📄 Cross-examination of Dr. Robert Huizenga (part 4) — Monday, July 17, 1995
Address:
C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\JUL\17\CROSS-EXAMINATION-OF-DR-ROBERT.DOC
TRIAL
▲ Day 116 of 167

Cross-examination of Dr. Robert Huizenga (part 4)

Witness: Dr. Robert Huizenga
Examiner: Brian Kelberg
Called by: Defense • Date: Monday, July 17, 1995 • Utterances: 131
Prosecution cross-examines defense medical expert Dr. Robert Huizenga about abrasions found on OJ Simpson's left hand and wrist during the June 15th examination. Kelberg uses photographs and a physical demonstration — actually grabbing Huizenga from behind in a 'bar arm hold' — to suggest the abrasions are consistent with a perpetrator restraining Ron Goldman while stabbing him. Huizenga concedes the scenario is possible but hedges throughout.
1 THE COURT:

Proceed.

2 MR. KELBERG:

Let me reask the question. I think I started with a question. Doctor, what are you and Dr. Baden doing in this photograph?

3 MR. SHAPIRO:

Objection. Compound.

4 THE COURT:

Sustained.

5 MR. KELBERG:

What are you doing in this photograph, doctor?

6 MR. SHAPIRO:

Objection. He doesn't appear to be in the photograph.

7 THE COURT:

Overruled.

8 MR. KELBERG:

I think he just identified himself, Mr. Shapiro, in the--

9 MR. SHAPIRO:

He's not doing anything.

10 THE COURT:

Overruled. Counsel.

11 MR. KELBERG:

You may answer the question, doctor. What are you doing in this photograph?

12 DR. HUIZENGA:

Looks like I'm just standing there. I have no idea what I'm doing.

13 MR. KELBERG:

Are you looking at anything in particular?

14 DR. HUIZENGA:

I have no recollection of exactly what I might have been doing with that particular procedure. I think that what we did there was, as I said, he and Dr. Lee were present on the 17th, and basically just to make sure that the correct photographs were taken--and, again, they're the ones that were going to handle what the cuts were, what they meant, how to age them--the entire hand was rephotographed. And I believe, if I had to take a guess what was going on, this was just a picture I believe taken by Dr. Lee that was the start of this whole process of reexamining his entire body with those two specialists there. Again, no one wanted to rely on--that wasn't really my role. And so at this point, they were rephotographing his entire hands as well as his entire body.

15 MR. KELBERG:

Thank you, your Honor. I think we're done with the photograph.

16 MR. KELBERG:

Let me ask Mr. Fairtlough then if he would please put your rough sketch, 514, back up. Now, doctor, let's--let me ask you if there is anything inconsistent from your examination that the injuries that you've identified in this drawing could have been caused by different sources at different times.

17 DR. HUIZENGA:

I think that's--

18 MR. SHAPIRO:

Calls for speculation, beyond the scope.

19 THE COURT:

Overruled.

20 MR. KELBERG:

You may answer the question, doctor.

21 DR. HUIZENGA:

I think it's possible. But again, it was difficult because the injuries were of quite different nature as I explained before. And so while they could all have been incurred at the exact same moment, they also could have been at a slightly different time. Again, the time frame of one or two days certainly with my expertise would be very difficult for me to tell the difference when you have cuts that have different entry angulation and, therefore, different healing rates. You also--of course, the healing is dependent on how much laxity there is in the skin. So depending on where the laceration is in the finger in terms of, is there motion on that joint, is it an area where there's really no motion, is it an area over the third finger where there's swollen joints, and so obviously the skin will be pulled back, all those factors, even if everything were cut exactly the same moment, it could appear I would think absolutely difficult and the healing rate could be quite different. I think all of us have had the experience where you get multiple cuts and some heal much quicker than others. Typically the ones over your joint will be the one that just keeps breaking open and bleeding, you know, for extended periods.

22 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, would it be then fair to say though that given the different nature of appearance between the three cuts that are identified in this hand-drawn sketch, that that is suggestive that the injuries may have been caused by different sources?

23 DR. HUIZENGA:

It's very difficult to say. It's very difficult to say, but there is various theories because if you take--take a hand where the majority of the injuries are right here (Indicating), right here and right here on the left hand and then as we discussed before, there is a fine abrasion right here and you kind of had some system like that and the injuries are kind of along this gray, it could be possible that they were all caused at the same time by the same substance as well.

24 MR. KELBERG:

For the record, the doctor took his left hand and with the palms up, he made an up and down motion I think several times, your Honor, with that forearm and hand as if, doctor, to represent striking some surface; is that correct?

25 DR. HUIZENGA:

Some surface or some sharp thing, correct.

26 MR. KELBERG:

Now, doctor, if that had been the situation, wouldn't you expect to see contusions to the areas along the knuckles that come in contact with the hard surface in the action that you just demonstrated?

27 DR. HUIZENGA:

Again, it's very difficult depending on the force of the blow and, no. 2, depending on whether, you know, someone strikes something that is sharp right up front or somebody basically rubs their hand over the sharp surface. That's a tough call.

28 MR. KELBERG:

Your Honor, I have another photograph. May this be marked--a color photograph, what appears to be the left hand. May this be marked as 516?

29 THE COURT:

Yes.

30 (Peo's 516 for id = photograph)
31 MR. KELBERG:

And I'll ask Mr. Fairtlough--and perhaps reduce the glare in some fashion. And I'm going to be asking you, Mr. Fairtlough, if you could focus more on the wrist area for the moment. Exactly. That's perfect. And if you can also do some kind of carrot. Exactly. If you move it straight down, straight down, please, and now to the left and--a little more and down just a tad. Right there.

32 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, do you see where the arrow has stopped here?

33 DR. HUIZENGA:

Yes, I do.

34 MR. KELBERG:

You testified at the end of your direct examination by Mr. Shapiro that you did identify a couple of abrasions. You described them as punctate abrasions; is that correct?

35 DR. HUIZENGA:

There were a number of abrasions. I believe the punctate ones were more--you can see them right on--as I look at this picture, on the left-hand side, you can see a dot and then another dot. Those are the punctate lesions, and then there were several other--these other small abrasions which were, you know, more in the I think something like a quarter by an eighth inch and an eighth by an eighth (Indicating).

36 MR. KELBERG:

First of all, let me ask you if this was your testimony, page 366, of the real time transcript. "Other than those on the 15th," referring to the cuts that you've already testified to, "There was no other evidence of any trauma except for several very small little punctate abrasions that were also on the back of his left palm, but they were--appeared to be basically zigzag areas of maybe several sonometers which were very superficial irritation scrapings of some sort." Do you recall that testimony?

37 DR. HUIZENGA:

Yes, I do.

38 MR. KELBERG:

Did that testimony refer to what we are seeing under the carrot here?

39 DR. HUIZENGA:

That did include those areas. There's a straight area you can't see on this picture and then there are these several dots, and then there are these other two areas, yes.

40 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, would you describe this as the back of the left palm as you--

41 DR. HUIZENGA:

Yes, I would.

42 MR. KELBERG:

All right. And that is an abrasion; is that correct?

43 DR. HUIZENGA:

Yes, it is.

44 MR. KELBERG:

Is that an injury--that's a blunt force trauma type of injury, correct?

45 DR. HUIZENGA:

It could be a blunt force, but more likely some sort of a scrape or--

46 MR. KELBERG:

Well, let's assume Dr. Lakshmanan has testified that blunt force trauma is a category of certain kinds of injuries which includes abrasions, contusions, lacerations. Any reason to disagree with that analysis?

47 MR. SHAPIRO:

Objection to the form of the question.

48 THE COURT:

Overruled.

49 MR. KELBERG:

You may answer the question, doctor.

50 DR. HUIZENGA:

Say that one more time. Let me hear--

51 MR. KELBERG:

If Dr. Lakshmanan testified that blunt force trauma is a generalized category of types of injuries that includes abrasions, contusions and lacerations, would you have any reason to disagree with that?

52 DR. HUIZENGA:

No, I wouldn't.

53 MR. KELBERG:

And as he also testified and I'll ask you to assume that an abrasion is a scraping type action. Is that consistent with what you identified on what appears to be the lateral side of the little finger where--of the area near the little finger's base of the left wrist?

54 DR. HUIZENGA:

Right. It's actually over the carpal bones on the left side, the ulnar side of the carpal bones, yes.

55 MR. KELBERG:

That's one abrasion?

56 DR. HUIZENGA:

Correct.

57 MR. KELBERG:

And did that appear to be of the same vintage age wise as the cuts that you were looking at on the third and fourth fingers of Mr. Simpson's left hand?

58 DR. HUIZENGA:

The finger cuts were still open and this appeared to be somewhat more healed on the 15th.

59 MR. KELBERG:

But an abrasion doesn't have the appearance of a cut, does it, doctor?

60 DR. HUIZENGA:

No, it does not.

61 MR. KELBERG:

And so the fact that a cut is open is not relevant to the degree of healing of an abrasion; isn't that correct?

62 DR. HUIZENGA:

That's correct.

63 MR. KELBERG:

All right. If Mr. Fairtlough can--can you circle that, please, Mr. Fairtlough? So we'll call that abrasion no. 1 just for keeping a count if we could. Mr. Fairtlough, would you move the arrow to the right, along the--oh, okay. You do it that way. Little further. Right there.

64 MR. KELBERG:

Now, doctor, is that another abrasion that you identified on June 15th?

65 DR. HUIZENGA:

Yes, it is.

66 MR. KELBERG:

And in fact, in your diagram--is this going to really--Mr. Fairtlough--no. I'll tell you what. Before we get to the diagram, did it appear to be of about the same vintage as the first abrasion?

67 DR. HUIZENGA:

Yes, it did.

68 MR. KELBERG:

And if Mr. Fairtlough could circle that. May I approach again, your Honor?

69 THE COURT:

You may.

70 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, showing you this diagram that we already had up from exhibit 507, did you write in on that form the location and description of those two things we're looking at on this photograph, exhibit 515?

71 DR. HUIZENGA:

Yes, I did.

72 MR. KELBERG:

What was your measurement of what we've described here as abrasion no. 1, the one that is closer to the fingers?

73 DR. HUIZENGA:

I put that that was--the closer to the fingers?

74 MR. KELBERG:

Yes.

75 DR. HUIZENGA:

Approximately one sonometer.

76 MR. KELBERG:

And one sonometer you said on Friday you thought was 2.2 centimeters to the inch and I think--

77 DR. HUIZENGA:

We'll correct it to 2.54. So it's basically--

78 MR. KELBERG:

Third of an inch maybe?

79 DR. HUIZENGA:

A third of an inch.

80 MR. KELBERG:

And how about abrasion no. 2? Did you measure that one?

81 DR. HUIZENGA:

Yes, I did.

82 MR. KELBERG:

How long was that one?

83 DR. HUIZENGA:

I marked it was approximately a half of a sonometer.

84 MR. KELBERG:

So that's about a sixth of an inch?

85 DR. HUIZENGA:

Correct.

86 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, in your opinion, was each of those consistent with some kind of scraping such as, for example, a fingernail?

87 DR. HUIZENGA:

Didn't appear to be a fingernail, but obviously, if you catch a fingernail flush, that would be a possibility. But typically you're looking for some kind of a curve. You know, we see obviously a lot of fingernails in the eyeball. I guess that's where I've had the most experience where you can see that characteristic curvature and, you know, usually scrapes on the skin are a little wider than, you know, the scrape he had. But that certainly was something that I entertained.

88 MR. KELBERG:

Well, doctor, let me ask you hypothetically to assume that Dr. Lakshmanan testified that he identified on Mr. Goldman's neck two superficial incise wounds semiparallel in nature running along the front of his neck. All right?

89 DR. HUIZENGA:

Okay.

90 MR. KELBERG:

Assume that? And further, that he offered an opinion that those two superficial incise wounds were consistent with being inflicted by a person holding a knife in the right hand who had Mr. Goldman from behind controlled with a left arm around the chest area. Do you have a pretty good picture of that?

91 DR. HUIZENGA:

Yes.

92 MR. KELBERG:

And in such a situation, doctor, would it be accurate to say that the area that you see, the two abrasions in this photograph, would be exposed to the outside if it's in the position that I've got right here, a bar arm type of hold across the chest?

93 DR. HUIZENGA:

I think that is a possibility. You'd really have to rotate it out because you see this ulnar styloid is sticking out right here (Indicating), and so, you know, you really have to--let's see. You're saying--

94 MR. KELBERG:

No.

95 DR. HUIZENGA:

Left hand.

96 MR. KELBERG:

The left hand, the left arm--I want you to assume and--

97 DR. HUIZENGA:

It will take me a little time to work this out. I'm not just going to do this instantly.

98 MR. KELBERG:

I think we can help with you this.

99 MR. KELBERG:

Your Honor, with the Court's permission, could Dr. Huizenga step down, please?

100 THE COURT:

Yes.

101 MR. KELBERG:

And, doctor, if you will take on a role that I played a little earlier in this trial and perhaps you could face the jury, and I'm going to represent Dr. Lakshmanan by putting my arm--I don't have as long a arm as he has--around your chest. And that he then with his right arm holding--appearing to hold a knife made some slashing gestures with his right hand to represent how quanting type of parallel cuts could be inflicted. You with me so far?

102 DR. HUIZENGA:

Yes.

103 MR. KELBERG:

Now, in this position that I'm in, would it be correct to say--I've got a watch on. Let me take the watch off. Would it be correct to say, doctor, that the area of Mr. Simpson's hand and wrist and arm where we see those two abrasions would be in this position to the outside of Mr. Goldman (Indicating)?

104 MR. SHAPIRO:

Objection. Calls for speculation.

105 THE COURT:

Overruled.

106 MR. KELBERG:

You may answer the question, doctor, just as I've got my hand in this position.

107 DR. HUIZENGA:

It's possible. But if you just--in this position, I still feel your ulnar styloid sticking out a little bit right here (Indicating). So I still think you could abrade this area, but then why didn't you abrade this area if you've got this area because you almost have to be like this somehow to get both those. If you're coming in curving toward me, you're sticking out this ulnar styloid.

108 MR. KELBERG:

What if I'm not curving, doctor, but I've got you like I got you now where I'm applying the pressure, and I think you'll verify the pressure is being applied right here, is it not, and this area is up (Indicating). I just want to ask you--

109 MR. SHAPIRO:

Your Honor, I hope he's not hurting the doctor with all this pressure.

110 MR. KELBERG:

Not in the slightest, am I, doctor?

111 DR. HUIZENGA:

No.

112 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor--

113 DR. HUIZENGA:

Not yet.

114 THE COURT:

He's a wrestler, counsel.

KEY QUOTE
115 MR. KELBERG:

I'm sure he could throw me in a second, your Honor.

116 THE COURT:

Yes.

117 MR. KELBERG:

The question, doctor--and this is the only question--is this area that is on the outside of your body the area that is depicted in the photograph that's up on the elmo?

118 DR. HUIZENGA:

Yes, it is.

119 MR. KELBERG:

All right. Now, you can retake the stand.

120 DR. HUIZENGA:

Thank you. (The witness complies.)

121 MR. KELBERG:

And, doctor, if Mr. Goldman was trying to get the knife or the arm that's holding the knife at his throat away from him and he's grappling to try and get free, would you agree, doctor, that if he rubs along the left edge of the left hand of the perpetrator, if that position of the perpetrator's arm was as I demonstrated, that that could be a source for such abrasions?

122 MR. SHAPIRO:

Objection. Calls for speculation.

123 THE COURT:

Overruled.

124 DR. HUIZENGA:

Certainly abrasions could be caused by that type of a motion. Whether or not they would be in that exact location, again, I would have to look at the exact dimensions of Mr. Simpson's arm. And, you know, this is like a lot of medicine, you have to do a test, you know. That's what science is all about.

KEY QUOTE
125 MR. KELBERG:

You have to do a test. What test did you do to see Mr. Simpson ever attempt to run to see how well he could run? Did you ever ask him to run at any time?

KEY QUOTE
126 DR. HUIZENGA:

I never asked him to run.

127 MR. KELBERG:

And that would be the best test, would it not, to see how well he could run given his arthritic condition as you found it?

128 DR. HUIZENGA:

He told me he could not run and you're right, I took him at his word.

KEY QUOTE
129 MR. KELBERG:

Your Honor, I think we're up to is it 517?

130 THE COURT:

517.

131 MR. KELBERG:

I have another photograph that appears to show the left arm. May that be marked as that designation? And I've written it on the back of that photograph.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (4)

Dr. Robert Huizenga
He told me he could not run and you're right, I took him at his word.
Kelberg exposes that Huizenga never actually tested Simpson's mobility claim — he simply accepted the defendant's self-reporting, undermining the defense's arthritis narrative.
Dr. Robert Huizenga
Certainly abrasions could be caused by that type of a motion. Whether or not they would be in that exact location, again, I would have to look at the exact dimensions of Mr. Simpson's arm.
Partial concession that the abrasions are consistent with the prosecution's Goldman-restraint theory, while Huizenga tries to avoid full agreement.
Brian Kelberg
You have to do a test. What test did you do to see Mr. Simpson ever attempt to run to see how well he could run?
Sharp impeachment: Kelberg turns Huizenga's own 'science requires testing' logic against the doctor's failure to verify Simpson's claimed inability to run.
Lance A. Ito
He's a wrestler, counsel.
Ito's rare quip during the physical demonstration; one of the few light moments in the proceeding.

Evidence (5)

People's 514
Huizenga's rough sketch of Simpson's injuries
discussed
People's 516
Color photograph of Simpson's left hand showing wrist area abrasions
introduced, discussed
People's 507
Huizenga's injury diagram form with measurements
discussed
People's 515
Photograph referenced during the bar-arm hold demonstration
discussed
People's 517
Photograph of Simpson's left arm (marked at end of excerpt)
introduced

Notable Exchanges (3)

Brian KelbergDr. Robert Huizenga
Kelberg physically grabbed Huizenga from behind in a 'bar arm hold' to demonstrate how a perpetrator restraining Goldman from behind could have caused the two abrasions on Simpson's left wrist. Huizenga stepped down from the stand to participate, ultimately confirming the exposed area matched the photograph.
strategic
Brian KelbergDr. Robert Huizenga
Kelberg used Huizenga's own statement that 'science requires testing' to highlight that Huizenga never asked Simpson to actually run, accepting his claim of inability at face value.
devastating
Robert ShapiroBrian KelbergLance A. Ito
During the physical demonstration, Shapiro quipped he hoped Kelberg wasn't hurting the doctor; Kelberg deflected to Huizenga who said 'Not yet,' prompting Ito to joke that Huizenga is a wrestler.
light

Light Moments (3)

Robert Shapiro
Shapiro objected that Kelberg was applying too much pressure on the doctor during the physical demonstration: 'Your Honor, I hope he's not hurting the doctor with all this pressure.'
Dr. Robert Huizenga
Huizenga, after saying he wasn't being hurt by Kelberg's grip, added 'Not yet.'
Lance A. Ito
Judge Ito quipped 'He's a wrestler, counsel' after Kelberg said he was sure Huizenga could throw him.

Credibility Attacks (2)

⚔ Dr. Robert Huizenga
failure to test, reliance on defendant's self-reporting
Kelberg established that Huizenga never asked Simpson to run or physically tested his mobility, accepting Simpson's claim that he could not run entirely on the defendant's word.
⚔ Dr. Robert Huizenga
prior testimony inconsistency / eliciting concession
Kelberg read back Huizenga's direct examination testimony about 'punctate abrasions' and then used photographs to show additional abrasions beyond what Huizenga had emphasized, suggesting incomplete or minimizing characterization of Simpson's injuries.

Witness Demeanor

(The witness complies.) — Huizenga returns to the stand after the physical demonstration

Objections

7 objections (1 sustained, 5 overruled)
Proceeding 6867 • 131 utterances • Defense witness
Criminal Trial
Department 103
⚖️ Start
📂 JUL 17, 1995 📄 Cross-examination of Dr. Rober
JUL 17, 1995 KRT DvH TD