Direct examination of Gary Sims

📄 Direct examination of Gary Sims — Tuesday, June 20, 1995

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C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\JUN\20\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-GARY-SIM.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 99 of 167

◀ Jury seating Cross-examination of Gary Sims ▶

Witness: Gary Sims
Examiner: Rockne Harmon
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Tuesday, June 20, 1995 • Utterances: 200

Gary Sims of the California DOJ presents additional DNA results not available at his prior testimony, covering two Bronco blood stains (items 25 and 26 from the driver's side carpet and floor mat), a sock stain (42A-3), and the Bundy rear gate stain (117). All results are consistent with OJ Simpson's DNA profile. The most significant testimony covers RFLP testing on the sock and rear gate stains, producing identical frequency estimates of one in 57 billion African Americans, one in 150 billion Caucasians, and one in 100 billion Hispanics — matching only Simpson across eight probes. The jury is given the eight autorads to review directly.

# 1 MR. HARMON:

Thank you, your Honor.

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. HARMON

# 2 MR. HARMON:

Mr. Sims, we have a few additional results that were not available the last time you testified?

# 3 MR. SIMS:

Yes.

# 4 MR. HARMON:

Okay. And just to categorize those results, there are two results from the Bronco?

# 5 MR. SIMS:

Yes.

# 6 MR. HARMON:

And one result from one of the socks?

# 7 MR. SIMS:

Yes.

# 8 MR. HARMON:

And one result from the rear gate at Bundy, 117?

# 9 MR. SIMS:

Yes.

# 10 MR. HARMON:

Okay. Let's just go in numerical order starting with the Bronco. Did your laboratory perform PCR testing on LAPD item no. 25, which was removed from the driver's side carpet of the Bronco?

# 11 MR. SIMS:

Yes. A D1S80 PCR result was performed by Renee Montgomery.

# 12 MR. HARMON:

Okay. What result was obtained from stain no. 25 on the driver's side carpet of the Bronco?

# 13 MR. SIMS:

The D1S80 type was 24, 25.

# 14 MR. HARMON:

And is that type consistent with Mr. Simpson?

# 15 MR. SIMS:

Yes.

# 16 MR. HARMON:

Is it inconsistent with Nicole Brown?

# 17 MR. SIMS:

Yes.

# 18 MR. HARMON:

Is it inconsistent with Ronald Goldman?

# 19 MR. SIMS:

Yes.

# 20 MR. HARMON:

Was testing also performed on LAPD item no. 26 from the driver's side floor mat?

# 21 MR. SIMS:

Yes.

# 22 MR. HARMON:

And what sort of test was performed on that sample?

# 23 MR. SIMS:

Again that was a D1S80 test.

# 24 MR. HARMON:

And what was the result?

# 25 MR. SIMS:

The type was 24, 25.

# 26 MR. HARMON:

Is that consistent with Mr. Simpson?

# 27 MR. SIMS:

Yes.

# 28 MR. HARMON:

Is that inconsistent with Mr. Goldman?

# 29 MR. SIMS:

Yes.

# 30 MR. HARMON:

And inconsistent with Nicole Brown?

# 31 MR. SIMS:

Yes.

# 32 MR. HARMON:

Could you step up to the board here, the Bronco exhibit or result board, rather, no. 260 and let's start with no. 25. I made some patches here. Did you assign a DOJ DNA number to LAPD item no. 25?

# 33 MR. SIMS:

Yes. That was assigned DNA no. 39.

# 34 MR. HARMON:

Okay. May the record reflect, your Honor, I'm going to put a patch in that blank column reflecting DOJ DNA 39.

# 35 MR. HARMON:

Now, there has previously been testimony from Collin Yamauchi that he performed DQ-Alpha testing and produced the result 1.1, 1.2.

# 36 MR. SIMS:

That is my understanding.

# 37 MR. HARMON:

Is that consistent with Mr. Simpson's type as well?

# 38 MR. SIMS:

Yes, it is.

# 39 MR. HARMON:

May the record reflect that I have another patch that reflects both the DQ-Alpha and the D1S80 results?

# 40 THE COURT:

Yes.

# 41 MR. HARMON:

Thank you, your Honor.

# 42 MR. HARMON:

What I would like you to do, Mr. Sims, you've got that black marker, I would like you in the lower portion of the "Frequency" column, would you please write in the D1S80 only frequency for stain no. 25 or your no. 39?

# 43 MR. SIMS:

In the lower portion of the box?

# 44 MR. HARMON:

Yes, just the lower--could you put D1S80 and then what the frequency range would be for the type 24, 25.

# 45 MR. SIMS:

Yes. (Witness complies.)

# 46 MR. HARMON:

So the range is from one in 29 and what group would the one in 29 reflect the frequency of?

# 47 MR. SIMS:

That is the Caucasian data.

# 48 MR. HARMON:

And then what does the one in 48 reflect?

# 49 MR. SIMS:

That is the African American data.

# 50 MR. HARMON:

And is there another group in between there somewhere in the frequency range?

# 51 MR. SIMS:

Yes. Between those would be the Hispanic data.

# 52 MR. HARMON:

Okay. What is the frequency in the Hispanic population?

# 53 MR. SIMS:

One in 36.

# 54 MR. HARMON:

Your Honor, we have attached a patch. Could we move that down, Mr. Fairtlough, that reflects LAPD 26. May the record reflect we have just taped it onto the top of People's exhibit no. 260.

# 55 THE COURT:

Yes.

# 56 MR. HARMON:

Mr. Sims--and that is your DOJ DNA no. 40, LAPD item 26 from the floor mat driver's side?

# 57 MR. SIMS:

Yes.

# 58 MR. HARMON:

And the patch reflects the D1S80 type 24, 25?

# 59 MR. SIMS:

Yes.

# 60 MR. HARMON:

Could you write in the frequency for the D1S80 type for the result that you've obtained which is consistent with Mr. Simpson.

# 61 MR. SIMS:

Okay. (Witness complies.)

# 62 MR. HARMON:

Okay.

# 63 MR. SIMS:

It is the same.

# 64 MR. HARMON:

One in 29 to one in 48?

# 65 MR. SIMS:

Yes.

# 66 MR. HARMON:

And reflecting the same groups that are reflected in the frequencies for 25?

# 67 MR. SIMS:

Yes.

# 68 MR. HARMON:

Okay. Could you we move on to the sock photo board and sock result board. The sock result board is 262 and the sock photo board is 262-A.

# 69 (Brief pause.)

# 70 MR. HARMON:

Now, Mr. Sims, what sort of testing have you performed on sock 42 or sock a which you've designated for stain 42A-3? What kind of test have you performed since you were here last?

# 71 MR. SIMS:

The tests that were completed--and actually these were begun in February, but the RFLP process takes several weeks because of the low amount of DNA on this particular sample that was applied to our gel and we tested it for the restriction fragment length polymorphism results as distinguished from the PCR test that we talked about, such as the PCR tests again under DQ-Alpha and D1S80. These are the RFLP tests now that we performed.

# 72 MR. HARMON:

Okay. And when you began those tests did you already know what the PCR results were on the various stains on those socks?

# 73 MR. SIMS:

Yes, I did.

# 74 MR. HARMON:

Did you also know how much DNA was in those stains?

# 75 MR. SIMS:

Yes, I did.

# 76 MR. HARMON:

And which stain did you subject to the RFLP process?

# 77 MR. SIMS:

That was stain A-3.

# 78 MR. HARMON:

Okay. Could you point out that--where that stain was located on exhibit 262-A?

# 79 MR. SIMS:

A-3 is--is near the top, toward the top portion of the sock designated A. You notice that it is on the same side as the cut-out that we did previously--the previous RFLP on, which was A-1 stain, so now this is the A-3 stain up near the top, (Indicating).

# 80 MR. HARMON:

So A-1 is the stain that you produced RFLP results which show the consistency with Nicole Brown?

# 81 MR. SIMS:

Yes.

# 82 MR. HARMON:

Okay. How many different probes--or strike that. What samples did you have during this RFLP run? What other samples did you use during the same run?

# 83 MR. SIMS:

Yes. Because I already knew what the PCR tests were, I ran three fix samples on that particular RFLP gel. One was the sock 42A-3 stain, another was Mr. Simpson's reference sample for side-by-side comparison. And then finally I ran LAPD no. 117, which is our DNA no. 49 which was collected from the rear gate at the Bundy crime scene.

# 84 MR. HARMON:

And why didn't you include Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman in those RFLP tests?

# 85 MR. SIMS:

Because they had already been eliminated by the PCR results.

KEY QUOTE

# 86 MR. HARMON:

Okay. How many different probes were you able to submit 42A-3 to when you conducted the RFLP test?

# 87 MR. SIMS:

I have data on eight probes.

# 88 MR. HARMON:

Would you--strike that. Did those probes match Mr. Simpson's known reference type?

# 89 MR. SIMS:

Yes, they did.

# 90 MR. HARMON:

All eight of them?

# 91 MR. SIMS:

Yes, they did.

# 92 MR. HARMON:

And we will show them to the jury in a little bit, but would you please describe the frequency estimate for the match from among the RFLP probes that you tested 42A-3 against?

# 93 MR. SIMS:

Yes. The actual loci that I tested, there were eight loci. Of these I used population data from six of the loci; specifically D1S7, D2S44, D4S139, D52110, D10S28 and D17579 and the results were as follows: The profile detected in this stain occurs in approximately one in 57 billion African Americans, one in 150 billion Caucasians and one in a hundred billion Hispanics, indicating that among randomly chosen individuals this RFLP profile is a rare event, and again, this is for unrelated individuals.

# 94 MR. HARMON:

And this is an estimate that is derived from only six of the eight probes?

# 95 MR. SIMS:

Yes.

# 96 MR. HARMON:

And why don't you have additional information on the other two probes?

# 97 MR. SIMS:

For the complete set of data that we routinely use in our laboratory, we don't have population data for the additional probes.

# 98 MR. HARMON:

Your Honor, may the record reflect I'm going to put a patch in the RFLP column showing eight probes?

# 99 THE COURT:

Yes.

# 100 (Brief pause.)

# 101 MR. HARMON:

Now, Mr. Simpson, you have previously testified about a frequency estimate derived from the DQ-Alpha and D1S80 data. Is that still a valid estimate, at least as far as those tests are concerned?

# 102 MR. SIMS:

Yes.

# 103 MR. HARMON:

What I would like to do is put a magnetic--blank magnetic cover over the PCR frequency data for 42A-3, and if you will, Mr. Sims, as you have in the other stains, would you please describe the more common to the least common and write them in on exhibit 262.

# 104 MR. SIMS:

Okay. For the RFLP data the range was from one in 57 billion to one in 150 billion.

# 105 MR. HARMON:

Okay. Let's move on to the Bundy rear gate stain. That was run on the same set of RFLP tests that 42A-3 was done; is that correct?

# 106 MR. SIMS:

That's correct. It was on the same gel.

# 107 (Brief pause.)

# 108 MR. HARMON:

Did you obtain a similar number of RFLP matches as you did--with 117 as you did with 42A-3?

# 109 MR. SIMS:

Yes.

# 110 MR. HARMON:

Eight probes?

# 111 MR. SIMS:

Yes.

# 112 MR. HARMON:

Your Honor, may the record reflect I have got an 8-probe patch that I'm going to place in the RFLP column for--on exhibit 259?

# 113 THE COURT:

Yes, thank you.

# 114 MR. HARMON:

For 117.

# 115 (Brief pause.)

# 116 MR. HARMON:

And I've got a similar magnetic blank patch that I'm going to place over the PCR data.

# 117 MR. HARMON:

You previously provided DQ-Alpha and D1S80 frequency information for the PCR testing that you did on 117; is that correct?

# 118 MR. SIMS:

Yes.

# 119 MR. HARMON:

And that data is still valid as it relates to the tests--the PCR tests that you performed; is that correct?

# 120 MR. SIMS:

That's correct.

# 121 MR. HARMON:

And what frequency estimate did you produce for the eight-probe match on 117 to Mr. Simpson's known reference sample?

# 122 MR. SIMS:

These results are the same as what we obtained from the sock; namely, one in 57 billion African Americans, one in 150 billion Caucasians and one in a hundred billion Hispanics, again using the six loci there, could you write the frequency limit on that blank magnetic patch that is on exhibit 259.

KEY QUOTE

# 123 MR. SIMS:

Okay. (Witness complies.)

# 124 MR. HARMON:

Okay, Mr. Sims. Mr. Fairtlough, could I get the boards down and I would like to have marked as People's 400 for identification a set of eight autorads and I will describe--I've got them in a certain order here. They are labeled A-30. May that be 400-A; A-31, B; A-32, C; A-36, D; A-29, E; A-33, F; A-34, G; and A-35, H, your Honor.

# 125 (Peo's 400-A thru 400-H for id = autorads)

# 126 MR. HARMON:

At this point I would like to put on the elmo autorad A-30 which we have just had marked as 400-A for identification.

# 127 MR. HARMON:

Mr. Sims, I'm going to ask you to come down here and use our point maker. Just generally speaking, though, before I ask you to show the jury how you have these things aligned, when did you actually begin the RFLP process on this set of stains that included sock A-3 and 117 and Mr. Simpson's reference sample?

# 128 MR. SIMS:

That was in February.

# 129 MR. HARMON:

And when did you--actually, have tests continued even beyond when you left Berkeley?

# 130 MR. SIMS:

Yes. We--we at this point have the eight probes. We have one additional that has not been sized, but it came off just recently over the weekend and there is another one ongoing now.

# 131 MR. HARMON:

Okay. About how much DNA did you use, for example, with sock stain A-3 or your 42A-3?

# 132 MR. SIMS:

It was approximately a hundred nanograms.

# 133 MR. HARMON:

And how about with respect to 117, the rear gate stain? About how much DNA did you use?

# 134 MR. SIMS:

As I recall, that was a little less. It was about 88 nanograms was the estimate.

# 135 MR. HARMON:

Why don't we give you the point maker here. If you would, just help us get oriented on--from left to right, just so the jury can appreciate what they are looking at.

# 136 MR. SIMS:

Okay. The--do I need to--I will go through this briefly because I remember we went through this last time. These are the ladders, what we call the ladders of the molecular size standard where you see several bands in particular lanes, so that would be here in lane 1, 4, 6, 8 and 10. Then as far as the sample lanes, we have in lane 2, this is that K562 sample. This is the national standard that is run as a control on everyone of our RFLP autorads. This third lane has our quality control sample. Again, this is the one that is unknown to me at the time of the analysis and I go ahead and do my sizing and submit the data to see whether or not I got the correct answer on that particular sample. Then skipping over here to lane 5, this is the lane in which we have the sock stain designated A-3, then another ladder, then we skip over here to Mr. Simpson, the Defendant's reference sample, his known blood sample in this lane, (Indicating). Another ladder and then in this next to the last lane we have the bloodstain no. 117 from the rear gate. And then we finally finish it off with another ladder sample.

# 137 MR. HARMON:

Okay. Why don't we just mark the three samples, Mr. Simpson's sample, the sock sample and the rear gate sample, and this is the only one we will do it on, just so we can capture exactly what we have described. Could you use some color?

# 138 MR. SIMS:

Would you like me to mark the bands?

# 139 MR. HARMON:

Yeah, the bands.

# 140 MR. SIMS:

Okay. (Witness complies.)

# 141 MR. HARMON:

You are marking the sock with some pink?

# 142 MR. SIMS:

Yes, the sock is marked with pink. The Defendant's reference sample bands I will mark with the green.

# 143 MR. HARMON:

Okay. Then what color for 117?

# 144 MR. SIMS:

I will use blue for that.

# 145 MR. HARMON:

Okay. Can we capture that? May that be 400-A1, your Honor?

# 146 THE COURT:

400-A(1).

# 147 (Peo's 400-A(1) for id = computer image)

# 148 MR. HARMON:

Can we place 400-B on the elmo, your Honor.

# 149 MR. HARMON:

Mr. Sims, I'm just going to ask you to point out where the bands--do you want me to hold that for you?

# 150 MR. SIMS:

Sure.

# 151 MR. HARMON:

Just show the jury where the bands are that match among the three samples; Mr. Simpson's sample, the rear gate, 117 and sock A-3. I'm not going to ask you to mark them and capture them.

# 152 MR. SIMS:

Just to point them out?

# 153 MR. HARMON:

Just to point them out.

# 154 MR. SIMS:

Okay. On the sock A-3 there is a band here, a band here, (Indicating). On the Defendant's reference sample again a band up here, (Indicating), a band here, (Indicating). And on no. 117, again high molecular weight band there and then the lower molecular weight band is down here, (Indicating).

# 155 MR. HARMON:

Okay. I would like to place 400-C on the elmo.

# 156 MR. HARMON:

Could you please point out where the bands that match among those three samples are.

# 157 MR. SIMS:

Okay. For the sock A-3, the high molecular weight band is here, (Indicating), then a lower band is in this position. For the Defendant's reference sample, again a band up here, (Indicating), and then a lower band again in that position. And then for no. 117, the rear gate, the high molecular weight band is here, (Indicating), and the lower band is in that position again.

# 158 MR. HARMON:

Your Honor, at this point I would like to bring in the light box and put all eight autorads up there, as well as 400-A, if that is okay.

# 159 THE COURT:

Proceed.

# 160 MR. HARMON:

Thank you.

# 161 THE COURT:

Be careful. If you recollect, the box blew out our electricity the last time.

KEY QUOTE

# 162 (Brief pause.)

# 163 THE COURT:

And Mr. Harmon, do you have much more after that?

# 164 MR. HARMON:

No, your Honor. Just a couple questions and I'm done.

# 165 THE COURT:

All right.

# 166 (Brief pause.)

# 167 MR. HARMON:

Your Honor, what I would like to do is put 400-A(1) up there along with the other autorads, the eight autorads.

# 168 (Brief pause.)

# 169 MR. HARMON:

Mr. Sims, in the order I've got these, would you place the eight autorads up there, as well as 400-A(1).

# 170 (Witness complies.)

# 171 MR. HARMON:

Okay, your Honor. They are all in place now.

# 172 THE COURT:

All right. Do you want to present these to the jury?

# 173 MR. HARMON:

Yes. I would like to give the jury a chance--

# 174 THE COURT:

All right. Let's start with juror no. 7 today.

# 175 (The jurors view the autorads.)

# 176 THE COURT:

All right. Let the record reflect that all the jurors have had the opportunity and have taken the opportunity to review the eight autorads, People's 400.

# 177 MR. HARMON:

Just a couple more questions.

# 178 MR. HARMON:

Mr. Sims, why did you only do RFLP on 117?

# 179 THE COURT:

Excuse me, Mr. Harmon. Do you want to step on the other side of the monster, please. And can we turn the lights off, please?

# 180 MR. HARMON:

Mr. Sims, you actually had three stains from the rear gate that you did testing on; 115, 116 and 117; is that right?

# 181 MR. SIMS:

That's correct.

# 182 MR. HARMON:

And why did you only do RFLP on 117 from among those three stains?

# 183 MR. SIMS:

From among those three stains the yields were lower on 115 and 116, such that it might be difficult to get any RFLP at all out of those two.

# 184 MR. HARMON:

Okay. Just a couple other questions. On some of these--just to go back, because it has been a long time since the jury heard the description of the RFLP process, on some of these autorads there is something that looks like the San Andreas fault that goes across it?

# 185 MR. SIMS:

Yes, there is.

# 186 MR. HARMON:

What is that?

# 187 MR. SIMS:

There was a tear in part of that membrane on the side extending into the middle, around the middle of the actual membrane that occurred during the batch probing process.

# 188 MR. HARMON:

And the membrane is this fabric?

# 189 MR. SIMS:

It is a nylon, yes.

# 190 MR. HARMON:

And it actually tore when somebody was pulling it off the film?

# 191 MR. SIMS:

It actually tore during the manipulation process, the handling process when it goes in and out of liquid or it is opened up, because it is contained in a plastic wrap.

# 192 MR. HARMON:

What effect does that have on the testimony you just presented here?

# 193 MR. SIMS:

It has no effect.

# 194 MR. HARMON:

What did you do then?

# 195 MR. SIMS:

Well, thanks to the skill of our batch probing team, they were able to put--it is not torn in half so they were able to bring the two edges right up against each other so that you were still able to go through the whole probing process. Theoretically you could cut this thing in pieces and still size it. It just makes life more difficult.

# 196 MR. HARMON:

When in the sequence of probings was it that the membrane tore?

# 197 MR. SIMS:

It was after the first probing, so it was after the D2 membrane was--autorad was obtained.

# 198 MR. HARMON:

And that is the only one where you can't see this line that looks like an earthquake fault?

# 199 MR. SIMS:

Actually I don't think you can see it in a lot of them. Some of them you can see it; most of them you can't, as I recall.

# 200 MR. HARMON:

Okay. Thanks, Mr. Sims. I have no further questions, your Honor.

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Gary Sims

The profile detected in this stain occurs in approximately one in 57 billion African Americans, one in 150 billion Caucasians and one in a hundred billion Hispanics, indicating that among randomly chosen individuals this RFLP profile is a rare event.

The primary frequency estimate for the sock stain 42A-3 — eight-probe RFLP match to Simpson. Astronomically rare, devastating for the defense.

Gary Sims

These results are the same as what we obtained from the sock; namely, one in 57 billion African Americans, one in 150 billion Caucasians and one in a hundred billion Hispanics.

The rear gate stain 117 independently produces the identical frequency estimate as the sock stain — two separate items, same overwhelming match to Simpson.

Gary Sims

Because they had already been eliminated by the PCR results.

Explains why Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman were not included in the RFLP run for the sock — PCR had already ruled them out, sharpening the focus on Simpson.

Lance A. Ito

Be careful. If you recollect, the box blew out our electricity the last time.

Light moment from the judge about the light box used to display autorads — one of the few departures from dense technical testimony.

Evidence (8)

LAPD item 25 / DOJ DNA 39

Blood stain from driver's side carpet of the Bronco

PCR D1S80 result presented — type 24,25, consistent with Simpson, inconsistent with Brown and Goldman

LAPD item 26 / DOJ DNA 40

Blood stain from driver's side floor mat of the Bronco

PCR D1S80 result presented — type 24,25, same frequency range as item 25

People's 260

Bronco DNA result board

Updated with patches showing DOJ DNA numbers and frequency data for items 25 and 26

People's 262 / 262-A

Sock result board and sock photo board

Updated with RFLP eight-probe results for stain 42A-3; frequency data written by witness

LAPD item 117 / DOJ DNA 49

Blood stain from rear gate at Bundy crime scene

Eight-probe RFLP match to Simpson presented; frequency identical to sock stain

People's 259

Bundy rear gate DNA result board

Updated with eight-probe RFLP frequency data written by witness

+ 2 more

Notable Exchanges (3)

Rockne Harmon•Gary Sims

Harmon walks Sims through the logic of why Nicole Brown and Goldman were excluded from the RFLP run — PCR had already eliminated them, leaving only Simpson as a contributor to test against. This streamlines the jury's understanding of why the RFLP data is exclusively about Simpson.

strategic

Rockne Harmon•Gary Sims

Sims explains that a tear in the membrane — which he compares to 'the San Andreas fault' — occurred after the first probing but had no effect on results, as his team realigned the edges and continued all eight probings successfully.

preemptive damage control

Lance A. Ito•Rockne Harmon

Judge Ito directs the jury to begin reviewing the autorads starting with juror no. 7, and confirms on the record that all jurors had the opportunity to review People's 400.

procedural

Light Moments (2)

Lance A. Ito

Judge Ito warns Harmon to be careful with the light box, noting it blew out the courtroom electricity the last time it was used.

Rockne Harmon

Harmon describes the membrane tear as 'something that looks like the San Andreas fault that goes across it' — a colloquial aside in otherwise dense scientific testimony.

Witness Demeanor

(Witness complies.) — repeated multiple times when writing frequency data on exhibits or placing autorads

(Indicating) — used throughout autorad demonstrations when pointing to bands on the light box and elmo

Objections

None recorded

Proceeding 6465 • 200 utterances • Prosecution witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103