Cross-examination of Michele Kestler (part 1)

📄 Cross-examination of Michele Kestler (part 1) — Wednesday, August 16, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\AUG\16\CROSS-EXAMINATION-OF-MICHELE-K.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 137 of 167

◀ Direct examination of Michele Kestler (part 5) Sidebar: evidence terminology ▶

Witness: Michele Kestler
Examiner: Christopher Darden
Called by: Defense • Date: Wednesday, August 16, 1995 • Utterances: 68

Darden cross-examines LAPD crime lab director Michele Kestler about two key items: the socks found in OJ Simpson's bedroom and the later search of the Bronco. He establishes that Kestler's June 29th notation 'Blood search, none obvious' did not mean the socks were blood-free — only that no detailed search had been conducted that day. He then confirms that Defense experts were present and videotaping when Kestler's team re-examined the Bronco in August, and that blood was observed on the console.

# 1 THE COURT:

Mr. Darden.

# 2 MR. DARDEN:

Thank you, your Honor.

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. DARDEN

# 3 MR. DARDEN:

Good afternoon.

# 4 MS. KESTLER:

Good afternoon.

# 5 MR. DARDEN:

When you examined the sock, that was on what, June--what was that date?

# 6 MS. KESTLER:

June 29th.

# 7 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And you didn't examine the sock. You looked at it; is that correct?

# 8 MS. KESTLER:

We did a cursory look at each piece of evidence to determine what analysis, if any, we were going to perform as well as inventory it.

# 9 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Now, when a criminalist is doing a detailed search of an item for blood, you use high intensity light to examine that item, don't you?

# 10 MS. KESTLER:

That's one of the things, yes.

# 11 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Did you use high intensity light when you looked at the socks that day?

# 12 MS. KESTLER:

No. The light is about like in here.

# 13 MR. DARDEN:

And you weren't doing a detailed search for blood at that time, were you?

# 14 MS. KESTLER:

No.

# 15 MR. DARDEN:

Another means by which you would search for blood on a pair of socks, dark colored socks, would be to use a microscope; is that right?

# 16 MS. KESTLER:

That's correct.

# 17 MR. DARDEN:

Did you use a microscope that afternoon?

# 18 MS. KESTLER:

No.

# 19 MR. DARDEN:

And that's because you weren't conducting a detailed search for blood on the socks, were you?

# 20 MS. KESTLER:

No. We were just trying to determine what we might--and that's what "Blood search" means. There was going to be a blood search done. We were asking for that to be performed. There was no obvious blood under these kind of conditions, office condition.

# 21 MR. DARDEN:

And is that what the notation means, "Blood search, none obvious"?

# 22 MS. KESTLER:

That's correct.

# 23 MR. DARDEN:

That doesn't mean there's no blood present on the socks, does it?

KEY QUOTE

# 24 MR. NEUFELD:

Objection, your Honor. That calls for speculation.

# 25 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 26 MR. DARDEN:

Well, in writing that notation, you weren't trying to suggest that there was no blood on the sock, were you?

# 27 MR. NEUFELD:

Objection as to what she was trying to suggest. It speaks for itself.

# 28 MR. DARDEN:

This is cross-examination.

# 29 THE COURT:

Overruled. Overruled.

# 30 MS. KESTLER:

No. We weren't looking for blood at all.

KEY QUOTE

# 31 MR. DARDEN:

Now, when Mr. Neufeld asked you some questions, there were occasions when you wanted to explain your answers; is that correct?

# 32 MS. KESTLER:

That's correct.

# 33 MR. DARDEN:

That's because not all of the questions could be answered with a yes or no answer in your opinion; is that right?

# 34 MS. KESTLER:

That's correct.

# 35 MR. DARDEN:

And what did you mean when you used the term "Blood search"?

# 36 MS. KESTLER:

Oh, "Blood search" would be later on. In other words, one of the things that those socks would be looked for was blood. We felt that--we had some knowledge that Mr. Simpson had cut his hand and those socks were found in his bedroom, and so we were going to search for blood on those socks.

# 37 MR. DARDEN:

And so you were planning to conduct the detailed search at some future point?

# 38 MS. KESTLER:

Yes, at some future point.

# 39 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

# 40 MR. DARDEN:

You mentioned a little while ago that on August 26th, was it, that you went and saw the Bronco?

# 41 MS. KESTLER:

I believe that's the date. I'm starting to mix up my dates here. Yes, August 26th.

# 42 MR. DARDEN:

And that was at keystone tow?

# 43 MS. KESTLER:

That's correct.

# 44 MR. DARDEN:

And that was in a secured facility?

# 45 MS. KESTLER:

Yes.

# 46 MR. DARDEN:

And you went there--and you went there with other criminalists; is that correct?

# 47 MS. KESTLER:

Yes.

# 48 MR. DARDEN:

You went there with some Defense experts, didn't you?

# 49 MS. KESTLER:

Yes, that's correct.

# 50 MR. DARDEN:

And the search conducted that day was videotaped?

# 51 MS. KESTLER:

I believe there was a video camera that a member of the Defense team brought or someone. I think it was the Defense.

# 52 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And that would be Mr. Ragle who was present on behalf of the Defense; is that right?

# 53 MS. KESTLER:

I think so, yes.

# 54 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And there was a SID photographer there?

# 55 MS. KESTLER:

Two SID photographers.

# 56 MR. DARDEN:

Did the Defense also send a photographer to the Bronco that afternoon?

# 57 MS. KESTLER:

Well, they had another expert there and they took pictures, and I don't know who necessarily took the pictures.

# 58 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. So you gave the Defense access to the Bronco while you conducted this additional search; is that right?

# 59 MS. KESTLER:

Yes.

# 60 MR. DARDEN:

They were present?

# 61 MS. KESTLER:

That's correct.

# 62 MR. DARDEN:

And when you looked inside the vehicle, you noticed blood; is that right?

# 63 MS. KESTLER:

That's correct.

# 64 MR. DARDEN:

You noticed blood on the console?

# 65 MS. KESTLER:

Or what appeared to be blood, yes.

KEY QUOTE

# 66 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Did you notice blood on the steering wheel?

# 67 MR. NEUFELD:

Objection, your Honor. Sidebar on this?

# 68 THE COURT:

With the court reporter.

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Michele Kestler

No. We weren't looking for blood at all.

Directly undermines any Defense implication that Kestler's 'Blood search, none obvious' notation exonerated the socks — she clarifies no real search occurred that day.

Christopher Darden

That doesn't mean there's no blood present on the socks, does it?

Darden's central point on redirect — the notation was procedural, not a finding. Objection was sustained, limiting its impact.

Michele Kestler

We had some knowledge that Mr. Simpson had cut his hand and those socks were found in his bedroom, and so we were going to search for blood on those socks.

Kestler explains the investigative rationale, linking Simpson's cut hand to the socks found in his bedroom.

Michele Kestler

Or what appeared to be blood, yes.

Careful, qualified language when confirming blood observed on the Bronco console — the examination ends here as Neufeld requests a sidebar.

Evidence (2)

Informal

Socks found in OJ Simpson's bedroom, examined cursorily on June 29th

discussed — Darden clarifies that 'Blood search, none obvious' notation was not a finding of no blood

Informal

OJ Simpson's Bronco, stored at Keystone Tow in secured facility

discussed — August 26th re-examination with Defense experts present; blood observed on console

Notable Exchanges (3)

Christopher Darden•Michele Kestler

Darden methodically walks through what 'Blood search, none obvious' actually means, getting Kestler to confirm no high-intensity light, no microscope, and no actual blood search was conducted on June 29th.

strategic

Christopher Darden•Michele Kestler

Darden establishes that the Defense was present, photographing, and videotaping the August Bronco re-examination — preempting any chain-of-custody or access complaints.

procedural

Peter Neufeld•Lance A. Ito

Neufeld requests a sidebar just as Darden is about to ask about blood on the steering wheel, cutting off the examination before the jury hears the answer.

strategic

Credibility Attacks (1)

⚔ Michele Kestler

prior inconsistent statement / notation clarification

Darden forces Kestler to clarify that her 'Blood search, none obvious' notation — which the Defense had used on direct to suggest no blood was on the socks — was written under office lighting with no high-intensity light or microscope, and meant only that no obvious blood was visible under those limited conditions.

Witness Demeanor

(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

Objections

3 objections (1 sustained, 1 overruled)

Proceeding 7327 • 68 utterances • Defense witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103