, I didn't.

And why not?

I received one surprise from the Coroner's office. I wanted to double-check, wait until I went through all the items to make sure that there weren't--there wasn't anything else mixed in with other items.

All right. Now, I believe you testified that the bindle that had been in the bag with the shirt you had folded up, resealed and put to the side, correct?

Yes.

And then you said you changed your gloves and the butcher paper?

Yes.

Then what did you do?

Then at that stage, I went to the next bag and brought it to the--I'm sorry. Did I say I put down fresh butcher block paper?

Yes, you did. Did you examine the shirt?

Yes. I also examined the shirt.

And in what manner did you examine the shirt? Please describe for us how you did that.

Well, the shirt was taken out of the brown paper bag and the shirt was laid on the clean butcher block paper that I had laid down.

What, if anything, unusual did you observe about the shirt?

Mold. Moldy areas.

Moldy?

Yes.

How did that look?

Green fuzz.

In any--was there what appeared to be blood in the areas of green fuzz on the shirt?

Yes.

Was there a lot of what appeared to be blood on that shirt?

Yes.

Was it damp when you took it out of the bag?

No.

Dry?

Yes.

Okay. When you took it out of the bag, were you wearing your lab coat?

Yes.

Were you wearing clean gloves?

Yes.

Were you wearing disposable sleeves?

Yes.

And you took it out onto the clean butcher paper?

Yes.

Did you shake it?

No.

Did you twist it?

No. It was just laid out on the butcher block paper. You try not to disturb the clothing as much as possible.

And why is that?

Keep all trace evidence that came with the clothing on the clothing.

So you purposely avoided shaking or moving it a lot?

Yes.

Other than the mold, what else did you see?

Mold and blood. Nothing else was--I wasn't looking for any real trace evidence. I'm just looking for abnormalities. I check the make of the or the style of the shirt, the type of shirt for identification for descriptive purposes.

So that's not your function then, is to collect trace evidence? You're not doing that?

Not when I'm dealing with Coroner's evidence, no.

What is your primary purpose then in taking the items out of the bags and looking at them?

For descriptive purposes to be able to identify them in court.

And is it an inventory control to make sure you're getting what the Coroner claims you're getting?

Yes.

After you looked at the shirt, after you laid it down and looked at it, then what did you do?

The shirt was put back into a clean bag.

Did you fold it in some manner?

It was folded and then it was put in the bag and then I observed--

Go ahead.

Then I looked at the butcher block paper to make sure--to see if there was any trace evidence or anything left on the paper.

After you put the shirt into the bag?

Yes.

Now, the bag that's up in the upper left-hand corner--