📄 Direct examination of Laura Hart McKinny — Tuesday, August 29, 1995
Address:
C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\AUG\29\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-LAURA-HA.DOC
TRIAL
▲ Day 144 of 167

Direct examination of Laura Hart McKinny

Witness: Laura Hart McKinny
Examiner: Gerald Uelmen
Called by: Defense • Date: Tuesday, August 29, 1995 • Utterances: 378
Defense attorney Gerald Uelmen systematically played excerpts from Defense Exhibit 1365 — a videotape compilation of McKinny's recorded interviews with Detective Mark Fuhrman — walking McKinny through authentication of each excerpt, including racial slurs and police misconduct admissions. Several excerpts lacked audio because tape no. 9 had been inadvertently recorded over, requiring Uelmen to establish foundation through McKinny's transcripts instead. The session covered the 'B' category (racial slur excerpts) and moved into the 'C' category (police misconduct excerpts) before breaking for lunch.
1 (At 11:00 A.M., Defense exhibit 1365, a videotape, was played.)
2 THE COURT:

Can we have audio?

3 MR. UELMEN:

We should.

4 (At 11:00 A.M., Defense exhibit 1365, a videotape, was played.)
5 MR. UELMEN:

Now, excerpt B-18.

6 (At 11:01 A.M., Defense exhibit 1365, a videotape, was played.)
7 MR. UELMEN:

Excerpts 19 and 20. What we have done is number each use of the word so this is one excerpt with two uses of the word.

8 (At 11:02 A.M., Defense exhibit 1365, a videotape, was played.)
9 MR. UELMEN:

Next we have excerpts 21 through 24, three uses--four uses of the word.

10 (At 11:03 A.M., Defense exhibit 1365, a videotape, was played.)
11 THE COURT:

Mr. Uelmen--hold on, Mr. Harris. That is one of the enhanced versions?

12 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)
13 MR. UELMEN:

Yes, I believe it is, your Honor.

14 THE COURT:

All right.

15 MR. UELMEN:

To reduce the background noise.

16 THE COURT:

Thank you. All right. 25.

17 MR. UELMEN:

No. 25.

18 (At 11:04 A.M., Defense exhibit 1365, a videotape, was played.)
19 MR. UELMEN:

I believe that, too, is an enhanced tape, your Honor. No. 26.

20 (At 11:05 A.M., Defense exhibit 1365, a videotape, was played.)
21 MR. UELMEN:

Proceeding to 27, your Honor. The record should reflect that this is the interview in which Laurie Diaz is present and these comments are also directed to her.

22 (At 11:05 A.M., Defense exhibit 1365, a videotape, was played.)
23 MR. UELMEN:

And no. 28 is likewise in the presence of Miss Diaz.

24 (At 11:06 A.M., Defense exhibit 1365, a videotape, was played.)
25 MR. UELMEN:

No. 29.

26 (At 11:06 A.M., Defense exhibit 1365, a videotape, was played.)
27 MR. UELMEN:

No. 30.

28 (At 11:06 A.M., Defense exhibit 1365, a videotape, was played.)
29 MR. UELMEN:

No. 31.

30 (At 11:07 A.M., Defense exhibit 1365, a videotape, was played.)
31 THE COURT:

Sorry, Miss McKinny. Could you roll that back?

32 MS. MCKINNY:

If you could roll that back, I believe my name was listed incorrectly on that, just as an addendum.

33 MR. UELMEN:

The tape--

34 THE COURT:

This is no. 31. Mr. Harris, would you run that back for us, please.

35 MS. MCKINNY:

Thank you.

36 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)
37 (At 11:08 A.M., Defense exhibit 1365, a videotape, was played.)
38 MR. UELMEN:

At the beginning--the record should reflect the speaker is identified as McKinny incorrectly.

39 MR. UELMEN:

Is that--

40 MS. MCKINNY:

That's correct.

41 MR. UELMEN:

Is that Officer Fuhrman speaking?

42 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes, it is.

43 MR. UELMEN:

Thank you.

44 (At 11:09 A.M., Defense exhibit 1365, a videotape, was played.)
45 THE COURT:

32.

46 MR. UELMEN:

No. 32.

47 (At 11:09 A.M., Defense exhibit 1365, a videotape, was played.)
48 MR. UELMEN:

Your Honor, numbers 33 through 37 we do not have audio. These are all taken from tape no. 9, which was inadvertently taped over. This is no. 33.

49 (At 11:10 A.M., Defense exhibit 1365, a videotape, was played.)
50 MR. UELMEN:

Should I put the words on the record, your Honor?

51 THE COURT:

No, they are in the offer of proof, as I recollect, aren't they, counsel?

52 MR. UELMEN:

Yes.

53 THE COURT:

All right. So long as you refer in the record as to which offer this is, which is on--we are on 33 now, correct?

54 MR. UELMEN:

Yes.

55 THE COURT:

All right.

56 MR. UELMEN:

And I take it it is unnecessary to elicit from Miss McKinny her recollection of each of these?

57 THE COURT:

I think since there is no tape, I think you do need to establish some foundation regarding when the transcript was done, accuracy, et cetera, et cetera.

58 MR. UELMEN:

All right.

59 MR. UELMEN:

Referring to what was just displayed as excerpt no. 33, Miss McKinny, do you recall those words being spoken by Officer Fuhrman?

60 MS. MCKINNY:

I need to read it again or look at the proffer, please.

61 MR. UELMEN:

I'm sorry?

62 MS. MCKINNY:

I need to read it again or look at the proffer, please.

63 MR. UELMEN:

All right. Can you look at the offer of proof, no. 33.

64 MR. DARDEN:

I would ask that the witness look at the monitor again. The proffer puts it in context.

65 THE COURT:

That is true.

66 MR. UELMEN:

All right. Would you display 33 again, please.

67 (At 11:10 A.M., Defense exhibit 1365, a videotape, was played.)
68 MR. UELMEN:

Do you recall that statement?

69 MS. MCKINNY:

I don't have an independent recollection of that statement, no.

70 MR. UELMEN:

All right. Now, if you could refer to your transcript no. 9 at page 1, I believe it is in the front of the collection of transcripts that you have there.

71 MR. DARDEN:

Objection, your Honor.

72 THE COURT:

Overruled.

73 MR. DARDEN:

Foundation.

74 THE COURT:

Overruled.

75 MR. UELMEN:

Please.

76 (Witness complies.)
77 MR. UELMEN:

Referring to your transcript no. 9 at page 1, do you have that?

78 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes, I do.

79 MR. UELMEN:

Do those words appear in the transcript, "Now it is funny because guys in internal affairs"--

80 MR. DARDEN:

Objection, your Honor. This is offered to the witness to refresh her recollection.

81 THE COURT:

That's correct.

82 MR. DARDEN:

May the witness close the book now, your Honor?

83 THE COURT:

As soon as she finishes reading.

84 MR. UELMEN:

Does that refresh your recollection?

85 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

86 MR. UELMEN:

Do you recall these words being spoken by Officer Fuhrman?

87 MS. MCKINNY:

In the context of this, yes.

88 MR. UELMEN:

And in what context was that?

89 MS. MCKINNY:

We were talking about a particular investigation, an investigation of IA, internal affairs, related to an incident in the story.

90 MR. UELMEN:

And when and where did this conversation take place?

91 MS. MCKINNY:

It took place in 1987, approximately the summer of `87.

92 MR. UELMEN:

Do you recall the date in 1987?

93 MS. MCKINNY:

I don't recall the exact date. It would have probably been in the summer or spring or early summer.

94 MR. UELMEN:

Did you indicate a date on the transcript itself?

95 MS. MCKINNY:

May I refer back to the transcript? I believe I did.

96 MR. UELMEN:

If that would refresh your recollection.

97 (Witness complies.)
98 MR. DARDEN:

No foundation.

99 THE COURT:

Overruled. Go ahead.

100 MS. MCKINNY:

The date on the transcript is--

101 THE COURT:

Just read it to see if that refreshes your recollection as to when it was.

102 MS. MCKINNY:

Oh.

103 MR. UELMEN:

Is that--

104 MS. MCKINNY:

I only recall that it was sometime in `87, in the spring or early summer, so that refreshes my recollection.

105 MR. UELMEN:

In the spring or early summer of 1987?

106 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

107 MR. UELMEN:

And was that also in Los Angeles?

108 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

109 MR. UELMEN:

That would be true with respect to offers 34, 35, 36 and 37, your Honor, that come from the same transcript.

110 MR. UELMEN:

Do you actually recall word for word the words that Officer Fuhrman spoke on that occasion?

111 MS. MCKINNY:

No.

112 MR. UELMEN:

Is the transcript an accurate record of what Officer Fuhrman said at that time?

113 MS. MCKINNY:

The transcript would be an accurate record of what Officer Fuhrman said.

114 MR. UELMEN:

And did you make that transcript soon after the conversation took place?

115 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

116 MR. UELMEN:

How soon?

117 MS. MCKINNY:

Within a day or two.

118 MR. UELMEN:

And you didn't change or in any way alter the words that you heard on the tape in preparing the transcript?

119 MR. DARDEN:

Leading.

120 THE COURT:

Sustained. Rephrase the question.

121 MR. UELMEN:

Did you put into the transcript the words that you actually heard Officer Fuhrman speaking on the tape?

122 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes. I transcribed the words I actually heard Officer Fuhrman speak.

123 MR. UELMEN:

All right. Thank you. Could we proceed to excerpt 34.

124 (At 11:15 A.M., Defense exhibit 1365, a videotape, was played.)
125 MR. UELMEN:

Do you recall Officer Fuhrman speaking those words?

126 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

127 MR. UELMEN:

And was that also in the spring or early summer of 1987 also?

128 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

129 MR. UELMEN:

In the same conversation as the previous excerpt?

130 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

131 MR. UELMEN:

And does a script accurately reflect the words that Officer Fuhrman spoke?

132 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

133 MR. DARDEN:

Objection, no foundation.

134 THE COURT:

Overruled.

135 MR. UELMEN:

If we could proceed to no. 35.

136 (At 11:16 A.M., Defense exhibit 1365, a videotape, was played.)
137 MR. UELMEN:

Do you recall those words being spoken by Officer Fuhrman?

138 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

139 MR. UELMEN:

When and where were they spoken?

140 MS. MCKINNY:

That would be in the same interview in 1987.

141 MR. UELMEN:

And does the transcript accurately reflect the words that Officer Fuhrman spoke on that occasion?

142 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

143 MR. UELMEN:

No. 36.

144 (At 11:17 A.M., Defense exhibit 1365, a videotape, was played.)
145 MR. UELMEN:

Do you recall those words being spoken by Officer Fuhrman?

146 MS. MCKINNY:

No, I have no independent recollection of those words.

147 MR. UELMEN:

All right. Could you look at transcript no. 9 at page 11.

148 MR. DARDEN:

No foundation.

149 THE COURT:

Overruled. Just read it to yourself and see if that refreshes your recollection as to what was there?

150 MS. MCKINNY:

(Witness complies.) I'm sorry, I haven't found it on page 9.

151 MR. UELMEN:

No, page 11.

152 MS. MCKINNY:

I'm sorry.

153 (Brief pause.)
154 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

155 MR. UELMEN:

That refreshes your recollection?

156 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

157 MR. UELMEN:

Do you remember the context in which these words were spoken?

158 MS. MCKINNY:

In terms of accountability for police officer actions.

159 MR. UELMEN:

And these words were spoken in the course of the same interview in the spring or early summer of 1987?

160 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

161 MR. UELMEN:

And the transcript accurately records what Officer Fuhrman said?

162 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

163 MR. DARDEN:

Objection, no foundation.

164 THE COURT:

Overruled.

165 MR. UELMEN:

All right. No. 37.

166 (At 11:20 A.M., Defense exhibit 1365, a videotape, was played.)
167 MR. UELMEN:

Do you recall those words being spoken by Officer Fuhrman?

168 MS. MCKINNY:

No, I have no independent recollection of those words.

169 MR. UELMEN:

All right. Could you look at the transcript for no. 9 at page 12.

170 MR. DARDEN:

No foundation, objection.

171 THE COURT:

Overruled.

172 MS. MCKINNY:

(Witness complies.) Yes.

173 MR. UELMEN:

Does that refresh your recollection?

174 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

175 MR. UELMEN:

Do you recall the context in which those words were spoken?

176 MS. MCKINNY:

We were talking about the problems between different racial groups and LAPD; specifically Hispanics, Mexicans, and blacks.

KEY QUOTE
177 MR. UELMEN:

All right. And these words were spoken in the course of the same conversation in the spring or early summer of 1987?

178 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

179 MR. UELMEN:

And does that transcript accurately record the words of Officer Fuhrman?

180 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

181 MR. UELMEN:

All right. Now, the next three excerpts, 38 and 39 and 40--well, specifically 38 and 40, make some reference to the 77th precinct.

182 MR. UELMEN:

Did that have some particular relevance to the conversations with Officer Fuhrman?

183 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

184 THE COURT:

Just so the record is straight, we don't have precincts in Los Angeles.

185 MR. UELMEN:

Division.

186 THE COURT:

Division.

187 MR. COCHRAN:

Yes.

188 MR. UELMEN:

Could you explain what the 77th division, what significance that had?

189 MS. MCKINNY:

I had ridden along with some officers in the 77th and I was modeling this particular division after the 77th.

190 MR. UELMEN:

For the screenplay?

191 MS. MCKINNY:

For the screenplay, yes.

192 MR. UELMEN:

And where is the 77th located?

193 MS. MCKINNY:

I forget the exact street location, I'm sorry.

194 MR. UELMEN:

Is that in south central Los Angeles?

195 MS. MCKINNY:

Umm, yes. I just forget the exact location.

196 MR. UELMEN:

All right. Could we have excerpt no. 38, please.

197 (At 11:24 A.M., Defense exhibit 1365, a videotape, was played.)
198 MR. UELMEN:

Excerpt no. 39.

199 (At 11:25 A.M., Defense exhibit 1365, a videotape, was played.)
200 MR. UELMEN:

No. 40.

201 (At 11:26 A.M., Defense exhibit 1365, a videotape, was played.)
202 MR. UELMEN:

Do you recall the context of that excerpt, Miss McKinny?

203 MS. MCKINNY:

It would be a helpful--

204 THE COURT:

This is a discussion about the 77th?

205 MS. MCKINNY:

It would be only in discussing the 77th and perhaps after a ride-along that I had done.

206 MR. UELMEN:

Offer no. 41, your Honor, is not on the tape yet, it was added in our supplement to the Defense amended offer of proof after it was located on a transcript of tape no. 10. So if I could read it into the record?

207 THE COURT:

It is actually a page 2 of your supplement, correct?

208 MR. UELMEN:

Yes. "Came up with a new name for niggers. Anthrocide," A-N-T-H-R-O-C-I-D-E, "Dark gray color on Porsches, now nobody is going to mind being called an anthrocide do you think?"

KEY QUOTE
209 MR. UELMEN:

Do you recall Officer Fuhrman speaking those words?

210 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

211 MR. UELMEN:

And do you recall when and where that comment was made?

212 MS. MCKINNY:

No.

213 THE COURT:

Was that a misspelling?

214 MR. UELMEN:

Umm, it was just done phonetically, your Honor, so it may well be.

215 MR. UELMEN:

If you could refer to the transcript of tape no. 10 on page 16, please.

216 (Witness complies.)
217 THE COURT:

Anthracite. All right. Mr. Uelmen, what is the purpose of this at this point?

218 MR. UELMEN:

Of 41?

219 THE COURT:

Yes.

220 MR. UELMEN:

Well, it is the most recent of all of the offers.

221 THE COURT:

All right. What is the date on this?

222 MR. UELMEN:

1988.

223 THE COURT:

All right.

224 MS. CLARK:

Is it clear to the court there is no tape for this?

225 THE COURT:

Yes.

226 MS. CLARK:

I mean no audiotape at all.

227 THE COURT:

Yes.

228 MS. CLARK:

Okay.

229 MR. UELMEN:

Does that refresh your recollection?

230 MS. MCKINNY:

I'm unable to find it.

231 THE COURT:

It is not very coherently put together.

232 MR. UELMEN:

I think we may have the wrong transcript.

233 MS. MCKINNY:

I'm looking at tape no. 10, page 16.

234 MR. UELMEN:

Okay. I understand the problem.

235 THE COURT:

I think we are looking at a transcript.

236 MR. UELMEN:

What you have there is the transcript of tape no. 10, but what we want to refer to is your transcript no. 10.

237 THE COURT:

No. 10. Why don't you show it to her, counsel? Could you have it in the book?

238 MR. DARDEN:

Your Honor, I have it.

239 (Discussion held off the record between Deputy District Attorney and Defense counsel.)
240 MR. UELMEN:

We have a page of that transcript, page 16.

241 MS. MCKINNY:

Thank you.

242 THE COURT:

This is a half page?

243 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes, I remember it from my transcript.

244 THE COURT:

I'm sorry, counsel, which page?

245 MS. MCKINNY:

You can take that back.

246 MR. UELMEN:

Page no. 16.

247 THE COURT:

16.

248 MR. UELMEN:

Of the McKinny transcript, no. 10.

249 THE COURT:

Got it. Thank you.

250 MR. UELMEN:

Does that refresh your recollection?

251 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

252 MR. UELMEN:

That appears under the name "Farrell"; is that correct?

253 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes, it does.

254 MR. UELMEN:

Does that have some association for you in terms of how this occurred?

255 MS. MCKINNY:

I believe there was an Officer Farrell with whom Officer Fuhrman had worked at one time and this is a portion of the tape in which there were categories and then transcribed--the transcriptions are Officer Fuhrman's words, but the categories are regarding my questions or the areas of conversation.

256 MR. UELMEN:

And is the transcription an accurate record of words that were spoken by Officer Fuhrman?

257 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

258 MR. UELMEN:

And do you recall approximately when this conversation took place?

259 MS. MCKINNY:

To my best recollection I believe it was 1988. This particular example doesn't help me know that. There is something else on that tape that helps me know that it was 1988.

260 MR. UELMEN:

All right. So in looking at that transcript, there were other portions that reminded you of the time that the conversation took place?

261 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

262 MR. UELMEN:

What was that?

263 MS. MCKINNY:

There was one reference to being a good father, on being a father, and at the time I was either pregnant with my second child, son, my second son, or had just given birth, so I remember that reference particularly sticking, and then I think there is another reference to 1988 being the year of the gangs and the next year being something else. I don't recall it verbatim.

264 MR. UELMEN:

All right. So that in context was a conversation that you recall taking place in 1988?

265 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes. I also remember this particular item because I didn't get it.

KEY QUOTE
266 MR. UELMEN:

You didn't get it?

267 MS. MCKINNY:

I didn't understand. It was a joke that I didn't get.

268 MR. UELMEN:

Now, this was a conversation that was taped over; is that correct, where the tape was reused?

269 MS. MCKINNY:

I don't know.

270 MR. UELMEN:

You haven't been able to locate the actual tape of this conversation?

271 MS. MCKINNY:

That's correct.

272 MR. UELMEN:

All right. But the transcript that you prepared, was that done shortly after the conversation took place?

273 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

274 MR. UELMEN:

And is that an accurate record of what Officer Fuhrman said?

275 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

276 MR. UELMEN:

All right. We can now move on, your Honor, to the C category, the police misconduct excerpts. And the first nine of these--no, eight of these--the first eight of these are all drawn from the first transcribed conversation.

277 THE COURT:

All right.

278 MR. UELMEN:

So if we could roll no. 1 and then--

279 (At 11:35 A.M., Defense exhibit 1365, a videotape, was played.)
280 MR. UELMEN:

And we could proceed directly to no. 2.

281 (At 11:36 A.M., Defense exhibit 1365, a videotape, was played.)
282 MR. UELMEN:

Now, this excerpt indicates in parenthetical in response to a question, "Have you done that before?" "Nods." Do you remember these words being spoken by Officer Fuhrman?

283 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

284 MR. UELMEN:

And did you indicate in your transcription the reference to nods?

285 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

286 MR. UELMEN:

And could you explain what you meant by that?

287 MS. MCKINNY:

That Officer Fuhrman nodded in the affirmative.

288 MR. UELMEN:

All right. So he was nodding his head up and down?

289 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

290 MR. UELMEN:

In an affirmative way?

291 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

292 MR. UELMEN:

As though he were saying, yes, I have done that before?

293 MS. MCKINNY:

Correct.

294 MR. UELMEN:

Thank you. Excerpt no. 3.

295 (At 11:37 A.M., Defense exhibit 1365, a videotape, was played.)
296 MR. UELMEN:

Excerpt no. 4.

297 (At 11:38 A.M., Defense exhibit 1365, a videotape, was played.)
298 MR. UELMEN:

If we could just stop that for a moment.

299 MR. UELMEN:

Referring back to the list of questions that you gave to Detective Fuhrman after this interview took place--

300 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

301 MR. UELMEN:

--do you still have that in front of you?

302 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

303 MR. UELMEN:

If you could look at question no. 16 of the follow-up questions you had posed for round two of your interviews.

304 MS. MCKINNY:

(Witness complies.) Yes.

305 MR. UELMEN:

Question no. 16 is: "How do you hire someone who is capable of shooting someone in the back, no. 1? And no. 2, on what grounds would you determine who is capable of figuring out who the bad guys are? Refer to page 25 of the transcript." Were you referring Detective Fuhrman specifically to this excerpt in posing that question?

306 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

307 MR. UELMEN:

Thank you. If we could proceed to excerpt no. 5.

308 (At 11:40 A.M., Defense exhibit 1365, a videotape, was played.)
309 MR. UELMEN:

Stop just a moment again.

310 MR. UELMEN:

If you could again refer to the list of follow-up questions that you sent to Officer Fuhrman and look at question no. 20.

311 MS. MCKINNY:

(Witness complies.) Yes.

312 MR. UELMEN:

Now, that question actually quotes the phrase, "Most of these pukes couldn't do it"; is that correct?

313 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

314 MR. UELMEN:

Was that a reference to that same language appearing in this excerpt, "Most of these pukes couldn't do it"?

315 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

316 MR. UELMEN:

No. 6, please.

317 (At 11:42 A.M., Defense exhibit 1365, a videotape, was played.)
318 MR. UELMEN:

Stop for a moment.

319 MR. UELMEN:

And once again, Miss McKinny, refer to the list of follow-up questions, no. 24.

320 MS. MCKINNY:

(Witness complies.) Yes.

321 MR. UELMEN:

In question--follow-up question no. 24 you referred Officer Fuhrman specifically to page 30 of the transcript?

322 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

323 MR. UELMEN:

And posed a question about meeting the guy who killed two police officers; is that correct?

324 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

325 MR. UELMEN:

Is that a reference to the information in this excerpt?

326 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

327 MR. UELMEN:

Thank you.

328 THE COURT:

Do we have any idea who this person was?

329 MS. MCKINNY:

No.

330 THE COURT:

Do you have any belief that there was a real person to whom Detective Fuhrman was referring to?

331 MS. MCKINNY:

I don't know.

332 THE COURT:

Given your connection with UCLA, were you aware of any student who met that description?

333 MS. MCKINNY:

No, I was not aware of that.

334 THE COURT:

All right.

335 MR. UELMEN:

No. 7.

336 (At 11:45 A.M., Defense exhibit 1365, a videotape, was played.)
337 MR. UELMEN:

Do you recall the context of excerpt no. 7?

338 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

339 MR. UELMEN:

Was Officer Fuhrman describing an actual arrest in which he participated?

340 MR. DARDEN:

Objection, calls for a conclusion, speculation, foundation.

341 THE COURT:

Foundation. Rephrase the question.

342 MR. UELMEN:

The excerpt starts out, "So under what did you arrest him?" Were you asking Officer Fuhrman about an arrest of a specific individual?

343 MS. MCKINNY:

I believe I was. I would have to see my transcript to be able to give an accurate assessment, but yes, it--

344 MR. UELMEN:

All right. Could you look at transcript no. 1, pages 33 to 34.

345 MR. DARDEN:

No foundation.

346 THE COURT:

Overruled.

347 MS. MCKINNY:

(Witness complies.) Yes.

348 MR. UELMEN:

Does that refresh your recollection?

349 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

350 MR. UELMEN:

And was he describing an event in which he had participated?

351 MR. DARDEN:

Objection, calls for speculation.

352 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes.

353 MR. DARDEN:

Motion to strike.

354 THE COURT:

Sustained.

355 MR. UELMEN:

Do you describe the context in which he described this arrest?

356 MS. MCKINNY:

He was discussing a suspect that he had arrested.

357 MR. UELMEN:

Do you know when or where this arrest had taken place?

358 MR. DARDEN:

Same objection, your Honor.

359 THE COURT:

Overruled.

360 MS. MCKINNY:

The previous evening.

361 MR. UELMEN:

Thank you. No. 8, please.

362 (At 11:49 A.M., Defense exhibit 1365, a videotape, was played.)
363 MR. UELMEN:

We are ready to proceed to no. 9, which does have audio, your Honor.

364 THE COURT:

Proceed.

365 MR. UELMEN:

All right. Excerpt no. 9, please.

366 (At 11:50 A.M., Defense exhibit 1365, a videotape, was played.)
367 MR. UELMEN:

Do you have a particularly vivid memory of that account?

368 MS. MCKINNY:

Of course.

369 MR. UELMEN:

Why is that?

370 MS. MCKINNY:

It is, umm--it is vividly described.

371 MR. UELMEN:

Do you remember any discomfort in hearing it for the first time?

372 MR. DARDEN:

Relevance, your Honor.

373 THE COURT:

Overruled.

374 MS. MCKINNY:

Yes. It was one of the--it was very uncomfortable to sit through that, but as I mentioned before, I was in a journalistic mode of trying to get that type of information.

KEY QUOTE
375 MR. UELMEN:

Thank you. Shall we proceed?

376 THE COURT:

No, let's take a break now. All right. Ladies and gentlemen, we are going to take our recess for the morning session. Miss McKinny, I'm going to direct you to come back at one o'clock.

377 MS. MCKINNY:

Thank you.

378 THE COURT:

All right. We will stand in recess until one o'clock.

Temperature

devastating

Key Quotes (4)

Gerald Uelmen
"Came up with a new name for niggers. Anthrocide," A-N-T-H-R-O-C-I-D-E, "Dark gray color on Porsches, now nobody is going to mind being called an anthrocide do you think?"
Uelmen reading Fuhrman's words into the record for excerpt 41, which had no tape; Ito noted the likely correct spelling is 'anthracite' — Fuhrman was using a luxury car color as a coded racial slur
Laura Hart McKinny
Yes. It was one of the--it was very uncomfortable to sit through that, but as I mentioned before, I was in a journalistic mode of trying to get that type of information.
McKinny explaining her reaction to excerpt 9 — one of the most graphic police misconduct accounts — and framing her role as a journalist rather than a participant
Laura Hart McKinny
We were talking about the problems between different racial groups and LAPD; specifically Hispanics, Mexicans, and blacks.
McKinny providing context for excerpt 37, establishing Fuhrman's racial animus as a recurring conversational theme across the interviews
Laura Hart McKinny
I also remember this particular item because I didn't get it... I didn't understand. It was a joke that I didn't get.
McKinny's candid admission about the 'anthracite' excerpt — she found it confusing at the time, which ironically helps authenticate that she transcribed it accurately rather than fabricating it

Evidence (3)

Defense 1365
Videotape compilation of excerpts from McKinny's recorded interviews with Detective Mark Fuhrman, organized into lettered and numbered categories (B-series for racial slurs, C-series for police misconduct); some excerpts enhanced to reduce background noise
Played systematically, excerpt by excerpt, with McKinny authenticating each one
Informal
McKinny's written transcripts of her interviews with Fuhrman, organized by tape number (tapes 1, 9, 10); used to refresh recollection when audio was unavailable
Referenced repeatedly to establish foundation for excerpts from tape no. 9, which had been recorded over
Informal
McKinny's written follow-up questions sent to Fuhrman after the first interview round, referencing specific transcript pages
Used to show deliberate continuity — McKinny's questions for 'round two' cited specific Fuhrman quotes, reinforcing transcript accuracy

Notable Exchanges (3)

Lance A. ItoLaura Hart McKinny
After excerpt 6 (Fuhrman describing meeting someone who killed two police officers), Ito stepped out of a passive role to ask whether McKinny believed a real person was being described and whether she knew of any UCLA student matching that description
probing
Gerald UelmenLance A. ItoMarcia Clark
Uelmen attempted to read excerpt 41 into the record; Ito noted the phonetic spelling 'anthrocide' was likely wrong; Clark confirmed there was no audiotape at all for this excerpt; Ito identified the correct word as 'anthracite'
procedural with grim undertone
Gerald UelmenLaura Hart McKinny
After excerpt 9 — described by McKinny as 'vividly described' — Uelmen asked about her discomfort hearing it for the first time; McKinny acknowledged significant discomfort but framed her endurance of it as journalistic professionalism
revealing

Light Moments (1)

Lance A. Ito
Ito interjected mid-examination to correct Uelmen's use of 'precinct' — noting that Los Angeles does not have precincts, only divisions

Credibility Attacks (1)

⚔ Laura Hart McKinny
foundation challenges
Darden repeatedly objected on foundation grounds to questions about transcript accuracy and Fuhrman's intent, attempting to undermine the chain of custody and authentication of both the tapes and McKinny's transcripts; most objections were overruled

Witness Demeanor

(Witness complies.) — repeated throughout for transcript review
(Brief pause.) — during search for transcript page
McKinny interjected mid-playback to note her name had been incorrectly labeled on excerpt 31, showing careful attention to the record

Objections

13 objections (3 sustained, 9 overruled)
Proceeding 7464 • 378 utterances • Defense witness
Criminal Trial
Department 103
⚖️ Start
📂 AUG 29, 1995 📄 Direct examination of Laura Ha
AUG 29, 1995 KRT DvH TD