Direct examination of Richard Rubin (part 1)

📄 Direct examination of Richard Rubin (part 1) — Friday, June 16, 1995

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C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\JUN\16\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-RICHARD-.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 97 of 167

◀ Witness scheduling and procedural matters Sidebar: glove demonstration and sizing ▶

Witness: Richard Rubin
Examiner: Christopher Darden
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Friday, June 16, 1995 • Utterances: 296

Richard Rubin, the prosecution's glove expert, was recalled for follow-up direct examination by Christopher Darden. Rubin testified that the Rockingham and Bundy gloves had shrunken approximately 15 percent from their original size due to liquid exposure, that they would never return to their original dimensions, and that they would have easily fit O.J. Simpson's hands in their original condition. Critically, golf gloves retrieved from Simpson's own golf bag were all marked extra large — not double extra large — undermining the defense's narrative that the gloves were simply too small for Simpson's hands.

# 1 THE COURT:

All right. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Please be seated. Let the record reflect that we have been rejoined by all the members of our jury panel. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

THE JURY: Good morning.

# 2 THE COURT:

My apologies for having kept you in the small room for so long this morning. Some matters came up that I needed to discuss with the attorneys and it took us a little longer than I thought it was going to. And we will get right back to the witnesses. All right. Mr.--ladies and gentlemen, the Prosecution has requested permission from the Court to recall Mr. Rubin for a few brief questions. So Mr. Rubin, would you--since we released you as a witness, we will have to have Mrs. Robertson reswear you. Mrs. Robertson.

Richard Rubin, recalled as a witness by the People, having been previously sworn, resumed the stand and testified further as follows:

# 3 THE CLERK:

Please raise your right hand. You do solemnly swear that the testimony you may give in the cause now pending before this court, shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God.

# 4 MR. RUBIN:

I do.

# 5 THE CLERK:

Please have a seat on the witness stand and state and spell your first and last names for the record.

# 6 MR. RUBIN:

It is Richard Rubin, R-U-B-I-N.

# 7 THE COURT:

Mr. Darden.

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. DARDEN

# 8 MR. DARDEN:

Good morning, Mr. Rubin.

# 9 MR. RUBIN:

Good morning.

# 10 MR. DARDEN:

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

THE JURY: Good morning.

# 11 MR. DARDEN:

Mr. Rubin, yesterday you told us that you were involved for several years in the design and manufacture of leather gloves; is that correct?

# 12 MR. RUBIN:

Yes, it is.

# 13 MR. DARDEN:

You consider yourself an expert in gloves?

# 14 MR. RUBIN:

Yes, I do.

# 15 MR. DARDEN:

Now, yesterday after the demonstration you stated while on the witness stand that ordinarily the Defendant's hands--

# 16 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to this as asked and answered.

# 17 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 18 MR. DARDEN:

Should have fit into the gloves; is that correct?

# 19 MR. RUBIN:

That's correct.

# 20 MR. DARDEN:

What did you mean by that?

# 21 MR. RUBIN:

The gloves in the original condition would easily go onto the hands.

KEY QUOTE

# 22 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, I object to this. Speculation. I object.

# 23 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 24 MR. RUBIN:

Would easily go onto the hands of someone of Mr. Simpson's size.

# 25 MR. DARDEN:

The gloves you saw yesterday, did they appear to be in their original condition?

# 26 MR. RUBIN:

No, they did not.

# 27 MR. DARDEN:

And what was different about them?

# 28 MR. RUBIN:

The primary difference was the fact that due to the tremendous amount of liquid that had been on the gloves for a certain period of time, the gloves appeared to be shrunken in size from their original condition.

# 29 MR. COCHRAN:

I object to this response, your Honor. Could the Court allow us a brief time at side bar?

# 30 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 31 MR. DARDEN:

The liquid you are referring to, is that blood?

# 32 THE COURT:

Excuse me, counsel.

# 33 MR. RUBIN:

I'm not a technical--

# 34 THE COURT:

Hold it. He is not qualified to answer that question.

# 35 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Thank you. Thank you, your Honor.

# 36 MR. DARDEN:

So the gloves appeared to have shrank somewhat?

# 37 MR. RUBIN:

That's correct.

# 38 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. How much?

# 39 MR. COCHRAN:

I object to that, your Honor.

# 40 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 41 MR. COCHRAN:

Calls for speculation, your Honor.

# 42 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 43 MR. RUBIN:

It would appear, based upon my knowledge of what would occur when gloves are subjected to liquid such as water, that gloves could shrink approximately 15 percent from its original size.

# 44 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And the gloves that you saw here in court yesterday, did they appear to have shrank approximately--

# 45 MR. COCHRAN:

Leading and suggestive, your Honor.

# 46 THE COURT:

Sustained. Rephrase the question.

# 47 MR. DARDEN:

What percentage of shrinkage, if any, did you notice?

# 48 MR. COCHRAN:

Assumes a fact not in evidence, your Honor.

# 49 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 50 MR. RUBIN:

Since I didn't personally try the gloves on at any point in time, I would estimate the shrinkage of approximately 15 percent.

# 51 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, I move to strike that. No foundation for this response, if the Court pleases.

# 52 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 53 MR. DARDEN:

You could be more precise if you were to try the gloves on?

# 54 MR. RUBIN:

Yes, I could.

# 55 MR. DARDEN:

Now, you also told us yesterday that you felt that the Defendant's hand was what size? What size did you say?

# 56 MR. RUBIN:

Between a large in some styles and an extra large in other styles.

# 57 MR. DARDEN:

In your review of his hand size he is an extra extra large?

# 58 MR. RUBIN:

No.

# 59 MR. DARDEN:

Are you certain of that?

# 60 MR. RUBIN:

Yes.

# 61 MR. DARDEN:

And the gloves we had here in court yesterday, the Rockingham and the Bundy glove, were they designed to fit snugly?

# 62 MR. RUBIN:

Yes, they were.

# 63 MR. DARDEN:

Were they designed to stretch?

# 64 MR. RUBIN:

All leather gloves have some stretch.

# 65 MR. DARDEN:

What size would you say the gloves are now today, that is, in their present condition?

# 66 MR. COCHRAN:

Calls for speculation, your Honor.

# 67 THE COURT:

Sustained. He said he hasn't tried them on.

# 68 MR. DARDEN:

Okay.

# 69 MR. DARDEN:

Now, you told us that Mr. Simpson's hand size was large to extra large--strike that. Let me show you a golf bag. I believe this is Defendant's 1053, your Honor. Do you play golf at all?

# 70 MR. RUBIN:

On rare occasion.

# 71 MR. DARDEN:

You have been out to the golf course?

# 72 MR. RUBIN:

Yes, I have.

# 73 MR. DARDEN:

Do golfers tend to wear gloves?

# 74 MR. RUBIN:

Yes, they do.

# 75 MR. DARDEN:

Are golfing gloves designed to fit snugly on the hand?

# 76 MR. RUBIN:

Yes, they are.

# 77 MR. DARDEN:

For the record, your Honor, I'm opening the outer bag.

# 78 MR. DARDEN:

Mr. Rubin, if you will, could you step down from the witness stand.

# 79 (Witness complies.)

# 80 MR. DARDEN:

Can you look into the golf bag and tell us whether or not there is a compartment that contains golf balls?

# 81 MR. RUBIN:

Yes.

# 82 MR. DARDEN:

Are there also golfing gloves in that bag?

# 83 MR. RUBIN:

Yes.

# 84 MR. DARDEN:

How many gloves?

# 85 MR. RUBIN:

Three.

# 86 MR. DARDEN:

I'm going to ask you to retake the witness stand, if you will, please, and take the gloves with you.

# 87 (Witness complies.)

# 88 MR. DARDEN:

What size of those gloves, sir?

# 89 (No audible response.)

# 90 MR. DARDEN:

By the way, before you do that, the first glove you have in your hand is what brand?

# 91 MR. RUBIN:

Actually it appears like a palm tree. I think it might actually belong to one of the Polo Club Country Clubs where it was made especially for them.

# 92 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, I move to strike as not responsive to the question.

# 93 THE COURT:

Sustained. The answer is stricken.

# 94 MR. DARDEN:

Does that glove have a palm tree embroidered on it?

# 95 MR. RUBIN:

Yes, it does.

# 96 MR. DARDEN:

Is it white in color?

# 97 MR. RUBIN:

Yes, it is.

# 98 MR. DARDEN:

Does it appear to be worn?

# 99 MR. RUBIN:

Yes.

# 100 MR. DARDEN:

Your Honor, may that glove be marked People's 3--

# 101 THE COURT:

Let's actually make this 1053--Defense 1053-A.

# 102 MR. DARDEN:

Okay.

# 103 THE COURT:

Since it is coming out of 1053.

# 104 (Deft's 1053-A for id = golf glove)

# 105 MR. DARDEN:

Okay.

# 106 MR. DARDEN:

You are trying the glove on, are you?

# 107 MR. RUBIN:

Yes, I am.

# 108 MR. DARDEN:

Is there a size indication somewhere on that glove marked 1053-A?

# 109 MR. RUBIN:

Yes, it says PXL.

# 110 MR. DARDEN:

PXL. And if you will take another glove, please.

# 111 THE COURT:

Is that a left or right hand glove?

# 112 MR. RUBIN:

It is a left hand glove.

# 113 THE COURT:

Thank you.

# 114 MR. DARDEN:

Could you describe that second glove for the record, please.

# 115 MR. RUBIN:

This is actually a Footjoy golf glove with at logo FJ on the patch.

# 116 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. It is also leather?

# 117 MR. RUBIN:

Yes, it is.

# 118 MR. DARDEN:

Is it white in color?

# 119 MR. RUBIN:

Yes, it is.

# 120 MR. DARDEN:

Are you trying that glove on?

# 121 MR. RUBIN:

Yes.

# 122 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Is there a size indication anywhere on that glove?

# 123 MR. RUBIN:

This glove is marked CXL.

# 124 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And the third glove, could you tell us the name of the manufacturer of that glove?

# 125 MR. RUBIN:

There is a running dog on this. I think this logo is that of Slazenger.

# 126 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, I will move to strike, your Honor, without a further foundation.

# 127 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 128 MR. DARDEN:

Your Honor, may the third glove be marked 1053-C and the second 1053-B.

# 129 THE COURT:

Yes. The comments after by Mr. Rubin after "It has a running dog on it," that remainder of the answer is stricken as speculation.

# 130 MR. DARDEN:

Okay.

# 131 (Deft's 1053-B for id = golf glove)

# 132 (Deft's 1053-C for id = golf glove)

# 133 MR. RUBIN:

I found on the button the name Slazenger in another location.

# 134 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And that glove, would you try that glove on.

# 135 MR. RUBIN:

(Witness complies.) Yes.

# 136 MR. DARDEN:

There is a size indication anywhere on that glove?

# 137 MR. RUBIN:

RXL.

# 138 MR. DARDEN:

Now, having placed each of those gloves on your hand--

# 139 MR. RUBIN:

Yes, I have.

# 140 MR. DARDEN:

--and irrespective of the sizing indication contained in each of the gloves, can you tell us what size those gloves are?

# 141 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, I object without a further foundation.

# 142 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 143 MR. RUBIN:

These gloves are extra large.

KEY QUOTE

# 144 MR. DARDEN:

Not double extra large?

# 145 MR. RUBIN:

No.

# 146 MR. DARDEN:

And is this morning the first time that you have ever seen those gloves?

# 147 MR. RUBIN:

Yes.

# 148 MR. DARDEN:

Right here on the witness stand?

# 149 MR. RUBIN:

Right here.

# 150 MR. DARDEN:

On the issue of double extra large gloves, what percentage of the population, if you know, would fit a double extra large glove?

# 151 MR. RUBIN:

Less than one percent.

KEY QUOTE

# 152 MR. DARDEN:

And that one percent of the population, would you expect them to share some common physical characteristics in terms of size, physical size?

# 153 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, this calls for speculation.

# 154 THE COURT:

Sustained. I don't think there is a foundation for this.

# 155 MR. DARDEN:

Okay.

# 156 MR. DARDEN:

Well, when you were with Aris Isotoner you produced double XX large gloves?

# 157 MR. RUBIN:

Small quantity.

# 158 MR. DARDEN:

And why did you only produce a small quantity?

# 159 MR. RUBIN:

There was no consumer demand for the product.

# 160 MR. DARDEN:

And when there is no consumer demand, does that mean that there is no one out there wearing double extra large gloves?

# 161 MR. RUBIN:

Very few.

# 162 MR. DARDEN:

Yesterday I asked you whether or not wearing latex gloves might impede someone's ability to place a pair of leather gloves on their hands. Do you recall that question?

# 163 MR. RUBIN:

Yes, I do.

# 164 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And you said you had never tried to place latex gloves on or didn't place gloves on top of the latex gloves?

# 165 MR. RUBIN:

That's correct.

# 166 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. But you did that last night; is that correct?

# 167 MR. RUBIN:

Yes, I did.

# 168 MR. DARDEN:

And you tried on a pair of gloves?

# 169 MR. RUBIN:

Yes.

# 170 MR. DARDEN:

Yes?

# 171 MR. RUBIN:

Yes, I did.

# 172 MR. DARDEN:

That was after you put the latex gloves on?

# 173 MR. RUBIN:

Yes.

# 174 MR. DARDEN:

And the pair of gloves that you tried on, were they your own gloves?

# 175 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, I'm going to object to this. I wasn't present. I would like to approach, if the Court please.

# 176 THE COURT:

Overruled. Mr. Darden.

# 177 MR. DARDEN:

Thank you.

# 178 MR. DARDEN:

The gloves that you placed on on top of the latex gloves last night, were they your own gloves?

# 179 MR. RUBIN:

Yes, they were.

# 180 MR. DARDEN:

And what effect, if any, did the latex gloves on your hand have in terms of your ability to place your own gloves on?

# 181 MR. COCHRAN:

Before he answers that, your Honor, I would like to object.

# 182 THE COURT:

Noted.

# 183 MR. COCHRAN:

Discovery.

# 184 THE COURT:

Noted. Overruled.

# 185 MR. COCHRAN:

Thank you.

# 186 MR. RUBIN:

I had more difficulty in getting the personal gloves onto my hand with the latex glove on my hand than I normally would.

KEY QUOTE

# 187 MR. DARDEN:

Now, leather gloves do have some degree of elasticity to them; is that correct?

# 188 MR. RUBIN:

Yes, it is.

# 189 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And when we say elasticity in the context of leather gloves, what are we talking about?

# 190 MR. RUBIN:

In the process of producing leather for the glove industry, a fat liquor type material is put into the leather which creates elasticity. Over time, when people move their hands back and forth or when the gloves get wet, that fat liquor really creates elasticity and it is part of the tannage process to make gloves fit better.

# 191 MR. DARDEN:

So when gloves get wet what effect or impact does that have on the elasticity?

# 192 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to the form of the question, your Honor.

# 193 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 194 MR. RUBIN:

What happens when gloves get wet, the water or whatever it is that actually wets the glove absorbs small amounts of the fat liquor which creates shrinkage. Over time, as the gloves try naturally, the gloves actually can come back very close to its original shape, but they will never come back to the original size, because once a certain percentage of the fat liquor disappears, the glove loses a little of it's elasticity.

# 195 MR. DARDEN:

So then, Mr. Rubin, is there a way to manipulate the gloves we have here in evidence, the Rockingham and the Bundy glove, so that they can return to their original size and shape?

# 196 MR. RUBIN:

These gloves will never return to the original size and shape in the condition they are in currently.

KEY QUOTE

# 197 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. How close can we get them to their original size and shape.

# 198 MR. COCHRAN:

I object. That calls for speculation, your Honor. I don't mean to make a speaking objection, but it is speculation.

# 199 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 200 MR. DARDEN:

Do you know or do you have an opinion as to how close we can get these gloves back to their original condition?

# 201 MR. COCHRAN:

Speculation, your Honor. He doesn't know how large they were originally.

# 202 THE COURT:

Sustained. Rephrase the question.

# 203 MR. DARDEN:

You have seen gloves wet before; is that correct?

# 204 MR. RUBIN:

Many times.

# 205 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. You live back east in New York, do you?

# 206 MR. RUBIN:

That's correct.

# 207 MR. DARDEN:

It snows there?

# 208 MR. RUBIN:

Yes.

# 209 MR. DARDEN:

You wear gloves in the summer--I mean, in the winter?

# 210 MR. RUBIN:

In the winter, yes.

# 211 MR. DARDEN:

You don't wear them in June?

# 212 MR. RUBIN:

No, I do not.

# 213 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. They get wet in the winter, don't they?

# 214 MR. RUBIN:

Yes, they do.

# 215 MR. DARDEN:

And after the winter has come and gone you do put your gloves in storage, do you?

# 216 MR. RUBIN:

Yes.

# 217 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And you take them out of storage to put them on again the following winter; is that correct?

# 218 MR. RUBIN:

That's correct.

# 219 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. You have done that many times?

# 220 MR. RUBIN:

Many times.

# 221 MR. DARDEN:

And on those occasions are the gloves in the same condition as they were when you purchased them?

# 222 MR. RUBIN:

When they were purchased?

# 223 MR. DARDEN:

Yes.

# 224 MR. RUBIN:

From the time they are purchased over time--

# 225 MR. COCHRAN:

Just a moment. I object to this hypothetical, your Honor. It depends. There is too many factors that are missing just in that scenario.

# 226 MR. DARDEN:

Is this a standing objection?

# 227 MR. COCHRAN:

Okay.

# 228 THE COURT:

Have a seat, Mr. Cochran.

# 229 MR. COCHRAN:

Thank you.

# 230 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 231 MR. RUBIN:

From the time the gloves are initially purchased, at that point in time they are in their largest possible condition. Over time, if they get wet and dry naturally, they will gradually get slightly smaller. Now, what I mean by "Smaller" is not necessarily 10 or 15 percent if they are drenched in some type of liquid. Traditionally in the normal use of a dress glove, the glove might be exposed to some snow or rain or a car handle, something like that where it would get wet, and then it would gradually dry and it might lose two, three percent of its size. It wouldn't be a tremendous amount of size, but if you were to drench the gloves and have them dry naturally, that is where you would get the 10 to 15 percent shrinkage.

# 232 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. After having handled gloves that had shrank some two to three percent because of moisture and the like, have you attempted to manipulate those gloves to get them as close to their original form as possible?

# 233 MR. RUBIN:

I have.

# 234 MR. DARDEN:

On how many occasions?

# 235 MR. RUBIN:

It is really part of the process of just wearing the gloves again. The glove eventually loosens up and retains pretty much its original shape.

# 236 MR. DARDEN:

You told us also that you have manufactured gloves, correct?

# 237 MR. RUBIN:

Yes, I have.

# 238 MR. DARDEN:

You have designed gloves?

# 239 MR. RUBIN:

Yes, I have.

# 240 MR. DARDEN:

And in designing gloves do you take into consideration this factor of that shrinkage due to moisture?

# 241 MR. RUBIN:

Not really.

# 242 MR. DARDEN:

Well, do you assess or evaluate what might happen to a pair of gloves if they become wet?

# 243 MR. RUBIN:

If the gloves are constructed properly from the beginning, the fact that they might shrink two to three percent or even five percent wouldn't really have an effect on the consumer that was using them.

# 244 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. How about 15 percent?

# 245 MR. RUBIN:

That could have effect.

# 246 MR. DARDEN:

Well, based on your own personal experience with gloves and the fact that you have designed gloves and manufactured them and considered what happens to gloves when they get wet--

# 247 MR. COCHRAN:

Object, your Honor.

# 248 THE COURT:

I haven't heard a question yet. Did you not hear the question?

# 249 MR. COCHRAN:

I couldn't hear the question.

# 250 THE COURT:

Would you restate the question, please.

# 251 MR. DARDEN:

Mr. Rubin, given your expertise in manufacturing and designing gloves, your own personal experience with wet gloves, your own personal experience in trying to manipulate gloves back into their original position after they have been wet, do you have an opinion as to how close we can come to reshaping the Bundy and Rockingham glove back to their original condition?

# 252 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, I object. That question was asked before, your Honor. I object to the form of that question.

# 253 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 254 MR. RUBIN:

I don't think that those gloves in that condition could get back closer to ninety, ninety percent of its original size at this point in time.

# 255 MR. DARDEN:

You said ninety percent?

# 256 MR. RUBIN:

Approximately ninety percent.

# 257 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. May I have one moment, your Honor?

# 258 THE COURT:

Certainly.

# 259 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

# 260 MR. DARDEN:

You talked about fat liquor a few minutes ago, Mr. Rubin. What exactly is fat liquor?

# 261 MR. RUBIN:

Fat liquor is a chemical that is put into the tanning process to give the leather the stretch and elasticity in the finished product.

# 262 THE COURT:

How do you spell the "Liquor" part?

# 263 MR. RUBIN:

L-I-q-u-o-r.

# 264 THE COURT:

The same as--

# 265 MR. RUBIN:

Yes.

# 266 MR. DARDEN:

Mr. Rubin, when you measure gloves, do you measure glove size from palm to finger?

# 267 MR. RUBIN:

No, we do not.

# 268 MR. DARDEN:

How do you measure glove size?

# 269 MR. RUBIN:

Around the hand, right below the knuckle area, around the body of the hand.

# 270 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. You have never measured Mr. Simpson's hand?

# 271 MR. RUBIN:

No, I have not.

# 272 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Now, you told us yesterday as well that these leather light gloves are no longer in production; is that correct?

# 273 MR. RUBIN:

That's correct.

# 274 MR. DARDEN:

Do you know whether or not Aris Isotoner has any in stock?

# 275 MR. RUBIN:

I can't actually say that I know for sure that they have any of the original version in their possession.

# 276 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

# 277 MR. DARDEN:

And the size extra large, how many inches around the hand would constitute a glove hand that is a size extra large?

# 278 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, I object to the question without further foundation.

# 279 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 280 MR. RUBIN:

It would be in the range of nine and a half, nine and three quarters to ten and a quarter, depending upon the style, the lining.

# 281 MR. DARDEN:

And a large glove, what size of hand would fit into a large glove?

# 282 MR. RUBIN:

Nine, between nine to nine and a half.

# 283 MR. DARDEN:

And so then a hand that can fit into an extra large glove may be able to fit into a large glove as well; is that correct?

# 284 MR. RUBIN:

Yes. As I actually said yesterday, you could actually get anything from a size medium through an extra large possibly onto the hand of someone who really should wear an extra large, but they would be most comfortable with an extra large.

# 285 MR. DARDEN:

Now, you watched the demonstration yesterday; is that correct?

# 286 MR. RUBIN:

That's correct.

# 287 MR. DARDEN:

And you are an expert in gloves?

# 288 MR. RUBIN:

Yes.

# 289 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Was there anything about that demonstration that caused you to conclude that the Defendant--

# 290 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, I object to the form of the question; argumentative.

# 291 THE COURT:

Hold on.

# 292 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to the form of the question; argumentative.

# 293 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 294 MR. DARDEN:

You saw the Defendant's hands yesterday?

# 295 THE COURT:

Let me see counsel with the reporter, please.

# 296 MR. COCHRAN:

Thank you.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (5)

Richard Rubin

The gloves in the original condition would easily go onto the hands of someone of Mr. Simpson's size.

Direct rebuttal to the 'if it doesn't fit, you must acquit' moment from the glove demonstration — Rubin argues the gloves shrank and would have fit originally.

Richard Rubin

These gloves will never return to the original size and shape in the condition they are in currently.

Establishes that the shrunken state of the gloves is permanent, meaning the in-court demonstration was not representative of how the gloves would have fit at the time of the murders.

Richard Rubin

These gloves are extra large.

Referring to golf gloves pulled from Simpson's own golf bag — all three were XL, not XXL, directly contradicting any claim that Simpson's hands require double extra large gloves.

Richard Rubin

I had more difficulty in getting the personal gloves onto my hand with the latex glove on my hand than I normally would.

Explains why Simpson appeared unable to pull on the gloves during the famous courtroom demonstration — the latex gloves underneath impeded the process.

Richard Rubin

Less than one percent.

His estimate of what portion of the population would require double extra large gloves, contextualizing how implausible it would be for Simpson to need that size.

Evidence (5)

Defense 1053

O.J. Simpson's golf bag, containing golf balls and three golf gloves

introduced and opened in court by Darden

Defense 1053-A

White golf glove with palm tree emblem, marked PXL (extra large), left hand, worn

marked, tried on by Rubin, confirmed as extra large

Defense 1053-B

White Footjoy golf glove marked CXL (extra large)

marked, tried on by Rubin, confirmed as extra large

Defense 1053-C

White Slazenger golf glove marked RXL (extra large)

marked, tried on by Rubin, confirmed as extra large

Informal

The Rockingham glove and Bundy glove (the evidence gloves)

discussed extensively regarding shrinkage, elasticity, and whether they could return to original size

Notable Exchanges (4)

Christopher Darden•Richard Rubin

Rubin reveals he conducted an experiment the previous night, placing leather gloves over latex gloves, and found it significantly harder than normal. Cochran objected on discovery grounds but was overruled.

strategic

Christopher Darden•Richard Rubin•Johnnie Cochran

Darden walks Rubin through all three golf gloves from Simpson's own bag. Each is confirmed to be extra large, not double extra large, while Cochran fires repeated foundation objections.

revealing

Christopher Darden•Richard Rubin

Rubin explains 'fat liquor' — the chemical added during tanning that gives leather gloves elasticity — and how liquid exposure leaches it out, causing permanent shrinkage of 10–15 percent when drenched.

procedural

Lance A. Ito•Christopher Darden

Ito cuts off Darden when he asks Rubin whether the liquid on the gloves was blood, noting Rubin is not qualified to make that determination.

procedural

Light Moments (2)

Lance A. Ito

Judge Ito asks Rubin to spell 'liquor' (as in 'fat liquor'), apparently surprised it is the same word as the beverage.

Christopher Darden

Darden asks Rubin if he wears gloves in the summer, then immediately self-corrects: 'You wear gloves in the summer — I mean, in the winter?'

Witness Demeanor

(Witness complies.) — steps down from witness stand to retrieve golf gloves from bag

(No audible response.) — brief pause when asked glove size before Darden redirects to brand identification

(Witness complies.) — tries on each of the three golf gloves

Objections

21 objections (8 sustained, 13 overruled)

Proceeding 6430 • 296 utterances • Prosecution witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103