DNA and scientific evidence handling

📄 DNA and scientific evidence handling — Tuesday, February 21, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\FEB\21\DNA-AND-SCIENTIFIC-EVIDENCE-HA.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 22 of 167

Date: Tuesday, February 21, 1995 • Utterances: 38

A brief pre-session administrative discussion about the repackaging of the glove and watch cap evidence items, which were repackaged from plastic to paper bags at the defense's request to better preserve trace and biological evidence. The parties also worked out logistics for returning the items from SID (Scientific Investigation Division) in time for Detective Lange's continued testimony.

# 1 THE COURT:

MR. BAILEY, THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. MR. SCHECK, IS THERE SOMETHING WE NEED TO ADDRESS ON THE DNA, OTHER SCIENTIFIC TESTING?

# 2 MR. SCHECK:

I JUST WAS CONFERRING WITH MR. HODGMAN AND HE WILL BE DOWN AT THE MORNING BREAK. ONE THING BEFORE I ADDRESS THE SUBSTANTIVE MATTER, I JUST WANT TO SAY FOR THE COURT, I THINK EVERYTHING WENT VERY, VERY WELL AND THERE WAS A GREAT DEAL OF PROFESSIONALISM ON THE PART OF THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT, MR. RAQUEL, THE SID PERSON WHO WENT, ROBERT HORN FROM THE NEW YORK STATE POLICE AND A JAMES KENNEDY, AND EVERYBODY WAS WORKING UNTIL 2:00, 3:00 IN THE MORNING. AND I FELT REMISS UNLESS I WAS VERY COOPERATIVE, VERY PROFESSIONAL ON THE PART OF MR. CLARKE AND MR. HODGMAN AND SO WE ARE GRATEFUL FOR THAT.

# 3 THE COURT:

I WAS PLEASED NOBODY WAS CALLING ME AT HOME OVER THE WEEKEND.

KEY QUOTE

# 4 MR. SCHECK:

I FIGURED YOU MIGHT BE. THE ONE POINT I WANTED TO MAKE BEFORE WE BEGAN THE PROCEEDINGS TODAY WAS A PROPOSAL FOR THE COURT WITH RESPECT TO THE EVIDENCE AND HOW IT CAME IN AND MAYBE JUST A STATEMENT TO THE JURY, BECAUSE MY RECOLLECTION IS THAT AFTER MISS CLARK TOOK THE GLOVE AND THE WATCH CAP OUT OF ITS ORIGINAL PACKAGING AND THEN PUT IT INTO TWO SEPARATE PLASTIC BAGS, AND AT THAT POINT WE RAISED AN OBJECTION, THAT IT SHOULD NOT BE PACKAGED THAT WAY, MS. CLARK AGREED NOT TO HAVE IT PACKAGED THAT WAY, AT WHICH POINT THE GLOVE AND THE WATCH CAP WAS THEN PUT BACK INTO THE ORIGINAL PAPER BAGS AND THEN TWO SEPARATE PLASTIC ENVELOPES WERE CREATED THAT CONTAINED, AS IT TURNS OUT, TRACE EVIDENCE FROM BOTH OBJECTS AND -- EXCUSE ME FOR ONE SECOND.

# 5 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

# 6 MR. SCHECK:

SO I THINK IT WOULD BE IMPORTANT TO EXPLAIN TO THE JURY, AND I THINK IT SHOULD COME FROM THE COURT, EXACTLY WHAT TRANSPIRED AND THAT SINCE THEY LEFT THESE OBJECTS ARE NOW IN THE PACKAGING THAT THEY ARE AND THE EVENTS THAT LED TO THEM DOING IT IN A SIMPLE, FACTUAL DESCRIPTIVE WAY.

# 7 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, MR. SCHECK. MISS CLARK, ANY COMMENT ON MR. SCHECK'S PROPOSAL TO ADVISE THE JURY REGARDING THE REPACKAGING OF THOSE TWO ITEMS? AND WHAT IS -- MR. SCHECK, WHAT IS THEIR CURRENT STATUS RIGHT NOW? ARE THOSE TWO ITEMS STILL BEING EXAMINED AND TESTED?

# 8 MR. SCHECK:

OH, THE TERMS WERE THAT THOSE ITEMS WERE JUST ITEMS THAT WE COULD LOOK AT AND EXAMINE.

# 9 THE COURT:

RIGHT.

# 10 MR. SCHECK:

WITH RESPECT TO --

# 11 THE COURT:

I'M JUST CURIOUS AS TO WHERE THEY ARE AT THIS MOMENT.

# 12 MR. SCHECK:

OH, I THINK THEY ARE HERE, AREN'T THEY?

# 13 MS. CLARK:

NOT ALL OF THEM.

# 14 MR. SCHECK:

WELL, EVERYTHING -- WHAT IS BACK?

# 15 THE CLERK:

NOTHING.

# 16 MR. SCHECK:

THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO BE ON A COURIER AND BE HERE THIS MORNING, SO I WOULD HAVE TO ASK MR. HODGMAN ABOUT THAT, BUT I KNOW THAT THEY FLEW IT OUT YESTERDAY AFTERNOON.

# 17 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. MISS CLARK, HOW DO YOU INTEND TO PROCEED WITH THIS EVIDENCE THIS MORNING?

# 18 MS. CLARK:

I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T HEAR YOU.

# 19 THE COURT:

HOW DO YOU INTEND ON PROCEEDING THIS MORNING WITH THAT EVIDENCE SINCE THE COURIER HAS NOT RETURNED?

# 20 MS. CLARK:

WELL, I WOULD LIKE TO OBVIOUSLY HAVE IT BACK FOR THE BALANCE OF DETECTIVE LANGE'S TESTIMONY. THERE IS GOING TO BE QUITE A BIT MORE TESTIMONY ABOUT WHAT HE DID AT THE CRIME SCENE.

# 21 THE COURT:

OKAY.

# 22 MS. CLARK:

SO THAT IS A PROBLEM. THE OTHER THING IS THAT I HAVE NO OBJECTION TO THE JURY BEING INFORMED THAT IN ORDER TO PRESERVE TRACE AND BIOLOGICAL EVIDENCE ON THE ITEMS THEY WERE REPACKAGED, BECAUSE IT IS JUST A BETTER PROCEDURE, BUT THE PROBLEM I HAVE IN THE REPACKAGING, YOUR HONOR, IS THAT THE JURY IS NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO SEE THE EVIDENCE. IT IS GOING TO BE IN A BROWN PAPER BAG.

# 23 THE COURT:

WELL, NO. AT THE APPROPRIATE TIME THEY WILL BE ALLOWED TO LOOK AT IT IN AN APPROPRIATE MANNER.

# 24 MS. CLARK:

I MEAN SOMEBODY IS GOING TO HAVE TO --

# 25 THE COURT:

WE WILL CROSS THAT BRIDGE WHEN WE GET THERE. I MEAN, THEY HAVE SEEN ENOUGH PHOTOGRAPHS OF IT, THAT THEY DON'T NEED TO SEE IT UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL TO KNOW WHAT IT IS AT THIS POINT.

# 26 MS. CLARK:

OKAY.

# 27 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

# 28 THE COURT:

SO I TAKE IT YOU CAN PROCEED THIS MORNING, HOWEVER, USING PHOTOGRAPHS OF THOSE TWO ITEMS; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 29 MS. CLARK:

YES, AND I WILL.

# 30 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT.

# 31 MS. CLARK:

AS I UNDERSTAND IT NOW, I HAVE JUST BEEN INFORMED THAT THE ITEMS ARE NOW AT SID AND THEY WILL BE BACK IN COURT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

# 32 THE COURT:

THEY ARE BEING LOGGED BACK IN?

# 33 MS. CLARK:

EXACTLY, EXACTLY.

# 34 THE COURT:

THANK YOU, MR. SCHECK.

# 35 MS. CLARK:

THERE ARE ALSO OTHER ITEMS -- THERE ARE A COUPLE OF OTHER ITEMS THAT HAVE NOT BEEN RETURNED YET THAT I WAS GOING TO GET TO LATER ON IN THE TESTIMONY, IF I CAN CONFER WITH MR. SCHECK BRIEFLY TO FIND OUT WHERE THEY ARE AT.

# 36 THE COURT:

CERTAINLY.

# 37 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

# 38 MS. CLARK:

I'M INFORMED THAT IT WILL NOT BE A PROBLEM, SO WE CAN PROCEED.

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Lance A. Ito

I WAS PLEASED NOBODY WAS CALLING ME AT HOME OVER THE WEEKEND.

Rare moment of levity from Judge Ito, acknowledging the weekend coordination efforts went smoothly without requiring his intervention.

Barry Scheck

I THINK EVERYTHING WENT VERY, VERY WELL AND THERE WAS A GREAT DEAL OF PROFESSIONALISM ON THE PART OF THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT, MR. RAQUEL, THE SID PERSON WHO WENT, ROBERT HORN FROM THE NEW YORK STATE POLICE AND A JAMES KENNEDY, AND EVERYBODY WAS WORKING UNTIL 2:00, 3:00 IN THE MORNING.

Unusually generous praise from Scheck — a leading defense critic of LAPD evidence handling — signaling a cooperative weekend examination process.

Marcia Clark

THE PROBLEM I HAVE IN THE REPACKAGING, YOUR HONOR, IS THAT THE JURY IS NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO SEE THE EVIDENCE. IT IS GOING TO BE IN A BROWN PAPER BAG.

Clark flags a practical prosecution concern: paper bag repackaging, while scientifically correct, reduces the jury's ability to directly view the physical evidence.

Lance A. Ito

THEY HAVE SEEN ENOUGH PHOTOGRAPHS OF IT, THAT THEY DON'T NEED TO SEE IT UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL TO KNOW WHAT IT IS AT THIS POINT.

Ito dismisses Clark's concern about jury access to physical evidence, indicating photographs suffice — a ruling with implications for how evidence is presented.

Evidence (4)

Informal

The glove — repackaged from plastic bag back into original paper bag after defense objection to plastic packaging

discussed, repackaged, pending return from SID

Informal

The watch cap — same repackaging situation as the glove

discussed, repackaged, pending return from SID

Informal

Two separate plastic envelopes containing trace evidence collected from both the glove and watch cap during repackaging

created as byproduct of repackaging process

Informal

Other unspecified evidence items not yet returned from examination

discussed, confirmed will be available in time

Notable Exchanges (2)

Barry Scheck•Lance A. Ito

Scheck proposes the court give the jury a factual explanation of why the evidence was repackaged, to avoid juror confusion when they see items in different packaging than before.

strategic

Marcia Clark•Lance A. Ito

Clark objects in practical terms to the repackaging outcome — not to preservation procedure itself, but to its consequence of obscuring the physical evidence from jurors. Ito overrides the concern, saying photographs are sufficient.

procedural

Light Moments (1)

Lance A. Ito

Judge Ito drily notes he was glad no one called him at home over the weekend to resolve disputes about the evidence examination.

Witness Demeanor

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

Objections

None recorded

Proceeding 4893 • 38 utterances

Criminal Trial

Department 103