📄 Sidebar: drying times testimony — Monday, July 31, 1995
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C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\JUL\31\SIDEBAR-DRYING-TIMES-TESTIMONY.DOC
TRIAL
▲ Day 125 of 167

Sidebar: drying times testimony

Date: Monday, July 31, 1995 • Utterances: 20
Defense attorney Peter Neufeld attempted to salvage testimony about blood drying times on the sock after the court had previously ruled his June 6th experiment inadmissible. Neufeld argued the witness could rely on forty years of general expertise rather than the excluded experiment. Clark vigorously opposed, calling the reasoning 'specious' and arguing it was worse than the excluded experiment. Ito declined to rule preemptively but stated he was 'very skeptical.'
1 (The following proceedings were held at the bench:)
2 THE COURT:

All right. We are over at the side bar. Miss Clark.

3 MS. CLARK:

Sounds to me like counsel is going right into the area the Court ruled inadmissible.

4 THE COURT:

What are you going into here?

5 MR. NEUFELD:

Well, you ruled that the experiments that he did on June 6th were inadmissible because they don't meet the Bonin criteria. What I have to do is not rely on that experiment at all, but rather elicit through proper foundation that he has forty years of experience in all of the institutes that he runs doing drying times to all different types of fabrics and he, through forty years of doing these drying time tests with the students and in his institutes, he has the expertise to give an opinion about the drying time of blood on this sock. That is exactly the same thing, if you will, you recalled when Deedrick testified, when you wouldn't allow him to testify about what he learned in the report, but he was allowed to rely on whatever independent information he had prior to--

6 THE COURT:

Keep your voice down.

7 MR. NEUFELD:

I'm sorry. On other independent information he had as an expert in the field prior to the time of producing the report in this case. What we want to do with this witness is absolutely no different than that. He is not going to mention the experiment of June 6th. He is simply going to rely on this forty years' experience. And I think, your Honor, is--frankly, I will just ask those questions, and if she wants to object as to lack of foundation, I think you will decide that there is more than ample foundation. I'm not going to ask any of the key questions until I lay the proper foundation and you can rule at that time.

8 MS. CLARK:

Your Honor, this is so--I don't know where counsel gets these ideas. First of all, it bears no relation to what Mr. Deedrick was testifying to. This is even worse than the sock drying experiment, what counsel proposes to do here. In the sock drying experiment there was at least some effort, albeit insufficient, wholly inadequate, to duplicate the conditions, but the fact that this witness has observed other times when other fabrics dried under other conditions that have no bearing on this case is so irrelevant and preposterous that it is not relevant to the testimony or to the evidence in this case. What counsel is now proposing to do is get in is expertise to say what he couldn't do with an experiment that at least attempted to duplicate the conditions. And it is not the same as Mr. Deedrick because in Mr. Deedrick's case his testimony was excluded with respect to the report because of a discovery violation, not because it was irrelevant, which was the problem with the sock drying experiment. His testimony then was permitted to go as far as his expertise went and stopped at a point when he did the independent investigation for which there was a discovery violation. We are talking apples and watermelons here; not even apples and oranges. The specious reasoning of counsel would permit this witness to testify to almost anything that he has ever seen in his life and somehow try and relate it to the very material involved in this case.

9 THE COURT:

All right.

10 MS. CLARK:

Furthermore, your Honor, if counsel is permitted to question the witness and wait for me to object, then counsel by his questioning intends to get in front of the jury what he cannot do through the sock experiment and it is entirely improper in light of the Court's obviously correct ruling concerning the experiment.

11 THE COURT:

All right. I think your objection at this point, Miss Clark, is premature. I haven't heard what the foundation is. But Mr. Neufeld, given the Court's previous ruling regarding drying times, I'm very skeptical.

KEY QUOTE
12 MS. CLARK:

Your Honor, the problem is that if he continues to question in front of the jury, can we do it outside the presence then?

13 THE COURT:

Hold on. No.

14 MR. NEUFELD:

Just also bear in mind when I didn't even ask about the experiment on June 6th I said it was more in the experiment of an actual expert and it was not the actual conditions it was something that you did at that moment, and I think you correctly ruled it was inadmissible.

15 THE COURT:

I will listen to the foundation.

16 MR. NEUFELD:

Okay.

17 THE COURT:

I'm skeptical.

18 MS. CLARK:

How could he possibly lay a foundation saying he used these kind of materials when he didn't do it in the experiment?

19 THE COURT:

The object is premature because the question hasn't been asked yet. I indicated I'm very skeptical that the foundation is going to be there.

20 (The following proceedings were held in open court:)

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (4)

Marcia Clark
We are talking apples and watermelons here; not even apples and oranges.
Colorful dismissal of Neufeld's analogy to the Deedrick ruling, capturing Clark's contempt for the argument.
Peter Neufeld
He is simply going to rely on this forty years' experience. And I think, your Honor, is--frankly, I will just ask those questions, and if she wants to object as to lack of foundation, I think you will decide that there is more than ample foundation.
Neufeld's strategy: lay foundation in front of the jury and dare Clark to object, forcing Ito to rule on the fly.
Lance A. Ito
I think your objection at this point, Miss Clark, is premature. I haven't heard what the foundation is. But Mr. Neufeld, given the Court's previous ruling regarding drying times, I'm very skeptical.
Ito threads the needle — refusing to preemptively shut down the defense but signaling strong doubt, leaving the fight for the courtroom.
Marcia Clark
The specious reasoning of counsel would permit this witness to testify to almost anything that he has ever seen in his life and somehow try and relate it to the very material involved in this case.
Clark's reductio ad absurdum attack on the defense's foundational theory.

Evidence (2)

Informal
The sock with blood — central subject of the drying time testimony dispute
discussed
Informal
June 6th drying time experiment — previously ruled inadmissible by Ito under Bonin criteria
referenced as excluded baseline

Notable Exchanges (2)

Peter NeufeldMarcia Clark
Neufeld argued his witness's 40-year expertise was analogous to how Deedrick was permitted to testify beyond an excluded report; Clark flatly rejected the analogy, saying Deedrick's report was excluded for a discovery violation while the sock experiment was excluded for irrelevance — categorically different problems.
strategic
Marcia ClarkLance A. Ito
Clark asked whether foundation questioning could be done outside the jury's presence to prevent the jury from hearing inadmissible framing; Ito curtly refused with 'Hold on. No.'
procedural

Objections

1 objections (0 sustained, 0 overruled)
Proceeding 7083 • 20 utterances
Criminal Trial
Department 103
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📂 JUL 31, 1995 📄 Sidebar: drying times testimon
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