📄 Cross-examination of John Meraz (part 1) — Wednesday, July 19, 1995
Address:
C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\JUL\19\CROSS-EXAMINATION-OF-JOHN-MERA.DOC
TRIAL
▲ Day 118 of 167

Cross-examination of John Meraz (part 1)

Witness: John Meraz
Examiner: Marcia Clark
Called by: Defense • Date: Wednesday, July 19, 1995 • Utterances: 256
Marcia Clark cross-examines John Meraz, a tow truck driver who handled OJ Simpson's Bronco after the murders, exposing his lies to his supervisors about stealing receipts from the Bronco's side pocket. Clark's central attack is that Meraz has a financial motive to maintain his story — he has a pending wrongful termination suit against his employer and cannot admit he kept the stolen receipts without undermining that case. Clark also questions him about the Bronco's condition, including a missing floor mat and whether he saw any blood on the driver's side door.
1 THE COURT:

Miss Clark.

2 MS. CLARK:

Thank you, your Honor.

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. CLARK

3 MS. CLARK:

Good morning, Mr. Meraz.

4 MR. MERAZ:

Good morning.

5 MS. CLARK:

Now, as you stated, sir, when Mr. Jones first confronted you with having taken those receipts from the Bronco, you lied, didn't you?

6 MR. MERAZ:

That's correct.

7 MS. CLARK:

And you told him you took nothing from the Bronco, didn't you?

8 MR. MERAZ:

He asked me about the papers.

9 MS. CLARK:

And you said you did not take them?

10 MR. MERAZ:

That's correct.

11 MS. CLARK:

But you had?

12 MR. MERAZ:

This is true.

13 MS. CLARK:

And you put them in your pocket?

14 MR. MERAZ:

Shirt.

15 MS. CLARK:

Shirt pocket, yes?

16 MR. MERAZ:

That's correct.

17 MS. CLARK:

And then later on--and then he asked you to remove the contents of your pocket, didn't he?

18 MR. MERAZ:

He did.

19 MS. CLARK:

And you refused?

20 MR. MERAZ:

That's correct.

21 MS. CLARK:

And you refused because you had those receipts in your shirt pocket, didn't you?

22 MR. MERAZ:

No, I didn't.

23 MS. CLARK:

But you refused to empty your pocket for him, didn't you?

24 MR. MERAZ:

That's correct.

25 MS. CLARK:

And after you lied to Bob Jones and you refused to remove the contents of your pockets, he suspended you; isn't that right?

26 MR. MERAZ:

Suspended me, yes.

27 MS. CLARK:

Now, when you went back to the Bronco on June the 17th you went with Mr. Viertel and you went with Mr. Jones; isn't that right?

28 MR. MERAZ:

That's correct.

29 MS. CLARK:

Now, again on that date you were confronted by Mr. Viertel about having taken something from the Bronco, correct?

30 MR. MERAZ:

Correct.

31 MS. CLARK:

And you lied again, didn't you?

32 MR. MERAZ:

No, I didn't.

33 MS. CLARK:

When Mr. Viertel confronted you at first on June the 17th and asked you if you took something from the Bronco you said you did not?

34 MR. MERAZ:

That is not true.

35 MS. CLARK:

Mr. Meraz, let me remind you--well, let me first ask you something else. Before you came to this trial, to this courtroom today and yesterday, you testified at a pretrial hearing, didn't you?

36 MR. MERAZ:

Correct.

37 MS. CLARK:

And at that hearing you testified about many of the same things you've testified here in court to, correct?

38 MR. MERAZ:

Correct.

39 MS. CLARK:

I'm going to show counsel page 5389.

40 MR. COCHRAN:

Which one?

41 MS. CLARK:

5389.

42 MR. COCHRAN:

I think I have different numbers, your Honor. May I walk over there?

43 (Discussion held off the record between Deputy District Attorney and Defense counsel.)
44 MS. CLARK:

May the record reflect I'm showing it to Mr. Meraz' attorneys as well as to Mr. Cochran.

45 THE COURT:

Yes. Proceed.

46 (Brief pause.)
47 THE COURT:

Proceed.

48 MS. CLARK:

I'm going to show you the page of a transcript--before I do, it is your testimony at this point that when you went in to see Mr. Viertel and Mr. Jones on June the 17th and they asked you again whether you took anything from the side pocket of the Bronco, you said no, you continued to lie?

49 MR. MERAZ:

That is not true.

50 MS. CLARK:

Do you recall them showing you statements written out by other employees who saw you with those receipts taken from the Bronco?

51 MR. MERAZ:

I remember them showing them to me, yes.

52 MS. CLARK:

And do you also recall, sir, that it was only after they showed you that written statement that said they saw you with the receipt that you took out of the Bronco that you admitted that it was true?

53 MR. MERAZ:

That is not true. That is not true.

54 MS. CLARK:

All right. Mr. Meraz, do you recall being asked the following questions at the pretrial hearing in this matter, page 5389. "You phoned Viertel two days later on June the 17th, did you not? "Answer: Correct. "Question: On that date you met with Mr. Richard Viertel and Bob Jones; is that correct? "Answer: That's true. "Question: And once again on that date you were asked by Mr. Viertel this time if you had removed any items from the Ford Bronco; is that correct? "Answer: That's correct. "And at first you denied taking anything out of the Bronco; isn't that right? "Answer: That is not true. "At first you denied taking anything from the Ford Bronco, did you not? "Answer: At first, yes."

55 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, I don't think that is impeaching. The answer is confusing.

56 THE COURT:

Overruled. Question. Do you have a question?

57 MS. CLARK:

Yes.

58 MS. CLARK:

Now, do you recall at first denying it to Mr. Viertel and then admitting it only after he showed you written statements of the other employees who saw you holding the receipts that you stole from the Bronco?

59 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, may I--

60 THE COURT:

Rephrase the question.

61 MR. COCHRAN:

May I show something to counsel, in fairness?

62 MR. MERAZ:

That is misleading there.

63 MS. CLARK:

I'm asking a question, sir.

64 MS. CLARK:

Do you remember that, sir?

65 MR. COCHRAN:

Okay.

66 MR. MERAZ:

It didn't happen.

67 MS. CLARK:

It didn't happen?

68 THE COURT:

Hold on. There is an objection.

69 MR. COCHRAN:

I have an objection, your Honor. I would like to show the Court something on the record with regard to the transcript.

70 THE COURT:

Miss Clark. Show it to Miss Clark first.

71 (Discussion held off the record between Deputy District Attorney and Defense counsel.)
72 THE COURT:

All right. Proceed.

73 (Discussion held off the record between Deputy District Attorney and Defense counsel.)
74 THE COURT:

Proceed.

75 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, I have an objection with regard to this.

76 THE COURT:

Noted. Thank you. Proceed.

77 MR. COCHRAN:

All right.

78 (Discussion held off the record between Deputy District Attorney and Defense counsel.)
79 THE COURT:

Proceed.

80 MS. CLARK:

Then it is your testimony that when you testified at the pretrial hearing you did not admit that you initially lied to Mr. Viertel again on June the 17th?

81 MR. MERAZ:

When Mr. Hodgman questioned me I had told him--

82 MS. CLARK:

The answer requires yes or no, Mr. Meraz.

83 MR. COCHRAN:

May the witness be allowed to answer?

84 THE COURT:

We all don't get to talk at the same time.

85 MR. COCHRAN:

May the witness be allowed to finish his answer?

86 THE COURT:

He is allowed to finish his answer.

87 MR. MERAZ:

When Mr. Hodgman talked to me--

88 MS. CLARK:

Objection, your Honor. This is nonresponsive.

89 THE COURT:

I don't know if it is or not. I haven't heard the question.

90 MS. CLARK:

It requires a yes or no.

91 THE COURT:

No, it doesn't. He is entitled to explain his answer. Mr. Meraz, answer the question, please.

92 MR. MERAZ:

When Mr. Hodgman asked me the same question that you had asked me, we were talking about Bob Jones, that I had lied to him, and then he came right back and asked me the same thing that you did. I said no, I never lied to Bob or Viertel on the second day, so I never did.

93 MS. CLARK:

So it is your testimony now that you only lied on the first day; is that right?

94 MR. COCHRAN:

Object on the form of the question now. That is argumentative.

95 THE COURT:

Overruled.

96 MS. CLARK:

Is that your testimony, sir?

97 MR. MERAZ:

I lied to Bob.

98 MS. CLARK:

Is that your testimony?

99 MR. MERAZ:

That is my testimony.

100 MS. CLARK:

And your testimony is currently that you did not lie again to Mr. Viertel and Mr. Jones on the 17th? Is that your testimony?

101 MR. MERAZ:

That's correct.

102 MS. CLARK:

But nevertheless, you do recall being shown written statements of your fellow employees who said they saw you with the receipts that you stole from the Bronco?

103 MR. MERAZ:

I never read those statements.

104 MS. CLARK:

You saw them, didn't you?

105 MR. MERAZ:

Well, they were papers shown to me like this.

106 MS. CLARK:

But you claim you didn't read them?

107 MR. MERAZ:

I didn't read them. No, I didn't.

108 MS. CLARK:

But it was after you were shown those statements that you submitted a statement admitting to having taken the papers out of the Bronco; isn't that right?

109 MR. MERAZ:

That is not right.

110 MS. CLARK:

Did you see the statement that you wrote out for Mr. Viertel?

111 MR. MERAZ:

Excuse me?

112 MS. CLARK:

Did you see the statement that you wrote out for Mr. Viertel?

113 MR. MERAZ:

That I wrote out for Viertel?

114 MS. CLARK:

Yes.

115 MR. MERAZ:

I don't remember me writing a statement to Viertel.

116 MS. CLARK:

You don't recall that? All right. We have time. I'm going to pull that up and show you and I'm going to ask you to identify that. Is that your handwriting?

117 MR. MERAZ:

Okay.

118 MS. CLARK:

Come you, don't recall Mr. Viertel, however, asking you to furnish him with a written statement concerning your position in this matter?

119 MR. MERAZ:

I don't recall that.

120 MS. CLARK:

You don't recall that?

121 MR. MERAZ:

I don't recall ever me signing any statement.

122 MS. CLARK:

You don't recall ever signing a statement concerning your theft of the receipts from the Bronco?

123 MR. MERAZ:

I don't recall that, unless you got something.

KEY QUOTE
124 MS. CLARK:

Oh, you mean you will change your testimony if I show you something?

125 MR. MERAZ:

That is not what I'm saying.

126 MS. CLARK:

What is your testimony, sir? Did you write something out like that or not?

127 MR. MERAZ:

I don't recall myself doing that.

128 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
129 MS. CLARK:

Now, when you went to the Bronco on the 17th and looked in the side pocket where you said--where you claimed you had put the receipt back, they were not there, correct?

130 MR. MERAZ:

That's correct.

131 MS. CLARK:

And in fact they never did turn up again; isn't that correct?

132 MR. MERAZ:

That's correct.

133 MS. CLARK:

And these attorneys, these two attorneys that are sitting here are representing you in your wrongful termination suit?

134 MR. MERAZ:

That's correct.

135 MS. CLARK:

You need two attorneys for that, do you, sir?

136 MR. COCHRAN:

I object to that. Improper question.

137 THE COURT:

Sustained.

138 MS. CLARK:

So you are looking to get some money out of Viertel for what you claim to be a wrongful termination; is that right?

139 MR. MERAZ:

Not necessarily true.

140 MS. CLARK:

You are not seeking money?

141 (No audible response.)
142 MS. CLARK:

You are not seeking money in your wrongful termination suit, are you, Mr. Meraz? Is that it?

143 MR. MERAZ:

If it come my way, yes, I will take it.

KEY QUOTE
144 MS. CLARK:

Have you filed legal papers in your wrongful termination suit, Mr. Meraz?

145 MR. MERAZ:

Yes.

146 MS. CLARK:

And do those legal papers ask for money from Viertel's for being wrongfully fired?

147 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, assume facts a not in evidence. There may be other things that are asked.

148 THE COURT:

Overruled.

149 MR. MERAZ:

I haven't seen any dollars signs on those papers yet because I don't know what we are suing for.

150 MS. CLARK:

Don't those pleadings indicate that you are going to be asking for monetary damages in some amount, if not currently known, then an amount that will be determined at a later time?

151 MR. MERAZ:

That's correct.

152 MS. CLARK:

So you expect to get money, do you not?

153 MR. MERAZ:

That's correct.

154 MS. CLARK:

From the wrongful termination suit?

155 MR. MERAZ:

That's correct.

156 MS. CLARK:

Thank you, Mr. Meraz. And if you testify here in court today that you took those receipts and you kept them and you never put them back in the Bronco, you will lose that suit, won't you, Mr. Meraz?

KEY QUOTE
157 MR. COCHRAN:

Objected to, your Honor. That is a legal conclusion.

158 THE COURT:

Sustained. Rephrase the question.

159 MS. CLARK:

In isn't it true, Mr. Meraz, that your lawyers are sitting here to make sure that you never admit to having put those papers back in the Bronco, that you never admit to stealing those papers?

160 MR. COCHRAN:

I object to the form of the question.

161 THE COURT:

Sustained. Sustained to the form of the question. The jury is to disregard the implication of that question.

162 MS. CLARK:

Mr. Meraz, are you concerned that if you admit to us here today that you stole those receipts from the Bronco and never put them back, that you will lose your wrongful termination suit?

163 MR. MERAZ:

I didn't take them.

164 MS. CLARK:

Could you please answer my question.

165 MR. MERAZ:

I didn't take them.

166 MS. CLARK:

You did take them out of the Bronco, sir, didn't you?

167 MR. MERAZ:

Yes.

168 MS. CLARK:

You did put them in your pocket, didn't you?

169 MR. MERAZ:

Yes.

170 MS. CLARK:

And when you were asked on that very same day that you took them out of the Bronco and put them in your pocket, to empty your pockets, you refused, didn't you?

171 MR. MERAZ:

I sure did.

172 MS. CLARK:

Thank you. Are you concerned, sir, that if you admit that you never put those receipts back in the Bronco that you will lose your wrongful termination suit?

173 MR. COCHRAN:

Objection.

174 THE COURT:

Overruled.

175 MR. MERAZ:

I didn't quite follow. Do you want to repeat that again, please.

176 MS. CLARK:

Yes.

177 MS. CLARK:

Are you concerned that if you admit that you took those receipts out of the Bronco and never returned them you will lose your wrongful termination suit?

178 MR. MERAZ:

All I know is that I put those papers back in there.

KEY QUOTE
179 MS. CLARK:

Can you answer my question, sir?

180 MR. MERAZ:

I assume, yes.

181 MS. CLARK:

Now, when you picked up the Bronco on June the 15th you picked it up from the print shed; is that correct?

182 MR. MERAZ:

That's correct.

183 MS. CLARK:

And the print shed is a big tin building that is enclosed that has doors that close off; isn't that correct?

184 MR. MERAZ:

That's correct.

185 MS. CLARK:

And there is a guard shack in which a police officer is posted to guard the vehicles kept in that print shack; isn't that right?

186 MR. MERAZ:

I have never seen a guard there.

187 MS. CLARK:

Didn't you just testify on direct that you spoke to the guard and told him who you were and he let you in?

188 MR. MERAZ:

The guard shack is across the street at 150 North San Pedro. That is where the guard shack is.

189 MS. CLARK:

And you had to make contact with the person in that guard shack in order to get to the print shed; isn't that right?

190 MR. MERAZ:

I was directed to get there.

191 MS. CLARK:

Didn't you make--didn't you have to make contact with the person in the guard shack to be let into the print shed, sir?

192 MR. MERAZ:

Most of the time when we arrive.

193 MS. CLARK:

I'm asking about June the 15th?

194 MR. MERAZ:

Yes.

195 MS. CLARK:

Thank you. And the Bronco was inside the print shack, wasn't it?

196 MR. MERAZ:

Away from the guard shack, yes.

197 MS. CLARK:

It was inside the print shack, wasn't it?

198 MR. MERAZ:

Yes.

199 MS. CLARK:

Now, when you saw that Bronco for the first time on June the 15th you noticed that a floor mat had been missing, correct?

200 MR. MERAZ:

Correct.

201 MS. CLARK:

Which caused you to conclude, as you testified on direct, that evidence had already been removed from the Bronco at the print shack, correct?

202 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to the form of that question, your Honor.

203 THE COURT:

Overruled.

204 MR. COCHRAN:

Misstates the evidence.

205 THE COURT:

Overruled.

206 MR. MERAZ:

Yes.

207 MS. CLARK:

And as a matter of fact, aren't you also aware that blood had already been removed by Dennis Fung on June the 14th at the print shack?

208 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to the form of the question, your Honor.

209 THE COURT:

Sustained. Foundation.

210 MS. CLARK:

You did not see the Bronco on the 14th; is that correct?

211 MR. MERAZ:

That's correct.

212 MS. CLARK:

You did not see the Bronco on the 13th either; is that correct?

213 MR. MERAZ:

That's correct.

214 MS. CLARK:

When you went over to the Bronco, sir, can you describe to us how you opened the door?

215 MR. MERAZ:

Which time are you asking me on this?

216 MS. CLARK:

I'm talking about the first time you saw it on the 15th.

217 MR. MERAZ:

Hum, I backed the car out, brought it out, got out from the driver's side of the tow truck and walked up to it.

218 MS. CLARK:

Okay. You walked up to the Bronco for the purpose of preparing the hookup; is that right?

219 MR. MERAZ:

Yes.

220 MS. CLARK:

And you were going to leave some paperwork in the car as well, weren't you?

221 MR. MERAZ:

I never left any paperwork in the car.

222 MS. CLARK:

Never put any paperwork inside the car?

223 MR. MERAZ:

Never did.

224 MS. CLARK:

What did you do when you first approached the Bronco itself?

225 MR. MERAZ:

When I pulled it out?

226 MS. CLARK:

You indicated to us on direct, sir, that you went over and went inside the Bronco in some manner when it was in the print shack?

227 MR. MERAZ:

I didn't go into the--into the Bronco in the print shack; it was when I brought it out.

228 MS. CLARK:

So you first hooked it up and pulled it out of the print shack?

229 MR. MERAZ:

Yes.

230 MS. CLARK:

And you did not open the driver's door at all while it was inside the print shack; is that right?

231 MR. MERAZ:

That's correct.

232 MS. CLARK:

After you pulled it out of the print shack you then went into the Bronco itself?

233 MR. MERAZ:

Yes.

234 MS. CLARK:

And did you do that by entering through the driver's side door?

235 MR. MERAZ:

That's correct.

236 MS. CLARK:

And you used your left hand to open the handle?

237 MR. MERAZ:

Might have used my right hand.

238 MS. CLARK:

Is that what you do when you go to the driver's side of a door?

239 MR. COCHRAN:

Object, your Honor, to the form of the question. He answered the question. Object.

240 THE COURT:

Overruled.

241 MS. CLARK:

Just picture what you did. You went over to the driver's side of the car to open the door. Do you have a picture in your mind of the way that handle looked?

242 MR. MERAZ:

I have a picture of it, yes.

243 MS. CLARK:

What kind of handle is it, Mr. Meraz?

244 MR. MERAZ:

Oh, it is a handle where you stick your hand and pull up on it and it pulls out.

245 MS. CLARK:

Okay. You used your right hand to open it?

246 MR. MERAZ:

Left.

247 MS. CLARK:

Left hand.

248 MR. MERAZ:

Correction, left.

249 MS. CLARK:

And when you used your left hand to open the door, that driver's side door, you didn't see any blood on the door?

250 MR. MERAZ:

When I opened it?

251 MS. CLARK:

Right.

252 MR. MERAZ:

I looked at the door.

253 MS. CLARK:

And did you see any blood?

254 MR. MERAZ:

I didn't see any.

255 MS. CLARK:

Did you ever see any blood on the driver's side of that door?

256 MR. MERAZ:

I didn't see any blood. I didn't see any.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (5)

Marcia Clark
Thank you, Mr. Meraz. And if you testify here in court today that you took those receipts and you kept them and you never put them back in the Bronco, you will lose that suit, won't you, Mr. Meraz?
The core of Clark's cross — she argues Meraz's testimony is shaped entirely by his financial interest in the wrongful termination suit, not truth.
John Meraz
If it come my way, yes, I will take it.
Meraz's candid admission that he expects money from the wrongful termination suit, confirming his financial motive to testify favorably.
John Meraz
I didn't take them. I didn't take them.
Meraz denies stealing the receipts even as Clark has already gotten him to admit he did — demonstrating the contradictions in his testimony driven by the pending lawsuit.
John Meraz
I don't recall that, unless you got something.
Meraz conditions his memory on whether Clark can produce documentary evidence, giving the impression he will only admit what he cannot deny.
John Meraz
All I know is that I put those papers back in there.
Meraz's stubborn claim that he returned the receipts — disputed by the fact they were never found when he went back to the Bronco on June 17th.

Evidence (6)

Informal
Receipts taken from the side pocket of OJ Simpson's Ford Bronco
discussed — Meraz admits taking them, disputes whether he returned them
Informal
Written statements from fellow Viertel's employees who saw Meraz with the receipts
referenced by Clark during cross to challenge Meraz's account of the June 17th confrontation
Informal
Meraz's own handwritten statement to Viertel
referenced by Clark; Meraz claims he does not recall writing or signing any such statement
Informal
Pretrial hearing transcript page 5389
used to impeach Meraz's denial that he lied to Viertel on June 17th
Informal
Missing floor mat from the Bronco
discussed — Meraz testified on direct that the missing mat led him to believe evidence had already been removed at the print shack
Informal
Blood on the driver's side door of the Bronco
Clark asks Meraz whether he observed blood when he opened the driver's door on June 15th; Meraz says he saw none

Notable Exchanges (4)

Marcia ClarkJohn Meraz
Clark methodically corners Meraz on his financial motive, getting him to admit he expects money from his wrongful termination suit, then pressing that his trial testimony is shaped by what he can or cannot admit without losing that case.
strategic
Marcia ClarkJohn Meraz
Clark reads from the pretrial transcript at page 5389 showing Meraz admitted to initially denying the theft to Viertel on June 17th; Meraz disputes the context, claiming the prior answer referred only to Jones not Viertel, leading to a confusing multi-way exchange involving Judge Ito and Cochran.
heated
Marcia ClarkJohn Meraz
Clark asks whether Meraz's two personal attorneys sitting in court are there to prevent him from admitting he never returned the receipts; Ito sustains the objection and tells the jury to disregard the implication.
provocative
Marcia ClarkJohn Meraz
Clark walks Meraz through the physical mechanics of opening the Bronco's driver's side door — which hand, what kind of handle — before establishing he saw no blood on the door.
methodical

Light Moments (1)

Marcia Clark
Clark asks Meraz whether he really needs two attorneys to handle a wrongful termination suit.

Credibility Attacks (3)

⚔ John Meraz
bias / financial motive
Clark establishes that Meraz has a pending wrongful termination suit seeking monetary damages, and that admitting he stole and never returned the Bronco receipts could destroy that case — giving him a concrete reason to maintain a false account.
⚔ John Meraz
prior inconsistent statement
Clark reads from the pretrial transcript (page 5389) showing Meraz previously admitted to initially denying the theft to Viertel on June 17th, contradicting his current testimony that he never lied to Viertel.
⚔ John Meraz
implausible memory / selective recollection
Meraz claims no memory of writing or signing any statement for Viertel about the receipts, and says he did not read the written employee statements shown to him — positions Clark treats as convenient rather than genuine.

Witness Demeanor

Meraz repeatedly hedges or conditions answers on whether Clark can produce documentation
Meraz corrects himself mid-answer on which hand he used to open the Bronco door ('Might have used my right hand' → 'Left. Correction, left.')
Meraz at multiple points says 'That is not true' with apparent conviction but is then confronted with his own prior testimony

Objections

12 objections (4 sustained, 8 overruled)
Proceeding 6913 • 256 utterances • Defense witness
Criminal Trial
Department 103
⚖️ Start
📂 JUL 19, 1995 📄 Cross-examination of John Mera
JUL 19, 1995 KRT DvH TD