Cross-examination of Dr. Henry Lee (afternoon, part 5)

📄 Cross-examination of Dr. Henry Lee (afternoon, part 5) — Monday, August 28, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\AUG\28\CROSS-EXAMINATION-OF-DR-HENRY-.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 143 of 167

◀ Sidebar: video evidence Court reconvenes ▶

Witness: Dr. Henry Lee
Examiner: Hank Goldberg
Called by: Defense • Date: Monday, August 28, 1995 • Utterances: 65

Prosecutor Hank Goldberg closed his cross-examination of Dr. Henry Lee by pressing him on the forensic significance of shoeprints found on the Bundy walkway. Using a videotape (Exhibit 101) showing police officers at the scene, Goldberg walked Lee through a hypothetical chain of contamination — officers, Nicole's family, a man named Ron Hardy who hosed the scene — ultimately extracting the concession that Lee 'cannot eliminate' the possibility that any of them deposited the prints Lee had testified about. The session ended with a brief redirect break.

# 1 (The following proceedings were held in open court:)

# 2 THE COURT:

All right. Mr. Goldberg, do you want to show to the jury and to the witness a videotape that has previously been shown?

# 3 MR. GOLDBERG:

Yes, your Honor.

# 4 THE COURT:

And what exhibit is this?

# 5 MR. GOLDBERG:

It's 101.

# 6 THE COURT:

I'm going to ask to review the matter first so the court and counsel can see it only.

# 7 MR. GOLDBERG:

I had a couple questions of Dr. Lee prior to that if I might.

# 8 THE COURT:

All right. But just so our technical staff can set that up.

# 9 MR. GOLDBERG:

Thank you.

# 10 MR. GOLDBERG:

Dr. Lee, would you agree that if footprints were deposited on the Bundy walk after crime scene photography was done and after the crime scene was shut down, that those footprints would not be of forensic relevance?

# 11 DR. LEE:

Uh, I can't say that totally. Depends what kind of context you put in. Sometime a criminal go back to the scene and we do take considerations.

# 12 MR. GOLDBERG:

Okay. Well, other than something that's completely speculative, would you say that generally if a police officer or a citizen, whoever it was, deposited the shoeprints after the photographs and after the crime scene was shut down, that that's not something of forensic relevance?

# 13 DR. LEE:

If in blood, that's still significant.

# 14 MR. GOLDBERG:

If they traipse through blood and then deposit shoeprints, you think that that's significant?

# 15 DR. LEE:

Yes. Yes.

# 16 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

# 17 MR. GOLDBERG:

Well, let me ask you this. If a police officer or a citizen or a photographer traipses through blood after the crime scene's shut down and deposits shoeprints, is that going to help you identify the suspect?

# 18 DR. LEE:

If all the evidence already collected, they're bond at the scene, there no significance.

# 19 MR. GOLDBERG:

Okay. Can we now preview the tape on the counsel table monitors?

# 20 THE COURT:

All right. Just on counsel table, please.

# 21 (At 3:38 P.m., People's exhibit 101, a videotape, was played for counsel and the court.)

# 22 (At 3:40 P.m., the playing of the videotape concluded.)

# 23 THE COURT:

All right. Mr. Scheck, do you recollect the videotape? All right. Do you remember the videotape, Mr. Scheck? Mr. Goldberg, do you wish to play this for the jury?

# 24 MR. GOLDBERG:

Yes, your Honor.

# 25 THE COURT:

All right. Mr. Fairtlough, would you rewind it and play it, please.

# 26 MR. FAIRTLOUGH:

Yes, your Honor.

# 27 (At 3:40 P.m., People's exhibit 101, a videotape, was played for the jury.)

# 28 (At 3:42 P.m., the playing of the videotape concluded.)

# 29 THE COURT:

Mr. Goldberg.

# 30 MR. GOLDBERG:

Thank you, your Honor.

# 31 MR. GOLDBERG:

Sir, did you just view the videotape that we showed to the jurors?

# 32 DR. LEE:

Uh, that's first time I see this videotape.

# 33 MR. GOLDBERG:

Now, if one of these officers that are depicted in the videotape deposited shoeprints after the crime scene was shut down, would that help us determine who committed the murders?

# 34 DR. LEE:

Uh, I don't think these two officer deposit those shoeprint.

KEY QUOTE

# 35 MR. GOLDBERG:

Well, what I'm asking you is, if these officers deposited shoeprints, would it help us determine who committed the murders?

# 36 DR. LEE:

If set belongs to them, no.

# 37 MR. GOLDBERG:

And if these officers or some other member of the public or someone else that came in later deposited the shoeprints that were seen on your photographs taken on June the 25th--

# 38 DR. LEE:

Yes.

# 39 MR. SCHECK:

Objection. Vague as to which photographs.

# 40 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 41 MR. GOLDBERG:

The two photographs on the walkway, would that help us determine who the killer was?

# 42 DR. LEE:

Uh, again, what the photograph I took in June 25th is parallel line design. These two officer, I don't think their shoe sole pattern is similar to the parallel design. It's on the second platform. This footprint has a lot in blood. Not great amount of blood. If great amount of blood, should see much darker color. What I see, it's grayish color. Need a lot of experience to recognize that. If those footprint say in fact left by these two officer, then no significance.

# 43 MR. GOLDBERG:

Now, sir, did you examine the shoes of any of the officers depicted in the photo?

# 44 DR. LEE:

These two officer, if standard police officer issued, maybe I don't think they are parallel design.

# 45 MR. GOLDBERG:

Okay. And that was the basis of your view; is that--

# 46 DR. LEE:

Right.

# 47 MR. GOLDBERG:

Now, if this jury has already heard and seen evidence that Los Angeles police officers wear shoes with a very wide assortment and array of sole designs, would that change your view?

# 48 DR. LEE:

If you can give me those shoes, I can tell you right away what type of shoes.

# 49 MR. GOLDBERG:

That's not quite what I asked. If Mr. Bodziak through--in his testimony introduced and talked about numerous pictures of police officers' shoeprints showing a variety of different patterns--

# 50 DR. LEE:

Well, then you should ask Mr. Bodziak.

KEY QUOTE

# 51 MR. GOLDBERG:

All right. May I just have one moment, your Honor?

# 52 THE COURT:

Certainly.

# 53 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

# 54 MR. GOLDBERG:

Sir, hypothetically, if these police officers that we saw in the video walked through the area after the crime scene was broken down, if Nicole Brown's family walked through the crime scene after it was broken down on June the 13th, if an individual by the name of Ron hardy walked through and hosed portions of the crime scene on June the 14th and a number of other people walked down the walkway prior to the time that you got there--

# 55 DR. LEE:

Yes, sir.

# 56 MR. SCHECK:

Objection. Improper foundation.

# 57 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 58 MR. GOLDBERG:

--can you eliminate the possibility that those people deposited prints at the scene?

# 59 DR. LEE:

I can not eliminate.

KEY QUOTE

# 60 MR. GOLDBERG:

Thank you very much, doctor.

# 61 DR. LEE:

Thank you.

# 62 THE COURT:

Mr. Scheck, do you need a brief break to reorganize?

# 63 MR. SCHECK:

A few minutes.

# 64 THE COURT:

All right. Ladies and gentlemen, you know, we have lots of equipment. We're now going to reshift to redirect examination. I'm going to give counsel a couple minutes just to arrange the exhibits. Let me just ask you to step back in the jury room for a quick comfort break, and we'll call you out in about 10 minutes. All right. Let's take 10. All right. Doctor, you may step down.

# 65 (Recess.)

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (4)

Dr. Henry Lee

I don't think these two officer deposit those shoeprint.

Lee resists the prosecution's framing, offering his own interpretation of the videotaped officers rather than engaging with the hypothetical Goldberg posed.

Dr. Henry Lee

What I see, it's grayish color. Need a lot of experience to recognize that.

Lee subtly asserts his expertise while explaining why the prints are significant, defending the integrity of his original analysis.

Dr. Henry Lee

Well, then you should ask Mr. Bodziak.

A deft deflection when Goldberg invoked FBI shoe expert Bodziak's testimony — Lee declines to be cornered by another expert's findings.

Dr. Henry Lee

I can not eliminate.

The concession Goldberg was building toward throughout the entire examination — Lee admits he cannot rule out post-shutdown contamination of the shoeprint evidence.

Evidence (3)

People's 101

Videotape depicting police officers at the Bundy crime scene

Played first for counsel and court, then for the jury; used to confront Lee with the possibility that officers deposited shoeprints

Informal

Photographs taken by Dr. Lee on June 25th showing parallel-line-design shoeprints on the second platform of the walkway

Referenced during questioning about forensic significance of post-shutdown deposits

Informal

FBI Agent Bodziak's prior testimony showing variety of LAPD officer shoe sole patterns

Referenced by Goldberg to challenge Lee's assumption that officers wore standard-issue non-parallel-design shoes

Notable Exchanges (2)

Hank Goldberg•Dr. Henry Lee

Goldberg builds a layered hypothetical — officers in the video, Nicole's family, Ron Hardy hosing the scene — pressing Lee to admit he cannot rule out any of them as the source of the shoeprints. Lee concedes.

strategic

Hank Goldberg•Dr. Henry Lee

When Goldberg invokes Bodziak's testimony about diverse LAPD shoe patterns, Lee deflects with 'then you should ask Mr. Bodziak,' refusing to be bound by another expert's findings.

evasive/strategic

Credibility Attacks (1)

⚔ Dr. Henry Lee

Undermining foundational assumptions

Goldberg used the videotape and a chain of contamination hypotheticals to force Lee to admit he cannot eliminate the possibility that post-shutdown foot traffic — not the killer — deposited the shoeprints Lee had testified about, weakening the defense's contamination narrative.

Objections

2 objections (1 sustained, 1 overruled)

Proceeding 7445 • 65 utterances • Defense witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103