Voir dire of Richard Rubin

📄 Voir dire of Richard Rubin — Wednesday, June 21, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\JUN\21\VOIR-DIRE-OF-RICHARD-RUBIN.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 100 of 167

◀ Direct examination of Richard Rubin (part 3) Sidebar: demonstration authorization ▶

Witness: Richard Rubin
Examiner: Johnnie Cochran
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Wednesday, June 21, 1995 • Utterances: 120

Johnnie Cochran conducts a voir dire examination of glove expert Richard Rubin, probing the limits of his knowledge about the Aris extra large gloves in evidence. Cochran establishes that 'extra large' encompasses a spectrum of actual sizes, that Rubin cannot date or directly compare the evidence gloves to the comparison pair (People's 401), and that 99.5 percent of American males could fit into an extra large glove — undermining the prosecution's inference that the gloves uniquely fit O.J. Simpson.

# 1 MR. COCHRAN:

I would like to question on voir dire, your Honor.

# 2 THE COURT:

All right. Mr. Cochran.

# 3 MR. COCHRAN:

Thank you very kindly, your Honor. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

THE JURY: Good morning.

VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION BY MR. COCHRAN

# 4 MR. COCHRAN:

Good morning, Mr. Rubin.

# 5 MR. RUBIN:

Good morning, Mr. Cochran.

# 6 MR. COCHRAN:

Mr. Rubin, sir, with regard to the Aris extra light gloves, those placed before you there, am I to understand that within the extra large glove there is some variance in size of the extra large gloves manufactured by Aris Isotoner?

# 7 MR. RUBIN:

That's correct.

# 8 MR. COCHRAN:

Am I to understand, sir, that within the extra large category there are at least three different kinds; is that correct?

# 9 MR. RUBIN:

I've always considered it that way, yes.

# 10 MR. COCHRAN:

And what are the three different areas?

# 11 MR. RUBIN:

There would be a perfect size extra large, which would be the bench mark that every cutter should try to achieve in the manufacturing process. There would be an oversized extra large which would be a by-product of a cutter leaving a little bit too much excess leather in the pattern when he was actually producing the product and then there would be an undersized extra large which would be the exact reverse of the oversize where they really were trying to make an extra large glove out of a size large.

# 12 MR. COCHRAN:

And so this variation was what you came to expect as an expert in the field within the extra large area; is that correct?

# 13 MR. RUBIN:

It was commercially acceptable, correct.

# 14 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And so when you received a particular glove, you wouldn't know whether you had gotten--they all say "Extra large" on them, don't they?

# 15 MR. RUBIN:

All three of those would.

# 16 MR. COCHRAN:

They all say "Extra large" and you wouldn't know whether it was a perfect extra large or an oversize extra large or a snug extra large until you actually put it on your hand; is that correct?

# 17 MR. RUBIN:

I don't believe that the average person in America even knows what size they are, so unless your perception was that it felt good or that it fit well, the perception becomes reality.

KEY QUOTE

# 18 MR. COCHRAN:

I understand.

# 19 MR. DARDEN:

Your Honor, I object. This is improper voir dire. This is cross.

# 20 THE COURT:

Overruled. Goes to foundation.

# 21 MR. COCHRAN:

So that this whole area of trying on gloves and glove making is part science, part craft; would that be correct?

# 22 MR. RUBIN:

That's correct.

# 23 MR. COCHRAN:

And so you would have to like put your hand in and feel it to make a determination; is that correct?

# 24 MR. RUBIN:

That's correct.

# 25 MR. COCHRAN:

And so you cannot say that the gloves before you there--which I guess are marked now 401, your Honor?

# 26 THE COURT:

People's 401.

# 27 MR. COCHRAN:

So you cannot say that these gloves before you, People's 401, were cut by the same person as the gloves we saw in this case, items 9 and items 37, can you?

# 28 MR. RUBIN:

I cannot from the outside tell that.

# 29 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And the--these gloves are made in the Philippines; is that correct?

# 30 MR. RUBIN:

In manila.

# 31 MR. COCHRAN:

In manila?

# 32 MR. RUBIN:

Yes.

# 33 MR. COCHRAN:

With regard to those gloves before you, items 401, you looked at the gloves; is that correct?

# 34 MR. RUBIN:

Yes, I have.

# 35 MR. COCHRAN:

May I approach, your Honor?

# 36 THE COURT:

You may.

# 37 MR. COCHRAN:

And with regard to--with regard to these particular gloves here, 401 for identification, we know, according to the label, that, first of all, there is an extra large on the outside, right?

# 38 MR. RUBIN:

Correct.

# 39 MR. COCHRAN:

But that doesn't tell you whether they are a snug, oversize or perfect?

# 40 MR. RUBIN:

It does not.

# 41 MR. COCHRAN:

Right. And that regarding these Aris lights, we see a style number and a color; is that correct?

# 42 MR. RUBIN:

That's correct.

# 43 MR. COCHRAN:

And from looking at the outside there can you tell us when those particular gloves there, 401, were made?

# 44 MR. RUBIN:

I cannot.

# 45 MR. COCHRAN:

So--and with regard to those gloves there, 401, you can't tell us whether they are made at the same time or in the same year as the gloves that we have in this case that Mr. Simpson attempted to try on last Thursday, can you?

# 46 MR. RUBIN:

I cannot.

# 47 MR. COCHRAN:

As I understand and understood your testimony, did you tell us that the left glove of the gloves that were tried on last week, the so-called Bundy glove, that that left glove was now, at least according to your estimation, I believe you tried it on, was now perhaps a large or just a little bit larger than a large; is that right?

# 48 MR. RUBIN:

That is what I said.

# 49 MR. COCHRAN:

And that the right glove, the appearance--from appearances in your examination, was larger than the left but the left was the smaller of the two?

# 50 MR. RUBIN:

It is difficult to calculate it, but it appeared that way from just having it on my hand briefly.

# 51 MR. COCHRAN:

And Mr. Rubin, you can't tell us anything about the size of the gloves in this case back in June of 1994, can you?

# 52 MR. RUBIN:

They were designed to be an extra large. I do not know the exact sizing as of June, 1994.

# 53 MR. COCHRAN:

Are you aware and did you become aware today that the gloves in this case, items 9 and items 37, were measured by a Susan Brockbank of the Los Angeles Police Department on or about June 21st, 1994?

# 54 MR. RUBIN:

Yes, I am aware of that.

# 55 MR. COCHRAN:

You became aware of that today?

# 56 MR. RUBIN:

I believe I became aware last evening.

# 57 MR. COCHRAN:

And would you agree that the relevant--well, strike that. With regard to the gloves that are before you now, items 401, you have not today, have you, compared the gloves before you with the gloves in evidence in this case, have you?

# 58 MR. RUBIN:

I have not.

# 59 MR. COCHRAN:

But you can tell us, as an expert, that the gloves that are in evidence are smaller than the gloves before you; isn't that correct?

# 60 MR. RUBIN:

Yes, they are.

# 61 MR. COCHRAN:

For whatever reason they are smaller; isn't that correct?

# 62 MR. RUBIN:

That's correct.

# 63 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, counsel asked you some questions about this concept of shrinkage. Do you recall that?

# 64 MR. RUBIN:

Yes.

# 65 MR. COCHRAN:

And with regard to the gloves that you saw last week and the gloves in evidence here, you cannot tell this jury whether those gloves were shrunk in 1990, 1991, `92?

# 66 MR. DARDEN:

Objection, this is not--

# 67 MR. COCHRAN:

`93, `94, can you?

# 68 MR. RUBIN:

No, I cannot.

# 69 MR. COCHRAN:

And you cannot tell this jury the condition of the gloves in evidence as of June 12th, 1994; is that correct?

# 70 MR. RUBIN:

I cannot.

# 71 MR. COCHRAN:

All you know is that there were measurements taken on June 21st, 1994, and the measurements and the appearance and your putting your hand in those gloves make you know they are substantially smaller than those gloves before you there, 401; isn't that correct?

# 72 MR. RUBIN:

I would like to reserve judgment until I could see the other gloves next to these and I have not measured the other gloves myself, so I really can't say.

# 73 MR. COCHRAN:

But you've already told us that you tried on the left glove. Do you recall that?

# 74 MR. RUBIN:

Yes.

# 75 MR. COCHRAN:

And you told us that it is now a large or a little more than large; isn't that correct?

# 76 MR. RUBIN:

I believe that those gloves are definitely shorter but may not be that much different in the palm area.

KEY QUOTE

# 77 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Now, with regard to the shrinkage that counsel brought up, when gloves shrink, they shrink from north to south, don't they?

# 78 MR. RUBIN:

That's correct.

# 79 MR. COCHRAN:

That is one of your terms, is it not, north to south?

# 80 MR. RUBIN:

Yes.

# 81 MR. COCHRAN:

What does that mean?

# 82 MR. DARDEN:

Your Honor, this is improper voir dire.

# 83 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 84 MR. COCHRAN:

What does north to south mean? Would you show the jury?

# 85 MR. RUBIN:

What it means is that in the manufacturing process the gloves are actually stretched over a pattern to create the length and then that piece of leather is then stretched to the width. What you have to do is get enough leather in width which when stretched north/south creates the exact perfect size with no excess letter on the edges. Pretty much, though, to get a size nine and a half extra large glove in this type of weight of leather, what you would have to do when you stretched it to the width, you would require an additional one and one-half inch which is called an allowance, so to get a perfect nine and a half, you would actually have to have 11 inches of leather in a square left to right and then when you went north to south you would come up to about 10 and 3/8, 10 and a half inches, and you would have a perfect extra large. And what happens is because it is cut to the width and stretched to the length, when it shrinks the glove will come down in length, but not so much down here in the body.

# 86 MR. COCHRAN:

Not in width, is that what you are saying to us?

# 87 MR. RUBIN:

That's correct.

# 88 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. With regard to gloves, such as the gloves in evidence here, they can be stretched--strike that. Once they've been shrinked--that is a terrible word--once they have been shrunk, they can--once they have been shrunk they can be brought back to their normal size by continual usage of people putting their hands in them; is that correct?

# 89 MR. RUBIN:

They cannot really come all the way back.

# 90 MR. COCHRAN:

Some of the way back?

# 91 MR. RUBIN:

A good portion, depending on how long they were wet, how they were dried, what temperature conditions, how much liquid of any type was absorbed into the leather, because these particular leathers are naked. In other words, these leathers can't be absorbed.

# 92 MR. COCHRAN:

With regard to the gloves in this case, you have no knowledge of what if any liquid may have been on those gloves and how much, do you?

# 93 MR. RUBIN:

I do not know, no.

# 94 MR. COCHRAN:

With regard to gloves such as 401 and the gloves that Mr. Darden has here, those gloves, if a big--if a big person, such as these two gentlemen here, Messers. Bell and Stevens, puts their hands in some of these gloves, an extra large glove, they would tend to stretch those gloves, don't they?

# 95 MR. RUBIN:

Not initially. They would have to wear them some time before they would actually stretch. They would have to open and close their hand quite a few times. This is what really stretches a glove. When you open and close your hand, your knuckles become quite broad. That is what creates the stretch.

# 96 MR. COCHRAN:

For the record he was moving his hands up and down.

# 97 MR. COCHRAN:

But this morning in this building you saw these gentleman try on gloves that you received yesterday from Aris?

# 98 MR. RUBIN:

I saw them try on one pair of gloves.

# 99 THE COURT:

I think we are beyond the scope.

# 100 MR. COCHRAN:

All right, your Honor. May I have just a minute, your Honor? Thank you.

# 101 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)

# 102 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, with regard--thank you, your Honor. Just a couple more questions. Now, with regard to the extra large that is before you, is it correct that 99.5 percent--

# 103 MR. DARDEN:

Objection, this is irrelevant.

# 104 MR. COCHRAN:

--of all males in America--

# 105 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 106 MR. COCHRAN:

--are--may I finish the question, your Honor?

# 107 THE COURT:

I overruled the objection.

# 108 MR. COCHRAN:

Thank you, your Honor. Thank you.

# 109 MR. COCHRAN:

Is it correct, sir, that 99.5 percent of all males in America could wear an extra large glove?

# 110 MR. RUBIN:

Yes.

# 111 MR. COCHRAN:

That is expected, isn't it?

# 112 MR. RUBIN:

Yes.

# 113 MR. COCHRAN:

In that pristine condition before you there--

# 114 MR. RUBIN:

A perfect extra large. Very few people would be double XL in size, that would require a larger glove than an extra large. The gloves might fit tight on some, perfect on others, a little loose on others, but basically anybody that is smaller than an extra large in size is going to be able to get their hand in the gloves.

# 115 MR. COCHRAN:

Like 99.5 percent of the population?

# 116 MR. RUBIN:

That's correct.

# 117 MR. COCHRAN:

Male population, right?

# 118 MR. RUBIN:

That's correct.

# 119 MR. COCHRAN:

Thank you. May we approach, your Honor, just a moment?

# 120 THE COURT:

All right. With the court reporter, please.

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Richard Rubin

I don't believe that the average person in America even knows what size they are, so unless your perception was that it felt good or that it fit well, the perception becomes reality.

Rubin acknowledges that glove sizing is subjective, undercutting the idea that 'extra large' is a precise, objective measurement pointing to a specific wearer.

Richard Rubin

99.5 percent of all males in America could wear an extra large glove... basically anybody that is smaller than an extra large in size is going to be able to get their hand in the gloves.

Cochran's key point: the gloves are not uniquely sized to Simpson, they fit nearly every American male.

Richard Rubin

I do not know the exact sizing as of June, 1994.

Rubin concedes he cannot reconstruct the gloves' condition at the time of the murders, limiting the evidentiary value of his expert opinion.

Richard Rubin

I believe that those gloves are definitely shorter but may not be that much different in the palm area.

Rubin qualifies his earlier testimony about shrinkage — the gloves shrank north to south (length), not in width, which matters for how they'd fit on a hand.

Evidence (2)

People's 401

Aris extra light gloves obtained by prosecution for comparison, received from Aris the day before testimony

Discussed and examined; used as size reference against evidence gloves

Item 9 / Item 37

The Bundy glove (left) and Rockingham glove (right) found at the crime scene and Simpson's estate

Referenced; Cochran establishes Rubin cannot compare them directly to 401 without side-by-side examination

Notable Exchanges (4)

Johnnie Cochran•Richard Rubin

Cochran walks Rubin through the three sub-categories of 'extra large' — perfect, oversized, and undersized — establishing that the label alone tells you nothing about actual fit.

strategic

Johnnie Cochran•Richard Rubin

Cochran gets Rubin to explain north-to-south shrinkage: gloves shrink in length but not significantly in palm width, and liquid exposure accelerates shrinkage — though Rubin admits knowing nothing about what liquid (if any) was on the evidence gloves.

revealing

Johnnie Cochran•Richard Rubin

Cochran references two large men (Bell and Stevens) who tried on gloves in the building that morning, prompting Judge Ito to cut off the line as beyond scope.

strategic

Christopher Darden•Lance A. Ito

Darden objects repeatedly that Cochran's voir dire is really cross-examination; Ito overrules each time, ruling it goes to foundation.

tense

Credibility Attacks (1)

⚔ Richard Rubin

Scope limitation / knowledge boundary

Cochran methodically establishes the edges of Rubin's expertise: he cannot date the gloves, cannot determine their June 1994 condition, has not compared 401 to the evidence gloves side by side, and only learned of the LAPD measurements the prior evening — reducing his testimony to generalized glove-industry knowledge rather than case-specific conclusions.

Objections

4 objections (0 sustained, 3 overruled)

Proceeding 6487 • 120 utterances • Prosecution witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103