People. Miss Clark.

Thank you.

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. CLARK

Miss Pilnak, you're a stickler for time, are you?

Yes, I am.

And you wear two watches; is that right?

Not always. If I'm in a rush, you know, to the airport or I have to be someplace. I have lots of clocks in my home.

Uh-huh. And when the police officers contacted you on the morning of June the 13th, you knew that they were talking--coming to talk to you about a murder investigation, correct?

Yes, I did.

And you knew that one of the victims was Nicole Brown, correct?

I had just found out.

You didn't know her, did you?

No, other than in passing, when you see someone, you know, four or five times a week for six months.

You saw her in the neighborhood; is that right?

I saw her on San Vicente Boulevard.

You didn't go to her house?

No.

She didn't go to your house?

No.

She was not a personal friend of yours?

No.

All right. So you knew that they were talking about a murder investigation on the morning of June the 13th, correct?

Yes.

That's pretty important, isn't it?

Yes, it is.

And you knew that what you said to the police officer would be important, didn't you?

Yes.

And so you were trying to be careful to tell them accurately whatever information you had, weren't you?

Yes. But I was in shock. I had just found this out minutes before they walked in.

And you didn't know her. You did not know Nicole Brown, correct? She was not your friend?

Just because someone isn't my friend. When you see someone every day, there is--

No. Miss--excuse me. Can you answer my question?

Your Honor, just a moment.

Wait, wait, wait.

Well, I object. That's nonresponsive.

Objection, correct?

Objection, your Honor.

All right. Allow her to finish the answer.

Okay.

If it's not responsive, I'll strike it. But you've already asked the question regarding her friendship with Nicole Brown Simpson.

Uh-huh.

All right. Can you answer this? You were talking to the police officers. You knew that your answers to their questions would be important, correct?

I was in shock. I guess so, but I was in--I was in shock when they came over.

There would be an objection as nonresponsive for everything except "I guess so."

Sustained.

Motion to strike.

The jury is to disregard the last portion of the answer. Proceed.

So you guess so, that it was important to give them the correct answers, but you didn't, did you, at least according to your testimony today?

At that moment in time, because of the way that I--the way I was feeling, it was the best of my recollection. I had just come in my house minutes before. I had just found out that Nicole was murdered.

Be another objection as nonresponsive, your Honor. Motion to strike.

Overruled.

Now, Miss Pilnak, you've given several interviews to the press since this case occurred; did you not?

Living on Bundy, I've had cameras in front of my face. Yes.

And you've spoken on television regarding your observations in this case, correct?

I believe I have.

And as a matter of fact, you were interviewed on June the 13th outside the Bundy condo; isn't that right?

I think so, yes.

And on June the 14th, you were interviewed in front of Rockingham, weren't you?

Yes.

You don't live in Rockingham, do you?

No. But I run there every Monday and Tuesday.

And so when you were running there on June the 14th, that was on Tuesday, you were interviewed again, correct?

I guess so, yes.

And you told the press that--also the same thing you told the police officers, that you heard dogs barking at around shortly before midnight; isn't that correct?

If you say so.

Do you recall talking to the press about what time you heard dogs barking?

Uh, I believe I do.

And do you recall talking to them on June the 14th in front of Rockingham?

May I approach, your Honor?

No. Miss Clark, yes.

Do you recall talking to a reporter for a newspaper called the Atlanta Constitution on June the 14th, 1994?

I don't recall that particular person.

But you recall talking to reporters on that date, correct?

I believe so.

And you recall telling those reporters or at least one of those reporters that you remember hearing dogs barking shortly before midnight?

I believe so.

And were you still in shock on June the 14th, Miss Pilnak?

Well, I think for a few days I was in shock.

Were your memory--you had a memory of the events at the time that you were speaking--strike that. Would you say that your memory of what occurred on the evening of June the 12th was better on June the 13th or better on January the 25th, 1995?

Probably January.

Your memory was better seven months later; is that right, ma'am?

Well, if I have to choose between the two dates.

Well, I mean, maybe you're not like the rest of us. Does your memory fade with time?

Objection.

Sustained. Sustained.

Objection. Argumentative.

I said sustained. Rephrase the question.

Does your memory fade with time, Miss Pilnak, or get sharper?

Well, when I write things down, it doesn't fade. I can always go back and look at what I wrote down.

All right. I'm going to show you a report I ask to be marked People's next in order, 496.

I believe it's 498.

Oh, 498?

And what is this item, counsel?

This is the police report. I'm going to first show the witness.

All right. Mr. Cochran, do you have a copy? What page?

Well, Mr. Cochran is looking at that.

On June the 14th, you were in shock, and you took a run up to Rockingham?

I run every day.

Even when you're in shock?

Well, what I mean is, I was--I mean, this--this is a quiet neighborhood and I was shocked by what had happened. Of course. I run every day. It doesn't mean that I can't function.

Right. It was a shocking event, correct?

Very shocking.

That doesn't mean that you are medically in shock, correct?

That's correct.

Showing you a report that's been marked as People's 497? 8.

498.

498.

What's the date on that report, Miss Clark?

Date on the report is June 14th.

Thank you.

Do you see your name on this report?

Yes, I do.

And is that your name?

Can I say something? It's incorrectly spelled.

Right. They have an "M" instead of an "N" in your name?

Yes.

All right. But the address on this is correct; is that right?

Yes.

That's your address?

Yes.

And you spoke to the police officers on June the 13th, 1994, correct?

Yes.

And what time was it when you spoke to them?

Around 10:15 in the morning.

And is that--I believe you indicated on direct that it was about 10:00 o'clock when you spoke to them? Didn't you indicate to that?

I object to that. Misstates the evidence, your Honor.

Overruled.

10:00, 10:15. I did not look at my watch when they came in.

So you can't be precise about that time?

No. Not that time.

Pardon?

No.

And even though you were in a shocked condition, that did not prevent you from speaking to the reporters on camera on June the 13th and June the 14th, correct?

Object to the form of that question. Argumentative.

Overruled. But I think we've already asked that question.

Okay. Can she answer this one?

We've already asked the question.

All right. So you recall looking at your watch when you asked Mr.--Miss Telander--

Yes.

You recall looking at your watch when you asked her to leave, correct?

Yes.

But you did not look at your watch when the officers came to interrogate you about a murder investigation?

Asked and answered, your Honor.

Sustained.

Showing you People's 498. All right. I've folded down the identifying information on your--on the police report. This is the report I just showed you, correct?

Yes.

Yes.

And you--that's the truth. That is what you told them on that date?

That is what I told them on that date.

All right. And after you spoke to the police on June the 13th, you spoke to the press on June the 13th and 14th and then your next contact with the police was on January 25th, 1995, correct?

That's correct.

That's correct.

And on January the 25th, 1995, you typed out this itinerary of what you did that day, correct?

Yes.

And I'm going to show you the first page of that and ask if you recognize--

Yes. I'll approach. I've seen that, yes.

All right.

And is that an accurate copy of the itinerary you typed out on January 25th, 1995?

That is what I typed, but there were some changes made since then.

And have you furnished those changes to the Prosecution or to the police?

Umm, I told the police and I furnished them also to the Defense.

Okay. You told the police that it could have been 10:33 and not 10:35 as you indicated in your itinerary back--that you typed in January of 1995?

Yes.

And did you indicate to anyone that the dog might have been barking earlier, but you hadn't heard it?

Assumes facts not in evidence, your Honor.

Overruled.

Yes.

Okay. And who did you tell that to?

Umm, I spoke to a detective, and I'm not sure which detective it was.

Now, who lives closer to 875 south Bundy, Miss Pilnak? You or Pablo Fenjves?

Pablo lives in back. I'm in front. So the sound--I'm closer to where--in a sense to where the crime occurred.

Show us--please show the jury where you live.

Sure. I live right here (Indicating).

Okay. You know what? Let's--can we get the chart up there? I'm going to ask you to mark it for us. Go ahead. You can have a seat. I'm going to ask you to direct an arrow. All right. We're showing you a chart now that is basically People's 26. Can--you know, you can look at your monitor if that will help.

Yes. Miss Pilnak?

Miss Pilnak?

Oh.

Isn't that easier?

Yes.

All right. Why don't you direct the arrow to where you were living at the time--at the night of June the 12th, 1994?

How am I supposed to direct the arrow?

Tell it where to go, up or down.

Oh. Down about midway on the other side on the east side of the street. A little bit closer up to the street. Just right about in the middle. Correct.

Okay. Will you mark that, please. Thank you. All right. And where do you think 875 south Bundy is?

Well, it's the--it's easier to look up here. It is the--this chart, the red.

Uh-huh. Okay. We don't have to mark that because it's already marked. And do you know where Pablo Fenjves lives?

Yes. He's the yellow building behind.

Okay. And you believe that you were closer to 875 south Bundy than he?

Well, it's a toss because you're talking about the frontage of the house which the lots are 50 feet versus, you know, the back--the back of his house. He's probably--I mean he's closer, but in terms of--

If you were to--

--the front--

I'm sorry. Go ahead. I'm sorry. If you were to--

I'd have to--I mean it--

I know.

He's closer.

Thank you.

Can we print that, please? People's 499?

People's 499.

I'm going to wrap up, your Honor.

Miss Pilnak, let me ask you something. When you were out on the porch, you were there for what period of time?

About three or four minutes.

Okay. And you went out there at 10:21?

Approximately 10:21.

Could be 10:22?

It could be 10:22.

All right. And when you were out there on the porch--or 10:20 by the way?

It wasn't 10:20 because it--by the time I said what I did to my girlfriend and printed out the report, it's three minutes.

Okay. And you--you were standing on the porch for approximately four minutes?

Three to four minutes, yes.

While you were standing out on that porch, did you see a young couple, a boy and a girl, walking southbound on Bundy?

No.

Did you see a girl wearing light colored pants and a beige--

Blazer.

Thank you.

--blazer?

With stripes.

No.

Did you see a white Nissan--excuse me. Did you see a Nissan 300ZX driving northbound on Bundy?

No, I did not.

Did you see a white--strike that. Do you have a clear view of the intersection of Bundy and Dorothy?

Yes, I do.

From your porch?

Very clear.

And would you be able to see the street area along the parking curb of Bundy on the west side of Bundy in front of 875 south Bundy?

Yes.

Can you also see on that curb area all the way down to the intersection of Bundy and Dorothy?

Would you repeat that?

Sure. Let me show you on People's 26. I'm showing you now the area that would be the curb in front of 875 south Bundy and all the way down to the intersection of Dorothy and Bundy.

Yes.

Okay. Is that visible to you from where you live?

Yes, it is.

If you are standing on your porch, can you clearly see that location?

Yes.

On the night of June the 12th, when you were out on your porch, did you see any large white Ford truck?

No.

Did you see any vehicles parked on the curb area there?

I didn't notice any vehicles.

Did you hear any loud voices coming from the location of the intersection of Bundy and Dorothy that night?

No.

At any time?

No.

Other than the sound of the dog barking at 10:33 or even possibly earlier as you've indicated, was that the only sound that you heard?

That misstates the evidence.

Overruled.

Would you repeat that, please?

Yes. On the night of June the 12th, as you've testified, at approximately 10:33 or possibly earlier as you've indicated, the sound of the dog barking, was that the only sound you heard that drew your attention on the night of June the 12th?

That--at that time, yes, but it wasn't before 10:33. I'm positive of that.

Okay. You're very sure of that?

Well, I retimed my activities.

And when you say you retimed your activities--well, let me ask--let me--I've already shown you this page of your itinerary, correct?

Yes.

All right. I'm going to show it to you now so the ladies and gentlemen of the jury can see it.

Don't show her address.

We're blocking out the top part, identifying information. But this is what you've just identified, correct?

Yes. But there were additions.

I'm sorry. This is the itinerary though that you typed in January--on January 25th of 1995?

Yes.

And on January 25th, 1995, you were able to recall that exactly 10:18 P.M., you looked at the digital time clock on your message machine and said to Judy, quote, "Judy, it's 10:18 and you're going to have to leave. I'm going to aspen in two days and I have a ton of things I have to get done. You've been here all day," end quote.

Yes.

And you remember saying those exact words to her; is that correct?

I remembered saying those the following day. I didn't just remember in January.

But you didn't write it down the following day, did you?

No, I did not.

You wrote it down on January 25th, 1995?

Yes.

And then for the entry for 10:21 to 10:25 P.M., you indicate that you and Judy commented about the weather saying, quote, "It's really a strange night. It's so quiet. It's almost eerie," in all caps, end quote, and you recall making that exact comment to her?

Yes, I do.

And you recalled that on January 25th, 1995, seven months after the event?

I recalled it earlier also, yes.

But you only wrote it down seven months later, correct?

Yes.

Now, on the second page, you indicate--I'm going to show it to you--"The dog continuously barked. I said to myself out loud," quote, "I hope that damn dog stops barking before I go to sleep," end quote.

Yes.

And you recall thinking those exact words at that exact time on June the 12th, 1995, correct?

Yes. Yes. I said it out loud. I remember.

And you remembered that on January 25th, 1995, correct?

I wrote it down on January 25th. I remembered it before then.

Now, if you would tell us, where did Judy drive? What was her direction of travel?

Judy's car was parked right in front of my house on the street facing north, and she proceeded north to Dorothy, she made a left and--used to be able to make a left-hand turn there--and just made a U-turn right--she--she was parked here, came up and turned right in there (Indicating) and then went south.

Okay. And that was at 10:21 or 10:22?

No. It was probably 10:24 or right at 10:25.

And you saw--while you were out on the porch, you saw no other car proceeding from Dorothy and north on Bundy?

No other car. That's why we commented on that night.

You did not see a 300 Nissan ZX driving westbound on Dorothy and then northbound on Bundy?

Asked and answered.

Sustained.

Now, Judy Telander is here in court with you today, isn't she?

Yes, she is.

And you have been waiting together in the--in a little room?

Yes.

And you saw Ellen Aaronson today, didn't you?

Yes.

And you were waiting with her in that little room?

Yes.

And how long were you all together in that room?

Well, everybody was running in different directions, but probably a few hours, you know, since this morning. Could of--you know, four or five hours.

Uh-huh. And now, Miss Telander is somebody who has been your friend for quite a long time?

Yes.

And after you were--became aware of the murders that were committed on Bundy on June the 12th, you spoke to her about the events of that night; did you not?

Yes.

On several occasions; have you not?

Yes.

In fact, you've shown her this script, haven't you, your itinerary?

Yes.

Object to use of the word "Script."

Overruled.

Move to strike.

Well, there's dialogue.

And on how many occasions would you say you've spoken to her about the events of that night since June the 13th?

Well, initially, particularly right after the preliminary hearing, a lot. Several times. I mean, I couldn't put, you know, a number to that, but many, many times.

Do you recall exactly how long you've been here today?

Umm, I arrived about 10:15, 10:30.

And you are wearing two watches?

Well, my first watch wasn't working real well. So I just wanted to make sure with time.

So was it 10:15 or was it 10:30?

I didn't look at what time I arrived today. I'm a stickler with time when I remember things, when I look at a clock and say it's 10:18, and then it's very easy because I have a routine in my life. So I can very easily calculate how long things take.

Was it not a big event for you to come to court today?

I wasn't looking forward to it.

Is it not a big event, Miss Pilnak, for you to come to court today?

It is a big event, but--

Not something you do every day, is it?

No, it's--

May she finish the answer, your Honor?

Yes. Allow her to finish, Miss Clark.

I have nothing further.

A few questions.