📄 Court business: McKinny tapes — Thursday, August 10, 1995
Address:
C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\AUG\10\COURT-BUSINESS-MCKINNY-TAPES.DOC
TRIAL
▲ Day 133 of 167

Court business: McKinny tapes

Date: Thursday, August 10, 1995 • Utterances: 61
During the noon recess, with the jury excused, Judge Ito addressed the sudden appearance of Laura Hart McKinny's counsel (Schwartz and Regwan) who brought 12 audio cassette copies and transcripts to court. A sharp dispute erupted between Cochran and Darden over whose subpoena duces tecum compelled the materials' delivery — Cochran argued the Defense had arranged the copies through the North Carolina court order, while Darden insisted the tapes were present solely because of the Prosecution's SDT served the prior night. Ito cut through the argument by directing the clerk to take custody of the materials pending a protective order and his review of the dispute.
1 THE COURT:

Counsel I need to take a recess at this time. All right. Ladies and gentlemen, I need to take our noon recess as far as the jury is concerned at this time. Please remember all my admonitions to you. Don't discuss the case among yourselves, form any opinions about the case, conduct any deliberations until the matter has been submitted to you or allow anybody to communicate with you with regard to the case. Counsel, we will stand in recess until 1:30. Dr. Baden, you can step down, sir.

2 DR. BADEN:

Thank you, your Honor.

3 (At 11:58 A.M. the jury was excused and the following proceedings were held in open court:)
4 THE COURT:

All right. Let me see Miss Clark and where is Mr. Cochran?

5 DEPUTY MAGNERA:

He is outside, your Honor.

6 (Brief pause.)
7 (A conference was held at the bench, not reported.)
8 (The following proceedings were held in open court:)
9 THE COURT:

All right. Mrs. Robertson, would you invite Mr. Schwartz, et al, to join us, please.

10 (Brief pause.)
11 THE COURT:

All right. Back on the record in the Simpson matter. The record should reflect that the jury has withdrawn from the courtroom. We now have present counsel who represent the interests of Miss McKinny. Counsel, do you want to state your appearances for the record and spell your names for the court reporter, please.

12 MR. SCHWARTZ:

Matthew Schwartz, M-A-T-T-H-E-W S-C-H-W-A-R-T-Z. Ron Regwan, R-E-G-W-A-N, for Laura Hart McKinny.

13 THE COURT:

All right. Gentlemen, you are here in response to a court order?

14 MR. SCHWARTZ:

Yes, your Honor.

15 THE COURT:

What have you produced for the court?

16 MR. SCHWARTZ:

We have brought with us twelve audio cassettes and a couple of transcripts that are responsive to the subpoena duces tecum that was served by the Prosecution last night.

17 THE COURT:

All right. And they are in the box that is presently on counsel table?

18 MR. SCHWARTZ:

No. Actually they are in the suitcase of my attorney.

19 THE COURT:

All right. And you are prepared to turn those materials over to the Court at this time in response to the subpoena duces tecum?

20 MR. SCHWARTZ:

Yes, I am, your Honor, but I would like to request a brief meeting in chambers for a brief discussion, if possible.

21 THE COURT:

All right. Is there a request for protective orders regarding the contents?

22 MR. SCHWARTZ:

Yes, your Honor.

23 THE COURT:

All right. It is my inclination at this point to--what is your request likely to be, that no copies be made?

24 MR. SCHWARTZ:

No copies be made and at this point that anything that is not to be used by the Defense or by the Prosecution be placed under seal because it would not be necessary to be disclosed for the purposes of this trial. I would like to try to protect the proprietary interests of my client.

25 THE COURT:

All right. Will you fax to the Court then at your earliest convenience a proposed protective order. My inclination is to grant that order.

26 MR. SCHWARTZ:

Thank you, your Honor.

27 MR. COCHRAN:

May I be heard, your Honor?

28 THE COURT:

So ordered.

29 MR. COCHRAN:

The Court indicated we are here pursuant to the Court's order. That is not exactly correct. May I just state while we are here, basically the Court is aware that we asked this Court, I guess maybe some ten days ago, to issue a subpoena for Miss Laura Hart McKinny, a subpoena duces tecum. I then went to North Carolina, and I don't have to go through the steps we went through last month. The North Carolina Court issued an order which I gave the Court indicating the tapes, a copy of the tapes at least were to come to the petitioner's counsel. These gentleman are here today primarily because I have made the arrangements to have these copies of these tapes made. These are not the original tapes as I understand it. These are copies for--

30 THE COURT:

Excuse me just a minute. Mr. Schwartz, these are copies, correct?

31 MR. SCHWARTZ:

I believe these are copies.

32 MR. COCHRAN:

These are copies and in conversation--and these gentleman have fought vigorously for their client, but at the same time they have been very professional. And so in talking with them as early as Monday evening I made arrangements to have a copy which the Defense, the petitioners, will pay for pursuant to the order of the North Carolina court, to have it delivered out here today. And so I have previously asked for a 1054.07 meeting with your Honor regarding this, so these are here--they were due to present these to my office this morning. I spoke to them after our meeting this morning and found out the People have tried now to subpoena after we have done all this work and that is improper. These are impeachment documents. And so before the Court rules--by the way, we have previously stipulated, as Mr. Regwan and Mr. Schwartz will indicate, I have absolutely no problem with a protective order vis-à-vis anything not used or whatever, but these were subpoenaed by Mr. Simpson and his counsel from the North Carolina court and are here. And these are copies of tapes which I have been willing to pay for and through counsel have made arrangements for ms. McKinny to come to California. Mr. Simpson will be paying for that, not the Prosecution. And further, I said that pursuant to the subpoena she should keep the originals with her and bring them when she comes. These are copies for Mr. Simpson.

And the petitioners will be putting on this evidence so I think it is imperative--I understand you have a meeting, so it is imperative that before we go any further, we have no problem about the protective order or whatever, no problem about you placing them with the Court, but these are things we are paying for and this is what I went through you; not the Prosecution.

33 THE COURT:

Let me tell you, Mr. Cochran, what I am inclined to do. The operative document here, the legal process, is the subpoena duces tecum, so when it comes to the Court--

34 MR. COCHRAN:

Yes.

35 THE COURT:

--well, Mrs. Robertson is obligated to log in, catalogue what is there, and then you can request that these items be released to your custody and with a standard removal order, which I am inclined to do as soon as I receive the protective order and--

36 MR. COCHRAN:

We will stipulate.

37 MR. DARDEN:

What about the Prosecution, your Honor? We would also like copies of these documents and tapes.

38 THE COURT:

Well, it is something you will have to take up with counsel for Miss McKinny. This is an arrangement that--what counsel has gotten from North Carolina is an enforcement of the order that Miss McKinny appear in this jurisdiction in person and with the original tapes. That is the order that has been secured. Counsel have also agreed, apparently between themselves--

39 MR. COCHRAN:

Yes.

40 THE COURT:

--to provide a copy to the Defense; however, this is still under the authority of the subpoena duces tecum which is why I'm going to have Mrs. Robertson log it and then turn it over once I get a protective order signed and issued.

41 MR. COCHRAN:

Then I would like to address the Court as I indicated earlier.

42 MR. DARDEN:

Your Honor, this is in response to the Prosecution's subpoena.

43 MR. COCHRAN:

No.

44 MR. DARDEN:

And the court in North Carolina directs Miss McKinny to turn it over to the Defense. It doesn't direct counsel here in California to turn it over today. We served an SDT on Mr. Schwartz and his colleagues insisting that they bring these documents here before the Court. And as the Court is well aware, we appeared in chambers before the Court on July 14th, minutes after we heard about the existence of these tapes. We asked the Court for guidance. We issued an SDT back on July 14th. To give these tapes to the Defense only under these circumstances is inherently unfair. This is our SDT. These tapes are here because of our SDT. Those are our tapes, your Honor.

45 THE COURT:

Doesn't appear to be the fact.

KEY QUOTE
46 MR. COCHRAN:

Those are not the facts. These are--

47 THE COURT:

Hold on, Mr. Cochran. Mr. Schwartz, whose SDT are you here responding to?

KEY QUOTE
48 MR. SCHWARTZ:

Today?

49 THE COURT:

Today.

50 MR. SCHWARTZ:

That would be one served by the Prosecution last night.

KEY QUOTE
51 THE COURT:

All right.

52 MR. COCHRAN:

One further question. Mr. Schwartz, why are the tapes--why are the copies of these tapes--

53 THE COURT:

Wait, Mr. Cochran. I'm sorry, I get to ask questions.

54 MR. COCHRAN:

I'm sorry. May I ask the Court to ask that question, why these tapes are here in California.

55 THE COURT:

I understand--we understand all of that counsel. Let's do this: Mr. Schwartz, I will direct you to deliver to Mrs. Robertson, the clerk of the Court, the items that you've brought to Court and if you will provide the Court and give the Court a protective order sometime this afternoon, I would appreciate that. The clerk will maintain custody until I've had a chance to determine this dispute. And I've got to go to a meeting.

56 MR. COCHRAN:

Thank you, your Honor. They will be safe with Mrs. Robertson.

57 THE COURT:

All right. Thank you, counsel.

58 (At 12:09 P.M. the noon recess was taken until 1:30 P.M. of the same day.)
59 (Appearances as heretofore noted; also appearing, Kelli Sager, Esquire and Michael Sullivan, Esquire.)
60 (Janet M. Moxham, CSR no. 4855, official reporter.)
61 (Christine M. Olson, CSR no. 2378, official reporter.)

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (5)

Christopher Darden
Those are our tapes, your Honor.
Blunt prosecutorial claim of ownership over the McKinny materials, asserting it was their SDT — not the North Carolina order or Defense arrangements — that compelled delivery.
Lance A. Ito
Doesn't appear to be the fact.
Ito flatly rejected Darden's claim, undercutting the Prosecution's framing without extended argument.
Lance A. Ito
Hold on, Mr. Cochran. Mr. Schwartz, whose SDT are you here responding to?
Ito went directly to McKinny's counsel to resolve the factual dispute, bypassing the competing attorneys entirely.
Mr. Schwartz
That would be one served by the Prosecution last night.
McKinny's own counsel confirmed Darden's core factual claim, complicating Cochran's narrative that the Defense had orchestrated the delivery.
Johnnie Cochran
These are impeachment documents. And so before the Court rules... these were subpoenaed by Mr. Simpson and his counsel from the North Carolina court and are here.
Cochran flagged the tapes' purpose — Fuhrman impeachment — and staked the Defense's claim to having driven the entire legal process securing them.

Evidence (1)

Informal
Twelve audio cassette copies of the McKinny/Fuhrman recordings, plus accompanying transcripts
Delivered to court by McKinny's counsel in response to Prosecution's SDT; placed in clerk's custody pending protective order

Notable Exchanges (2)

Christopher DardenJohnnie CochranLance A. Ito
Darden insisted the tapes were present because of the Prosecution's SDT and demanded equal access; Cochran countered that the Defense had done all the legal work through North Carolina; Ito resolved it by asking McKinny's counsel directly, who confirmed Darden's SDT was the operative process — though Ito still declined to simply hand the materials to either side.
heated
Lance A. ItoJohnnie Cochran
Cochran attempted to pose a question to Schwartz and Ito cut him off — 'Wait, Mr. Cochran. I'm sorry, I get to ask questions' — before allowing Cochran to request the Court ask it on his behalf.
strategic

Objections

None recorded
Proceeding 7268 • 61 utterances
Criminal Trial
Department 103
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📂 AUG 10, 1995 📄 Court business: McKinny tapes
AUG 10, 1995 KRT DvH TD