📄 Administrative matters: Fuhrman tapes protective order — Monday, August 14, 1995
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Administrative matters: Fuhrman tapes protective order

Date: Monday, August 14, 1995 • Utterances: 40
The defense requested that access to the Fuhrman tapes be expanded beyond the original protective order to include F. Lee Bailey (who is mid-cross-examination of Fuhrman), Alan Dershowitz, and Gerald Uelmen. Judge Ito agreed Bailey should be included but required consent from McKinny's counsel (Schwartz and Regwan) and imposed a no-copies condition. The proceeding also briefly covered a Sunday night site visit by the judge and counsel to Bundy and Rockingham to evaluate a potential jury view, and ended with Clark requesting a sidebar on the tapes issue.
1 THE COURT:

All right. Anything else for me to take up?

2 MR. COCHRAN:

Good morning, your Honor.

3 THE COURT:

Mr. Cochran.

4 MR. COCHRAN:

We will have some things to talk about probably this afternoon so we will get this morning--

5 THE COURT:

I had anticipated this morning because I didn't bring the jury down.

6 MR. COCHRAN:

Oh. May we have a moment then, your Honor?

7 THE COURT:

Yes.

8 MR. COCHRAN:

Okay. Thank you.

9 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)
10 MR. COCHRAN:

Good morning, your Honor.

11 THE COURT:

Good morning, Mr. Cochran.

12 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, a couple of things we would like to address, if we might. One, regarding the tapes, your Honor. As the Court can imagine, we have all been quite busy, and I understand the Prosecution now has the tapes also, and one of the things I wanted to address was that with regard--

13 THE COURT:

Do they have the tapes and the transcript?

14 MR. COCHRAN:

I don't know. I was just advised by Messers. Schwartz and Regwan that they were going to get I presume the tapes and the transcript.

15 THE COURT:

Miss Clark indicates that they have both.

16 MR. COCHRAN:

Right, and he called and indicated that while I was back east this weekend. Your Honor, with regard to that, I would ask with regard to the people who can listen to the tape, we have obviously got expanded from the Defense standpoint because Mr. Bailey is handling Detective Fuhrman and we certainly anticipate that he is in the middle of cross-examination, so it is kind of unfair, that he has to know what is on these tapes, and so we've got to extend it further because these tapes are so voluminous and there is so much information on these tapes that I believe this Court is going to find very, very relevant. We need Mr. Dershowitz and--Professor Dershowitz and Professor Uelmen also involved because we anticipate any motion that they bring, clearly they are relevant, and the question is we don't want to play at this point thirteen or fourteen hours of tapes. Maybe five or six hours, but certainly not thirteen or fourteen, but we would like to narrow it down in order to do that. If the Court pleases, we want to be able to share that with our colleagues and we want to do a major brief spelling out the various points and the various relevance, and I think it will be helpful to the Court. We are going to have a copy for you--well, I should back up and say Miss McKinny is in town and I had asked her, you remember last week, to bring the original for this Court, and I will--hopefully tomorrow we can give you the original and a copy of her transcript. And then as I indicated, my office is doing a separate transcript which we can compare and--but you need to--you need to read these transcripts, and it is a lot of work, but you need to hear this for a lot of reasons. And so that is--that is what I would like to do. And certainly specifically Mr. Bailey isn't here this morning, but certainly he has to be part of it.

17 THE COURT:

No, I agree with you, that since Mr. Bailey is the individual conducting the examination of that particular witness, that he ought to be included, something perhaps we should have thought about when the protective order was originally contemplated, but the thing is the protective order was submitted by counsel for Miss McKinny, Mr. Schwartz and Mr. Regwan.

18 MR. COCHRAN:

Yes.

19 THE COURT:

So it will need their acquiescence.

20 MR. COCHRAN:

It will and there will be no problem. I spoke to them from back east. And the other matter that we talked about, the 1054.07, they have acquiesced and they have been in touch and they have allowed that also, so I will ask them to send you a letter today.

21 THE COURT:

All right. If you will secure for me their consent to that with the understanding that no copies be made by any of those three counsel; Mr. Bailey, Mr. Dershowitz or Mr. Uelmen.

KEY QUOTE
22 MR. COCHRAN:

Certainly. Are there any limits on the Prosecution, your Honor?

23 THE COURT:

The Defense--excuse me. Miss McKinny's counsel have not asked for restrictions on the Prosecution.

24 MR. COCHRAN:

That wasn't my understanding. My understanding was that they wanted to protect the propriety rights of these tapes. It had nothing to do with the--

25 THE COURT:

I stand corrected. The protective order did include the Prosecution.

26 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. All right.

27 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)
28 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, the problem with what you just said, and I would like to just clear this up, Dershowitz, as the Court knows, is in Massachusetts so we can't work with one copy where he is concerned. I will address that when we reach Messers. Regwan and Schwartz, and they have already acquiesced to a separate copy to others as it is, so we expect we can handle this, if the Court pleases. As a matter of fact, Professor Uelmen will be here this afternoon and we will be talking about the Kestler/Bosco/Savage matters. And I think that Mr. Scheck would like to address the Court on the whole idea of the jury view and the--it is our position it is unnecessary and too costly, but I would like Mr. Scheck to do that at this point, if the Court pleases.

29 THE COURT:

All right. Here, the problem Mr. Scheck, though, is the individuals from the District Attorney's office who were present aren't here. Why don't you put it in writing. Put your objections in writing.

30 MR. SCHECK:

Okay.

31 THE COURT:

All right. The record should reflect that on Sunday evening at eight o'clock the Court met with Mr. Scheck and Mr. Douglas and Mr. Yochelson and Mr. Hodgman and the five of us went to the Bundy and Rockingham locations in the evening hours to view Bundy and Rockingham for the purposes of determining whether or not a nighttime viewing would be appropriate in this case. And I will take up any objections or suggestions from counsel in writing, but we should resolve this issue by Wednesday. All right. Anything else before we bring the jury down?

32 MS. CLARK:

Yes, your Honor. I think we should approach side bar.

33 THE COURT:

On what issue?

34 MS. CLARK:

On the tapes issue.

35 THE COURT:

We are not going to discuss the content of the tapes, are we?

36 MS. CLARK:

No.

37 THE COURT:

I mean, is there anything we can't discuss here in open court?

38 MS. CLARK:

Yes, it is something that we can't discuss in open court.

39 THE COURT:

Why is that?

40 MS. CLARK:

I really--I think we should address this at side bar.

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Johnnie Cochran
these tapes are so voluminous and there is so much information on these tapes that I believe this Court is going to find very, very relevant
Cochran signals the defense views the McKinny tapes as highly material and is preparing a substantial brief on their relevance
Lance A. Ito
since Mr. Bailey is the individual conducting the examination of that particular witness, that he ought to be included, something perhaps we should have thought about when the protective order was originally contemplated
Ito acknowledges a gap in the original protective order and agrees to expand access — a practical concession to the defense
Lance A. Ito
If you will secure for me their consent to that with the understanding that no copies be made by any of those three counsel; Mr. Bailey, Mr. Dershowitz or Mr. Uelmen
Sets the specific conditions for expanded tape access — listen-only, no copies
Marcia Clark
I think we should approach side bar... it is something that we can't discuss in open court
Clark's unexplained sidebar request at the end creates a cliffhanger — she has something about the tapes she won't say publicly

Evidence (2)

Informal
The Fuhrman/McKinny interview tapes and accompanying transcripts — described as approximately 13-14 hours total
discussed; access and protective order conditions being negotiated
Informal
Original tape recordings held by Laura McKinny, who is described as being in town
Cochran states originals and a copy of McKinny's transcript will be delivered to the court the following day

Notable Exchanges (3)

Johnnie CochranLance A. Ito
Cochran corrects Ito on the scope of the protective order — Ito initially claims McKinny's counsel only restricted the defense, but Cochran pushes back and Ito concedes the order covered the prosecution too
strategic
Lance A. ItoBarry Scheck
Ito discloses he conducted a Sunday night site visit to Bundy and Rockingham with Scheck, Douglas, Yochelson, and Hodgman to evaluate a nighttime jury view; Scheck is directed to submit written objections
procedural
Marcia ClarkLance A. Ito
Clark requests a sidebar on the tapes issue, repeatedly declining to explain why it cannot be discussed in open court even when Ito presses her
tense

Objections

None recorded
Proceeding 7289 • 40 utterances
Criminal Trial
Department 103
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📂 AUG 14, 1995 📄 Administrative matters: Fuhrma
AUG 14, 1995 KRT DvH TD