And, ma'am, now that you've had a chance to look at that photograph of the Bronco, I now ask you once again--actually--
Having looked at that photograph and now also once again looking at 1097, can you see that on the monitor?
Okay. Now, would you agree that in order to see the specks that are in the upper of the two circles--see the two circles, one on top of each other?
--that in order to see those two specks, the door would have to be in the open position?
When you went out to the scene on the 14th, you systematically examined the Bronco exterior; did you not?
In fact, that's what your vehicle search inspection list requires you to do, to make a systematic examination of the exterior of the car; isn't that right?
And based on--now, what you examined that day, in the open position and closed position of the door and having looked at these photographs, would you agree that in order to see the specks in the upper circle, that the door would have to be in the open position?
It's hard to say. I'm not sure how far the bottom of the Bronco flares out from the pictures. I can't say if it would have to be open or closed.
Ma'am, in the pictures that you have in front of you, doesn't the door of the Bronco come down flush with the outer edge of that sill in the pictures that you have?
I'm not sure if it's flush or not. There's a bottom strip that could be out a little further. In the picture, it's a little hard to tell.
By the way, Miss Mazzola--to the--to the best of your recollection, ma'am, you didn't even see the specks in that upper circle on the 14th, did you?
And you did not see the smear or grayish or--I am sorry--discoloration indicated in the third circle, did you?
Right. Miss Mazzola, you didn't see them on the morning of the 13th either, did you?
Miss Mazzola, you were shown the car on the 13th by the detectives, didn't you? Weren't you?
And you walked over with the detectives and Dennis Fung to examine the Bronco, didn't you?
And in fact, I think you said that you personally even swatched the stain on the handle of the Bronco, didn't you?
Well, you were there when Detective Fuhrman pointed it out to--oh, I'm sorry. Withdrawn. You were at the Bronco with Dennis Fung and the detectives when one of the detectives pointed out a small speck near the handle on the driver's door; isn't that correct?
And at that point in time, when that speck was pointed out to you and Dennis Fung, no other speck was pointed out to you and Dennis Fung on the exterior of the car; isn't that correct?
Well, with respect to your independent recollection, Miss Mazzola, as it stands today, is it fair to say that you have no independent recollection of any detective showing you any other speck or stain on that car other than the speck next to the driver's handle?
That's what I'm asking you. Your independent recollection, from what you can recall.
Thank you. By the way, Miss Mazzola, when you do a phenolphthalein test, have you been taught that there are confirmatory tests that you can do back at the laboratory?
And the reason--I'm sorry. And the confirmatory tests that can be done back at the laboratory would tell you whether or not it was in fact blood as opposed to some other substance which created a false positive; isn't that correct?
Well, I'm not asking you for what tests is done. I'm asking you whether or not you were told that there are tests that are done back at the serology laboratory to confirm whether or not an item which you suspected might be blood was in fact blood as opposed to something else?
And there are also confirmatory tests that you've been taught about which can tell you whether something is human blood as opposed to some animal blood; isn't that right?
And as you sit here today, ma'am, referring to those specks that you collected which are item 20 on the passenger door--
--to your knowledge, has there ever been any confirmatory test done to determine whether or not that speck on the door was human blood?
Sustained. It's a vague question. Which--you're referring to item 20 in photograph number--Defendant's 1113, correct?
Right. Passenger--Excuse me, counsel. You keep on saying specks and Mr. Harris put up another photograph. We're talking about 1113, passenger door specks, 20, correct?
With respect to those two specks that you see in the picture to the left of the no. 20, to your knowledge, has there ever been a confirmatory test to determine whether or not those specks are human blood?
When the detectives showed you the speck the morning of the 13th on the driver's door, not no. 20, but the speck on the driver's door, that was right after Dennis Fung and the detectives had this discussion; is that correct?
And was Dennis Fung with you when the detectives pointed out the speck on the driver's door?
Now, at both Rockingham and Bundy, did the detectives tell you which items to collect?
They showed us different items and between talking with Mr. Fung, they all decided which ones should be collected as evidence.
During your training at the SID mini academy, did you receive handouts from time to time on how to conduct crime scene investigations?
I'll show you what's been marked as Defendant's 1115, ask you to take a look at it. Read it to yourself.
Ma'am, was that handout--I'm sorry. Was that document one of the handouts that you were given at the LAPD?
In your presence, did Dennis Fung outside the presence of the detectives ever independently go out and look for evidence?
When you arrived at Bundy that day, did the detectives make you wait until they removed both bodies?
Well, did you wait back on the sidewalk because the detectives had asked you to wait?
Well, had the detectives asked you to wait before you began your own work until the bodies had been both removed?
Well, had you been taught, Miss Mazzola, that when you first get to a crime scene, you are to make a quick search for perishable evidence? Is that something you've been taught at SID?
And as you stood there when you arrived, you saw that the Coroners were in the process of moving bodies; were you not?
Did you when you first arrived go forward then into the crime scene to conduct a quick search for perishable evidence?
Well, did you actually--from where you were standing on the sidewalk, you could observe Mr. Fung, couldn't you?
And when you saw Mr. Fung go into the area, he was carrying the brown paper bag which had the glove in it, didn't he?
All right. The first time he went up, did you see Dennis Fung making a--making an examination for perishable or easily movable evidence?
When you were standing out on the sidewalk and they were moving the bodies, what did you see or where did you see Dennis Fung standing?
Well, now that you've done that examination, okay, of that crime scene that day, you do know that he wasn't removing perishable or other small items near the bodies; is that correct?
Nor was he removing any small items that were in close proximity to the bodies, was he?
Did you say to Dennis Fung before he walked into the crime scene that, "We should quickly look for perishable and other small items since they're removing the bodies"?
And you would agree that trace evidence can be transferred carelessly when bodies are moved?
In your presence, did you ever hear Dennis Fung, your supervisor, tell the detectives not to move the bodies until he first made an inspection of the scene for perishable or other small items?
Now, at 7:00 A.M., you said when--that's when you arrived. A little bit after 7:00 A.M., you arrived at Rockingham with Dennis Fung?
And you said that you overheard the discussion that Dennis Fung had with the detectives at that time; is that right?
All right. And the detectives showed you around the grounds before you began collecting any stains; isn't that correct?
And at that point, the detectives told you which items to collect; isn't that right?
well, when they pointed out items that they were interested in, they were telling you that the items that they were interested in were the items that you and Dennis Fung should collect; isn't that right?
Well, did you find other items out there in the driveway of Mr. Simpson's house other than what was pointed out to you by the detectives?
And so as to the items in the driveway, the detectives told you which items to collect?
But you didn't even bother collecting any of the stains until 8:15; isn't that right?
Okay. Miss Mazzola, did you at any time after the discussion was over between Dennis Fung and the detectives say to the detectives, "Wait. We should go to Bundy first and examine that scene before they move the bodies"?
Now, what about--and that conversation would be around 7:30 in the morning; is that right?
Okay. So you didn't say anything to the detectives about the necessity of going to Bundy before they moved the bodies at 7:20 or 7:30 in the morning; is that right?
All right. Well, let's see. What about 8:00 A.M.? 8:00 A.M., you still hadn't collected the first stain. You knew at that point in time that there were bodies at Bundy that would have to be moved; did you not?
Well, had you been told prior to 8:00 A.M. that there were bodies in connection with this homicide case at Bundy?
And you knew from your experience and training that the Coroner's office would be there to move those bodies; did you not?
Well, you knew that at some point in time, the Coroners would come to the scene to remove the two victims; did you not?
All right. Did you ask the detectives whether or not the bodies had been removed yet at 8:00 A.M. in the morning before you started collecting stains at Rockingham?
Now, after you collected the drop on the Bronco, it was still--it was not until 9:00 o'clock that you began picking up the other drops in the driveway; is that right?
Okay. So at this point, you had already been at the scene, ma'am, an hour and a half approximately; is that right?
And you knew that bodies--there were two bodies of two victims at the Bundy location, correct?
And you knew that just from your experience, that at some point in time, Coroners would have to move those two bodies, correct?
And you had also been taught, had you not, Miss Mazzola, in terms of crime scene evidence collection methods that it is preferable to examine the crime scene before bodies are removed for small items of perishable items? Had you been taught that?
Okay. Now, at both Rockingham and Bundy, photographs were taken of the various bloodstains; is that right?
Ma'am, in your training at SID, were you taught that when you take a photograph of a bloodstain or other item of evidence, that you should use a ruler in the photograph? Is that something you were taught?
Well, did you receive a handout which described how photographs should be taken at crime scenes?
Show you what has been marked as Defendant's 1116, ask you to take a look at those two pages. Miss Mazzola, is 1116, Defense 1116, the handout that you received on forensic photography?
Well, you say you recall receiving a handout on forensic photography; did you not?
were you taught at the SID, Miss Mazzola, that acceptable crime scene photography should tell a story by itself absent of any written or oral narration? Were you taught that concept?
And were you taught, Miss Mazzola, at SID that the photographs should have some scale in it so a person who's looking at the photograph will know how big the object is?
Well, Miss Mazzola, let me--just for a second, look at what is here in this picture, photograph b on Prosecution's exhibit 120. Do you see it?
And would you agree, ma'am, that if there was no ruler in that picture, you would have--a viewer would have no idea how large that stain is? Would you agree?
and isn't it true that because of that fact, you were taught at SID that it is important to put some kind of scale or ruler in a photograph so when someone looks at the photograph, they will have an idea as to how large the stain is?
I'm not asking you whether it's a possibility, ma'am. I'm asking you whether or not your instructors at the Los Angeles Police Department Scientific Investigation Division taught you that for forensic photography, that you should put or instruct the photographer to put a ruler in the picture when you take a picture of a bloodstain so that anyone else who is looking at it will know how big the stain is.
I don't believe they told us that. Forensic photographers know how to photograph evidence. It's up to them.
Miss Mazzola, isn't the job of the criminalist to instruct and direct the forensic photographer at the scene? Isn't that one of your responsibilities?
Fine. So it's Dennis Fung's responsibility, is that what you're saying, to instruct the forensic photographer how to take the pictures at the scene?
Excuse me, counsel. If you would, she was mid answer when you started asking the next question. Allow her--
So would it be fair to say that it was Dennis Fung's responsibility as the senior criminalist at the scene to instruct the forensic photographers on how to take the pictures of various items of evidence?
Isn't it--weren't you instructed, Miss Mazzola, to make sure there was comprehensive coverage of each item of evidence at the crime scene?
And weren't you instructed, ma'am, to make sure that the forensic photographer takes close-up shots as well as distant shots of each item of evidence?
I asked whether you were instructed to make sure that that happens, you being a criminalist.
We were given information on the way the forensic photographers photograph crime scenes.
And who brings the numbers that are put down to identify different items for the photographer to take pictures of?
And if you want the photographer--by the way, were you working with one photographer at Rockingham in the morning of July--of June 13th?
It was the same photographer who at least shot the different stains in the driveway with you; isn't that right?
And it was Dennis Fung's job to instruct that photographer what he wanted in the photograph, wasn't it?
Excuse me. Excuse me. Mr. Neufeld, is there a reason we--are you still questioning as to this--
Okay. And I believe you said on direct examination that Dennis Fung was not with you when you collected item 7 and item 8 at Rockingham; isn't that right?
And I think you said, ma'am--oh, let me ask you this. Were you also taught that when taking pictures of bloodstains, it may be important to know whether or not the bloodstain had some direction? Correct?
And to know whether it has some direction, one would want to know whether the direction is north, south, east or west, correct?
And for that purpose, ma'am, weren't you trained at the SID that when taking photographs of--of bloodstains, that somebody should at least put into the photograph an arrow pointing north? Weren't you taught that?
Excuse me. Counsel--excuse me. Counsel, she's the probationary trainee. Mr. Fung was in charge and there was a photographer taking these pictures. So this is interesting, but not tremendously relevant to this witness.
Well, did--there's only one photograph here that has an arrow and a northerly direction on it; isn't that right?
In fact, the person that was with you when you collected item 7 was a--one of the most senior supervisors in the whole SID, correct?
And did Mr. Johnson direct that the "N" in the arrow be placed in the photograph?
Would you agree, ma'am, that in terms of the drops that were collected, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8, that for those drops that do not have a ruler in the picture, there is no record of the size of those drops?
And would you agree, ma'am, that for the drops at Bundy, there is no ruler in any of those photographs?
And so would you also agree that there is no record for the size of any of these bloodstains at Bundy--of the drops on the walkway?
And as you sit here today 10 months later, do you have an independent recollection of the size of each bloodstain at Rockingham and Bundy?
And at any time while you were at Rockingham and Bundy, did Dennis Fung instruct you to note the size of each of the bloodstains in writing on the field notes?
Well, would you agree, ma'am, that the size of the bloodstain is an indication of how much blood is present?
All right. And would you agree, ma'am, that how much blood is present would indicate how much DNA one would expect to isolate from a bloodstain?
Have you at any point in your instruction been told that the larger the bloodstain, the more DNA one would expect to get from the bloodstain? Has that been taught to you?
Miss Mazzola, did you personally do the phenolphtalein test on the speck next to the driver's handle?
And after you did the phenolphtalein test and it came up magenta, pink, you collected that swatch, correct?
And to your knowledge, to this day, Miss Mazzola, has any confirmatory test ever been done to make sure that that speck was human blood?
Now, back at Rockingham in the morning of June 13th, isn't it a fact that you personally and exclusively collected every drop of blood that was seen at Rockingham?
When you say that Dennis Fung assisted on a few of the drops, what do you mean by that?
Do you mean that for some items, you took some swatches and he took some swatches?
Ma'am, when you testified on direct examination or on cross-examination last Thursday, didn't you say that with respect to items 4, 5 and 6, that Dennis Fung alone was the collector of those items and not you? Wasn't that your testimony just this last Thursday?
Miss Mazzola, you testified on August 23rd, 1994--didn't you testify that you alone collected all the drops of blood at the Rockingham location?
Well, Miss Mazzola, when you testified on August--I'm sorry--when you testified on August 23rd, 1994, do you recall me asking you which items you collected at Rockingham? Do you recall me asking that question?
This is a different quote I'm getting at, your Honor. It's a different portion of the transcript.
Miss Mazzola, when you testified on August 23rd, 1995, were you asked by me which items you personally collected at the Rockingham scene that morning?
I--excuse me. I don't remember the exact question. It might have been something like that.
Well, were you asked to distinguish those items that you collected personally as opposed to those items that you collectively collected with Dennis Fung?
and isn't it a fact, ma'am, that when you were asked which items you collected at Rockingham, that you understood that question to mean those items that you personally collected as opposed to those items which you collected with Dennis Fung; isn't that correct?
I'm going to sustain the objection. That's not the way this question is phrased, counsel.
All right. Well, let me ask you this. Were you asked these questions and did you give these answers in sworn testimony on August 23rd, 1995?
Were you asked these questions by me on August 23rd, did you give these answers? "Question: And after you removed that stain on the Bronco, you then began to collect the stains leading up the driveway toward the front door of Mr. Simpson's house?"
Wait. Take it down. It's not inconsistent. It doesn't say all the stains. It says stains. Take it down. Proceed.
Miss Mazzola, when you were asked about the stains that were collected on Rockingham on August 23rd, did you ever testify that Dennis Fung collected even a single stain?
Was it your understanding when you were asked questions about the collecting of stains at Rockingham, Miss Mazzola, that the questions were being asked of what you personally collected as opposed to what you collectively collected with criminalist Fung?
Sustained. I'm going to sustain the Court's own objection under 352. Now, this is too confusing given the state of this particular transcript. It's not clear. The question was not clearly asked. Proceed.
Miss Mazzola, a few moments ago, you testified that you and Dennis Fung together each swatched portions of stains 4, 5 and six; is that correct?
Miss Mazzola, five minutes ago, didn't you say with some degree of certainty that it was items 4, 5 and 6 that Dennis Fung and you did together?
We were both there working. I am not sure exactly if he took swatches from every stain that I did or if he took swatches from one.
I'm not asking you about every stain, Miss Mazzola. I'm simply asking you whether or not you testified before these ladies and gentlemen of the jury just five minutes ago that Dennis Fung and you together each did swatches for stains 4, 5 and 6. Was that your testimony, ma'am?
So you're now saying, Miss Mazzola, that you're not sure which of items 4, 5 and 6 that you both together swatched some of the blood from? Is that your current testimony?
Well, did you not say just a few minutes ago to this jury, Miss Mazzola, that both you and Dennis Fung together each swatched portions of the stain for items 4, 5 and 6?
I'm not sure if I said that both of us took swatches from 4, 5 and 6 or it could have been one or two. I don't remember.
But at least it's your recollection that both you and Dennis Fung took swatches from at least one of those three items; is that correct?
All right. When you testified just this last Thursday before the same jury at this trial, Miss Mazzola, were you asked these questions, did you give these answers?
Were you asked these questions and did you give these answers? "Question: Miss Mazzola, you said a moment ago that you testified this morning on direct examination that it is now your recollection that Mr. Fung and not you collected the drops, items number 4, 5 and 6; is that correct? "Answer: That's correct." Did you give that answer to that question last Thursday?
Overruled. Excuse me, counsel. When other counsel is making an objection, would you at least allow them to finish?
So, Miss Mazzola, on Thursday, you testified that you were not involved in the collection of 4, 5 and 6 and that Dennis Fung collected that; is that correct?
And now today, you have a different recollection of what transpired back on June 13th, 1994? Is that your testimony, ma'am?
And when you testified on August 23rd, 1994, at that point, it was your recollection, was it not, that you had personally collected all the blood drops at Rockingham; is that correct?
Have you looked at any notes to refresh your recollection between Thursday and today that led you to change your mind from Thursday to today's testimony with respect to who collected what on items 4, 5 and 6?
Have you looked at any videotapes to refresh your recollection so that you would change your memory as to who collected what portions of 4, 5 and 6?
Have you looked at any documents to refresh your recollection that you didn't have available to you last Thursday so you could have a different memory as to who collected what with respect to items 4, 5 and 6?
Did you have a conversation with any members of the Prosecution staff between last Thursday and today with regard to who collected items 4, 5 and 6?
Did you have a conversation with Dennis Fung between Thursday and today as to who collected items 4, 5 and 6?
But you now say that it's your recollec--that your recollection has changed your memory of what your involvement was with regard to items 4, 5 and 6 from just this last Thursday to today; is that correct?
And, ma'am, it would be fair to say--I think you said it earlier--that you never wrote down in your notes which of you collected which items; is that right?
And so the only way you can recall or testify as to who collected which items is strictly from your independent recollection; isn't that correct?
Has your memory of who collected which items been aided by the prep sessions that you had with the Prosecutors in this case?
Did the Prosecutors ever tell you that it was important that you give some credit to Dennis Fung for his involvement in this case?
Did they ever tell you that it was important for you to enhance Dennis Fung's involvement in the collection of bloodstain evidence?
In fact, your supervisor, Dennis Fung, didn't even supervise you with respect to the collection of every stain, did he?
He was off collecting other evidence when you collected some of the stains in this case, didn't he?
When you collected a stain on a wire the afternoon of June 13th--excuse me--your supervisor was not there to observe you, was he?
And when you collected items 7 and 8, Dennis Fung was not there to observe you, was he?
Now, at Bundy, ma'am, as opposed to Rockingham, isn't it true that you collected every single drop of blood at Bundy with the sole exception being the stains from the two bloody shoeprints?
Well, ma'am, were you aware of the fact that when you were--on August 23rd, when you were asked about who--which drops you collected, did you understand the question to be directed at what you personally collected as opposed to what you collected in conjunction with Dennis Fung?
Your Honor, I would ask the Court's permission to now read the--page 700 to the witness for that limited purpose.
I'll sustain the same objection because of the manner in which this transcript reads, counsel. It's not a clear question that was put to the witness. Proceed.
I haven't even asked this question and I haven't read this portion of the transcript on cross-examination.
One second, your Honor. Beginning--actually beginning at 734, line 27 and ending on page 736, line 1.
You testified on August 23rd, 1994--were you asked these questions and did you give these answers? "Question: And which--I'm sorry. At Bundy again. At Bundy again, were there certain bloodstains that you collected and other bloodstains that were collected by Mr. Fung? "Answer: Yes. "Question: And which bloodstains were collected by Mr. Fung? "Answer: I believe he collected the red stains that were near the shoeprints that were made on the walkway. "Question: Would you please look at your notes and tell me which numbers those are? "Question: And when you say that, you say he collected the actual foot--shoeprints or he collected alleged drops that were near the shoeprints? "Answer: He if I remember correctly took swatches of the red stains that were constituting the footprint itself. "Question: Can you tell us which ones those were, please? "Answer: Property items 55 and 56. "Question: And that is it? "Answer: Yes. "Question: All other bloodstains at the Bundy crime scene were collected by you, ma'am? "Answer: Yes. "And while he collected 55 and 56, were you collecting some of your bloodstains? "Answer: Yes." Were you asked those questions and did you give those answers under oath on August 23rd, 1994?
And on August 23rd, 1994, ma'am, would you agree that the events of June 13th were fresher in your mind than they are now 10 months later?
Well, would you agree, ma'am, that your memory of an event that happened two months previously is stronger than your memory of an event that happened 10 months previously?
I had not thought of the events of June 13th since we had gotten done with the property reports up until the time I walked into this courtroom for the griffin hearing.
Miss Mazzola, would you agree that your memory of an event that happened two months prior to your testifying is fresher than it is when you've had 10 months gone by?
You didn't do a single other crime scene between June 13th and the date you testified on August 23rd, did you?
Well, Miss Mazzola, are there any other notes that would refresh your recollection as to whether you did?
Well, as you sit here today, ma'am, do you have an independent recollection of doing a single other crime scene between June 13th and August 23rd?
And, Miss Mazzola, when you did this crime scene with Dennis Fung on June 13th, it was an important crime scene to you; was it not?
Well, Miss Mazzola, you said when you were told to come to Court in this case, rather than being told it was the Simpson case, you were simply told by someone it was "The case," correct?
Now, when this person said to you, "It is the case," didn't you know that what she meant was the case of the--of Mr. Simpson here? Didn't you know that?
Miss Mazzola, were you aware that just the previous day, August 22nd, your partner in this crime scene collection, Dennis Fung, was testifying in this courtroom before a national television audience? Were you aware of that?
And, Miss Mazzola, you were relying exclusively on your memory, on your independent recollection when you testified on August 23rd, correct?
Well, Mr. Matheson's notes were the original notes that you and Dennis Fung took on June 13th; isn't that correct?
Well, the notes that--well, were they copies of the notes that you and Dennis Fung took then on June 13th?
And what those notes were the sum total of all the notes that you and Dennis Fung took on June 13th at Bundy and Rockingham; isn't that correct?
And that would constitute the field notes and the crime scene inspection list that this jury has already seen; isn't that correct?
And there are no other notes, are there, that were prepared by you that you've used to refresh your recollection today?
And there were no other notes other than those notes that you relied upon to refresh your recollection when you testified on August 23rd; isn't that correct?
And when you testified on August 23rd, ma'am, isn't it a fact that there was no way--there is no note saying which items you personally collected and which items Dennis Fung personally collected?
And so between August 23rd and today, ma'am, it's not as if you've had additional notes to look at which will help you to remember which items Dennis Fung collected as opposed to which items you collected; isn't that right?
Well, Miss Mazzola, are there any other notes other than your field notes that you got from Mr. Matheson that day that indicate which items you collected and which items Dennis Fung collected?
And there are no notes, ma'am, or reports that were prepared by you that you looked at on August 23rd which indicated which items you collected and which items Dennis Fung collected, correct?
So both today and on August 23rd, you're relying exclusively on your independent recollection as opposed to any documentary evidence to recall which items you collected and which items Dennis Fung collected, correct?
Are you--do you--have you seen a single photograph showing Dennis Fung collecting items 4, 5 or 6?
At the Griffen hearing, I did not have a chance to look at the photographs before.
Ma'am, I'm simply asking you this, please. Have you seen a single photograph between June 13th and this morning or this afternoon that shows Dennis Fung collecting items 4, 5 or 6?
All right. Thank you, counsel. All right. Ladies and gentlemen, we are going to take our recess for the morning session. Please remember all of my admonitions to you; do not discuss the case amongst yourselves, form any opinions about the case, allow anybody to communicate with you or conduct any deliberations until the matter has been submitted to you. Counsel, I'm going to direct you to confer about that one exhibit that Mr. Neufeld was interested in.
If there's any problem, let me know at 1:30. All right. We'll stand in recess. All right. Miss Mazzola, 1:30.
Yes. At the time, I thought that Mr. Fung alone had, yes.
Notes, no... Videos, no... Documents, no... No.
In the driveway, no.
I do not know if they were tested.
To the best of my recollection, I did not.