📄 Direct examination of Kenneth Berris — Tuesday, August 22, 1995
Address:
C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\AUG\22\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-KENNETH-.DOC
TRIAL
▲ Day 140 of 167

Direct examination of Kenneth Berris

Witness: Kenneth Berris
Examiner: Johnnie Cochran
Called by: Defense • Date: Tuesday, August 22, 1995 • Utterances: 337
Chicago PD Detective Kenneth Berris testified about his investigation of room 915 at the O'Hare Plaza Hotel on June 13, 1994 — the morning after the murders. He described finding a broken drinking glass in the bathroom sink, a face cloth with suspected blood stains hidden beneath a hand towel on the vanity, and blood spots on the unmade bedding. The defense introduced six photographs (1331–1336) documenting the scene, establishing that OJ Simpson's Chicago hotel room contained physical evidence of blood the day after the killings.
1 THE COURT:

And, Mr. Cochran, you may call your next witness.

2 MR. COCHRAN:

Thank you very kindly. Good afternoon again. We will next be calling Detective Ken Berris to the stand. Detective Berris.

3 MR. BERRIS:

Good afternoon, Judge.

Kenneth Berris, called as a witness by the Defendant, was sworn and testified as follows:

4 THE CLERK:

Raise your right hand, please. You do solemnly swear that the testimony you may give in the cause now pending before this court, shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God.

5 MR. BERRIS:

I do.

6 THE CLERK:

Please have a seat in the witness stand and state and spell your first and last names for the record.

7 THE COURT:

All right. Why don't you pull the microphone closer to you. Thank you.

8 MR. BERRIS:

Yes. My name is Kenneth Berris. My last name is spelled B-E-R-R-I-S.

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. COCHRAN

9 MR. COCHRAN:

Good afternoon, Mr. Berris.

10 MR. BERRIS:

Good afternoon.

11 MR. COCHRAN:

And what is your occupation, sir?

12 MR. BERRIS:

I'm a detective assigned to area 5 detective division, Chicago Police Department.

13 MR. COCHRAN:

And how long have you been so employed, sir?

14 MR. BERRIS:

I've been a police officer over 26 years and a detective over 18 years.

15 MR. COCHRAN:

In that connection, have you come here today to be with us here in California to--pursuant to a subpoena issued by this court?

16 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir, I am.

17 MR. COCHRAN:

And you arrived in Los Angeles when?

18 MR. BERRIS:

Last night.

19 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. The first time you and I have had an occasion to talk was when?

20 MR. BERRIS:

Earlier today. This morning.

21 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. I'd like, sir, to direct your attention back to the date of Monday, June 13th of 1994. Do you recall that date?

22 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir, I do.

23 MR. COCHRAN:

At some time in the morning hours of June 13th, were you assigned some duties in connection with the O'Hare Plaza Hotel in Chicago, Illinois?

24 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, I was.

25 MR. COCHRAN:

Approximately what time did you get a call or were you assigned some particular duty?

26 MR. BERRIS:

At approximately 11:00 o'clock in the morning on that date, myself and Detective Anthony Bongiorno--if you'd like, I'll spell the last name.

27 MR. COCHRAN:

Would you spell that for us, please?

28 THE COURT:

Please.

29 MR. BERRIS:

Of course. B-o-n-g-I-o-r-n-o. He's also assigned to area 5 detective division where I am also assigned. We were assigned to go to the O'Hare Plaza Hotel by Sergeant Vernice Jones, a supervising sergeant in our unit.

30 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And thereafter, after you and Detective Bongiorno were assigned to this particular hotel, what time, if you recall, did you arrive at the O'Hare Plaza Hotel?

31 MR. BERRIS:

We arrived shortly after 12:00 noon.

32 MR. COCHRAN:

And is that--would I be correct in assuming that that hotel is near the airport in Chicago?

33 MR. BERRIS:

Yes. It's nearby.

34 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And when you arrived there at the hotel around 12:00 noon, did you have occasion to go and speak with a general manager at that hotel?

35 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, we did.

36 MR. COCHRAN:

Without telling us the conversation at that point, tell us the name of that general manager, sir?

37 MR. BERRIS:

Mr. Peter Phillips.

38 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And did you and your partner officer have occasion to talk to Peter Phillips?

39 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, we did.

40 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And how long did that conversation last, sir?

41 MR. BERRIS:

Oh, approximately half an hour.

42 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And during the course of that conversation, did you obtain some information about a room 915 in the O'Hare Plaza Hotel? You can answer that yes or no.

43 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, we did.

44 MR. COCHRAN:

And were you able to ascertain whether or not that room had been secured that morning prior to your arrival?

45 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, it had been.

46 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And after--thereafter, at some point, did you and your partner have occasion to go up to room 915?

47 MR. BERRIS:

Yes. Detective Bongiorno and I accompanied by Mr. Phillips went to room 915.

48 MR. COCHRAN:

And when you got there--did you have a key to that room?

49 MR. BERRIS:

Mr. Phillips had a key.

50 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And so would you describe for the jury what kind of a key did you have for that particular room?

51 MR. BERRIS:

It was a--what I might refer to as a card key. It's put into a slot. It's a card coded and it's put into a slot, and the code unlocks the door.

52 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And are those the kind of doors that have some kind of little computer in them?

53 MR. BERRIS:

Yes. I think that would be a fair description.

54 MR. COCHRAN:

Let me see if I can give a word picture. You slide the little card into it and a little green light comes on, you push the handle and the door opens up; is that right?

55 MR. BERRIS:

Yes.

56 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. So that's what happened with Mr. Phillips, correct?

57 MR. BERRIS:

Yes.

58 MR. COCHRAN:

And what time was that, that you did that?

59 MR. BERRIS:

I would approximate that to be between 1:30 and 1:45 in the afternoon.

60 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, with regard to that particular room, did you ever have occasion to check to see whether or not there was in fact a computer that would tell the number of times anyone had entered that room on June 13th, 1994?

61 MR. BERRIS:

I never determined anything like that, that there was such a computer as part of the locking device.

62 MR. COCHRAN:

Okay. At any rate, you gained entrance into there some time around 1:30 to 1:45?

63 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir.

64 MR. COCHRAN:

And who went inside that room, if anyone?

65 MR. BERRIS:

Myself, Detective Bongiorno and Mr. Phillips.

66 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. At that time, sir, did you have occasion to look around or look inside the room?

67 MR. BERRIS:

Yes. We visually inspected the room.

68 MR. COCHRAN:

Okay. And how long would you say you stayed in the room at that time?

69 MR. BERRIS:

Oh, approximately 20 minutes or so.

70 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Did you pick anything up at that time at all?

71 MR. BERRIS:

No.

72 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. You just had a visual observation of the room; is that correct?

73 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir.

74 MR. COCHRAN:

And would I be correct in assuming that there was no one in that room at that point?

75 MR. BERRIS:

No. When we arrived, there was nobody in the room.

76 MR. COCHRAN:

And with regard to the bed in the room, did the bed appear as though someone had slept in that bed the night before?

77 MR. BERRIS:

Yes. The bed wasn't made. The covers were tossed back as if someone had been sleeping in the bed.

KEY QUOTE
78 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And so the--the bed hadn't been made by the maids at that point, is that correct, sir, the best you could tell?

79 MR. BERRIS:

I'm sorry. I don't--

80 MR. COCHRAN:

I said, the bed had not been made by--

81 MR. BERRIS:

Oh, it had not been made. Yes, that's correct.

82 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Now, you said--you told us that you stayed in there approximately a half hour. And then did there come a time when you then left and went someplace else to make a phone call?

83 MR. BERRIS:

Yes. The three of us, myself, Detective Bongiorno and Mr. Phillips left the room or mini suite of rooms, if you will. We--the room was secured and locked, and we then went to Mr. Phillips' office where I called the--our crime lab, which is called police department crime lab, and requested crime lab technicians to come to that location.

84 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And about what time was this now, sir?

85 MR. BERRIS:

I made that call between 2:00 and 2:15 I would estimate.

86 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And you requested some crime lab technicians?

87 MR. BERRIS:

Yes.

88 MR. COCHRAN:

And did there come a time when the crime lab technicians arrived at the hotel?

89 MR. BERRIS:

Yes.

90 MR. COCHRAN:

And approximately what time was that?

91 MR. BERRIS:

3:00 o'clock in the afternoon.

92 MR. COCHRAN:

So by 3:00 o'clock then on June 13th, 1994, the crime lab technicians arrived. And tell the jury their names, sir, please?

93 MR. BERRIS:

Uh, crime lab technicians John Stella, S-T-E-L-L-A, and crime lab technician John Naujokas, N-A-U-J-O-K-A-S, they responded to that location.

94 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And who went back up to room 915, if anyone, at that point?

95 MR. BERRIS:

Uh, myself, Detective Bongiorno, the two crime lab technicians and Mr. Phillips.

96 MR. COCHRAN:

All right, sir. Now, I want you to just describe generally for the jury in brief fashion how this room was laid out, the hotel room. Can you do that for us?

97 MR. BERRIS:

Yes. Room 915 could be described as actually a mini suite of rooms, if you will. It consists of a living-dining area combination. And after passing through a doorway, you would be in the bedroom of the suite, and then passing through another doorway, you would be in the bathroom of the suite.

98 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. The first time when you were there with Mr. Phillips, did you ever go in the bedroom the first time?

99 MR. BERRIS:

Oh, yes. We had gone into all the rooms.

100 MR. COCHRAN:

And the bathroom also; is that right?

101 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir.

102 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. When you went back this second time with Naujokas and Stella, the criminalists, was Mr. Phillips accompanying you at that point?

103 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, he was. However, he did stay in the living-dining area with Detective Bongiorno.

104 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. So there were like five of you; is that correct?

105 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir.

106 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And when you went back in--you described for the jury this particular room--at some point, you--and I think you described for us the bed appeared as though it was unmade still; is that correct?

107 MR. BERRIS:

Yes.

108 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And then you had occasion, did you not, to go into the bathroom area of that suite of rooms; is that correct?

109 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir.

110 MR. COCHRAN:

And in that bathroom area, did you have occasion to see--

111 MR. DARDEN:

Objection. Leading.

112 THE COURT:

Sustained.

113 MR. COCHRAN:

Let me seek to rephrase that, your Honor.

114 MR. COCHRAN:

Okay. In the bathroom area, can you describe for the jury what, if anything, you saw in the sink of the bathroom area there of suite 915?

115 MR. BERRIS:

In the basin of the sink was a broken drinking glass. It was a clear--clear glass that was broken and in the base of the sink along with a paper doily that--those are usually on top of the glass when they're in the room.

116 MR. COCHRAN:

Okay. And this glass was inside--in the sink in the basin area, right?

117 MR. BERRIS:

In the basin.

118 MR. COCHRAN:

Did you see any other remnants or shards of this glass on the so-called vanity area in and around the sink?

119 MR. BERRIS:

Yes. There were--there were at different locations along the vanity several small--and I'll describe them as chips because they were very small--of broken glass.

120 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And now, what about towels? Did you see any large towels in this same general area near the sink, basin area?

121 MR. BERRIS:

Yes. On top of the vanity directly to the right of the wash basin was a towel that was not folded. It appeared to have been used. It was wrinkled and left on top of the vanity to the right of the basin.

122 MR. COCHRAN:

And did you have occasion to lift that towel up at some point?

123 MR. BERRIS:

I didn't.

124 MR. COCHRAN:

Did the technicians lift that towel up at some point?

125 MR. BERRIS:

Yes. When--in the course of their processing that scene.

126 MR. COCHRAN:

And when the towel was lifted up, did you have occasion to see another a washcloth or a face cloth?

127 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, I did.

128 MR. COCHRAN:

And describe for the jury what you saw with regard to this washcloth or face cloth.

129 MR. BERRIS:

Uh, that washcloth had reddish--a reddish stain on it which I suspected to be blood.

KEY QUOTE
130 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And you saw--describe for us how you saw that washcloth or face cloth.

131 MR. BERRIS:

Uh, it was--well, it was underneath the towel is the best I could describe it to the right of the sink bowl. When I initially had gone into the bathroom, I didn't see it since the towel was on top of it concealing it from view.

KEY QUOTE
132 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. So would I be correct that, Detective Berris, you couldn't see the smaller face cloth until the towel was lifted up by the technicians? Is that correct?

133 MR. BERRIS:

That's correct.

134 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Now, with regard to the things you just described for our jury, were there photographs taken of that bathroom area and the sink area which might be illustrative of what you just talked about?

135 MR. BERRIS:

Yes. There were photographs taken of the entire mini suite.

136 MR. COCHRAN:

Thank you. I want to show you--

137 (Brief pause.)
138 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, I would like to--I've shown these to counsel. I'd like to show the witness a couple of these if I might, and then I'll put them on the elmo if I might.

139 THE COURT:

Proceed.

140 MR. COCHRAN:

I'm going to show you what's first been marked--I think we've marked these starting with 1331. Let's see.

141 (Deft's 1331 for id = photograph)
142 MR. COCHRAN:

I want to place before you several photographs--Mr. Darden has seen these. I want to place before you Defendant's 1331, and I want you to describe what's depicted in 1331, sir.

143 MR. BERRIS:

That is a photograph of the washcloth with the red stain on it which was suspect blood that was found to the right of the wash basin in the bathroom of that mini suite of rooms.

144 MR. COCHRAN:

And is that a fair and accurate portrayal of the way that--that washcloth appeared after it was removed--after the towel on top of it was removed?

145 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir.

146 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Your Honor, I would like to place this on the elmo if I might.

147 THE COURT:

You may.

148 MR. COCHRAN:

I'll place the others before him also.

149 THE COURT:

All right. This is 1331.

150 MR. COCHRAN:

This is 1331, your Honor. Thank you. And I'd like also to have Mr. Harris--I believe we've blown up 1331. We have 1331-A also.

151 (Deft's 1331-A for id = photograph)
152 THE COURT:

I think we need to clear the power point there.

153 MR. DARDEN:

There's a 352 objection to both, your Honor.

154 THE COURT:

It'll be overruled.

155 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, while Mr. Harris is moving 1331-A in position, that's the way that particular face cloth looked after the towel that had been on top of it had been moved; is that correct, sir?

156 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir.

157 MR. COCHRAN:

And you've seen 1331-A also, have you not, the large photograph of that?

158 MR. BERRIS:

Are we still speaking of the washcloth, Mr. Cochran?

159 MR. COCHRAN:

Yes, the washcloth. Have you seen this 1331-A?

160 MR. BERRIS:

Oh, the large poster, yes. Yes, I have.

161 MR. COCHRAN:

And 1331-A is a blow-up of the photograph on the elmo; is that correct, sir?

162 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir.

163 MR. COCHRAN:

All right.

164 MR. COCHRAN:

If I might now, your Honor--

165 MR. COCHRAN:

I would like to ask you in turn about the other photographs. Will you look at 1332 and tell us what's depicted in 1332.

166 (Deft's 1332 for id = photograph)
167 MR. BERRIS:

In that photograph, it's a photograph of the wash basin and vanity of the bathroom in room 915, and you--it depicts in the basin the broken drinking glass and white doily cover, and atop the vanity to the right is the wrinkled towel which was there upon our inspection.

168 MR. COCHRAN:

And is that the towel you described for us earlier that had the--that had the--that covered the face cloth?

169 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir.

170 MR. COCHRAN:

All right.

171 MR. COCHRAN:

I'll place this on the elmo, your Honor. It's 1332, your Honor.

172 MR. COCHRAN:

So 1332 is a fair and accurate portrayal of the way the towel, the large towel looked while it covered the smaller face cloth depicted in Defendant's 1331; is that correct?

173 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir.

174 THE COURT:

Would it be better to describe that as a hand towel? Doesn't appear to be a bath towel size.

175 MR. COCHRAN:

You're talking about the larger?

176 THE COURT:

Yes.

177 MR. COCHRAN:

I think that's fine, your Honor.

178 MR. COCHRAN:

Would we call that a hand towel then?

179 MR. BERRIS:

I was just referring to it as a towel myself.

180 MR. COCHRAN:

If the Judge says call it a hand towel, I think generally we'll call it a hand towel. Let's call it a hand towel.

181 MR. BERRIS:

I agree.

182 THE COURT:

Well, they give you three kinds of towels in a hotel. They give you wash cloths, hand towels and bath towel. These are experts on hotel towels.

KEY QUOTE
183 MR. COCHRAN:

And apparently so are you. So I'll go along with you.

184 THE COURT:

And they know about those locks too.

185 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Thanks, Judge.

186 MR. COCHRAN:

Okay. With regard to that, let's move quickly through this then. The hand towel was covering the face cloth; is that right?

187 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir.

188 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And to the left of that is the glass you've described, the broken glass that's in the wash basin; is that correct?

189 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, it is.

190 MR. COCHRAN:

I want to put 1331 back up for just a moment and ask you a question. You had mentioned there were some chips of glass, and I want you to look at 1331 and point out to us, if you can, the--whether you can see some--a chip of glass to the left of--upper left of this particular face cloth.

191 MR. BERRIS:

Yes. That's one of the chips of glass tat was on top of the vanity, yes.

192 MR. COCHRAN:

And you described that for us earlier?

193 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir.

194 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And that was--that's basically to the left and above the foot of the basin; is that correct?

195 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir.

196 MR. COCHRAN:

Okay. And moving along then, with regard to 1333, what's depicted in 1333?

197 (Deft's 1333 for id = photograph)
198 MR. BERRIS:

That is a photograph of the wash basin in the bathroom of room 915 with the broken drinking glass inside the basin with the white doily cover.

199 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Is the doily--and the doily's fairly well depicted in there, 1333?

200 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir.

201 MR. COCHRAN:

Put this up quickly, your Honor.

202 MR. COCHRAN:

And in 1333, you can see the doily mixed in with the broken glass; isn't that correct?

203 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, you can.

204 MR. COCHRAN:

And in the bottom of that glass, does there appear to be something, some kind of white substance or something in the bottom of the broken part of the glass?

205 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, there was. A cloud--I'll describe it as a clouded liquid. Not a clear liquid, but a clouded liquid.

206 MR. COCHRAN:

Very little liquid in there?

207 MR. BERRIS:

Very little though. Very little.

208 MR. COCHRAN:

And that's depicted in 1333?

209 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir.

210 MR. COCHRAN:

All right, sir. Moving along to 1334 and 1335, you previously described the bedding. Tell us what's depicted in 1334.

211 (Deft's 1334 and 1335 for id = photographs)
212 MR. BERRIS:

That is a photograph of a bedding--I'm not sure whether it's the top or bottom sheet that I see before me here in the photograph. However, that is the bedding in the room of 915.

213 MR. COCHRAN:

And is there a spot of some kind, a red spot on the bed?

214 MR. BERRIS:

Yes. There was a red spot, which is suspect blood on--which is photographed here.

215 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And in looking at 1335, what is depicted there?

216 MR. BERRIS:

It's another photograph of the bedding for that room, and that--there's also depicted a red stain, which was suspect blood.

217 MR. COCHRAN:

All right.

218 MR. COCHRAN:

So I'll just show these quickly to the jury, if I might. This is 1334, your Honor.

219 MR. COCHRAN:

The red spot is the red spot you just described for us; is that correct?

220 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir.

221 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And let's take a look at 1335. All right. And that was also a spot, red spot on the bed; is that correct?

222 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir.

223 MR. COCHRAN:

If I were to look at 1331-A and wanted to look--can you see this? Is this the fragment of glass that was depicted in the smaller photograph?

224 THE COURT:

Mr. Cochran, the photograph that's on the elmo does not correspond to the exhibit.

225 MR. COCHRAN:

No. No, it doesn't. I was moving to another subject, your Honor. Thank you. You can take that down, Mr. Harris. Thank you, your Honor.

226 THE COURT:

No. I'm saying, the witness can't see what you're pointing at.

227 MR. COCHRAN:

Okay.

228 MR. BERRIS:

I can step down if it's--

229 MR. COCHRAN:

May he step down, your Honor? Thank you, your Honor.

230 MR. COCHRAN:

I just wanted to ask one quick question about--. Looking at 1331-A, can you point out for the jury where this area of fragment of glass is located on that?

231 MR. BERRIS:

It would be right here (Indicating).

232 MR. COCHRAN:

In the upper left-hand corner?

233 MR. BERRIS:

Yes.

234 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. All right, sir. You may resume the stand. Now, approximately how long did you and Detective Bongiorno and the other two criminalists remain in room 915 the second time that you went there?

235 MR. BERRIS:

Oh, we were there quite a long time. I'd say we left, oh, a couple of hours later, perhaps 5:00 o'clock. I'd be estimating though, Mr. Cochran.

236 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. So you were there for a couple hours at least; is that correct?

237 MR. BERRIS:

Yes.

238 MR. COCHRAN:

And one other question. With regard to this kind of white substance in the bottom of that glass, did it appear to you that could have come from someone brushing their teeth and--

239 MR. DARDEN:

Objection. That's calls for speculation.

240 THE COURT:

Sustained.

241 MR. COCHRAN:

May I finish the question?

242 THE COURT:

Sustained. Leading.

243 MR. COCHRAN:

Even before you heard it?

244 THE COURT:

It's leading.

245 MR. COCHRAN:

Thank you, your Honor.

246 THE COURT:

Did it appear that it was.

247 MR. COCHRAN:

That was enough for you?

248 THE COURT:

That's leading.

249 MR. COCHRAN:

Okay. Good.

250 MR. COCHRAN:

During the time that you were in that room, did you ever have occasion to check the sink trap for anything that may have been washed down that particular drain at all?

251 MR. BERRIS:

No, we did not.

252 MR. COCHRAN:

In the course of your investigation, that didn't happen?

253 MR. BERRIS:

No, sir.

254 MR. COCHRAN:

Is that correct? Now, with regard to the items that were in that room that we've just seen, the broken glass, the towel, the bedding, the pen, did the criminalists, Stella and Naujokas, in some way take those items into their possession, the Chicago Police Department?

255 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, they did.

256 MR. COCHRAN:

And were you there when this took place?

257 MR. BERRIS:

Yes.

258 MR. COCHRAN:

And thereafter, where did they take these particular items? They took them from room 915 to some location; is that correct?

259 MR. BERRIS:

Yes. Uh, they took them--

260 MR. DARDEN:

Objection. Calls for speculation.

261 THE COURT:

Overruled.

262 MR. BERRIS:

They took them--

263 MR. COCHRAN:

You may answer.

264 MR. BERRIS:

I'm sorry. They took them from this scene to the police--Chicago police crime laboratory at the Chicago police headquarters.

265 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And were they booked there for--and held there until the arrival of some members of the Los Angeles Police Department?

266 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir.

267 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. This was done--they were taken on the 13th I presume in the evening hours to the Chicago Police Department; is that correct?

268 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir.

269 MR. COCHRAN:

Do you know at some point thereafter, did a Detective Luper and a Detective le Fall from the Los Angeles Police Department come to Chicago in connection with their investigation of this case?

270 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir, they did.

271 MR. COCHRAN:

Do you know at what point or which date Detective Luper took possession of the items recovered by you and the criminalists in room 915?

272 MR. BERRIS:

Offhand, I can't recall the exact date that they took custody of the items.

273 MR. COCHRAN:

It would be sometime after the 13th obviously?

274 MR. BERRIS:

Oh, yes. Perhaps was Friday. That sort of sticks in my mind, but I can't be sure.

275 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Possibly Friday the 17th?

276 MR. BERRIS:

Possibly Friday.

277 MR. COCHRAN:

And prior to the time they took custody of these times, they had been held in the custody and control of the Chicago Police Department, right?

278 MR. BERRIS:

Yes.

279 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And since you've been in California for this short period of time, have you had occasion to see the box that purportedly contains these items?

280 MR. BERRIS:

I was informed that that box contains some of the--or the items from the room 915.

281 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And what we've shown the jury are photographs of those items that had been in that particular room; is that correct?

282 MR. BERRIS:

The items depicted in the photographs?

283 MR. COCHRAN:

Yes.

284 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir.

285 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Now, with regard to that particular room--and so we're clear, the broken glass fragments were all picked up and brought also; is that correct? They were retained as best you could?

286 MR. BERRIS:

As best I recall, yes, I believe they were taken also.

287 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Now, with regard to that particular room, if you recall, the other bedding or anything that you didn't see that had any discoloration on it, I presume you left that intact; is that correct?

288 MR. BERRIS:

Things that didn't manifest anything that was a suspect stain or--is that what you mean, Mr. Cochran?

289 MR. COCHRAN:

Yes.

290 MR. BERRIS:

No. That would not have been taken.

291 MR. COCHRAN:

You only took things that may have had some stain and the broken glass, et cetera; is that correct?

292 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir.

293 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Were you able to--did you look around the room, did you see whether or not there were any laundry bags at all in that room?

294 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, we did look around.

295 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Did you see any laundry bags?

296 MR. BERRIS:

No, sir.

297 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And the photographs which we've shown our jury here were photographs that were taken out of the direction of the Chicago Police Department; is that correct?

298 MR. BERRIS:

Yes. They were taken by crime lab technicians Stella and Naujokas on that date.

299 MR. COCHRAN:

The people who actually took the things, and they were taken on June 13th of 1994; is that right?

300 MR. BERRIS:

1994. Yes, sir.

301 MR. COCHRAN:

May I just have a second, your Honor? Thank you.

302 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)
303 MR. COCHRAN:

Can I have--there's one other photograph I'd like to have marked. I'm sorry.

304 THE COURT:

Have you shown that to Mr. Darden?

305 MR. COCHRAN:

He's seen these, but I'd be glad to show it to him.

306 THE COURT:

Mark that 1336.

307 MR. COCHRAN:

1336, your Honor.

308 (Deft's 1336 for id = photograph)
309 MR. COCHRAN:

And I would like to approach the witness, your Honor.

310 THE COURT:

You may.

311 MR. COCHRAN:

I want to place before you a photograph that's Defendant's 1336 and ask you to describe for the jury what is depicted in that photograph, sir.

312 MR. BERRIS:

It is a photograph of the bedroom area of room 915 that shows the bed in that suite of rooms with the covers--how I've described tossed back, the bed being unmade as if it had been slept in.

313 MR. COCHRAN:

And that's the--that's the way you observed that bed on June 13th, the time you were in there in the afternoon hours; is that correct, sir?

314 MR. BERRIS:

Yes.

315 MR. COCHRAN:

And I notice to the left of the bed and area of the bedding there, there's a phone. Is that the way that phone was there?

316 MR. BERRIS:

Yes.

317 MR. COCHRAN:

And with regard to that phone, do you recall whether or not you ever had that phone fingerprinted?

318 MR. BERRIS:

Yes. I made a request for fingerprints to be taken.

319 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. You did that yourself?

320 MR. BERRIS:

Yeah, I made that request to the crime lab technicians Stella and Naujokas.

321 MR. COCHRAN:

Did they dust it for prints?

322 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, they did.

323 MR. COCHRAN:

Did you ever make a check of the phone calls, if any, made from that phone?

324 MR. BERRIS:

Uh, there was a record of the calls made from the telephone, yes.

325 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Now, this--

326 MR. COCHRAN:

If I might place this on the elmo, your Honor.

327 THE COURT:

Yes.

328 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, that is--there's a glare. That is a fair and accurate portrayal of how that unmade bed appeared when you were there on June 13th, the afternoon hours?

329 MR. BERRIS:

Yes.

330 MR. COCHRAN:

And the phone is in the upper right-hand corner of that photograph; is that correct?

331 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, it is.

332 MR. COCHRAN:

And the bedding we see on that bed where you saw those red spots, that was--the bedding was still on the bed at that point and was subsequently taken and we have photographs of that; is that correct?

333 MR. BERRIS:

Yes. That would be the same bedding, and that was taken by the technicians.

334 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And you've come to California last night pursuant to a subpoena to testify; is that correct?

335 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir.

336 MR. COCHRAN:

I have nothing further of this witness at this point, your Honor.

337 THE COURT:

Thank you, Mr. Cochran. Mr. Darden.

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Kenneth Berris
That washcloth had reddish--a reddish stain on it which I suspected to be blood.
Core evidence of the examination — a blood-stained cloth hidden under a hand towel in Simpson's Chicago hotel bathroom, suggesting concealment.
Kenneth Berris
It was underneath the towel is the best I could describe it to the right of the sink bowl. When I initially had gone into the bathroom, I didn't see it since the towel was on top of it concealing it from view.
Establishes that the bloody washcloth was hidden beneath another towel, implying deliberate concealment of injury evidence.
Kenneth Berris
The bed wasn't made. The covers were tossed back as if someone had been sleeping in the bed.
Confirms Simpson occupied and slept in the room the night of June 12–13, establishing his presence in Chicago.
Lance A. Ito
Well, they give you three kinds of towels in a hotel. They give you wash cloths, hand towels and bath towel. These are experts on hotel towels.
Judge Ito interjects with an unexpected (and somewhat playful) correction on hotel towel taxonomy, providing one of the few light moments.

Evidence (8)

Defendant's 1331
Photograph of bloodstained washcloth found under hand towel on vanity, right of sink basin, room 915
introduced and displayed on ELMO
Defendant's 1331-A
Enlarged blow-up poster of Defendant's 1331 showing washcloth and glass chip
introduced, witness stepped down to point out glass fragment location
Defendant's 1332
Photograph of sink basin and vanity showing broken drinking glass, white doily, and hand towel covering the washcloth
introduced and displayed on ELMO
Defendant's 1333
Photograph of wash basin with broken drinking glass and paper doily, cloudy liquid visible in glass remnants
introduced and displayed on ELMO
Defendant's 1334
Photograph of bedding in room 915 showing red (suspected blood) spot on sheet
introduced and displayed on ELMO
Defendant's 1335
Second photograph of bedding in room 915 showing additional red (suspected blood) stain
introduced and displayed on ELMO
+ 2 more

Notable Exchanges (3)

Johnnie CochranLance A. Ito
Cochran began asking whether the cloudy substance in the broken glass could have come from someone brushing their teeth. Darden objected for speculation; Ito sustained before Cochran finished the question. Cochran protested 'Even before you heard it?' and Ito confirmed 'It's leading' — a brief, mildly testy exchange.
mildly tense, with dark humor
Lance A. ItoJohnnie CochranKenneth Berris
Judge Ito interjected to reclassify the 'towel' as a 'hand towel,' delivering an impromptu lecture on the three types of hotel towels. Cochran deferred cheerfully; Ito added 'And they know about those locks too,' referencing the earlier card-key discussion.
light, collegial
Johnnie CochranKenneth Berris
Cochran confirmed that the sink trap was never checked for materials that might have been washed down the drain — a subtle suggestion the scene may not have been fully processed.
strategic

Light Moments (3)

Lance A. Ito
Judge Ito corrected Cochran on hotel towel terminology and launched into an explanation of washcloths vs. hand towels vs. bath towels: 'These are experts on hotel towels.'
Johnnie Cochran
Cochran responded to Ito's towel expertise: 'And apparently so are you. So I'll go along with you.' Ito then added 'And they know about those locks too,' referring to the card-key testimony.
Johnnie Cochran
After Ito sustained the speculation objection before Cochran finished his question, Cochran deadpanned: 'Even before you heard it?' Ito: 'It's leading.'

Witness Demeanor

(Brief pause) — during exhibit handling between counsel
(Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel)
(Indicating) — witness stepped down from stand and physically pointed to glass fragment on enlarged photograph 1331-A

Objections

5 objections (3 sustained, 2 overruled)
Proceeding 7408 • 337 utterances • Defense witness
Criminal Trial
Department 103
⚖️ Start
📂 AUG 22, 1995 📄 Direct examination of Kenneth
AUG 22, 1995 KRT DvH TD