Cross-examination of Kenneth Berris

📄 Cross-examination of Kenneth Berris — Tuesday, August 22, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\AUG\22\CROSS-EXAMINATION-OF-KENNETH-B.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 140 of 167

◀ Direct examination of Kenneth Berris Redirect examination of Kenneth Berris ▶

Witness: Kenneth Berris
Examiner: Christopher Darden
Called by: Defense • Date: Tuesday, August 22, 1995 • Utterances: 233

Darden cross-examines Chicago detective Berris about the hotel room where OJ Simpson stayed on the night of the murders. Darden methodically establishes that despite the broken glass and blood found, there were no blood drops anywhere in the room — only stains on the sheets and a neatly folded washcloth — and that two laundry bags from the room were never recovered and remain unaccounted for.

# 1 MR. DARDEN:

Your Honor, while 1336 is up there.

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. DARDEN

# 2 MR. DARDEN:

Detective, could you indicate for us the approximate locations that you saw bloodstains on the top and bottom sheet, if you would direct the arrow which is about to appear?

# 3 MR. BERRIS:

You mean from this--from the photograph that's here (Indicating)?

# 4 MR. DARDEN:

Yes. Or can you?

# 5 MR. BERRIS:

Not from this photograph I can't.

# 6 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Okay. That's fine. Thank you.

# 7 MR. DARDEN:

You can take it off.

# 8 MR. DARDEN:

Now, you were shown a series of photographs by Mr. Cochran?

# 9 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir.

# 10 MR. DARDEN:

You were shown some photographs of the broken glass at the scene?

# 11 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir.

# 12 MR. DARDEN:

Let me put 1333 up on the elmo.

# 13 (Brief pause.)

# 14 MR. DARDEN:

Could you point out the blood on the glass?

# 15 MR. BERRIS:

I observed no blood on the glass.

# 16 MR. DARDEN:

There was no blood on the glass, detective?

# 17 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to the form of that question, your Honor. Asked and answered.

# 18 THE COURT:

Sustained. It's argumentative the way it's phrased.

# 19 MR. DARDEN:

Did you look at the glass?

# 20 MR. BERRIS:

Oh, I visually inspected it, yes, sir.

# 21 MR. DARDEN:

Did you visually inspect it to see if there was blood on it?

# 22 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir.

# 23 MR. DARDEN:

The glass is clear, correct?

# 24 MR. BERRIS:

Yes.

# 25 MR. COCHRAN:

Objected to, your Honor. Asked and answered.

# 26 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 27 MR. DARDEN:

You saw no blood nowhere, no place--

# 28 MR. COCHRAN:

Asked and answered.

# 29 MR. DARDEN:

--on that glass.

# 30 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 31 MR. DARDEN:

Is that correct?

# 32 MR. BERRIS:

I observed no blood on the glass, sir.

# 33 MR. DARDEN:

Now, you also described a moment ago for Mr. Cochran that you saw shards and pieces of glass on the basin, is that correct, around the wash basin?

# 34 MR. BERRIS:

Yes. There was broken pieces of glass in the wash basin along with the base of the drinking glass.

# 35 MR. DARDEN:

Okay.

# 36 MR. BERRIS:

Along with the white doily cover that often covers these type of glasses.

# 37 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Did you see any blood on those pieces of glass, the pieces of glass that you saw inside the wash basin?

# 38 MR. BERRIS:

No, sir.

# 39 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And you saw pieces of glass around the basin?

# 40 MR. BERRIS:

On top of the vanity?

# 41 MR. DARDEN:

Yes.

# 42 MR. BERRIS:

I observed at different locations small--as I described before, small chips of glass at different spots along the vanity, top of the vanity.

# 43 MR. DARDEN:

And on how many pieces of small chips of glass located on top of the vanity did you see a red stain consistent with blood?

# 44 MR. BERRIS:

I didn't observe any red stains or suspect blood on any.

# 45 MR. DARDEN:

Now, did you see chips of glass on both sides of the vanity?

# 46 MR. BERRIS:

Uh, the small chips of glass?

# 47 MR. DARDEN:

Yeah.

# 48 MR. BERRIS:

I believe there were--I believe they were on both sides. I remember specifically I saw--on the right-hand side, I can remember two spots that I saw and I think there were some on the left also.

# 49 MR. DARDEN:

Now, you don't know how that glass got broken, do you?

# 50 MR. BERRIS:

No, sir.

# 51 MR. DARDEN:

You don't know who broke that glass?

# 52 MR. BERRIS:

No, sir.

# 53 MR. DARDEN:

You don't know why that glass was broken?

# 54 MR. COCHRAN:

I object to the form of that question. This is irrelevant.

# 55 THE COURT:

Sustained, the way it's phrased.

# 56 MR. DARDEN:

You saw a red stain on a washcloth; is that correct?

# 57 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir.

# 58 MR. DARDEN:

1331.

# 59 MR. DARDEN:

And that's the washcloth you found?

# 60 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir.

# 61 MR. DARDEN:

It was underneath the towel?

# 62 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, it was underneath.

# 63 MR. DARDEN:

And was it folded neatly as it is in the photograph here (Indicating)?

# 64 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, it was.

# 65 MR. DARDEN:

Do you see any blood spots on that towel?

# 66 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to the form of the question.

# 67 MR. BERRIS:

I'm sorry?

# 68 THE COURT:

Do you see any spots?

# 69 MR. BERRIS:

On the--on this washcloth? No. Just the stain and--actual spots? No. Just the stains as they appeared on the washcloth here (Indicating).

# 70 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. So you don't see any drops of blood on that washcloth, do you?

# 71 MR. BERRIS:

No, sir.

# 72 MR. DARDEN:

Now, do you see the little mark on the--at the edge of the wash basin to the upper left-hand portion of the photograph?

# 73 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir.

# 74 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. That's not a stain you consider consistent with blood, right? That's just discoloration on the wash basin?

# 75 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, I object. Excessively leading.

# 76 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 77 MR. BERRIS:

It gave me an impression of a nicotine stain as if someone had at some time--

# 78 MR. COCHRAN:

I object. Speculative, your Honor.

# 79 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 80 MR. BERRIS:

--that possibly at some time, someone had laid a cigarette, a lit cigarette on the edge of the wash basin and the nicotine had stained the edge of the Formica.

# 81 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Now, you say you entered the room at approximately 12:00 o'clock Chicago time, right?

# 82 MR. BERRIS:

Uh, entered the room? Would be approximately between 1:30 and 1:45 in the afternoon Chicago time. We arrived at the hotel shortly after 12:00 noon.

# 83 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Now, did you know at the time that the Defendant had a cut on his left hand?

# 84 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, object to the form of that question. Beyond the scope.

# 85 THE COURT:

Overruled. Overruled.

# 86 MR. BERRIS:

I don't recall having any knowledge such as that.

# 87 MR. DARDEN:

And with regard to the stain depicted in the photograph here on the elmo--

# 88 MR. BERRIS:

I beg your pardon, Mr. Darden. I might have misunderstood you. Could you ask me that question again? I'm sorry.

# 89 MR. DARDEN:

When you entered the room that afternoon--

# 90 MR. BERRIS:

Yes.

# 91 MR. DARDEN:

--were you aware at that time that the Defendant had a cut on his left hand, middle finger?

# 92 MR. COCHRAN:

I object again, your Honor.

# 93 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 94 MR. BERRIS:

Yes. We had been informed--

# 95 MR. COCHRAN:

I object. Object to what he was informed, your Honor.

# 96 THE COURT:

Just, detective, were you aware of that?

# 97 MR. BERRIS:

Yes.

# 98 THE COURT:

Next question.

# 99 MR. DARDEN:

And Chicago time is two hours ahead of us here in L.A.; is that right?

# 100 MR. BERRIS:

Chicago time would be two hours behind.

# 101 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Two hours behind?

# 102 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir.

# 103 MR. DARDEN:

Is that right?

# 104 THE COURT:

Depends on how you look at it.

KEY QUOTE

# 105 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. If it's 1:00 o'clock in the afternoon here in L.A., what time is it in Chicago?

# 106 MR. BERRIS:

It would be 11:00 o'clock or would it be?

# 107 MR. DARDEN:

You got jet lag, detective?

KEY QUOTE

# 108 MR. BERRIS:

Oh, I beg your pardon. I'm sorry. It would be--it would be later. It would be later there. If it's 1:00 o'clock here, it would be 3:00 o'clock there.

# 109 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Thank you. Now, the stain that you see here on the washcloth, you don't know if that stain was caused by a cut the Defendant suffered here in Los Angeles, do you?

# 110 MR. COCHRAN:

I object. That calls for speculation, your Honor.

# 111 THE COURT:

Sustained. Sustained.

# 112 MR. DARDEN:

Well, by looking at that washcloth and the stain on the washcloth, can you tell us the exact time at which the injury was suffered that resulted in that stain?

# 113 MR. COCHRAN:

I object to the form of that question, your Honor.

# 114 THE COURT:

Overruled. Hold on. Were you able to determine when that stain occurred on the washcloth?

# 115 MR. BERRIS:

No, sir.

# 116 THE COURT:

Next question.

# 117 MR. DARDEN:

And when you entered the room, you enter into a living room area?

# 118 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir.

# 119 MR. DARDEN:

There's a sofa?

# 120 MR. BERRIS:

Yes.

# 121 MR. DARDEN:

And a dining table?

# 122 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir.

# 123 MR. DARDEN:

Is there a television set in that room?

# 124 MR. BERRIS:

I believe there was a television set in the dining area or living area, living-dining area if you will.

# 125 MR. DARDEN:

And the living-dining area was neat for the most part; is that correct?

# 126 MR. BERRIS:

Oh, yes.

# 127 MR. DARDEN:

No furniture turned over?

# 128 MR. BERRIS:

No.

# 129 MR. DARDEN:

No indication that anyone had had a temper tantrum or anything of sorts?

# 130 MR. COCHRAN:

Objection. Calls for speculation.

# 131 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 132 MR. BERRIS:

It was in neat condition.

# 133 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And then you entered into the bedroom; is that right?

# 134 MR. BERRIS:

Yes.

# 135 MR. DARDEN:

The bed was pulled back, that is the covering was pulled back?

# 136 MR. BERRIS:

Yes.

# 137 MR. DARDEN:

As if someone had been sleeping in the bed, correct?

# 138 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir.

# 139 MR. DARDEN:

And you saw bloodstains on the sheet; is that right?

# 140 MR. BERRIS:

Yes. On the bedding.

# 141 MR. DARDEN:

The top sheet and the bottom sheet?

# 142 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir.

# 143 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And you didn't find--strike that. The bloodstains you saw on the sheets were located toward the middle center of the bed as opposed to the top of the bed near the headboard; is that correct?

# 144 MR. BERRIS:

Yes. It would be toward the center.

# 145 MR. DARDEN:

And a location consistent with someone who had a cut on their hand having slept in the bed; is that correct?

# 146 MR. COCHRAN:

Objection. Calls for speculation, your Honor.

# 147 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 148 MR. DARDEN:

When Mr. Cochran asked you questions, you told us that you have to use a card key to enter the room?

# 149 MR. BERRIS:

Yes. As means of entry.

# 150 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And you didn't check to see whether or not that card key mechanism recorded the time, the time of entry; is that right?

# 151 MR. BERRIS:

No. No, I did not check that.

# 152 MR. DARDEN:

Do you know that the LAPD did?

# 153 MR. BERRIS:

No, I don't know whether they did or not.

# 154 MR. DARDEN:

You also told, also in response to Mr. Cochran's questions, that the room was absent or missing two laundry bags; is that correct?

# 155 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir.

# 156 MR. DARDEN:

Now, did you attempt to determine whether or not laundry bags had been in the room immediately prior to the Defendant's checking into the room?

# 157 MR. COCHRAN:

Objection, your Honor. Hearsay.

# 158 THE COURT:

Overruled. If he attempted to determine, it's not hearsay.

# 159 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, I did.

# 160 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And did you make that determination? Yes or no?

# 161 MR. COCHRAN:

I object. Objection to the form of that question. Hearsay.

# 162 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 163 MR. BERRIS:

I received information.

# 164 MR. COCHRAN:

Objection. It's hearsay.

# 165 THE COURT:

No. He received information is not hearsay. It's an appropriate answer. Next question.

# 166 MR. DARDEN:

So you did make that determination?

# 167 MR. BERRIS:

Yes.

# 168 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Did you search for the bags?

# 169 MR. BERRIS:

Yes.

# 170 MR. DARDEN:

Were you able to locate the laundry bags inside the room?

# 171 MR. BERRIS:

No, sir.

# 172 MR. DARDEN:

Do you know what happened to those laundry bags?

# 173 MR. BERRIS:

No, sir.

# 174 MR. DARDEN:

Those bags remain outstanding even today; is that correct?

# 175 MR. BERRIS:

They're unaccounted for.

KEY QUOTE

# 176 MR. DARDEN:

Can I have one moment, your Honor? I just need a few more minutes.

# 177 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

# 178 MR. DARDEN:

You also recovered a newspaper on the bed; is that right?

# 179 MR. BERRIS:

Yes.

# 180 MR. COCHRAN:

I can't hear the question.

# 181 THE COURT:

A newspaper.

# 182 MR. DARDEN:

That was a U.S.A. Today newspaper?

# 183 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, it was.

# 184 MR. DARDEN:

And that was dated June 13th; is that right?

# 185 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir. June 13th, 1994.

# 186 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And where was that newspaper? Where exactly was it?

# 187 MR. BERRIS:

It was on top of the bed. It wouldn't have been on the sheets where the--it would have been on top of the comforter or bedspread if you will. It would be toward the left-hand side as you're looking at the picture, Mr. Darden.

# 188 MR. DARDEN:

Let me show you 1336 up there on your monitor. Could you direct the arrow to the location of the newspaper, if you can?

# 189 MR. BERRIS:

Can I do that on here?

# 190 MR. DARDEN:

Just--

# 191 THE COURT:

Just tell us where to go. See the arrow?

# 192 MR. BERRIS:

Oh, to the left a little bit. A little bit more, a little bit more, slight bit more and then down. Be right there (Indicating).

# 193 MR. DARDEN:

Okay.

# 194 MR. BERRIS:

I think the arrow is right on the newspaper at this time.

# 195 MR. DARDEN:

Can we print that, your Honor, and mark it? Would you like to mark it Defendant's exhibit?

# 196 THE COURT:

Prosecution 590.

# 197 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Can we print that and mark it Prosecution 590?

# 198 (Peo's 590 for id = print out of photograph)

# 199 MR. DARDEN:

Now, the newspaper is actually covered over by the blankets; is that right?

# 200 MR. BERRIS:

Partially, yes, sir.

# 201 MR. DARDEN:

Now, this glass that you saw in the sink, it was shattered, wasn't it?

# 202 MR. BERRIS:

It was broken into a number of pieces.

# 203 MR. DARDEN:

And you knew that the Defendant had a cut on his left hand, right?

# 204 MR. BERRIS:

Yes.

# 205 MR. DARDEN:

Did you determine whether or not he was left-handed or he was right-handed?

# 206 MR. COCHRAN:

I object to the form--I object to the form of that question.

# 207 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 208 MR. COCHRAN:

Irrelevant and immaterial.

# 209 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 210 MR. COCHRAN:

Speculative.

# 211 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 212 MR. BERRIS:

I have no knowledge whether Mr. Simpson is right or left-handed.

# 213 MR. DARDEN:

Did you find any blood-stained tissues inside the room?

KEY QUOTE

# 214 MR. BERRIS:

No, sir.

# 215 MR. DARDEN:

Any blood-stained toilet paper at all?

# 216 MR. BERRIS:

No, sir.

# 217 MR. DARDEN:

Did you find any blood drops on the bathroom floor?

# 218 MR. BERRIS:

No, sir.

# 219 MR. DARDEN:

Did you find any drops of blood around the wash basin on the vanity?

# 220 MR. BERRIS:

No, sir.

# 221 MR. DARDEN:

Did you find any drops of blood on the carpet?

# 222 MR. BERRIS:

No, sir.

# 223 MR. DARDEN:

Did you find any next to the bed?

# 224 MR. BERRIS:

No, sir.

# 225 MR. DARDEN:

Did you find any on the telephone?

# 226 MR. BERRIS:

No, sir.

# 227 MR. DARDEN:

Let me show you an additional picture if I may. This is 581-B. Showing you 581-B on the monitor, detective.

# 228 THE COURT:

All right. This is--581-B appears to be a wide shot of the bathroom sink area.

# 229 MR. DARDEN:

You told us earlier that the living room area was neat when you--when you first arrived. Is that the condition in which you found the bathroom?

# 230 MR. BERRIS:

Yes, sir, it is.

# 231 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Thank you.

# 232 MR. DARDEN:

That's all I have.

# 233 THE COURT:

Mr. Cochran, any redirect?

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Kenneth Berris

They're unaccounted for.

Berris confirms the two missing laundry bags were never found — a detail the prosecution uses to suggest Simpson may have disposed of bloody clothing.

Christopher Darden

Did you find any blood-stained tissues inside the room? ... Any blood-stained toilet paper at all? ... Did you find any blood drops on the bathroom floor? ... Did you find any drops of blood around the wash basin on the vanity? ... Did you find any drops of blood on the carpet? ... Did you find any next to the bed? ... Did you find any on the telephone?

Darden's rapid-fire series of 'no' answers underscores that apart from sheet stains and a washcloth, the room was clean — consistent with the defense narrative that the blood was minor, but also used by prosecution to suggest cleanup.

Lance A. Ito

Depends on how you look at it.

Ito's dry aside during a time-zone confusion between Darden and the detective provides a rare moment of levity.

Christopher Darden

You got jet lag, detective?

After Berris botches the Chicago/LA time difference, Darden's quip gets the detective to self-correct — and loosens the room slightly.

Evidence (7)

People's 1336

Photograph of hotel room bed showing bedding and newspaper

displayed on monitor; detective directed arrow to newspaper location

People's 1333

Photograph of broken glass at hotel room scene

displayed; detective confirmed no blood observed on glass

People's 1331

Photograph of washcloth found underneath a towel, showing stain

displayed; detective confirmed stain present but no discrete blood drops

People's 581-B

Wide shot of hotel bathroom sink area

displayed; used to confirm bathroom was in neat condition

Prosecution 590

Printout of photo 1336 with arrow marking newspaper location on bed

newly marked and admitted during examination

Informal

Two missing hotel laundry bags

discussed; confirmed unaccounted for despite search

+ 1 more

Notable Exchanges (4)

Christopher Darden•Kenneth Berris•Lance A. Ito

Berris initially gets the Chicago/LA time difference backwards, then self-corrects after Darden's 'jet lag' joke. Ito contributes a dry 'depends on how you look at it.'

light

Christopher Darden•Kenneth Berris

Darden walks through every surface in the hotel room — carpet, phone, bathroom floor, vanity, toilet paper — and confirms Berris found no blood drops anywhere except the sheets and washcloth.

strategic

Christopher Darden•Johnnie Cochran•Lance A. Ito

Cochran objects three times in rapid succession (form, irrelevant, speculative) when Darden asks whether Berris determined if Simpson was left-handed. Ito overrules all three.

tense

Christopher Darden•Kenneth Berris

Darden confirms that Berris knew about Simpson's cut left hand before entering the room, and that he could not determine when the washcloth stain was made or whether it was caused by the LA injury.

strategic

Light Moments (2)

Christopher Darden

Berris gets the Chicago time zone direction backwards. Darden asks 'You got jet lag, detective?' Berris apologizes and corrects himself.

Lance A. Ito

When Darden and Berris briefly disagree on whether Chicago is ahead or behind LA, Ito deadpans: 'Depends on how you look at it.'

Credibility Attacks (1)

⚔ Kenneth Berris

omission / failure to investigate

Darden elicits that Berris did not check whether the card key system recorded entry times, did not determine if Simpson was left- or right-handed, and could not establish when the bloodstain on the washcloth was made — limiting the evidentiary value of the Chicago scene.

Witness Demeanor

(Brief pause.) — during photograph display

Witness self-corrects after time zone confusion, apologizes twice: 'I beg your pardon. I'm sorry.'

Objections

18 objections (4 sustained, 13 overruled)

Proceeding 7409 • 233 utterances • Defense witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103