MR. FAIRTLOUGH, WOULD YOU TAKE DOWN THE EXHIBIT, PLEASE. THANK YOU. THE RECORD SHOULD REFLECT THE JURORS HAVE WITHDRAWN FROM THE COURTROOM. COUNSEL, MRS. ROBERTSON ADVISED ME THAT MR. HODGMAN CALLED, SAID HE'S ON HIS WAY DOWN. MR. HARMON AND MR. CLARK, WE HAVE TO RESOLVE THAT LAST ISSUE REGARDING PHYSICAL EVIDENCE.
MR. HARMON, ARE YOU GOING TO SPEAK FOR MR. HODGMAN ON THIS NON-BIOLOGICAL EVIDENCE ISSUE?
YOUR HONOR, IN THE MEANTIME, SO THE RECORD IS CLEAR, I JUST RECEIVED THIS AFTERNOON A STATEMENT GIVEN TO ME BY MR. DOUGLAS. IT'S A STATEMENT APPARENTLY FROM FIELD COLEMAN, A DEFENSE WITNESS, DATED JANUARY 21, 1995. IT RELATES TO DETECTIVE FUHRMAN AND IT'S AN ISSUE I'LL BRING UP LATER TO THE COURT.
YOUR HONOR, WHILE MR. HODGMAN IS COMING DOWN, CAN WE ADDRESS THAT ONE MATTER THAT HE RAISED WITH YOU, THE VISITATION AND THE FBI MONITORING ISSUE?
YOUR HONOR, JUST AS WE FINISHED OUR COLLOQUY THIS MORNING, I ASKED MR. HARMON AS HE WAS EXITING WHAT ARRANGEMENT COULD BE MADE TO OBSERVE THE SAMPLING OF THE SOCK AND ANY OTHER ITEM THAT THE FBI WAS GOING TO DO FOR PURPOSES OF EDTA TESTING, AND HE INDICATED TO ME AS WE LEFT THAT THAT WOULD NOT BE PERMITTED AND --
I UNDERSTAND THAT TO BE THE POLICY. NOW AGAIN, THIS RAISES JUST IN TERMS OF TIMING AND EQUITY THE SAME POINT THAT I MADE THIS MORNING, BUT I DIDN'T REALIZE THAT THIS WOULD ACTUALLY BE THE CASE WITH THE FBI WITH RESPECT TO THIS TEST. AND THAT IS THAT IF, FOR EXAMPLE, THEY ARE GOING TO BE CUTTING APART THE SOCK AS MR. HARMON INDICATED THIS MORNING THEY WOULD BE AT VARIOUS DIFFERENT POINTS, WE WOULD NOT HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO EXAMINE THAT SOCK, TO LOOK AT IT UNDER A MICROSCOPE, TO EXAMINE IT BEFORE IT IS AGAIN CUT AND DESTROYED. AND WE WANT THAT OPPORTUNITY BEFORE THE WITNESSES GET ON THE STAND AND TESTIFY, TO HAVE OUR EXPERTS LOOK AT IT. NOW, THE COURT DID NOTE THIS MORNING THAT -- I THINK THE ACTUAL TERM YOU USED WAS EXAMINE -- THAT DR. BLAKE HAD A CHANCE TO EXAMINE THE SOCK AND --
NO. I THINK -- I THOUGHT I WAS VERY, VERY PRECISE IN WHAT I SAID. THAT HE'S HAD THE CHANCE TO OBSERVE IT AND TO PHOTOGRAPH -- CONDUCT PHOTOGRAPHS AND/OR HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO VIDEOTAPE. HOWEVER, I NOTE JUST SO THE RECORD IS CLEAR THAT HE DID NOT PHYSICALLY TOUCH IT, FEEL IT, LOOK AT IT.
YES. THAT'S THE PROBLEM. HE DOESN'T HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO IT NOR DOES HE DIRECT THE EXAMINATION IN ANY WAY. MR. SIMS GETS SAMPLES, DOES WHAT HE WANTS WITH THEM. DR. BLAKE IS THERE SIMPLY AS A REPORTER AND OBSERVER AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM HERE. SO AGAIN, I WOULD BESEECH THE COURT TO PERMIT US WITH REGARD TO THE SOCK, TO HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY PERHAPS THIS WEEKEND SO THAT WE CAN HAVE OUR EXPERTS EXAMINE THE SOCK ALONG WITH THE OTHER EVIDENCE SO THAT WE CAN AT LEAST SEE IT BEFORE THEY PERFORM THE DESTRUCTIVE TEST. AND I THINK THAT'S CONSISTENT WITH THE REASONING OF GRIFFIN AND SOME GROUND THAT WE TRAVELED OVER ONCE BEFORE THIS AUGUST.
YOUR HONOR, IT'S JUST AMAZING. THEY JUST DON'T WANT US TO DO THIS THE WAY WE PROPOSE TO DO IT. AND IF WE REFLECT BACK ON WHEN I FIRST BROACHED THIS SUBJECT, I INVITED THEM TO AVOID THIS VERY THING BY JOINING WITH US. LET'S NOT -- YOU KNOW, DON'T MAKE US PICK A LAB THAT YOU DON'T LIKE AND THEN WANT TO NITPICK WITH DISCOVERY. AND I HAVE A LITTLE DIFFICULTY WITH MR. SCHECK'S SURPRISE THAT HE -- THAT THE FBI WON'T ALLOW VISITORS. HE KNOWS THAT. HE'S A NATIONAL DNA EXPERT. THEY JUST DON'T ALLOW THAT. SO THIS FEIGNED INDIGNATION OR SURPRISE IS, TO BORROW ONE OF HIS FAVORITE PHRASES, DISINGENUOUS AT BEST. WE COULD HAVE AVOIDED THIS HAD THEY SOUGHT TO DO THIS, TO FIND OUT THE TRUTH OF WHAT'S IN THOSE SOCKS AND NOW THE GATE STAINS WHICH HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED AS MR. SIMPSON'S. AND THEY DIDN'T DO IT. AND NOW WE HAVE FINALLY FOUND A SCHEDULE THAT PLEASES THIS COURT AND THEY WANT TO DO SOMETHING BEFORE THAT THAT INTERRUPTS THE LOGISTICS.
DR. BLAKE HAS SEEN THESE THINGS. HE'S SEEN WHEN THEY'VE BEEN SAMPLED. I RECOUNTED A DAY IN THE LIFE OF GARY SIMS OCTOBER 27TH WHEN THEY WERE THERE UNTIL MIDNIGHT. AND NOW, YOU KNOW, WE'RE IN THE BUSINESS OR WE'VE BEEN SETTING UP THIS ELABORATE PICKUP AND DELIVERY SCHEDULE WHERE WE WILL GET THE EVIDENCE WHERE WE SAID WE WOULD ON FRIDAY AND NOW THEY WANT IT TO BE SOMEPLACE ELSE ON SATURDAY AND SUNDAY. SO I'M AT A LOSS TO DO ANYTHING EXCEPT TO SAY YOU HAVE TOLD US WHAT WE COULD DO. THAT IS WHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO DO. WE WILL BE GLAD -- EVERYTHING HAS BEEN DOCUMENTED. THERE'S NOTHING TO FEAR EXCEPT THE TRUTH OF IS THERE ANY EDTA IN THAT SOCK, AND THAT'S WHAT WE WANT TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF, AND WE WILL KNOW THAT MONDAY EVENING AND MR. SCHECK CAN THEN HAVE AT IT. HE CAN HAVE HIS FRYE HEARING OR WHATEVER ELSE HE WANTS TO. SOMEHOW THE TALK OF ALL THESE FRYE HEARINGS TELLS YOU THAT THEY KNOW WHAT THE ANSWER IS GOING TO BE. THERE'S A REASON THEY KNOW BECAUSE SOMEBODY AT THE END OF THE TABLE TOLD THEM THAT. SO WE'D JUST LIKE TO --
YOUR HONOR, I OBJECT TO THAT. I THINK THAT'S HIGHLY IMPROPER, IT SERVES NO PURPOSE WHATSOEVER AND IF THIS IS A LEGITIMATE MOTION, LET HIM MAKE A MOTION, BUT IF HE'S HERE TO GIVE SPEECHES TO THE PUBLIC, WE HAVE A PLACE OUT FRONT TO DO THAT.
WELL, COUNSEL, COUNSEL, COME ON. WELL, MR. HARMON, ACTUALLY THE ISSUE WE ARE DISCUSSING HERE IS THE FBI POLICY REGARDING OUTSIDE OBSERVERS. WILL THEY BE VIDEOTAPING?
ALL RIGHT. SO IT'S YOUR POSITION THAT THIS IS THE LAB THAT CAN DO THIS TEST AND THAT'S THEIR STANDING POLICY, HAS BEEN THEIR POLICY FOREVER AND EVER.
THAT'S ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. MR. SCHECK KNOWS THAT TOO. COULD, YOU KNOW, SINCE WE ARE ADDING THINGS ON THE CALENDAR, WHERE IS 47, 50 AND 78? YOU ORDERED THEM TO TELL US WHERE THAT IS AND WE'RE DYING TO FIND THAT OUT.
I WANT TO JUST HEAR THE LAB COMMENTS ABOUT THE FBI POLICY, THEN I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM MR. HODGMAN ON THE NON-BIOLOGICAL EVIDENCE AND THEN WE'LL SHIFT INTO THE WHEREABOUTS OF THOSE THREE OTHER ITEMS.
WITH RESPECT TO MR. HODGMAN, YOUR HONOR, MAY WE -- HE'S NOT DOWN HERE, AND MAY WE REQUEST THAT WE ADDRESS THE NON-BIOLOGICAL EVIDENCE FIRST THING IN THE MORNING?
NO. I WAS TOLD WE WERE GOING TO DO THAT -- WE WERE SUPPOSED TO DO IT TODAY AT 9:00 O'CLOCK, AND YOU ASKED LEAVE OR MR. HARMON ASKED LEAVE ON MR. HODGMAN'S BEHALF TO FILE A LETTER WITH THE COURT WHICH I HAVE BEEN EXPECTING ALL DAY AND HAS NOT ARRIVED. I WAS TOLD THAT MR. HODGMAN WAS ON HIS WAY DOWN.
IT DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE THE CASE. WE HAVE NOT HAD A CHANCE TO DISCUSS THIS WITH MR. HODGMAN. THE FIRST THAT I HEARD HE WAS COMING DOWN WITH ANY KIND OF LETTER WAS WHEN THE COURT TOLD ME JUST A FEW MINUTES AGO.
WELL, THIS WAS THE BEGINNING OF OUR DISCUSSION AT 9:30 THIS MORNING IF YOU RECALL. MY RECOLLECTION IS THAT YOU WERE HERE IN COURT WITH US.
CORRECT. AND THE AGREEMENT WAS THAT MR. HODGMAN -- I WAS -- I HAD ENTERED AN ORDER THAT ALL THE NON-BIOLOGICAL MATTERS BE TURNED OVER. I RECOLLECT MR. HARMON THEN ASKED WOULD I PUT THAT OFF UNTIL THE END OF BUSINESS TODAY TO ALLOW MR. HODGMAN TO EXAMINE THE LIST AND LODGE ANY SPECIAL OBJECTIONS WHICH I SAID I WOULD GIVE HIM LEAVE UNTIL THE END OF THE DAY TODAY. SO I ASSUME EITHER I AM GOING TO GET A LETTER FROM MR. HODGMAN LAYING OUT SPECIFIC OBJECTIONS AND/OR A WAIVER OF THE OBJECTIONS TO THE ORDER OF TURNING OVER THE BIOLOGICAL EVIDENCE -- NON-BIOLOGICAL EVIDENCE. SPEAK OF THE DEVIL.
I FEEL SOME RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR ABSENCE FOR THE LAST FEW DAYS, LAST SEVERAL DAYS.
DON'T TAKE ANY RESPONSIBILITY ON YOURSELF, YOUR HONOR. I THINK THE RESPONSIBILITY WAS MINE. I APPRECIATE THE THOUGHT.
WELL, I'M CONCERNED THAT THE PRESSURES AND THE PACE OF THIS CASE ARE GOING TO TAKE ITS TOLL ON EVERYBODY INVOLVED AND I'M CONSIDERING MODIFYING THE COURT HOURS SIMPLY BECAUSE OF THE PHYSICAL STRESS THAT'S INVOLVED. AND I THINK -- I RECOLLECT THE LAST TIME WE MET THAT I HAD NEVER SEEN YOU QUITE IN THAT STATE BEFORE. AND YOU AND I HAVE KNOWN EACH OTHER FOR MANY YEARS, AND SO I FEEL SOME RESPONSIBILITY FOR HAVING CAUSED SO MUCH STRESS IN YOUR LIFE. I APOLOGIZE TO YOU FOR THAT. BUT HAVING SAID THAT --
KEY QUOTEYOUR HONOR, I DO HAVE A MATTER TO RAISE WITH THE COURT THIS MORNING HENCE MY ARRIVAL. BEFORE I ADDRESS THE COURT, MAY I HAVE JUST A MOMENT WITH COUNSEL?
YOUR HONOR, IN ORDER TO EXPEDITE MATTERS THIS AFTERNOON, I PREPARED THE LETTER WHICH I HAVE SERVED UPON THE COURT AS WELL AS COUNSEL.
OKAY. LET'S TAKE IT FROM THE TOP. ITEMS -- CATEGORY ONE, ITEMS WHICH THE PEOPLE REASONABLY ANTICIPATE WILL BE THE SUBJECT OF IMMINENT INTRODUCTION AT TRIAL. AND WHAT ARE THESE ITEMS? I DON'T HAVE MY CORRELATION LIST IMMEDIATELY AT HAND.
YES, YOUR HONOR. ITEM 18, ATHLETIC SHOES, REEBOK; ITEM 19, HAIR AND FIBERS WHICH WERE REMOVED FROM THE NUMBER 9 GLOVE; ITEM 27, A PLAID CAP; ITEM 35, KEYS, WHICH WERE RECOVERED FROM THE GROUND AT THE BUNDY CRIME SCENE; ITEM 40, A WHITE METAL RING RECOVERED FROM THE BUNDY CRIME SCENE; ITEM 46, A MENU OR PAPER MENU RECOVERED FROM THE BUNDY CRIME SCENE AND ITEM 110 WHICH CONSISTS OF SOME HAIRS AND FIBERS COLLECTED FROM THE GLOVE, OTHERWISE REFERRED TO AS ITEM NUMBER 9.
ALL RIGHT. WHEN YOU SAY IMMINENT INTRODUCTION, MISS CLARK, WHEN DO YOU ANTICIPATE GETTING TO THESE ITEMS?
THE -- I BELIEVE THE PLAID CAP, THE SKI CAP ARE GOING TO COME ON WITH THE VERY NEXT WITNESS. THE KEYS ARE GOING TO -- AND ITEM 35 AS WELL WILL COME ON WITH THE NEXT WITNESS.
YES. RON GOLDMAN. AND THE MENU ALSO. I MEAN THESE ARE ALL COMING IN NOW, I MEAN FRIDAY OR THE END OF TOMORROW DEPENDING ON WHEN WE FINISH DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.
LET ME ASK AS TO ITEMS 113, 160 THROUGH 169, 221, 225 THROUGH 235, ITEMS IN PARAGRAPH TWO, MR. SCHECK, IT'S THE REPRESENTATION OF THE PEOPLE THAT THESE ITEMS HAVE ALREADY BEEN EXAMINED BY THE DEFENSE.
LET'S DO THIS. COUNSEL, I'VE HAD MY COURT REPORTER WORKING ALL AFTERNOON. SO LET'S TAKE A BREAK. WHY DON'T YOU GUYS COMPARE YOUR NOTES BECAUSE -- YOU ATTORNEYS COMPARE YOUR NOTES. I'VE BEEN CRITICIZED FOR REFERRING GENERICALLY TO YOU ALL. WHY DON'T WE COMPARE OUR NOTES TO SEE WHAT ITEMS BECAUSE BY ITEM NUMBER, I CAN'T RECOLLECT AS TO WHAT EACH ONE OF THESE ARE. LET'S COMPARE OUR NOTES AND THEN WE CAN CONFER IN CHAMBERS AFTERWARDS. I NEED TO GIVE MY COURT REPORTER A BREAK. WE'LL STAND IN RECESS THEN TO 9:00 O'CLOCK. WE ARE IN RECESS UNTIL 9:00 O'CLOCK. I WILL SEE MR. SCHECK AND MR. HODGMAN IN CHAMBERS.
IT DOESN'T PLEASE ME. IT MOLLIFIES ME.
ONLY WHEN IT SUITS THE ENDS OF JUSTICE, YOUR HONOR.
THERE'S NOTHING TO FEAR EXCEPT THE TRUTH OF IS THERE ANY EDTA IN THAT SOCK, AND THAT'S WHAT WE WANT TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF.
I'M CONCERNED THAT THE PRESSURES AND THE PACE OF THIS CASE ARE GOING TO TAKE ITS TOLL ON EVERYBODY INVOLVED AND I'M CONSIDERING MODIFYING THE COURT HOURS SIMPLY BECAUSE OF THE PHYSICAL STRESS THAT'S INVOLVED.
I'VE BEEN CALLED MANY THINGS.