F. Lee Bailey cross-examines LAPD Watch Commander Sergeant Rossi about the management of the Bundy crime scene in the hours after the murders. Bailey methodically establishes that multiple officers walked the crime scene path before detectives arrived, potentially destroying invisible footprint evidence, and that no one called the coroner or criminalists for hours. A secondary focus is the delayed and disorganized notification of key personnel — including a forgotten order from a deputy chief — and that no effort was made to contact OJ Simpson until well after 4:00 a.m.
# 1 THE COURT: THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. BE SEATED. ALL RIGHT. SERGEANT ROSSI, WOULD YOU RESUME THE WITNESS STAND, PLEASE. ALL RIGHT. GOOD AFTERNOON, AGAIN, SERGEANT. YOU ARE REMINDED YOU ARE STILL UNDER OATH. MR. BAILEY, YOU MAY CONTINUE.
# 2 MR. BAILEY: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
# 3 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: SERGEANT, I THINK PRIOR TO THE RECESS, WE ESTABLISHED THE FACT THAT ONE OF THE CONCERNS AFTER A HOMICIDE OCCURS IS THE NOTIFICATION OF OTHER POSSIBLE RELATED VICTIMS.
# 5 Q: AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT YOUR DEPARTMENT, TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, FIRST ATTENDED TO SOMETIME AFTER 5:00 O'CLOCK THAT MORNING?
# 6 A: AS FAR AS I KNOW, YES, THE DETECTIVES DID.
# 7 Q: NOW, THERE ARE OTHER THINGS THAT NEED TO BE LOOKED AFTER AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE WHEN A HOMICIDE OCCURS, RIGHT?
# 9 Q: WELL, NOTIFYING THE DETECTIVES TO GET TO THE SCENE SO THEY CAN DETECT, RIGHT?
# 11 Q: AND IN THIS CASE, YOU NOTIFIED DETECTIVE III RON PHILLIPS AT EXACTLY 1:00 A.M. ACCORDING TO YOUR OWN RECORDS THAT THERE HAD BEEN A DOUBLE HOMICIDE AND YOU HAD TOLD HIM WHO HAD BEEN KILLED, DIDN'T YOU?
# 12 A: I TOLD HIM THAT THERE WAS A POSSIBILITY THAT'S WHO THE VICTIM WAS, YES, SIR.
# 13 Q: AND -- WELL, THERE WASN'T MUCH DOUBT IN YOUR MIND AFTER RISKE TOLD YOU WHAT HE FOUND IN THE HOUSE, WAS THERE?
# 14 A: I WAS PRETTY SURE.
# 15 Q: OKAY. YOU SAID YOU DIDN'T KNOW HE WAS CALLING FROM THE HOUSE A LITTLE WHILE AGO, DIDN'T YOU?
# 17 Q: YOU DIDN'T KNOW THAT EVEN THOUGH HE TOLD YOU HE'S LOOKING AT A PICTURE OF O.J. SIMPSON AND A LETTER ADDRESSED TO O.J. SIMPSON?
# 18 A: HE DIDN'T TELL ME THAT, SIR.
# 19 Q: OH, HE DIDN'T TELL YOU THAT?
# 21 Q: OH. WHEN DID YOU FIRST HEAR THAT FROM OFFICER RISKE?
# 22 A: I DIDN'T HEAR THAT FROM RISKE.
# 23 Q: TO THIS VERY DAY?
# 25 Q: OKAY. THE WORD "LITHOGRAPH" DOESN'T BRING BACK ANY MEMORIES; IS THAT RIGHT?
# 27 Q: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. HOW FAR AWAY FROM BUNDY DOES OFFICER PHILLIPS LIVE?
# 29 Q: ALL RIGHT. IN WHAT COMMUNITY?
# 30 A: IN THE SANTA CLARITA VALLEY.
# 31 Q: AND OFFICER FUHRMAN LIVES DOWN SOMEWHERE AROUND REDONDO BEACH?
# 32 A: I'M NOT SURE WHERE OFFICER OR DETECTIVE FUHRMAN LIVES.
# 33 Q: DO YOU KNOW DETECTIVE MARK FUHRMAN AT ALL?
# 35 Q: HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN FAMILIAR WITH HIM?
# 36 A: ABOUT FOUR YEARS.
# 39 Q: DID YOU KNOW HIM IN 1989?
# 41 Q: DID YOU KNOW HIM IN 1985?
# 43 Q: OKAY. WHEN YOU TALKED TO PHILLIPS AND HE SAID, "LOOK, I'LL TAKE CARE OF NOTIFYING FUHRMAN," YOU TOOK HIM AT HIS WORD AND DID NOT CALL MARK FUHRMAN, CORRECT?
# 45 Q: DID THEY GIVE YOU OR DID PHILLIPS GIVE YOU ANY ESTIMATE AS TO WHEN YOU MIGHT ANTICIPATE THAT HE WOULD ARRIVE TO TAKE OVER THE CRIME SCENE?
# 46 A: HE TOLD ME HE WOULD GET THERE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
# 47 Q: AS SOON AS POSSIBLE?
# 49 Q: WHICH TURNED OUT TO BE AN HOUR AND 10 MINUTES, RIGHT?
# 50 A: I BELIEVE THAT'S CORRECT.
# 51 Q: NOW, DID HE EXPLAIN WHY IT WAS NECESSARY TO MEET DETECTIVE FUHRMAN AT THE STATION AND THEN THEY BOTH GO TO THE CRIME SCENE?
# 53 Q: WAS IT NOT PLAIN TO YOU THAT THAT ARRANGEMENT WOULD REQUIRE THAT THE LATER OF THE TWO WOULD HOLD UP THE OTHER ONE?
# 54 A: I DIDN'T KNOW THAT THAT WAS THE PLAN.
# 55 Q: WERE YOU ANXIOUS TO GET THEM AT THE CRIME SCENE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE?
# 57 Q: WOULD YOU EXPLAIN TO THE COURT AND JURY THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN YOURSELF AS WATCH COMMANDER WITH RESPECT TO RESPONSIBILITIES AND SERGEANT COON?
# 58 A: SERGEANT COON IS A FIELD SUPERVISOR.
# 59 Q: I UNDERSTAND THAT. HE ARRIVED WITHIN APPARENTLY 10 OR 15 MINUTES OF OFFICER RISKE AND OFFICERS MC GOWAN AND WALLY, RIGHT?
# 60 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. COUNSEL IS TESTIFYING.
# 61 THE COURT: SUSTAINED. THE QUESTION ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE.
# 62 MR. BAILEY: I'M SORRY. I THOUGHT THAT HE HAD TOLD US THAT OFFICER RISKE ARRIVED AT 12:15.
# 64 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: WHEN DID OFFICER RISKE ARRIVE --
# 65 THE COURT: OFFICER RISKE ALREADY TESTIFIED AS TO WHEN IT WAS HE ARRIVED. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SERGEANT COON.
# 66 MR. BAILEY: NO, NO. I'M TALKING ABOUT RISKE AND COON AS RELATED TO RISKE.
# 67 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: WHEN DID COON ARRIVE IF YOU KNOW?
# 68 A: SHORTLY AFTER OFFICER RISKE ARRIVED.
# 69 Q: IF THE CRIME LOG SAYS 30 MINUTES AFTER THE HOUR, WOULD YOU ACCEPT THAT?
# 70 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.
# 71 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
# 72 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: OKAY. WHEN YOU SAY SHORTLY, YOU MEAN MINUTES, HOURS? CAN YOU HELP US ANY BETTER THAN SHORTLY?
# 73 A: WITHIN A FEW MINUTES?
# 74 Q: A FEW MINUTES. NOW, WHEN SERGEANT COON ARRIVED, WHO WAS IN CHARGE OF THAT CRIME SCENE?
# 76 Q: OKAY. SO THAT IF ANY TRANSGRESSIONS WERE MADE UPON THE INTEGRITY OF THE CRIME SCENE, HE WOULD BE THE ONE RESPONSIBLE, TRUE?
# 77 A: UNTIL I GOT OUT THERE, SERGEANT COON WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIME SCENE.
# 78 Q: NOW, WHEN YOU GOT THERE, WHO WAS IN CHARGE UNTIL THE DETECTIVES ARRIVED?
# 80 Q: IF DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, WHO WAS A SLIGHTLY LOWER GRADE THAN YOU ARE AS I UNDERSTAND IT, HAD ARRIVED ALONE BEFORE PHILLIPS, WOULD HE NONETHELESS HAVE BEEN IN CHARGE OF THE CRIME SCENE BY VIRTUE OF BEING A DETECTIVE?
# 82 Q: AND WOULD HE HAVE THEN TAKEN FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHATEVER HAPPENED THERE?
# 84 Q: AND IF HE HAD ISSUED DIRECTIONS, WOULD YOU HAVE FELT BOUND TO FOLLOW THEM?
# 86 Q: BUT WHEREAS THEY ARRIVED TOGETHER, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS OF COURSE BEING A THIRD GRADE, IS SUPERIOR IN RANK ANYWAY; IS HE NOT?
# 88 Q: AND BY VIRTUE OF BEING A DETECTIVE, HE NONETHELESS HAS THE RIGHT TO CONTROL THE CRIME SCENE?
# 90 Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, WHERE IN THE REGULATIONS IS IT PROVIDED THAT THE WATCH COMMANDER WILL GO UPON THE CRIME SCENE AFTER IT'S BEEN SECURED AND WHILE WAITING FOR DETECTIVES? IS THERE ANYTHING IN THE MANUAL ABOUT THAT?
# 91 A: NOT THAT I KNOW OF.
# 92 Q: HOW OFTEN HAVE YOU DONE IT?
# 93 A: EVERY TIME I'VE SECURED A CRIME SCENE.
# 94 Q: OKAY. WELL, MY UNDERSTANDING IS, YOU WERE TOLD THE CRIME KEEP WAS SECURED BEFORE YOU GOT THERE.
# 96 Q: EXPERIENCE WOULD TEACH THAT ANY TIME YOU WALK UPON THE GROUND, YOU MAY AFFECT WHAT IS ALREADY THERE, RIGHT?
# 97 A: NO, NOT IN THIS CASE. I WAS CAREFUL WHERE I WALKED. I WAS WATCHING.
# 98 Q: YOU WERE CAREFUL WHERE YOU WALKED?
# 100 Q: DO YOU KNOW WHAT A FOOTPRINT LOOKS LIKE?
# 102 Q: YOU DO. CAN IT BE SEEN WITH A NAKED EYE?
# 104 Q: ALL FOOTPRINTS CAN BE SEEN WITH A NAKED EYE?
# 105 A: WELL, IF THEY'RE A FOOTPRINT, IF THEY'RE VISIBLE, THEY CAN BE.
# 106 Q: DON'T YOU KNOW THAT MANY FOOTPRINTS CAN'T BE SEEN UNTIL THEY'RE DUSTED WITH POWDER?
# 107 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE. CALLS FOR SPECULATION.
# 108 THE COURT: OVERRULED. OVERRULED.
# 109 MS. CLARK: ARGUMENTATIVE.
# 110 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: DID YOU KNOW THAT?
# 112 Q: DID YOU KNOW THAT SOME FOOTPRINTS CAN'T BE SEEN EXCEPT WHEN SHOWN WITH AN OBLIQUE LIGHT?
# 113 MS. CLARK: ARGUMENTATIVE.
# 114 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 115 SGT. DAVID ROSSI: I SUPPOSE THAT'S POSSIBLE.
# 116 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: HAVE YOU EVER HEARD THAT IN ALL OF YOUR TRAINING IN THE 300 HOMICIDE SCENES YOU'VE BEEN AT?
# 118 Q: OKAY. NOW, HAVING THAT IN MIND, AT THE TIME YOU WERE THERE, DID IT OCCUR TO YOU THAT A FOOTPRINT LEFT ON THE HARD SURFACE AND NOT VISIBLE TO THE NAKED EYE COULD BE DISRUPTED BY YOU WALKING AROUND THOSE BODIES?
# 120 Q: DID NOT. ALL RIGHT. AS YOU WALKED DOWN THE BACK ALLEY FROM THE ALLEY BEHIND THE HOUSE TOWARD BUNDY UNTIL YOU SAW BLOODY FOOTPRINTS AND TURNED AROUND AND BACKED OUT, HAD YOU SEEN ANYTHING OF SIGNIFICANCE?
# 122 Q: WHAT HAD YOU SEEN BEFORE YOU TURNED AROUND?
# 123 A: THERE WAS SOME BLOOD DROPLETS OUT BEHIND THE GARAGE.
# 124 Q: OKAY. NOW, THAT GAVE YOU REASON TO SUSPECT THAT MAYBE ONE OR MORE OF THE PERPETRATORS HAD USED THAT MEANS TO EXIT THE PREMISES?
# 126 Q: AND WHEN YOU SAW THE BLOOD DROPS, YOU NONETHELESS CONTINUED DOWN THE WALKWAY, CORRECT?
# 128 Q: AND PERHAPS IN THE COURSE OF IT, OBLITERATED SOME OF THOSE FOOTPRINTS THE NAKED EYE CAN'T SEE, TRUE?
# 129 A: I DON'T BELIEVE I DID THAT.
# 130 Q: ALL RIGHT. YOU SAY YOU DON'T BELIEVE THAT YOU DID.
# 132 Q: WOULD YOU EXPLAIN TO THE JURY HOW YOU COULD NOT BELIEVE THAT YOU OBLITERATED SOMETHING THAT YOU COULDN'T SEE IN THE FIRST PLACE?
KEY QUOTE # 133 A: BECAUSE I WAS CAREFUL WHERE I WALKED.
# 134 Q: WHAT DIFFERENCE WOULD THAT MAKE IF THERE WERE A DUST RESIDUE FOOTPRINT ON THE WALKWAY?
# 135 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION.
# 136 THE COURT: NOW WE'RE ARGUING.
# 138 THE COURT: WE ARE ARGUING NOW.
# 140 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: IF YOU'RE CAREFUL WHERE YOU WALK, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN; THAT YOU AVOID STEPPING ON THINGS OF SIGNIFICANCE?
# 142 Q: OKAY. AND IF SOMETHING SIGNIFICANT CAN'T BE SEEN, CAN YOU AVOID STEPPING ON IT?
# 143 A: IF I CAN'T SEE IT, NO.
# 144 Q: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. IS IT YOUR EXPERIENCE FROM BEING INVOLVED AS A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER IN A GREAT MANY HOMICIDES -- STRIKE THAT OUT. DO YOU NORMALLY GET TO THE SCENE BEFORE THE DETECTIVES?
# 146 Q: AND SO THERE GENERALLY IN EACH HOMICIDE THAT YOU INVESTIGATE AS A WATCH COMMANDER AT LEAST WILL BE A PERIOD WHERE YOU HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY, TRUE?
# 147 A: WOULD YOU REPEAT THAT, SIR?
# 148 Q: YES. IN THE AVERAGE HOMICIDE ON WHICH YOU WORK LET'S SAY IN THE PAST FIVE OR 10 YEARS, IS THERE GENERALLY A PERIOD OF TIME AFTER THE PATROLMEN ARRIVE AND BEFORE THE DETECTIVES ARRIVE WHEN YOU, THE WATCH COMMANDER, A SERGEANT, WILL BE IN CHARGE OF THE CRIME SCENE?
# 150 Q: ALL RIGHT. AMONG THE OBJECTIVES OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT WHEN A HOMICIDE OCCURS THAT THEY HAVE BEEN UNABLE TO PREVENT -- PREVENTION IS THE FIRST OBJECTIVE, ISN'T IT?
# 151 A: THE FIRST OBJECTIVE OF COURSE IS THE SAVING OF ANY LIFE.
# 152 Q: OF COURSE. BUT I MEAN, IF YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO PREVENT A HOMICIDE, YOU'LL DO THAT.
# 154 Q: AND IF YOU CAN'T PREVENT IT, BUT CAN SAVE THE VICTIM, THEN THAT BECOMES PRIMARY.
# 156 Q: AND IF YOU CAN'T SAVE THE VICTIM BECAUSE THE VICTIM IS ALREADY DEAD, THEN IDENTIFICATION OF THE GUILTY AND EXCLUSION OF THE INNOCENT ARE TWO PARALLEL RESPONSIBILITIES, CORRECT?
# 158 THE COURT REPORTER: COUNSEL, CAN I STOP YOU FOR A SECOND?
# 159 MR. BAILEY: CERTAINLY.
# 161 MR. BAILEY: ALL SET?
# 162 THE COURT REPORTER: YES. THANK YOU.
# 163 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: IS IT NOT FAIR TO SAY THAT THEY ARE ABOUT EQUALLY IMPORTANT, SERGEANT ROSSI?
# 165 Q: BECAUSE TO IDENTIFY THE GUILTY PERSON IN A HOMICIDE, IT IS OFTEN NECESSARY TO EXCLUDE OTHER POSSIBLE SUSPECTS, TRUE?
# 167 Q: NOW, IN THAT RESPECT, IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT TIME OF DEATH IS AN ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL FACTOR IN SOLVING A HOMICIDE?
# 168 A: I THINK THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT.
# 169 Q: YES. AND IT CAN BE CONTROLLING, CORRECT?
# 171 Q: ONCE YOU KNOW THE TIME OF DEATH, IT BECOMES MUCH EASIER TO EXCLUDE PEOPLE WHO ARE ELSEWHERE, TRUE?
# 172 A: I CAN'T ACCURATELY TESTIFY TO THAT. I'M NOT A HOMICIDE INVESTIGATOR.
# 173 Q: OH, I UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT AS A MATTER OF SURE LOGIC.
# 174 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. ARGUMENTATIVE.
# 175 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
# 176 MR. BAILEY: STRIKE IT OUT.
# 177 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: AS A MATTER OF YOUR EXPERIENCE, WOULD YOU SAY THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT AT A HOMICIDE SCENE AT ANY TIME WHEN IT'S GOING ON PROBABLY DIDN'T COMMIT THE HOMICIDE?
# 178 THE COURT: WELL, THAT CALLS FOR A LEGAL CONCLUSION, COUNSELOR.
# 179 MR. BAILEY: IT DOES?
# 180 THE COURT: WE HAVE THE LAW OF AIDING AND ABETTING IN THIS STATE.
# 181 MR. BAILEY: NO. I SAID COMMIT.
# 182 THE COURT: INTO A CONSPIRACY? SURE. TRUST ME, IT'S A LEGAL CONCLUSION.
# 183 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: OKAY. IS IT IMPORTANT TO KNOW THE WHEREABOUTS OF POSSIBLE SUSPECTS AT THE TIME OF DEATH AS IT IS ESTABLISHED IN THE INVESTIGATION?
# 185 Q: OKAY. NOW, DID YOU AT THE TIME THAT YOU ARRIVED AT THE CRIME SCENE HAVE ANY BRACKETS? THAT IS TO SAY, THE LAST TIME THE VICTIMS COULD HAVE BEEN ALIVE AND THE LAST TIME -- THE TIME THEY WERE KNOWN TO BE DEAD?
# 186 A: I DIDN'T HAVE THAT INFORMATION.
# 187 Q: WELL, YOU HAD THIS INFORMATION; THAT SOME WITNESSES AT THE SCENE HAD CALLED THE POLICE --
# 188 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. COUNSEL IS TESTIFYING. MAY WE APPROACH?
# 189 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 190 MR. BAILEY: WELL, STRIKE IT OUT. STRIKE IT OUT, YOUR HONOR.
# 191 THE COURT: WITHDRAWN.
# 192 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: WHAT DID YOU LEARN ABOUT THE DISCOVERY OF THE BODIES AS TO TIME?
# 193 A: THE ONLY THING I KNEW ABOUT TIME WAS WHEN --
# 194 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.
# 195 THE COURT: OVERRULED. THIS IS NOT A FACT IN DISPUTE, COUNSEL.
# 196 SGT. DAVID ROSSI: THE ONLY THING I KNEW ABOUT TIME WAS WHEN MY OFFICERS ARRIVED -- THE FIRST ARRIVING OFFICERS WERE -- FOUND THE VICTIMS. IS THAT WHAT YOU MEANT?
# 197 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: YEAH. AND THEY TOLD YOU THAT THERE WERE WITNESSES THERE WHO DISCOVERED THE BODIES, RIGHT?
# 199 Q: OKAY. AND THAT THIS WAS ALL WITHIN A FEW MINUTES?
# 201 Q: ALL RIGHT. SO AS YOU SAT THERE AS WATCH COMMANDER, DID YOU ASSUME THAT YOU HAD A COUPLE BODIES ON YOUR HAND THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN KILLED AS LATE AS MIDNIGHT, THEREABOUTS?
# 202 A: I DIDN'T ASSUME ANYTHING ABOUT TIME, SIR, AT THAT POINT.
# 203 Q: BUT YOU DID KNOW THEY WERE DEAD BY THE TIME THEY WERE REPORTED AS SUCH?
# 205 Q: AS TO WHEN THEY WERE LAST ALIVE, DID YOU HEAR ANYTHING THAT NIGHT FROM OFFICER RISKE ABOUT ICE CREAM?
# 206 A: YES, HE -- I DID.
# 207 Q: WHAT CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT ICE CREAM? WHAT DOES IT DO WHEN IT'S OUTSIDE THE REFRIGERATOR?
# 209 Q: THAT DEPENDS A LITTLE BIT ON THE AMBIENT TEMPERATURE AS TO THE RATE AT WHICH IT MELTS, RIGHT?
# 211 Q: AND THE KIND OF ICE CREAM THAT'S MELTING?
# 212 A: I DON'T -- I CAN'T TESTIFY TO THE TYPE OF ICE CREAM. I DON'T KNOW --
# 213 Q: YOU'RE NOT AN EXPERT ON MELTING RATES?
# 215 Q: OKAY. DID OFFICER RISKE TELL YOU THAT HE HAD DISCOVERED IN THE HOME OF THE FEMALE VICTIM SOME PARTIALLY MELTED ICE CREAM?
# 216 A: AT ONE POINT THAT EVENING, HE DID, YES.
# 217 Q: AND DID THAT GIVE YOU ANY IDEA AS TO WHAT THE BRACKETS WERE AROUND THE PERIOD DURING WHICH THE HOMICIDE COULD HAVE BEEN COMMITTED?
# 218 A: NO. NO, IT DIDN'T.
# 219 Q: ALL RIGHT. SO FOR ALL YOU KNEW AT THAT POINT, IT COULD HAVE BEEN MUCH EARLIER THE PREVIOUS DAY, JUNE 12TH, THAT THE VICTIM WAS LAST SEEN ALIVE?
# 220 A: I WASN'T GIVING TIME OF DEATH ANY KIND OF A THOUGHT, SIR.
# 221 Q: I UNDERSTAND THAT. YOU WERE GIVEN A TIME WHEN EVERYBODY KNEW THEY WERE DEAD. I'M ASKING YOU, WERE YOU GIVEN ANY INFORMATION AS TO WHEN THEY WERE LAST SEEN OR HEARD AS BEING ALIVE?
# 223 Q: OKAY. THE BROADER THAT TIME CAN BE, THE MORE IMPORTANT THE MEDICAL AND SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE IS IN ESTABLISHING TIME OF DEATH. WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THAT?
# 224 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. CALLS FOR SPECULATION.
# 225 THE COURT: ARGUMENTATIVE. YES, IT IS, CALLS FOR SPECULATION. IT'S BEYOND THE SCOPE OF THIS WITNESS' TESTIMONY. THIS IS SOMETHING YOU CAN COVER WITH ANOTHER WITNESS.
# 226 MR. BAILEY: I UNDERSTAND.
# 227 THE COURT: THANK YOU.
# 228 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: I THINK YOU TOLD US SOMETIME AGO THAT YOU WERE AWARE THAT ESTABLISHING TIME OF DEATH COULD BE VERY IMPORTANT TO AN INVESTIGATION.
# 230 Q: AND I THINK YOU'VE ALSO TOLD US THAT FOR A PERIOD OF TIME, FROM 1:25 UNTIL 2:10, YOU WERE THE PERSON IN CHARGE OF THE SCENE.
# 231 A: CHARGE OF SECURING THE SCENE, YES.
# 232 Q: AND IN CHARGE OF THE CASE UNTIL THE DETECTIVES ARRIVED?
# 233 A: NO, I WAS NOT IN CHARGE OF THE CASE, SIR.
# 236 Q: YOU HAD NO OBLIGATION TO TAKE ANY STEPS TO EITHER FIND THE KILLERS OR CALL FOR ADDITIONAL HELP?
# 237 A: NOT AT THAT POINT. MY OBLIGATION WAS TO MAKE SURE THAT CRIME SCENE WAS PROTECTED.
# 238 Q: IS IT THE POLICY OF YOUR DEPARTMENT NOT TO LET ANYONE CALL FOR THE CORONER TECHNICIANS UNTIL THE DETECTIVES GET THERE?
# 239 A: GENERALLY THAT'S A DETECTIVE'S ADVISE, YES.
# 240 Q: IS THERE ANY CASE, ANY CASE IN LOS ANGELES WHERE THE CORONER IS NOT CALLED AFTER A MURDER OCCURS THAT YOU KNOW OF?
# 241 A: NOT THAT I KNOW OF, NO.
# 242 Q: DO YOU THINK THERE'S ANY RISK WHATSOEVER IN NOT CALLING THE CORONER PROMPTLY?
# 243 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. AGAIN, CALLS FOR SPECULATION. THIS IS NOT --
# 244 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
# 245 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: DID YOU KNOW HIS NUMBER?
# 246 A: THE CORONER'S NUMBER?
# 247 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. THIS IS IRRELEVANT, ARGUMENTATIVE.
# 248 THE COURT: OVERRULED. OVERRULED.
# 249 SGT. DAVID ROSSI: I DON'T KNOW IT BY HEART, BUT I HAD ACCESS TO IT.
# 250 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: COULD YOU HAVE REACHED THE CORONER'S OFFICE IF YOU WANTED TO?
# 252 Q: IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT AT NO TIME DID YOU ATTEMPT TO DO THAT?
# 254 Q: OKAY. NOW, I THINK YOU'VE DESCRIBED FOR US THE PLACES THAT YOU WENT BEFORE DETECTIVES PHILLIPS AND FUHRMAN ARRIVED AT ABOUT 10 MINUTES AFTER 2:00 THAT MORNING.
# 256 Q: IS THAT THE FIRST TIME YOU SAW THEM THAT DAY?
# 257 A: IS THAT THE FIRST TIME I SAW THE DETECTIVES? YES, IT IS.
# 260 Q: HAD YOU SEEN THEM ON JUNE 12TH?
# 261 A: I DON'T REMEMBER IF I DID.
# 262 Q: OKAY. DID THEY ARRIVE TOGETHER IN THE SAME VEHICLE?
# 264 Q: DO YOU REMEMBER WHERE THEY PARKED?
# 266 Q: NOW, HAD YOU THE SLIGHTEST IDEA WHEN THEY ARRIVED WHO THE OTHER VICTIM, THAT IS TO SAY, THE MALE VICTIM WAS?
# 267 A: NO, SIR, I DIDN'T.
# 268 Q: DO YOU KNOW IF ANY EFFORTS HAD BEEN MADE TO IDENTIFY THAT VICTIM?
# 270 Q: HAD ANYONE TAKEN DOWN THE NUMBERS OF AUTOMOBILES PARKED IN THE VICINITY ON THE CHANCE THAT THE VICTIM MAY HAVE DRIVEN TO THE SCENE?
# 272 Q: HAD THEY BEEN RUN THROUGH THE CENTRAL COMPUTER TO IDENTIFY THE REGISTERED OWNERS?
# 273 A: I DON'T BELIEVE SO AT THAT POINT.
# 274 Q: HAD NOT BEEN DONE BY 2:10 A.M.?
# 275 A: NOT THAT I KNOW OF.
# 276 Q: DO YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT -- BY THE WAY, HOW LONG DID YOU SPEND INSIDE THE HOME AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY?
# 277 A: I NEVER WENT INSIDE.
# 278 Q: YOU NEVER WENT INSIDE.
# 280 Q: DID YOU ASK FOR A DESCRIPTION OF WHAT WAS INSIDE FROM ANY OF THE OFFICERS WHO HAD BEEN THROUGH IT?
# 282 Q: DID YOU EVER LEARN WHETHER OR NOT THERE WAS A LIST IN THE KITCHEN OF ALL THE IMPORTANT NUMBERS, PHONE NUMBERS, POLICE, FIRE, RELATIVES, ET CETERA?
# 284 Q: DID YOU EVER ASK?
# 285 A: NO, I DIDN'T ASK.
# 286 Q: OKAY. WHAT WAS THE VERY FIRST THING THAT THE TWO DETECTIVES DID WHEN THEY ARRIVED AND AFTER YOU TOLD THEM WHAT YOU HAD SEEN WHEN YOU WENT ONTO THE CRIME SCENE?
# 287 A: THEY VIEWED THE VICTIMS.
# 288 Q: WELL, DO YOU KNOW WHAT THEIR PURPOSE WAS IN DOING THAT?
# 289 A: TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE IMMEDIATE CRIME SCENE.
# 290 Q: AND WHAT PATH DID THEY TAKE TO GET FROM THE SIDEWALK WHERE I PRESUME THEY STARTED TO THE SCENE INSIDE THE GATE? DO YOU KNOW?
# 291 A: THEY TOOK THE SAME PATH THAT I HAD TAKEN.
# 292 Q: SO IF RISKE TOOK THAT PATH AND YOU TOOK IT AND NOW THE TWO DETECTIVES HAD TAKEN IT, HAD ANYONE ELSE TAKEN IT IN THE INTERIM?
# 294 Q: SERGEANT COON. HOW ABOUT ANY -- HOW ABOUT CAPTAIN ZEALMAN FROM THE FIRE DEPARTMENT?
# 295 A: HE WASN'T THERE WHEN I WAS THERE.
# 298 Q: HADN'T HE ALREADY COME AND GONE?
# 299 A: I BELIEVE SO, YES.
# 300 Q: OH. AND HE WAS THERE TO ASSURE THAT THE BODIES WERE DEAD?
# 302 Q: AND HAD DONE THAT?
# 303 A: AS FAR AS I KNOW.
# 304 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THAT CALLS FOR SPECULATION, HEARSAY, NO PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE.
# 305 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 306 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: DO YOU KNOW HOW HE GOT FROM THE SIDEWALK TO THE CRIME SCENE?
# 307 THE COURT: WHO IS HE?
# 308 MR. BAILEY: CAPTAIN ZEALMAN, YOUR HONOR.
# 309 THE COURT: IF HE HAD COME AND GONE, HOW DOES HE KNOW?
# 310 MR. BAILEY: SOMEONE MAY HAVE TOLD HIM.
# 311 THE COURT: HEARSAY, SPECULATION. NEXT QUESTION.
# 312 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: OKAY. DO YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT HE HAD WALKED THE SAME PATH THAT YOU WALKED?
# 313 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. THAT ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE, THAT HE WALKED AT ALL.
# 314 THE COURT: OVERRULED. A MORE ARTFULLY PHRASED QUESTION. YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION, IF YOU KNOW.
# 315 SGT. DAVID ROSSI: PLEASE REPEAT IT.
# 316 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: DO YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT HE HAD WALKED FROM THE SIDEWALK TO THE CRIME SCENE ON THE SAME PATH THAT YOU AND RISKE AND COON HAD WALKED?
# 317 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. CALLS FOR HEARSAY, ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE. THIS WITNESS SAID HE CAME RIGHT BEFORE HE GOT THERE. HOW WOULD HE KNOW? ONLY BY HEARSAY.
# 318 THE COURT: THE QUESTION IS, DO YOU KNOW. OVERRULED. DO YOU KNOW?
# 319 SGT. DAVID ROSSI: NO, SIR, I DON'T KNOW.
# 320 THE COURT: NEXT QUESTION.
# 321 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: OKAY. DID PHILLIPS AND FUHRMAN WALK TOGETHER UP THAT SAME PATH?
# 323 Q: CAN YOU NOW REMEMBER THE NATURE OF THE SURFACE OF THE EARTH OVER WHICH ALL OF YOU WALKED THAT MORNING?
# 324 A: IT WAS A FORM OF GRASS AS I RECALL.
# 325 Q: WASN'T IT SOFT LOAM IN WHICH PLANTS WERE GROWING?
# 326 A: THERE WERE PLANTS, GROUND-COVER TYPE PLANTS, YES.
# 327 Q: YOU TOLD US EARLIER THAT IN ORDER TO BE SURE THAT YOU DIDN'T DISTURB ANY EVIDENCE, YOU TOOK YOUR FLASHLIGHT AND WALKED UP THE PATH MAKING SURE THERE WERE NO FOOTPRINTS THERE THAT YOU WOULD STEP ON. DO YOU REMEMBER THAT?
# 328 A: MAKE SURE THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE.
# 329 Q: FOOTPRINTS WOULD BE EVIDENCE.
# 330 A: OF ANY KIND. YES.
# 331 Q: OR ANY OTHER EVIDENCE?
# 333 Q: DID YOU SEE EVERYBODY ELSE DO THAT AS THEY WENT UP THE PATH?
# 335 Q: TOOK THE FLASHLIGHT?
# 337 Q: NOW, YOU SAID THAT WHEN YOU WALKED UP THE PATH, YOU DIDN'T SEE OFFICER RISKE'S FOOTPRINTS.
# 339 Q: AND YOU DIDN'T SEE SERGEANT COON'S FOOTPRINTS. WELL, WHEN DETECTIVES PHILLIPS AND FUHRMAN WALKED UP THAT PATH, DID THEY TURN TO YOU AND SAY, "SERGEANT ROSSI, THERE ARE FOOTPRINTS HERE"?
# 340 A: NO, THEY DIDN'T.
# 341 Q: DID NOT. OKAY. THEY CONTINUED UP THE SCENE AND INSPECTED THE AREA AND THE BODIES, RIGHT?
# 343 Q: WHERE DID THEY NEXT GO OR EITHER ONE OF THEM?
# 344 A: THEY BOTH THEN CAME BACK DOWN TO THE SIDEWALK TO WHERE I WAS.
# 345 Q: NOW, AT THIS POINT, DID ANY OF YOU LOOK FOR HUMAN FOOTPRINTS AS OPPOSED TO PAW PRINTS AROUND THE AREA OF THE SIDEWALK IN THE STREET AND SO FORTH?
# 347 Q: WHERE DID YOU LOOK?
# 348 A: RIGHT AROUND THE -- AS WE WALKED ON THE SIDEWALK, WE KEPT LOOKING WITH OUR FLASHLIGHTS.
# 349 Q: AND DID YOU FURTHER LOOK IN THE SHRUBBERY WHERE YOU HAD WALKED PARALLEL TO THE SIDEWALK TO SEE IF ANYONE HAD LEFT IN THAT FASHION?
# 350 A: I DIDN'T PERSONALLY, BUT DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND FUHRMAN WERE USING THEIR FLASHLIGHT IN VARIOUS LOCATIONS IN THE IMMEDIATE AREA.
# 351 Q: WHERE DID YOU SEE THEM INSPECT WHILE YOU WERE THERE?
# 352 A: AROUND WHERE THE VICTIMS WERE LYING AND IN THE GRASSY AREA. AT ONE POINT, ONE OF THEM WALKED OVER TO THE SIDEWALK AREA THAT IS ADJACENT TO THE WALKWAY AND SHINED HIS LIGHT.
# 353 Q: OKAY. JUST YES OR NO. DID MR. FUHRMAN SAY WHETHER OR NOT HE KNEW THE FEMALE VICTIM?
# 354 A: NO, SIR, HE DIDN'T.
# 355 Q: DID HE SAY WHETHER OR NOT HE HAD EVER MET HER OR HER EX-HUSBAND BEFORE?
# 357 Q: NO DISCUSSION ALONG THOSE LINES?
# 359 Q: OKAY. WHAT MEANS OF COMMUNICATION WERE DETECTIVES PHILLIPS AND FUHRMAN USING IN YOUR PRESENCE THAT MORNING?
# 360 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. VAGUE.
# 361 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
# 362 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: DID EITHER ONE OF THEM HAVE A CELLULAR PHONE?
# 363 A: YES. DETECTIVE PHILLIPS HAD ONE.
# 364 Q: DID YOU OBSERVE HIM USING IT TO CALL OTHER PEOPLE?
# 366 Q: AND WERE YOU STANDING CLOSE ENOUGH TO LEARN WHO HE PURPORTED TO BE CALLING?
# 367 A: YES. ON ONE CALL I DID.
# 369 A: WHEN HE CALLED ROBBERY-HOMICIDE.
# 370 Q: OKAY. THAT WAS PURSUANT TO THE MESSAGE YOU GAVE HIM FROM THE CHIEF SAYING HE WANTED ROBBERY-HOMICIDE, WHICH MEANT THE DETECTIVES DOWNTOWN, IN ON THIS CASE, RIGHT?
# 372 Q: DID YOU TELL THEM WHY THE CHIEF SAID THAT HE THOUGHT THAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE?
# 373 A: NO. I JUST TOLD THEM THAT WAS WHAT THE CHIEF --
# 374 Q: THAT WAS AN ORDER?
# 376 Q: AND IT WAS NON-DISCRETIONARY?
# 378 Q: PURSUANT TO WHICH FUHRMAN MADE THE CALL?
# 380 Q: CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT WHAT TIME ACCORDING TO YOUR BEST RECOLLECTION AFTER 2:10 A.M. WHEN HE ARRIVED DETECTIVE PHILLIPS CALLED ROBBERY-HOMICIDE?
# 381 A: IT WAS AFTER WE WALKED TO THE REAR OF THE LOCATION. SO I WOULD SAY PROBABLY 15 MINUTES AFTER THEY ARRIVED.
# 382 Q: OKAY. SO THEY ARRIVED AT THE CURB, UP THE LITTLE PATH, LOOK AT THE SCENE, COME BACK OUT, SHINE THEIR LIGHTS IN THE FOLIAGE AND THEN GO AROUND DOROTHY UP THE ALLEY TO THE REAR GATE.
# 383 A: THAT'S CORRECT, YES.
# 384 Q: NOW, DID THEY THEN GO IN THE HOUSE?
# 388 Q: HOW LONG WOULD YOU SAY THEY HAD BEEN ON THE SCENE WHEN THEY WENT INTO THE HOUSE?
# 389 A: OH, PROBABLY 15, 20 MINUTES.
# 390 Q: HAD THEY BEFORE GOING INTO THE HOUSE VENTURED UP THE WALKWAY INSIDE THE REAR GATE?
# 391 A: DID THEY GO UP THE WALKWAY PRIOR TO GOING IN THE HOUSE? WAS THAT THE QUESTION?
# 394 Q: HOW LONG DID THEY SPEND GOING UP THE WALKWAY TOWARD THE CRIME SCENE FROM THE ALLEY AND THROUGH THE GATE? HOW MUCH TIME?
# 395 A: IT WAS JUST DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND I AND IT WAS ONLY PROBABLY ABOUT A MINUTE.
# 396 Q: WELL, DID YOU VENTURE AS FAR AS YOU HAD ON YOUR FIRST TRIP WITH RISKE?
# 398 Q: AND DID YOU STOP IN THE SAME PLACE?
# 400 Q: AND DID YOU POINT OUT TO DETECTIVE PHILLIPS THE VISIBLE FOOTPRINTS THAT YOU HAD NOTICED BEFORE?
# 402 Q: DID DETECTIVE PHILLIPS SAY ANYTHING TO YOU ABOUT WIPING OUT FOOTPRINTS THAT WEREN'T VISIBLE?
# 404 Q: DID NOT. YOU JUST WALKED UP THERE. HOW MANY FEET WOULD YOU SAY IT WAS FROM THE GATE TO WHERE YOU STOPPED?
# 405 A: OH, PROBABLY A HUNDRED AND -- FROM WHERE AGAIN? I AM SORRY.
# 406 Q: FROM THE REAR GATE -- YOU ENTERED THE REAR GATE I TAKE IT?
# 408 Q: YOU NOTICED BLOOD DROPS THERE, THEN WALKED IN. DID YOU NOTICE THEM THE SECOND TIME?
# 410 Q: DID YOU POINT THEM OUT TO DETECTIVE PHILLIPS?
# 411 A: ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THE BLOOD DROPS OR THE FOOTPRINTS?
# 412 Q: NO. THE BLOOD DROPS NEAR THE GATE.
# 414 Q: AND THEN YOU WALKED UP THE WALKWAY --
# 416 Q: -- THAT GOES BESIDES THE HOUSE TOWARDS THE CRIME SCENE.
# 418 Q: DO YOU KNOW TODAY WHAT THE TOTAL DISTANCE IS BETWEEN THE GATES?
# 422 Q: OKAY. WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THAT DISTANCE WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU COVERED ON THESE TWO OCCASIONS ON FOOT?
# 423 A: APPROXIMATELY 30 FEET.
# 425 A: 30, 35 FEET, YES.
# 426 Q: SO YOU DIDN'T GET UP AS FAR AS THE ENTRY DOOR OFF THE WALKWAY; IS THAT RIGHT?
# 428 Q: OKAY. WHAT WAS THE OTHER DETECTIVE DOING WHILE YOU TWO WERE WALKING UP THE WALKWAY?
# 429 A: DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?
# 431 A: HE REMAINED BEHIND BEHIND THE GARAGE.
# 434 Q: WELL, DID YOU SEE HIM LOOKING OVER THE JEEP?
# 436 Q: EVER SEE ANYONE TOUCH THE JEEP?
# 438 Q: EVER SEE ANYONE DUST THE JEEP?
# 440 Q: OKAY. DURING THIS FIRST 15-MINUTE PERIOD AND BEFORE THE CALL WAS PLACED BY PHILLIPS TO ROBBERY-HOMICIDE, DID YOU HEAR ANYONE CALL THE CORONER?
# 442 Q: DID NOT. DID YOU FELLOWS DISCUSS THE WISDOM OF DOING THAT?
# 443 A: IT WASN'T DISCUSSED WITH ME, NO.
# 444 Q: WHEN DID THEY ENTER THE HOME? BEFORE OR AFTER THE CALL DOWNTOWN?
# 445 A: I BELIEVE IT WAS BEFORE.
# 446 Q: OKAY. AND THEY WALKED IN THROUGH THE GARAGE?
# 448 Q: IS THAT HOW THEY ENTERED?
# 450 Q: YOU CAN ENTER THROUGH THE GARAGE OR THROUGH THE WALKWAY, RIGHT?
# 451 A: NOT THE WALKWAY.
# 452 Q: AREN'T THERE TWO DOORS INTO THE HOME FROM THE WALKWAY?
# 453 A: THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE IS -- WELL, WHAT WALKWAY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?
# 454 Q: THE WALKWAY I AM TALKING ABOUT RUNS GATE TO GATE ALL UP AND DOWN.
# 455 A: I DON'T REMEMBER AN ENTRANCE TO THE HOUSE THERE, NO.
# 458 Q: WHERE WAS THE ENTRANCE TO THE HOUSE THAT YOU COULD GO IN IF YOU DIDN'T WANT TO GO THROUGH THE GARAGE?
# 459 A: I SAW A FRONT DOOR THAT WAS ON THE BUNDY SIDE OF THE HOUSE.
# 460 Q: IS THERE A WALKWAY PARALLEL TO BUNDY?
# 461 A: PARALLEL TO BUNDY?
# 463 A: YEAH. THERE'S A WALKWAY FROM THE SIDEWALK UP.
# 464 Q: NO. I UNDERSTAND THAT. EXCLUDE IF YOU WILL THE WALKWAY THAT RUNS GATE TO GATE.
# 466 Q: UP SOME STEPS, DOWN SOME STEPS AND SO FORTH.
# 470 Q: ARE THERE ANY OTHER WALKWAYS THAT GIVE ACCESS TO THE HOME?
# 472 Q: OKAY. SO, THEREFORE, ANY DOORS AT GROUND LEVEL THAT ENTERED THE HOME HAVE TO BE ADJACENT TO THAT WALKWAY, DON'T THEY?
# 473 A: TO THE WALKWAY IN THE FRONT. NOW, I THOUGHT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE WALKWAY ON THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE.
# 474 Q: THE WALKWAY ON THE FRONT STARTING AT THE GATE RUNS BESIDE THE HOUSE ALL THE WAY TO THE WALKWAY IN THE BACK, DOESN'T IT, SERGEANT?
# 475 A: IT ALSO LEADS OFF TO THE FRONT DOOR.
# 476 Q: AND YOU SAY THAT'S NOT ALL ONE WALKWAY.
# 477 A: WELL, IT LEADS OFF -- YOU HAVE TO TURN INTO THE DOOR TO GET TO IT.
# 478 Q: LET'S MOVE ON. THEY WENT IN THROUGH THE GARAGE IN ANY EVENT?
# 480 Q: YOU NEVER ENTERED THE HOUSE AND YOU MAY NOT EVEN KNOW WHERE THE DOORS ARE; IS THAT FAIR?
# 481 A: I KNOW WHERE THE FRONT DOOR IS BECAUSE I SAW IT FROM THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE.
# 482 Q: DO YOU KNOW IF THERE ARE ANY OTHER DOORS?
# 484 Q: DID THEY BOTH ENTER THROUGH THE GARAGE AND LEAVE THROUGH THE GARAGE?
# 486 Q: HOW LONG WERE THEY IN THE HOUSE?
# 487 A: NOT LONG. PROBABLY FIVE TO 10 MINUTES.
# 488 Q: HAD YOU DISCUSSED WITH THE DETECTIVES PRIOR TO THEIR GOING INTO THE HOUSE THE WISDOM OF TRYING TO LOCATE MR. SIMPSON TO WARN HIM?
# 489 A: NO, I DIDN'T DISCUSS THAT WITH THE DETECTIVES.
# 490 Q: AND THEY DIDN'T DISCUSS IT IN YOUR PRESENCE I TAKE IT?
# 492 Q: IT WAS NOT A TOPIC OF URGENCY AS YOU NOW RECALL IT?
# 493 A: WE DIDN'T DISCUSS IT.
# 494 Q: OKAY. WHEN THEY LEFT THE HOUSE, DID THEY TELL YOU THAT THEY HAD FOUND A LISTING OF NUMBERS IN THE KITCHEN?
# 496 Q: DID THEY TELL YOU THAT THE TELEPHONES HAD SPEED DIALS WITH DAD?
# 497 A: NO, THEY DID NOT.
# 498 Q: DID NOT. ALL RIGHT. CAN YOU RECALL ANYTHING THEY TOLD YOU OF NOTE ABOUT WHAT THEY FOUND INSIDE THE HOUSE AS DETECTIVES?
# 499 A: NO, THEY DIDN'T TELL ME ANYTHING ABOUT THE HOUSE.
# 500 Q: YOU KNEW THAT OFFICER RISKE HAD WALKED THROUGH THE HOUSE, RIGHT?
# 501 A: BEFORE I GOT THERE YOU MEAN?
# 504 Q: DID YOU EVER ISSUE ANY ORDERS TO PROTECT FOOTPRINTS IN THE CARPETING?
# 506 Q: DO YOU KNOW WHAT THOSE ARE?
# 507 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THESE QUESTIONS GO TO --
# 508 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 509 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: DO YOU KNOW WHAT THEY ARE, SIR?
# 510 A: DO I KNOW WHAT FOOTPRINTS IN A CARPETING --
# 511 Q: DO YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT A CARPET CAN YIELD FOOTPRINTS UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS?
# 513 Q: DO YOU KNOW THEY CAN'T BE SEEN WITH A NAKED EYE GENERALLY?
# 514 A: NO. I'VE SEEN CARPET -- FOOTPRINTS IN CARPET WITH MY NAKED EYE.
# 515 Q: AND DO YOU KNOW THERE ARE SOME THAT CAN'T BE SEEN WITH A NAKED EYE?
# 516 A: NO. I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH THAT.
# 517 Q: YOU'VE NEVER HEARD OF THAT?
# 519 Q: OKAY. FINE. IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT NO STEPS WERE TAKEN TO PROTECT THE CARPETING IN CASE THE FOOTPRINTS OF SOMEBODY RELEVANT MIGHT ALREADY BE THERE?
# 520 A: I DON'T KNOW WHAT STEPS WERE TAKEN INSIDE THE HOUSE, SIR.
# 521 Q: I'M SORRY. LET ME REPHRASE IT. IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT YOU KNOW OF NO STEPS THAT WERE TAKEN BY YOU OR ANYONE ELSE TO PROTECT THE CARPETING IN THE HOUSE?
# 522 A: I DON'T KNOW WHAT STEPS WERE TAKEN IN THE HOUSE.
# 523 Q: OKAY. WERE ANY STEPS TAKEN TO PROTECT ITEMS LIKE THE TELEPHONES FROM FINGERPRINTS?
# 525 Q: WHEN THE DETECTIVES CAME BACK OUT THROUGH THE GARAGE, WERE YOU STANDING --
# 526 THE COURT: EXCUSE ME, MR. BAILEY.
# 528 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL AND THE DEFENDANT.) # 529 THE COURT: THANK YOU, MR. BAILEY.
# 530 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: WHAT DID YOU DO WHILE THEY WERE INSIDE THE HOUSE, SERGEANT?
# 531 A: I MADE MYSELF AVAILABLE IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE ON BUNDY AT DOROTHY.
# 532 Q: AND I TAKE IT YOU NEVER SAW THEM COME OUT BACK OUT THROUGH THE GARAGE?
# 533 A: EXCUSE ME. WHEN YOU -- YOU SAID WHEN THEY WERE IN THE HOUSE? I BEG YOUR PARDON. I JUST STAYED BEHIND THE GARAGE IN THE AREA BACK THERE.
# 534 Q: WAS THERE ANY REASON THAT YOU DIDN'T ACCOMPANY THEM INTO THE HOUSE?
# 535 A: I DIDN'T SEE ANY NEED OR I DIDN'T SEE IT NECESSARY FOR ME TO GO IN THE HOUSE.
# 536 Q: IS THAT BECAUSE FROM THE TIME OF THEIR ARRIVAL ON, THE DETECTING WAS LEFT TOTALLY UP TO THEM?
# 538 Q: OKAY. AFTER THEY CAME OUT OF THE HOUSE, WHAT DID THEY NEXT DO?
# 539 A: I BELIEVE THAT'S WHEN DETECTIVE PHILLIPS OR WHEN I DISCUSSED WITH DETECTIVE PHILLIPS ABOUT CALLING ROBBERY-HOMICIDE PER THE ORDER OF DEPUTY CHIEF FRANKLIN.
# 540 Q: ALL RIGHT. THIS WAS 15 MINUTES AFTER THEIR ARRIVAL?
# 541 A: 15, 20 MINUTES I WOULD SAY, YEAH.
# 542 Q: OKAY. NOW, IS PROMPTNESS TO THE CRIME SCENE IMPORTANT IN HOMICIDE CASES?
# 543 A: I WOULD THINK SO.
# 544 Q: YOUR EXPERIENCE HAS TAUGHT YOU THAT IT IS, RIGHT?
# 546 Q: OKAY. WAS THERE ANY REASON WHY YOU WAITED 15 OR 20 MINUTES TO PASS ALONG THE CHIEF'S ORDER?
# 547 A: TO BE PERFECTLY HONEST, I DIDN'T THINK OF IT UNTIL THEN.
KEY QUOTE # 548 Q: THE CHIEF GAVE YOU AN ORDER AT 1:15 A.M. AND YOU FORGOT IT AT 2:10?
KEY QUOTE # 549 A: I DIDN'T FORGET IT. I JUST DIDN'T THINK OF IT UNTIL I TOLD HIM.
# 550 Q: IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT IT SLIPPED YOUR MEMORY FOR A BIT?
# 551 A: THERE WAS A LOT OF THINGS GOING ON. YES, COULD HAVE.
# 552 Q: CAN YOU REMEMBER WHAT IT IS THAT JOGGED IT BACK?
# 553 A: NO. I JUST REMEMBERED AND I TOLD HIM.
# 554 Q: LIKE THAT (SNAPPED FINGERS)?
# 556 Q: AND DID DETECTIVE PHILLIPS CALL RATHER PROMPTLY AFTER YOU RELAYED THE DIRECTION YOU HAD BEEN GIVEN?
# 558 Q: NOW, ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE DETECTIVES IN THE DOWNTOWN ROBBERY-HOMICIDE UNIT?
# 560 Q: DID YOU KNOW ANY OF THEM BEFORE THIS CASE?
# 562 Q: ARE THEY GENERALLY THE MOST SENIOR IN EXPERIENCE TO THE LAPD?
# 563 A: I WOULD SAY GENERALLY.
# 564 Q: ALL RIGHT. AND DID THE CHIEF TELL YOU THAT'S WHY HE WANTED THEM CALLED IN THIS CASE?
# 565 A: THE CHIEF INDICATED TO ME THEY HAD MORE RESOURCES.
# 566 Q: OKAY. DID THE CHIEF INDICATE THAT HE ALSO WANTED THEM THERE BECAUSE HE ANTICIPATED THE DEGREE OF PRESS ATTENTION THAT WOULD ACCOMPANY THIS CASE?
# 567 A: I DON'T REMEMBER IF HE INDICATED THAT AT ALL.
# 568 Q: OKAY. NOW, A DETECTIVE ROBERTS ARRIVED APPARENTLY AT BUNDY SHORTLY AFTER DETECTIVES FUHRMAN AND PHILLIPS. DO YOU RECALL THAT?
# 570 Q: WHO IS DETECTIVE ROBERTS? CAN YOU TELL US?
# 571 A: THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME I MET DETECTIVE ROBERTS. I BELIEVE HE'S A WEST L.A. DETECTIVE.
# 572 Q: HIS HEADQUARTERS IS IN YOUR STATION?
# 573 A: AS FAR AS I KNOW.
# 574 Q: DO YOU KNOW HOW LONG HE HAD BEEN ATTACHED THERE?
# 575 A: NO, SIR, I DON'T.
# 576 Q: DO YOU KNOW WHAT HIS GRADE WAS?
# 578 Q: DO YOU KNOW WHY HE WAS SUMMONED TO BUNDY ALONG WITH THE TWO THAT YOU HAD BROUGHT THERE?
# 579 A: NO, I DIDN'T KNOW.
# 580 Q: AT ABOUT THE TIME DETECTIVE ROBERTS ARRIVED, IT APPEARS THAT LIEUTENANT SPANGLER ARRIVED. IS THAT SQUARE WITH YOUR RECOLLECTION?
# 581 A: I THINK THEY'RE PRETTY CLOSE, YEAH.
# 582 Q: WELL, ABOUT 20 MINUTES AFTER DETECTIVES FUHRMAN AND PHILLIPS ARRIVED OR ABOUT 2:30?
# 583 A: THAT SOUNDS REASONABLE, YES.
# 584 Q: OKAY. AND LIEUTENANT SPANGLER ORDINARILY WOULD HAVE BEEN THE SENIOR PERSON THERE, CORRECT?
# 586 Q: NOW, CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT THE RELATIVE AUTHORITY WAS SINCE PHILLIPS AT ABOUT 2:30 WAS CALLING DOWNTOWN FOR THOSE DETECTIVES AND THE CHIEF DETECTIVE FROM WEST L.A. WAS ARRIVING ON THE SCENE? WHAT'S THE PECKING ORDER AT THIS POINT?
# 587 A: I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION.
# 588 Q: ALL RIGHT. LET ME REPHRASE. WE HAVE PHILLIPS AND FUHRMAN IN CHARGE OF THE DETECTIVES THERE FIRST, RIGHT?
# 590 Q: WE HAVE THEM TOLD BY YOU THAT THE CHIEF WANTS THEM NOT TO BE IN CHARGE, BUT TO BRING IN THE DETECTIVES FROM DOWNTOWN.
# 592 Q: AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, FOLLOWING THAT DIRECTION, CALLS DOWNTOWN AND RELAYS THAT REQUEST, RIGHT?
# 594 Q: THE CHIEF WOULD HAVE NO POWER FROM WEST L.A. TO ORDER THEM OUT THERE IF THEY DIDN'T WANT TO COME, WOULD HE?
# 595 A: THE CHIEF WOULD -- I DON'T KNOW IF I UNDERSTAND THAT, SIR.
# 596 Q: CHIEF FRANKLIN COULDN'T ORDER DOWNTOWN DETECTIVES TO COME TO BRENTWOOD, COULD HE?
# 597 A: WELL, CERTAINLY HE COULD.
# 598 Q: HE COULD? THE PERSON YOU TALKED WITH?
# 599 A: CHIEF FRANKLIN COULD HAVE ORDERED THEM, SURE.
# 600 Q: ALL RIGHT. DOES HE HAVE AUTHORITY OVER ALL, ALL THE DETECTIVES IN THE FORCE?
# 601 A: WELL, HE'S -- YES, HE DOES. HE'S OF MUCH HIGHER RANK. SO YEAH.
# 602 Q: OKAY. SO THIS WASN'T OPTIONAL AS TO THEM EITHER, THE DETECTIVES DOWNTOWN THAT WERE RECEIVING THE CALL?
# 604 Q: THEY WERE DIRECTED TO COME, TRUE?
# 606 Q: ALL RIGHT. DO YOU KNOW WHAT ROBERTS' RANK IS?
# 607 A: NO, SIR, I DON'T.
# 608 Q: DID YOU SEE HIM DO ANYTHING WHEN HE ARRIVED?
# 610 Q: DID YOU SEE HIM REMAIN THERE AS LONG AS YOU WERE THERE?
# 611 A: I BELIEVE HE DID.
# 612 Q: DID YOU SEE HIM TALKING WITH DETECTIVES FUHRMAN AND PHILLIPS AT ANY TIME?
# 614 Q: NOW, DID YOU SPEND MOST OF THE TIME BETWEEN 2:10 AND ABOUT 4:20 OR -30 IN THE COMPANY OF DETECTIVES FUHRMAN AND PHILLIPS?
# 615 A: NO. I WAS IN THE STREET TALKING WITH MY CAPTAIN AFTER I RETURNED TO THE FRONT OF THE CONDO.
# 616 Q: OKAY. THIS WAS CAPTAIN DIAL?
# 618 Q: AND WHEN DID SHE ARRIVE?
# 619 A: I DON'T REMEMBER THE EXACT TIME. I WOULD HAVE TO LOOK ON THE LOG.
# 620 Q: ALL RIGHT. YOU DON'T RECALL AT THE MOMENT?
# 622 Q: WOULD ABOUT 10 MINUTES AFTER DETECTIVE ROBERTS AND LIEUTENANT SPANGLER SEEM ABOUT RIGHT?
# 623 A: I BELIEVE SHE GOT THERE A LITTLE BIT AFTER LIEUTENANT SPANGLER, YES.
# 624 Q: OKAY. SO IF SHE GOT THERE AT 2:40, WOULD THAT SEEM TO BE SQUARE WITH YOUR RECOLLECTION?
# 626 Q: ALL RIGHT. SHE IS YOUR DIRECT SUPERIOR WHEREAS THE DETECTIVES ARE NOT. IS THAT A FAIR STATEMENT?
# 628 Q: AND IF YOU HAD ANY DIRECTION TO GET, IT WOULD BE FROM CAPTAIN DIAL AND NOT FROM THE DETECTIVES ON MATTERS UNRELATED TO THE CRIME SCENE ITSELF; IS THAT FAIR?
# 629 A: UNRELATED TO THE CRIME SCENE.
# 632 Q: AS FAR AS BRINGING OFFICERS TO THE SCENE, SETTING UP PATROLS, ROADBLOCKS, ALL POINT BULLETINS, THINGS LIKE THAT, WOULD THAT BE WITHIN HER PURVIEW TO ORDER?
# 634 Q: HOW LONG DID YOU SPEND TALKING WITH LIEUTENANT -- I AM SORRY -- WITH CAPTAIN DIAL?
# 635 A: I WAS PROBABLY TALKING WITH CAPTAIN DIAL FOR ABOUT HALF AN HOUR.
# 636 Q: SINCE YOU HAD ARRIVED AT ABOUT 1:25, 1:30 -- AND BY THE WAY, WEST L.A. STATION AT -- IS IT AT 1363 BUTLER AV?
# 638 Q: 1663 BUTLER AV IS LESS THAN TWO MILES FROM 875 SOUTH BUNDY, ISN'T IT?
# 639 A: I THINK IT'S A LITTLE FARTHER THAN THAT. I THINK IT'S CLOSER ABOUT FIVE MILES.
# 640 Q: ISN'T ABOUT A MILE 4,000 FEET?
# 641 A: IT'S 5,280 FEET.
# 642 Q: NO. ISN'T IT ABOUT A MILE AND 4,000 FEET, IF YOU KNOW?
# 643 A: SAY AGAIN? BEAR WITH ME, SIR. I'VE BEEN WORKING SINCE 10:00 O'CLOCK LAST NIGHT. WHAT WAS THE QUESTION?
# 644 Q: I UNDERSTAND. SO HAVE I WAITING FOR YOU. SO WE'RE EVEN. NOW, ISN'T THE DISTANCE LESS THAN 10,000 FEET FROM BUTLER TO BUNDY?
# 646 Q: OKAY. DIDN'T YOU GET THERE WITHIN A FEW MINUTES WHEN YOU LEFT AT 1:25 AFTER TALKING WITH CAPTAIN DIAL ON THE PHONE?
# 647 A: IT TOOK ABOUT SEVEN MINUTES AS I RECALL.
# 648 Q: SEVEN MINUTES. OKAY. IF YOU WENT FIVE MILES IN SEVEN MINUTES, YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN PULLED OVER, WOULDN'T YOU?
# 649 A: PROBABLY NOT. I'M IN A BLACK AND WHITE.
KEY QUOTE # 650 Q: OKAY. YOU MEAN NOBODY ARRESTS YOU FOR SPEEDING?
# 652 Q: ALL RIGHT. DID YOU HAVE A SIREN ON?
# 654 Q: WHEN WAS THE FIRST TIME AFTER YOU ARRIVED AT THE SCENE THAT YOU SAW SOMEBODY TAKING PHOTOGRAPHS?
# 655 A: I DON'T RECALL ANYBODY TAKING PHOTOGRAPHS WHILE I WAS THERE.
# 656 Q: DO YOU KNOW A PHOTOGRAPHER NAMED ROKHAR, R-O-K-H-A-R?
# 658 Q: CAN YOU TELL US WHETHER OR NOT PHOTOGRAPHER ROKHAR ARRIVED AT THE SCENE AT 3:25?
# 660 Q: IF THE CRIME LOG SAYS THAT HE DID, IS IT LIKELY THAT HE DID, THIS BEING AN OFFICIAL RECORD?
# 662 Q: OKAY. SO YOU DID NOT LEAVE UNTIL, AS I UNDERSTAND THIS LOG, 4:10.
# 666 Q: SO IF ROKHAR WAS THERE FIRING FLASHBULBS FOR HALF AN HOUR BEFORE YOU LEFT, YOU NEVER NOTICED IT; IS THAT RIGHT?
# 667 A: I DID NOT NOTICE IT, THAT'S CORRECT.
# 668 Q: OKAY. IT WAS STILL PRETTY DARK AT THAT HOUR, WASN'T IT?
# 670 Q: DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT TIME SUNRISE WAS ON JUNE 13, 1994?
# 672 Q: WHAT WAS THE TEMPERATURE THAT NIGHT? DO YOU RECALL THAT?
# 673 A: I REMEMBER IT AS BEING RELATIVELY WARM.
# 677 A: THAT'S REASONABLE, YES.
# 678 Q: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. I BELIEVE THAT YOU SAID ONE OF THE DOWNTOWN DETECTIVES, THAT BEING DETECTIVE PHIL VANNATTER, ARRIVED JUST AS YOU WERE DEPARTING BUNDY.
# 679 A: I DON'T BELIEVE I SAID THAT. I REMEMBER HIM ARRIVING, BUT I DID STAY FOR SOME TIME AFTER HE SHOWED UP.
# 680 Q: IF THE CRIME LOG HAS HIM IN AT 4:05 AND YOU OUT AT 4:10, DOES THAT SQUARE WITH YOUR RECOLLECTION, FIVE MINUTES OF TALK?
# 681 A: SEEMS LIKE HE WAS THERE LONGER, BUT IF THAT'S WHAT IT SAYS, THAT'S PROBABLY CORRECT.
# 682 Q: WELL, THE CRIME LOG IS NOT INFALLIBLE, IS IT?
# 683 A: IT'S ONLY AS ACCURATE AS THE PERSON DOING IT.
# 684 Q: OKAY. BUT YOU UNDERSTAND IN THIS CASE WAS AN OFFICER NAMED CUMMINGS?
# 686 Q: NOW, DID YOU HAVE SOME CONVERSATION WITH DETECTIVE VANNATTER?
# 687 A: UH, NO, I DIDN'T.
# 688 Q: DID YOU OBSERVE HIM TALKING WITH ANYONE?
# 689 A: YEAH. I SAW HIM TALKING WITH DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.
# 690 Q: DID YOU OBSERVE HIM TO GO UPON THE CRIME SCENE AS YOU HAD DONE?
# 692 Q: HOW CLOSE TO THE CRIME SCENE DID YOU SEE HIM GO?
# 694 Q: WHERE WAS THE CONVERSATION TAKING PLACE BETWEEN DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND VANNATTER?
# 695 A: ON BUNDY AT THE INTERSECTION OF BUNDY AND DOROTHY.
# 696 Q: DOWN AT THE CORNER WE'VE LOOKED AT IN THE PHOTOGRAPHS?
# 698 Q: IS THAT THE CLOSEST YOU SAW DETECTIVE VANNATTER GET TO THE CRIME SCENE?
# 700 Q: UP UNTIL THE ARRIVAL OF DETECTIVE VANNATTER AT 4:05 A.M., TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, HAD ANY EFFORT WHATSOEVER BEEN MADE TO CONTACT MR. O.J. SIMPSON?
KEY QUOTE # 701 A: NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE.
# 702 Q: UP UNTIL THE ARRIVAL OF DETECTIVE VANNATTER AT 4:05 A.M., TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, HAD ANY EFFORT BEEN MADE TO CALL A CORONER TO THE SCENE?
KEY QUOTE # 703 A: NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE.
# 704 Q: HOW ABOUT CRIMINALISTS AND TECHNICIANS WHO TAKE FOOTPRINTS, FINGERPRINTS, ET CETERA?
# 705 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION TO THE LAST THREE QUESTIONS INCLUDING THIS ONE, ALL BEYOND THE SCOPE OF THIS WITNESS' KNOWLEDGE. HE'S ALREADY TESTIFIED THAT'S NOT HIS JOB.
# 706 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 707 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: DO YOU KNOW IF ANY OF THOSE PEOPLE HAD BEEN CALLED BEFORE YOU DEPARTED?
# 708 A: NO, SIR, I DON'T KNOW.
# 709 Q: AND WHEN DETECTIVE VANNATTER ARRIVED, DID YOU SEE HIM TAKE ANY STEPS IN THAT DIRECTION?
# 710 A: NO, I DON'T RECALL.
# 711 Q: ALL RIGHT. MY UNDERSTANDING OF YOUR TESTIMONY ON DIRECT IS THAT YOU WENT BACK TO YOUR STATION, NUMBER ONE, BECAUSE THERE WAS NO FURTHER NEED FOR YOUR SERVICES AND, NUMBER TWO, BECAUSE YOU HAD OTHER THINGS TO WORRY ABOUT AS WATCH COMMANDER.
# 715 Q: BUT YOU WERE STILL READY, WILLING, ABLE AND AVAILABLE TO ASSIST IN THIS CASE IF CALLED UPON TO DO SO?
# 717 Q: HAD YOU BEEN GIVEN ANY SPECIFIC INSTRUCTIONS IN THAT REGARD BY CAPTAIN DIAL?
# 719 Q: OKAY. DID SHE LEAVE THE SCENE PRIOR TO THE TIME THAT YOU DID, IF YOU KNOW?
# 720 A: NO. I LEFT BEFORE HER.
# 723 Q: OKAY. DO YOU KNOW OF ANY REASON THAT AS TO BOTH LIEUTENANT SPANGLER AND CAPTAIN DIAL, THEIR TIME OF DEPARTURE ACCORDING TO THE CRIME LOG IS UNKNOWN?
# 724 A: PLEASE REPEAT THE QUESTION.
# 725 Q: YES. DO YOU KNOW OF ANY REASON THAT THE TIME OF DEPARTURE OF THOSE TWO OFFICERS, THE LIEUTENANT AND THE CAPTAIN, IS UNKNOWN ACCORDING TO THE CRIME LOG?
# 726 A: NO, I DON'T KNOW.
# 727 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. OBJECTION. ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE. IT'S NOT NECESSARILY UNKNOWN.
# 728 THE COURT: OVERRULED. ACCORDING TO THE CRIME LOG. OVERRULED.
# 729 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: DID YOU PERSONALLY SEE ANYBODY LEAVE BUNDY WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT THEY WERE GOING TO ROCKINGHAM?
# 731 Q: PRIOR TO THE TIME THAT YOU LEFT AND WENT BACK TO THE STATION, HAD ANYBODY ASKED YOU TO TRY TO ASSIST THEM IN FINDING OUT WHERE MR. SIMPSON RESIDED?
# 733 Q: WHAT DID YOU DO WHEN YOU GOT BACK TO THE STATION?
# 734 A: STARTED TO DO SOME PAPERWORK.
# 735 Q: RELATED TO THIS CASE?
# 739 Q: DID YOU WRITE ANY REPORTS IN THIS CASE?
# 740 A: I WROTE A WATCH COMMANDER'S LOG.
# 741 Q: DID YOU WRITE ANY NOTES AT THE SCENE?
# 743 Q: DID YOU SEE ANY DETECTIVES WRITING NOTES AT THE SCENE?
# 746 A: DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.
# 747 Q: WHAT ABOUT THE OTHERS; ROBERTS, FUHRMAN, VANNATTER?
# 749 Q: IS IT TRUE THAT DETECTIVE LANGE HAD NOT ARRIVED PRIOR TO THE TIME YOU DEPARTED?
# 750 A: THE NAME AGAIN, SIR?
# 751 Q: DEPARTMENT TOM LANGE FROM DOWNTOWN?
# 752 A: THAT'S CORRECT. HE HAD NOT ARRIVED.
# 753 Q: YOU DID NOT SEE HIM AT ANY TIME THAT NIGHT?
# 755 Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, WHAT TIME DID YOU GET BACK TO THE STATION?
# 756 A: IT WAS RIGHT AROUND 5:00 O'CLOCK.
# 757 Q: AND YOU HAD BEEN THERE ABOUT 13 MINUTES WHEN SOMEBODY ASKED YOU TO CALL WESTEC; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 759 Q: AND YOU MADE THAT CALL ON A PHONE THAT HAS A TAPE ATTACHED TO IT AT 5:13 A.M., TRUE?
# 760 A: I BELIEVE IT WAS NOT -- MY PHONE WASN'T TAPED, NO.
# 761 Q: NO. I SAID ON A PHONE THAT HAD A TAPE, IN THIS CASE, BELONGING TO WESTEC.
# 763 Q: OKAY. YOU HAVE SINCE SEEN A TRANSCRIPT OF YOUR CONVERSATION.
# 764 A: YES, SIR. THAT'S CORRECT.
# 765 Q: RIGHT? NOW, MY RECOLLECTION IS THAT YOUR FIRST INQUIRY WHEN YOU GOT HOLD OF WESTEC WAS, IS MR. SIMPSON IN TOWN.
# 767 Q: WESTEC SAID THEY THOUGHT HE WAS?
# 768 A: THE FIRST -- THAT'S NOT WHAT I -- SIR, IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE FIRST CONTACT I HAD --
# 769 Q: WELL, I'M TRYING TO AVOID GOING THROUGH EVERY LITTLE STEP THAT YOU WENT THROUGH ON DIRECT TO GET TO THE MEAT OF IT. FIRST OF ALL, DID YOU EVER INQUIRE OF WESTEC AS TO WHETHER THEY AS A MATTER OF COMMON PRACTICE HAD ANY KNOWLEDGE OF WHETHER MR. SIMPSON WAS IN TOWN?
# 771 Q: AND WHAT DID THEY TELL YOU?
# 772 A: THEY SAID THEY DIDN'T KNOW IF HE WAS IN TOWN.
# 773 Q: NO, NO. PLEASE. THE QUESTION PERHAPS, AS HIS HONOR WOULD SAY, WAS INARTFULLY PHRASED. BEFORE RELYING ON WESTEC'S RESPONSE THAT THEY DIDN'T KNOW IF HE WAS IN TOWN, DID YOU TRY TO ESTABLISH WHETHER OR NOT THEY SHOULD HAVE KNOWN IF HE WAS IN TOWN?
# 775 Q: NO. SO YOU DIDN'T KNOW AT THAT POINT WHETHER THEIR KNOWLEDGE OF HIS WHEREABOUTS WAS EVEN RELEVANT OR NOT?
# 776 MS. CLARK: WELL, OBJECTION. THAT CALLS FOR SPECULATION.
# 777 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
# 778 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: DID YOU HAVE ANY REASON TO BELIEVE THAT WESTEC, THE SECURITY OUTFIT WHOSE PLAQUE WAS ON THE GROUNDS AT THE -- MR. SIMPSON'S HOME --
# 780 Q: -- HAD ANY PRACTICE OF KEEPING TRACK OF IT?
# 781 A: NO, I DIDN'T KNOW.
# 782 Q: OKAY. WHEN YOU TALKED TO NO. 48 OR WHOEVER IT WAS WHO SAID THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHETHER HE WAS IN TOWN OR NOT, DID YOU THEN INQUIRE AS TO WHETHER THEY HAD ANY MEANS OF FINDING OUT?
# 784 Q: OKAY. AND WERE THEY ABLE TO REFER YOU TO ANY LOGS THAT THEY KEPT OR OTHER ROUTINE PIECES OF PAPERWORK WITHIN THEIR OFFICE THAT WOULD INDICATE WHETHER THEIR CLIENTS WERE AT HOME OR ELSEWHERE?
# 785 A: NO, THEY DIDN'T.
# 786 Q: THEY INDEED INDICATED THAT WHAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO DO IS THE SAME THING THAT YOU WOULD HAVE TO DO, AND THAT IS CALL ON THE TELEPHONE OR PAY A VISIT, RIGHT?
# 787 A: THE OPERATOR 48 SAID HE HAD SOME EXTRA NUMBERS THAT HE COULDN'T GIVE ME, BUT HE WOULD CHECK THEM FOR ME.
# 788 Q: OKAY. WELL, YOU I BELIEVE AT THIS POINT TOLD HIM YOU HAD AN EMERGENCY ON YOUR HANDS, DIDN'T YOU?
# 789 A: I TOLD HIM THE DETECTIVES WERE REQUESTING -- I DIDN'T -- I NEVER DID TELL HIM IT WAS AN EMERGENCY.
# 791 A: AT ONE POINT, I DID, BUT IT WAS LATER ON IN THE CONVERSATION.
# 792 Q: WHY DID YOU AFTER 5:00 O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING, HAVING NOT LIFTED A FINGER TO NOTIFY MR. SIMPSON FOR OVER FOUR HOURS, SUDDENLY DECLARE AN EMERGENCY?
# 793 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. THIS IS ARGUMENTATIVE, HARASSING THIS WITNESS. HE CAN JUST ASK QUESTIONS, YOUR HONOR.
# 794 THE COURT: OVERRULED. YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION.
# 795 SGT. DAVID ROSSI: PLEASE REPEAT IT.
# 796 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: WHY DID YOU DECLARE AN EMERGENCY FIVE HOURS AFTER IT APPARENTLY AROSE?
# 797 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. THAT ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE. WHEN DETECTIVE VANNATTER --
# 798 THE COURT: OVERRULED. HE'S ALREADY TESTIFIED HE DID USE THE WORD "EMERGENCY" LATER IN THE CONVERSATION.
# 799 SGT. DAVID ROSSI: I DIDN'T FEEL I WAS DECLARING AN EMERGENCY. THEY ASKED ME IF IT WAS AN EMERGENCY AND I SAID YES, IT IS.
# 800 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: WHY DID YOU USE THE WORD?
# 801 A: I JUST -- I DIDN'T USE THE WORD. THEY DID. THEY SAID, IS IT AN EMERGENCY, AND I SAID YES, IT IS.
# 802 Q: WELL, THAT ADOPTED THE WORD THEY USED IN THEIR QUESTION, RIGHT?
# 803 A: I THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT.
# 804 Q: YOU INTENDED TO CONVEY TO THEM YOU HAD AN EMERGENCY ON YOUR HANDS?
# 806 Q: THEY WERE RELYING ON YOUR JUDGMENT, NOT THERE'S, IN THE USE OF THAT WORD, RIGHT?
# 808 Q: ALL RIGHT. AND THE REASON YOU USED THE WORD WAS TO GET THEM TO CIRCUMVENT THEIR OWN RULES IN GIVING YOU SOME NUMBERS, TRUE?
# 810 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. THAT CALLS FOR SPECULATION.
# 811 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 812 MS. CLARK: HOW DOES HE KNOW?
# 813 THE COURT: THE QUESTION AND ANSWER WILL STAND. HE SAID NO.
# 814 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: DID YOU AFTER BEING TOLD THAT 48 OR WHOMEVER YOU WERE SPEAKING WITH ON THE PHONE DIDN'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO GIVE YOU THE NUMBERS, ASKED THAT YOU BE GIVEN THE NUMBERS ANYWAY?
# 818 Q: DID YOU ASK THAT A SUPERVISOR BE CALLED SO THAT THE NUMBERS COULD BE GIVEN TO YOU IN WESTEC?
# 819 A: I ASKED THAT A SUPERVISOR RESPOND TO THE LOCATION ON ROCKINGHAM.
# 820 Q: OKAY. DID YOU GET A PHONE NUMBER AT SOME POINT ONCE THEY FOUND THEIR CLIENT IN THEIR RECORDS?
# 824 Q: YOU HAVE TOLD US THEN THAT AT AROUND 5:30, 5:40, IT WAS DETERMINED BY PEOPLE AT THE SCENE THAT A FORCIBLE ENTRY MIGHT BE NECESSARY?
# 826 Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, WHAT REASON WERE YOU GIVEN THAT A FORCIBLE ENTRY AT THE ROCKINGHAM RESIDENCE OF O.J. SIMPSON MIGHT BE NECESSARY AT 5:30 ON JUNE 13TH?
# 827 A: DETECTIVE PHILLIPS TOLD ME ON THE TELEPHONE THAT THEY HAD FOUND SOME EVIDENCE AT THE ROCKINGHAM LOCATION THAT MAY INDICATE THAT THERE COULD BE ANOTHER CRIME SCENE OR A VICTIM INSIDE THAT LOCATION.
# 828 Q: AND DID HE TELL YOU WHAT IT WAS?
# 830 Q: OKAY. AND HE SAID IN ESSENCE, THEY MIGHT HAVE TO BREAK DOWN THE DOOR?
# 831 A: IF THEY COULDN'T GET A KEY, THAT'S CORRECT.
# 832 Q: OKAY. NOW, DID THEY TELL YOU WHAT EFFORTS THEY HAD MADE TO ATTRACT THE ATTENTION OF ANYONE WHO MIGHT BE RESIDENT WITHIN THE PREMISES?
# 833 A: NO, THEY DIDN'T.
# 834 Q: LIKE TURNING ON A SIREN?
# 836 Q: HAD ANYBODY TRIED THAT TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE?
# 837 A: NOT THAT I KNOW OF.
# 838 Q: THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHETHER ANYBODY WAS HOME OR NOT AT HOME, DID THEY?
# 839 A: I DON'T KNOW IF THEY DID OR NOT, SIR.
# 840 Q: WHO DID YOU UNDERSTAND -- BASED ON WHAT YOU WERE BEING TOLD BY PHILLIPS, WHO DID YOU UNDERSTAND WAS PRESENT AT THAT TIME WHEN THIS MODE WAS BEING CONTEMPLATED?
# 841 A: HE NEVER TOLD ME, I NEVER ASKED.
# 842 Q: WELL, DID HE INDICATE THAT HE NEEDED MORE HELP FROM ANY OF YOUR PEOPLE?
# 844 Q: DID HE INDICATE WHETHER IT WAS HIMSELF OR SOMEONE ELSE WHO WOULD COME UPON THIS EVIDENCE THAT NECESSITATED A FORCE ENTRY?
# 845 A: NO, HE DIDN'T TELL ME THAT.
# 846 Q: YOU WANTED A WESTEC PERSON IN THE EVENT FORCED ENTRY WAS NECESSARY TO BE PRESENT?
# 847 A: TO BE PRESENT, YES, SIR.
# 848 Q: OKAY. AND WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE IN THAT?
# 849 A: TO WITNESS IF THEY HAD A FORCED ENTRY.
# 851 A: THE FORCED ENTRY.
# 852 Q: AND WHAT COULD THE WESTEC PERSON IN YOUR JUDGMENT CONTRIBUTE TO THE MATTER BY HIM BEING PRESENT WHILE YOU BROKE DOWN THE DOOR?
# 853 A: THE FACT THAT THEY HAD THE SECURITY CONTRACT, I THINK THAT'S REASONABLE.
# 854 Q: WELL, WAS THERE ANY THOUGHT ON YOUR PART THAT THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO FIND A WAY IN WITHOUT A KEY AND WITHOUT BREAKING DOWN THE DOOR BY VIRTUE OF THEIR POSITION WITH RESPECT TO THEIR CLIENT, MR. SIMPSON?
# 857 A: NO. I DIDN'T GIVE IT ANY THOUGHT.
# 858 Q: OKAY. AS OF THE TIME THAT THE DOOR WAS IN JEOPARDY AND YOU WERE TRYING TO GET A WESTEC MAN ON THE SCENE AT ROCKINGHAM, TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, HAD ANYONE CALLED THE CORONER TO BE PRESENT?
# 859 A: NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE.
# 860 Q: DO YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THERE'S A LEGAL REQUIREMENT OBLIGATING POLICE OFFICERS GENERALLY, INCLUDING YOU, TO SEE THAT THAT IS DONE WITHIN CERTAIN LIMITS?
# 862 Q: BASED ON YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF POLICE PRACTICE, DOES ANYONE HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO TELL ANOTHER OFFICER, "WE WILL NOT CALL THE CORONER IN THIS CASE, NOT NOW"? DOES ANYONE HAVE THAT AUTHORITY IN THE LAPD?
# 863 A: I WOULD THINK THE DETECTIVE IN CHARGE OF THE CASE COULD MAKE THAT JUDGMENT, CERTAINLY.
# 864 Q: AND FOR HOW MANY DAYS DOES HE HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO KEEP THE CORONER AWAY FROM THE SCENE, SERGEANT, IF YOU KNOW?
# 866 Q: CAN YOU THINK OF ANY REASON WHY AT 6:30 P.M., YOUR CORRESPONDENT BY CELLULAR PHONE, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, WOULD TELL ANOTHER, "LET'S NOT CALL THE CORONER IN THIS CASE AS A SPECIAL FAVOR"? CAN YOU THINK OF THAT?
# 867 THE COURT: 6:30 P.M.
# 868 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. 6:30 P.M., YOUR HONOR?
# 869 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
# 870 MR. BAILEY: I'M SORRY. A.M. A.M.
# 871 THE COURT: REPHRASE THE QUESTION.
# 872 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: WOULD YOU KNOW IF THAT HAPPENED?
# 873 THE COURT: REPHRASE THE QUESTION.
# 874 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: YES. CAN YOU THINK OF ANY REASON WHY DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WOULD TELL SOMEONE TO PREVENT THE CORONER FROM COMING TO THE SCENE AFTER 6:00 A.M. IN THE MORNING OF THE HOMICIDE?
# 875 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE.
# 876 THE COURT: SUSTAINED. SUSTAINED.
# 877 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: DO YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THAT WAS DONE?
# 878 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. THAT CALLS FOR SPECULATION.
# 879 THE COURT: OVERRULED. DO YOU KNOW?
# 880 SGT. DAVID ROSSI: NO, SIR, I DON'T KNOW.
# 881 THE COURT: NEXT QUESTION.
# 882 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: AS YOU SIT THERE TODAY, YOU ARE HEARING FOR THE FIRST TIME FROM ME THAT THAT MAY HAVE OCCURRED. IS THAT YOUR STATEMENT?
# 883 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. ARGUMENTATIVE.
# 884 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
# 885 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: ALL RIGHT. ARE YOU FAMILIAR, SERGEANT, WITH THE LAPD MANUAL?
# 887 Q: SOMEWHAT. DO YOU VISIT IT FROM TIME TO TIME TO REMIND YOURSELF OF THE RULES AND REGULATIONS THAT GOVERN YOUR CONDUCT?
# 889 Q: DO YOU TAKE REFRESHER COURSES THAT ENABLE YOU TO REMEMBER WHAT SOME OF THOSE RULES AND REGULATIONS ARE?
# 891 Q: ALL RIGHT. DO YOU REMEMBER THE LAST ONE YOU TOOK?
# 893 Q: HOW MANY VOLUMES ARE THERE OF THE LAPD MANUAL IF YOU RECALL?
# 895 Q: CURRENT VERSION.
# 897 Q: DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT IS CONTAINED IN VOLUME 1, SECTION 210.46?
# 899 Q: MISCONDUCT OF OFFICERS. ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THAT, SIR.
# 900 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION.
# 901 THE COURT: OBJECTION OVERRULED.
# 902 SGT. DAVID ROSSI: I HAVE READ IT.
# 903 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: DOES IT NOT IMPOSE UPON YOU AND EVERY OFFICER IN THE LAPD A DUTY TO REPORT MISCONDUCT BY OTHERS?
# 905 MR. BAILEY: ALL RIGHT. YOUR HONOR, THIS IS A GOOD TIME TO BREAK IF IT'S CONVENIENT FOR THE COURT.
# 906 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE ARE GOING TO TAKE OUR RECESS FOR THE AFTERNOON. SERGEANT ROSSI, YOU CAN STEP DOWN. YOU ARE ORDERED TO RETURN HERE TOMORROW MORNING AT 9:00 O'CLOCK. PLEASE DON'T DISCUSS YOUR TESTIMONY WITH ANYBODY ELSE EXCEPT FOR THE LAWYERS. ALL RIGHT. SEE YOU TOMORROW MORNING. ALL RIGHT. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE ARE GOING TO TAKE OUR RECESS FOR THE AFTERNOON. PLEASE REMEMBER MY ADMONITIONS TO YOU; DON'T DISCUSS THE CASE AMONGST YOURSELVES, DON'T FORM ANY OPINIONS ABOUT THE CASE, DON'T LET ANYBODY TALK TO YOU OR COMMUNICATE WITH YOU ABOUT THE CASE, DO NOT CONDUCT ANY DELIBERATIONS ON THE MATTER UNTIL IT HAS BEEN SUBMITTED TO YOU FOR YOUR FINAL JUDGMENT. ALL RIGHT. AS TO THE ATTORNEYS, I WOULD LIKE YOU TO STAY. WE HAVE A FEW MATTERS WE NEED TO DISCUSS. LET'S CLEAR THE COURTROOM FOR THE JURY, PLEASE.