Johnnie Cochran cross-examines Detective Lange about systematic evidence-handling failures at the Bundy crime scene. Cochran extracts admissions that multiple items — including a plastic heart (item 288), a cigarette butt, loose change, and a black ski cap — were either booked months late or never booked at all, despite being observed or pointed out by defense investigators. Cochran also probes potential contamination of the Goldman crime scene by coroner's office personnel who may have dropped used gloves on the body.
# 1 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.) # 2 MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE MARKED THIS AS 1034 AND I WILL APPROACH THE WITNESS IF I MIGHT.
# 3 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. DEFENDANT'S NEXT.
# 4 (DEFT'S 1034 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH) # 5 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: BY THE WAY, THERE IS NO QUESTION THIS IS A BLACK JEEP, RIGHT?
# 6 A: I BELIEVE THAT IS THE JEEP, RIGHT.
# 7 Q: YOU KNOW GENERALLY BECAUSE YOU WERE SHOWN BY PHILLIPS WHERE THOSE COINS WERE. CAN YOU POINT ON THAT PHOTOGRAPH, 1034, AND SHOW US GENERALLY WHERE THOSE COINS WERE RECOVERED? CAN YOU DO THAT?
# 8 MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, THE PEOPLE HAVE AN OBJECTION. I DON'T MIND COUNSEL USING THE PHOTOGRAPH THAT HAS --
# 9 MR. COCHRAN: CAN HE ANSWER MY QUESTION FIRST?
# 10 THE COURT: WHAT IS THE OBJECTION?
# 11 MS. CLARK: THE OBJECTION IS THAT THIS PHOTOGRAPH IS MISLEADING.
# 12 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 13 MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, CAN HE ANSWER MY QUESTION?
# 14 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 15 MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU.
# 16 THE WITNESS: I DON'T SEE ANY COINS IN HERE.
# 17 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: WELL, FIRST OF ALL, MY QUESTION WAS THIS: IS THAT THE GENERAL AREA WHERE THE COINS WERE RECOVERED? IS THAT DEPICTED IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH, SIR, THE GENERAL AREA.
# 18 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. THAT IS VAGUE, YOUR HONOR.
# 19 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 20 THE WITNESS: THE GENERAL AREA AS TO THE NORTH SIDE OF THE VEHICLE ARE YOU REFERRING TO?
# 21 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: YES, SIR.
# 23 Q: ALL RIGHT. IT WAS RECOVERED FROM THE NORTH SIDE OF THE JEEP VEHICLE; ISN'T THAT RIGHT?
# 24 A: I BELIEVE SO. I COULD CHECK THE PROPERTY REPORT AND GET AN EXACT LOCATION FOR YOU.
# 25 Q: DO YOU WANT TO COULD THAT? WHY DON'T YOU DO THAT FOR US.
# 26 A: IF YOU WOULD LIKE ME TO.
# 27 MR. COCHRAN: IF THAT IS OKAY WITH THE COURT, PLEASE DO.
# 28 THE COURT: CERTAINLY.
(BRIEF PAUSE.) Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: HAVE YOU UNCOVERED THE PROPERTY REPORT?
# 30 MR. COCHRAN: AND MAY I READ IT, YOUR HONOR.
# 31 Q: NOW, I WOULD LIKE FOR YOU TO READ THAT TO YOURSELF AND SEE WHETHER OR NOT YOU CAN READ THAT. YOU CAN LOOK AT THIS PHOTOGRAPH, 1034, AND SEE WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS THE GENERAL AREA DEPICTED IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH, 1034, WHERE THIS DIME AND THIS PENNY WAS RECOVERED?
# 32 A: YES, IT APPEARS TO BE THAT GENERAL AREA.
# 33 Q: ALL RIGHT. AND WHAT IS -- WHAT DOES YOUR REPORT -- WHAT DOES YOUR REFRESHED RECOLLECTION INDICATE TO YOU ABOUT WHERE THIS WAS RECOVERED?
# 35 Q: WHAT DOES YOUR REFRESHED RECOLLECTION INDICATE TO YOU ABOUT WHERE THE DIME AND PENNY WERE RECOVERED?
# 36 A: APPROXIMATELY SIX FEET EAST OF THE WEST EDGE OF THE DRIVEWAY AND THREE FEET NORTH OF THE NORTH WALL.
# 37 MR. COCHRAN: AND YOUR HONOR, THAT IS 1034 I'M ASKING TO PUT ON THE ELMO AT THIS POINT.
# 38 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
# 39 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: AND THAT AREA WE HAVE ASKED YOU, THAT IS THE GENERAL AREA WHERE THIS DIME AND PENNY WERE RECOVERED, RIGHT?
# 41 Q: BY THE WAY, DO YOU RECALL THAT ON OR ABOUT AUGUST 27, 1994, THAT WE SAW YOU AT THE SCENE -- STRIKE THAT. THAT YOU WERE AT THE SCENE OF THE BUNDY LOCATION AND I WAS THERE WITH SOME OTHER INDIVIDUALS? DO YOU RECALL THAT?
# 42 A: I BELIEVE THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN THE DATE, YES.
# 43 Q: DO YOU RECALL THAT ONE OF OUR INVESTIGATORS, MR. PAVELIC, POINTED OUT SOME CHANGE THAT WAS INSIDE THE GARAGE AREA ON THAT PARTICULAR DATE? DO YOU RECALL THAT?
# 45 Q: YES, PENNIES, DIMES OR SOMETHING ON THE GROUND?
# 46 A: I RECALL A CIGARETTE BUTT THAT HE MIGHT HAVE POINTED OUT. IT MAY HAVE BEEN A PENNY. I DON'T RECALL THAT.
# 47 Q: DO YOU RECALL THERE MAY HAVE BEEN SOME CHANGE ALSO POINTED OUT?
# 48 A: THERE MAY HAVE BEEN A PENNY OR SOMETHING. I DO SPECIFICALLY RECALL A CIGARETTE BUTT.
# 49 Q: ALL RIGHT. IT HAD NOT BEEN BOOKED; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 50 A: THE CIGARETTE BUTT?
# 53 Q: AND THE PENNY HADN'T BEEN BOOKED EITHER, IF THERE WAS A PENNY THERE?
# 55 Q: ALSO BY THE WAY, WHILE WE WERE INSIDE THE BUNDY LOCATION ON AUGUST 27, 1994, DO YOU RECALL BEING POINTED OUT TO YOU A DARK BLUE OR BLACK KNIT CAP? DO YOU REMEMBER THAT?
# 56 A: IT SEEMS TO ME THERE WAS A CAP UP IN ONE OF THE KID'S ROOMS, YES.
# 57 Q: YES. IT WAS OUTSIDE ONE OF THE KID'S ROOMS ON ONE OF THE LANDINGS. DO YOU RECALL THAT?
# 58 A: I BELIEVE IT WAS IN A BOX, YES.
# 59 Q: OKAY. IF I WERE TO SHOW YOU A COPY OF THE LOG, PERHAPS THIS WILL REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION REGARDING THIS -- I WILL SHOW THIS TO COUNSEL.
# 60 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.) # 61 MR. COCHRAN: I HAVE SHARED WITH THIS COUNSEL, YOUR HONOR. I WOULD LIKE TO APPROACH.
# 62 Q: I WOULD LIKE FOR YOU TO REFER TO THIS PARTICULAR REPORT REGARDING THE AUGUST 27 TIME THAT WE WERE AT BUNDY. READ THAT TO YOURSELF, FIRST OF ALL, AND SEE WHETHER OR NOT THAT REFRESHES YOUR RECOLLECTION.
# 63 A: (WITNESS COMPLIES.) JUST THE FIRST PARAGRAPH?
# 64 Q: YES, THE FIRST PARAGRAPH, I'M SORRY. YOU READ IT?
# 66 Q: DOES THAT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION?
# 68 Q: THAT I ASKED YOU, ALONG WITH A MAN BY THE NAME OF JOHN MC NALLY WHO INQUIRED ABOUT A BLACK SKI CAP IN A BOX IN THE HALLWAY? DO YOU RECALL THAT?
# 70 Q: THAT WAS OUTSIDE OF THE YOUNG LADY'S ROOM, SYDNEY'S ROOM; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 72 Q: AND BY THE WAY, WAS THAT BLACK SKI CAP BOOKED AFTER WE POINTED IT OUT TO YOU?
# 73 A: NO. I HAD NO REASON TO BOOK IT.
KEY QUOTE # 74 Q: BUT YOU DID SEE IT THERE, DID YOU?
# 75 A: YOU POINTED IT OUT TO ME. YES, I DID.
# 76 Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, WITH REGARD TO A PLASTIC HEART, DO YOU RECALL SEEING A SMALL PLASTIC HEART, ITEM 288, SOMEWHERE -- RECOVERED AT THE BUNDY LOCATION SOMEWHERE IN THE REAR OF THE BUNDY LOCATION?
# 78 MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, AND I WOULD LIKE TO MARK THIS AS OUR NEXT EXHIBIT, IF WE MIGHT, 103 --
# 81 (DEFT'S 1035 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH) # 82 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: WHERE DID YOU SEE THIS PLASTIC HEART, IF YOU RECALL, SIR?
# 83 A: IT WAS SOMEWHERE IN THE VICINITY OF THE VEHICLE, ALSO IN THE DRIVEWAY.
# 84 Q: WAS THAT NEAR WHERE THIS CHANGE WAS?
# 85 A: I THINK IT MAY HAVE BEEN ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE VEHICLE.
# 86 Q: ALL RIGHT. IT WAS SOMEWHERE BACK NEAR THE VEHICLE, THOUGH, BUT MAYBE IT WAS ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE VEHICLE?
# 88 Q: I'M GOING TO APPROACH AND SHOW YOU THIS PLASTIC HEART AND ASK YOU WHETHER AS PICTURED HERE THIS IS A FAIR AND ACCURATE PORTRAYAL OF THE WAY THIS HEART APPEARS?
# 89 A: SIR, YES, IT APPEARS TO BE.
# 90 Q: NOW, WHEN YOU SAW THAT -- WHEN DID YOU SEE IT?
# 91 A: THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN ON THE INITIAL WALK THROUGH.
# 92 Q: WHEN PHILLIPS WAS SHOWING YOU WHAT WAS TAKING PLACE?
# 94 Q: THAT WILL BE ON JUNE 13TH?
# 96 Q: AND DID YOU HAVE THAT ITEM BOOKED INTO EVIDENCE?
# 97 A: IT WAS BOOKED, YES.
# 98 Q: AND BY THE WAY, NOW YOU SAW IT ON JUNE 13TH. CAN YOU LOOK IN YOUR REPORTS AND TELL US WHAT DATE WAS THAT ITEM BOOKED INTO EVIDENCE?
# 99 A: IT WAS SOMETIME AFTER THE 13TH BECAUSE I ALSO HELD THIS ITEM OUT.
# 100 Q: ALL RIGHT. I UNDERSTAND THAT. THE QUESTION WAS -- MY QUESTION WAS, WHAT DATE WAS THIS ITEM BOOKED INTO EVIDENCE?
# 102 Q: CAN YOU LOOK AT YOUR REPORTS AND TELL US?
# 103 A: I COULD GO THROUGH THEM. SEVERAL PAGES.
# 104 Q: COULD YOU DO THAT FOR US?
# 106 MR. COCHRAN: I WOULD LIKE TO SHOW THE ITEM, YOUR HONOR, WHILE WE ARE DOING IT. THIS IS 1035, THE HEART FOUND REAR SOUTH SIDE OF THE VEHICLE.
# 108 (WITNESS COMPLIES.) # 109 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: YOU ARE AWARE THIS IS ITEM NO. 288, SIR?
# 110 A: THAT WOULD HAVE HELPED.
KEY QUOTE # 111 Q: I'M SORRY, I THOUGHT I HAD SAID THAT EARLIER.
# 112 A: THAT ITEM WAS BOOKED ON AUGUST 25TH.
# 113 Q: AUGUST 25, 1994?
# 115 Q: NOW, THIS IS AN ITEM THAT HAD BEEN RECOVERED FROM THE SCENE BY YOU ON JUNE 13TH?
# 117 Q: IT WAS NOT BOOKED UNTIL AUGUST WHAT?
# 119 Q: BY YOU; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 121 Q: NOW, THAT WOULD BE CONTRARY TO YOUR -- THE POLICY EXPRESSED AGAIN IN YOUR MANUAL, TO BOOK THIS EVIDENCE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 122 (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.) # 123 Q: CAN YOU ANSWER THAT YES OR NO, PLEASE?
# 124 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. IF THE WITNESS NEED TO EXPLAIN, HE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO.
# 125 THE COURT: NO. YES OR NO?
# 126 THE WITNESS: I DON'T BELIEVE I CAN ANSWER THAT ONE WAY OR THE OTHER BECAUSE AGAIN THE MANUAL IS A POLICY, BUT IT IS JUST A GUIDE.
# 127 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: WELL, I DON'T ARGUE WITH YOU, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IF YOU CAN ANSWER THIS QUESTION YES OR NO. I WILL TRY AND ASK IT AGAIN.
# 128 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. HE JUST SAID HE COULDN'T.
# 129 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 130 MR. COCHRAN: I WANT TO REPHRASE THE QUESTION. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
# 131 Q: THIS ITEM BOOKED AS NUMBER 288, OUR NO. 1035?
# 133 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: 1035 WAS SHOWN TO YOU ON THE WALK THROUGH BY PHILLIPS ON THE EARLY MORNING HOURS OF JUNE 13TH, 1994, CORRECT?
# 135 Q: YOU WERE AWARE OF IT, PICTURES WERE TAKEN OF IT AND IT WAS NOT BOOKED UNTIL THE LATTER PART OF AUGUST OF 1994; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 136 A: THAT IS CORRECT.
# 137 Q: WOULD YOU AGREE WITH ME THAT THAT DOES NOT SEEM TO BE THE IMMEDIATE BOOKING? WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THAT INITIALLY?
# 138 A: IT IS NOT IMMEDIATE BOOKING; THAT'S CORRECT.
KEY QUOTE # 139 Q: DOES THE PROPERTY DIVISION OF THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT, THAT IS DOWNTOWN HERE IN DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES, DOES IT CLOSE WITHIN PARTICULAR HOURS? ARE THERE CERTAIN HOURS WHEN THE PROPERTY DIVISION IS OPENED FOR BOOKING EVIDENCE?
# 141 Q: AND IF YOU RECOVERED EVIDENCE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT, IT IS YOUR TESTIMONY THERE IS NO PROCEDURE BY WHICH AN OFFICER CAN BOOK EVIDENCE WHICH IS RECOVERED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT WITH IRREGULAR PROPERTY HOURS?
# 142 A: THE EVIDENCE CONTROL UNIT IS CLOSED. THERE IS A PROPERTY DIVISION DOWNTOWN THAT IS STAFFED 24 HOURS A DAY.
# 143 Q: SO IF YOU WANTED TO BOOK SOMETHING, YOU COULD BOOK IT 24 HOURS A DAY?
# 144 A: OSTENSIBLY, YES.
# 145 Q: IF YOU GOT A DR NUMBER AND THEN YOU COULD TAKE IT DOWN AND BOOK IT IF YOU WANTED TO; ISN'T THAT RIGHT?
# 147 Q: THIS ITEM WAS BOOKED BY YOU ON WHAT DATE? AUGUST WHAT?
# 148 A: IT WAS BOOKED BY DETECTIVE PAYNE ON AUGUST 25TH.
# 149 Q: BUT DETECTIVE PAYNE WORKS FOR YOU, DOES HE NOT?
# 150 A: HE WORKS WITH ME. HE IS ASSIGNED TO THIS INVESTIGATIVE EFFORT, YES.
# 151 Q: NOW, LET'S TURN OUR ATTENTION BACK TO THE BUNDY SCENE. DO YOU RECALL WHAT TIME IT WAS THE CRIMINALIST ARRIVED AT BUNDY FROM WHERE YOU TOLD US THEY WERE AT ROCKINGHAM?
# 152 A: WHAT TIME THEY ARRIVED AT THE BUNDY LOCATION FROM ROCKINGHAM?
# 154 A: I BELIEVE I TESTIFIED TO APPROXIMATELY 10:10 A.M.
# 155 Q: ALL RIGHT. DID YOU REVIEW THAT ON THE LOG AT ALL TO SEE WHETHER OR NOT THAT WAS ACCURATE?
# 156 (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.) # 157 Q: DO YOU HAVE IT UP THERE?
# 159 Q: AND WHAT DOES THE LOG INDICATE?
# 160 A: THE LOG INDICATES 10:15 A.M.
# 161 Q: ALL RIGHT. AND SO WE ARE CLEAR, THAT IS WHEN THIS LADY WHOSE NAME WAS RATCLIFFE AND THE -- FOLLOWED BY HER ASSOCIATE, MR. JACOBO, ARRIVED SHORTLY AFTER HER -- STRIKE THAT. STRIKE THAT. THAT IS WHEN FUNG AND MAZZOLLA CAME OVER FROM -- FROM THE ROCKINGHAM LOCATION, RIGHT?
# 162 A: THAT IS WHEN THEY ARRIVED AT BUNDY; THAT'S CORRECT.
# 163 Q: ALL RIGHT. BY THE TIME THEY GOT THERE, THE TWO PEOPLE FROM THE CORONER'S OFFICE, RATCLIFFE AND JACOBO, HAD ALREADY BEEN THERE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT? THEY WERE ALREADY THERE?
# 164 A: THEY WERE STILL THERE, YES.
# 165 Q: ALL RIGHT. AND THE BODIES HAD NOT BEEN MOVED AT THIS POINT; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 166 A: I BELIEVE THAT PROCESS HAD STARTED.
# 167 Q: HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A VIDEO OF THE SEQUENCE OF EVENTS THAT TOOK PLACE THAT EARLY MORNING HOURS VIS-A-VIS THE ARRIVAL OF THE CORONER'S REPRESENTATIVES AND THEN THE ARRIVAL OF THE CRIMINALISTS FROM ROCKINGHAM?
# 168 A: I RECALL SOME VIDEO THAT HAS BEEN PLAYED ON THE -- ON TELEVISION SEVERAL TIMES, DIFFERENT PIECES PUT TOGETHER.
# 169 Q: ALL RIGHT. HAVE YOU EVER SEEN THAT?
# 171 Q: ALL RIGHT. AND THE PART THAT YOU SAW, DO THEY REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION AT ALL ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THE BODIES HAD BEEN MOVED BY THE TIME THAT FUNG AND MAZZOLLA ARRIVED AT BUNDY FROM ROCKINGHAM?
# 172 A: AGAIN, I BELIEVE THEY WERE IN THE PROCESS OF DOING THAT AT THE TIME.
# 173 Q: ALL RIGHT. AND WHEN YOU SAY "IN THE PROCESS," WERE BOTH THE BODIES STILL IN PLACE AT THAT POINT, HAD NOT BEEN ACTUALLY MOVED, SIR?
# 174 A: I BELIEVE MR. GOLDMAN WAS. THE -- I'M NOT SURE ABOUT THE OTHER VICTIM. IT WAS PRETTY CLOSE AS FAR AS FUNG'S ARRIVAL TIME TO THE TIME THAT THE SIMPSON VICTIM WAS PUT ON THE PLASTIC SHEET. IT WAS PRETTY CLOSE AROUND IN THAT TIME, SO I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE.
# 175 Q: YOU ARE NOT EXACTLY SURE, BUT PERHAPS WE CAN MAKE THAT CLEARER FOR YOU LATER. WITH REGARD TO THIS MR. JACOBO, J-A-C-O-B-O, JACOBO, HE WAS ATTIRED OR DRESSED IN SOME KIND OF A BLUE JUMPSUIT THAT SAID "CORONER" ON THE BACK; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 177 Q: YOU NOTED THAT AS HE DEALT WITH THESE BODIES, YOU SAW MR. JACOBO AND ALSO MISS RATCLIFFE WITH GLOVES ON THEIR HANDS; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 179 Q: AND DID YOU HAVE SOME GLOVES ON YOUR HANDS AT THAT TIME?
# 181 Q: AND YOU SAW THEM HANDLE BOTH BODIES IN SEQUENCE? IN FACT, THEY HANDLED THE BODY OF MISS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON FIRST AND THEN THEY MOVED THEIR ATTENTION TO THE BODY OF MR. GOLDMAN; ISN'T THAT CORRECT, SIR?
# 183 Q: AND YOU NOTED AT THE TIME THAT JACOBO DID NOT CHANGE HIS GLOVES AFTER HANDLING MRS. SIMPSON'S BODY WHEN HE THEN TRIED TO HANDLE MR. RON GOLDMAN'S BODY; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 184 A: I NOTED IT AT THE TIME?
# 185 Q: DID YOU NOTE THAT AT THE TIME YOU WERE STANDING AND WATCHING HIM?
# 186 A: THAT HE DID NOT CHANGE HIS GLOVES?
# 187 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.
# 188 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: THAT HE USED THE SAME GLOVES WITH REGARD TO HANDLING THE BODIES?
# 189 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.
# 190 THE COURT: WHAT IS THE OBJECTION?
# 191 MS. CLARK: ASSUMES FACTS NOT EVIDENCE.
# 192 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
# 193 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DID YOU NOTE THAT? DID YOU SEE WHETHER OR NOT MR. JACOBO CHANGED GLOVES AFTER HE FINISHED HANDLING MISS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON'S BODY, IF SHE WAS THE FIRST BODY HANDLED?
# 194 A: I DON'T RECALL SEEING THAT, NO.
# 195 Q: DID YOU PARTICIPATE IN HANDLING THE BODIES?
# 196 A: ONCE AGAIN, I PERHAPS -- PERHAPS I MIGHT HAVE ASSISTED MOVING THEM. I DON'T HAVE A SPECIFIC RECOLLECTION. I DON'T BELIEVE I DID, BUT I CAN'T RULE THAT OUT, BECAUSE THERE WAS A LOT GOING ON AND SOMEONE MAY HAVE NEEDED A LITTLE ASSISTANCE ON SOMETHING. I JUST DON'T HAVE A SPECIFIC RECOLLECTION.
# 197 Q: WERE YOU WEARING GLOVES?
# 198 A: ONCE AGAIN, I BELIEVE I WAS.
# 199 Q: DID YOU CHANGE GLOVES? IF YOU HANDLED THE FIRST BODY, THE SIMPSON BODY, DID YOU CHANGE GLOVES BEFORE YOU HANDLED THE GOLDMAN?
# 200 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE. MISSTATES THE TESTIMONY.
# 201 MR. COCHRAN: IF HE REMEMBERS, YOUR HONOR.
# 202 THE COURT: YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION.
# 203 THE WITNESS: I DON'T RECALL HANDLING THE BODIES. I DON'T RECALL IF I HAD CHANGED GLOVES AT THIS LOCATION EITHER.
KEY QUOTE # 204 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DID YOU SEE OR EVER SEE THAT AFTER MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY WAS -- WAS LAYING IN A SUPINE POSITION, THAT ONE OF THE CORONER'S REPRESENTATIVES HAD TAKEN THEIR GLOVES AND DROPPED THEM ON THE BODY? DID YOU EVER SEE THAT PHOTOGRAPH?
# 205 A: I HAVE SEEN THAT PHOTOGRAPH, YES.
# 206 MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, I WOULD LIKE TO BRING THIS PHOTOGRAPH UP AT THIS POINT AND MARK IT AS AN EXHIBIT. THIS WILL BE DEFENDANT'S 1036, YOUR HONOR. WE WILL HAVE TO TRY TO EXHIBIT IT I THINK.
# 207 (DEFT'S 1036 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH) # 208 MR. HARRIS: CUT THE FEED.
# 209 MR. COCHRAN: CUT THE FEED ON THIS ONE, YOUR HONOR, PLEASE.
# 210 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, YOU SEE THOSE GLOVES ON MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY THERE?
# 212 Q: DO YOU REMEMBER SEEING THAT SCENE ON THAT PARTICULAR DATE?
# 213 A: AGAIN, I DON'T HAVE A SPECIFIC RECOLLECTION OF THOSE GLOVES BEING LIKE THAT.
# 214 Q: YOU KNOW THAT IS MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY, DON'T YOU?
# 216 Q: DO YOU SEE THAT LADY'S FEET STANDING ON THAT SHEET OF PLASTIC THERE?
# 218 Q: THOSE ARE THE FEET OF MISS RATCLIFFE FROM THE CORONER'S OFFICE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 220 Q: YOU RECOGNIZE THOSE AS THE SHOES SHE WAS WEARING THAT DAY?
# 221 A: I CAN'T SAY I RECOGNIZE THE SHOES, BUT I BELIEVE THAT TO BE HER.
# 222 Q: ALL RIGHT. DID YOU EVER RECALL -- DO YOU RECALL WHOSE GLOVES THOSE ARE ON MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY?
# 223 A: I COULD ONLY MAKE AN ASSUMPTION THAT THEY BELONG TO THE CORONER'S INVESTIGATOR.
# 224 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, SPECULATION.
# 225 MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTING TO --
# 226 THE COURT: I'M SORRY, WHAT WAS THE OBJECTION?
# 227 MS. CLARK: SPECULATION.
# 228 THE COURT: SUSTAINED. THE ANSWER WILL BE STRICKEN.
# 229 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, WITH REGARD TO THOSE GLOVES, DO YOU KNOW WHOSE GLOVES THOSE ARE?
# 231 Q: AND YOU RECALL SEEING THAT PARTICULAR PICTURE, WHAT IS DEPICTED THERE?
# 233 Q: AND WHEN YOU SAW THAT PARTICULAR PICTURE, THINK BACK FOR ME, WAS JACOBO WEARING GLOVES WHEN HE HANDLED THESE TWO BODIES?
# 234 A: I DON'T RECALL IF HE WAS OR NOT.
# 235 Q: ALL RIGHT. AND DO YOU RECALL AT SOME POINT RATCLIFFE WAS IN FACT WEARING GLOVES WHEN SHE WAS HANDLING THE TWO BODIES?
# 236 A: I AGAIN WOULD ASSUME THAT.
# 238 A: I DIDN'T CHECK THEM FOR GLOVES OR MAKE NOTE OF THAT.
# 239 Q: AT SOME POINT DID YOU SEE HER TAKE HER GLOVES OFF AND DROP THEM ON MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY?
# 241 Q: DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE CORONER'S PROCEDURE IS WITH REGARD TO TAKING BLOOD -- GLOVES THAT APPARENTLY HAVE SOME BLOOD ON THEM AND PLACING THEM ON THE BODIES OF VICTIMS? DO YOU KNOW WHAT THEIR POLICY IS REGARDING THAT?
# 242 A: WHAT THE CORONER'S POLICY IS REGARDING THAT?
# 244 A: I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF THERE IS A POLICY REGARDING THAT.
# 245 Q: WHEN YOU SAW THESE GLOVES PLACED ON MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY LIKE THAT, DID YOU SAY ANYTHING TO MISS RATCLIFFE?
# 246 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. AGAIN --
# 247 THE COURT: SUSTAINED. ASSUMING FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE.
# 248 MR. COCHRAN: WHAT? HE SAID HE SAW IT, YOUR HONOR.
# 249 THE COURT: HE SAID HE HAS SEEN THE PHOTO.
# 250 MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
# 251 Q: DID YOU EVER SEE -- YOU HAVE SEEN THIS PHOTOGRAPH THAT IS DEPICTED THERE, RIGHT?
# 253 Q: ALL RIGHT. DID YOU -- IS THAT A FAIR AND ACCURATE PORTRAYAL OF THE WAY THAT SCENE WAS THAT DAY?
# 254 A: IT APPEARS TO BE MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY. I DON'T RECALL SEEING THE GLOVES.
# 255 Q: ON THAT PARTICULAR DAY?
# 257 Q: WHO TOOK THAT PHOTOGRAPH?
# 258 A: I WOULD IMAGINE IT IS ONE OF OUR PHOTOGRAPHERS.
# 260 A: PROBABLY ROKAHR.
# 261 Q: AND DIDN'T YOU DIRECT THE PHOTOGRAPHS TO BE TAKEN THERE AT THE SCENE THAT DAY?
# 262 A: IN THE GENERAL SENSE, CERTAINLY, YES.
# 263 Q: AND YOU WERE STANDING RIGHT THERE WHEN THE PHOTOGRAPHS WERE TAKEN, WEREN'T YOU?
# 264 A: NOT NECESSARILY. BY WAY OF EXPLANATION, WHEN WE HAVE THE BODY OUT LIKE THIS, MOST OF OUR PHOTOGRAPHERS HAVE BEEN THROUGH THERE BEFORE AND THEY WILL WORK ALSO WITH THE CORONER'S INVESTIGATORS GETTING VARIOUS VIEWS OF VARIOUS INJURIES ON THE BODIES.
I MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE DIRECTED THIS SPECIFIC PHOTOGRAPH. I WAS DOING MANY OTHER THINGS.
# 265 Q: SO YOU DON'T RECALL?
# 266 A: I DON'T RECALL SEEING THOSE GLOVES.
# 267 Q: BUT YOU KNOW THAT IS AN LAPD PHOTOGRAPH TAKEN ON JUNE 13TH, 1994, OF MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY WITH MISS RATCLIFFE STANDING RIGHT NEXT TO HIM, RIGHT?
# 268 A: I WOULD SAY IT IS, YES.
# 269 Q: NOW, I MAY HAVE ASKED YOU THIS, AND IF I DO, I APOLOGIZE. DID YOU EVER TAKE THIS MAN, ROKAHR, THE PHOTOGRAPHER, INSIDE THE INTERIOR OF THE HOUSE, OTHER THAN THAT KITCHEN AREA? DID YOU EVER TAKE HIM UPSTAIRS AND HAVE HIM TAKE ANY PICTURES -- PICTURES OF ANYTHING YOU SAW INSIDE THAT HOUSE?
# 270 MS. CLARK: ASKED AND ANSWERED.
# 271 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
# 272 MR. COCHRAN: I APOLOGIZED IN ADVANCE.
# 273 THE COURT: I WILL SUSTAIN THE OBJECTION AGAIN.
# 274 MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. GOOD. I WON'T ASK THAT.
# 275 Q: WITH REGARD TO ROKAHR, HE DOESN'T COME OUT AND JUST START TAKING PICTURES? HE TAKES THE PICTURES UNDER THE DIRECTION OF THE INVESTIGATING OFFICER, RIGHT?
# 276 A: AS A GENERAL RULE, YES.
# 277 Q: NOW, WITH REGARD TO THIS JEEP THAT WAS AT THE REAR OF THE RESIDENCE, YOU TESTIFIED YESTERDAY THAT THE JEEP HAD -- THE PASSENGER SIDE DOOR WAS PARTIALLY AJAR OF THE JEEP; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 278 A: IT WAS CRACKED OPENED. IT WASN'T REALLY AJAR. IT WAS CRACKED BUT STILL -- NOT AJAR, BUT SLIGHTLY CRACKED OPENED, I WOULD SAY.
# 279 Q: ALL RIGHT. DID YOU HAVE ANY PICTURES TAKEN -- PICTURES TAKEN OF THAT DOOR SO WE CAN SEE HOW IT ACTUALLY LOOKED?
# 280 A: I BELIEVE THERE WERE PICTURES TAKEN OF IT.
# 281 Q: DO YOU HAVE -- HAVE ONE SHOWING THE DOOR AJAR OR CRACKED OPEN AT ALL?
# 282 A: I KNOW THERE IS PHOTOGRAPHS OF THAT SIDE OF THE VEHICLE. I DON'T KNOW IF ONE SHOWS IT AJAR.
# 283 Q: ALL RIGHT. THAT IS WHAT I'M TRYING TO FIND OUT. IS THERE SUCH A PHOTOGRAPH?
# 284 A: I WOULD HAVE TO -- I WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT THE PHOTOGRAPHS.
# 285 MR. COCHRAN: PERHAPS WHEN WE TAKE OUR BREAK YOU CAN HELP US WITH THAT?
# 286 THE WITNESS: CERTAINLY.
# 287 Q: NOW, SPEAKING OF CARS BEING PARKED, AT THE ROCKINGHAM LOCATION YESTERDAY YOU TALKED ABOUT THE BRONCO BEING PARKED IN A FASHION THAT WAS ASKEW OR WHATEVER WORDS YOU USED.
HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE THE WAY THE BRONCO WAS PARKED WHEN YOU FIRST SAW IT?
# 288 A: THE REAR END OF THE VEHICLE APPEARED TO BE JUTTING OUT IN THE STREET MORE THAN THE FRONT END AND PARKED AT AN ANGLE IN TOWARD THE CURB FACING NORTHBOUND.
# 289 Q: YESTERDAY WE SAW A PICTURE -- PICTURE DURING THE PRESENTATION BY THE PROSECUTION -- I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT -- SEE THAT PICTURE AGAIN, YOUR HONOR. I DON'T SEE JONATHAN HERE.
# 290 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.) # 291 THE COURT: DO WE KNOW WHICH PHOTOGRAPH YOU ARE LOOKING FOR?
# 292 MR. COCHRAN: WE ARE LOOKING FOR ONE OF THE BRONCO.
# 293 MS. CLARK: COUNSEL HAS ALL THE PHOTOGRAPHS.
# 294 THE COURT: I'M JUST --
# 295 MR. COCHRAN: THEY ARE NOT ON THE --
# 296 THE COURT: I UNDERSTAND THAT WE ALL HAVE THE SAME SET OF PHOTOS. I'M JUST WONDERING IF SOMEBODY RECALLS WHAT NUMBER IN EVIDENCE IT WAS.
# 297 MR. COCHRAN: YES. THIS WAS IN CROSS-EXAMINATION ALSO. DIRECT EXAMINATION AND --
# 299 MR. COCHRAN: 62-E, YOUR HONOR. DO WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO CALL THAT UP?
# 300 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.) # 301 MR. COCHRAN: IS THERE A PRINT? 62-E.
# 302 THE COURT: IT IS ON ONE OF THE POSTERS.
# 303 MR. COCHRAN: WELL, WE HAD IT IN DIRECT EXAMINATION YESTERDAY, YOUR HONOR.
# 304 THE COURT: IT IS ON THE BOARD.
# 306 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. COUNSEL THE COURT REPORTER REMINDS ME THAT I PROMISED TO QUIT AT 4:00 TODAY AND SO I HAVE TO TAKE MY BREAK NOW.
# 307 MR. COCHRAN: I DIDN'T HEAR WHAT YOU SAID NOW.
# 308 THE COURT: I NEED TO TAKE MY RECESS AT THIS POINT FOR THE COURT REPORTERS.
# 309 MR. COCHRAN: FINE, YOUR HONOR.
# 310 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE ARE GOING TO TAKE A 15-MINUTE RECESS. PLEASE REMEMBER MY ADMONITION TO YOU. DON'T DISCUSS THE CASE AMONG YOURSELVES, DON'T FORM ANY OPINIONS ABOUT THE CASE, DON'T CONDUCT ANY DELIBERATIONS, DON'T ALLOW ANYBODY TO COMMUNICATE WITH YOU. ASK YOU TO STEP BACK IN THE JURY ROOM AND WE WILL STAND IN RECESS FOR FIFTEEN MINUTES. AND DETECTIVE LANGE, YOU MAY STEP DOWN.
# 311 THE WITNESS: THANK YOU.