Redirect examination of Robert Heidstra (part 3)

📄 Redirect examination of Robert Heidstra (part 3) — Wednesday, July 12, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\JUL\12\REDIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-ROBERT.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 113 of 167

◀ Redirect examination of Robert Heidstra (part 2) Recross-examination of Robert Heidstra (part 1) ▶

Witness: Robert Heidstra
Examiner: Johnnie Cochran
Called by: Defense • Date: Wednesday, July 12, 1995 • Utterances: 259

Cochran conducts redirect examination of neighbor Robert Heidstra, rehabilitating his credibility and reinforcing his timeline testimony placing a white vehicle fleeing the Bundy crime scene around 10:45 PM. Cochran elicits emphatic denials that Heidstra ever claimed to hear a 'black man's voice,' and underscores that Heidstra declined to sell his story to tabloids despite financial pressure. The post-recess session captures an extended out-of-jury sidebar about a missing tape recording and sketch from a forthcoming witness named Lang.

# 1 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yes, a loud barking.

# 2 MR. DARDEN:

Leading, your Honor.

# 3 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 4 MR. COCHRAN:

Did the voices--did the dogs barking in any way affect your ability to hear?

# 5 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Oh, yes. I could hear nothing, almost nothing, just the two voices very fast, very quick.

# 6 MR. COCHRAN:

And have you ever at any time told--

# 7 THE COURT:

Excuse me. I'm sorry, counsel. Would you have the witness pull the microphone--

# 8 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Sorry.

# 9 MR. COCHRAN:

Thank you.

# 10 MR. COCHRAN:

Have you ever at any time told anyone that you heard the voice of a black man?

# 11 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Never, never said that.

KEY QUOTE

# 12 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, you went on to tell them, did you not, that: "All the while the Akita continued to bark nonstop during this period of time," right?

# 13 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Nonstop.

# 14 MR. DARDEN:

Objection. He is skipping some lines.

# 15 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 16 MR. COCHRAN:

"All the way the Akita continued to dark nonstop and in fact continued to bark until about eleven o'clock"?

# 17 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Right.

# 18 MR. COCHRAN:

Just like you told us here in court, right?

# 19 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Sure, sure.

# 20 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. You went on to tell them that: "As Mr. Heidstra reached Dorothy Street he looked west and observed a large white vehicle." You were looking back toward Bundy; is that correct?

# 21 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Exactly.

# 22 MR. COCHRAN:

When we talk about looking west on this diagram, you described that you are on Dorothy and you are looking back?

# 23 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Down, yeah, west.

# 24 MR. COCHRAN:

Toward where Bundy is; is that right?

# 25 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yes.

# 26 MR. COCHRAN:

You told the officers at that time you saw a large vehicle, large white vehicle, right?

# 27 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yeah, like a wagon or a Jeep or that car.

# 28 MR. COCHRAN:

You said it was shaped similar to a Chevrolet Blazer that was parked in your carport?

# 29 MR. HEIDSTRA:

They pointed at the Blazer and said, "Is that the size of the car?" And I said, "Yeah, it looks like the size of the car."

# 30 MR. COCHRAN:

The interview was in the sub-part of your garage; is that correct?

# 31 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Right, right, right.

# 32 MR. COCHRAN:

You went on to tell them that: "This vehicle went south on Bundy Drive and drove from the location at a high rate of speed," right?

# 33 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Sure.

# 34 MR. COCHRAN:

You have always indicated that vehicle turned and went south on Bundy toward Wilshire?

# 35 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Definitely. Definitely.

# 36 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, when you talked to Detective Payne and Parker, at that time were you telling them the truth?

# 37 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Sure. Telling them the truth.

# 38 MR. COCHRAN:

And were you trying to be a witness for either the Prosecution or the Defense at that point?

# 39 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Not at all. Just giving the information.

# 40 MR. COCHRAN:

Were you trying to make any money at that time off this?

# 41 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Never did.

# 42 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, have you had opportunities to sell your story to various tabloids?

# 43 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Of course.

# 44 MR. COCHRAN:

Prior to now?

# 45 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Sure. I never did.

# 46 MR. COCHRAN:

Have you had an opportunity to sell your story to TV programs and do that?

# 47 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yeah. I never did.

# 48 MR. COCHRAN:

So the fact that you might not have the newest car in the world, you have not succumbed to selling your story to make some money, have you?

# 49 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Absolutely not.

# 50 MR. COCHRAN:

And you work hard everyday, don't you?

# 51 MR. HEIDSTRA:

You bet.

# 52 MR. COCHRAN:

That is honest work?

# 53 MR. HEIDSTRA:

It is honest work, hard work.

# 54 MR. COCHRAN:

As you go about you do the best you can for your clients?

# 55 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Sure.

# 56 MR. COCHRAN:

Do you support yourself with that work?

# 57 MR. HEIDSTRA:

I do. Not easy, but I do.

# 58 MR. COCHRAN:

You work hard to make your money?

# 59 MR. HEIDSTRA:

You bet. Six days a week.

# 60 MR. COCHRAN:

You work six days a week?

# 61 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Six days.

# 62 MR. COCHRAN:

Are you proud of what you do?

# 63 MR. HEIDSTRA:

I'm proud, I'm happy.

# 64 MR. COCHRAN:

Are you happy with your dogs even though they live with you at that apartment?

# 65 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Oh, sure, I love it.

# 66 MR. COCHRAN:

And you lived at this apartment for how many years?

# 67 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Oh, 17 years.

# 68 MR. COCHRAN:

Do you like it after 17 years?

# 69 MR. HEIDSTRA:

I live there still. I must like it somehow.

KEY QUOTE

# 70 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, you were asked a number of questions about your contacts with the Defense. Has anybody from the Defense ever said anything to you about making any money on this case?

# 71 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Never.

# 72 MR. COCHRAN:

Have you ever discussed that with anybody from the Defense? You never have, have you?

# 73 MR. HEIDSTRA:

No, never.

# 74 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, with regard to the time, Mr. Darden asked you a series of questions about the time that night. Prior to June 12th of 1994, how many times would you say you walked that route that you took that night in walking your dogs? How many times?

# 75 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Boy, in 17 years it must be hundreds of times.

# 76 MR. COCHRAN:

17 years you have been doing that?

# 77 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Well, the dogs are 14, so 15 years.

# 78 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. So the oldest dog is 14 and you had the dog since the dog was a baby?

# 79 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yeah, sure.

# 80 MR. COCHRAN:

So the oldest dog is 14 years so would it be correct to say that you have been walking that dog at least for the fourteen years or so?

# 81 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Oh, sure.

# 82 MR. COCHRAN:

And you have talked to us about age and I can't go into that any more, but at any rate, did--you have told us the route, so are you pretty aware of how long it takes for you to walk that route with those two dogs, given their physical condition and given their age?

# 83 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Oh, sure. So long so many times I know exactly the time it take every night.

# 84 MR. COCHRAN:

So is there any doubt in your mind that at the time that you first heard the barking of what you think was the Akita that it was approximately 10:35 in the evening? Any doubt in your mind?

# 85 MR. HEIDSTRA:

10:30, 10:35.

# 86 MR. DARDEN:

Objection, leading.

# 87 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 88 MR. COCHRAN:

No doubt in your mind regarding that?

# 89 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yeah, sure.

# 90 MR. COCHRAN:

And then when you moved--you moved from one location to the back of the house and the garage that you were shown--

# 91 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Uh-huh.

# 92 MR. COCHRAN:

--is there any doubt in your mind that was approximately 10:40?

# 93 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yeah, around 10:40 slow walking bark with the dog. I repeat it again, very slow.

# 94 MR. COCHRAN:

No doubt in your blind about the time, 10:40?

# 95 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Around this time, 10:40.

# 96 MR. COCHRAN:

Then when you got on your street, on Dorothy Street and you looked back and you saw this vehicle that you described, this white wagon or whatever you described for us--

# 97 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yeah.

# 98 MR. COCHRAN:

--or Jeep, when you looked back and that vehicle was turning to go south, did you tell us it was about 10:45 at that point?

# 99 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Must have been around 10:45.

# 100 MR. COCHRAN:

Are you pretty clear about that time?

# 101 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yes.

# 102 MR. COCHRAN:

And then you went home?

# 103 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Slowly went back home, yes.

# 104 MR. COCHRAN:

And with regard to the anchors that came on this particular night, do you know the weekend anchors in Los Angeles to identify them by name?

# 105 MR. HEIDSTRA:

No.

# 106 MR. COCHRAN:

At the various television stations?

# 107 MR. HEIDSTRA:

I don't know. I have just--

# 108 MR. COCHRAN:

You just turn the television on to watch the news?

# 109 MR. HEIDSTRA:

If somebody tell me the name I will remember maybe.

# 110 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. So your best recollection is that you were watching ABC channel 7 that evening?

# 111 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yeah, most of the time.

# 112 MR. COCHRAN:

You are clear that when you got home that the news was coming on itself; is that right?

# 113 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yeah, it was already--the news had just started.

# 114 MR. COCHRAN:

And you knew that to make it around eleven o'clock or thereabouts, right?

# 115 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Just starting 11:00, yeah.

# 116 MR. COCHRAN:

And you had left home because you looked at your watch at 10:15?

# 117 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Exactly, yes.

# 118 MR. COCHRAN:

When is the last time that you saw Miss Patricia Baret?

# 119 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Oh, a few weeks ago, three weeks or something like that.

# 120 MR. COCHRAN:

Was that while you were working with--

# 121 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yeah, I come always in front to get the keys.

# 122 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. She is still working for the same gentleman?

# 123 MR. HEIDSTRA:

She is still there.

# 124 MR. COCHRAN:

That is the same gentleman you are working with?

# 125 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yeah.

# 126 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, Mr. Darden asked some questions and you told him at one point that somebody had indicated to you that you were a crucial witness, one of the detectives. Do you remember that?

# 127 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yes, Mr. Payne.

# 128 MR. COCHRAN:

Was that Detective Payne?

# 129 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Detective Payne, yes.

# 130 MR. COCHRAN:

When did he tell you you were a crucial witness?

# 131 MR. HEIDSTRA:

When?

# 132 MR. COCHRAN:

When did he say that to you?

# 133 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Oh, that was just a little later than when he took me on my interview. He looked at me and said, "Robert, you are a crucial witness for us."

# 134 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And that would be around the time of the statement I just read you that took place on June 21st?

# 135 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yeah. A little later probably I met him.

# 136 MR. COCHRAN:

And then yesterday we talked about the fact that you came down here to this building and you saw Mr. Hodgman and Miss Clark in this building. Do you remember that?

# 137 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yeah, sure.

# 138 MR. COCHRAN:

And at that time had Detective Payne at that point indicated to you you were a crucial witness?

# 139 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yeah.

# 140 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. So he had already said it by that point?

# 141 MR. HEIDSTRA:

He said it.

# 142 MR. COCHRAN:

At that time Mr. Hodgman was coordinating things in this--strike that. You wouldn't know. Strike that. At any rate, Mr. Hodgman was part of the Prosecution team?

# 143 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Sure. I met him, yes.

# 144 MR. COCHRAN:

It was in his office that you met?

# 145 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yeah. He was behind a desk so I assume.

# 146 MR. COCHRAN:

And Miss Clark was there?

# 147 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Right.

# 148 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Now, after that do you recall--I think this response to one of Mr. Darden's questions you mentioned that you were out walking your dog or dogs, at one point you saw Detective Payne go by and you were out on the street?

# 149 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yeah. I was walking my dog and they came by with Mr. Hodgman and he waved at me and they talked very quick to me in the car.

# 150 MR. COCHRAN:

You recognized Mr. Hodgman from having seen him down here in his office?

# 151 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Oh, sure, sure.

# 152 MR. COCHRAN:

Miss Clark wasn't with him at that point?

# 153 MR. HEIDSTRA:

No.

# 154 MR. COCHRAN:

You saw Detective Payne?

# 155 MR. HEIDSTRA:

He was driving.

# 156 MR. COCHRAN:

And they waved to you?

# 157 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yeah, they said "Hi, Robert."

# 158 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Now, the fact that you weren't called by the Prosecution after all their contacts with you, you are not mad at the Prosecution, are you?

# 159 MR. HEIDSTRA:

No. I was disappointed maybe, but I was not mad.

# 160 MR. COCHRAN:

Why were you disappointed?

# 161 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Because they called me a crucial witness and I felt what I heard and what I saw might be important for them.

KEY QUOTE

# 162 MR. COCHRAN:

And then you were subpoenaed by the Defense; is that correct?

# 163 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yes.

# 164 MR. COCHRAN:

The fact that you were subpoenaed by the Defense, did that in any way make you change your testimony at all?

# 165 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Not at all.

# 166 MR. COCHRAN:

And when I just read you the statement that you gave to Detective Payne back on June 21st, was that the same thing you told us here in court?

# 167 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Exactly.

# 168 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, with regard to the interview with Mr. Darden on or about I guess May 29th, 1995, in that interview--

# 169 MR. DARDEN:

Objection to the form of the question. I don't think it was an interview.

# 170 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 171 MR. COCHRAN:

In that interview Mr. Darden did most of the questioning, is that what you indicated to us?

# 172 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yes.

# 173 MR. COCHRAN:

And you say he was cruel to you?

# 174 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Well, not cruel, but he was very--not pleasant.

# 175 MR. COCHRAN:

I thought he used the word "Cruel."

# 176 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Not pleasant.

# 177 MR. COCHRAN:

Is that a better word?

# 178 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Was not smiling, believe me.

KEY QUOTE

# 179 MR. COCHRAN:

Wasn't smiling? Okay. But you tried to cooperate, did you not?

# 180 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Sure.

# 181 MR. COCHRAN:

And at that time you were still willing to be a witness; is that correct?

# 182 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Pardon?

# 183 MR. COCHRAN:

You were still willing to be a witness if you were called by either side, right?

# 184 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Sure, sure.

# 185 MR. COCHRAN:

With regard to this white car that you said was a wagon or a Jeep of some kind, you never at any time saw any windows on that vehicle, did you?

# 186 MR. HEIDSTRA:

It was dark so they looked dark to me, the windows. There was no light in there.

# 187 MR. COCHRAN:

Did you ever see--Mr. Darden asked you a question did you ever see any bumpers on that vehicle?

# 188 MR. HEIDSTRA:

No, I could never see that from that distance.

# 189 MR. COCHRAN:

And the conditions, so that we are clear, that you were up Dorothy, was about how many yards, if you can tell us?

# 190 MR. HEIDSTRA:

50 yards. At least 50 yards. 50 yards.

# 191 MR. COCHRAN:

At least 50 yards?

# 192 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yeah.

# 193 MR. COCHRAN:

And have you ever at any time told anyone that you heard or heard the voice of O.J. Simpson out at Bundy on June 12th, 1994?

# 194 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Never, never. Could never hear the voice.

KEY QUOTE

# 195 MR. COCHRAN:

Did you ever at any time tell anyone that you heard the voice of a black man around that location at that time?

# 196 MR. HEIDSTRA:

No, absurd. No, never.

# 197 MR. COCHRAN:

May I have just a second, your Honor?

# 198 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel and the Defendant.)

# 199 MR. COCHRAN:

I have nothing further of this witness at this point.

# 200 THE COURT:

All right. This will be a good time. All right. Ladies and gentlemen, we are going to take our recess for the noon hour. Mr. Heidstra, you may step down. You are ordered to come back at 1:30.

# 201 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Thank you.

# 202 THE COURT:

Sorry. Remember all my admonitions to you. Don't discuss the case among yourselves, don't form any opinions about the case, don't conduct any deliberations until the matter has been submitted to you, don't allow anybody to communicate with you with regard to the case. See you at 1:30.

# 203 (At 12:04 P.M. the noon recess was taken until 1:30 P.M. of the same day.)

# 204 (Appearances as heretofore noted.)

# 205 (Janet M. Moxham, CSR no. 4855, official reporter.)

# 206 (Christine M. Olson, CSR no. 2378, official reporter.)

# 207 (The following proceedings were held in open court, out of the presence of the jury:)

# 208 THE COURT:

May I see counsel with the court reporter, please.

# 209 (Page 36460 transcribed and sealed under separate cover, volume 185A.)

# 210 (The following proceedings were held in open court, out of the presence of the jury:)

# 211 THE COURT:

All right. Back on the record in the Simpson matter. All parties are again present. The jury is not present. Counsel, we have two matters that have been filed this morning, both motions in limine. Counsel, what is your pleasure on them?

# 212 MR. DOUGLAS:

Certainly, your Honor. Miss Harman is an expected witness. She is present in the building. It's likely now that we will not get to her today. If the Court wants to take this up tomorrow and deal with the jury in the remaining time, it's fine with me. It would allow me more time to research the authorities that we were given this morning.

# 213 THE COURT:

All right.

# 214 MS. LEWIS:

That's fine. And the other motion, your Honor, regarding Mr. Reichardt?

# 215 MR. COCHRAN:

Mr. Reichardt, I think the same would pertain. He would not be called before tomorrow.

# 216 THE COURT:

All right.

# 217 MS. LEWIS:

I should alert the Court, there is an error in the body of the motion on the first page.

# 218 THE COURT:

I'm sorry, counsel?

# 219 MS. LEWIS:

Christian Reichardt makes a motion to prevent Christian Reichardt from testifying in the matters discussed in the motion.

# 220 THE COURT:

I wondered about that.

# 221 MS. LEWIS:

Tomorrow morning then at 9:00?

# 222 THE COURT:

Yes.

# 223 MS. LEWIS:

Thank you.

# 224 THE COURT:

All right. Miss Clark, did you have the opportunity to talk to Mr. Bailey concerning the other discovery issues?

# 225 MS. CLARK:

I did, your Honor. One of them I think is resolved at least with respect to the tape. We never had a tape. What happened--not what was represented. What happened was, I never knew about any tape. I had the--our people go and check it out when Mr. Bailey made his motion this morning.

And what we determined is that Mr. Lang told Detective Payne that he had taped the interview himself, and then Mr.--Detective Payne asked for a copy and Mr. Lang gave him a copy. And when Mr.--when Detective Payne listened to it, it had a seminar on one side and it was blank on the other. He called Tom Lang then and asked him for another copy because the one he had had nothing on it, and Mr. Lang informed him that he would get it to him and then said he'd lost it and couldn't find it and never did give him one. So we didn't have a tape. I understand now that the tape in fact does exist, that it's in the possession of Mr. Lang's lawyer who is currently transcribing it. Mr. Bailey will pick it up this afternoon and we will pick up a copy from him. I had thought that Mr. Lang was going to be testifying this afternoon having received no notice to the contrary until two minutes ago, and I guess this will give us time to go over that. Mr. Hodgman needs to address the Court ex parte on some other matters.

# 226 THE COURT:

As to this witness?

# 227 MS. CLARK:

Yes.

# 228 THE COURT:

All right. Mr. Bailey.

# 229 MR. BAILEY:

Well, I'm inclined to object to an ex parte address on the forthcoming Defense witness if he is called, but I will--

# 230 THE COURT:

I have the feeling that--is this a request under 1054.7?

# 231 MS. CLARK:

It is, your Honor.

# 232 THE COURT:

All right. Then have Mr. Hodgman here at 3:30.

# 233 MS. CLARK:

Yes, your Honor.

# 234 MR. BAILEY:

If it pleases the Court--

# 235 MS. CLARK:

May I make the call?

# 236 THE COURT:

Why don't you have one of your minions run upstairs and tell Mr. Hodgman.

# 237 MR. BAILEY:

Miss Clark did not address the sketch which Mr. Lang says he gave to the Prosecution, and I'm wondering if any research has been done into the existence of the sketch in his file.

# 238 MS. CLARK:

We'll discuss that with Mr. Bailey.

# 239 THE COURT:

All right. Well, discuss it. If it exists, I would like it produced.

# 240 MR. BAILEY:

Well, you want the tape now? I would like the sketch now. I will accept the representation of Miss Clark that the tape somehow didn't fly and in fact the witness relocated it I find when he moved seven days ago, moved his home. So it looks like we'll both have access to it in time to prevent any lasting damage. The sketch issue I'm still pressing.

# 241 THE COURT:

All right. I'm going to direct the Prosecution to produce that. Mr. Bailey, who has the sketch to your knowledge?

# 242 MR. BAILEY:

Mr. Lang said he gave it to a policeman.

# 243 THE COURT:

Miss Clark?

# 244 MS. CLARK:

That's not what I understand.

# 245 THE COURT:

What's your understanding?

# 246 MS. CLARK:

I don't have an understanding that any police officer received any sketch.

# 247 MR. BAILEY:

Well, to someone connected with the Prosecution. They sent someone to pick it up together with the statement the both sides have that he wrote out in his own handwriting detailing what he saw that night. That was almost contemporaneous.

# 248 THE COURT:

All right. I'm not getting a clear answer from the Prosecution. Is there such a sketch?

# 249 MS. CLARK:

I need for Mr. Hodgman to address the Court under 1054.7, your Honor. If you would like, I'll ask Mr. Hodgman to come down now.

# 250 THE COURT:

No. I'll do it at 3:30. Let's get in as much time as we can with the jury.

# 251 MR. BAILEY:

Very well, your Honor.

# 252 THE COURT:

Okay. Thank you. All right. Deputy Magnera, let's have the jurors, please.

# 253 (The following proceedings were held in open court, in the presence of the jury:)

# 254 THE COURT:

All right. Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen. Please be seated. Let the record reflect we've been rejoined by all the members of our jury panel. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.

THE JURY: Good afternoon.

# 255 THE COURT:

We have a slight change in our schedule this afternoon. We'll be taking the recess today at 3:30. All right. Mr. Heidstra, would you resume the witness stand, please.

Robert Heidstra, the witness on the stand at the time of the lunch recess, resumed the stand and testified further as follows:

# 256 THE COURT:

All right. Good afternoon again, Mr. Heidstra.

# 257 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Good afternoon.

# 258 THE COURT:

You are reminded, sir, you are still under oath. And, Mr. Cochran, have you completed your redirect?

# 259 MR. COCHRAN:

Yes. I have no other questions at this point, your Honor.

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (5)

Robert Heidstra

Never, never said that.

Flat denial that he ever told anyone he heard the voice of a Black man — directly countering what was apparently a damaging characterization from cross-examination that could have implied he identified OJ Simpson's voice by race.

Robert Heidstra

Because they called me a crucial witness and I felt what I heard and what I saw might be important for them.

Explains his disappointment at being dropped by the prosecution despite Detective Payne calling him 'crucial' — undercuts any inference that he was a biased Defense plant.

Robert Heidstra

Never, never. Could never hear the voice.

Second emphatic denial — Heidstra says he never told anyone he heard the voice of O.J. Simpson at Bundy on June 12th, 1994.

Robert Heidstra

Was not smiling, believe me.

Heidstra's colorful characterization of Darden's pre-trial interview manner — softens 'cruel' to 'not smiling,' providing a small humanizing moment while preserving the point that the prosecution's contact with him was adversarial.

Robert Heidstra

I live there still. I must like it somehow.

Dry humor during Cochran's character rehabilitation — makes Heidstra likable and grounded, reinforcing the 'honest working man' narrative Cochran is building.

Evidence (4)

Informal

Heidstra's June 21st, 1994 statement to Detectives Payne and Parker, read aloud by Cochran during questioning

Discussed — Cochran reads portions aloud and Heidstra confirms consistency with trial testimony

Informal

Diagram of the area around Dorothy Street and Bundy Drive used during testimony

Referenced to orient direction Heidstra was looking when he saw the white vehicle

Informal

Tape recording of Tom Lang's interview, allegedly taped by Lang himself and sought by the Defense

Disputed during out-of-jury sidebar — prosecution says copy received was blank; Lang's lawyer reportedly has the tape and is transcribing it

Informal

Sketch made by witness Tom Lang, allegedly given to someone connected with the prosecution

Sought by Bailey during sidebar; prosecution disputes having received it; Ito orders production

Notable Exchanges (3)

Johnnie Cochran•Robert Heidstra

Cochran walks Heidstra through a sustained character rehabilitation sequence — covering his 17 years at the same apartment, his six-day work week, his refusal to sell his story to tabloids, and his pride in his work — before pivoting back to substance.

strategic

Johnnie Cochran•Robert Heidstra

Cochran elicits back-to-back denials that Heidstra ever claimed to hear the voice of a Black man or OJ Simpson — apparently the most contested takeaway from cross-examination.

strategic

Marcia Clark•F. Lee Bailey•Lance A. Ito

Out-of-jury sidebar dispute over a missing tape and sketch from upcoming witness Tom Lang. Clark says the copy Payne received was blank; Bailey says Lang relocated it when he moved. Ito orders the sketch produced and schedules an ex parte 1054.7 hearing with Hodgman for 3:30.

heated

Light Moments (3)

Robert Heidstra

Heidstra responds to Cochran asking if he likes his apartment after 17 years: 'I live there still. I must like it somehow.'

Lance A. Ito

Ito tells Clark to 'have one of your minions run upstairs and tell Mr. Hodgman' about the 3:30 hearing.

Robert Heidstra

Cochran says he thought Heidstra used the word 'cruel' about Darden; Heidstra walks it back to 'not pleasant... was not smiling, believe me.'

Credibility Attacks (1)

⚔ Robert Heidstra

Rehabilitation of prior impeachment

Cochran uses redirect to counter cross-examination insinuations: confirms Heidstra refused tabloid money, was disappointed (not motivated) by prosecution abandonment, and never claimed to identify a Black voice or OJ's voice — reversing damage done by Darden.

Witness Demeanor

(Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel and the Defendant.)

Witness asked to adjust microphone during testimony

Witness uses repetitive affirmations ('Sure, sure,' 'Definitely. Definitely.,' 'Right, right, right') suggesting cooperative but slightly nervous demeanor

Objections

4 objections (0 sustained, 4 overruled)

Proceeding 6778 • 259 utterances • Defense witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103