📄 Direct examination of Dr. Lakshmanan Sathyavagiswaran (part 3) — Monday, June 12, 1995
Address:
C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\JUN\12\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-DR-LAKSH.DOC
TRIAL
▲ Day 93 of 167

Direct examination of Dr. Lakshmanan Sathyavagiswaran (part 3)

Witness: Dr. Lakshmanan Sathyavagiswaran
Examiner: Brian Kelberg
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Monday, June 12, 1995 • Utterances: 849
Prosecutor Brian Kelberg continued his direct examination of Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Lakshmanan, walking through highly detailed autopsy photographs and protocols documenting Ron Goldman's injuries. The testimony catalogued sharp force wounds to Goldman's neck, behind the right ear, to the temporal bone, and to the back of the head, plus blunt force trauma to the scalp, with Dr. Lakshmanan repeatedly noting that all wounds are consistent with a single-edged approximately 6-inch knife. Throughout, he acknowledged multiple omissions and at least one misclassification in Dr. Golden's original autopsy protocol while consistently maintaining these errors had no significance to the 'big ticket issues.'
1 MR. KELBERG:

Thank you, your Honor.

2 THE COURT:

All right. Mr. Kelberg.

3 MR. KELBERG:

Thank you, your Honor.

4 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, I think you mentioned that Dr. Golden addresses in his addendum this relationship between injury nos. 1 and 2 of G-40; is that correct?

5 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

6 MR. KELBERG:

And again, let's try another easel for a change in perspective. Could you step down and tell us where in the addendum Dr. Golden addresses those two particular injuries?

7 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

(the witness complies.) Page 3, no. 6. Starts as the last paragraph here, "Page 4, item 2, lines 1 and 2, and page 5, paragraph 1, amended as originally stated." It starts here (indicating).

8 MR. KELBERG:

All right. Now, were you pointing, doctor, under subpart 6 of page 3? And Dr. Golden starts, "There is a sharp force wound on the right side of the neck 3 inches directly below the external auditory canal." Is that injury no. 1 or injury no. 2 as we look at it?

9 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

That's injury no. 2.

10 MR. KELBERG:

If Mr. Lynch could hand me the markers again. I think they may be--thanks.

11 MR. KELBERG:

All right. And it goes down how far in its description of what is injury no. 2?

12 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Up to the last line--the line previous to the last line on the page.

13 MR. KELBERG:

And for that--for the record, your Honor, I'm going to outline in red that box of information. On the right-hand side, I'll write "G-40 inj. No. 2."

14 MR. KELBERG:

And then this paragraph continues, doctor, in what fashion?

15 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Page 4, no. 7 and 8.

16 MR. KELBERG:

Now, before we flip the page, has the sentence, "This wound connects," and let me underline the word connects, "With a sharp force wound on the right," and I'll underline that as well. Is this sharp force wound on the right what is described as injury no. 1?

17 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

18 MR. KELBERG:

So before we turn the page, I'll write a little arrow, "G-40 inj. No. 1." And now let me continue flipping the page.

19 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

And it goes on to say that right side of the neck 2 inches posterior, and it says that the wound is 2 inches in length, this all referring to injury no. 1 of G-40, and says that the posterior portion presents an incised wound 1 inch in length, which is that extension we've discussed, and the anterior end is rounded, and then he describes that it intersects, intersects with the transversely oriented incised wound of the front of the neck, which is injury no. 2 of G-37, injury no. 2 of G-37.

20 MR. KELBERG:

All right. Let me outline that just briefly in red on page 4 of the protocol 0G, and I'll write "G-37 inj. No. 2." Is that correct, doctor?

21 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

22 MR. KELBERG:

All right. Then Dr. Golden continues to describe?

23 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

There's fresh hemorrhage and bruising and no major artery or vein is severed or injured.

24 MR. KELBERG:

Now, doctor, does paragraph no. 8 or item 8 of this same page also refer to injuries 1 and 2?

25 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes. And also page 5 says, "Paragraph 2, delete" in the original protocol.

26 MR. KELBERG:

And is that a procedural thing for us? Mr. Lynch can put the protocol up on the other easel and flip to page 5.

27 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes. Reference to this (indicating).

28 MR. KELBERG:

I'm sorry, doctor. You've pointing to?

29 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

This is "There is fresh hemorrhage."

30 MR. KELBERG:

And that's going to be deleted pursuant to that entry that you just outlined in the addendum?

31 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

32 MR. KELBERG:

And then this opinion, is this the opinion that is being amended in essence?

33 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes. It's being amended in--as item 8 on page 4 of the addendum.

34 MR. KELBERG:

All right. Let me outline these two entries on page 5 of the protocol and at the side write, "Amended by addendum, page 4"?

35 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

36 MR. KELBERG:

And that's going to be items?

37 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

7 and 8.

38 MR. KELBERG:

I'll write "Items 7 and 8." Doctor, in your opinion, does the description provided in the addendum on pages 3 and 4 accurately describe those two injuries, injuries 1 and 2 of G-40?

39 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

40 MR. KELBERG:

And let me then write by boxing in blue on page 4 that this is G-40, and this is inj. No. 1; is that correct, doctor?

41 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

42 MR. KELBERG:

And then let me outline 7 and 8, and at the side, I'll write "G-40 inj. No. 1 and no. 2." Is that accurate?

43 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

44 MR. KELBERG:

And I'll just write a little red line, make a red line to separate it from the entry below that. Doctor, is that opinion expressed in item no. 8 in the addendum accurate in your judgment as to those two injuries, injuries 1 and 2?

45 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

46 MR. KELBERG:

Is there anything further with respect to the protocol or the addendum concerning injuries 1 and 2?

47 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

48 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, is a single-edged approximately 6-inch long knife consistent with inflicting both of those injuries?

49 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

50 MR. KELBERG:

While we have the charts up, there was one additional chart I did not ask you about.

51 MR. KELBERG:

This is on board 7G, your Honor.

52 THE COURT:

7G. Thank you.

53 MR. KELBERG:

And the previous--the addendum I think has been marked as 4--10G--excuse me--that we were looking at. Doctor, there's a form 24 page that is the first page of this particular board, and in the upper left-hand quadrant, there appears to be an entry made. What does this refer to?

54 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

This refers to the internal injuries which Dr. Golden saw. This is sharp force injury, neck. He says then transection of the left internal jugular vein and the left common carotid artery being intact. LCCA stands for that. And he says the right side is within normal limits and negative also in the front. There's no injury to the larynx.

55 MR. KELBERG:

The injury that he is describing in the upper left quadrant, is that injury no. 1 of G-37?

56 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

57 MR. KELBERG:

I'm sorry. Excuse me. Injury no. 3.

58 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

I'm sorry. Sorry. Injury no. 3 of G-37.

59 MR. KELBERG:

And injury no. 1 of G-51?

60 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

61 MR. KELBERG:

Let me outline all of that, and I'll "Write G-37 inj. No. 3" and "G-51 inj. No. 1." Now, doctor, what does the rest of this diagram refer to, "Within normal limits," "Negative" and so forth?

62 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Basically there's no injury to the larynx like we saw on Miss Brown Simpson.

63 MR. KELBERG:

Does that have some bearing on the depth of that particular penetration?

64 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

That would have one meaning to that, and also it shows that there's no injury to those structures.

65 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, would it be accurate to say that that wound that you described as the last sharp force injury inflicted on Nicole Brown Simpson seen in I believe B-13, 16 and 18 was a deeper wound than the wound that you described as a fatal wound, no. 3 of G-37, to Mr. Goldman's neck?

66 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

It's difficult to make that kind of judgment because in Miss Brown Simpson, the knife went across the neck up to the spine and there's no specific depth given, whereas for the wound on the left side of the neck of Mr. Goldman, at least a 4-inch track because it communicates with the left--behind the left ear. So it's difficult to make that kind of conclusion.

KEY QUOTE
67 MR. KELBERG:

Is there anything else about this diagram that you wish to talk about?

68 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No. It just emphasizes the internal injury on the left side and no vascular injury on the right side.

69 MR. KELBERG:

And that injury though is a fatal one in your judgment?

70 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

The left internal jugular vein injury? Yes.

KEY QUOTE
71 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, anything further about injuries 1 and 2 that we need to discuss?

72 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

73 MR. KELBERG:

We'll just leave the protocol up and ask you if we could to go back now to photograph G-40 and talk about, if you have not already, additional wounds or injuries you see in that photograph.

74 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

We have a sharp force injury to the back of the right side of the head. We have a sharp force injury to the--behind the right ear here (indicating). We have another sharp force injury just near the back of the right earlobe, and then there's an abrasion in the area of the skin between injury no. 1 of G-40 and the ear, which you can see here. And G-50 shows the injuries to the ear very much better, a closer photograph of the two sharp force injuries behind the right ear, and G-55 shows the same sharp force injury to the back of the right side of the head. Doesn't show the cuts behind the ear because it's--the ear being seen on the side, but it does show the abrasion in the skin between the injury no. 1 of G-40 and the ear.

75 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, let's see if we can talk about these individually. Have you numbered them again with respect to these photographs in some arbitrary fashion?

76 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes. I labeled this sharp force injury to the back side of the right side of the head as injury no. 3.

77 MR. KELBERG:

All right. Let's just stay with that. What is that sharp force injury?

78 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

It's caused by a knife. It's 5/8 inch long and it was situated to the right side of the back of the head.

79 MR. KELBERG:

If you'll keep your voice up, please, doctor. In your opinion, is this caused by a knife?

80 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

81 MR. KELBERG:

What kind of knife if you are able to offer an opinion?

82 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

It's a--it could be a single edge or a double edge.

83 MR. KELBERG:

Why are you unable to tell?

84 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Because it's an incised type wound and you can not tell the difference.

85 MR. KELBERG:

Is it still consistent with your 6-inch approximately long single-edged knife blade?

86 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

The tapering tip, yes.

87 MR. KELBERG:

Now, doctor, in your opinion, was that sharp force injury received before death?

88 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

89 MR. KELBERG:

How are you able to tell?

90 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Appearance as I discussed earlier and the color.

91 MR. KELBERG:

Are you able to tell the relative positions of Mr. Goldman and the perpetrator at the time that sharp force injury was inflicted?

92 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

93 MR. KELBERG:

Why not?

94 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Well, it could be inflicted if Mr. Goldman is ducking if the perpetrator was in the front. It could be if the perpetrator was in the back and cut Mr. Goldman in the back during the initial other wounds which are the back of the neck.

95 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, again using the ruler and myself to represent Mr. Goldman, can you demonstrate these alternatives you've just described in a general way?

96 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

97 MR. KELBERG:

Want to put down your pointer and your paper, and let's see if Mr. Lynch can put those on the table.

98 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

If it was in the back, it could be a cut like--a cut like this (demonstrating).

99 MR. KELBERG:

Now, are you talking about in your scenario with the control hold and the two superficial incised wounds? Is that about that time?

100 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes. And this cut could have occurred at the same time this cut occurred in the back of the ear (indicating). They are about the same level.

101 MR. KELBERG:

Which--I'm sorry. Which cut, which ear?

102 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Behind the right ear (indicating).

103 MR. KELBERG:

And you've pointed to photo G-40; is that correct?

104 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

105 MR. KELBERG:

And how could that cut have been inflicted with the perpetrator behind Mr. Goldman and this injury no. 3 to the head?

106 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

They could be separate cuts, but they could have been in the same force when--I mean the same motion which occurred.

107 MR. KELBERG:

How--how is that done with the same motion?

108 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

With the--there's been--as I told you, all the sharp injuries, sharp force injuries are due to a dynamic process. You have movement of the head and movement of the blade. And if--when the head--when the knife is in contact with the head or the head moves, you can also strike the right ear at the same time because the wound is right here in the back (indicating)--

109 MR. KELBERG:

I'm sorry. Would you turn around and show the ladies and gentlemen of the jury where that--and you're talking about this injury no. 3 in photo G-40 is where you are going to be pointing in a moment?

110 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes. It's right here, this region (indicating).

111 MR. KELBERG:

Your Honor, for the record, the witness has pointed to an area that is slightly above the top of his right ear and to the left of that approximately 2 inches.

112 THE COURT:

Yes.

113 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, is that accurate?

114 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Fairly.

115 MR. KELBERG:

How fairly is fairly?

116 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Well, I'm just pointing to my back of my head. So the picture is there and it's quite--

117 THE COURT:

It's self-explanatory.

118 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Self-explanatory.

119 MR. KELBERG:

Thank you.

120 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

And then there's another cut here (indicating). So this could have been--have occurred when the perpetrator is in the back, when the perpetrator was in the back of Mr. Goldman. And the other way it could have happened is if the perpetrator was from the front and wielding a knife, the head was tucked and trying to avoid the knife, cut--the back of the head could have been cut too.

121 MR. KELBERG:

Can you demonstrate--you tell me what to do to represent Mr. Goldman and you be the perpetrator--how that can be inflicted?

122 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

From wielding the knife like this and coming against you, and you bend your neck or bend your head downwards, you can cut the head like this right in the back (indicating).

123 MR. KELBERG:

Your Honor, for the record, facing me, Dr. Lakshmanan, with the ruler in his right hand, took several side-to-side motions as he was talking about wielding the knife. I ducked my head in a forward and downward direction. Dr. Lakshmanan with his right hand, holding the ruler, then came I believe with a somewhat overhead motion in the direction of the top of my head, and I felt some grazing of the ruler over the top of my head.

124 THE COURT:

Yes.

125 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Bottom line is, you can not really tell with definite certainty which kind of movements caused these type of wounds. But these are some possibilities which one could hypo--opine.

KEY QUOTE
126 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, would it be accurate to say that these alternatives that you've suggested are consistent with the physical findings that you can see from the photographs and the autopsy materials?

127 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

128 MR. KELBERG:

Your Honor, I believe we've lost some aspect of the microphone that goes here. So--

129 THE COURT:

I think it's just the wind cover.

130 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, do you need your pointer back?

131 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yeah. If I can have my pointer.

132 MR. KELBERG:

Now, doctor, again, not a fatal stab wound?

133 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

134 MR. KELBERG:

Is this also shown in another photograph that gives a closer perspective of that?

135 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

I think g--I think--I don't--

136 MR. KELBERG:

If I may have a moment.

137 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

I don't think we have it in evidence.

138 (Brief pause.)
139 MR. KELBERG:

Anything further about that particular sharp force injury?

140 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

141 MR. KELBERG:

By the way, is this process of exposing the injury part of the postmortem shaving that you described earlier?

142 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

143 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, is this injury, this sharp force injury no. 3 addressed in Dr. Golden's original protocol?

144 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes, he has.

145 MR. KELBERG:

Is it diagrammed anywhere?

146 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes, it has been.

147 MR. KELBERG:

Is it addressed anywhere in the addendum?

148 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

149 MR. KELBERG:

Need it be?

150 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

151 MR. KELBERG:

Anything further about that injury?

152 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Nothing.

153 MR. KELBERG:

Do you have an injury no. 4 of G-40?

154 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No. I only describe three injuries under G-40 and actually I describe the injuries in the--behind the ear in G-50, actually in G-50.

155 MR. KELBERG:

All right. The injuries behind the ears are more closely shown in photograph G-50?

156 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

157 MR. KELBERG:

Tell us about those. If you can start with some numerical designation and take us through your description.

158 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

The larger cut in the back of the right ear is injury no. 1 in G-50, it's about three-quarters of an inch in length, and the smaller wound in the right earlobe is quarter inch in length, and the ear has been--the photograph has been taken of the right ear in a close-up manner so the injuries can be perceived better.

159 MR. KELBERG:

The ear has been moved in some manipulation to expose this?

160 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

161 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, using my right ear, can you demonstrate what is being done to expose that area?

162 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Like this so that you can see the cut better behind the right ear and the earlobe (demonstrating). That's what's being done right here.

163 MR. KELBERG:

For the record, your Honor, the doctor with his right hand has pulled the large part of my right ear forward--in a forward direction.

164 MR. KELBERG:

Now, doctor, what kind of injury is injury no. 1?

165 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

It's a sharp force injury by a knife.

166 MR. KELBERG:

Are you able to determine from its appearance whether it is a single-edged knife or could be also from a doubled-edged knife?

167 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

I can not tell which one.

168 MR. KELBERG:

For the same reasons?

169 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

170 MR. KELBERG:

But still consistent with the hypothesized single-edge 6-inch long approximately knife blade?

171 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes, from the tapering turn.

172 MR. KELBERG:

Is this an antemortem injury?

173 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

174 MR. KELBERG:

How are you able to tell?

175 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

From the appearance and the coloration.

176 MR. KELBERG:

Does it play any significant role in any of the big ticket issues?

177 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

178 MR. KELBERG:

Anything further on that one?

179 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

180 MR. KELBERG:

Is it addressed by Dr. Golden in the protocol?

181 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

182 MR. KELBERG:

Described by him anywhere?

183 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Not diagrammatically.

184 MR. KELBERG:

And addressed anywhere in the addendum?

185 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

186 MR. KELBERG:

How about the next injury?

187 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

That's a smaller cut behind the right earlobe, and that's quarter inch in length.

188 MR. KELBERG:

Is that also due to a knife?

189 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

190 MR. KELBERG:

Would your answers be the same about single-edged, double-edged for that injury?

191 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

I can't tell.

192 MR. KELBERG:

For the same reasons?

193 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

194 MR. KELBERG:

Is that also an injury received before death?

195 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

196 MR. KELBERG:

And is that a separate injury from injury no. 1?

197 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

198 MR. KELBERG:

Does it play any significant role on any of the big ticket issues?

199 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

200 MR. KELBERG:

Is it addressed by Dr. Golden in the protocol?

201 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

202 MR. KELBERG:

Diagrammed by him?

203 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

204 MR. KELBERG:

Addressed by him in the addendum?

205 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

206 MR. KELBERG:

Would those be considered mistakes not to have described and diagrammed it?

207 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

208 MR. KELBERG:

They play any significant role in your judgment on these big ticket issues?

209 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

210 MR. KELBERG:

For the same reasons?

211 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

212 MR. KELBERG:

Any other injuries besides those two in G-50?

213 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

214 MR. KELBERG:

Now, doctor, you mentioned I think some other injuries in both 40 and 55, at least showing them to some degree, and I want to invite your attention, is there an injury in the area of the left--I'm sorry--of the right lower ear area?

215 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

216 MR. KELBERG:

And does that have possible significance with respect to either or both injuries 1 and 2 as shown in photo G-50, the ear injury?

217 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

It could have significance to the ear, to the injury behind the right earlobe, which is injury no. 2 of G-50. What we have here in the side of the head is a penetrating injury which went to the temporal bone, which is the bone underlying this area of the face (indicating).

218 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, if you could turn so everybody on the jury can see that.

219 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

This injury is right here in front of the right ear in the earlobe area (indicating) and--

220 MR. KELBERG:

For the--I'm sorry. For the record, your Honor, the doctor was pointing to an area above the bottom of his ear about a third of the way up towards the top of the ear and just adjacent to where the ear joins the face.

221 THE COURT:

Yes.

222 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

This injury goes for an inch deep into the--up to the bone.

223 MR. KELBERG:

How far, doctor? I'm sorry.

224 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

About an inch deep up to the temporal bone and stops there. So this injury no. 2 behind the right earlobe which is seen in G-50 could be related to this wound, but I can not exclude them from photograph as not being separate wounds.

225 MR. KELBERG:

What would you be able to do as the autopsy surgeon if anything which would have allowed you to determine whether in fact there is a relationship between this penetration to the temporal bone area and this injury no. 2 to the right ear?

226 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

You would see it communicate because what you're seeing is, because the wound goes through the earlobe like this (indicating)--

227 MR. KELBERG:

Could you turn--

228 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

And since this is a reflected portion of skin, you will see a cut on the inside because of the same penetration. So it could be related, but I can't tell from the photographs.

229 MR. KELBERG:

Does Dr. Golden describe that temporal bone penetration in his autopsy protocol?

230 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes, he does.

231 MR. KELBERG:

Does he describe it in a way which allows you to correlate, if there is a correlation to be made, that sharp force injury with this injury no. 2?

232 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No. His description basically gives the course in the body. I'm just giving an opinion based on the photographs, the location and my experience with such injuries.

233 MR. KELBERG:

Would it be accurate to say that Dr. Golden has not provided you with sufficient information to form an opinion as to whether a correlation exists between those two?

234 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

That's correct.

235 MR. KELBERG:

Does Dr. Golden address this injury and have you given it a number, and if so, which photograph?

236 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes. It will have been G-55. I gave it a number--

237 (Brief pause.)
238 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Let's see which one.

239 MR. KELBERG:

Photograph G-55, doctor.

240 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes. I can't find the number I gave it. But it's described in the protocol. I can't find the number for it, but it's in the protocol.

241 MR. KELBERG:

Can I just borrow your paperwork for one moment?

242 MR. KELBERG:

And I'm sorry, your Honor. May I have a moment?

243 THE COURT:

You may.

244 (Brief pause.)
245 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Injury no. 6.

246 MR. KELBERG:

So, doctor, what you've just been talking about is this penetrating sharp force injury to the temporal bone is described as injury no. 6 of G-55?

247 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

248 MR. KELBERG:

All right. And that sharp force injury, again, can't tell between single edge, double edge?

249 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

That's correct.

250 MR. KELBERG:

Same reasons?

251 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

252 MR. KELBERG:

Antemortem?

253 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

It's antemortem.

254 MR. KELBERG:

Same reasons?

255 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

256 MR. KELBERG:

Nonfatal?

257 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

That is correct.

258 MR. KELBERG:

Same reasons?

259 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

260 MR. KELBERG:

And--I'm sorry. Was this diagram by Dr. Golden?

261 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

262 MR. KELBERG:

Is it addressed in the addendum at all?

263 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

264 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, any other injuries on G-50?

265 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

266 MR. KELBERG:

And with respect to G-55, other than the injuries to the face, are there other injuries that you have not discussed at this point that are apparent in that photograph?

267 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

This faint abrasion which is seen both in G-40 and in G-55.

268 MR. KELBERG:

Would you point it out again? I'm sorry.

269 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

(indicating).

270 THE COURT:

Your Honor, the doctor on photo G-55 has pointed to an area that appears to be midway between the bottom of the right ear and the top of what has been marked as that injury no. 1, sharp force injury as seen in G-40.

271 THE COURT:

Yes.

272 MR. KELBERG:

What is that, doctor?

273 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

It's just a faint abrasion which is seen between the injury no. 1 of G-40 and the right ear. And there's no other sharp force injury in the skin in this area, but there's a sharp force injury which was described in the report.

274 MR. KELBERG:

Before we get to that, how are you able to determine that that is an abrasion rather than a sharp force injury?

275 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

By the same examination I did with the other injuries; use a magnifying glass, and you can see whether there's a split in the skin or not. And there's no split. There's only a scrape in the skin.

276 MR. KELBERG:

Do you have an opinion as to what source or sources could be responsible for that?

277 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

That's a non-specific blunt force injury and it could be from the plant material which we have discussed before which you see in the crime scene area, and could be one of those cut branches.

278 MR. KELBERG:

Does it have any significance to you on any of the big ticket issues?

279 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

280 MR. KELBERG:

Is this addressed by Dr. Golden in the protocol?

281 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

282 MR. KELBERG:

Is it diagrammed by him?

283 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

284 MR. KELBERG:

Is it addressed in the addendum?

285 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

286 MR. KELBERG:

Does Dr. Golden have some indication in the form of a diagram or something in the protocol or both for that area describing something that you do not see in these photographs; in particular G-40 and G-55?

287 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

He has described a cut there which is 3/4 of an inch long behind the right ear parallel to the sternomastoid muscle which is not seen in the photographs.

288 MR. KELBERG:

While we've got the photos up, which diagram did Dr. Golden use to show that particular--

289 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

I think it's 22-I or II I think.

290 MR. KELBERG:

Your Honor, this is board 4-G.

291 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Here (indicating). It's on 22-I.

292 MR. KELBERG:

All right. And, doctor, the location where Dr. Golden has made that what appears to be a vertical line--do you see that?

293 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

294 MR. KELBERG:

Is that the same location in general terms anatomically as the location where you see what you describe as an abrasion?

295 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

More of the same anatomical area.

296 MR. KELBERG:

Is it diagrammed though in the positional aspect the same as the abrasion appears in the photograph?

297 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

298 MR. KELBERG:

And the measurement--did you try and measure from the life-size photo that faint abrasion?

299 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes, I did. I got it as 1-1/8 inch in length.

300 MR. KELBERG:

And Dr. Golden describes a superficial cut as how long?

301 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Three-quarters of an inch.

302 MR. KELBERG:

In your opinion, doctor, can the process of photographic measurement account for the difference between your measurement and that of Dr. Golden?

303 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

To some extent, it can. But the injury you see is an abrasion and not a cut.

304 MR. KELBERG:

In your opinion, is it a mistake for Dr. Golden to have concluded, if he is looking at what you describe as this abrasion, to describe it as a cut?

305 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

306 MR. KELBERG:

Is it of any significance on any of the big ticket questions?

307 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

308 MR. KELBERG:

Your Honor, let me, if I could for the record, circle in red that area including the written entry on form 22-I, and I'll write g--

309 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

It's injury no. 7, G-55.

310 MR. KELBERG:

Let me write "G-55 inj. 7," but I'll write "Cut" in quotes rather than "Abrasion."

311 MR. KELBERG:

Any other diagram of that particular injury by Dr. Golden?

312 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

313 MR. KELBERG:

And does he include an description of this in the protocol?

314 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes, he does.

315 MR. KELBERG:

Where, doctor?

316 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

It's on page--it's on the page 4 or 5 I think of the main protocol.

317 MR. KELBERG:

4 or 5 of the main protocol?

318 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

319 MR. KELBERG:

Okay. Let's see if we can find it.

320 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Actually it's page 6. Page 6, no. 3.

321 MR. KELBERG:

I'm going to box that on page 6 of the protocol. I'll write "G-55." And this is inj. No. 6?

322 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes. No. 7 actually because we discussed no. 7--no. 7 is a faint abrasion in the--in the--so it would correspond in the protocol to injury no. 7.

323 MR. KELBERG:

I'm sorry. Injury no. 7, and I'll write "Cut" in quotation marks rather than "Abrasion." Is that accurate?

324 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

That's--that would be a correct statement.

325 MR. KELBERG:

Let me just make sure, doctor, that we have--yes. We have it correctly identified in form 22. Any significance to this description in your judgment and evaluating any of the big ticket issues?

326 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

327 MR. KELBERG:

But a mistake nonetheless?

KEY QUOTE
328 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

329 MR. KELBERG:

Anything further about this one?

330 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Nothing further.

331 MR. KELBERG:

All right. If we could put the photos back up then. Now, doctor, other than the faint abrasion, have we covered G-40--I'm sorry. With the faint abrasion, have we covered all the injuries in G-40?

332 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes, we have.

333 MR. KELBERG:

And in fact, injuries no. 1 and 2 that you've identified from G-50 are seen to some extent in photo G-40; is that accurate?

334 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

335 MR. KELBERG:

But the ear is in the normal position in G-40; is that correct?

336 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

That is correct.

337 MR. KELBERG:

All right. Anything further with respect to photograph G-50 as to any finding or injury?

338 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No, except that the facial injuries, some of them are seen here which we're going to discuss later.

339 MR. KELBERG:

Okay. Let me just finish then with--you described these as injuries 1 and 2 of G-50; is that correct?

340 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

341 MR. KELBERG:

And you indicated they were not addressed in the original protocol?

342 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

343 MR. KELBERG:

Or diagrammed; is that correct?

344 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

345 MR. KELBERG:

But they are addressed in the addendum?

346 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes. And the addendum page no. Is page 4, no. 11 and 12. Page 4, no. 11 and 12.

347 MR. KELBERG:

And on board--

348 MR. KELBERG:

I'm sorry, Mr. Lynch. 10G I believe.

349 MR. LYNCH:

10G.

350 MR. KELBERG:

Is this injury no. 1 and 12, no. 2?

351 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

352 MR. KELBERG:

Let me outline those. "inj. No. 1" and that's G-50?

353 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

354 MR. KELBERG:

And "G-50 inj. No. 2." Doctor, do each of these paragraphs actually describe in your opinion the nature of those two injuries of photograph G-50?

355 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

356 MR. KELBERG:

Is there anything further to discuss regarding the addendum and those two injuries?

357 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

358 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, before we get to the facial injuries--I'm--you wanted to point to something.

359 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No. We have not addressed this injury to the right ear, injury no. 6 in the protocol in the diagram.

360 MR. KELBERG:

All right. Let's take care of that. Where in the protocol, doctor?

361 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Injury no. 6 is on page--

362 MR. KELBERG:

That's the temporal bone?

363 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes. Page 6. It's on page 6, no. 1, this one here (indicating).

364 MR. KELBERG:

Do we have it up here already?

365 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes. And that's injury no. 6 of G-55.

366 MR. KELBERG:

Let me just outline that in red, "G-55 inj. No. 6." Doctor, in your opinion, does that entry actually describe that particular injury?

367 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

368 MR. KELBERG:

And is it your opinion that Dr. Golden's opinion that this is a nonfatal stab wound is accurate?

369 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

370 MR. KELBERG:

Now, where is it diagrammed?

371 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

It's diagrammed in 22-II.

372 MR. KELBERG:

Where is it diagrammed, doctor?

373 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Right here (indicating).

374 MR. KELBERG:

And what if any--I'm sorry. What if anything has Dr. Golden written concerning that particular injury?

375 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Says stab wound right here, lobe, one and a quarter inches right to left depth, and he has described the one-inch length and the forked ends, both ends, and he--the--he also indicates that the stab wound went from the ear to the temporal bone. So this whole description and this arrow here in the right side of the head would correspond to injury no. 6 of G-55 (indicating).

376 MR. KELBERG:

Let me outline that area that you've just pointed to, doctor?

377 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

378 MR. KELBERG:

And up in the upper left-hand corner, I'll write "G-55" and underneath that "inj. No. 6."

379 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

380 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, does that accurately in shorthand form diagram and describe that particular injury?

381 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

382 MR. KELBERG:

Anything further about that one?

383 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

384 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, are we done then with respect to all injuries on all of the photographs of our exhibit 358 with the exception of the facial injuries as seen in photographs G-55 and G-50?

385 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

386 MR. KELBERG:

Your Honor, I have another small board of photographs. May this be marked as exhibit 360? It appears to have a title "Sharp force injuries and blunt force trauma to head of Mr. Goldman."

387 THE COURT:

Yes.

388 (Peo's 360 for id = board of photos)
389 MR. KELBERG:

And, doctor, on this particular exhibit, we have two photographs, one of which appears to have the designation G-48 and another that has a designation of G-49. Can we start with G-49, the one to the right, and tell us what if anything of significance you see in that photograph.

390 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

G-49 is the back of the head of Mr. Goldman and shows a superficial quarter inch cut to the back of the head.

391 MR. KELBERG:

Now, where--first of all, using yourself--or why don't you use me. Would you point out where that area of the head is?

392 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Somewhere here in this region (indicating).

393 MR. KELBERG:

I'm sorry. If you'll--

394 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

(indicating).

395 MR. KELBERG:

And the doctor is pointing to what feels like slightly to the left of the midline of my head up near the top of my head.

396 THE COURT:

Near the top of your head?

397 MR. KELBERG:

Well, at least it feels that way. I don't know. Maybe I have a bad sense of--

398 THE COURT:

It looks towards the back of the head to me.

399 MR. KELBERG:

Okay.

400 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, where in relation--can you hold that pointer wherever you had it and also point to the injury to the back of the head or the head somewhere that's seen in G-40, injury no. 3 of G-40?

401 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

G-40 injury is somewhere here. The G-49 injury is somewhere here, this region (indicating).

402 MR. KELBERG:

And as long as we've got me in this position, do you see a second injury in G-49?

403 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes. You see it left of it and slightly to the front of it. In this region here, you have am abrasion contusion, which is a scrape (indicating).

404 MR. KELBERG:

And so those are the three injuries to the head in your review of the autopsy materials in Mr. Goldman that were identified?

405 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes. You have a cut to the back side of the right side of the head which you have discussed, a smaller cut now which I've just discussed here, and then you have abrasion contusion to the left side of the head, which is actually seen better in G-48.

406 MR. KELBERG:

Let's talk then first of all about the first injury that's seen in G-49 as you've described it. A sharp force injury that you described as a cut?

407 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

408 MR. KELBERG:

The type of instrument to inflict that kind of injury?

409 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

It could be a single-edged or a doubled-edged knife.

410 MR. KELBERG:

And again, the hypothetical, single edge, 6-inch long approximate blade would be consistent with doing that?

411 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yeah, the tip of it.

412 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, are you able to tell from that injury the relative positions of Mr. Goldman and the perpetrator at the time that injury was received?

413 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No, I will not be able to do that.

414 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, is it the same situation as you demonstrated with me regarding alternatives, for example, for the injury that's seen in G-40 to the head?

415 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

That's correct.

416 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, is this also an antemortem, that is before death injury?

417 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

418 MR. KELBERG:

For the same reasons?

419 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

420 MR. KELBERG:

Did Dr. Golden--excuse me--Dr. Golden address this in the protocol?

421 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes, he did.

422 MR. KELBERG:

Diagram it?

423 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes, he did.

424 MR. KELBERG:

In the addendum?

425 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes. No. No addendum.

426 MR. KELBERG:

Any reason it should be?

427 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No need to.

428 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, the--nonfatal I gather?

429 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes. Nonfatal.

430 MR. KELBERG:

The other injury--can you give us an orientation, G-48, what we're actually looking at there?

431 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

You're looking at the top of the left side of the head. You can see the nose here (indicating).

432 MR. KELBERG:

Okay. Just stop if you would, please. The nose is where, doctor?

433 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Here, in the lower part of the photograph here (indicating).

434 MR. KELBERG:

In the lower left corner, your Honor, of the photograph where the light color meets a border that appears to be a lightish blue color in the photograph.

435 THE COURT:

Yes.

436 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Then you can see the eyebrow here (indicating).

437 MR. KELBERG:

And the doctor has with the pointer made a horizontal tracing of a small area from the left margin of the skin towards the center of the skin area reflected or shown in that photograph.

438 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

You also see the hair in the top of the head falling on the forehead here (indicating).

439 MR. KELBERG:

And that area is where in the photograph--in the lower part of the photograph, the hair seems to end over the skin area; is that correct, doctor?

440 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes. And you can see the left earlobe here (indicating). I mean ear, not earlobe, portion of the upper part of the left ear on the right side of the photograph.

441 MR. KELBERG:

Left ear on the right side of the photograph?

442 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

That's correct.

443 MR. KELBERG:

And that is where the skin apparently comes photographically in contact with the hair below the injury that's shown in the center of the photograph; is that correct?

444 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes. And the injury is above the left ear on the left side of the top of the head. And to show it on my head, it will be somewhere in this region (indicating).

445 MR. KELBERG:

Again, on the left side, your Honor, and perhaps four inches above the top of the ear?

446 THE COURT:

Yes.

447 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, what kind of injury is that again?

448 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

That is a blunt force injury. It's an abrasion contusion. That is you have a scrape and underlying bruising of the skin.

449 MR. KELBERG:

And do you have an opinion as to the potential source or sources for that contusion abrasion?

450 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

It's a blunt force injury and could be from a rough surface. There are several areas in the crime scene photograph which could account for that.

451 MR. KELBERG:

We may come back to that then when we look at the other blunt force trauma injuries. Again, doctor, all of these injuries or both of these injuries in 49 and the one in 48 are made apparent due to shaving, postmortem shaving at the Coroner's office?

452 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

453 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, would your answers about nonfatal antemortem be the same for this contusion abrasion as they've been for the sharp force injury no. 1 of G-49?

454 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

455 MR. KELBERG:

Did Dr. Golden describe either of the injuries seen in 49 in the protocol?

456 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes, he did.

457 MR. KELBERG:

Both of them?

458 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

459 MR. KELBERG:

Did he diagram both of them?

460 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes, he did.

461 MR. KELBERG:

Does he address either of them in the addendum?

462 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

463 MR. KELBERG:

Any reason he should have?

464 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

He need not have because he has described them accurately.

465 MR. KELBERG:

The last thing about the abrasion contusion, is there anything about it which allows you to give an opinion concerning the relative positions of Mr. Goldman and the perpetrator at the time that injury was received?

466 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

I would not be able to give that--an opinion on that.

467 MR. KELBERG:

For the same reasons?

468 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

469 MR. KELBERG:

Anything further just about the photographs and what they show regarding those injuries?

470 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Nothing else.

471 MR. KELBERG:

If we can just identify in the diagram and the protocols where these two injuries to the head are addressed and diagrammed.

472 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes. The sharp force injury in G-49 is on page 7, no. 2.

473 MR. KELBERG:

And, doctor, how do you designate it? Again, these are the arbitrary designations numerically. Is the sharp force injury injury no. 1 of G-49?

474 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

475 MR. KELBERG:

And is the abrasion contusion injury no. 2 of G-49?

476 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

477 MR. KELBERG:

All right. So it's item no. 2 you said?

478 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

479 MR. KELBERG:

And that will be our injury no. 1 of G-49?

480 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes. Actually, we didn't give it a number for--in G-49 because we describe it separately in G-48.

481 MR. KELBERG:

So let's start, paragraph 2 here or item 2 is the sharp force injury of G-49?

482 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

483 MR. KELBERG:

Seen only in G-49?

484 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

485 MR. KELBERG:

I'll write "G-49." And then item 3 refers to what is seen in both G-49 and G-48?

486 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

487 MR. KELBERG:

And let me outline that including the opinion, and I'll write at the side "G-49" and "G-48." Doctor, in your opinion, are those descriptions by Dr. Golden of each of those injuries accurate?

488 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

489 MR. KELBERG:

And is his opinion that's expressed with respect to that contusion abrasion accurate?

490 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

491 MR. KELBERG:

And now, where is it diagrammed, either one of them?

492 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

20F.

493 MR. KELBERG:

20F?

494 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

495 (Brief pause.)
496 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, fill us in, if you would please, for each.

497 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

This is the cut, quarter-inch cut in the back of the head which is seen in G-49 and only seen in G-49. It says "Superficial skin cut, quarter-inch deep," and "No SGH" means no subgaleal hemorrhage.

498 MR. KELBERG:

What is subgaleal hemorrhage?

499 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

That is the deeper part of the scalp below the galea, G-A-L-E-A.

500 MR. KELBERG:

What is the significance if any of the observation that there is no such hemorrhage?

501 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

That would signify that this is a superficial cut and not a deep cut in the scalp.

502 MR. KELBERG:

What else if anything does Dr. Golden indicate concerning that particular sharp force injury?

503 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

That is it. This whole thing is G-49.

504 MR. KELBERG:

All right. Let me circle that area that you've just outlined in the lower right quadrant of form 20F from board 6G of our collective set 357, and I'll write "G-49" in blue.

505 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

And then we have the quarter-inch red brown abrasion with skin bruising showing the injury in G-48.

506 MR. KELBERG:

And that one is also seen in G-49?

507 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

508 MR. KELBERG:

All right. Let me outline that entire area. Doctor, does this word here that appears to be between the diagram of the abrasion and the circled area for the sharp force injury refer to that abrasion?

509 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

510 MR. KELBERG:

And what is that word if you can--

511 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Ovoid. It says ovoid, o-v-o-I-d.

512 MR. KELBERG:

What does ovoid mean?

513 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

That's oval shape, slightly oval shape.

514 MR. KELBERG:

And is that a reference to the form of the abrasion?

515 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

516 MR. KELBERG:

Let me outline this area in the same lower quadrant of 20F, and I'll write "G-48, G-49." Now, doctor, as long as we have this board up, there appears to be an additional entry with some handwriting in that same diagram. What does that refer to if anything?

517 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

That is the sharp force injury which we saw in G-40 or 55, the one in the back of the head.

518 MR. KELBERG:

Are you talking about injury no. 3, I think it's G-40?

519 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes. G-40.

520 MR. KELBERG:

Let me just get that board so you're certain.

521 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

That refers to injury in G-40, this one (indicating).

522 MR. KELBERG:

All right. What has Dr. Golden indicated and diagrammed?

523 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

He has indicated that it's a sharp force injury, right posterior parietal, back to front.

524 MR. KELBERG:

What does the back to front mean?

525 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

That is, the wound is traversing back to front.

526 MR. KELBERG:

From the back of the body to the front of the body?

527 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes. And it's a 5/8 inch cut. Depth is quarter-inch to 3/8 inch of the scalp. So this whole thing would reflect to sharp force injury no. 3 in G-40. I mean--G-40.

528 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, is this area where I'm pointing out a diagram of some form used by Dr. Golden concerning that injury no. 3?

529 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

530 MR. KELBERG:

And what is he intending to depict by that diagram?

531 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

He shows the higher magnification of the wound and he also describes a smaller cut in the upper margin there.

532 MR. KELBERG:

Let me outline that entire area in red, and I'll then write "G-40 inj. No. 3." Doctor, from your review of all the materials, are these three the three and only three injuries to the head of Mr. Goldman?

533 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

That is correct.

534 MR. KELBERG:

Anything further with respect to this diagram?

535 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Nothing further.

536 MR. KELBERG:

Let's take this down if we could and take the protocol down.

537 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

You have description here of the same injury if you want to--

538 MR. KELBERG:

Oh, okay. Sure. As long as we've got the page, why don't we finish this up. There is some reference in the autopsy protocol to that injury no. 3 of G-40?

539 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

540 MR. KELBERG:

Where is it?

541 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

It's right here, sharp force injuries of the scalp, the scalp is shaved postmortem, the whole no. 1 up to the "Opinion."

542 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, that description that is before the two lines for "Opinion," is that an accurate description of injury no. 3 of G-40?

543 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

544 MR. KELBERG:

Is the opinion that is offered there one which in your judgment an opinion is accurate?

545 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

546 MR. KELBERG:

All right. Let me circle that in red, and up at the left-hand border, I'll write "G-40 inj. No. 3." Is there anything further diagrammatically or in the protocol concerning any of these three head injuries?

547 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Not that I recall at this time.

548 MR. KELBERG:

Anything in the addendum regarding any of the three we have not discussed?

549 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

550 MR. KELBERG:

All right. Let's take this down then. And before we get to that one photograph with respect to the facial injuries, your Honor, I have another series of photographs that bears the title of "Blunt force trauma, sharp force injury and defensive wounds to the left arm, left and right hands of Mr. Goldman." May this be marked as exhibit 361?

551 THE COURT:

Yes. People's 361.

552 (Peo's 361 for id = board of photos)
553 (Brief pause.)
554 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, again, these are photographs that you have reviewed in the course of your examination of the autopsy materials?

555 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes. And I also reviewed one is to one photographs.

556 MR. KELBERG:

I was going to ask you, you reviewed the life-size photographs for each of these photos?

557 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes, I have.

558 MR. KELBERG:

And did you also see the photos in this dimension, but in an uncropped fashion? Obviously some of these have been cropped, narrowed and so forth to conform to the order of the Court.

559 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes, I have.

560 MR. KELBERG:

And also--

561 MR. KELBERG:

Your Honor, with this exhibit, I have two additional photographs which have designations on the back of the photographs. One is--has a "34" written on the back. And for the record, I'm going to write the letter "G" in the red on the back of that, and I would ask that that be marked as 361-A. And I will also write the designation of "Exh. 361-A" in the lower right-hand corner. And then I have a very small photograph that appears to show one hand and wrist area that has "G-25" written on the back, and I'll ask that this be marked as exhibit 361-B, and I'll write that same designation in the lower right-hand corner on the back of that photo.

562 THE COURT:

So marked.

563 (Peo's 361-A and B for id = 2 photographs)
564 THE COURT:

And I take it you've shown those to Mr. Shapiro?

565 MR. KELBERG:

Yes.

566 THE COURT:

All right.

567 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, I want to talk first of all about the hands as shown in a series of photographs, G-28, G-35, G-26, G-29 and G-32 as well as our two additional photographs.

568 MR. KELBERG:

And, your Honor, I don't know--does the court clerk have little pins that I might be able to use to stick these two photographs--

569 THE COURT:

Poster pins? Why don't you take some off of my bulletin board.

570 MR. KELBERG:

As long as we get into the discussion.

571 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, you talked last week about something called defensive wounds; is that correct?

572 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes, I did.

573 MR. KELBERG:

And in looking at all of these photographs of Mr. Goldman's hands, did you examine them in particular to look for evidence of defensive wounds?

574 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes, I did.

575 MR. KELBERG:

Did you find evidence of defensive wounds?

576 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes, I did.

577 MR. KELBERG:

Let's start if we could, please, with the right hand, and the photographs that appear to reflect or represent the right hand are on the right-hand end of this exhibit 361, G-35 and G-32; is that correct?

578 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

579 MR. KELBERG:

And also, this individual photograph which hopefully we will be able to put up alongside G-35 which is G-34; is that correct?

580 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

581 MR. KELBERG:

I think the clerk has--I'm sorry?

582 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
583 (Brief pause.)
584 MR. KELBERG:

Let's see which is better. We'll try the pins.

585 (Brief pause.)
586 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, let's start then with 35 and what is also 34. What are we looking at in those two photographs?

587 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

We have evidence of two sharp force injuries. One is a cut in the palm of the hand between the right middle finger and right index finger web. It's right in the base of those two fingers. That's one cut. The other cut is in the palm of the hand near the base of the right thumb, and this is called the--it's like a t-shaped wound here which--

588 MR. KELBERG:

I'm sorry. What shape, doctor?

589 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

A t or a y-shaped wound.

590 MR. KELBERG:

Y or t-shaped wound?

591 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

592 THE COURT:

Yes. No. 165, can you see that?

593 JUROR NO. 165:

Yes.

594 THE COURT:

All right. Thank you.

595 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

So you have two sharp force injuries, and what you see is--are we calling this G-30?

596 MR. KELBERG:

That is G-34. Let me get behind here and just prop it out a little bit so the ladies and gentlemen of the jury can see it.

597 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

G-34 shows the same sharp force injury which you see in the web here in a better manner because the fingers have been opened up so you can see the injury better and you can also see the characteristics of the wound.

598 MR. KELBERG:

Your Honor, Mr. Fairtlough tells me this is translucent on the part that extends. I don't think it causes any concern and the Court's indication conforms with mine. So we'll leave it as is.

599 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, in your opinion, are these two injuries--and by the way, have you designated them arbitrarily with numbers?

600 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yeah. I called the one to the web as injury no. 1 and I called the one to the base of the thumb as injury no. 2.

601 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, in your opinion, is each of those sharp force injuries what you would call a defensive wound?

602 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

603 MR. KELBERG:

In what manner in your opinion should they be considered defensive wounds?

604 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

They would be called as defensive wounds because the victim obviously kept his hand open and tried to grab the knife or tried to defend himself from a knife thrust which was being directed against some part of his body to prevent the knife striking the body. So one option could be that he tried to grab the knife or block the penetration, and the other--the other option is, without grabbing, just kind of blocking maneuver.

605 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, can you use the ruler, and you tell me what to do as if I'm Mr. Goldman. What is it that you have been talking about which would result in these kinds of defensive wounds?

606 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

See, one is a y-shaped wound at the base of the thumb. The other is a cut in the web between the index and middle finger (indicating). If you are Mr. Goldman, if the knife--

607 MR. KELBERG:

Why don't you demonstrate if you can, please, doctor.

608 MR. SHAPIRO:

Your Honor, we're going to object to this as being pure speculation.

609 THE COURT:

Overruled.

610 MR. KELBERG:

You may continue, doctor.

611 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

If I'm trying to stab you here, you bring your hand and try to hold the knife. You try to, but you won't be able to hold (demonstrating)--if you held the knife, you would have other cuts in the other fingers, and you don't have that. So it would be--though it could be a maneuver towards that, it would be most likely a blocking type of situation.

612 MR. KELBERG:

And as a blocking situation, how are those injuries inflicted?

613 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

With the knife tip cutting the skin here (indicating). The other option is, when the knife is being wielded, you could have a cut in the hand without it necessarily having been a puncture type wound.

614 MR. KELBERG:

And that would be injury no. 1 that you're talking about--

615 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

616 MR. KELBERG:

--as seen in both of the photographs G-35 and G-34?

617 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Both injury no. 1 and 2.

618 MR. KELBERG:

Now, doctor, from the appearance of injury no. 1, would you describe those besides being defensive wounds, as incised wounds?

619 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

620 MR. KELBERG:

In the sense that their depth is less than the length on the surface of the body?

621 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

622 MR. KELBERG:

As a result of being incised wounds, can you distinguish as to whether or not this is inflicted with a single-edged knife or a double-edged knife?

623 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

I can't.

624 MR. KELBERG:

But is it still your opinion that both of these are consistent with being inflicted with this hypothetical approximately 6-inch long blade single-edged knife?

625 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

With a tapering tip, yes.

626 MR. KELBERG:

And when you say "Tapering tip," meaning getting narrower at the tip of the knife?

627 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

628 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, in your opinion and as you've described, are both of those defensive wounds antemortem, that is inflicted before death?

629 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

630 MR. KELBERG:

Do either of them play any significant role in cause of death?

631 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

632 MR. KELBERG:

Or in any of the other big ticket questions that you've been talking about?

633 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

634 MR. KELBERG:

Can you tell from this information whether they were received at or about the same time, that is as part of the same thrust of the knife or whether they resulted from individual thrusts or wields of the knife?

635 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

I would favor individual thrusts.

636 MR. KELBERG:

Why is that, doctor?

637 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Because they're separate location, different appearance. And as I pointed out, if the knife was really held, I would expect to see more cuts in the other parts of the palm of the hand, which we don't have. We have two localized cuts to the palm of the hand, one near the base of the thumb and one near the web between the index and middle finger.

638 MR. KELBERG:

I'm sorry. Where in the photo would you expect to see these additional cuts if in fact the hand closed on the knife?

639 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

You would see it in other fingers.

640 MR. KELBERG:

Can you point out on the photograph?

641 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Depending on how the knife is held, you could have it in the palmar surface of these fingers, of this part of the thumb (indicating).

642 MR. KELBERG:

And for the record, your Honor, the doctor was indicating the middle finger.

643 MR. KELBERG:

And was it also the index finger, doctor, that you were pointing to?

644 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Index and middle finger of the thumb also.

645 MR. KELBERG:

All right. Anything further about those two defensive wounds regarding their nature?

646 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Nothing else specific that I can talk about at this point.

647 MR. KELBERG:

Did Dr. Golden describe them in the original protocol?

648 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes, he did.

649 MR. KELBERG:

Did he diagram either of them?

650 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes, he did.

651 MR. KELBERG:

Both of them?

652 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

653 MR. KELBERG:

Is either addressed in the addendum?

654 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

655 MR. KELBERG:

Any reason they should have been?

656 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

They need not have been addressed because they have been described fairly accurate.

657 MR. KELBERG:

I'm sorry. Fairly accurate?

658 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

I mean accurate.

659 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, are there any additional injuries you see to the palm area of the right hand as seen in either of those two photographs, G-35 or G-34?

660 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

661 MR. KELBERG:

Anything further you wish to discuss at this point regarding those two photographs?

662 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

663 MR. KELBERG:

Then let's move if we could, doctor, to the bottom photograph, G-32, the right wrist, the hand. And this is showing now the back of the hand and the wrist; is that correct?

664 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

665 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, do there appear to be a number of findings in that photograph?

666 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

667 MR. KELBERG:

Had you numbered these findings again arbitrarily by injury nos. 1 through whatever?

668 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

669 MR. KELBERG:

And what's the whatever end?

670 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

I numbered them starting from the abrasion here and I numbered them through no. 12.

671 MR. KELBERG:

Why don't you take us through just a generalized overview of what each of the injuries you see in that hand depiction, wrist depiction of photograph G-32 shows.

672 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

You have an abrasion to the ulnar aspect of the right wrist. You have an abrasion to the back of the right wrist here (indicating). You have a contusion, a bruising of the knuckle of the base of the right middle finger. You have a linear abrasion in the dorsum of the proximal portion of the base of the right index finger.

673 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, that's a mouthful. Dorsum is still the back?

674 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes. Back of the right index finger.

675 MR. KELBERG:

And in lay terms, the location is?

676 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Near the base of the right index finger.

677 MR. KELBERG:

Okay.

678 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

You also have a small abrasion adjacent to it. You have a contusion in the outer--I mean the ulnar aspect of the index finger near the abrasion I just described. There's also a scraping of the nail evident on the index finger. In the middle finger, you have an abrasion and contusion in the proximal interphalangeal area. See, each finger has three small pieces of bone called the phalanges, and this is located in the joint between the first and second phalanges here and the middle finger.

679 MR. KELBERG:

Can you point that out for the ladies and gentlemen of the jury so they will be able to see, doctor? You want to do it with my hand? And I've got a few ink stains on it, but--

680 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

This is the index finger. You see the abrasion right here. You have an abra--you have a contusion in this aspect of the index finger, and on the middle finger, you have an abrasion here, and this overlies a contusion (indicating). And what I meant by phalanges are 1, 2 and 3, the three bones in the finger, and the joints are the interphalangeal joints. So what you have here is a scrape and bruising of the back of the proximal interphalangeal joint.

681 MR. KELBERG:

"Proximal" is just a fancy way of saying it's the part that's closer to the hand itself?

682 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

That's correct.

683 MR. KELBERG:

And "Distal" is the opposite, meaning it's further away?

684 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

685 MR. KELBERG:

Okay.

686 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

And of course, you do have a scraping of the nail here which is seen in the photograph. Then just under this abrasion bruise, you also have a smaller abrasion in the back of the right middle finger (indicating). The right ring finger shows a similar abrasion contusion over the proximal phalanx, same area as the middle finger, and you have a smaller abrasion here in the proximal interphalangeal joint of the middle finger. So you have several areas of blunt force injury to the back of the hand. And I've already described the other injuries in the wrist area. And I've now put them arbitrarily as 1 through 12 and so that we can correlate the description of these injuries with the diagram and the protocol and--

687 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, is each of injuries 1 through 12 an injury that in your opinion was received before death?

688 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

689 MR. KELBERG:

All antemortem?

690 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

691 MR. KELBERG:

And all the result of blunt force trauma?

692 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

693 MR. KELBERG:

Are any of them in your opinion significant on the issue of cause of death?

694 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

695 MR. KELBERG:

Are any of them of significance to you in the area of defensive action by Mr. Goldman to avoid his attacker?

696 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes. He was trying to back away from the wielding knife.

697 MR. KELBERG:

What leads you to form an opinion that what is shown in that photograph regarding the back of the hand indicates that Mr. Goldman was trying to back away from an attacker who was coming at him with a wielding knife, as you indicated for the record, with a side-to-side motion in front of your body?

698 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Because of the nature of the appearance of the injuries. The abrasion contusions would indicate that this hand--there are two issues here. One, you don't see any cuts in the back of the hand. The cuts are all on the front of the right side of the hand.

699 MR. KELBERG:

What's the significance of that?

700 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

That means the back of the hand was not coming in contact with the sharp force like the front of the hand. And that would also--and also, the back of the hand shows blunt force injuries, which are abrasion contusions, which can be explained by the surroundings which you can--which we saw in the crime scene photographs. There are certain of the surroundings that can account for these types of injuries.

701 MR. KELBERG:

We're going to break this down a bit if we could, doctor. First of all, in saying that you see no cuts to the back of the hand and you see the two defensive wounds to the palm surface of the hand, is that of significance to you in evaluating whether Mr. Goldman ever closed his hand into a fist as if to deliver a punch to his assailant?

702 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

It would favor my opinion that the hand was probably kept open rather than clenched because if he had kept the hand clenched, he would have got some cuts in the back of the hand, which I don't see here in the photographs or the description.

703 MR. KELBERG:

Why would you have expected the back of the hand to show cuts if in fact Mr. Goldman had closed his hand into a fist in an effort to deliver a blow to his assailant?

704 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

One, he'll be getting closer to the assailant who is having a wielding knife, which is obvious from the sharp force injuries, and would have resulted in cuts to the back of the hand too because he will be more in a proximal or a closer situation to the assailant.

705 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, would it be accurate, if I take on the role of Mr. Goldman and you're the knife-wielding assailant, in your experience, is the normal human reaction to attempt to avoid the wielding knife?

706 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

707 MR. KELBERG:

If someone attempts to deliver a blow by use of a fist to the perpetrator in a manner such as I'm doing now with my right hand closed in a fist, your Honor, and approaching Dr. Lakshmanan, representing the assailant (indicating), would that take me further away from danger or in your opinion bring me closer to the danger?

708 MR. SHAPIRO:

Objection. Calls for speculation.

709 THE COURT:

Overruled.

710 MR. KELBERG:

You may answer the question.

711 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

It would bring me--it would bring the--you closer to danger because I'm wielding a knife like this (indicating), and if you bring your closed fist towards me, you're going to get cuts in your forearms, back of the hand, depending on where the knife is in location to the moving arm of yours.

712 MR. KELBERG:

And for the record, your Honor, I moved forward again as I indicated before, but Dr. Lakshmanan moved closer to me with his right hand extended again waving in a side-to-side manner as if wielding a knife.

713 THE COURT:

Yes.

714 MR. KELBERG:

And, doctor, that is one of the bases for your opinion that Mr. Goldman did not in fact close his hand into a fist to deliver a punch to the assailant; is that correct?

715 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

That is no. 1. And no. 2, also, the appearance of the injuries which you see, if you take them in collectively and also individually, especially the injuries to the back of the knuckles, they all have abrasion contusions, which would favor a blunt force which has a rough surface. And we have certain structures in the environment in Bundy which will explain these injuries which would be more consistent with an open hand trying to avoid a knife and backing of and striking the structures rather than a closed hand attacking the assailant with a wielding knife.

716 MR. KELBERG:

And I'm going to get the photographs out of the environmental surroundings. But, doctor, in your review of this material before testifying, did you review, among other pieces of information, literature from a sports medicine textbook concerning boxing injuries to the hand?

717 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

I just looked at what kind of injuries seen in boxing and I did review some information on that.

718 MR. KELBERG:

Was that information of any significance to you along with these other matters you've already described in assessing whether the grouping or pattern of injuries or absence of injuries in certain locations supported your opinion that Mr. Goldman did not close his fist--did not close his hand into a fist in an effort to deliver a blow to the perpetrator?

719 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

That supported my opinion--

720 MR. KELBERG:

Why is that?

721 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Because if you have a closed fist and this was--let's assume this bruise which is in the knuckle was from a closed fist--I've already explained there are no cuts on the back of the hand--and this bruise in a closed fist was the result of Mr. Goldman closing his fist and trying to give a punch. The problem is, you don't have other injuries in the adjoining knuckles, because usually in a closed fist type of boxing situation, you'll have other knuckles also affected, which is not present, no. 1. And no. 2, the injuries here, the abrasion contusions do not fit that kind of scenario because this kind of abrasion contusion you get more with a rough surface like the--one of the items which comes right staring at my face is the bark of the tree which you have there, which is in an enclosed environment I discussed on Friday or Thursday I think, the enclosed space in which this attack did take place.

722 MR. KELBERG:

Let me invite your attention then to the board of photographs.

723 MR. KELBERG:

I think we've already had this marked, your Honor, as exhibit 359 I believe. 349. Excuse me.

724 (Brief pause.)
725 MR. KELBERG:

Now, doctor, we've left the photograph of the back of the hand so that everyone can follow your explanation. Would you show us what it is about the environmental surroundings of Mr. Goldman's body that in your opinion correlates with the nature of the abrasion contusions to the back of the hand?

726 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

For that, once you go back to this environment we have, we have the tree here. We have this sapling to support wooden--I think it's a wooden support beam here which supports this plant (indicating). There's not much distance between all these structures. The tree and the side railing you see in the back here, there's only about within a foot, and the tree stump you see here is also pretty close to this tree. There's not much distance between the sapling and this tree nor is there much distance--actually, from this side railing to the walkway, which is a little more on this side of crime scene 1, is only about a couple of feet. So what I'm trying to say is, if Mr. Goldman was--assuming the hypothetical, was situated right between the sapling and the tree and you have somebody wielding a knife and you're backing off, your hand is going to be banging against this rough surface. And if you--I ran my hand myself along the bark of this tree. It's pretty rough. At the same time, it's a hard surface, and I would expect to see these kind of abrasions contusions can occur from that kind of blunt force with an open hand striking that kind of environment in my opinion.

727 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, in your opinion, is the human body the kind of rough surface that would result in not just a contusion, but an abrasion contusion to the part of the fist or hand in contact with the human body as the blow is delivered?

728 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Not this type of abrasion contusion. And you won't get an abrasion. You'll get more of a contusion when you strike a human body.

729 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, is the location of the abrasion within each of the contusions of significance to you?

730 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes. They seem to be localized in the center of the contusion which would go along with this kind of environment (indicating) rather than what you just also brought up in your hypothetical.

731 MR. KELBERG:

When you say "In the center of the contusion," would that be the area that is in the direct contact with whatever the rough surface is that the hand is coming in contact with?

732 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes. Like in the bark of the tree, there are uneven elevations and depressions. So the abrasion would be caused by the rough elevated areas of the bark rather than the depressed areas of the bark.

733 MR. KELBERG:

Now, doctor, I think you indicate--you may have misspoken one word, but did you run your hand, the palm of your hand over the surface of the tree shown in S1?

734 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes, I did.

735 MR. KELBERG:

Did you also run your hand over the surface of the sapling shown in CS1, both of the same exhibit board 349?

736 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes, I did. And I also ran my hand over the--each of the--some of these bars here. You do have some irregularities. Even though it's a painted smooth type of metal railing, there are irregularities of the surface either due to dirt when the metal was painted or whatever the reason, there are some irregularities, and that would explain an injury which I have later in the left hand when we discuss it.

737 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, are there also smooth areas of those bars?

738 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes, there are.

739 MR. KELBERG:

If the hand like the right hand that shows the contusion--would you point to the one that's just a contusion without an abrasion?

740 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

That is the knuckle over the middle finger right here (indicating).

741 MR. KELBERG:

And does that have an injury number just so we can--

742 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes. The injury number for that is no. 3 of G-32. It's over the right middle finger. I gave it injury no. 3 of G-32.

743 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, is that a contusion which in your judgment could be caused by Mr. Goldman, in flailing back with his right hand, that hand coming in contact with a smooth area of one of those bars?

744 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

It could very well be.

745 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor--

746 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

One more point you want to make is, then the question that can arise is, why didn't the rest of the finger get contusion? You have space between the bar. There is about a 4- or 5-inch space between the bar. So what I'm trying to drive at is, even though the hand is coming into contact with a particular bar, the rest of the hand need not have come in contact with the next bar. There's a couple of inches between each of those bars. I think it's about 4-1/2 inches between each of those bars if you go and measure approximately.

747 MR. KELBERG:

And did you do that, doctor, when you were there?

748 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes. Yes, I did.

749 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, is that therefore the pattern, if you will? Looking at all of these injuries to the back of the hand, in your judgment, is that grouping of injuries then consistent with this flailing, backing away from the attacker rather than an effort by Mr. Goldman to throw a punch in the direction of the assailant coming towards him with a knife?

750 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

That is correct. And of course, my--one of the strongest reinforcing--reinforcing points is the cuts being to the palm of the hand, which would indicate that the hand was probably kept open and not closed, because I don't see any cuts in both of the hands like the ones you see in the palm of the hands in both the hands.

751 MR. KELBERG:

You don't see cuts on the back of the hand?

752 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

753 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, and is that consistent with your experience of what would be the expected defensive reaction on the part of a human being who is facing an impending assault with a knife-wielding assailant?

754 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

That is correct.

755 MR. KELBERG:

Is there anything else for our present purposes that we need to describe with these photographs, the crime scene photographs and the injuries as seen to the right hand, the back of the right hand in photograph G-42?

756 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

757 MR. KELBERG:

Let me put this board back then. I think before we go into the protocols and so forth, doctor, why don't we finish with the left hand and cover then all of the injuries if we can or as much as possible before we quit for the end of the day the hands before we then go to the protocols and diagrams and so forth. So can we start then with the left-hand? Photos we have appear to be G-28, G-29, G-26 and G-25, which I'm going to pin between photos G-26 and G-29 on the board. Let's start if we could, doctor, with 28 and 29. What do each of these photographs show?

758 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

28 shows the palm of the left hand and you also see a portion of the thumb. The principal injuries you see in G-28 are a cut to the palm of the hand near the base of the little finger, a cut to the base of the thumb. You also see an abrasion to the tip of the thumb and you also see a linear abrasion to the base of the thumb here. And these are the principal injuries you can see in G-28 photograph.

759 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, have you numbered these again arbitrarily?

760 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes, I have. And we can go into details if you want now or later.

761 MR. KELBERG:

Why don't we do that later. I just want to be sure. You've numbered these four injuries arbitrarily 1 through 4?

762 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

1 through 3, and I've described the--this injury near the base of the little finger under G-29 (indicating).

763 MR. KELBERG:

All right. And that's our next photograph.

764 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

765 MR. KELBERG:

Why don't we then have you discuss, if you would, please, the findings of that photograph.

766 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

G-29 shows a portion of the sharp force injury to the base of the thumb, which is a cut, and you see the cut to the base of the--into the palm near the base of the little finger, but you also see abrasions to the front of the little finger here and the middle finger in its distal aspect, that is the part of the middle finger away from the hand. So these are non-specific blunt force type injuries and this is a sharp force injury here (indicating).

767 MR. KELBERG:

Where is that, doctor?

768 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

The one to the palm of the hand at the base of the little finger.

769 MR. KELBERG:

Is that a description in general terms, doctor, of all of the findings of photograph G-29?

770 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

771 MR. KELBERG:

Now, doctor, taking these two photographs together, would you describe all of these injuries as evidence of defensive wounds?

772 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

773 MR. KELBERG:

Are they of significance to you, their location and appearance, in forming an opinion as to how they may have been received?

774 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes. The--the--the palmar cuts could be the same way the palmar cuts of the right hand. You have a cut to the palm of the left hand here and the base of the thumb, which could be the same mechanisms I described by the hand being used to avoid a penetrating thrust to a part of the body. Could be from the wielding of the hand being interposed to protect the body against the wielding knife. There are numerous other ways it can happen, but I just gave you some examples. And the abrasion itself, this abrasion is on the little finger is--looks as though the abrasion, the skin has been peeled off or shaved off in a superficial part. And this could be from just scraping of the finger against a rough surface, but it could also be scraping of the finger against the blunt edge of a knife.

775 MR. KELBERG:

How does that happen, doctor?

776 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Because if a blunt end of the knife is scraped against the skin, you can get this kind of linear scraping of the skin with a peeling of a flap. But it could be from other mechanisms like rubbing against a rough surface with the skin being peeled off in that manner.

777 MR. KELBERG:

Would the ground be considered a rough surface?

778 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

It could be.

779 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, if it is a blunt end of a knife, would that mean a single-edged knife?

780 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes. Especially if we take this in conjunction with this cut to the hand, there could be an attempt at the grabbing of the knife at this point like this (indicating).

781 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, could you use the ruler--it's to your left--and demonstrate either using my hand or yours? And if you'll face the ladies and gentlemen of the jury so they can see.

782 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Like this with the blunt edge here and the sharp edge cutting like this, and you're trying to get it, and you can get the scraping of the skin that way (demonstrating).

783 MR. KELBERG:

Your Honor--

784 MR. KELBERG:

Could you do that slowly, doctor, hold--

785 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

(demonstrating).

786 MR. KELBERG:

The doctor with his right hand has placed about the upper 2 inches of the ruler where it appears to be near the area of the ring and little finger of his left hand with those two fingers curled somewhat, but not curled around the ruler.

787 MR. KELBERG:

And then, doctor, what did you do?

788 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

The other thing is, the knife is also turning and the skin gets scraped like this, and that's why you're getting the peeling of the skin here, here (indicating).

789 MR. KELBERG:

And for the record, the doctor turned the knife so that the edge in contact with those two fingers was coming or rubbing or scraping, whatever the term may be, across those two fingers as it has been coming free from the area of the hand.

790 THE COURT:

Yes.

791 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

This is one way it could have been caused.

792 MR. KELBERG:

Now, doctor, in your opinion, from observing all of these--these two photographs and reviewing any material, in your opinion, were all of these defensive wounds received before death?

793 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

794 MR. KELBERG:

Do any of them play any significance on the issue of cause of death?

795 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

796 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, given the nature of that, those findings of defensive wounds, do you have an opinion as to whether Mr. Goldman closed his left hand in a fist-like action as if to deliver a blow?

797 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

For the same reasons I gave before. If you look at the back of the hand in G-26--should we describe them briefly or--

798 MR. KELBERG:

All right. Why don't we do that.

799 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yeah. In G-26, is the back of the left hand, you have an abrasion of the left lower forearm. You have a contusion of the base of the left hand here (indicating). But what is important is, you have a punctate, small abrasion middle of the contusion. And this important to remember. There's a linear abrasion here. And the back of the left hand shows an abrasion to the knuckle of the middle finger, an abrasion injury to the base of the index finger, an abrasion contusion to the proximal joint, interphalangeal joint of the index finger here, and there's a smaller abrasion distal to it. And if you look at the back of the left hand, you don't see any cuts. Just like the one in the right hand, you don't see any cuts. The only cuts are to the front of the hand, which again favors an opinion that the hand was probably not clenched or only the front of the hand came in contact with the knife. And the injuries again here (indicating) are non-specific blunt force trauma which can be explained by the environment, which would favor an open hand flailing away against a wielding knife and hitting those objects which I just described in crime scene photographs.

800 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, I was going to ask you, are those same findings, the rough surface of the tree, the rough surface of some of the bars and so forth, the sapling and the support stake for the sapling, are those the kinds of items which in your opinion are consistent with Mr. Goldman's back of his left hand in a flailing action coming in contact with, resulting in these blunt force trauma injuries?

801 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

That would be my opinion.

802 MR. KELBERG:

Now, doctor, is the location--you mentioned this contusion on photograph G-26 near the area where the hand joins the wrist as having a punctate abrasion on it. Is the location of that contusion of some significance in forming an opinion as to whether it was caused by a striking action, that is the fist being clenched to deliver a blow?

803 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

The location is more towards the wrist area, but the appearance of the injuries would be more consistent with hitting against a blunt smooth surfaced object with a rough random irregularity like in the metal bar, which I felt the surface, you have certain areas that could be rough, but mostly smooth. And one of the elevations of such a bar could have caused the injury. I'm not saying that's what happened, but that's one of the possibilities rather than the wrist coming in contact through a closed fist causing a punch, because if you throw a punch, you'll get the injuries more to the back of the phalanges and knuckles rather than the wrist unless it was an improperly thrown punch.

804 MR. KELBERG:

Do you see--

805 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

And then you can't explain the abrasion there.

806 MR. KELBERG:

You cannot explain the abrasion?

807 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

By that scenario.

808 MR. KELBERG:

The human body doesn't have that kind of rough surface that would translate into a punctate abrasion on top of the contusion?

809 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

That's correct.

810 MR. KELBERG:

And, doctor, would it also be your opinion--based upon what you told us a moment ago regarding the unnatural aspect of a victim throwing a punch to bring the victim closer to an attacking--a knife-wielding assailant, would your answers be the same as to why in your opinion Mr. Goldman did not have his left hand clenched in a fist to throw a punch?

811 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

That would be my opinion for the various reasons I've already discussed. But one of the important things is, you have cuts in the front of the hand and you don't have any cuts on the back of the hand. And to me, that is significant.

812 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, are you able to tell from reviewing all of these hand photographs as to the relative positions of Mr. Goldman and the attacker? And by that, I mean, for example, can you tell whether Mr. Goldman was seated and basically flailing backwards in a seated position or standing and flailing backwards? Are you able to make that determination?

813 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

It will be difficult for me to opine on that, but I would favor that probably this was when he was mobile and able to move his extremities.

814 MR. KELBERG:

Okay. Mobile meaning?

815 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Standing up at some point during the assault.

816 MR. KELBERG:

And moving his extremities, referring to his arms?

817 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

818 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, let me get another photograph. I think we have enough team to touch upon it.

819 MR. KELBERG:

And, your Honor, I have another board. May this be marked--oh, I'm sorry. I don't need it. I'm sorry. It's on this board. It's photograph G-20.

820 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

821 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, do you see something in photograph G-20 above the blue photographic identification card that is of any significance to you?

822 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes. You have a smaller abrasion, and in front of it, there's an interrupted intact skin area, and in front of that, you have a triangular abrasion. By the way, the photograph shows the front of the body. On the left side of the photograph, you can see the nipple there.

823 MR. KELBERG:

Nipple of the breast?

824 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes. And the triangular abrasion base is facing the front, and you have another area of abrasion in front of the triangular abrasion. There's another area of intact skin between these two. And so you have three non-specific areas of abrasion injury. You also have a faint abrasion above it in this--running in a horizontal axis, on a side-to-side axis of the photograph in the left arm, and you also have a smaller abrasion near the left elbow area.

825 MR. KELBERG:

I would like to focus if we could on this interrupted group of abrasions you talked about. First of all, can you point on your left arm in general where is that area on Mr. Goldman's arm?

826 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

It is somewhere in this region here (indicating).

827 MR. KELBERG:

For the record, your Honor, Dr. Lakshmanan is pointing to an area, appears to be halfway between the shoulder and the elbow and towards the--about the middle between the front and the back of the body.

828 THE COURT:

Typical tattoo location.

829 MR. KELBERG:

I'll take your word on that, your Honor.

830 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, you have looked at--

831 MR. KELBERG:

If we could have the environmental photos back, please. Let me see if I can hold it over here this time. With the Court's permission, can I sit on counsel table?

832 THE COURT:

Certainly.

833 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, you have examined, have you not, in your visits to the Bundy location the sapling and the support stake that are seen in photograph CS1?

834 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes, I have.

835 MR. KELBERG:

And, doctor, did you also examine Mr. Goldman's shirt that he was wearing at the time his body was found?

836 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes, I did.

837 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, and does that shirt and the sapling and the support stake have any significance to you in evaluating what you've described as this interrupted area of abrasion seen in photograph G-20?

838 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

There are two issues here. One is, you have an--you have an intermediate object, the clothing, between the area in contact, if that was the area of contact which caused this injury and the skin surface. So you won't have a pattern of the object--

839 MR. KELBERG:

Turn so--

840 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

You won't have the pattern of the object which caused the injury on the skin surface because the clothing is interspersed between the object and the skin. The second factor is, there is a space, interrupted skin space there. And if you look at the sapling of the support beam, there is an area between the two because the support beam or stake holds the sapling upright. So one way this injury could have been caused is if the hand put the shirt on its surface, had come in contact with that area causing an abrasion. It's not an abrasion contusion. It's mainly an abrasion injury. So you don't necessarily have force because if it was force, then it's just a scrape on the area.

841 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, if Mr. Goldman either backed into that area where his left arm in that area shown in the photograph came in contact or if he somehow was pushed into that area such that that part of his left arm came in contact with the space between the sapling and the support stake, would that in your opinion be consistent with the resulting interrupted abrasion pattern we see in photograph G-20?

842 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

That could be one explanation for it if that's what happened.

843 MR. KELBERG:

And, doctor, is there anything about the appearance of that interrupted area of abrasions which allows you to be more specific as to potential manners in which that could have been received?

844 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

This would be one possible scenario of how this happened, especially with the interrupted intact skin which would be explained by the space between the stake and the plant. But of course, you should realize that you also have clothing which can also fold when this happens. But there's no specific pattern to the injury which can say with absolute certainty, that's how--that's what caused it, but I would favor that scenario more than other scenarios there.

845 MR. KELBERG:

And, doctor, finally before I believe we're going to end the day, can you exclude that that is due to a blow struck by the perpetrator, either a fist to the perpetrator or a rounded end of the knife?

846 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

I couldn't exclude it, but the problem is, you have these areas of intact skin there which, if caused by the folding of the clothing, would leave more of a pattern. But I would favor more an object of this nature because it's only a scrape, because if it's a blow of the knife, you would expect also a lot of bruising there like we saw in the scalp contusion in Nicole because there would also be crushing injury, which you don't have here. It's only a scrape in the skin.

847 MR. KELBERG:

And absent that bruising, does that suggest to you that in fact that was not the cause?

848 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

849 MR. KELBERG:

Your Honor, would this be a convenient time for the break?

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Dr. Lakshmanan Sathyavagiswaran
Bottom line is, you can not really tell with definite certainty which kind of movements caused these type of wounds. But these are some possibilities which one could hypo--opine.
Concedes the limits of forensic reconstruction, undercutting any definitive narrative about the sequence or positions during the attack.
Dr. Lakshmanan Sathyavagiswaran
It's difficult to make that kind of judgment because in Miss Brown Simpson, the knife went across the neck up to the spine and there's no specific depth given, whereas for the wound on the left side of the neck of Mr. Goldman, at least a 4-inch track because it communicates with the left--behind the left ear.
Draws a direct anatomical comparison between the two victims' fatal neck wounds while declining to rank their severity.
Dr. Lakshmanan Sathyavagiswaran
The left internal jugular vein injury? Yes.
Confirms which of Goldman's neck injuries was fatal in a stark, minimal answer.
Brian Kelberg
But a mistake nonetheless?
Kelberg's methodical pattern of eliciting admissions that Dr. Golden made errors while defusing them by confirming they don't affect major conclusions — a prosecutorial strategy to preempt defense attacks on Golden.

Evidence (7)

People's 358 (photos G-40, G-50, G-55)
Autopsy photographs of Ron Goldman's head, neck, and ear region showing sharp force injuries
discussed in detail
People's 360 (photos G-48, G-49)
Board of photographs titled 'Sharp force injuries and blunt force trauma to head of Mr. Goldman'
introduced and discussed
Board 7G
Autopsy form 24 showing internal injuries including transection of the left internal jugular vein
discussed
Board 4G (form 22-I and 22-II)
Diagrams by Dr. Golden of head injuries including the temporal bone stab wound and posterior scalp cut
discussed, annotated by Kelberg in real time
People's 10G
Dr. Golden's addendum to the autopsy protocol, pages 3-4
discussed; addendum entries compared to original protocol and photographs
Board 6G (form 20F)
Diagram of scalp injuries including the quarter-inch posterior cut and ovoid abrasion
discussed and annotated
+ 1 more

Notable Exchanges (2)

Brian KelbergDr. Lakshmanan Sathyavagiswaran
Dr. Lakshmanan used Kelberg as a physical stand-in for Ron Goldman to demonstrate how the head wound could have been inflicted either by a perpetrator from behind during the control hold, or from the front while Goldman ducked. Kelberg narrated his own physical experience for the record: 'I felt some grazing of the ruler over the top of my head.'
illustrative, methodical
Brian KelbergDr. Lakshmanan Sathyavagiswaran
Running pattern throughout the examination where Kelberg asks whether omissions or errors in Dr. Golden's original protocol are 'mistakes' and then immediately asks if they bear on 'the big ticket issues.' Dr. Lakshmanan consistently answers yes to the first and no to the second.
strategic, anticipatory of defense cross

Light Moments (2)

Brian Kelberg / Lance A. Ito
Debate between Kelberg and Judge Ito about where exactly Dr. Lakshmanan was pointing on Kelberg's head. Kelberg said 'slightly to the left of the midline of my head up near the top'; Ito corrected 'It looks towards the back of the head to me.' Kelberg conceded: 'maybe I have a bad sense of--'
Lance A. Ito / Dr. Lakshmanan Sathyavagiswaran
After Kelberg attempted a verbose anatomical description of where Dr. Lakshmanan was pointing on his own head, Judge Ito cut it off: 'It's self-explanatory.' Dr. Lakshmanan cheerfully agreed: 'Self-explanatory.'

Credibility Attacks (1)

⚔ Dr. Irwin Golden
systematic enumeration of omissions and misclassifications by reviewing medical examiner
Kelberg, through Dr. Lakshmanan, elicited a methodical list of errors in Golden's original protocol: two injuries behind the right ear (G-50) were not described or diagrammed; an abrasion between ear and neck was misidentified as a 'cut'; and various entries required correction via addendum. Each was acknowledged as a 'mistake' but defused as non-significant to major conclusions.

Witness Demeanor

(The witness complies.) — stepping down to the easel
(Brief pause.) — multiple times while searching paperwork for injury numbers
(demonstrating) — physical demonstration of knife motion on Kelberg
(indicating) — frequent pointing at photographs, diagrams, and own body throughout

Objections

None recorded
Proceeding 6346 • 849 utterances • Prosecution witness
Criminal Trial
Department 103
⚖️ Start
📂 JUN 12, 1995 📄 Direct examination of Dr. Laks
JUN 12, 1995 KRT DvH TD