📄 Redirect examination of William Shields — Thursday, June 22, 1995
Address:
C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\JUN\22\REDIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-WILLIA.DOC
TRIAL
▲ Day 101 of 167

Redirect examination of William Shields

Witness: Dr. William Shields
Examiner: George Clarke
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Thursday, June 22, 1995 • Utterances: 109
Prosecutor George Clarke cross-examines defense DNA statistics expert Dr. Renee Shields, challenging her qualifications relative to prosecution expert Dr. Bruce Weir and probing the limits of her review of the case evidence. Clarke elicits a memorable exchange about a tongue-in-cheek 'god, demigod, hemigod' ranking system Shields used to rate population geneticists — in which she places herself below Weir — while she insists she is nonetheless correct on the logical inference question at issue. Clarke also establishes that Shields received a flat fee from the Defense and confined her analysis to statistical frequency data, not raw lab materials.
1 MR. CLARKE:

Yes, thank you, your Honor.

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. CLARKE

2 MR. CLARKE:

Dr. Shields, good afternoon.

3 DR. SHIELDS:

Good afternoon.

4 MR. CLARKE:

I'd like to touch on a couple of the topics that you just discussed while they're fresh in our minds. As far as coincidental identity and laboratory error, it's your belief that those should be incorporated into one figure?

5 DR. SHIELDS:

No, it's not.

6 MR. CLARKE:

So in fact, is it your testimony that those should be dealt with separately?

7 DR. SHIELDS:

Yes, in my opinion.

8 MR. CLARKE:

Now, with regard to this particular hearing, is it your understanding that what the Court is making a decision about is whether or not likelihood ratios should be admitted?

9 DR. SHIELDS:

No. Well, initially, yes, but I don't think that is anymore.

10 MR. CLARKE:

What's your understanding of the issue before this Court in terms of what the Court has to decide?

11 DR. SHIELDS:

It's been my understanding both from watching the proceedings and from discussions with attorneys that the decision has to do with whether the National Research Council's method of providing a number for mixtures is useful.

12 MR. CLARKE:

Okay. So it's your understanding that what the Court has to decide in this hearing is whether or not the NRC's recommendation is useful?

13 DR. SHIELDS:

Yes.

14 MR. CLARKE:

If the Court's decision was something different from that, would that impact any of your answers to any of the questions by Mr. Thompson?

15 MR. THOMPSON:

Object as to vague.

16 THE COURT:

Sustained.

17 MR. CLARKE:

As far as likelihood ratios--and you've discussed likelihood ratios in the course of your testimony--is it your testimony that a likelihood ratio is the same as the frequencies that Dr. Weir described on one of the exhibits with the mixture from the steering wheel, item no. 29?

18 DR. SHIELDS:

Yes.

19 MR. CLARKE:

Now, I'd like if I could, Dr. Shields--first of all, are you a statistician?

20 DR. SHIELDS:

I do statistics. I would not count myself as a statistician.

21 MR. CLARKE:

Would you consider--first of all, are you familiar with Dr. Weir?

22 DR. SHIELDS:

Yes, I am.

23 MR. CLARKE:

Is Dr. Weir an individual who is well known in the area of statistics and population frequency data?

24 DR. SHIELDS:

Yes, he is.

25 MR. CLARKE:

Would it fair to say he's very well known?

26 DR. SHIELDS:

Yes.

27 MR. CLARKE:

Very well respected?

28 DR. SHIELDS:

Absolutely.

29 MR. CLARKE:

Your particular area, that is of your Ph.D., is zoology, correct?

30 DR. SHIELDS:

No. My Ph.D. was on the evolution of sex in all organisms, and that's population genetics. I was in a zoology department, but it was an evolutionary biology and in particular, population genetic dissertation.

31 MR. CLARKE:

Is it correct--and you have a number of publications; is that correct?

32 DR. SHIELDS:

That is correct.

33 MR. CLARKE:

Is it correct that those or at least the clear majority of those publications are directed towards animals?

34 DR. SHIELDS:

No, I wouldn't say a clear majority. I would say it's about half and half.

35 MR. CLARKE:

And what would the other half be directed towards?

36 DR. SHIELDS:

Population genetic and evolution theory and how they--how they have interactions with each other.

37 MR. CLARKE:

Are you a member of any genetic societies?

38 DR. SHIELDS:

Yeah. I'm a member of the society of the study of evolution and the American society of naturalists, both of which have large memberships in the areas of genetics.

39 MR. CLARKE:

Are you a member of any statistical societies?

40 DR. SHIELDS:

No, I am not.

41 MR. CLARKE:

As far as your publications--and just briefly, was one of your publications what causes rape, a descending view?

42 DR. SHIELDS:

Yes, it was.

43 MR. CLARKE:

And was another forcible rape, an evolutionary prospective?

44 DR. SHIELDS:

Yes, it is.

45 MR. CLARKE:

And another the evolution of sex and examination of current ideas?

46 DR. SHIELDS:

Yes.

47 MR. CLARKE:

Do you have any peer reviewed articles or publications on statistics and human DNA?

48 DR. SHIELDS:

Depends on how you define "Human DNA." The answer is yes. I have paper on the behavioral brain sciences that looks at how genetics, which is how genes, which is DNA, influence human behavior. Parts of my book deal with the distribution of variation in human populations. And in that--from that perspective, the book is also peer review.

49 MR. CLARKE:

What about in terms of human DNA as it's used in forensic science?

50 DR. SHIELDS:

I have only one non-peer reviewed paper.

KEY QUOTE
51 MR. CLARKE:

And you've stated your familiarity with Dr. Weir?

52 DR. SHIELDS:

Yes.

53 MR. CLARKE:

In your opinion, are you as qualified as Dr. Weir to offer an opinion about the calculation of frequencies with mixed forensic DNA typing stains?

54 DR. SHIELDS:

Yes.

55 MR. CLARKE:

Do you have a rating system of people involved in the area of DNA and population frequencies?

56 DR. SHIELDS:

Not in that area, but in the area of population genetics.

57 MR. CLARKE:

Okay. What's that rating system?

58 MR. THOMPSON:

Objection. It's irrelevant, your Honor.

59 THE COURT:

Overruled.

60 DR. SHIELDS:

I wouldn't call it a rating system. In a prior case, during a deposition, I tongue and cheek described how I felt people's representations were in the areas of population genetics, and I used the words "God, demigod and hemigod."

61 MR. CLARKE:

God, demigod and hemigod?

62 DR. SHIELDS:

Hemigod, yeah.

63 MR. CLARKE:

And that was to describe population geneticists?

64 DR. SHIELDS:

Yes. They were asking me about the relative reputations of different population geneticists.

65 MR. CLARKE:

In Dr. Weir's report in this case--and I believe you said you read that; is that right?

66 DR. SHIELDS:

That's correct.

67 MR. CLARKE:

He cites an individual named Dr. Crowl; is that right?

68 DR. SHIELDS:

Yes.

69 MR. CLARKE:

How would you rate Dr. Crowl?

70 DR. SHIELDS:

He's at that top level.

71 MR. CLARKE:

And the top level again is what?

72 DR. SHIELDS:

Again, it's tongue and cheek, but I use the word gods.

KEY QUOTE
73 MR. CLARKE:

How do you rate yourself?

74 DR. SHIELDS:

Hemigods.

75 MR. CLARKE:

How about Dr. Weir?

76 DR. SHIELDS:

Demigods.

77 MR. CLARKE:

So he is in your view ranked higher than yourself?

78 DR. SHIELDS:

In terms of population genetics, yes. But this is not an issue of simply population genetics. It's an issue of logical inference as well, and I think he's wrong and I think I'm right.

KEY QUOTE
79 MR. CLARKE:

And you're pretty confident about that?

80 DR. SHIELDS:

Yes.

81 MR. CLARKE:

Have you read Dr. Weir's publications in the area of forensic DNA typing and population frequencies?

82 DR. SHIELDS:

Yes.

83 MR. CLARKE:

Do you respect them?

84 DR. SHIELDS:

Yes.

85 MR. CLARKE:

In terms of this case, have you examined the databases that were used in this case?

86 DR. SHIELDS:

Yes.

87 MR. CLARKE:

When were you first contacted by the Defense in this case?

88 DR. SHIELDS:

July of `94.

89 MR. CLARKE:

And have you been working on this case since then?

90 DR. SHIELDS:

Depends on how you define working on, but yes, I've interacted with members of the Defense team since then.

91 MR. CLARKE:

Can you give us a ballpark estimate of the number of hours you put into this case?

92 DR. SHIELDS:

Ballpark estimate. Over 200 hours. Certainly less than 300.

93 MR. CLARKE:

And are you charging for that time?

94 DR. SHIELDS:

Not by the hour.

95 MR. CLARKE:

Well, do you expect to receive--well, have you received any money from the Defense for this case?

96 DR. SHIELDS:

Yes. A flat fee.

97 MR. CLARKE:

Can you tell us how much that is?

98 DR. SHIELDS:

$5,000.

99 MR. CLARKE:

Do you anticipate receiving any more money from the Defense?

100 DR. SHIELDS:

Yes. One more $5,000 flat fee.

101 MR. CLARKE:

You've described seeing, for instance, this chart that's on the easel at the moment where that shows the results of the Bronco automobile. You've said you had seen that previously; is that right?

102 DR. SHIELDS:

That's correct.

103 MR. CLARKE:

Have you seen all the results charts in this case?

104 DR. SHIELDS:

I couldn't possibly be sure of that. A lot of them that I've seen previously have actually been seen from watching on television.

105 MR. CLARKE:

Okay. Were you provided reports of the testing laboratories in this case?

106 DR. SHIELDS:

Yes, I have.

107 MR. CLARKE:

Were you provided raw data from those testing laboratories in terms of bench notes, photographs, et cetera?

108 DR. SHIELDS:

I was provided with raw data on the statistical aspects of this case. I have not looked at autorads and I've not looked at strips.

109 MR. CLARKE:

So you basically directed your attention towards frequency data as opposed to the science involved in producing exclusions or inclusions?

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (4)

Dr. Renee Shields
Again, it's tongue and cheek, but I use the word gods.
Shields' self-deprecating rating system — placing herself as 'hemigod' below Weir's 'demigod' and Crowl's 'god' — undermines her credibility as an equal authority, even as she insists she is right.
Dr. Renee Shields
In terms of population genetics, yes. But this is not an issue of simply population genetics. It's an issue of logical inference as well, and I think he's wrong and I think I'm right.
Shields concedes Weir's superior standing in population genetics but pivots to claim the real dispute is about logical inference — her chosen battlefield.
Dr. Renee Shields
I have not looked at autorads and I've not looked at strips.
Clarke establishes that Shields' analysis was entirely statistical; she never reviewed the underlying raw forensic lab data, limiting the scope of her critique.
Dr. Renee Shields
I have only one non-peer reviewed paper.
In response to whether she has peer-reviewed publications on forensic human DNA, Shields admits she has only one non-peer-reviewed paper — a significant credibility concession.

Evidence (1)

Informal
Chart showing DNA results from the Bronco automobile (item no. 29, steering wheel mixture)
discussed; Shields confirmed she had seen it previously, including on television

Notable Exchanges (2)

George ClarkeDr. Renee Shields
Clarke methodically walks Shields through her 'god, demigod, hemigod' ranking system from a prior deposition, getting her to place Weir above herself before she insists she is still correct on the logical issue.
strategic
George ClarkeDr. Renee Shields
Clarke establishes Shields directed her entire analysis at statistical frequency data and never reviewed autorads, strips, or raw bench notes from the testing laboratories.
revealing

Light Moments (1)

Dr. Renee Shields
The 'god, demigod, hemigod' exchange — Shields explains she tongue-in-cheek devised this three-tier ranking for population geneticists in a prior deposition, and Clarke calmly walks her through rating Crowl, Weir, and then herself.

Credibility Attacks (3)

⚔ Dr. Renee Shields
qualification challenge
Clarke contrasted Shields' zoology-department Ph.D. and animal-focused publications against Weir's preeminence in statistics and human population frequency data, and confirmed she has only one non-peer-reviewed paper on forensic human DNA.
⚔ Dr. Renee Shields
bias / financial interest
Clarke established Shields received a $5,000 flat fee and expected a second $5,000 payment from the Defense, totaling $10,000 for over 200 hours of work.
⚔ Dr. Renee Shields
limited scope of review
Clarke revealed Shields never examined autorads, strips, or raw bench notes — confining her critique solely to statistical frequency questions while having no firsthand knowledge of the underlying forensic science.

Objections

2 objections (1 sustained, 1 overruled)
Proceeding 6516 • 109 utterances • Prosecution witness
Criminal Trial
Department 103
⚖️ Start
📂 JUN 22, 1995 📄 Redirect examination of Willia
JUN 22, 1995 KRT DvH TD