Mr. Meraz, would you resume the witness stand, please.

John Meraz, the witness on the stand at the time of the evening adjournment, resumed the stand and testified further as follows:

You are reminded that you are still under oath. Would you state your name again for the record.

All right. Just sit back and pull the microphone close to you, please.

All right. Good morning, Mr. Meraz.

Good morning.

You are reminded, sir, that you are still under oath. Mr. Cochran, you may continue with your direct examination.

Thank you very kindly, your Honor. And good morning ladies and gentlemen.

THE JURY: Good morning.

DIRECT EXAMINATION (RESUMED) BY MR. COCHRAN

Good morning, Mr. Meraz.

Good morning.

Sir, yesterday we were talking about your role in picking up the Bronco vehicle on June 15, 1994. Do you recall that?

Yes, I do.

And I want to, if I can, get a clear picture of the number of times that you had occasion to get inside that particular vehicle. Are you with me on that?

Umm, no.

Okay. I'm going to ask you a series of questions that I'm trying to elicit at least the number of times that you had occasion to get inside the driver's side or driver's compartment of the Bronco. Okay?

Okay.

All right. Now, yesterday you described for us that when you went to the print shed before you moved this vehicle, did you have occasion to get inside the vehicle at that time?

Yes, I did.

All right. And at that time, when you looked at that time, that would be the first time you got inside that vehicle, did you see blood inside that vehicle any place?

No, I did not.

And the first time that you got inside that vehicle can you describe for the ladies and gentlemen of the jury, if you can, and paint a word picture for us of how you got inside the vehicle the first time at the print shed?

I pulled the car out of the print shed, pulled it out, and as I pulled the car out, I had to get into the passenger side or driver's side, excuse me, driver's side of the vehicle, and I had half my body in and half my body out.

All right. Why don't you, if the Court would allow, step down. This is time no. 1, as I understand it. Why don't you, if the Court would allow, using the seat there as the driver's compartment, and if you can demonstrate it for the jurors, show us how you stepped in, if you can. You may step down from the stand if you need to.

I walked from my truck over to the vehicle, to the white Bronco. I went over to--I opened the door. As I opened the door, I put one hand on the steering wheel, and as I put that hand on the steering wheel I kind of did this, (Indicating), checked the steering, saw that it was locked. The reason I did that is so that--a lot of times if you tow a vehicle the steering wheel will break, it will cause you to hit another car going out, and this is the reason I did that. As I came out, I checked the emergency brake and that was it.

All right. So that is time no. 1?

That is no. 1.

And when you were inside that vehicle on that occasion, it is your testimony you didn't see any blood, right?

I didn't see any blood.

Did you see any black or dark gray print powder at that time?

No, I did not.

All right. Were there any keys in that vehicle at that point?

I didn't see any keys.

And I presume the door to that car was opened, as you described it? You just opened the door; is that right?

Yes, the car was unlocked.

All right. Now then, you have described for us driving to Viertel's on Temple. Do you recall that?

I recall that, yes.

Let me ask you this: Did you make any kind of communication or did you call ahead to Viertel's and tell them whether or not you were coming and which vehicle you were bringing there?

I think we have covered this yesterday.

Did we, your Honor? I know there was a stop. May I just ask one question, your Honor, for clarification.

All right.

I radioed in just before I got ready to leave.

With regard to that radioing in, did you make any kind of announcement what car you were bringing there?

I had advised the shop that I was in tow with OJ Simpson's car.

All right. Now, at that time, to the best of your estimation, how many employees did Viertel's have on Temple Street back on June 15 of 1994?

I would say fifty employees. I might be off by two.

All right. So then you got to Viertel, as we recall yesterday, and you parked that vehicle at a point called T-3; is that correct?

That's correct.

I would like, your Honor, if I might, to mark as the Defense next exhibit, counsel, I believe you have seen this, 12--

1254.

1254, your Honor.

Counsel has seen this and may I approach just for a moment?

You may.

All right. Now, I have an overhead photograph of what purports to be of Viertel's with some numbers, T-1 through T-5 on them. And I'm going to ask you to take a look at that and tell us whether or not--the witness, your Honor, is indicating he left his glasses and I presume he needs them. May I go back and get them from someone?

Yes.

Thank you.

All right. The witness now has his glasses.

Thank you, your Honor.

Now you have your glasses and I'm going to ask you to take a look at this next exhibit, Defendant's 1254, and describe for the ladies and gentlemen of the jury what is depicted in that photograph.

This is a picture of the yard at Viertel's automotive, described in T-1, T-2, T-3, T-4 and T-5.

Can you briefly share with us what those different numbers are. What is T-1? What is depicted in T-1?

T-1, if a car is going to be left in the yard a length of time, it is put up there, or if it is drivable, if it has keys, it is put up into T-1. T-2 is basically an evidentiary hold where they hold cars for prints inside.

Okay.

T-3 is the main yard. That is where all the vehicles come in if they are wrecked. If there is a hold on it, a lot of times we keep them there. T-4, basically cars, if they don't have wheels on them, we basically put them there. T-5, which is directly facing the freeway, they put cars with no wheels on there.

All right. Your Honor, I would like--I don't know if we can do this with the elmo, but I would like to demonstrate this for the jury.

I think we can.

Let's see if we can. I will ask Mr. Harris to share this with everyone.

All right. Now, you can look down. There is a monitor to your right. It might be a little bit easier for you.

Yes.

Is that what you just described? The jury can now see the various areas of T-1, T-2, T-3 and T-4 and T-5.

Yes.

All right, sir. Would you show us, if you can, when you drove onto this lot on this June 15th date with the Bronco in tow, you told us yesterday you parked it at T-3; is that correct?

That's correct.

Can you just show us generally, and we can get a pointer for you, where on 1254 did you park the Bronco vehicle?

I parked it right in the middle of the lot which is T-3.

Okay. You see that arrow that is on the screen?

The arrow is off.

Can you direct the arrow in which direction to go and we will try to find it.

Come down. No, come up, come up. Right. Now, go a few inches, right--right there, right in there, (Indicating). You went too far. Right there is where I put the car.

That is where you put the car?

Yes.

Your Honor, can we print that out?

Yes.

And we will put the initials of "J.M." For John Meraz.

That is where you put the Bronco when you took it on the 15th and what time of day was that?

It was after eleven o'clock in the morning when I originally picked the car up.

Okay. Now, so that we are clear, and I want to make sure--the Court will obviously indulge us on this--I want to address the witness with regard to 1253. We will keep this up for a moment. Yesterday you told us about this form, this vehicle investigation form, and I want to approach, if I can, your Honor, again. And in looking at this form I notice there are two places at the top that has something saying "Hold." In the left upper corner is an indication, your Honor, "Prints/evidence, give special care." There is a box there. Was that box on the form that you had on June 15th? Was that box ever checked?

No, it wasn't.

All right. Is there another box further over that is partially obscured on this form by a paper--by the whole puncher, there is a hole, "Impounded hold" there?

I briefly see it. A little "X" right there on the hold.

All right. And with regard to that, did you have some conversation with the officer who signed this particular form about whether or not there was any special care holds on this particular vehicle?

I asked the officer three times if there was a hold on this car for prints, if there was a hold or okay to release. He stated to me there is no hold--excuse me. He stated there is a hold but there is no hold for prints. He says, no, there is a hold on it. If Hertz comes to pick the vehicle up, it is okay to release to them, but they have to go through robbery division to get it.

All right. That was as of June 15th that it could be released to Hertz if they came to pick it up, although they had to go through robbery/homicide; is that right?

That's right.

Now, on this form then, 1253, there is an indication on here "Hold until released to a representative from Hertz corporation, RHD robbery/homicide handling"; is that correct?

That's correct.

Did you print that in or did someone else print that in?

The officer did that.

Is name is H-A-R-O, Haro?

Haro.

Did you write anything else on this portion of the form?

Yes, I did. On the right-hand side of the impound I put the license number of the vehicle. On the left-hand side I put where I had put the car, in T-3.

All right. Your Honor, if I might just show this also at this point?

Yes.

1253, and we will come back to that. Let's put 1253 on the elmo.

Now, the portion--let's start at the top, Mr. Harris. The portion you and I were just talking about at the top in the upper left-hand corner where it says "Prints/evidence, give special care," there was no--that box was not checked, was it?

That box was not checked, no.

Now, I want you to--the box we were talking about a moment ago, so it is clear for the jury, is over to the right where there is a copy made over, your Honor, a hole for--from a hole puncher. Can you find that, Mr. Harris? Move to your left. Straight up. All right.

Now, there is a box there. Under that it says some kind of hold, does it not?

That's correct.

All right. And is that what you are alluding to, hold for Hertz?

That right there indicates to me that the car is held for robbery/homicide and if the owner is to pick it up, they would be sent to robbery/homicide to get a release from them.

All right. And who was this vehicle registered to, if you know, sir?

I was told by the officer that the vehicle belonged to Hertz rent-a-car.

All right. Mr. Harris, let's come down on the form and we will look at the portions that Mr. Meraz wrote in his own hand. Now, you described for us a moment ago that you wrote the license number of this particular vehicle; is that correct? Can you show us where that is with the arrow?

Come on down with the arrow. Whoa. Right there, yes, (Indicating).

Where it indicates on 1253, 3CWS788 you wrote that; is that correct?

That's correct.

And then you also indicate you wrote the letter and word "T-3"?

On the left-hand side of that with a circle around it.

All right. All right. And then below that the officer whose name is in this form is Haro, Officer Haro, h-a-r-o, right?

That's correct.

All right. Now, we can go back to the large exhibit, 1234.

Now, when you got to the location, you described for us yesterday there were a number of employees around. When you got there, describe for us how many people--how many employees came around you as you put that vehicle in T-3, if you recall?

Umm, it could have been about ten employees there waiting for me.

All right. They were waiting for you?

Yes.

And did you have some conversation with them or any of these employees about whose vehicle this was?

Yes.

All right. And by virtue of that conversation did you all look--look at the vehicle more closely?

I don't quite follow you.

Did you have occasion to discuss whether or not there is any substance on this vehicle by virtue--in the conversation with these employees?

Yes.

And what did you talk about?

All right. So based upon your hearing that, what did you do, if anything?

I got curious.

When you got curious, what did you do?

I looked to see if there was any blood in the vehicle.

Did you see any at that point?

I did not.

Now, again, now when you got to the place and you unhooked the vehicle, did you have occasion to get back inside that vehicle again?

Yes, I did.

Again, we will only do it if it is different than the way you got in the first time. This is time no. 2, can you describe for us, first of all, how you got inside the vehicle on the second occasion?

I did the same thing. I got in the vehicle, put both hands on the steering wheel. I had one portion of my leg into the seat, the other portion of my leg facing out. I extended out like this, (Indicating), looking into the vehicle. I was curious to see if there was any blood.

Indicating looking over his right shoulder.

Do you recall whether or not you looked at the console area?

I looked all over the car. By meaning "All over the car," I looked in the front of the car.

All right. And did you see any blood at that point?

I didn't see any.

Did you look at the steering wheel?

Steering wheel was right in front of me. I didn't see any there either.

Do you recall looking at the floor of the vehicle? Did it look like as though the floor or the carpet on the floor had been modified in any way, Mr. Meraz?

The floor mat had been cut at the print shed, so there was no floor mat.

All right. Did you see anything else that looked different about that vehicle other than the floor mat being apparently missing?

No.

All right. Now, that was time no. 2 that you were inside that particular vehicle; is that correct?

That's correct.

Now, while you were in the vehicle during time no. 2, did you notice any kind of receipts or vouchers at that point at all?

Yes, I did.

Describe for the jury again what you noticed and where these receipts were.

The door was opened, which is the driver's side, the side that I was in, opened the door. There is a side pocket. There is a couple of receipts in there.

A side pocket on the driver's side of the Bronco?

Yes.

And what, if anything, did you do with regard to those receipts?

All right. Now, why did you take them out of the car?

I guess status, who the man was.

All right. Now, meaning Mr. OJ Simpson?

Yes.

Okay. So how many receipts did you take out of the door of the car?

Two.

And did you have occasion to look at those receipts?

Yes, I did.

Can you describe for the ladies and gentlemen of the jury what those receipts said?

One beared the name of OJ Simpson on a tuxedo, the other beared the name of Nicole Simpson, address, other miscellaneous stuff on there.

What were these documents? Were they from a cleaners? What were they for?

Cleaners.

You saw these yourself and how many were there altogether?

There was two.

And you read them and you saw both names of Mr. Simpson and Mrs. Simpson; is that right?

Yes.

So you took them out of the car during the second time you were inside that vehicle; is that right--

--at T-3?

You want to repeat that again, please?

Sure. Let me see if I can say it again. You took these items out of the Bronco during the second time that you were inside that Bronco when you were at the point T-3 at Viertel's?

That's correct.

Okay. And then what did you do with them at that point?

I put them in my shirt, showed them around to the employees.

How many employees would you say you showed them to?

I have no--no actual count.

All right. And so you kept them in your shirt pocket for a while?

Yes.

Okay. Now, after you dropped that car off at T-3 and after you had taken these two receipts from a cleaners--by the way, do you recall in your mind where that cleaners was located?

Somewhere in Westwood. I don't know the name of it.

All right. Then after that, what did you do? Did you stay there or did you go out on a call?

I went on another call after that.

All right. Then when you left the premises was the Bronco still parked generally where you indicated on 1254?

Yes.

And was it still opened at that point?

Yes.

Now, before you leave, let me ask you a couple of questions about the area at T-3. Who has access to vehicles parked there at T-3 in that particular open lot?

When you say who has access--

Well, what--do the employees--you described there were maybe fifty employees at Viertel's at that time. Do the other employees have access to that lot? Can they go on that lot? Can they enter it and enter the cars that are there?

They can wander through whatever they want. That same lot there, you have the public that comes in. You have other tow outfits that come in there to pick up cars.

So this is an area where a number of people come in and out; is that correct?

Yes.

Okay. And is there anybody who polices or stops you from coming in there or anything of that nature at T-3?

Well, they have a lot guy there and a lot of times he is either too busy to handle everybody and a lot of time they will wander in and a lot of time they get caught and asked to get out.

All right. Now, you described for us that you had worked there for some 25 years; is that correct?

That's correct.

And your experiences over this period of time--you are testifying regarding your experiences over the 25 years or so you worked there?

That's correct.

Now--all right. Now, then at some point you told us you went out on a call and that call was unrelated to this--to Mr. OJ Simpson's vehicle, right?

That's correct.

Okay. And how long were you on this call before you came back, if you recall?

Umm, quite a few hours.

All right. Did you have some further contact with the Bronco vehicle on that date of June 15th, 1994?

Yes.

And about what time of day was that?

About 5:00, 5:10, somewhere in there.

In the afternoon of the same day?

In the afternoon, yes.

Did you have occasion then to see that vehicle shortly after five o'clock on June 15th?

Yes.

Where was the vehicle at that point?

Well, it had been moved from T-3 over to T-2.

So now if we look at 1254, again in the center there looks like a white building. That is T-2. Is that where it had been moved to?

That's correct.

And for the record, Mr. Harris has put a magenta, I guess, arrow on T-2.

That is the building it had been moved into?

That is the building.

Do you know who moved that vehicle to that T-2 area?

No, I don't.

So between the time you left and the time you got back the vehicle was not where you left it in T-3, it was now in T-2?

That's correct.

Okay. Did you have occasion to go into T-2 and do something with regard to that vehicle?

When I returned at about 5:05, 5:10, somewhere in there, yes.

Tell us what happened, what you did?

I decided to put the papers back into the vehicle.

All right. These are the two--

Two--two vouchers.

Two vouchers? We will call them vouchers that you had?

Yes.

You decided to put them back; is that correct?

That's correct.

Did you put them back in the vehicle?

Yes, I did.

When you put them back in the vehicle was that vehicle parked inside of T-2, was it still opened or unlocked?

It was unlocked.

And what did you do? Did you open the door?

I opened the door.

And tell us what you did.

I opened the door, put them in the side post and walked away from there.

Was anybody else around at that point?

No, nobody else.

All right. You put the vouchers back where you had gotten them?

Yes.

Why did you bring them back and put them back?

I have no idea. I just put them back.

All right. Now, can you just tell us generally where in T-2 was the vehicle parked at that point?

Just about right there where that indication of T-2, where the circle is, is where it was put in.

All right. Your Honor, we can use--use 1254 for identification at this point and then in the area where it is marked T-2, inside that building is where the Bronco was parked.

Yes.

All right. And when you looked--when you put the receipts back in that--vouchers back in the Bronco after--shortly after 5:00 on June 15th, at that point did you see any blood inside that vehicle?

I didn't see any. Of course I just went in and opened the door and I didn't see any blood.

All right. Did you see any powder as though there had been any fingerprinting of that vehicle at that point?

The car was never printed.

All right. You didn't see any powder?

I didn't see no powder.

Okay. All right. After that, after you put the receipt back, did you have occasion to have any contact with the owner of Viertel's lot after that?

I went on a call.

Another call?

Another call. I returned back 5:00, 5:30, somewhere in there. I was due to get off at 6:00 and management called me in at about 5:40.

When you went into management, who were you talking to?

To Bob Jones.

Is he the--who is Bob Jones?

Bob Jones is the manager of the establishment.

All right. Who else was present during this conversation?

It was just him and i.

All right. You had a conversation?

Yes.

All right. Was the subject matter of that conversation these vouchers or these receipts that you had taken?

I was asked about them, yes.

And were you--you had shown these receipts or vouchers to other employees, had you not?

That's correct.

All right. Now, when you talked to your--he was your boss, was he?

Manager, yes.

Your manager at that time?

Yes, possible.

How long had he been your manager?

Umm, I really don't know.

All right.

It is--more than five years.

Okay. More than five years?

Yes.

All right. Had you been there longer than he had?

He had a couple of years, a few years more than I did.

All right. So you had known him for a period of time; is that correct?

Yes.

Had you had some relationship with a family member of his?

Not with him.

With a family member of his?

Not a family of his, but the owner of the establishment of Viertel's.

All right. And the owner is some other person; is that right?

Yes. That is the owner that owns Viertel's automotive.

Okay. Had you had a relationship with the owner's daughter?

Yes, I did.

And when was that?

Objection, relevance, your Honor.

I can link it up.

Overruled.

Thank you, your Honor.

When was the relationship?

The relationship started back in--during the Olympics. The Olympics were in `84.

Objection, relevance.

Overruled.

The relationship started in 1984 or thereabouts.

Yes.

How long did that relationship continue, if you recall?

Until 1991.

About seven years?

Yes.

What was that relationship--was this with the owner's daughter?

That's correct.

Did that relationship end at some point?

I think we just established that.

Yes, and I was--that was foundational, your Honor. When it ended. The question was, your Honor, when it did end.

How did that relationship end with the owner's daughter?

Well, when we broke up the relationship of her and I living together, umm, we were still seeing each other up until `82 and then we broke off permanent and she had to work--I had to work there so it was like I had to watch what I had to do.

Objection again, relevance.

Overruled. Goes to bias.

Did the ending--was it a pleasant ending, sir?

In my opinion, no, it wasn't a pleasant ending. She had to work there and I had to continue to work there.

Both of you continued to work at that location after that?

Yes.

That is the man that owns this particular business?

Yes.

Bob Jones works for the owner, right?

He is the manager, yes.

All right. In the course of your conversation with Mr. Jones, did he ask you a question about these vouchers or these receipts?

He asked me about the vouchers, yes.

And what did you tell him, if anything?

I denied it.

You lied to him?

Yes, I did.

And why did you lie to him?

All right. When you say you were on thin ice, what do you mean by that?

Well, a few days prior to this I had said a few words--

Objection, hearsay.

Sustained.

Some incident occurred a few days before?

That's correct.

Had it involved you and Mr. Jones?

No.

Or some other employee?

Some other employee there.

And had you talked to him about that incident? Had you been called on the carpet regarding that incident?

Objection, your Honor, calls for hearsay, relevance.

It is leading. Sustained.

All right.

There had been some incident that preceded this; is that correct?

That's correct.

Okay. And so after you talked to him, you denied having removed these receipts or vouchers. Tell us what happened after that.

He asked me--he said to me, he says that he had had word from other employees there that I had taken these papers out of the car and I denied it. I says, "I don't know anything about it." He says, well--he says, "I have this information." I says, "Well, whatever you got, I don't know what you are talking about." And he asked me to empty my pockets out.

All right. Did you do that at that point?

No, I refused to.

All right. Then what happened after that?

He said I was suspended.

All right. Now, at that point, when you were talking to him, what time of evening was this on June 15th?

Ten to 6:00.

All right. Had you replaced those vouchers or receipts back into the Bronco at that point?

They were already replaced back into the vehicle.

All right. But you still wouldn't let him look into your pockets?

Right.

After that he suspended you?

After that he suspended me, yes.

That is June 15th?

June 15th.

Right before six o'clock in the afternoon?

That's correct.

Okay. After you were suspended, what happened after that?

Well, it was a nightmare to me, I mean, working there all those years.

All right.

I got home.

So you were suspended as of that date; is that correct?

That's correct.

Thereafter did you have occasion to go back to that lot on or about June 17th, 1994, two days later?

Yes. He called me, I believe it was Thursday, which would be the 16th.

All right.

And said that him and myself and Bob Jones and Mr. Viertel's would be in conference.

All right. There would be three of you in conference?

Yes.

Okay. When was that? Was there a meeting set up at that point?

Yes. This was for the 17th of June.

All right. And did you--did you appear on the 17th of June?

Yes, I did.

And do you recall--and tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury about what time it was that you got there on the 17th of June.

It might have been about 10:30 in the morning.

All right. When you got there, where did you go, if you recall?

I went directly to bob's office, but prior of me going to bob's office I had noticed that the Bronco had been moved again.

All right. Now, the Bronco--you told us about it being at the point of T-3. You told us where it was generally at T-2. Now, it had been moved for a third time since it was at Viertel's; is that right?

That's right.

Do you know who had moved it?

No, I was there.

Can you--if Mr. Harris puts that arrow up there, can you show us the third parking place for the Bronco, if he moves the arrow down. Still in the T-2 area, right?

Yes.

All right.

Okay. That is where it was the first time. The second time, if you will move that arrow to my left. Keep going. It was--no. Now go--basically the same location as to where the marking of T-2 is, but directly across.

Across from--

Across from where the--the orange letter is in there, T-2. Right in there is where it was put in, (Indicating).

This is--is that heading north? Is that north?

That would be the west side of the building.

West side of the building? All right. Your Honor, can we put a mark there and put "J.M." This point would be the point where the third--the third parking space of the Bronco, your Honor.

All right.

1254, I believe.

Now, at that time did you have occasion to go with Mr. Jones and someone else to that vehicle at that point?

Well, yes.

All right. Tell us what happened.

After we had discussed the things in Bob Jones' office, Viertel walked out, I walked out and Bob walked out, all three of us walked out of there to go look into the Bronco.

All right. And prior to your walking to this point on 1254, the parking place of the Bronco, you had had a conversation with the owner of Viertel's and Bob Jones and yourself; is that right?

That's correct.

How long did that conversation last?

Fifteen to twenty minutes.

All right. And after--after that conversation you then walked out of the office over to T-2; is that right?

Well, bob's office is basically in T-2.

All right.

So we walked out of his office.

Okay. Now, before we get to the Bronco, with regard to T-2, is--T-2 you have described for the cars that are in there. That is a place where cars are placed where there is some kind of a hold or for some special care?

Yes. Normally 99, a hundred percent of the cars that are towed that have an evidentiary hold on the vehicles, hold for prints or further investigation, they are normally put in there, kept away from the public.

All right. That is a more secure facility than T-3?

It is supposed to be secured.

All right. Well, is it in actuality? Was it secured?

Objection, calls for speculation.

I'm asking.

Conclusion.

Rephrase the question.

All right. Based upon your experience and having worked there for a period of time, tell us about the security regarding at T-2 in that particular building.

Describe it or--

Yes. Describe it, sir, and how it worked.

Well, cars coming in, you've got the front door that if somebody comes in, there is a button that is raised that lifts the gate up. On the back end of the garage the mechanics work there. On the side, which would be on the east side of the building, there is a door there where the driver's room is. There is a door there. A lot of times a lot of customers would come in there. Not being escorted, they would come through there, catch us napping there, eating lunch or whatever, and we say, "What are you doing here?" "Well, I come to use the toilet."

All right. So would the fifty or so employees at Viertel's, would they have access to T-2 also, that area?

Yes.

Objection. That again calls for speculation.

Overruled.

Could they just come in and out?

And that is T-2 also?

Yes.

All right. Now, with regard to the vehicle and where it was parked, tell us what happened with regard to that, between you, Bob Jones and Viertel?

I walked out of bob's office and we were walking in T-2 towards the Bronco. Viertel came with us. Bob came with--he was standing next to me. There was two detectives that were in the building, but in the portion of where the drivers eat is where the detectives were. Bob said, "There's two detectives" and Viertel went one way and Bob and I continued going toward the Bronco.

Is that to kind of throw off the detectives?

Exactly.

Objection, speculation.

Sustained.

Ask the jury to--

Well--

Wait.

I'm sorry.

The jury is to disregard the last question and answer.

Why did you do that?

Well, Bob didn't want to make it obvious that we were going towards the Bronco.

All right.

Objection.

Sustained. The answer is stricken. The jury is to disregard.

All right.

At any rate, did you have some conversation with Bob about how you would get to that Bronco?

Well, we when were going to the Bronco we didn't think the detectives would be in there.

Objection again. Calls for speculation, "We."

Sustained.

All right.

The answer is stricken.

At any rate, you got to the Bronco at some point; is that correct?

Yes.

When you got there were there any detectives around the vehicle at that point?

Yes.

When you got there the detectives were around that vehicle?

No.

All right. And did you have occasion to get inside the vehicle or to look inside the vehicle at that point?

I opened the door to the Bronco.

All right. Now, is this--which time is this? This is time number?

Fourth time.

The fourth time?

Yes.

All right. The vehicle is still unlocked?

That's correct.

All right. Describe for us what you did when you opened the vehicle.

I opened the door and Bob says to me like, "Hurry up," because of the detectives being there. And I said--

Objection. Same objection.

Sustained. The answer is stricken in its entirety. The jury is to disregard. Ask another question.

All right. After you opened the door--don't tell us what Bob said. You opened the door and then what happened?

I opened the door. I said, "They are not there."

What do you mean they are not there? What are you talking about?

The papers that you had put back in there?

Exactly.

All right. And you didn't see them at that point; is that right?

I didn't see them in there, no.

Do you know who had taken them after you put them back?

No, I don't.

Objection. That calls for speculation that anyone took them.

Sustained. Tardy, though. Go ahead.

Okay.

Did you go back to the same area where you placed these vouchers back yourself?

Yes, I did.

And did you see them there at that location?

No, I did not.

Had they been there when you last left that vehicle on June 15th in the afternoon?

They were last there, yes.

They were not there now; is that right?

They were not there now.

All right. Now, after that, after you didn't see these vouchers there, what happened after that, sir?

Bob and I walked back to his office.

All right. Now, at that point you were on suspension; is that correct?

Well, he called it investigating is what he called it.

All right. Then after you--after your conversation with him on the 17th were you still on suspension or was your status changed?

I was going to go on vacation and he knew I was going to go on vacation. He says, well--

Objection, hearsay.

Sustained.

All right.

You were about to go on vacation you just told us?

Yes.

Let me ask you this: Without telling us what Bob Jones said, at that point did you go on vacation?

Yes, I did.

Were you being paid for the time on vacation, if you know?

Yes.

All right. So you went on vacation? You had this paid vacation coming, right?

That's correct.

And while you were out on vacation did you have occasion to come back to Viertel's sometime in or around June 11th of 1994?

I returned back July 11th.

Did I say June 11th?

Yes.

I meant July 11th, your Honor.

On or about July 11th, 1994? Tell us what happened on July 11th.

I was due back July 11th and I had called on a Friday prior to July 11th and I wanted to take an extra week of vacation, and while Bob had me on the telephone he says, "Oh, by the way, I need to talk to you."

All right. Did you make arrangements to come down and see Mr. Bob Jones after that?

Yes.

And when--do you recall when you came in on that date?

I went back July 11th.

All right. And what time of the day was that, if you recall?

It was about 10:30, eleven o'clock in the morning.

All right. And did you come to Bob Jones' office?

Yes, I did.

Do you recall whether or not you saw the Bronco at all on that day?

Yes, I seen the Bronco.

And where--was it parked in the same point as we indicated there, 1254, with the magenta arrow there?

Yes.

Still the same place now?

Yes.

Okay. Did you go over to it on that occasion?

No. I didn't go to the Bronco, no.

All right. You went to Bob Jones' office?

Yes.

And did you have a conversation with him?

Yes, I did.

And did your employment status change as of that day?

Yes, it did.

And what happened to you?

I was terminated.

And have you worked there since that date at all?

No, I haven't.

Now, I notice that you have two lawyers with you today, and have you brought some kind of a lawsuit against Viertel's?

Yes, I did. I filled a wrongful termination.

And are these gentleman who are seated back over to my right, are they representing you in that lawsuit?

Yes, they are.

That matter is still pending now; is that right?

Still pending, yes.

All right. Now, on any of the occasions when you had occasion to either tow the car or be around the car, did you have occasion to look at or make note of the physical condition of this particular car?

Are we--the Bronco?

Yes, the Bronco we are talking about when you first picked it up at the print shed.

There was an inventory that was made of the vehicle on the date I picked it up.

That would have been on June 15th; is that correct?

That is correct.

Did you fill that inventory out or did someone else?

I had started the impound sheet there.

Is that on the form that I previously showed you, 1253?

Yes.

And, umm--

If I might approach again, your Honor.

This is a copy of 1253 I will place before you. Is there a place on here where you can show us where you started the inventory of that vehicle?

I didn't start the inventory. I started the impound sheet.

Okay. All right. Was there a place for an inventory of the vehicle, though?

Yes. On the middle of the--of the impound sheet there is an inventory of the vehicle. Indicates "Seat front," so forth.

All right. Did you have occasion to look at that particular vehicle to see whether or not it had any kind of damage?

When I towed it in the vehicle had no damage at all.

All right. You made a visual observation to determine that yourself?

Yes, I did. And for me to sign my name on this, I have to go through that vehicle and inspect it myself and then put my signature. Any damage done to that vehicle I'm responsible for.

Did you do that in this case?

Yes, I did.

And you didn't see any damage; is that correct?

I didn't see any damage at all.

All right. At any time later did you ever see any damage to that particular vehicle at all?

There was no damage on that vehicle when I left it there.

When you last dealt with it; is that right?

That's right.

May I have just a second, your Honor?

Your Honor, I need to perhaps mark I think two paragraphs, 1254-A, the printout, and I think there is also a 1254-B, if the Court pleases.

Yes.

One last question.

One is T-2 location no. 1 and one is T-2 location no. 2, correct?

That is correct, your Honor. Thank you.

You indicated that based upon this inventory, whatever, you didn't see any damage to the vehicle and--other than the--what you have described for us where the carpeting was cut out on the driver's side; is that right?

That's correct.

Very well. I have nothing further of this witness.