📄 Cross-examination of Dr. Henry Lee (morning, part 1) — Monday, August 28, 1995
Address:
C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\AUG\28\CROSS-EXAMINATION-OF-DR-HENRY-.DOC
TRIAL
▲ Day 143 of 167

Cross-examination of Dr. Henry Lee (morning, part 1)

Witness: Dr. Henry Lee
Examiner: Hank Goldberg
Called by: Defense • Date: Monday, August 28, 1995 • Utterances: 48
Henry Lee resumes the witness stand for cross-examination by prosecutor Hank Goldberg. The questioning focuses on establishing Lee's credentials in forensic DNA technology — both PCR and RFLP — and his laboratory's use of those methods in criminal cases. The session ends with a brief reference to the famous Crafts 'wood chipper' murder case, one of Lee's most notable prior involvements.
1 THE COURT:

All right. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Please be seated. Let the record reflect that we have been rejoined by all the members of our jury panel. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

THE JURY: Good morning.

2 THE COURT:

All right. Dr. Henry Lee.

3 DR. LEE:

Yes.

4 THE COURT:

Dr. Lee, would you resume the witness stand, please.

5 DR. LEE:

Your Honor. Good morning.

Henry C. Lee, the witness on the stand at the time of the evening adjournment, resumed the stand and testified further as follows:

6 THE COURT:

The record should reflect that Dr. Henry Lee is again on the witness stand. Good morning, Dr. Lee.

7 DR. LEE:

Good morning, sir.

8 THE COURT:

Doctor, you are reminded that you are still under oath. And Mr. Goldberg, you may commence your cross-examination.

9 MR. GOLDBERG:

Thank you.

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. GOLDBERG

10 MR. GOLDBERG:

Good morning, Dr. Lee.

11 DR. LEE:

Good morning.

12 MR. GOLDBERG:

How are you doing today?

13 DR. LEE:

A little tired.

14 MR. GOLDBERG:

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

THE JURY: Good morning.

15 MR. GOLDBERG:

Now, Dr. Lee, I just wanted very briefly to ask you a few questions about some of the qualifications that you went over with Mr. Scheck when you began your testimony. Just so we are clear, you are an expert in forensic DNA technology; is that correct?

16 DR. LEE:

A lot of people refer me as an expert, yes.

17 MR. GOLDBERG:

Okay. And you consider yourself to be an expert in forensic DNA technology?

18 DR. LEE:

I know something about DNA. Little bit; not everything.

KEY QUOTE
19 MR. GOLDBERG:

Quite a bit, right, in terms of its forensic application?

20 DR. LEE:

Forensic application, yes.

21 MR. GOLDBERG:

All right. And Mr. Scheck was asking you about some of the things that your laboratory does in the forensic area. Is this laboratory exclusively a forensic laboratory?

22 DR. LEE:

Yes.

23 MR. GOLDBERG:

All right. And are you using RFLP technology in forensic cases?

24 DR. LEE:

Yes.

25 MR. GOLDBERG:

And are you also using PCR technology in forensic cases?

26 DR. LEE:

Yes.

27 MR. GOLDBERG:

Dr. Lee, are you using PCR technology in criminal cases both to include and exclude people as having committed a crime?

28 DR. LEE:

Yes.

29 MR. GOLDBERG:

All right. Now, you were asked about some of the cases that you and your lab people have participated in involving the identification of human remains. Do you remember that?

30 DR. LEE:

Yes, sir.

31 MR. GOLDBERG:

Now, most of the cases that were referred to happened abroad, I think one in South America and then there was a number of instances in Europe; is that correct?

32 DR. LEE:

Some in this country, too, yes.

33 MR. GOLDBERG:

What were the technologies that are being used in the cases that you referred to on direct examination for purposes of human identification?

34 DR. LEE:

Human identification basically bone technique, depends on the bone sample. Smaller sample, we have to use PCR, no other choice. If no high molecular weight DNA, with extract from the sample, we will have to do the best we can do. If have a large amount of sample, of course RFLP is a choice.

35 MR. GOLDBERG:

Okay. And sir, when you are saying that you used PCR technology, does that include the cases that you were referring to in--as a result of the conflicts in Europe to identify people that have been killed as a result of the war there?

36 DR. LEE:

Yes. Those are victim was found on an unnamed grave or masked grave, unidentified human remains. For humanity reason we want to find out what is the loved one, so we try to help those country identify those human remain.

37 MR. GOLDBERG:

And Dr. Lee, is it your stated position that forensic scientists are in the best position to evaluate whether PCR technology is ready to make the technology transfer into the forensic field?

38 DR. LEE:

I think forensic scientists should have a good say about what method we should do, what is the reliable procedure, what kind of applications. Certain sample, doesn't matter what we do, we have problems. Other samples, forensic scientists, we should have a choice not dictated by molecular biologist or other scientists tell us what to do.

KEY QUOTE
39 MR. GOLDBERG:

Okay. Now, Dr. Lee, I wanted to just mention very briefly or ask you very briefly about one of the matters that you just alluded to a few moments ago.

40 DR. LEE:

Yes, sir.

41 MR. GOLDBERG:

Regarding identification of human remains in cases here in the continental United States.

42 DR. LEE:

Yes.

43 MR. GOLDBERG:

Your most famous such case where you were personally involved at the crime scene, not at the time of the crime, but afterwards.

44 DR. LEE:

Thank you very much.

45 MR. GOLDBERG:

Yes.--was the People versus Crafts case; is that correct?

46 DR. LEE:

Yes, sir.

47 MR. GOLDBERG:

Okay. And was that a case, sir, where the victim in that case, Helen Crafts, was killed by her husband and she was--he disposed of her by putting her body through a wood chipper machine?

48 DR. LEE:

Yes.

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Dr. Henry Lee
I know something about DNA. Little bit; not everything.
Lee's characteristically humble deflection when pressed on his expert status — a rhetorical move that makes him seem measured and credible rather than overreaching.
Dr. Henry Lee
Forensic scientists should have a good say about what method we should do, what is the reliable procedure...not dictated by molecular biologist or other scientists tell us what to do.
Lee asserts the primacy of forensic scientists over academic scientists in determining evidentiary standards — a foundational defense argument about who gets to judge the DNA evidence in this case.
Dr. Henry Lee
A little tired.
Candid, humanizing response when Goldberg asked how he was doing — drew a light moment at the start of cross.
Dr. Henry Lee
For humanity reason we want to find out what is the loved one, so we try to help those country identify those human remain.
Lee grounds his technical expertise in humanitarian purpose, reinforcing his credibility and sympathetic character with the jury.

Notable Exchanges (2)

Hank GoldbergDr. Henry Lee
Goldberg methodically establishes that Lee's own lab uses PCR technology in criminal cases — both to include and exclude suspects — laying groundwork to challenge any criticism Lee might offer of the prosecution's DNA methods.
strategic
Hank GoldbergDr. Henry Lee
Goldberg pivots to the Crafts 'wood chipper' case, identifying it as Lee's most famous crime scene involvement. Lee confirms the victim was killed and her body disposed of through a wood chipper.
matter-of-fact

Light Moments (2)

Dr. Henry Lee
When asked 'How are you doing today?', Lee replied 'A little tired.' — a rare moment of personal candor that landed warmly.
Dr. Henry Lee
Goldberg set up the Crafts case reference with 'Your most famous such case...' and Lee responded 'Thank you very much' before Goldberg could finish the sentence.

Credibility Attacks (1)

⚔ Dr. Henry Lee
prior testimony / concession elicitation
Goldberg establishes that Lee's own lab employs the same PCR technology used by the prosecution's DNA experts — setting up a future challenge to any criticism Lee levels at the prosecution's methods.

Objections

None recorded
Proceeding 7439 • 48 utterances • Defense witness
Criminal Trial
Department 103
⚖️ Start
📂 AUG 28, 1995 📄 Cross-examination of Dr. Henry
AUG 28, 1995 KRT DvH TD